Well, a couple of things. Sure, the a5100 body might be small - but it isn't trivial that when you add a lens it is no longer in the same size range as the gr. Also - the lens on the gr is faster than the kit lens and probably better than the kit lens at 18mm. But - I do agree that if pocketable isn't a necessity then the a5100 is a much more flexible camera. But if I am willing to take just a small additional size compromise, the a6400 is massively more capable than any of them.

Size and weight matter.

The Sony a6400 is very capable in terms of auto-focus ability but it may not be all that useful in street photography. It does not have snap focus.

It also does not have IBIS.

Whatever lens you attach to it will make the whole package much larger and heavier.

Try to get a picture with the A5100 NOT with the full automatic (fool) mode. For me that is just a nightmare. For a photographer A5100 is worthless.

Yes, it is really pocketable.

Source: I have one in my pocket as I am typing this.

The GR III looks pretty pocketable to me, it's only like 2mm thicker than a Canon G9X (or my old Pana LF1, or a long line of similarly sized semi premium P&S)... Heck, it's more pocketable than a late model Sony RX100, it's wider/longer but 8mm thinner. That might not seem like much until you consider that's a whole phone's thickness.

My GX850 (or the GM1 I've been meaning to sell) is far smaller than any of these but I still wouldn't consider it pocketable (in pants or a shirt) because the smallest pancakes are still like 1" thick, carrying a lens in a second pocket just seems very kludgey... Pocketable in a jacket or cargos tho? Sure.

I think the whole "pocketable" thing is overblown. I honestly would never put anything larger than a small smart phone in my pocket. I would never walk around with one of these cameras in my pocket - it would send women and children running for the hills.

keepon:

Yes, provided you weren't wearing super tight jeans you could put this in the front pocket of your jeans.

Now, most wouldn't because dust, pocket knives, keys, change, etc.

Yes, you could still sit down with the camera in your front jeans pocket.

No, it a case, it would not be pocketable.

Are we playing Wheel of Fortune?

Autofocus is definitely slow compare to my RX100VI but definitely better than GRII, which I own, and XF10, which I bought it twice and returned twice because of the autofocus. Picture quality compare to the size is amazing and in my opinion pictures look sharper compare to GRII. Missing flash for me is a issue as I have young kid, and sometimes I cheat by using flash to freeze her movement! However, I knew this when I bought the camera. I did not notice the wobbly dial at all; as a long time user of point and shoot cameras I think all rotating wheel dials have this movement. I even checked my old Canon and after I did the stupid pencil poking test! it happened; Kudos to Ricoh to fix this for those who feel bad. I am sorry my few lines here are not as in-depth as your thoughts and experiences with this camera. I just thought I should add this to your useful insights.

@Just A Learner, flop? Flop was the word he was censoring? Well that's a **** big ****. James, you realize that this is the internet. You don't have to censor everything. Especially a word as outrageous and horrible as "flop."

FWIW, the words I censored are "very" and "deal." How outrageous of me to even think of saying such things!

I may add this. All the digital cameras I have owned, I guess it is well over a dozen, have never shown wobbly d-pads. For example, the d-pad in my Canon Powershot S100 is in perfect order and works perfectly fine. Time will tell what this GR3 is but it has revealed not a single issue but various issues already. A soldier in a battlefield must be confident in his weapon. I may be a soldier who has lost confidence in his firearms and it happens soldiers reject government issued firearms.

P.S.: I have a GR2 and I think GR2 is a better product than GR3 is. At a half the price as you may know.

No questions asked return policy does not apply in the country where I live. My knowledge is that the policy applies only in USA and certain countries in Europe.

@pro photo 2011 are you joking?
The photographs are taken by different photographers in different locations with different lighting. I hope you're not judging gear based on the skill of the photographer or the quality of the light when the samples were taken.

If you do I fully understand why Sony/Nikon/Canon spend large amounts of money setting up fake scenes at launch...

If you put the small pancake lens on the J5 it is very small and the image quality is fantastic every bit as good if not better and then when you want you can change lens to a better zoom range. The J5 is harder to hold but cost less than half.

You still have to learn a lot.

You can hold a GR low and point it, shooting from the hip. You can't do this with a smartphone really. It's got the camera grip and controls.
The point is that the GR is so small that people don't notice that you're carrying a camera. It looks like a toy.

Well in my opinion a lot more goes into it than just giving off the impression you are doing something else and "getting away" with taking a photo. Personally I'm not into the style of getting up in people's faces and taking photos and walking away, I like to get more of the scene in the photo and I never take an image where if someone was to see me and challenge it, I'd have a problem showing it to them and explaining what I do.

The GR is something comfortable and light enough to keep on your wrist all day, and you can set it up where you can almost shoot blind with 1 click and you get a good image. I guess theoretically you could carry around your phone on your wrist all day, but then you also have to set it up, make sure it's back on the camera app after you checked your email, and then frame and shoot. The GR is a LOT quicker in operation, and that also helps stealthiness.

That being said, I think a phone can be a good tool for street as well, I just think the GR is much better

Having only one focal length is very limiting, especially for almost a grand. For the price I paid for the GR2, it's a neat camera. At the $1K mark, there are much better options than this, IMO. Also, we are no longer living in the digital camera heyday we used to. Sales are tanking and people are just using cell phones.

Like I said - Ricoh Gr I came out at almost that price. One focal length can be expensive if lens is good and sensor good. And other features. Look at Fuji x100F etc

That the focal length being one is limiting - that’s understandable for your need but you are not forced to buy this camera right? It’s important to be able to appreciate a well species product even when it’s not for you.

@Raist3
When the GR1 came out there were not many compact alternatives . Fuji X70 and XF100 didn’t exist as well as many of compact ILC cameras with pancake lenses. So it’s not a good argument these days.

Times have changed. $900 is too much for this camera, but I won't be buying one, so whatever.

@Fox - The Fuji X70 is discontinued. Has a 16MP sensor. Not a bad camera, but just not quite the same thing.

The X100F is more expensive. Of course has other features- point is, you get what you pay for depending on what you look for.

Only the Ricoh GR gives you a completely pocketable 24 MP APS-C with optical stabilization and a superb lens. A great lens alone is often $$$.

Sales are tanking for all cameras, so let's see how this does. It'll be half price in no time.

@Raist
I didn’t mention X100F , I was taking about XF100 which is half of the price of this Ricoh. GRIII has no optical stabilization it has only 3 axis sensor shift that can’t be turned off even. Looks like you don’t know your math.

@Fox - the XF100 may be half the price of the Ricoh but doesn't fit in a pocket, doesn't have OIS. The GRIII is IBIS yes, but that's just semantics without a difference for what I was trying to say. And yes, you can turn it off (not sure where you got the idea you can't). You even have a setting to set the IBIS to OFF when you are doing a self timer - as an option (since it's common you would have the camera probably on a tripod).

Not only it seems I know my match, but also what I am talking about.

You are saddled with an antialias filter on the XF100, which takes out detail while you can simulate an AA filter with different strength settings on the Ricoh.

Again, you don't have to buy this camera, it's not for you, and it's cool. But that doesn't mean that the GRiii doesn't have a unique selling proposition in its class.

I carry it along with my DSLR and big tele so I can take wide shots if needed. I think I paid $400-500 for it, and the lens is as sharp as can be. It's a good camera, and does what I need. Personally, I can't see paying nearly double the price for a few extra features. That's just me. If other people feel it's worth it, go for it.

well, OOC jpgs of the GRIII is better than before, but still nothing to write home about. Edit the raw files, that's the way to go or shoot B/W

Not at all listless and flat. Pretty good actually.

Looking at these samples I don't understand your 'listless and drab' comment. If anything most images/color are pretty vibrant. Personally, I think I would tone down the saturation and even sharpness on some of these.

@Paul JN : I never carried my GR Digital in my pocket when I had one anyway, so "truly pocketable" is a non-feature for me. More to the point the size here shouldn't compromise the image quality anyway, once you've managed to stick an APSC sensor in there the output should look much like any other APSC camera...

Look more or less the same as what comes out of any standalone camera these days. Easy to adjust in-camera settings for more pop. I edited a couple in Google Photos and got very good results with just a few seconds of edits.

Not boring if you actually take photographs rather than collecting high-ticket fetish objects.

People appreciate design.

Yeah, pretty certain you're not getting the GR concept one little bit. Drabness is much of its allure.

As you should be.

This Batman's camera

Not a GR you want!
It has the best design ergonomically and is visually stealthy. Great optics, small size. Fab.

I'm a designer (so I have the final say ;) and I love the GR design. No other camera comes close beauty wise.

@Goodknight -

No, it is a nondescript camera. That really is the driving point behind its physical appearance. Your subjects, Joe & Jane Blow on the street, are not to notice you, thus ensuring they continue to do what they are doing without altering character because you're taking their picture.

One could argue any camera will draw attention. But compared to a big ILC or the shiny bits and bold brand names typical on most cameras, the GR is quite plain. It even looks a lot like a camera from the early '00's, again reinforcing the impression that it is No Big Deal.

I tried it, and the AF was excellent.

Now true, I didn't try tracking AF.

Build quality seems very good. And I've handed 3.

The operation was zippy.

So I have to think you got a bad copy.

@CaPi It might be helpful if you provide the type of camera you are used to using along side of your statement. This way people can determine if your opinions are relevant for them.

I was looking for a replacement for my X-100T. I use it with the wide angle adapter (28mm eqiv) and would love more res, quicker AF and IBIS.
That might explain my comments on build quality and JPG. Yes, I reviewed the samples provided here on DPR prior to the purchase. With RAW color rendition is of course less relevant - yet for quick sharing I find it is.
I found AF to be flaky in CF and some in SF using a single focus point: Sadly enough. Felt to be much quicker in Full auto AF but that'S not for me.
I did love the form factor. Startup time was good enough, battery life better than expected.
@Raw: Bad copy might have been the case. There was a slight rattle to be heard when shaking the switched off unit.

Thanks for the details @CaPi. I've heard about this rattle and it seems to be originated by the IBIS mechanism. It looks like a normal characteristic of the camera.

The slight "rattle" will be the IBIS sensor floating around when the power's off. Pentax owners are familiar with this.

Yep. Not unlike IMDB reviews. Pick a movie, any movie, and you will find reviews praising or panning the acting, direction, plot, etc. Believe it or not, someone out there thinks _Event Horizon_ is an example of fine acting, while someone else thinks the acting in _Naked_ is a stinker. Just goes to show that nothing pleases everyone, not movies nor cameras.

I had a GR II and stupidly sold it. I did not need any accessories ! It worked fine without any. Like any other camera, shooting raw and editing to your taste is the ticket

That's right. I'll just stick with the D800, with flash.
And the old GR.

@goblin
2019 called... the ISO and IBIS is there. Anyway, streetphotography with flash is, ahem, very strange.

I've shot thousands of pix with my GR II. Never used the flash once (and I don't think it works with the lens hood on). This is not the camera you choose for fill-flash portraits if you have other options. What you use it for is candid street photography and always-with-you photography.

@rawdinal
2019 calls the same as the fifty+ years before it: a pocketable/trip camera I'll be tacking pictures of sun-backlit people with, in picturesque settings, will have to have a flash to fill in the shadows. Feel free to ask your IBIS to stabilize a giggling toddler though :)
What also doesn't change, but for much longer, is people finding strange things that they don't do, understand or know. Nothing new.

@Richard Murday
No Canon 5D / Nikon D850 for me indeed, but if I had them - I'd have space for flashguns the size of a shoe in the bag, while I wouldn't have space for a flash even the size of a cigarette pack in my pocket - because the Ricoh would already be there.

@Larkhon
I do know. In my world, I'd ratheradjust shadows on a picture that has had its shadows filled in with a flash to begin with :-) Take a pic of your family with a sunset behind them, and all the DR in the world will laugh in your face. Or a backlit beach picture, or anything like it.

A pocket camera has to have built-in flash. Technology and progress can be and are a nice addition to that, not a replacement.

@AbrasiveReducer
I never worried with my Coolpix A, as long as it's alone in my pocket with nothing to bump against, or in a sleeve.

"No Canon 5D / Nikon D850 for you then."

Different tools with different feature set. The GR is meant to be used as a walk every where one camera kit, thus, missing the flash for fill-in seems poorly conceived.

I had a GRII hoping the APS-C would yield better images than my Sony RX100V. It didn't due to the slower lens hence higher ISO. Canon discovered the exact same thing with their GX1 III which I tried also the RX100V was still better.

To not have a flash on a pocketable always with you camera ruins this camera. 40% of my pictures with my RX100 are at a dinner table in a restaurant at parties events or where fill flash is required.
I used it almost every day to remind me of something or document something on our large building projects and buildings we maintain and flash is an absolute must.
The only time I use this as a regular camera is some travel or minor car shows or when I flat don't feel like taking my RX1R or a6500 or A7rIII/A9. It is a point and shoot not a serious camera.

Its too bad it is a simple little camera and the size is right but Ricoh shot themselves in the foot removing the flash and with the higher price. The GRII had a nice little niche if the lens was faster.

@goblin flash belongs off your camera

@gravis92 - Nope :)

Y'all missing the point that fill-in flash down the lens axis basically makes your photos look like ****. It's worse than useless.

I have hundreds if not thousands of pics taken with the Sony RX100 family with flash in restaurants that came out very well and I would not have been able to have very many keepers without the flash. They are not for submittal to my portfolios but captured wonderful moments and look darn good. Sorry to bust your bubble but when it is too dark to rescue the moment was wasted.

@HowaboutRaw, much better lens? perhaps a bit better, but difference only to be perceived if you pixel peep. 99% of the users will only be posting the images in instagram or a blog, even if printing you won't see a difference unless you print big. I havent seen anything special besides the tag price in all the examples posted until now...yes snap focus is great, but that is.... the following album was made with a fuji x70, yes is not a masterpiece far from it, but if taken with a gr it wouldn't make any difference... https://www.ilukewitsch.com/Fuji-X70/n-cRNXjv/

Users who just want Instagram or Blog pictures might as well use a phone. The Ricoh GR range produces much higher quality for larger display purposes.

Avoids something else to break, an especial concern with smaller cameras, there not being much of body to collapse the screen into.

Also makes the camera less expensive.

You do understand the concept behind a GR, right? Or perhaps you'd also like a collapsable super zoom and a popup flash as well?

The II has a flash and many will miss it.

The biggest commission to me - an EVF.

Hi, Thank you for the friendly response. The problem is dark is dark. I can't imagine the III's ISO performance makes a flash not needed. Posted in a friendly way but my point is some of us do use and will miss the flash that the previous model had.

Every GR since 1996 had built-in flash. It was part of the GR concept.

tailings:

Leaving out the flash means there's less to drain the small battery.

And that small battery allows for a big sensor and a powerful processor/RAM setup.

Everything is a trade off. Sometimes a flash is needed and the built in was handy. I can't imagine the III's ISO performance makes a flash not needed. Dark is dark. I don't believe Ricoh is providing a pop on flash but I could be wrong. Other brands do.

I would use a built-in flash mainly for fill-flash especially on sunny days. High ISO capability isn't much help in that situation. . . I'm a fan of the pop-up strobes on DSLRs because it often does the trick, so no need to carry a separate flash unless I plan on doing a lot of shooting where flash is needed.

@HowAboutRaw:Leaving out the flash means there's less to drain the small battery.
And that small battery allows for a big sensor and a powerful processor/RAM setup.
Makes no sense. It's not as if there isn't room in your pocket for a spare battery. The sensor and processor take up no more room than in the previous GR.
No sale. I hope this isn't the last GR and that the GR IV brings back the flash in a few years, but by then I probably won't even care, I'll just use a phone cam. Ricoh/Pentax have one foot in the grave anyway.