Sony Xperia Z3 camera review

I've very thoroughly compared the Note4 to the iPhone5 and the Air2. (The two of which shoots somewhat worse pano than the iPhone6+ because of the smaller sensor and, with the iPhone5, the fixed exppsure.) The iPhone5 / Air2 are *significantly* better in everything, particularly stitching. But even 1:1 per-pixel detail level is significantly better on the Apple shots (both the Air2 and the iPhone5, let alone the iPhone6(+)), even if you take into account that the iPhone5 has significantly lower-res panos. (But still outdoes the Note4.) I'll some day publish an article on all my findings.

BTW, I wouldn't always believe what GSMArena states. For example, their Note4 vs. iPhone6(+) comparison has some *major* factual errors showing the authors don't really understand photography. See my article on HDR shooting on the Note4 at http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55091339 for more info (search for "GSMarena" to quickly find the given part of the article.)

The iPhone 6 might use an old sensor (I am actually not sure if this is true) but they certainly get very good IQ out of it and that's what counts. Most (but not all) of the higher res sensors in Android and Windows phones are not capable of resolving better detail than the 8MP sensor in the Apple.

"The iPhone 6 uses a 2012 Sony chip. Which is the same now used by budget Android phones. The Note 4 uses a much improved and much more expensive 16mp chip from the same maker. It's funny how you believe the older chip is better."

*Yawn*

Please DO read my articles on achieving the best possible image quality with Note4 camera before posting such clueless feedback.

1, in the several articles I've published, I've often emphasized the Note4 produces better overall IQ than any iPhone (incl. the latest ones), assuming you do use almost-RAW saving (instead of the stock, absolutely bad Camera app)

2, I've also emphasized several times the Note4 has some essential features simply not possible/available on any iPhones (4K video, stereo audio, dual camera mode etc. - these features I very frequently use on my Note4 too.)

3, in my comments above, I *only* spoke of sweep panos and nothing else. In sweep panos, the Note4 is *significantly* worse than any iPhone / iPad.

"LOL, yeah, right. In the reality distortion field, Sony's 2012 8mp camera chip (which is what Apple uses) is much worse than Sony's 2015 20mp camera chip."

Man, check out these images in the article. While I'm not particularly fond of the camera in iPhones (again, I prefer the Note4 camera, shooting in semi-RAW mode and post processing on the desktop) apart from the sweep pano and the 240 fps slo-mo mode (both produce *significantly* better output than the Note4), I do need to state the iPhones have a *significantly* better lens-sensor combination than the Z3. If the lens softness (decentering?) issue is common with the Z3, then, it's practically useless for shooting. The generic softness on the right side is apparent even in the 8Mpixel superior auto mode, let alone the 20 Mpixel one. And after the very strong and detail-smearing noise reduction & sharpening. With near-RAW output, the results would be even more awful.

<cont'd below>

<cont'd from above>

It must be stressed again that the sensor is only part of the equation. Lens quality and software processing also have a VERY strong effect on the end results. And, based on this article,

- the lens quality has a lot to be desired (decentering / softness issues)

- the OOC JPEG's are awful WRT noise reduction smearing & oversharpening (just like with the Note4, I should add).

In these two areas, iPhones are definitely better. I've had *several* iPhones but have never seen one with a decentered / particularly soft lens. Their lens quality and QA are pretty consistent. The OOC JPEG's aren't oversharpened / (too much) smeared either - in this regard, the Note4 / the Z3 are significantly worse, too.

Let me point out again that, with the Snapdragon 805-based Note4 at least, you can save almost-RAW's, which result in way better quality than anything achievable with the stock Camera app (or the iPhone in standard stills mode, I'd add).

"Again, you're saying that Sony's 2012 8mp chip is better than Sony's 2015 20mp chip.

And to you it makes complete sense...

(facepalm)"

Could you please at least try to understand what I say?

1, newer-tech sensor itself doesn't guarantee better image quality
2, the Z3 is certainly let down by

a, lens quality / QA issues (see DPR's review above)
b, the very strong noise reduction / oversharpening. This could only be fixed by saving images BEFORE applying the noise reduction / oversharpening - the way I advocate with Snap805-based Note4's.

These latter two bullets have a very strong (and adversary) effect on the Z3's output images.

Again, the sensor is just part of the equation. Lens quality and processing also have a HUGE effect on the overall quality.

"Could you please at least try to understand what I say?"

You're making ridiculous assumptions like Samsung having a worse quality control than Apple. Oh yeah, you've owned several iPhones, no doubt about it (I'm sure you wouldn't be caught dead using an Android...) But your anecdotal experience limited to a few phones doesn't mean that Apple has a perfect quality control. But hey, you know with absolute certainty that Samsung has a terrible QC and that's what you run with, real evidence be damned...

Again, the only reason you review Android phones is to unfairly compare them to the iPhone and then tear them apart. Like all "reviewers", you pick an absolutely insignificant detail where Apple has the upper hand and make it all about that. When Apple had the resolution advantage with their MBP's, it was ALL about resolution. Now that Apple is getting crushed by a slew of new Windows laptops with a 4K screen, all of a sudden resolution is meaningless, and it's all about battery life... My goodness, you people are soooooo predictable...

Don't worry, that's what most American tech "journalists" do. I'm sure you're well aware that your career would be over in a New York minute if you dared to tell the truth about Apple products...

"You're making ridiculous assumptions like Samsung having a worse quality control than Apple."

Nope. It's Sony that has terrible QC, at least when it comes to lens decentering issues. I've never stated Samsung has bad QC. WRT Samsung, I've "only" spoken of the, compared to Apple's implementation, significantly inferior sweep pano output quality but absolutely NOTHING else.

Again, please, VERY thoroughly read my posts before posting anything.

"Like all "reviewers", you pick an absolutely insignificant detail where Apple has the upper hand and make it all about that."

I bet I know 1000 times more about smartphone photogrphy than you. (And, for that matter, than the PhoneArena / GSM Arena folks.)

"I'm sure you're well aware that your career would be over in a New York minute if you dared to tell the truth about Apple products..."

You're referring to me? I'm in Europe, not in the US. And I only write articles for fun and for FREE, to help people. And no, I'm not on Apple's payroll. Otherwise, I wouldn't be publishing VERY-VERY long articles (did you even bother check them out? I seriously doubt it...) on getting the best possible image quality off the Samsung Note 4.

"LOL, sure. [referring to my stating Sony has trashy QC]"

Did you read DPR's review above? They clearly state the lens of their Z3 had *major* decentering (softness) issues. Which is definitely a QC issue.

"BTW, I wouldn't always believe what GSMArena states."

Yeah, everyone should just blindly believe you and your anecdotal evidence...

"They clearly state the lens of their Z3 had *major* decentering (softness) issues. Which is definitely a QC issue."

So? They got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...) Do you have any REAL evidence that every iPhone is perfect? I'm pretty sure that if you received a less-than-perfect iPhone for review you'd immediately notify Apple and ask for a better one. You know, one of those cherry picked for review...

"Yeah, everyone should just blindly believe you and your anecdotal evidence..."

Are you trolling?! What "anecdotal evidence" is in my Note 4 HDR article, where I've very clearly *proved* GSMArena's Note4 HDR-specific comments being completely wrong? Or, for that matter, anything unexplained?!

Here's the article link again (here at the DPR forums): http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55091339

"So? They got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...)"

Why should DPR talk to Apple when it's Sony's handset they're reviewing?!

"Do you have any REAL evidence that every iPhone is perfect? I'm pretty sure that if you received a less-than-perfect iPhone for review you'd immediately notify Apple and ask for a better one. You know, one of those cherry picked for review..."

1, I don't review hardware. US-based reviewers are far faster than I (remember, I'm in Europe, meaning receiving everything much later) and, also, my mother tongue isn't English, which makes it much harder for me to address laymen (non-geeks).

2, on the other hand, as I know both the Android and iOS operating systems like the palm of my hand, including hardware, I post tons of geek tips and articles. See for example my detailed Note4 photography series here in the DPR forums.

"Why should DPR talk to Apple when it's Sony's handset they're reviewing?!"

LOL, now who isn't reading whom? I said that DPR should have called Sony and notify them that they received a defective sample. And then I added that I'm 100% sure they would have done that if it were an Apple product.

Yes, of course, you are THE expert, and even people who do that for a living can't hold a candle to you, as you openly stated.

You should apply for a job at Apple, they're going to absolutely love your arrogance, as well as your devotion to the church...

"LOL, now who isn't reading whom? I said that DPR should have called Sony and notify them that they received a defective sample. And then I added that I'm 100% sure they would have done that if it were an Apple product."

I really think you're trolling. You've posted the following about an hour ago:

"So? They [DPR] got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...)"

You clearly talked about DPR's notifying *Apple* (and ask for a better review unit), not *Sony*.

Pretty obvious that I typed Apple by mistake. But then again, it's typical of trolls to harp on such insignificant minutia...

"Yes, of course, you are THE expert, and even people who do that for a living can't hold a candle to you, as you openly stated. "

Writing articles for a living doesn't necessarily mean being absolutely well versed in all related, covered topics. Not in the least. Have you seen the latest PhoneArena "blind test"? It has certainly shown the PA folks know absolutely nothing about photography.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Galaxy-Note-4-dominates-our-blind-camera-comparison-beats-a-Canon-DSLR-and-the-iPhone-6-Plus_id66093

And, regrettably, GSMArena's articles are also full of factual mistakes WRT photography.

And those are only two examples of journalists posting cr@p. I could continue the list with other publications...

"Pretty obvious that I typed Apple by mistake. But then again, it's typical of trolls to harp on such insignificant minutia..."

It's you that's trolling, not me. You've been twisting my words ever since the beginning. For example, right at start, you stated I had been trashing Samsung when I had "only" talked about Sony's Z3.

You're trashing anything not made by Apple. That much is obvious. And further the incredible lies spread by the Apple propaganda, according to which a 2012 Sony chip is better than a 2015 much improved 20mp ones made by the same company.

You're talking about Apple's "perfect" QC based on your anecdotal experience of having owned a few. And we all know that if you had any issues with your iPhone, you wouldn't be telling us. Because that's what Apple fanboys do.

"You're trashing anything not made by Apple. That much is obvious."

You're lying (or just trolling). I only stated Apple's sweep pano implementation is much superior to that of Samsung, let alone the cr@ppiest of all, Sony. I did NOT state Apple's implementation of other aspects of smartphone photography is much better. Not in the least. Please cite from me anything that proves the opposite.

"And further the incredible lies spread by the Apple propaganda, according to which a 2012 Sony chip is better than a 2015 much improved 20mp ones made by the same company."

Are you REALLY this dumb? Based on your user profile, you own tons of regular cameras (even high-end ones) so I really don't think you don't understand the importance of glass and software. Again, you can put the best sensor in any camera if you put lousy glass in front of it and process the sensor's output in a way that completely eradicates fine detail and introduces strong oversharpening halos.

"And we all know that if you had any issues with your iPhone, you wouldn't be telling us."

Actually, as opposed to the very strongly pro-Apple American media (show me a clearly anti-Apple article on Gizmodo on Engadget, please!), I've very frequently posted absolutely negative posts / articles about Apple. For example, I've very frequently mocked their swelling batteries, overpriced-but-not-built-to-last cables, the absolutely bad HDMI / VGA output over their new Lightning connector, the absolutely ridiculous upgrade policy with some OS upgrades (e.g., the iPhone4's iOS7.x, the iPhone 3G's iOS 4.x etc.) making existing phones practically paperweights etc.

Show me any American mag that frequently posts negative stuff about Apple! You won't, I'm absolutely sure. I do.

Menneisyys is from Finland.
He doesn't lie.
He doesn't troll.
It's in the genes of the Finns!
Please stop misreading him.

This debate is so pointless
that I'd put you BOTH away for a week to think
if ONLY I had the power.
AND
I do NOT agree on everything with Menneisyys
plus I think iOS is outdated and inferior

I have Lumia & Samsung phones
(and about a dozen feature phones+old&smart)

It's hard arguing what was presented by GSMArena, where the Note 4 pano's show more detail except for shadows for the same scene and similar amounts of errors (very few). Ignoring the usual yellow veil covering all iPhone 6 (plus) photos and videos.
Your findings aren't going to magically change that.

Eample:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/10zd3ye.jpg

Now granted, one is oversharpened and the other needs more sharpening, but once you start adding sharpening to the iPhone 6 Plus pano, it falls apart long before it reaches similar levels of detail of the same objects, despite the slightly longer FL of the lens.

I'll answer rather soon. I've decided to post a lot of comparative panos shot in full synchronization (the devices shot exactly the same image every time) between my iPhones / iPads and Note4 to prove my point.

"He doesn't lie.
He doesn't troll." - would you say that about him if you read that he is negatively criticizing a product that he's never used and when there are people who disagree he gives them shameful names?

Judging by the shadows, these were shot at the same time too and with no clouds in the sky, there's nothing left to be proven really (besides, why would we want to look at tablet output anyway, this is about phones and this is the current top model from Apple):
http://i57.tinypic.com/2qweno7.jpg

Leading to the conclusion that "can't hold a candle to the Apple pano's" is a wild exaggeration.

"Leading to the conclusion that "can't hold a candle to the Apple pano's" is a wild exaggeration."

This pano has just been posted to XDA:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=59092856&postcount=364

It exposes the usual problems with the Note4 panos (apart from the watercoloring and oversharpening, in which, as you've also admitted, the iPhone is better): significantly worse stitching quality than those of iDevices. Just zoom into the leftmost about 30% of the pano, with the railing in the background - you'll see a lot of (minor, but still existing) stitching errors. This is what you won't see in an iDevice pano.

I've started working on my article comparing the Note4 to Apple's implementation of sweep pano.

I stand by what I said: the Note4 has *significantly* worse stitching quality / reliability than any of Apple's pano-capable models.

" I only called iSheep people that *militantly* defend Apple in every way they can." - what's your definition of "militantly"? suffice to say that in the other thread, other people were consistently telling you that opinions weren't defending "Apple in every way they can" as you put it.

"you can safely state ANY pen-based product sucks on the iPad without even trying it." - but that's not what you said. you said "DPR shouldn't even dedicate front-page articles to such junk."

"Anyone that states an iPad is capable of as precise input as a Wacom / nTrig tablet" - and exactly who said this?

""you can safely state ANY pen-based product sucks on the iPad without even trying it." - but that's not what you said. you said "DPR shouldn't even dedicate front-page articles to such junk.""

Indeed they shouldn't. There are MUCH more interesting and *serious* subjects out there, looking for the DPR staff to report / publish reviews / tutorials on. Anything iPad & pen-based is simply not worth publishing as, again, anyone seriously into tablet pen-based input won't bother with the iPad. This app (just like with any other pen apps on the iPad) a very expensive but still, compared to the active input methods, pretty much useless toy. This is why consider it a waste of time and energy to even bother with publishing articles on anything iPad + pen.

"Indeed they shouldn't." - is it rational to think that you can decide how to do DPR staff's job?

"Anything iPad & pen-based is simply not worth publishing as, again, anyone seriously into tablet pen-based input won't bother with the iPad." - you're the spokesperson for every serious pen user now?

"compared to the active input methods, pretty much useless toy"
- can you say how long you tried the astropad before you "compared" that it is useless to active input methods?

"can you say how long you tried the astropad before you "compared" that it is useless to active input methods?"

I indeed haven't tried it. However, I've tested several also-"revolutionary" pen solutions on the iPad before. NONE of them worked properly. One must be a masochist to try to make them work instead of just getting a Wacom/nTrig-enabled tablet, even if only for some sporadic use. (Generally, I only use my TC1100 for pen-based drawing and iPads for everything else.)

" is it rational to think that you can decide how to do DPR staff's job?"

I find it pretty much useless to report on anything iPad + pen input. There are a LOT more interesting subjects for us mobile and/or tablet users. For example, reviews of new flagship devices like the Note4 (or, in this case, the Z3).

"There are a LOT more interesting subjects for us mobile and/or tablet users." - now you believe yourself to be the spokesperson for mobile users in connect and that everyone shares the same opinions as you do

"I indeed haven't tried it. However, I've tested several also-"revolutionary" pen solutions on the iPad before." - by your logic, you can evaluate every new product based on the performance of past ones

"by your logic, you can evaluate every new product based on the performance of past ones"

Again: you can't expect miracles from a, by default, flawed technology. ANYTHING pen-based is bound to be cr@ppy compared to active solutions.

"now you believe yourself to be the spokesperson for mobile users in connect and that everyone shares the same opinions as you do"

Look, I bet the vast majority of Connect users are far more interested in, say, new reviews of flagship cameraphones or tips-and-tricks articles of new *real* photography apps (like for example "Photo Mate R2" on Android), than an article on a new but, because of the underlying technology, bound-to-fail "revolutionary" pen technology.

"It exposes the usual problems with the Note4 panos (apart from the watercoloring and oversharpening, in which, as you've also admitted, the iPhone is better):"

That's not a comparison, that's a singled out example. I can post iPhone 6 (plus) panos too with stitching errors and faults. That tells us exactly nothing in relative terms. And I didn't admit that the iPhone does better at the things mentioned at all, that would be a fallacy or bad reading on your end. I specifically stated that the Note 4 oversharpens and the iPhone 6 understharpens. But I also said that the iPhone still comes with more artifacts, which becomes apparent when you do add sharpening. The watercolor effect is actually much more prominent in iPhone samples of the same size, which in part explains the above problems when you start sharpening.

This is another direct comparison where the Note 4 wins:
http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Camera-comparison-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4-vs-iPhone-6-iPhone-6-Plus-Sony-Xperia-Z3-LG-G3-Galaxy-S5-Galaxy-Note-3_id3822/page/5
Notice the paintery watercolor effect in the iPhone pano (similar to its regular pictures) and less usable detail. Similarly low in stitching errors.

And here's some iPhone 6 panto's with clear stitching errors both on the left (brick wall) and right side (frames around glass):
http://i.imgur.com/WsDmr.jpg
Or this, even at this small size there are tons of errors visible in the metal fences, etc.:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rt425/15218947890/sizes/k/

"That's not a comparison, that's a singled out example. I can post iPhone 6 (plus) panos too with stitching errors and faults."

Sure, iDevices make stitching errors too. It's just that those errors are a bit more apparent in the Note4 shots.

I've made tons of synchronized tests between various iDevices (except for the 5s/6/6+) and Note4's. The Note4 does exhibit more stitching errors, mostly because of the significantly lower sampling frequency it uses. (When shooting *sweep* panos, the higher sensor sampling frequency, the better.) And it can't outresolve even the old iPhone5, which otherwise produces significantly less-resolution images but the pixel-level detail is about the same as with the Note4.

"so you are willing to box out a minority of users. you've made it clear that you have closed your mind on a product based on your past experiences with other ones that you classify as similar."

Look, I've seen so many iPad pen ads stating "the first only and REAL input solution for your iPad" that I'm overly skeptic and only laugh when someone state the iPad is an excellent pen input device. And, again, the underlying tech just doesn't allow for precise input.

"I'm overly skeptic and only laugh when someone state the iPad is an excellent pen input device."

- no, the discussion was not about what you thought of what is said in the article. pay attention:

1) you avoid what you previously claimed - that there was a so-called 'militant' 'iSheep' who stated that an iPad solution is equal to a Wacom/nTrig one.
but you can't pinpoint who it was.

2) you've completely missed the point that you're judging a product you've never ever tried.
how do you know that it is very similar to previous things you've used? you don't. you just can't admit that it's only your preconceived notion, it has no weight except to showcase your prior disappointments.

it may be completely true that the product is indeed the same as other ipad solutions and nowhere near a wacom, but unless you have evidenced it for yourself, that isn't an evaluation you can honestly make.

3) you sound just like every DSLR and P&S elitist bashing reviews of phones that they have no intention of ever using, who think that because of what they own they are entitled to tell DPR what should qualify to be reviewed or not, as if the site caters only to their demographic. they pathetically insist on griping ad infinitum on the very narrow point that phone cameras will never reach the same level as P&S or DSLRs, but always ignore the fact that reaching the measurements of DSLRs was never a goal for phone users and that what a phone can deliver was good enough to meet their needs.

except in your case it's not DSLRs and phones, it's Wacoms and iPads. you're so blinded by your own position that you can't even consider the possibility that there might be someone that who may decide that a non-Wacom device can be competent enough for the price.