DPReview TV: The five best handling digital cameras of all time

Forgot that I have the Nikonos V. One hell of a camera sadly film......I rate that one as the best film camera.

I never shot a D750. But I am extremely pleased with the D500 ergonomics. It is just so easy to make the camera do what you want it to. It's the best camera I've ever used at getting out of the way and letting me shoot.

The D7100 (which I also used) was good, but not quite as good.

No one is "enforcing a singular viewpoint" on anyone. These are reviews...and the opinions of reviewers. One is free to take them as they will.

When I read reviews of books, movies, songs, etc...I am reading someone's opinion. I've seen/read a bit of car reviews and always the reviewer expresses some opinion. That doesn't mean it lacks value.

Much of human life is in the "subjective." Reviewers shouldn't run away from it.

In fact to me the value of a review is in getting the perspective of an experienced individual on the subjective matter. I don't need a reviewer to recite tech specs to me that I can look up.

I in no way feel obligated to take the opinion of the reviewer, but done properly it's interesting in an of itself and it helps broaden my perspective.

Even if one doesn't agree with all of Chris' conclusions, at least he has got people thinking about ergonomics and handling. That to me is a good thing.

Dino bring more women if the ratio is so much bothering you.

No one stopped women from using camera and visiting this website.

Dpr is very neutral site to the point that it never bothered anyone so far. If it is bothering you then by all means bring more women here.

Camera handling, ease of use, and ergonomics are at least as important as tech specs and arguably moreso when all cameras are as technically competent as they are these days.

You will get better results out of a camera that you find easier to use, not to mention use it more, not to mention enjoy it more.

IMHO there is already too much emphasis on tech specs to the extent that we end up debating very small differences on the margin.

It’s nice to see the human factors discussed.

Totally agree about the importance of ergonomics, however, when it comes to the small details, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Ergonomics is a technical field in its own right and camera manufacturers obviously pay close attention to the subject, but when I hear someone say, "I like/don't like the grip" it's a meaningless comment to me. I won't know if that camera grip works for me or not until actually I pick up the camera.

A perfect example is my detestation for those fiddly little plastic dials for adjusting aperture and shutter speed. Hate them, hate them, hate them - except on a point & shoot camera, then I don't mind them at all. Imagine me producing a camera video trashing little plastic dials (except on a P&S camera) when most of the pros in the world have no problems with them. It would be a stupid, pointless video. Opinions only have value when backed up by facts.

Pray tell what are the facts that back up your opinion?

"Totally agree about the importance of ergonomics, however, when it comes to the small details, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another."

So what's wrong with opening up a discussion on this? Why avoid it simply because it's more difficult to wrestle with? And as noted, Chris backs up his opinions with his reasons why.

To me it's better than yet another argument on a small advantage in DR or noise control that one cannot even see. There was a recent article on the test scene for the Z9, and the comparison tool. What was funny was when comparing various cameras at the same setting, there was such tiny difference in output that different people perceived differently as to which one was better.

Then there were the debates as to which cameras to compare, and which parameters.

So even something that would seem "objective" was anything but, and did not reveal much.

It’s pretty clear this was about filling space.

John Sevigney, I disagree, I'm arguably shooting the most ergonomic mirrorless camera ever made by Sony. It's sensor tech is 8 years old and it's due for replacement in the next few years. The image quality is still competitive, but any further investment in Sony will be a backwards step in comfort, button placement and overall usability.

Image quality became good enough in the last 6 years, every camera made produces great images (even the SLR's). For stills shooters Autofocus and Ergonomics are the biggest differences outside of the DPR bubble of "Tech Specialists".

Im agreeing with TRU here, Button's, wheels, grips and menu's make more difference than 1/3 of a stop of noise control or 20% more pixels.

zxaar, what a joke comment… I’ll give you one more attempt to show some maturity.

R5 is great to handle, I have no problems with the RF 70-200/2.8. The biggest issue is the mode switch and changing between photo and video mode. Those multi finger, multi step operation are slow and take my attention away from the action. Who though press-scroll-press is reasonable way to change modes instead or simply rotating one dial?

jnd the R5 has a seperate video record button on top that records video instantly. No need to change picture mode to video.

“No need to change picture mode to video.”

Which camera needs to change picture mode to video?

The ergonomically great canon camera takes 9 seconds to change from photo to video mode.

Now this is something tru can objectively say is a bad thing but he won't because - canon.

I speaking of the Canon R5 not the R5c.

@zxaar: you cite a data point for the R5C, which is not the R5, which is the camera being discussed. If you read the comments it's pretty clear that the R5 is the model being discussed. In fact as people here are talking about their experience using the R5, it has to be that model as the R5C has yet to ship in most parts of the world.

Is that an error on your part?

@TRU

next time when you guys mention that canon has great ergnomics do mention which models you are talking about because here you are suggesting that the great ergnomics applies to one particular model and the mention of other canon models is not okay.

Only thing we have proven here is that canon in general DOES not have great ergnomics. Its that some people prefer certain models that it.

"I speaking of the Canon R5 not the R5c."

Don't care. The comment was about canon cameras that some of you try to pass having great ergnomics while ignoring gaffes such as need to switch the menus that take 9 to 10 seconds.

To zxaar: Not true, it is very easy to customise the Mfn button right behind the shutter to switch between still and video, and it is instantaneous. Why are you so eager to knock something you know nothing about?

@zxaar: the R5 came up in this thread because the OP mentioned it, presumably because Chris mentioned it in his video.

Don't try to weasel out of your mistake confusing the R5C with the R5. That's a big error, unless it was your attempt to add confusion to the discussion.

And yes, overall Canon does have among the best ergonomics and handling. They have superb body styles with great grips, their menu's are great, etc.

As for the R5C, it's a very innovative design with that dual boot mode for stills/video, that actually allows for a true video set of controls. For those primarily into video, it's a dream. Canon is continuing to innovate with its user design. You'll love the design when Sony copies it.

But for the video Chris was citing specific models and for Canon it was the R5. And we know that Sony camera industrial design is poor by comparison.

I cannot say you are wrong man. LOL.

I used to use a 5DII and many times unintentionally turned the rear scroll wheel. Yes there is a switch on the back to disable it....but then you forget you turned that switch on and nothing happens when you intentionally try to use the scroll wheel. I respect Canon, but in my experience, the rear scroll wheel was terrible.

I've always liked the way Nikons felt in my hand and prefer their button layout, but I also owned a Canon 5D for several years (when I was thinking of transitioning to Canon), and I have to agree that the scroll wheel was fantastic. Right now, the D3 and the D750 have been my favorite bodies ergonomically. The Z6ii is okay, but it has some odd button placement that I'm still getting used to.

@wcan
exactly the same, said this many years ago here on DPR, often. I hated the rear wheel "thumbwheel" for exact the same reasons, and prefer a simply 2nd dial on the back. I boughtthe EOS 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D & 5D into it's day, and besides the 50D, i still own all. Can't say i like the thumbwheel, but i arranged myself with it. Even though, i still prefer an ordinary dial there.

Good Light.

Very hard to argue with that. I’ve only handled Canons a few times but they feel great - and have for years. But this site hates Canon.

@John
This site doesn't hate Canon - there are only too many Sony Fanboys here, you see it in almost every thread, when it's being bashed against Canon, and (especially) against Nikon, Pentax & Fujifilm, from Sony Fans. Somehow, these guys feel insecure, and feel the need to behave that way.

I've used all my life almost every brand, and whileas i have from brand xyz here & there fave gear, every brand does have it's ups & downs. So that bashing from the Sony Fanboys really is silly, real photographers don't do that. And i have various Sony cameras also, even though these aren't my fave ones from ergonomics, haptics and menues, but the Sensor is good.

Brand wars, especially on a gear site, are premature, simply as that. Said this many times. Everyone does have different needs, taste, etc. But some guys don't understood that, they try to play missionaire, and tell all folks that they have to use Sony, which is more than stupid...because everyone is being different.

Peace. Good Light.

Why a rant about brand wars in thread where there were no brand wars? Can't we have discussion without that for five minutes?

Average Light.

I for one welcomed the return of the scroll wheel on my R5. The less said about the touch bar on the R, the better…

Absolutely....LUMIX / Panasonic also in the running particularly with their lens range plus SIGMA and LEICA. For me its follow the star lenses and their prices. All these companies pushing-up their prices. Pixel-mania?

Sony menu's for the win? you must be some kind of masochist, and Olympus were doing the equivalent of the Sony FN 'benchmark' menu back in the early 2000's, Fuji's implementation of it is far superior.

Prefer my SONY A7RIII menu compared to Fuji X-T3 menu. A matter of opinion. Example ERASE OK? continual so easy to erase next image. Shutter Sound only changeable on Shutter Type ES setting. Too much scrolling.

Looking for the option you want in the Sony menu is like looking for a particular coin in a bag of coins. You can put the shutter changes in the Q menu, a press and a scroll, that's all it takes, when I'm looking for an option in the Sony menu I put the kettle on first.

Again for me the issue isnt so much who's menu system is better so much as which cameras are designed to avoid needing to use the menu at all.

Abs…

“You can put the shutter changes in the Q menu, a press and a scroll, that's all it takes,”

Sony has a fully customizable menu too. Why don’t you do the same?

Thats what i love about my 5d3, i almost never have to go in to the menu (altiough its intuttiv) cause all i need is one button and a scroll away dont have to take my eye from the viewfinder…..but then again its a dinosaure not much to change 😃

I agree. The fn menu on the Sony is also very quick to change the most common settings and fully customizable. So between that, custom menus, recall custom hold capability, and the customizable mode dial you really have all the configuration options you could possibly want to keep you from having to menu dive.

@MikeRan, just a few pointers, you don't get as many options, the icons are nonsensical, it doesn't work as well as the Fuji Q menu, and last, but by no means least, you have to wade through pages of badly organised menus to even find the option to change it, that's literally the point. The Sony menu system is a mess, but don't take my word for it, ask the legion of other people complaining about it, including reviewers.

" The Sony menu system is a mess, but don't take my word for it, ask the legion of other people complaining about it, including reviewers."

the reviewers are not sony users. Both the reviewers do not use sony.

I use sony and i am happy with the menu. How many sony users on this site have problems with the menu.

also once customized why would you be going through pages and pages of menu?

PS: Basically its again canon and nikon users lamenting that other brands camera do not handle like their canon and nikon.

I was talking about reviewers in general, not specifically on here, and they do cite it, regularly. I appreciate this sample size of two but that doesn't really address the point does it. It's a common complaint against Sony cameras, two of you being happy with it doesn't change that.

What part of being only one button press away from every function you need is a problem for you?

The same part that 'Not all bases are covered and there are not enough options of confusing icons' is a problem for you apparently. I'm not sure which part of 'I'm making the same criticisms as legions of others about Sony menus' you're failing to understand? Are you such a Sony fan that you cannot accept that many people complain about their confusing illogical menu system?

Abs I agree it takes time to go through the Sony menu to add the items you’re interested in to your custom menu. And the dB icons are pretty easy to follow. While there may be a few that you have to remember what they mean most of them are self explanatory.

No doubt the Sony menu system is complex especially for a camera like the A1 as it’s one of the most advanced cameras on the market. If you expect to have everything customized 15 minutes after you open the box well then yes you will be disappointed. But if you’re not interested in understanding all of the features of the $6500 camera you just bought And not interested in investing some time to customize it then the problem is with you, not the camera.

Incidentally I recently recommended a friend of mine purchase an R6. She’s happy with the camera of course but she is constantly asking me how to change stuff (of course I don’t know because I don’t know the canon menu.). Anyway it’s all what you’re used to.

One reason most Sony menus are confusing us because there's more functionality. That's a good thing.

Yesterday I sold and bought another 7R4 and had to change only a few items in my FN menu, then I re-set all custom buttons and left the rest standard. It took 5-10 minutes and will stay like that for 3+ years.

There are about 24 functions in the FN menu, 3-4 custom buttons and another half dozen customisable buttons.

So, after the initial 5-10 minute setup, you're left with about 30-40 customisable buttons of which work are organisable for video or stills modes and that's not mentioning the U memory recall set switches which make things easier again.

I shoot 3 brands every week, Sony every day and have been a working pro full time since the 80's so whilst this is the opinion of a single person, it's the opinion of a very experienced expert by definition with no loyalty to any brand and a good deal of experience with multiple systems.

I'm not saying I'm right, but to say Sony have bad menus is absolutely, objectively wrong.

Sony menu's, including the revamped one, are a mess compared to the others. It's harder to find what you want. It looks more cramped and cluttered the way the text items are displayed. The touchscreen doesn't even seem as responsive as others.

With Canon the sections are big and responsive to the touch.

Sony seems as if their menu system is an afterthought.

And yes, while not unanimous, there is a large consensus among users and reviewers, even many reviewers very favorable to Sony, that the Sony menu systems are among the worst.

The best way to rate a cameras menu is to let non users try it out not people that are used to it and/or never tried anything else. Most people would say both Sony ans Olympus are not good at all while canons are intuitiv and easy to understand

@Johans81
"The best way to rate a cameras menu is to let non users try it out not people that are used to it and/or never tried anything else. "
That might be true for lower end products. I would argue that the more the camera is flexible and configurable the better it is for the more advanced users. That generally adds complexity and it will not be in line with your metrics.

lol, dude, nice try.