Sigma 45mm F2.8 DG DN Contemporary gallery updated

You can't really expect first lenses for any new mount to be pancake lenses just so select few could take some street photos. I'd like to have one too, but reality is something different entirely.

1 month agopermalink

The Sony 35/2.8 came out within two years of the first A7 body and this Sigma 45/2.8 is coming out within 6 months of the broadening of the L mount alliance... I guess expectations can change. All primes are niche sellers compared to any zoom, dunno what makes a slightly slower one such an inconceivable notion for a nascent system.

1 month agopermalink

@impulses, you are wrong about Sigma. It's not the same thing. They didn't start from the beginning, they already had their F and EF mount lenses which they turned into E mount and now L mount lenses.

1 month agopermalink

Richard Butler

This lens is a new design. It wouldn't work on DSLRs.

Note that the Olympus 17mm F2.8 and Panasonic 20mm F1.7 were two of the first lenses for the Micro Four Thirds system.

1 month agopermalink

QuietOC

The Sony E 16 F2.8 pancake was one of initial E-mount lenses and available as a kit lens for the first NEX cameras.

1 month agopermalink

Richard Butler

That's true. It's interesting that one of those three lenses is still much-loved, while the other two...

1 month agopermalink

Can't speak for the Sony but I think there's good reasons the Oly 17/2.8 went the way of the dodo (actually discontinued AFAIK), it had a pretty bad reputation for IQ/CA and IIRC it used unit focus like the Pana 20/1.7 even tho it was slower...

It was probably overshadowed by yet another Pana pancake too - the Pana 14/2.5 came out a year or two after those two, I thought that one was always kinda underrated but at least it's not discontinued! (seemed to be for a good chunk of last year but I see it's back in stock now) Popular kit lens at one point.

I'd love to see Pana trying to make small lenses for L mount, they excelled at it on M4/3 even compared to Oly who had more of a legacy.

1 month agopermalink

" @impulses, you are wrong about Sigma. " -Sacred

As stated already, this is an all new design, their older E mount f2.8 prime trio (which *were* all new designs for mirrorless, along with the newer f1.4 trio) only covered an APS-C sensor and none were 45mm... Not sure how you'd get this or any of Sigma's other lenses mixed up tbh, there's literally no other 45mm in their current lineup.

If you thought they hadn't made any native mirrorless lenses at all you should take a better look, this isn't even the first native FF they've made (close tho). It's definitely more of a gamble for Sigma but I'm glad they're working on native glass too.

1 month agopermalink

Canon had some pretty solid EF & EF-S f2.8 pancakes btw (40 & 24mm), the 35/1.8 macro is small-ish compared to a lot of the new glass for other FF ML mounts (unit focus IIRC tho)... There was also the SL1/2, and EF-M has some nice small options. Saying Canon doesn't think along those lines is a little unfair IMO.

I'd be curious to see what else they come out with for RF mount that's truly small, I'm hardly a fan of Canon but they're still showing far more interest in portability than Nikon has in a while... ('sup Nikon 1?)

1 month agopermalink

marc petzold

I own the 40/2.8 STM, nice little performer onto my 5D, it resolves the 12 MP completely, but not onto higher MP Sensors, for instance newer 5D, or 6D Generations.

Its not being compare-able with the 45/2.8 ART Lens, this is especially for DSLMs, an all-new Design, and the Optics is being tuned to be somewhat soft, analogue Rendering when shooting fully open, but being sharpening nicely when closing the Aperture, by design.

It does feature an Aperture Dial - which is very lovely, and i do appreciate this very much, coming from analogue SLR world, this is as fast and ordinary, as your daily coffee. ;)

Onto my A7, the Samyang 35/2.8 FE AF is my go-to Lens with AF, otherwise, only MF Lenses here. It gives 95% of the Sony Zeiss FE 35/2.8 IQ, for 1/3 of the price.

Good Light.

1 month agopermalink

@marc petzold
"it resolves the 12 MP completely, but not onto higher MP Sensors, for instance newer 5D, or 6D Generations"
- Well, you cannot get full 20mp 6D resolution even out of the 35L'II mounted on it. But the 40STM pancake can do more than 20mp on the 5DsR, trust me. It just doesn't work the way you think it does. Lenses do not cap the resolution.

4 weeks agopermalink

marc petzold

I know. But it can't for instance resolve 20 MP. Check DxO Mark. Or IMA Test Results. 5DsR....is too much MP, too limiting DR, into a 5D Series Body for my taste.

It's a good Lens - nothing more, nothing less. Personally, i dislike the plasticky built, missing aperture ring (like all EF Lenses). (well, i like metal barrel lenses from the 70-80's with both of these features - not clinical correct rendering, but with character)

4 weeks agopermalink

Not that I trust DxO scores much, but, OK, I've checked:
35L'II on 5D4 scores 24p-mp
35F1.4 Distagon on A7R scores 23p-mp
35F2.8 Sonnar on A7R scores 22p-mp
40STM on 5D4 scores 22p-mp
I see no problem with that at all. It's a great little lens :). I use it all the time for stitching landscapes. It is plenty sharp. I mean, I can count blades of grass in those images.

4 weeks agopermalink

I never said it's dslr lens or that it's not new desing. It's easy to desing and play with new designs when you already made every major and most common prime lens, like they did for f and ef mount and now turnes them e and l mount. m4/3 is all about size and convenience so it's logical to make pancake lenses. Not so with Z and R mount. Canikon will have pancake lenses too, just not now.

4 weeks agopermalink

" It's easy to desing and play with new designs when you already made every major and most common prime lens, like they did for f and ef mount and now turnes them e and l mount. "

You're drawing on your vast experience with optical designs here? They don't just randomly add or take a couple elements and call it good, and the formula for the 45/2.8 is entirely different from anything else they currently have (nevermind the effing focal length and aperture)... This is nothing like the existing EF designs where they literally just extend the mount a few cm and essentially adapt it for a mirrorless E/L mount.

4 weeks agopermalink

You don't read or you don't understand... Sigma has made almost every focal length lens possible for DSLR mount (which are even turned to E and L mount). Now that they have, they can concentrate on making NEW (Yes, NEW) designs for native L and E mount. They are not pressured to make common focal lengths lenses (35, 50, 85... etc) like Nikon and Canon are. You can't really expect first lens for Z mount to be 45/2.8? Majority of people need 24-70 and faster primes first.

4 weeks agopermalink

Says you, zooms definitely outsell primes but I'd love to see what data you're drawing on to establish sales of anything else. Sony had an E mount 35/2.8 for years upon years before they finally made a 35/1.8 and enthusiasts are still kvetching anyway.

A stop and change of speed isn't making or breaking most shots, and if the vast majority of people really demand the fastest glass possible at all cost then why would Sigma start with this? They've always competed with CaNikon's fast glass too.

Maybe, just maybe, there's a healthy market for something like this... The horror.

4 weeks agopermalink

No one said zooms outsell primes. I said 24-70 AND fast primes. And no one said FASTEST primes. Reallity check, f/1.8 are most produced and most sold primes in FF system. Take 50/1.8 for example. Let me remind you that it's Sigma that started with f/1.4 glass.

4 weeks agopermalink

I thought that Sigma started with 50F2.8 Macro. And the 50F1.4EX came later, in 2008 or so.

4 weeks agopermalink

QuietOC

Sigma history: https://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com/lounge/sigma-history-1961-2010/

4 weeks agopermalink

jwilliams

It seems most here are missing the point of this lens. The 45 2.8 is meant to both be small and give great background blur. The point is the blur is very smooth. Look at the OOF areas of the pics. Very nice. Personally I'd rather have a little slower lens with smooth OOF areas than a faster one with harsh OOF areas. I don't own a camera for it, but if I did I'd buy one.

Many modern lenses are designed with just resolution in mind and many produce awful looking OOF areas. I was surprised to see Sigma did use aspheric lens elements in it. The look is rather old style. I think they have done an excellent job and hope to see more like this.

Sure I'd like it to cost less.

1 month agopermalink

Scottelly

Maybe you would buy a lens just for its out of focus areas, but not many will. Most buyers want a small, sharp, versatile lens, for the lowest price. For those who want a prime, it's usually because they want the lens to be smaller and sharper or brighter. This lens seems to just be smaller, but not smaller than DSLR lenses, which I find sad. It should be smaller and lighter than the Canon 50mm f1.8 . . . becuase it's an f2.8 lens, but it's not smaller and it's actually much heavier.

4 weeks agopermalink

Bhima78

@Scottelly
I can guarantee this lens is sharper at F2.8 than the OG Canon 50mm f1.8 is at F2.8. Good optics require more glass, more glass requires more weight. The Canon 50mm f1.8 is such a bog standard performing lens, it only is held in high regard because its like $150.

4 weeks agopermalink

At least it's priced lower than the CZ35/2.8 (but not as low as the similar Samyang)... I'd love to see a lot more lenses like either one, for any FF ML mount TBH, a longer one would have a lot of appeal for me since it's at longer FLs where I don't really see myself shooting wide open very much.

1 month agopermalink

Photodog2

Nice. 40 to 45mm is the range of my favorite FL for a one prime for the whole day walk-around lens. And 2.8 is fast enough for 99.9% of my shooting.

1 month ago*permalink

4sofnature

To me this lens is quite overpriced due to the following:
- It's bigger and pricier than many FF nifty fifties at f/1.8 (Nikon, Canon, and Sony)
- Sigma's own aps-c 30 f/1.4 DN beats it in light gathering ability for $300.
- Some other FE lens competition that are faster or cheaper or both, e.g. Batis 40 f/2, Rokinon 45 f/1.8.
- Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 only costs $300 more. Let that sink in.

1 month agopermalink

MayaTlab0

The only thing that's worth letting sink in is that it's largely irrelevant to compare lenses' prices based on a spec sheet alone while completely disregarding IQ. *sigh*.

1 month ago*permalink

Becksvart

300USD is 300USD, not insignificant for many, not to mention that the Tamron 28-75 is perhaps a little bit larger than this little thing. The Batis is dearer and has a bit of an AF issue; comparisons to the Samyang 45 1,8 will be interesting though.

1 month agopermalink

John Gellings

You forgot the pluses 4sofnature... it is the smallest FF normal lens for Sony FE and it has an aperture ring.

And why bring up the price of an APSC lens or a zoom?

Lastly... have you used it to know what the photos actually LOOK like or are you just the type to think faster aperture = better?

1 month agopermalink

4sofnature

@John Gellings I didn't say faster = better (performance), nor did I even suggest this other lenses are better. I'm evaluating this lens based on its performance/price ratio and fast aperture is one important indicator.
Also this lens is not much smaller than Samyang 45 f/1.8 and it weighs more.
Aperture ring is a good plus.

1 month agopermalink

John Gellings

But have you used it 4sofnature? I would think you`d have to use it to judge the performance/price ratio ...

1 month ago*permalink

MrBrightSide

Sadly, there's no correlation between wider f/stops and better performance. If there were, we'd all still be shooting with the Canon 50mm f/1.

1 month agopermalink

phouphou

you're probably right about the tamron 28-75, but then i'd love to see a bokeh comparsion at 45mm, i'm pretty sure the Sigma will have way less distracting bokeh rendering. And if that is what you are looking for at this focal length, the tamron is no option at all.

4 weeks agopermalink

4sofnature

@MrBrightSide Wider f/stop improves performance in low-light image quality, AF speed, bokeh, but only up to a certain practical extent. Think of this as an optimization problem where your objective is optimize performance and the constraints are weight, camera size, sensor technology, convenience, and cost. Apparently the market would have more 50 f/1 if cost and weight weren't the issues. Or more 50 f/8 if nobody wanted shallow DOF and computational photography had become so advanced that there would be no need for big lenses. For now a normal prime like this is expected to be cheaper, faster, and lighter than a zoom.

4 weeks agopermalink

MayaTlab0

A wider f stop won't improve bokeh, and this Sigma is the perfect example to demonstrate that. It relies on a not subtle dose of aberrations - most likely a deliberate tuning of spherical aberration - to enhance its rendering. A faster lens in these days and ages would need to be so well corrected wide open that it wouldn't have much of these aberrations left by f2.8.
While the following shots shouldn't be seen as a direct comparison as the point of view is vastly different, let alone the focal length, the rendering difference between the Sigma 45 @ 2.8 and the new 35mm 1.2 @ 2.8 should be quite visible nonetheless - that includes the centre of the frame, not just the corners (so it isn't just vignetting or field dependent aberrations that produce these differences) :
http://pliki.optyczne.pl/sigma45fe/DSC09050.JPG
http://pliki.optyczne.pl/sigma35f12fe/DSC08995.JPG

4 weeks agopermalink

MrBrightSide

4ofnature, you've been taught an insidious lie. Aperture is meaningless as a metric of lens quality. The only factor that matters is the talent of the engineers designing the lens. Is the team working cohesively, is everyone doing their best work, are they making the right tradeoffs, are they effective corporate lobbyists for their requirements, is the lens easy to manufacture to tight tolerances and so on.

4 weeks agopermalink

Lessiter

Nice to see more brands doing the Pentax thing! Would be really nice to see what everyone can come up with in the slow/small prime segment. Should be lots of creative potential when you let the aperture slip a bit.

1 month agopermalink

Mk7

Good enough quality. I was hoping for a smaller "pancake" size but I understand Sigma didn't want to compromise IQ.

1 month agopermalink

milkod2001

Love an idea of small, compact lenses but don't see anything special about this one. Looks like any 2.8 zoom lens would do the same. Wonder is Samyang 45 1.8 would not be better to get.

1 month agopermalink

Lessiter

Hmmm...

1,020g, ø88㎜ × 107.6㎜ 24-70mm F2.8 DG OS HSM | A
215g, ø64mm x 46.2mm45mm F2.8 DG DN | C

I think the gallery looks excellent. You can do quite a lot with f2.8 and you don't look stupid in urban environments with a lens this size.

1 month agopermalink

milkod2001

Hmm...,

Totally wrong comparison. I was talking about Samyang 45 1.8 not 24-70. Sigh...

1 month agopermalink

FujLiver

I have been using this lens on a Leica SL. Really stunning. For those that want a small walk around lens and 45mm appeals, its a must buy!

1 month agopermalink

Leandros S

Oh look, a cameo by Mr. Cinema5D!

1 month agopermalink

Carey Rose

It was my first time meeting Johnnie, he is a class act and an incredibly hard worker. Oh, he's a great videographer too :)

1 month agopermalink

phouphou

i must say that i really like the bokeh on this very small lens.
Once it starts selling closer to the price of you standard nifty fifty 1.8 i will consider a purchase.
I'd love to see Sigma continue this small/slower C-line with good bokeh, e.g. 85f2.8 or 135f3.5 would be great!

1 month agopermalink

Photodog2

I own a lot of legacy lenses that are f3.5 and frankly if one knows what they're doing with the distance ratio of subject to background, and the texture, color and light of the background, you can get lots of narrow DOF and creamy bokeh shots at f3.5 or higher.

1 month ago*permalink

Scottelly

I'm hoping they make an f2 lens like this, but with a lighter and smaller size, a little smaller than the Canon 50mm f1.8, and about the same weight.

4 weeks agopermalink

STEPH RHODES

A nice but not inexpensive lense for FF.
On an APSC camera with no IS, it seems very limited.

1 month agopermalink

This one seems to be a better copy, with better bokeh and sharpness. If I'm not imagining things :)

1 month agopermalink

Scottelly

Huh? This one? Was there another one?

4 weeks agopermalink

panther fan

While the lens performance still isn't amazing these samples are soooooo much better than the last Sigma 45mm gallery. That just shows how much good light helps getting better shots (and increasing the perceived IQ)

1 month ago*permalink