Leica M10 Monochrom sample gallery

Why so few ISO settings specified in Details?

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Roland Karlsson

It says 160-100000.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

RK:

You misunderstood my question.

The Details attached to the sample files (as displayed) list very few ISO settings. This is very very unusual for DPR samples.

Basically one has to download the files, in my case DNGs, to be able to read the ISO settings on most of the files.

There may be a way of sorting out files by ISO, but I prefer to choose files to download from larger files than thumbnails, so I check the image and the Details information, then click "raw" to download the file/s that interest me.

Did you check "Details"?

Oct 17, 2020permalink

left eye

All ISO = 59 shots
Listed under the individual ISO filters, adds up to 27 shots
...so 32 shots have disappeared from the ISO filter list.
Evidently they must be shots taken at ISO's that don't match the ISO filters.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

left eye:

That's interesting. RK's comment did make me look at the filters, though my slow interwebs connection wasn't sorting them. However, as I say above, most of the Details are missing ISO information. ISO information is almost always under Details, even if the filters system can't sort for some ISOs.

Then, for my purposes, I'm only really interested in samples shot with the 35mm Leica M lens, not the TL lens listed or the Minolta lens that shows up in Details.

From my own testing of the colour M10-R, I'm satisfied that this sensor-body-processor combination is a strong, not strongest, high ISO camera. So it's clear that the M10-R will be better still for higher ISO work.

Later, with a faster connection, I'll probably download the 8000-320000 ISO samples, no matter what lens was used.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

RK and Left Eye:

With a fast connection, I have now tried the sort by ISO function with web browsers based on Firefox, Chromium, and IE: The sort function, at least for ISOs, isn't working.

At least picking through the Details, I did find some higher ISO images with the ISO specified in Details. It was pain.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

Roland Karlsson

Nice. I am, very impressed. Sure, not all subjects benefits from monochrome. But, when they do it can be very nice. And the tonality in those image are superb.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

sum

No offense, the resolution in 1:1 is stunning, but for a lot of photos the B&W presentation in the album doesn't that eye catching... as always the Leica market, minority who can pay a handful of money on specialist tool

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Toselli

A lot of people just hates Leica for being expensive, and hates the whole black and white sensor concept too. That's really unfortunate, you can't deny that there are some advantages, the range of tonality is subtle, but the advantage in iso performance really sticks out! It can deliver truly usable images up to iso 32K! The unfortunate part of this hate is that it encourages all other consumer camera companies (read, all the camera makers from which normal people can afford to buy a camera) to be lazy and offer just color sensor cameras.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Phil Flash

It would be entertaining to put the Leica Monochrome in the hands of a photographer who specializes in monochrome work who can get the most out of it, and then comparing it to a regular full frame camera b&w conversion, and then for good measure, a Fuji X100v, which is the version of a Leica some of us can aspire to possibly afford one day.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

obsolescence

Conversion from color to monochrome provides numerous software options for adjustment of tonal rendering, some based on “film simulation profiles” and others through manipulation of brightness and contrast of individual colors. That is the most versatile way to go IMO. Having worked with and enjoyed these capabilities, I see no reason to use monochrome capture (other than as a dedicated system to take advantage of infrared sensitivity, which is of limited use because of its often rather extreme distortion of reality). Perhaps the ability to preview the mono image is a valid reason, but the final output is limited in how it can be interpreted.

Oct 14, 2020*permalink

Photodog2

Very nice images of my favorite Internet dog. Other than that, no comment.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

DGrinb

I'm pretty sure it's a great camera and has lots of use. I would gladly have one.
But I cannot get rid off this sensation that I always recognize Leica's sample gallery by its content.

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

dccberry

Although I have used and loved most of the M film bodies in their day, this doesn't do too much for me. The images seem pretty flat, so that may have to do with post-processing more than anything, but if I was making darkroom prints, most of these would not make the cut.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

UMR

I have to admit Leica's color science is super impressive!

Oct 13, 2020permalink

UMR:

it is and you can see it in many of these samples.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

Richmondthefish

Love those Leica colors

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Richmondthefish:

The light is there in the lower ISO M 35mm DNGs I've looked at. That light is what people, who speak of better Leica lens colour, see in B+W images. And that 35mm M Summilux isn't in the optically best M lens category.

So in fact, your joke, only works on a superficial level.

Oct 17, 2020permalink

colors?!

Oct 19, 2020permalink

I do a lot of B&W shooting and prefer B&W film to do this for my vision. The Leica M is probably the closest available in digital which resembles film. I will be honest - if the latest Leica M10s wouldn't be so out of this world price-wise for me, I would love to use one. And even if I spent the funds to get one, I would be so hesitant to use it out of fear of getting a damage or being robbed. Leica advertisements and influencers always try to make you feel you "need" the latest camera and the faster Summilux lens. In reality I feel more confident to use my M3 with inconspicuous f/2 or f/2.8 lenses for shooting instead.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

the man after my own heart

Oct 19, 2020permalink

If I shoot B&W, I also prefer film over digital fake film emulation profiles. An analogue Leica was (is) also made for a whole lifespan (even longer). So, the huge investment made sense. A digital Leica is outdated after a few years, before it gets a really nice patina. So it is not the real Leica thing, as long as they don't come up with an M series with completely exchangeable electronics part (including sensor).

That said, this digital M surely must be fun to use, if you like B&W stills shooting. But it is a very expensive, exclusive joy.

Oct 19, 2020*permalink

@Picturenaut: yes. Leica has moved more into the luxury business category when it stopped making the more affordable Summitar lens series and making a bit more reasonably priced "entry" M cameras like the M-E 240 last year. Leica likely survives mostly from collectors and enthusiasts who see it as investment. Likely less than 20% of all M cameras Leica sells are actually used as photographic tool, most might sit in safes.

Oct 19, 2020permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/4118757797/L1003301.shootingexperience.jpeg

@Copal Fit afaik leica still has a summarit series. I have one of that budget line and it's nothing to brag about. The M-E 240 was just an old stock dumped under new name. In reality it was cheaper because already outdated. Also I can't comprehend why their product can produce images like this:

It's m10, it's just iso 1250, but colours are so bad that even older nikon looks much nicer. Generally I would call this orange-yellowish mess (something in between nikon green and canon red) a modern 'Leica look'.

(taken from m10 review https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/4118757797/a-german-in-japan-leica-m10-shooting-experience)

Oct 19, 2020*permalink

(https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4429051)

The strong point of Leica is they are the only who makes an optical viewfinder as a main tool. Nobody else does. Fuji's OVF is unusable for manual focusing. People switches to EVF or autofocus instead. As I've read today:

"We used to have good focusing tools. Cameras had interchangeable focusing screens - each designed for different conditions. The AF came along and the camera companies decided in their infinite wisdom that we did not need those tools, slapped a matted screen in the camera and forced us to either depend on then AF or to struggle with manual focus."

Oct 19, 2020permalink

@Constantin V: True that the M-E 240 was old stock which was just used up and sold cheaper when the M 10 was already available. But the less known thing is that the M-E 240 was actually upgraded from the original M 240 series with the same buffer as in the M 10 (2 GB from 1 GB). I personally like the color rendition of the M-E 240 and prefer it over the Sony A7 series camera files.

Oct 20, 2020permalink

Well, Leica today is good for controversial discussions, and that's no bad thing. Plus, they try to be both traditional and up-to-time with their different series. The digital M series definitely is more a gadget for rich people, in Frankfurt, where I live, I see a lot of rich Chinese people just carrying a such camera with a red dot, but never taking photos with it.

Oct 20, 2020permalink

@Picturenaut: Agreed. I believe most sold non collectible Leica M cameras are not actually used in the field. The actual Leica M users which see the camera as tool must be slim. I belong to this user category even it is not the only digital camera I am using either. I would never ever buy a Leica camera which is more than $2.5K. This is my cutoff limit I set myself no matter which brand. Everything above is too severely affected by depreciation in value. And honestly, I wouldn't even take a $8K Leica camera with me anywhere because I would be afraid of being robbed or damaging it somehow. I only buy Leica gear used and at least one generation behind the newest and latest digital Leica M. This way there is not much depreciation at this point, and I can still resell it later for maybe 80% of the value I bought it for.

Oct 21, 2020permalink

@Copal Fit sounds reasonable. Personally I became attached to a film camera (which I somehow managed to get from US), and now when asked to make digital photos it just doesn't feel right with other tools. Do you buy used Leica without guarantee on ebay or go to official store instead? Anyway our domestic market is mostly closed for Leica, so used Fuji is me best bet.)

Oct 22, 2020permalink

@Constantin V: I never bought used Leica gear on ebay - in most cases overpriced plus you need to add tax now for purchased used items in the US. I bought some of it through domestic used camera gear websites (including limited warranty), some locally via direct trade, and one time at a local auction. I never bought at a Leica store either. I personally prefer local trade sites where I have the option to meet the seller and have a look at the gear first (no shipping fees/taxes to be paid either).

Oct 23, 2020permalink

@Copal Fit I see. I always suspected that life in Siberia is much harder.:-)

Oct 24, 2020permalink

Georgescanvas

This Leica will be good to pose in the street with but you have to work hard for the keeper shot.
If you want to learn about perfect light & shade you have to go waaayyy back and look at the paintings of the Dutch and Flemish masters. Van Eyck, Rubens, Rembrandt etc. Look at one of Rembrandt's self portraits and you will understand chiaroscuro immediately.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4H6eWEdGLM

you have always to work hard for a good image, and a view back into the history of arts can always be inspiring. Henry Cartier-Bresson came from drawing and painting, before he started with photography, and an experienced street artist can recognize HCB's highly trained eye in his images.

If you mean also manual focusing in the street, this is easy with such a good rangefinder. It needs some practice and classic photography skills, of course.

Oct 19, 2020*permalink

CanardNoir

From the comments below, "not impressed" seems the norm.

Now, put that camera in the hands of Jonas Rask, and everyone would be taking a mortgage on their house to buy it.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

marc petzold

Exactly. Jonas Rask is a really excellent Photographer, despite what some guys do say, i think they feel insecure, because he is really great. Posted some of his Fujifilm X-Series Review Links here back into it's heyday.

But i'd like to say, just see what Alan Schaller does with his M-Series Leica nowadays, i don't know a better Street Photography Artist into 2020 than him....he's quite extraordinary.

See some of his Videos on YT here, what he does with his Leica:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiLTW2wg-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrYfCr1Cmo8

Well, and there is always being real Film. And i am out of TriX 400. Yes, Film Developement is expensive, if one doesn't do it into his/her Darkroom.
But still...it does make such Fun, to exchange your -Fullframe- 36x24mm "Sensor" all 36 Frames.

Good Light.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

badi

@Canard - sure thing, but the question is: If Jonas Rask would choose his own camera for a B&W job, would he choose an M10 monochrom for the extra bit in detail & light, or a normal M10 for the better control in PP.

Well, he would probably choose an GFX if high-res is important or a X-Pro for convenience ... speaking of which, as I said somewhere else as well, the monochrom is totally a cool camera, a cool gadget or even a cool tool in the proper hands. I would clearly like one if I has the spare money, but as output goes there are a lot of better options - the GFX50R is almost 3 times cheaper, not really much bigger (well, the lens are) and the output is far superior.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

@marc petzold: I agree with your comment, but adding to this, seeing the YT Leica based videos, I could get the impression that > 90% of Leica M photographers are street/documentary photographers. I am for example not one of them. I wish Leica would put more effort in showcasing a) younger and b) photographers who focus on architecture/landscape/fine art photography. That's very subjective, of course - but I don't get the inspiration I am looking for in most Leica videos since the focus is so very different. The camera is just a tool for me - and I am using multiple brands, too. But I find other brands do a much better job in showcasing users in all kind of different shooting situations. Leica seems to be stuck in a very traditional way here, and I can see that they try to continue marketing this as buying into their history with Leica gear. But I can tell from my experience that Leica M gear for example can be used in a lot different ways which is hardly showcased.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

marc petzold

@Copal Fit
I agree with you - Leica is mostly being known for Street Photography (Art), but not Landscape, Industry, or Architecture Photography. Gear is just a Tool, and the best Camera is that one, that's with you. Hence therefore i have for Ages the Tagline for Chase Jarvis here. If one can't make a good Composition with 0815 Gear, than with nothing else either way. I like Simplicity, therefore, the Leica Way in Terms of M-Series Rangefinders are perfect, albeit quite expensive, and i am not rich or wealthy.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

VidJa

Didn’t know Rask, great pictures. But...nothing that could not have been done with ANY decent film camera.
Let alone the Leica. Technically perfect, but way too expensive

Oct 13, 2020permalink

jafleming3

Agree with Petzold that Schaller is a Master in his use of the Leica M10 Monochrom. One feature of this camera not often mentioned is its unique sensor’s ability to handle low light / high ISO (25,000+), which is unique to Leicas.

Oct 16, 2020permalink

@jafleming3: but who needs this high ISO? Okay, high ISO is a marketing gag for other brands in newer cameras, too - so Leica is not alone here. I can see that somebody shooting in dim light, for example concerts etc might want to use something about ISO 10K in an extreme, but above? I personally find low ISO performance more useful, but I also admit that my style in photography doesn't require more than ISO 1600 normally. That's why the M 240 is still fine for me regarding high ISO limitation.

Oct 16, 2020permalink

pollup

Now we know why other manufacturers are not producing B&W cameras.
In theory, this sounds amazing, more light gathering, more resolution, but in practice, the difference is very hard to notice. I was ready to be blown away, but this didn't happen ...

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Lessiter

The resolution is outstanding, look at the headlights of the white car in front of dark building. Thats crazy amount of detail, you only get pixels that sharp with Pentax pixelshift which requires tripod.

The low light performance is also very very good.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Toselli

Name me a full frame camera that can pull out 40 Mpx files sharp like that, and clean up to iso 32K (not 3200, ten times as that). Maybe the GFX 100 is a little sharper, but I don't think it can go such high iso so effortlessly.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Jacob the Photographer

Just yesterday had to make a reproduction of a 70 year old B&W print of about 8x10 cm. It was a very good , very sharp - high contrast , rich tonality portrait . To be enlarged to 40 x 50 cm.
All I had is a Fuji XH-1 with 50mm 2.0 and my good old Linhof copy-stand. Combined with some Photoshop trickery to start and NIK collection Silver Effex to finish I created a print I was quite impressed with. Coming from the old 1960's to 1980's B&W film school I may have some old film memories residing in my antiquated grey cells to tell when a print is good ... !
Then looking at the DPreview Leica monochrom 'gallery' ..... seriously ?
8 grand for a Leica without lens ..... for a camera that can not even shoot in color OR b&w like my Fuji can do and can not even create recognizable sharper prints at normal user format like my Fuji ?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

If you processed those files to taste, that Leica would annihilate your Fuji. You are not comparing like with like. Download some RAW files and work with them - not with a hammer though - and see for yourself.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

quintana

I have seen much better B&W conversions from cameras like the Sigma DP Merrill series or the Ricoh GR.

The pictures in this gallery look pretty dull to me. I really wonder why anyone in his right mind would sacrifice the color information and rob himself of much more flexible post processing options by doing so.

And I'm saying this as someone who had the M9 Monochrom for a couple of months. Worst camera decision in my life and as someone who suffers from GAS I've had a few.

I know, Leica aficionados will say that I didn't get the point of the camera. So be it...

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Barney Britton

Unimpressive and pathetic "to say the least".

Go on....

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Lessiter

G16 "taste is like the behind divided" old Swedish saying

These sooc images have a very linear response but id be surprised if you cant make adjustments in camera if you wish.

I find these photos nicer than most dpreview galleries. More experimentation and looking. That sony? compact gallery was good though.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Toselli

I simply love foveon sensors, but let's face reality, they really have bad sensibility, while this black and white sensor is the exact other end of the spectrum.

Also I don't know what's wrong with the pictures, they are straight out of the camera, and probably plenty pliable. I don't know if you want an art installation or edited pictures that doesn't give you an idea of how the camera shoots.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Lightmomentum

Leica's forte is sharpness and extreme resolution which is the criteria for industrial and surveying lenses.

Oct 15, 2020permalink

"The pictures in this gallery look pretty dull to me." - may be you have not so bad eye after all...

"I really wonder why anyone in his right mind would sacrifice the color information and rob himself of much more flexible post processing options by doing so." - i don't like post-processing at all. It's not what makes the photo shines. but the scene in first place.

Oct 19, 2020permalink

Akgbkd

Do a blind comparison with on of these and any color sensor camera with b/w postprocessing. Most of these leica snobs won't be able to tell the difference.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

How about a blind comparison of 40"x60" gelatin silver prints. On a computer screen it's hard to see the difference.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Akgbkd:

Assuming the same sensor resolution and lens, these will be sharper, and all other things being equal (which they oft aren't) DNGs from the M10 Monchrome will be less noisy.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

badi

well, actually B/W processing of color images are generally better (not detail wise) because of the possibility to tune individual ranges of color differently. But that is not the point of this camera.

This is about the craft of "true and old" B&W, achieving the results you want with the proper filters etc. It clearly is not for you, and not for me, though if I had the money to spare I wouldn't mind getting one. :)

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

VidJa

In that case., pull out the old FM2, find some film and make things happen... for about 1/100 of the price this camera costs

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Zaax

To bad that Fujifilm does not come out with an X100VM monochrome. I bet that they would sell a lot of them.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

User3825965274

why are all the images jpegs? The joy not B/W photography for me is in the printing. being able to adjust the tonality through developers, contrast filters and dodging and burning is part of the art, Why were there no adjusted raw files? Many of the out of camera jpgs looked flat and many of the highlights were blown out. I have made the pilgrimage to Wetzlar and have long used the film cameras and the folks there make a great product. This gallery did not demonstrate that.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

lds2k

most of these shots are great but some are not meant for b&w

Oct 13, 2020permalink

FoxShutter

Unfortunately CMOS Monochromes can’t reproduce pictures taken with CCD Leicas : M9 and especially the M8. More than that , almost any CCD , especially one in the Epson RD1, which was in production until 2014 btw, take better overall pictures than this new 40+ MP Leica.
Additionally, whoever took these photos would better go and take some colour pictures with some other camera instead.

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

FoxShutter,

Say why [you think] those CCD based colour bodies produce images with better IQ when used with the same lenses--include the monochrome M9 in your answer if you like.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

There's nothing like a dpr gallery to show the ignorance or biases of the viewers! The thing with a camera like this is it's not throwing away light by passing through a colour filter and it's not throwing away detail either (a bit like a Foveon). Straight out of camera files will inevitably look flat because a "punchy" look is achieved by not having a flat tonal curve. This thing captures a very flat tonal curve, which allows the photographer considerable artistic leeway but you won't see that in a neutral gallery like this.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

dan_darkroom

Correct me if I am wrong: With a pure b/w image I have less possibilities in pp. With a color images and I can turn a blue sky black for dramatic cloud effects, with a pure b/w image I can't.

I might be totally wrong. I really like to know.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Elisam

Different processes. But you can use colour filters just like we did with film.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

dan_darkroom

I am aware of the round glass things our ancestors put before their lens - and this is great. But it still gives you just one effect and not the full PP possibilities (channel mixer to give an example)

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Elisam

Sure, but it also gives you other things. If you want a colour camera I’m pretty sure there are a few options out there for you.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Tom_A

No dpr gallery should ever be posted without a few portraits. Not dog portraits.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Barney Britton

Admit it. You made that rule up.

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

Tom_A

Indeed, I just did!
But truly, portraits are always good to get a feel for image quality.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Barbu

Even if this should've had some portraits in it, a stopgap is merging your impressions with the other gallery from DPrTV: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/1159843371/leica-m10-monochrom-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv

Oct 13, 2020permalink

wats0n

So what does this camera do with black and white that cannot be achieved with a traditional digital camera ? I

Oct 13, 2020permalink

It's not filtering via a light blocking colour filter array, then re-interpolating black and white data. At the very least, there's more light to play with but there is obviously no colour moiré either. That equals increased detail.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Michael Ma

It's for microcontrast sniffing aficionados. It can capture finer details that don't have much contrast in greater detail per gain and light available. And the contrast in the minor details helps with a better perception of dimension and overall a more engaging experience in the photo.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Tom_A

The previous 2 comments explained it well. The gallery doesn’t really convey the incredible bw image quality that is possible, more so than with a traditional FF camera.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Elisam

‘Traditional’ colour digital cameras have pixels that capture different colours and only those colours. In order to get actual colour information it then has to interpolate the colour from surrounding pixels. This blending of coloured dots together causes a blurring of information between the dots. It also starts to create noise ‘splodges’ because noise is random, but if one or two pixels detect as ‘noise’ then the surrounding pixels interpolate that noise as ‘image’ and infer those surrounding colours.

On a pure B&W sensor there is no pixel to pixel interpolation, so no blending between pixels. They just are what they are. This means more detail and less splodges of noise, instead noise is very fine as it is confined to that pixel.

Saying that I haven’t seen anything I’m terribly impressed with this image sensor. But have a look at the older 246 on the image comparison tool or better yet download the RAWs from it.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Is it me or do most of the snaps have a muddy look to them?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

NarrBL

It's some combination of DPReview's image processing when reducing images to browser size, and browsers themselves. Double-click, wait, and you'll soon see the full-size image, at least as jpg.

Sharpness then looks pretty stunning, save when there's a heavy blowout from a light in the night, or when someone blew the focus...it does happen :}

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Andrew Schwartz

I'm sure this gallery illustrates the boundaries of this camera and are technically good photos. But they really don't do anything for me nor give any sense of why someone would want a Monochrom camera. Maybe for something so unusual it would be better to get some guest photographers who could instead focus on the why.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=leica_m_monochrom_typ246&attr13_1=leica_m10&attr13_2=sony_a7riv&attr13_3=fujifilm_gfx100&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=400&attr16_1=400&attr16_2=400&attr16_3=400&attr126_2=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=-1.0009817878828529&y=-1.0822924097151814

To be fair, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. To give that punchy, black and white look, you end up throwing a lot of information away. They could hardly do that here!

Oct 14, 2020permalink

Michael Firstlight

For B&W I'll stick with film - it is perfect in it's imperfection.

MFL

Oct 12, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

You would need larger than medium format film to get this kind of resolution.

I'll take a M10 Monochrom over a Texas Leica and day. BTW I've been shooting Full Frame, medium format and 4x5 film since the 1960s.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Michael Firstlight

I shoot and develop both 6x7 and 4x5 - resolution isn't an issue.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

@Relaxed, very true 8-)

Oct 13, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

@Michael Firstlight said: "I shoot and develop both 6x7 and 4x5 - resolution isn't an issue."

BIG prints require BIG resolution. Do you make 40x60 inch gelatin silver prints?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Michael Firstlight

I make up to 30x40 myself in my own darkroom.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Brotherbill

Shooting monochrome is a different experience entirely from color conversion. I converted my D850 some time ago. Couldn’t be happier with results. And it was much cheaper.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

AstroStan

"converted my D850 "

presumably removed the Bayer filters?
DIY or had it done? (friction eraser or chemical peel?)
are there removal artifacts that benefit from flat fielding?
retain or replace the internal IR-blocking and/or AA filter(s)?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Brotherbill

Had conversation done by MaxMax. I’m a numbskull about how it’s done, but I’m happy as hell with results. I love shooting black and white, so this has been a real dream come true for me. I’m too old and decrepit to lug around large format gear. This setup is as close as possible.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

JCMarafona

Not impressed really..quite far from that.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

ecovilks

sterile black and white images Whoever has taken theses images lacks knowledge in the dynamics of B&W photography.

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

ecovilks

I have played around with the Leica monochromes and cameras are great better than their other offerings

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

turvyT

In no way this b&w is similar to chemical b&w. It can be nice or not, but this is superdigital b&w, similar to charcoal drawing, sort of weird b&w watercolor. M8 b&w is much nicer and even close to the chemical one. Never liked Monochromes for b&w, weirdly enough.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

TheGrammarFairy

You might have a point about the M8. I've seen heartbreakingly beautiful images out of that camera—especially b&w. I wonder what it's secret was.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

turvyT

Not only M8, Ricoh GR digital series b&w floors Leica MM's b&w too.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

TheGrammarFairy

Don’t quite have the money for Leica, do you have any preference for which Ricoh to buy? Or do they all produce the same picture?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

turvyT

If you like rough, very contrasty b&w, with not much resolution but prone to interesting effects due to the slow speed, go for the GRD1. Extreme in many ways, but slow. Then GRD 2, 3 and four are fine, more polished, I'd go for the Grd4, although there is something in Grd2 b&w that's very appealing too. All GRDs have some Daido Moriyama touch. If you prefer higher resolution, despite getting into some light watercolor like effects, go for the GR. For me, the Gr2 is the grail, holy or not, although I've not used the Gr3 enough to have a clear rationale about it. If you just want to play safe, get a brand new Gr3. Any GR is very interesting and capable of outstanding b&w. The style of shooting that one of this small wonder cameras forces you to adpopt is always challenging and refreshing. They will change your photography.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Toilet Roll

Not impressed at all. Even if I could afford a Leica its nothing my full frame can't achieve at a fraction of the cost.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Johans81

Pretty sure it cant

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Magnar W

Leica is for the few, those who like to pay for a breeze of nostalgia. Now without color.

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

lnsmr

Which FF do you have? I have a few FF, both Sony and Canon, and they can't get close to M10M for BW pictures.
That being said, I prefer to shoot color and covert to BW so I don't have to put on color filters on M10M.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Magnar W

@ lnsmr: When using the color information for grey scale adjustment, you can surpass the image quality of any B&W sensor, maybe except for resolution, which often is more than needed anyway.

Note that a Bayer matrix sensor also use all pixels for defining fine detail (there might be a small loss due to the doubling of green filters, but this is negligible). If you don't believe this, just look at a raw file before the color conversion process!

Oct 13, 2020*permalink

Lessiter

Is it just the black and white or is this gallery different than most dpreview galleries? It seems to be more complex compositions, more observations, layering and open quality of the images.

Does anyone else see it? I'm honestly wondering if I'm swayed by the bw to see different things or if a Leica Monochrome turns everyone into a more observational photographer. I like it by the way.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

ovatab

it’s because there are more motorcycles and cars and less pets in the gallery

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Zack Huggins

To me, it looks like they were having a little more fun using the camera to shoot this gallery.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Tungsten Nordstein

Yes, I saw it right away.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

matsonfamily

i don't see a difference between the M Monochom and the M10 in the studio scene comparison tool. Care to enlighten me?

Oct 12, 2020permalink

matsonfamily

also, since they are at the same settings, why isn't the monochrome camera 2/3rds of a stop brighter?

Oct 13, 2020permalink

rsf3127

My bluntness doesn't allow me to rationalize the process of acquisition of this camera. My accountant thanks me for that.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

aiphoto1980

I dont care if it makes sense, I do care that I cant afford one, but I want one :)

Oct 12, 2020permalink

winkalman

DPReview commenters: Fullframe is the one true format; it's a full stop better in low light than APS-C.

Also DPReview commenters: A monochrome sensor is useless. It's only one stop better than a bayer sensor.

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

SmilerGrogan

The one true format is 6cmx6cm (2 1/4" square for Americans). And available light isn't an issue because photographers are always prepared to make their own light.
Wannabes just take photos, real photographers make photos,

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Johans81

“Wannabes take photos, photographers makes photos”

There is some truth to rhis. You can easily see if a poster here is a specwarrior That takes photos or a Photographer that makes photos . The first one are those that are obsessed about writing in every news section how inferior that camera are to the brand they shoot with .

Oct 12, 2020permalink

tkbslc

Does it actually give a full stop? Is there a comparison to show this?

Just converting to black and white from color already improves low light because chroma noise is less of an issue.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

AKH

I certainly do not see a full stop advantage when pixel peeing on some of the high ISO images in the gallery.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

SmilerGrogan

What does a "full stop" even mean. According to the geniuses around here cameras are ISO Invariant which means they take the same picture whether your ISO is 32 or 32,000,000.

Oct 14, 2020permalink

OhMyGod

The images here really remind me of what my GX9 can do with the L Monchrome D profile applied https://flic.kr/p/2jTeGgJ (highlights reduced, very slight increase of exposure and very slight contrast bump in LR)

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Neverlost99

Nope

Oct 12, 2020permalink

OhMyGod

Yep

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Slouch Hooligan

Maybeep

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Boss of Sony

Doesn't seem to have comparable dynamic range and range of gray shades.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

OhMyGod

@Boss of Sony, I would argue you are basing this on seeing one image vs all the images in the gallery and it collectively makes you think there is something off about the DR and gray shades, but look, this m43 raw file is pretty flexible nonetheless. and I am sure you can pull lots out of it.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

Zack Huggins

Great sample gallery! The M10 Monochrom lends itself well to spooky Halloween imagery

Oct 12, 2020permalink

PhotoRotterdam

Someone had fun with a photowalk :)

Oct 12, 2020permalink

moga

I would use this Monochrome to shoot with Red, Green and Blue filters and then combine them in a single DNG. The resulting color image will be nothing short of mindblowing... neah, I'd rather shoot a Pentax k1 for full color information...

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

whitelens

.....making it capable of producing stunning black and white images....
The only thing "stunning" here is the price of this camera!

Oct 12, 2020permalink

Henning W

...and many of the comments.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

zakaria

Some of best b&w i saw here.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

quintana

Then you probably haven't seen a lot of b&w.

Oct 13, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

People who seem overly concerned about the effects of color filter arrays sound like the same kind of people who could spend hours telling you about their archival washing technique back in the film days.

If using a monochromatic camera inspires you to make better B&W images and you can afford the Lieca that's great. Sounds like you found a good match. Never underestimate the effects of process and inspiration on creating.

But, if you are trying to make a technical argument that this camera will result in superior technical results vs a camera with a built in color filter array than I think that's a heavy lift and you should expect reasonable people to be skeptical.

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

Halftrack

Best comment I've seen on DPR in ages.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

A Owens

"if you are trying to make a technical argument that this camera will result in superior technical results"

Of course that is the argument. It is not a heavy lift at all. Do you know how a Bayer array works?

Oct 12, 2020permalink

davesurrey

It may be a heavy lift for you but there are technical advantages, whether you like it or not. Just read what xerojay, bionet and Barbu say above. Google it if you don't understand colour science or believe it. And then look at the work on Howardshooter's site.
I am not saying that there is a huge difference but to deny the way the technology works is worthy of being challenged.
BTW I am not a Leica owner or a fan and agree that they are sold at a premium but facts are facts.

Oct 12, 2020*permalink

Steven Noyes

This camera, either either a red or blue filter, will provide far superior results than on with a CFA. It’s that simple.

I loved shooting B&W with a 25A red filter.

Oct 12, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Not sure why this is so hard to understand: When you pick up this camera you can only shoot BW. That changes the way you do stuff. It's not any different than telling someone who shoots zooms to switch and work with a single fixed focal length lens for a while. It makes you move and frame shots differently.
I think part of the problem is that now all cameras feel like they have to compete with phones. Has to be all or nothing. You leave the house and could shoot portraits, vlog, and maybe do amazing wildlife shots.

That is not how you develop craft. Most of the time you spend years working on one or maybe two types of photography if you're lucky. So yeah, it's cool to have something that helps you focus completely on that task.

And if you can't afford this just say that. I literally had to sell my car to buy my first Nikon. I get it.

Oct 13, 2020permalink