The M10 Monochrom is Leica's newest dedicated black and white rangefinder camera. Is it a street photographer's dream come true? Chris and Jordan take it to the mean streets of Calgary to find out.
I shoot with a black and white converted camera. The image quality is fantastic. But not much better than my color camera. But the converted camera allows me to shoot raw black and white in real time. For me that is the difference and advantage. And I think that is why the Leica appeals to some.
I seem to be the only one here who is posting any samples to illustrate pros or cons that can be used to illustrate not only the benefit of adjusting colors in post, but the detail and lack of noise that color cameras already provide.
I added two images from the A7RII that show the typical detail and noise one gets at 100% when converting to b/w. (I just took quick screen grabs from C1 at default setting for sharpening, noise correction, etc.)
The first show shows how one can enhance a sunset using the color sliders. So much better when adjusting the colors in the conversion process.
I am happy with the detail and lack of noise. This can at least be a base line for comparison.
Leica topics are always a troll magnet, and usually it starts with the price ("...my iPhone-6 does the same for a fraction of the price...") then it always continues on the bokeh ("...my $85 Rokishine performs better and delivers a superb bokeh...") and then it gets technical: MTF curves, and most of all... dynamic range! Between pros, we say DR, don't we?
At the end of the day, it's always the people who have no clue about Leica who give us the best post on the net.
Maybe they have a clue and many who buy a Leica monochrome don't.
Where"s the proof?
I posted examples that show how much more control you get over an image by converting an RGB file than you can get with a monochrome camera and color filters. (Which require exposue compensation that negates the removal of the Bayer filter for noise reduction.]
So what is left? Theoretical gains in resoltion have not been demonstrated in controlled tests here.
Engineers do spend time to develop a useless product, and crazy people are actually buying this useless product just because they have no clue. Only the people commenting and bashing have a clue :-)))
And a firm like Leica can go on the market and provide technical data that only commenters of DPreview know for a fact being pure BS. Of course these comments are based on a camera they've never seen nor touched, and the comments are based on jpg files posted on a website. Because looking at a jpg on the net (and probably on a phone) is the only way one can evaluate the quality of a photo.
So where does Leica post detailed comparisons of a b/w image made at ISO 1440 through a red filter with this monochrome camera compared to the same image shot at ISO 180 with their similar color camera...converted with just red colors lightened using a color slider? (Not the red channel tone curve.)
If Leica does not prove the superiority of the monochrome approach for specific applications, what basis does one choose from?
Clearly if one is concerned about having control of how colors are reproduced into b/w, adjusting RGB files is superior and the color M cameras are a better choice. Does Leica tell its customers that?
No.. Leica just let you queue with your check book, take reservations one year in advance and stupid customers just wait to be lucky enough to get a delivery. They pay and wish they could pay more. These buyers are bozos, you can spot them with the red dot AND a red nose.
Now there are tons of documentation about the DNG files produced by a Monochrom, and including side by side with the Phase One Achromatic.
Reproducing colors into b/w with some measure of control is what distinguishes more highly skilled photographers from those who don't care.
The catch is when you use filters on a monochrom camera you negate its noise advantage. And even with filters you are working with your hands behind your back compared to converting RGB.
How much additional resolution you may get in a given circimstance is not worth discussing but would be worth illustrating. So where have you done this illusyration? Note that I do illustrate my points.
If one opens the book" Natural Light Photography" by Ansel Adams to page 21 "Film Response and Filters," one will be presented with a fairly comprehensive explanation of why and how to use filters. There are numerous examples of filter tests on an actual scene and on a color chart. And the descriptions of many of the photos in the book show they were made using filters.
Yes a lot of photojournalists, street shooters, and others shoot from the hip and don't use filters. Is that the kind of photography that requires a monochrome camera that costs more than $10,000? (Lens included.)
Well Monochrome and filters must be good for something if NASA does it that way. I don't know how you can question the resolution advantage of monochrome when there are astro enthusiasts scraping the bayer sensor off and then showing before and after photos.
So this is an astrophotography camera? Do you plan to shoot three images through red, green, and blue filters? Did you know that before integral tripack color film was invented "color" cameras existed that simultaneously shot three b/w separation images using beam splitters and color filters?
Do you know that if you use a filter in front of a lens it is worse than in front of the sensor?
Do you know that this is a camera testing site yet they have not shot their standard scenes with this camera?
So while we don't know if there is significant increase in resolution with this, we do know it will not give you the control over interpreting colors of the scene as you get with a color camera. (Adams's previsualiztion concept can now be achieved in post.) That's a fact that would keep me from ever using it.
The color M10 has a base ISO of 100 The Monochrom M10 has a base ISO of 160.
So does the Bayer filter only have a 2/3 stop penalty?
A red filter used on a lens in front of the Monochrome has a 3 stop penalty. Other strongly colored filters have a penalty of 2 or more stops.
If you look at a converted image made using a 40-60MP camera, are you typically displeased by the resolution and noise? How easy is it to get the most resolution out of these high pixel count cameras in typical photography? Lack of IS certainly will limit this camera in lower speed hand held exposures. Plus I don't think it has a vibration free electronic shutter mode. (Not sure.)
And if you are locked down shooting still subjects on a tripod, some cameras have pixel shift for higher resolution.
Um no I'm really not defending the camera here I'm just pointing out its highly likely there is a resolution advantage based on what others have done removing the bayer filter and just plain physics. I'm defintely not suggesting one shoot through coloured filters to make a colour photo with this as that would be redudant and pixels shift in the Sony's would get the same output at a fraction of the cost. Finally yes the bayer filter only removes under just half of the light so the gain is not so great. This has to do with quite wide colour overlap between colours and the fact that there is more green. This is a camera for people with lots of money more akin to a rare whiskey than a scientific instrument although I will give Leica lenses their due as they have superb design.
Why do you say there is "highly likely a resolution adbvantage" when it is easily demonstrated that it exits or does not exist.
The studio comparison tool here on DPReview does not support the claim of increased resolution on the 24MP monochrome sensor, so I don't see how it would be much different with a 40MP monochrome sensor compared with a similar color one.
Yes if people are determined to buy a monochrome camera to shoot b/w photos why should I care if they spend a lot and limit themselves for a theoretical advantage that seems to not be born out by the testing?
One can clearly see the huge resolution advantage between the Sony A7III and the A7RIV from the larger file size. So at least that lens is capable.
Blur on a colour sensor is mainly introduced by two things the AA filter and the demosaicing of the bayer pattern. You can remove the first on a colour sensor but you have to do the second and when you do the value of each pixel will be dependant on the value of neighbouring pixels and therefore there will be a loss of contrast. Sure you can sharpen in post but that introduces its own issues. Look at the wikipeidia page on demosaicing and you'll see the blur introduced by bayer. If it didn't you would have a nifty 3:1 losses compression algorithm. Also on the DPR comparison tool slide the viewer to the concentric circles. Notice how much better the M is?
You really are grasping at straws -- Concentric circles!!! That is the M's forte.
Yes, occasionally there is a moire pattern with color sensors. If you select the 24MP Sony A7III there is very little moire. In all the rest of the areas, the 24MP Monochrom doesn't even outperform a $450 APS Sony. And if you really care about resolution, you can buy a 42MP Sony A7RII for $1400. I have posted b/w 100% crops on my previous links.
Speaking of APS Sony, here is some b/w work I did with the old Nex 6. I don't see why I would need a camera much better than that for b/w reportage/street photos. (I have an a6000 and the only reason to get a newer model for me would be faster AF.)
Well if grasping at straws is showing conclusively better resolution in a particular senario you're not going to be convinced by anything else. Leica's implementation is off as I suspect they're still using a AA filter or have cancelled it with a second one which still has a residual effect. I'm not defending this overpriced status symbol just pointing out that for the reasons stated above a monochrome sensor has a measurable resolution advantage for the same megapixels which is why it is an option in almost all industrial/security/astro camera's.
Biggest takeaway for me is the real point that brayer filtered RAW files are in many ways more flexibly black and white raws. You can adjust contrast per color channel and make your monochrome as a composite yourself. A lot of the grain and resolution increases can be had from combining the colors as well.
So yeah, like you might suspect, don't buy a monochrome sensor.
Also once you increase the ISO 2-3 stops for the filter factor, if using a color filter on the monochrome camera, the noise will increase. Maybe considerably worse than using let's say a Sony A7RIV or lesser sensor and converting.
Since DPReview has not posted a studio comparison test of this monochrome camera, we don't have actual data.
I didn't read all the comments given here so far, so my opinion might not be a singular one, but I think that b/w-photography with a digital camera is rather anachronistic. In times of "30 yrs of Photoshop" it's not understandable for me, why I should miss out the chances I have to take a picture in color and maybe later make a b/w interpretation of it or just keep it in color with all the additional options. I do appreciate (some) images in b/w, but I don't see the point in restricting myself when taking a picture. OMHO
The images presented here don't have that characteristic "glow." Monochrome photography is really a film and paper art form, and digital doesn't quite do it for me.
Nor do video reviews, if I may say so.
Too much of the reviewers personality impinges on what should be a dispassionate evaluation. Besides, the review is temporally sequential. In a written review, you can scan for keywords and skip to and focus on the parts that interest you.
I enjoy the reviewers personality in the video. We are human beings; no review is going to be totally without subjective human factors, no matter how hard anyone tries. May as well just look at a spec sheet then but of course that doesn't tell the whole story either.
We are photographers, and so we value things like art and emotion and passion. Nothing wrong with bringing some of that to a video, or even a written article.
Who wants something without emotion or passion? That's boring.
The key is not to try to eliminate human emotion in reviews; all reviews will always reflect a bit of bias. The key is for us to recognize that and take that into account. We don't have to look to any one review as some sort of edict passed down from god. Reviews are one more bit of information for us, and maybe a bit of entertainment along the way.
My thoughts exactly, these pictures are very dull and uninviting. Nothing like tri-x, hp5+ or delta 100, for that matter. A less lackluster processing would probably help. Both the old Mandelerian “glowy” designs and the new Karbeian designs have their charm IMHO (although also the 50mm 'lux asph has a subtle glow wide open, as does, e.g., the 24mm lux asph), so I don't think it's there the dog is buried.
I haven't seen anyone demonstrate how this camera can produce better b/w interpretations of a scene than a color camera can do.
It basically is the same as simply de saturating a color image and letting the tonal interpretations of colors fall where they may. Yeah, you can use filters, just like with film.
On a side note beyond the tonality of the scene, where are the examples of a resolution improvement or noise improvement to see if even those aspects can be justified in practice beyond theory?
So what improvement to my images do I get for my $8000+? Especially because I would have to make a decision at the time of the shoot to have exclusively a b/w photo. (Something that none of my clients would ever go for. Thus it would be for personal use only.) BTW, 25 or so years ago we stopped shooting jobs using a combination of b/w and color on each shot. All b/w ads were made from scanning the color image.
Look up "interpolation with Bayer sensor generated files".
"It basically is the same as simply de saturating a color image and letting the tonal interpretations of colors fall where they may. "
No, it isn't.
"On a side note beyond the tonality of the scene, where are the examples of a resolution improvement or noise improvement to see if even those aspects can be justified in practice beyond theory?"
There's virtually no noise in the ISO 6400 files. Download the raws before asking such "questions".
"So what improvement to my images do I get for my $8000+? "
Image quality improvements largely come from using optically better lenses; the best lens used in this set of samples is more than 13000usd. And again look into interpolation.
"All b/w ads were made from scanning the color image."
Was the scanner a pure B+W scanner, or was it a 3 colour scanner?
So what improvement to my images do I get for my $8000+? Especially because I would have to make a decision at the time of the shoot to have exclusively a b/w photo. --------------------------- Simple. First, present to client a random photo from the camera with explanation that its tonal character is definitive (due to missing color data). Explain, what WYSIWYG in this case means and why is that beneficial for the client. If he struggles to understand the benefit, go to step 2: confront the already puzzled client with the price you paid for your camera and use the moment of astonishment to quickly close the deal. Done!
"So what improvement to my images do I get for my $8000+?"
Look up "interpolation and RGB sensors".
Of course, you'll need a good Leica M lens to mount on it. The best, there are only 5 currently in production, start around $8,000 and go as high as $14,000.
Right, there are excellent Leica M lenses that are "just" about $5,500.
Your other question:
Show the client the results, that means a very good print on good paper from a tiff file if the end purpose of the job is printed photos.
Think of it this way, you're considered a master cabinet maker, and you've had that status for 20 years, so are sought out by those who want excellent cabinet work, and ten years ago you spent $4000 on six Japanese cabinet chisels: Do you really think a client is going to ask about your chisels? No, he/she is going to ask a bit about finish and woods used. Then look at the results of other projects you've finished.
To be honest... i doubt that any pure b/w camera will be used for client work, or very very seldom... the vast majority of work that clients hire you will be colour photos. (business) Portraits, architecture, fashion, wedding, products, corporate, glamour, food, hotel, marketing in general... even most editorials etc. etc.
This is more a camera for artists or for personal pleasure. Yes, if you are an artist and sell your photos, you have "clients". But they don't hire you. They buy what you have to offer.
I really dislike his style. OK humour me. Watch that video no sound, then one of his FF videos then the Olympus OMD. He has a whining facila expression for the M43, FF he is like a kid in a sweet shop, Leica just like a guy in an S class parking where he likes, smug.. I find his insidious mime and shallow dog-whistle reviews an affront to those photographers and reviewers who know their craft and cameras...
You might have missed the way he treated Canon in past episodes. Every single product of any kind. Totally predictable.
On the crazy web, I have mentally replaced the term “review” with “personally biased brief-term opinion”. I watch or read such pieces for entertainment.
This is the wrong place to talk about Leica and Chris is for sure the wrong guy to test and review them.
This is essentially a camera comparison site. There is no point in comparing a Leica with a regular camera.
Choosing to use a Leica is the same as choosing to play a Gibson guitar or a Tama drum kit. You can’t explain it nor should you be expected to justify it. It just brings you pleasure.
Sure some people buy the same Gibson guitar because they want to be cool. Same with Leica. But there are plenty of humble, simple photographers who choose to use a Leica. Good for them I say.
Everyone knows that for the best Black & White (Monochrome) photography you should use a lens that is designed for only B&W. In 2012 I bought a special Panasonic Lumix Special Limited Edition 20mm f1.7 B&W lens for use on my m4/3 cameras. You mount the lens and the special B&W optics allow only B&W light through to be recorded by the sensor. And those B&W photos are amazing! So different than using your run of the mill, pedestrian Leica, Nikon, Zeiss, Canon, Fuji, Olympus, etc. lenses that allow deleterious color to pass through -- even when mounted on a B&W monochrome body! Once you've used a true B&W lens you just can't go back to shooting B&W with a color lens! Anyway, I recommend that if you take B&W photos you get a very exclusive, specially designed for B&W lens with the special B&W glass! Simply stunning! Of course, if your standards are not that high then any old lens will work for B&W.
I got the Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 Special Limited Edition B&W version with the rare, exquisite glass elements which only allow monochrome light to pass through. The monochrome image has a divine purity unsullied by colored light rays which can reduce the monochrome micro-contrast, cause busy bokeh, and in some cases (depending on tidal forces) can be a catalyst for severe diarrhea in the user. Trust me, when you are out and about in places where toilets are few and far between and taking B&W photos you just don't want sudden onset explosive diarrhea.
Soon after purchasing this Special Limited Edition B&W lens in 2012 it was discontinued. The value, of course, has skyrocketed so I expect to have it buried with me when I die. It's in my will. I wrapped a piece of tape around the barrel so that, hopefully, no one will notice it and mug me. Here in Japan that would normally be almost an impossible event, but for this lens some people are desperate, even in Japan.
I didn't know there was black and also gray light. Can you expand upon such light, and how a lens would filter every other visible colour out?
Ironically, despite your satire, such a lens could exist, but it would be bigger than your extra super special Panasonic--assuming you're using an m4/3 camera.
I'm a Leica shooter too but I can't see how much better using monochrome. I shoot MP240 and Nikon Z raw and am able to mimic monochrome images... maybe not 100% but good enough to justify 7K price tag.
Is that the most stable way to hold a camera when shooting vertically? I get it for big DSLRs hence the battery grips come with shutter buttons "above." Or is it because this Leica is small but heavy because it's built using bullet-proof metal or something?
1. Leica M's hold their value, almost all other cameras drop considerably. You risk little if you keep them in good condition. If you don't, there's a good market for "brassed" M's. 2. Leica M's have a build quality unlike ANYTHING else out there. 3. Boutique/Niche products always cost more. (See #1).
I prefer the handling of the Typ 246, so that's the monochrom I purchased.
They hold their value *better*, but the non-special Leicas do lose value. M9s go for about $2400 now, at 11 years old. The Nikon D800 at 11 years old, I see on ebay as low as $350.
"Holding value" is better argument for Leica lenses. M bodies price drops a lot in absolute dollar terms. An 8K Leica body dropping 20% is a lot more than a 4K Sony body dropping 30% in dollar terms. That being said, one thing unique about Leica M is that old cameras work really well. Even the M9-M works really today, and the 246 is wonderful (just a little bulky like 240). Can't say the same about SL and CL.
it used to hold values but not anymore. See the price of M240 drops like rocks. Was 7k when new, today is 2k. probably be 2k for a very long time thought.
They drop for a while then gain back later. The M8 is gaining value, so is the M9 for example. Fact is, they drop MUCH less than other cameras do, and even sometimes you can gain a profit by selling them later.
Haven't seen a regular digital Leica exceed its purchase price on the used market yet. They haven't dropped in value smoothly, but all of them are worth less than what was paid for them new.
I understand and accept the "unique photographic experience" claim behind this camera. Its weaknesses *for me*: 1/ I can't change the tones of the image in post-processing stage due to missing primary colour data of the objects on the photo. Giving a final "mood" to the final picture can be a part of the creative process. 2/ A soon-to-be-outdated electronics. For me personally, the old mechanical Leica represents the true and „timeless” photographic machine. I plan to buy a Leica MP this year with a couple of small lenses to enjoy the "unique photographic experience" by handling a beautiful, simple and technically “perfect” photographic tool. And, in fifteen years, my children will hopefully play occasionally with the MP again, enjoying its beauty, simplicity and technical perfection (analogue films will be most probably still available). Sure, an electronic Leica monochrome from 2020 would also hold some of its original value in 2035 – being transformed to a stylish paperweight.
Can't help thinking of Miroslava Duma bag, although I had hard time to spell it. This camera belongs to such category ... for decades. More decades to come too. LoL
I cannot figure out how there's still a market for this ?? Get an XPRO2/3 and chill ... There's even a color mode on the fuji! The video looks great btw .. Considering the Leica files: More than superb but then again at that pricepoint why??
Yeah, I get the same way... and the bad part is that I like his videos, but it's just a complete waste of time compared to the amount of information I can absorb in X amount of time by text. Also a waste to pay someone to shoot and edit video, when the information can be disseminated so much quicker and more efficiently. But every time I watch, his manners and meter through the material is perfect. Inefficient.
Is it 3 times better than another camera? Probably not, but that's not the point when it comes to pricing. Leicas pricing is reasonable from their business point of view. It is the price that Leica fans are able and willing to pay. They do not need the mass market to achieve their admired revenue. With that price they need to sell lets say... 1.000 (just a random number as example). If they would price it half the price, then they would maybe need to sell 5.000 for the same marginal return. And it is much much harder to find 5.000 people willing to pay a very high price than 1.000 willing to even pay more.
Furthermore, they position their products marketing wise through that high price (while also being very good products) --> exclusiveness!
The law of diminishing return would indicate that, past certain price tag / performance, every extra buck you put does not translate 1 to 1 on a performance return. You are getting a better camera, definitely... you are just paying a HUGE extra for that 10-20%? improvement.
Well there is expensive and Leica expensive. Even on the remit of a luxury brand I was taken back how much it cost, especially when you consider they have actually removed features.
Not everyone has you level of camera pricing knowledge and it was not mentioned in the video, so it is worth pointing out and has to be taken into account when evaluating the camera
@Willgo is correct: expensive is just another way of saying it costs a lot of money, and both are subjective terms, relative to one's financial situation.
To someone like, say Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, as extreme examples, this camera is not a lot of money.
But let's admit that to most on this forum and to most people, this camera is expensive. But let's also realize that people spend more money on other types of hobbies and pursuits. How many buy into the Harley Davidson culture? How many spend money on a car hobby? Even something like fishing can be expensive, if someone buys an expensive boat. And that brings up boating...even owning jet ski's.
So there are many middle class and upper middle class people who spend more money on other hobbies.
The entire point of b/w photography is to interpret colors as abstract shades of grey plus white and black.
So why would anyone want to use a method that limits you to using crude color restricting filters in front of a lens to achieve that, when a far better method exists?
It is not a unique experience. Leicas are just the same photographic experience as every camera I have used. The camera is a means and not an end.
Crippling one's ability to interpret tones into b/w is a ridiculous thing for anyone to want to do if they care about having control over the look of an image...which is the point of making a black and white interpretation of a scene.
Digital photography's ability to have better ways to interpret colors into b/w is the biggest improvement in b/w photography since panchromatic film was invented. This is like making a fine b/w print in a darkroom times 10. It is sad to me that so few photographers seem to get this.
I think most cameras that have evfs can preview in b/w when recording a raw color file.
When you write "the camera is a means not an end" you prove that you miss the point.
Some will see a tool that way: as a means to an end. Nothing wrong with that.
But others see a tool as a potential source of joy itself, offering a unique experience. I know a few people who really know their power tools, or their carpentry tools, or the tools they use to work on a car. They love using certain brands, in part for the joy of the experience of using such fine tools.
Look at a car. One can argue that it's all just a tool for transportation, and for some that's true. But others admire cars as ends to themselves, and come to value certain brands and models.
Clothes are just a covering for some, but for others a whole world of delight. One could go on and on.
Using a Leica is a unique experience for some. You don't have to feel the same way, but please understand that your point of view is not universal or better.
I don't care if it is a Leica or a Zorki. A monochrome camera is the worst way to make b/w images. A color Leica would be fine if you like using it.
Likewise, orthochromatic film was not very popular once panchromatic film became available. (You could shoot pan film through a blue filter if you wanted the ortho look.)
I own a M10-P and understand AlanG's point. I like B&W, but manipulate the color data from my M10-P in getting to the black and white I want.
You can use old school color filters to do that with the M10-Monochrom - but I have to believe that this more than negates the ISO advantage it has by not having its Bayer filter array.
I guess the M10-Monochrom still has more megapixels than my M10-P. But sooner or later they'll come out with the M10-R or whatever they want to call it that solves for this.
Unless this is an M10-D play, where having less somehow allows you to create more. Fine, I get it. That's why I own an M10-P not M10-D.
But to Alan's point, it's not like any M has an EVF, and I believe you can set your LCD on the camera to show only B&W, and ditto when importing files at home.
At the end of the day, as long as someone buys this and it makes business sense (like those crazy expensive limited editions), I don't care. As long as it helps them get to that M10-R.
A monochrome sensor has better sensitivity - no filter arrays. It will have slightly better final resolution because it doesn't need debayering. And if you use color filters you do not cut into the dynamic range / resolution of the sensor - with RGB sensors and filtering the red afterwards you disable all the data of a quarter of your pixels which will be filled by algorithms, not data!
But as someone who likes to have "univeral cameras" I would not use a monochrome camera on a regular base and I use a set of 3 (cheap) (different) cameras and 3 (not so cheap) lenses as standard package: No lens change hassle/speed, redundancy. And all have sensors of them have very similar properties - I wouldn't spoil that concept with one exotic body!
So generally I see this camera well suited for those with special ambitions (b/w portrait solely, low light) and for hipsters (do they still exist?).
You do not "filter" out the red for instance in post. You can adjust any color lighter or darker before conversion without affecting the overall image as one does when using filters.
Clearly at the heart of this is a lack of understanding of how empowering it is to use color sliders and other tools in post when converting. So if one is so enthralled with b/w photography to spend a huge sum on a monochrome camera, you would think they'd at least be willing to learn how to have the most control over tonal reproduction. Afterall, that is the most important thing.
AlanG, you're stating your opinion as fact. You're missing the point that others tried to make: a change in the tool will change the approach of the user. The notion that, "A monochrome camera is the worst way to make b/w images," denies the entire history of photography, and the work artists have created when shooting B&W only.
If you shoot the same using a color digital camera as you would with a film camera loaded with Tri-X, that says more about your mindset than it does about the tools.
If, however, you would approach the shooting experience differently, and have it affect the things you look to capture, then you should be able to understand why a monochrome digital camera could be worthwhile.
You review the shots made with your monochrome camera and wish you could see tone differences of red and green objects. But there's nothing you can do about it.
That's so... so... silly. The assumptions you make to say that, they're wrong on the surface, and they get more wrong and more blinkered the more you think about them.
So you naysayers... do you have extensive experience using the color controls I've illustrated in C1 or other programs to adjust a color image when converting to b/w?
If so, where are your samples that show some kind of deficiencies of process? If not, why are you knocking it?
I posted my examples that I feel illustrate how this process is a huge game changer for b/w photography.
BTW, my comments have absolutely nothing to do with using or not using a Leica M camera. So let's not go there please.
Friend, I've been using PS since 2.5, and have used nigh every photo manipulation app out there. You're too proud of yourself for discovering the Black & White tool in C1 (which is super similar to Alt+Shift+Ctrl+B in PS, the first few palettes in the Develop module of LR, the B&W Adjustment in Affinity, B&W Filter in On1, etc...)
Congratulations, you've discovered a tool requested by thousands of photographers, and implemented dozens of times. No one cares. You still miss the point.
A limited tool changes how you capture, what you capture, what choices you make. You will make different art, and become a different, more experienced artist. You will look at things in a new way, and that will improve you, and thus your work.
I read your bio on your website, you should be able to see this. There is no "best" way to make art, there's just art. If you're not challenging yourself, then you're just following mental recipes, and treading water.
The biggest improvements in my photography took place when I started to shoot manually, and then again when I went back to shooting film. The tool and the process will affect your choices and output. You perception of risk and opportunity changes. You will take different images to fit with the limits of what your tools will output. So your, "You can't adjust the values of colored objects!" complaint is meaningless to me.
@hteasley, surely this conversation has run past all usefulness. I don't think anyone wants to explore my background in photography or my philosophy. And how you learned to improve your photography is not relevant to me.
This is a camera review site. What would be beneficial would be a comprehensive test that compares the results that are possible from this monochrome camera to those from the similar M that produces color files that are then converted.
Without such testing, I don't see how anyone can talk authoritatively that there is any reason to use the monochrome camera for any specific purpose.
Are you going to post examples that demonstrate why using a monochrome M has any advantage over using the similar M that shoots color and converting to b/w?
I posted examples to illustrate my point and so far nobody has demonstrated that converting from RGB with the various controls that affords is inferior to just being stuck with the tonal values the monochrome camera gives you.
Seriously this is a specialist camera - and I am no specialist shooter - beside I left B&W behind since 1970 when I was too poor to shot color - and not intend to revisit that road.
For less money than the Leica camera body, get yourself a Fuji GFX50R/S and a couple of GF glass, and you will never have to shoot Leica again. Oh and better image output as well, and you will have some extra cash for some date nights ;)
You can't go wrong with either system; both the Leica and Fuji GFX are fantastic, just different.
The key to understanding Leica is that it's largely about the experience of using it. Leica build quality is unparalleled; hold one and you will see. And their operation is the essence of simplicity. Of course their glass is amazing too.
So with Leica you have a unique user experience and a pride of ownership.
Some Leica apologists are deluded, of course: there's nothing particularly unique in the way a Leica records an image that can't be reasonably mimicked by other cameras.
But, to my ears, Leica haters reveal a certain lack of understanding about creation. The act of taking the photo is affected by your tools. Just as painting with acrylics affects how you go about creation, as opposed to painting with oils, shooting a rangefinder or shooting in black & white affects how you take photos.
If you can't understand how the imposition of limits can unleash creativity, then you don't get it. And you sound silly in showing you don't get it. I don't get improvisational jazz, but I'm smart enough to know there is something to get, and I leave it to those that do to talk about it.
I agree Fuji GFX rendering is much better than Leica M too bad they don't make full optical RF. I also agree Leica's RF is addictive to use. Probably get both?
Leica is all about the rangefinder, many Leica shooters don't even like the LCD. For the same reason MD is quite popular. I shoot Leica for few years now and still not confident enough to use MD yet.
I used to watch the Camera Store videos. They were always great. I have to say, I think I am enjoying these guys now more that ever though. They give it to you straight and and make it fun.
Ironically, after watching this one, all I can think about is an X-T4. Thanks to everyone who voted for this to be shot on an X-T3. It looked incredible, and correct me if I am wrong, but that was mostly SOOC. While the GH5 may still be king of the hill for any hybrid camera under $3500, I am looking at the X-T3 or X-T4.
Can't afford this Leica, though it would be a very fun camera for so many uses. I would love to take one to all the National Parks. KIng's Canyon with all the Sequoias is next on my list.
Finally, after such a long time, the X-T3 being used as video gear here. :-)
Typical Chris Niccolls, no 35/F2 or 35/F1.4 Lens Samples here with the M10 monochrom. I'd love to own a monochrom Series Leica, but it's that out of my League...so i do use quite cheaper gear. :-)
The most obvious thing which I can say is that the video shows Acros simulation of Leica M10 Monochrom black and white output. Other than that, I imagine you'd be interested if you could get a better image output than is possible with a high end Sony or DSLR that involved converting to B & W.
Cool to see a review in b&w and good points about color rgb -> black and white in post vs black and white to post. I too think IBIS would be a worthwhile addition and don't quite understand how forcing the ISOs instead is "fun".
The new feature, called Perspective Control, ’helps to achieve straighter vertical lines and a straight horizon, ensuring a natural image effect – specifically in architectural images,’ according to Leica.
The Leica M10 Monochrom uses a 41MP full-frame sensor, with no color filter array, making it capable of producing stunning black and white images. Have a look at our samples.
It's tempting to scoff at a black-and-white-only digital rangefinder, but there are a few reasons why going without a color filter is more than a gimmick. Here's why we're excited to go shooting with the M10 Monochrom.
Leica has introduced its latest dedicated black and white camera, the M10 Monochrom. Based largely on the M10-P, it features a newly designed 40MP sensor, touchscreen LCD and lower base ISO than previous mono models.
DxO has just released PureRaw, a simple, standalone program that can automatically apply its high-quality lens corrections and impressive noise-reduction algorithms to your Raw files, and then pass those Raw files off to your favorite editing app. We're pretty impressed by it – find out why in our review.
The Fujifilm Fujinon XF 70-300mm F4-5.6 R LM OIS WR is a very versatile, compact telephoto zoom lens. But how does it perform? Read our review to find out.
The X-E4 is going to make a lot of photographers happy, especially those craving a near-pocket-size X-mount body with Fujifilm's latest IQ performance.
In our latest software shootout, we pit Adobe's Camera Raw against Capture One Express Fujifilm, included for free with every Fujifilm camera. Can you get all you need with the free option? For a lot of people, it looks like the answer could be yes.
The Pentax K-3 Mark III is that rarest of things: a completely new DSLR. We've got hands-on with the camera to find out just what's changed in the six years since the Mark II. The answer is: almost everything.
If you want a camera that you can pick up and use without having to page through the manual first, then this guide is for you. We've selected seven cameras ranging from compacts to full-frame, all of which are easy to operate.
Family moments are precious and sometimes you want to capture that time spent with friends or loved-ones in better quality than your phone can manage. We've selected a group of cameras that are easy to keep with you, and that can adapt to take photos wherever and whenever something memorable happens.
If you're looking for a high-quality camera, you don't need to spend a ton of cash, nor do you need to buy the latest and greatest new product on the market. In our latest buying guide we've selected some cameras that might be a bit older but still offer a lot of bang for the buck.
Although a lot of people only upload images to Instagram from their smartphones, the app is much more than just a mobile photography platform. In this guide we've chosen a selection of cameras that make it easy to shoot compelling lifestyle images, ideal for sharing on social media.
Whether you make a living out of taking professional portraits, or are the weekend warrior who knows their way around flashes and reflectors, you'll want a camera with high resolution, exceptional autofocus and a good selection of portrait prime lenses. Click through to see our picks.
The winners of the Professional, Open, Student and Youth categories of the Sony World Photography Awards have been announced, showing some exceptional projects and single images.
Canon has announced two new telephoto prime lenses for the RF mount: the RF 400mm F2.8L IS USM and 600mm F4L IS USM. Click through for a closer look at these two new telephoto options for RF.
From the stately twin-lens reflex to the timeless view camera, here are some of the less common film camera types still kicking around on the used market.
Micro Four Thirds users can now enjoy the Speedmaster 35mm F0.95 Mark II manual lens that was previously limited to Canon EF-M, Fujifilm X and Sony E mount camera systems.
Hasselblad Masters contest opens to professional photographers, with a dozen medium format mirrorless cameras up for grabs. And you don't need to shoot on a 'blad to enter!
Fujifilm's latest prime, the XF 18mm F1.4 R LM WR, is a solidly built lens that we've really enjoyed shooting with. It's also a big departure from Fujifilm's previous 18mm F2 prime lens – get a sense of how it handles right here.
The new Fujifilm XF 18mm F1.4 R LM WR provides a 27mm-equivalent focal length for Fujifilm's X-mount cameras. Find out why Chris and Jordan like this fast, sharp 18mm lens.
We've been shooting with a pre-production copy of Fujifilm's new XF 18mm F1.4 R LM WR lens for a few days, which offers a 27mm full-frame equivalent field of view, and optically, we're impressed.
Fujifilm has announced its lightweight (370g/13oz) XF 18mm F1.4 R LM WR wide-angle prime. This 27mm-equivalent lens offers numerous special elements and a linear focus motor, and is also weather-sealed.
DxO has just released PureRaw, a simple, standalone program that can automatically apply its high-quality lens corrections and impressive noise-reduction algorithms to your Raw files, and then pass those Raw files off to your favorite editing app. We're pretty impressed by it – find out why in our review.
Canon has just announced a native RF-mount contemporary to its popular EF 100mm F2.8L Macro lens. The RF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM is an all-new design, and we've been digging into its feature set. Click through to learn more.
Sony's Xperia 1 and 5 Mark III smartphones introduce a variable 70-105mm telephoto optic, 120Hz OLED displays, and are the first cameras ever to shoot 20 fps with temporal noise reduction. Read on for an in-depth look.
Canon has just announced the development of what will be the highest-speed RF-mount camera yet, the EOS R3. It looks like a really interesting camera, but the R3 also points toward something else coming in the future; something even more capable. Here's what we know.
In today's episode of DPReview TV, Chris and Jordan answer the question everyone is asking: what do they think about Canon's EOS R3 development announcement?
Canon's new RF 100mm F2.8L IS USM offers a minimum focus distance of 26cm (10"), up to 8 stops of shake reduction, and the ability to adjust bokeh and softness by turning its 'spherical aberration' dial.
Canon has announced two new super-telephoto primes for RF-mount: the 400mm F2.8L IS USM and 600mm F4L IS USM. Both lenses share the same optics as their EF-mount counterparts, and will arrive in July priced at $12,000 and $13,000, respectively.
Canon has announced that it is developing the EOS R3, a high-end full-frame mirrorless camera. It will feature a Stacked CMOS Dual Pixel sensor and be able to shoot at up to 30 fps.
Adobe's latest addition to Camera Raw is a Super Resolution feature, which quadruples the pixel count of your Raw files and, in theory, doubles their linear resolution. Does that mean that you really don't need more than 12 or 16 megapixels anymore? We've put it to the test.
Tokina's atx-m 33mm F1.4 X is an affordable fast prime for Fujifilm's X-mount cameras that offers autofocus and solid image quality. Check out what it can do and our impressions of its image quality right here.
Following complaints in the U.K. and oversight from the Advertising Standards Authority, Apple has adjusted its Pro Display XDR marketing material in the UK, removing a claim about HDR performance and adjusting its materials regarding color space.
The three-axis pocket camera can record 4K video at up to 60 frames per second and features a 2.45" articulating screen for composing and reviewing images.
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