Sony Xperia Z3 camera review

Almost everything is better than more than a decade old P&S.

We are "complaining" because the Z3 clearly has lens QC issues and also lacks some, as of early 2015, essential features like OIS.

Mar 4, 2015permalink

Lassoni

4k = automatic win

Mar 4, 2015permalink

Lesly Carrillo

Great :)

Mar 18, 2015permalink

mrkarisma

Sorry my bad.. looks like something came up today.. like 20 hours too late.. Nice work dpreview!

Mar 3, 2015permalink

mrkarisma

Hm.. not even a note about the the galaxy s6 / S6 Edge on this whole site... Something is seriously wrong with the people behind this site..

Mar 3, 2015permalink

mateo goodman

I dropped my less than 1 week old Z3. I blame myself for this. But this phone got buttons all ariund the edge of the phone. I was tiing a photo, in trying to avoid touching any buttons on my he edge, i dropped the phone 3 ft height, the screen cracked. Sent to Sony for repair. Sony reurned the phone with h a note: "cannot be repaired to within asony quality standars.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

so your point is that the warranty on your Z3 only covers repairs and not replacements?

Feb 28, 2015permalink

EthanP99

Theres only 3 buttons on the phone, just like any other phone. Power, volume, camera. A drop from 3 ft would not destroy a z3.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

sorry to hear you dropped your phone but the Z3 has exactly the same number of buttons as the vast majority of Android phones. I actually think it is one of the better phones to hold when using as a camera, simply because it is so boxy. I am not sure what it means that it cannot be repaired to Sony standards but I am sure you find an independent repair shop that is happy to replace the screen for you, or even do it yourself with a screen from ebay. That's probably the most cost effective solution and there are usually how-to videos available on youtube.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

dgagne71

Didn't even drop mine...was in my hoodie pocket with case and screen protector. They used cheap glass and they know it.

Mar 23, 2015permalink

SwedishPhoto

The Z3 is known to get cracked backs without doing anything to it. Probably due to tension. I know two people personally that had this happen, and i've read tons about others having the exact same issue. Some gets it fixed on warranty but many do not, it seems.

Apr 1, 2015permalink

Do any of these phone cameras now matter since the Panasonic CM1 is here.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

you assume the CM1 is being sold at a price everyone is willing to spend for

Feb 28, 2015permalink

The CM1 is more of a camera with a built-in phone rather than the other way around. It's a great camera but I am not sure I wanted it as my everyday phone.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

"Do any of these phone cameras now matter since the Panasonic CM1 is here."

The CM1 is vastly(!) overpriced and, in many regards, underspecced, compared to the currently best phone cameras - for example, it can't shoot 4K video at 30 fps, doesn't have OIS etc. And I haven't even talked about the slightly underspecced phone hardware and the size.

That is, currently, it's not really an alternative to the likes of Note4 as a generic phone, unless you absolutely need the best IQ and don't want OIS / 4K.

Mar 1, 2015permalink

bigley Ling

Why is the CM1 not suited as an everyday phone? Is the phone spec really that bad? or is it just too thick?

Mar 2, 2015permalink

he said it's not suited as an everyday phone for him, because everyone has preferences. there may be some who will tolerate or even appreciate the cm1 as an everyday phone.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

"Why is the CM1 not suited as an everyday phone? Is the phone spec really that bad? or is it just too thick?"

Well, if I have to choose between the Note4 and the CM1, I'd go for the former. It has better overall hardware (including Lollipop support) and has, *for me*, a much more useful (albeit, of course, lower-quality) camera: 4K, OIS, dual camera. (If I know I'd take quality shots, I take my Fuji X-E1 with me. And I also have my 808 with me all the time in offline mode.)

Hope the CM2 will have proper 4K, Xenon and OIS. With high-end phone hardware (Qi, huge RAM, large-res screen etc.)

Mar 2, 2015*permalink

Well, some of us carry a camera AND a phone everywhere. So, no matter how large the CM1 is, it MUST be smaller than carrying two devices. And from what I have seen, the CM1 is at least as good as other current 1" system cameras - which is to say - pretty freaking good - and much much better than your average cell phone camera.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

Yup, the CM1, as I've also pointed out above, has excellent IQ. It's another question the entire device is half-baked and I in no way would purchase it today. 4K video at 15 fps? (I love shooting 4K videos on my Note4.) No OIS (a must for video)? Not exactly top-end phone hardware (as opposed to the Note4)? Thanks, but no thanks, particularly not for 900 euros.

Hope the next iteration will be better. Up until then, I stick with the Note4 + 808 (+ X-E1) duo/trio. While neither the Note4 nor the 808 can achieve the stills IQ of the CM1, in video (4K) and features like dual camera (which I just love), the Note4 is clearly better. And the Fuji X-E1, with the 18-55 kit zoom, takes orders of magnitude better images, while still pretty much portable & compact, than the CM1 so I don't feel I lose much.

Mar 2, 2015*permalink

Well, I guess the CM1 can't be all things to all people. Not sure how the hardware is "half-baked", but the camera certainly isn't. And yeah, the CM1 will never beat a dedicated camera in IQ - well maybe some of the small cheap ones, but anything with a larger sensor - no. But, for people more into photography than smart phones, this one solves the problem of the crappy camera in most phones (well all phones until now).

Mar 2, 2015permalink

"Not sure how the hardware is "half-baked", but the camera certainly isn't. "

4K video at 15 fps - an immediate dealbreaker for me. (The Note3 could shoot 4K at 30 fps even 1.5 years ago...) And the lack of OIS is also a big problem.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

4k vid - on a 1/2.3" sensor - no thanks. I would rather have just HD video on a 1" sensor that has much better optical properties and sensor performance.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

Well, actually, the 16 (20) -> 8 Mpixel downsampling itself helps circumventing the issues of the not tack sharp smartphone lenses with both the Note4 and any other smartphone. For example, the 41 Mpixel Nokia 808 has a pretty soft lens on the pixel level. Downsampled the image to, say, 8 or 12 Mpixels, they are tack sharp. (Of course, the 808 was just an example of still downsampling, as it can't shoot 4K video.)

And yes, the Note4, as with its predecessor, can shoot extremely sharp video. Even DPR themselves praised the IQ of the Note3's 4K mode back in 2013.

Finally, smartphones generally don't suffer from aliasing / moire in their video mode. Not so with larger-sensor cameras. My Fuji X-E1 (or, for that matter, any Fuji X system camera, except for the Bayer-sensored, bargain A1) shoots awful video and even the 2010 iPhone4's footage is much better, let alone newer flagships.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

And the 4K recording of the Note4, paired with the pretty nice OIS, is excellent. (Apart from the microphone, which is a far cry away from those of the 808 WRT high-volume recording.) Last time, I shot some university ceremony for a friend with the Note4 (it wasn't a commercial assignment so shooting with the Note4 wasn't a problem). My friend was astonished at being able to actually zoom in the footage during playback and still having excellent detail level. Unlike with Full HD footage, naturally.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

well, downsampling and sharpening are no substitute for good optics. I have seen two comparisons between the 808 and the CM1 - the CM1 is clearly a sharper instrument. That may not be so important for video - but - the CM1 sensor also clearly had more dynamic range than the 808 - and that should be important to video people.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

Yup, DR is important. But 15 fps at 4K is just insufficient. I'd far more go for the 4Kp30 Note4 than the (significantly more expensive and, WRT its phone hardware, less-specced and OIS-less) 4Kp15 CM1. The 4K mode of the Note4 is more than sufficient for social and other not-that-demanding shots, particularly if you use third-party apps to avoid any kind of excess noise reduction / oversharpening and shoot at 48 (non-rooted) / 200 (rooted & hacked) Mbps.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

Well, I guess everyone is willing to make different compromises. It is great that there are choices. I am not so concerned about video, stills are more important to me. And I also do not care about having the latest and greatest smart phone hardware. So if a "less-specced" phone provided a better phone camera - that would be fine by me.

Mar 3, 2015permalink

dpfan32

The whole right side of the image is totally blurry on the 8MP samples WTF!

Feb 27, 2015permalink

The Name is Bond

Must be faulty. Should have reviewed a replacement. Come on, dpreview.

Mar 24, 2015permalink

dpfan32

2 years ago they reviewed a Lumia 925 with blurry spot in the middle of the frame. Exactly the same problem I had on my Lumia 925. It's pretty difficult to find a perfect unit IMHO. The only phones with good lenses I had were the 808 and the 1020

Mar 26, 2015permalink

Camera review? Surely this is a phone review that is focused on the image capture function? I have no beef with the device but it ain't a camera, at best an electronic and very capable Swiss army knife.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

it is a phone that has a camera built in and we are reviewing the features and functions of that camera.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"it ain't a camera, at best an electronic and very capable Swiss army knife."
- is it so hard to read the first sentence? "Connect smartphone reviews are written with the needs of photographers in mind. We focus on camera features, performance and image quality."

Feb 27, 2015permalink

Juandante

It is the same as reviewing a good old P&S, the only thing that bugs you is the fact that we can call with this device.

Feb 28, 2015permalink

As previously stated I have no beef with the device, I don't have an issue that you can make a call with it. I respect your view that it is like reviewing a point and shoot. I don't agree that they are the same thing. A P&S can't surf the net, receive emails and make calls and a plethora of other things. I don't like mobile phones myself, mostly because of the socially negative impact they have. For example, phone zombies walking into you in the street because they are using their phones and are insensible to the world about them, couples taking their mobiles out and not each other to dinner or to the pub, people texting in meetings, dis-attending to a speakers while texting, or using in school/college classes, while driving causing accidents and deaths. Mobile phones suck from my point of view. I suspect I have a minority view point on this but this technology is more socially regressive than progressive.

Mar 1, 2015permalink

"I suspect I have a minority view point on this but this technology is more socially regressive than progressive."
- but that wasn't in your original statement. you said "...but it ain't a camera..." which has nothing to do with the subject of phones being socially regressive technology. you're just changing the topic.

Mar 1, 2015permalink

Yes you are right, I have added another element to the discussion, but not without first setting out why I think there is a difference between cameras and mobile phones with an image capturing function. I find it sinister that this function has more profile than the erratic networks the suppliers use, more holes than a Swiss cheese with poor reception and signal drop offs. Perhaps putting a sweetie in the bag for consumers is another way of justifying the ridiculous tarrifs folks are charged for a mediocre phone service. Call it a camera and you have the illusion of added value, except it's not a camera. The Sony R100 series for example is a camera and pocketable and takes better photographs than any current phone.

Mar 2, 2015*permalink

then you don't understand why Connect is a mobile photography site. it does not review cameras, and you need to comprehend that first sentence.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

Thanks w50, I do understand, the review is titled "Sony Xperia camera review". Perhaps I am being pedantic about the use of the word camera.

Mar 2, 2015permalink

My Sony Xperia Z3v has image stabilization as an option in manual mode in settings and it works quite well. I have seen the specs for the Z3 and it does too. Are you sure you got this right, DPR?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

Many other reviews state lack of image stabilization and DPR lists it as a con here. It's there, so please don't copy and paste from other reviews.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

Copy and paste? The Z3 has digital image stabilization. What I have listed as a con is the lack of optical stabilization which is way more efficient and the Z3 definitely does not have.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

Lars, I see the difference now. Sorry

Feb 27, 2015permalink

MediaDigitalVideo

Nice 4K Video but what about the quality of audio ? Separate audio recording with ext. pro mic's + digital audiorecorder and edit it together or make 4K Movies and remove/don't use the org. audio and use background sound in editing ?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

Peiasdf

How old is this review?

"With a DxOMark Mobile score of 79 the Sony Xperia Z3 takes the number two spot in the DxOMark smartphone rankings, placing itself just behind the Samsung Galaxy S5 and in front of its own predecessor, the Xperia Z2."

DxOMark have iPhone 6 and 6+ at the top of smartphone chart since Sep 23, 2014.

As for Z3, I don't understand how SONY keep screwing up its mobile division. Z have bad screen, Z1 have ok screen yet still the non-removable film. Z2 and Z3 are a lot better but camera still far behind Apple and Samsung which uses SONY sensor.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

""With a DxOMark Mobile score of 79 the Sony Xperia Z3 takes the number two spot in the DxOMark smartphone rankings, placing itself just behind the Samsung Galaxy S5 and in front of its own predecessor, the Xperia Z2.""

This exactly shows why noone should take DxO seriously at least WRT mobile phones. This review itself proves the Z3 has pretty mediocre image quality and absolutely awful lens QC.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

apologies, my mistake, this is corrected now. The DxOMark report was first published as a stand-alone article before the iPhones were tested. As we usually do I have now integrated into our full review.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

This has turned into a Menneisyys Note4 cult show. Give us all a break on your favorite device. The Z3, Z3C and Z3v are excellent devices with hi res music, two day battery life and features that don't stop in a beautiful package with an excellent camera. Can you say waterproof too?

Feb 27, 2015permalink

PVCdroid, lolz, in the long thread below, "Papi61" called me an Apple iSheep because I've been stating all sweep pano-capable iDevices have better-quality panorama output than the Note4. Am I a Note4 fanboy, after all?

"excellent [Z3] camera"

Well, the review above proves the opposite. And not only because of the massive noise reduction and oversharpening. Can you say lens QC issues?

And I haven't even mentioned the lack of OIS - something the Note4 is *massively* better at.

"Can you say waterproof too?"

Theoretically. Too bad a large number of poor Z3 owners can *prove* the phone isn't really waterproof either.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

Get off your high horse and your phone that hasn't been rated. A 79 rating only bested by one phone makes it damn good despite the hatchet job here. I've had enough Samsung's to know this camera does very well for a smartphone. I've caught several trolls like you with phony stories on water leaks. The IP68 rating is from an independent agency. The underwater photography feature of this phone makes it a nice complement to my photography gear. I've used it in water several times. You should give your Note 4 a try underwater, today would be best.

You are obsessed and turning this into more than a great camera on a great phone with great battery life, the Z3 line. I'll say additionally that trolls like you have become a significant problem creating too many to overlook good phone products because you believe God himself has placed you on earth to convince others what to buy. These are magical devices compared to five years ago and it's more about what flavor and design people want. I never wanted a Note. Thanks anyway.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"Get off your high horse and your phone that hasn't been rated."

Among others, Fuji X-Trans MILC cameras haven't been tested by DxO either (and likely will never be). Does this mean they're cr@ppy? Of course not.

"A 79 rating only bested by one phone makes it damn good despite the hatchet job here."

DxO's ratings have sometimes nothing to do with reality. For example, they don't at all reflect sample variance; in this case, major lens decentering issues. Not only on the Z3, but, as has been stated by other owners, previous Z-series flagships too (for example, the Z2).

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"You are obsessed and turning this into more than a great camera on a great phone with great battery life, the Z3 line. I'll say additionally that trolls like you have become a significant problem creating too many to overlook good phone products because you believe God himself has placed you on earth to convince others what to buy. "

I'm afraid it was YOU that act like a blind fanboy. You for example state the Z3 is waterproof. Too bad it's only theoretically waterproof and, after reading user reports, no sane person would take the Z3 in the bath with him/her.

Unlike your continuous praising your Z3, I did emphasize the BAD sides of the Note4. In this very comment section, I has even been constantly attacked by a member called "Papi61", who called me a blind Apple fanboy for stating Apple's iDevices have a better pano stitching algorithm than the Note4. Yeah, sure I'm a blind Samsung fanboy....

Feb 27, 2015permalink

sebastian huvenaars

I knew about red eye correction, but nose reduction?! ;)

Feb 25, 2015permalink

SammyToronto

It's a new, useful feature to be used for people with abnormally large noses.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

if you've been a Dpreview reader for a long time you will know that this not my first "nose gate"....I'll go and find this error now and correct it :)

Feb 25, 2015permalink

AksCT

how is Z3 camera compared Galaxy Note4?

Feb 25, 2015permalink

The Note4 doesn't seem to suffer from lens QC issues. Its lens is consistently good (at least I haven't seen any Note4 with a decentered lens.)

Also, it's possible to access the camera hardware on the Note4 (on ones based on the Snapdragon 805 CPU), which allows for almost-RAW images. It's unknown whether this is possible on Z3's - I have no specific information on the latter. Assuming it's not possible on the Sony, the Note4 gains a HUUUUGE advantage.

Finally, the pano mode of the Note4 is *much* better than that of the Z3. (Nevertheless, it's still significantly worse than that of any iPhones or iPads. See my debate with Papi61 at the very bottom of this page. You really won't want to use the Note4 for sweep pano shooting.)

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

AksCT

Thanks for detailed response. I have not compared my Note4 with other phones, but compared to my Nikon DSLR, Note4 still image quality is outstanding (video quality, at 1080p and 4K, is excellent).

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Zapirian

Own this phone, will be interesting to see how the images can be edited with Android 5 which should be released for this phone very shortly (probably start of March). Will allow for RAW capture which might improve matters considerably.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Note that not all Lollipop devices get RAW access. For that matter, very few of them; for example, none of Samsung's handsets. Currently, it's unknown whether Sony does include RAW support in their Lollipop upgrade.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Zapirian

Thanks for that info Menneisyys. Fingers crossed they do grant it.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

ArmorKing12

Please quit it both of you. This is not GSMArena. Brag about android or apple or superiority there. We discuss photgraphy here.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Michael Ma

Good technology ruined by too many megapixels.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

The megapixels themselves wouldn't be THAT big a problem. Let me point out that the Samsung Note 4 "only" has four megapixels less; still, it produces, with some third-party apps, absolutely fabolous images. Not beating the Nokia 808, not even the 1020, but clearly more detailed, less smeared etc. on the pixel level than iPhones in stills mode - or, for that matter, any Sony phones.

The Achilles' heel of this phone seems to be the lens with its very bad QC. And, as always with all 20 Mpixel Sony smartphones, the very strong in-camera noise reduction & oversharpening.

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

Michael Ma

Menneisyys, I concur. I own a Note 4. It's has the best smartphone camera right now. the lens is a big factor for the Z3. The Note 4 is better than iPhone 6 Plus in my opinion. It's a pity that DxO has explicitly decided to not review this phone. Why did they make this decision so early and why the reason to stand so firm with this decision? I just don't get it.

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

"It's a pity that DxO has explicitly decided to not review this phone. Why did they make this decision so early and why the reason to stand so firm with this decision?"

Did they explicitly declare they won't review the phone?

Feb 25, 2015permalink

If it is any consolation I will try and review it before the new MWC models become available. Note 4 was only launched at IFA, so it is still fairly new.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"If it is any consolation I will try and review it before the new MWC models become available. Note 4 was only launched at IFA, so it is still fairly new."

Just remember not to base your evaluation on the output of the stock Camera app. The Note4 is so much more capable of when using with an app capable of "tapping in" to the imaging pipeline before the unnecessarily strong noise reduction and oversharpening. (Regrettably, this is only possible on Snapdragon 805-based devices, and only via the app "Snap camera HDR". Also see my full articles posted to the Android subforum here at DPR, where I've elaborated on different aspects of the Note4 pretty thoroughly.) Then, the Note4 shines.

This also applies to the video mode of the stock Camera app, which also suffers from the noise reduction & oversharpening, meaning third-party apps are capable of producing much better results.

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

Michael Ma

Thanks Lars Rehm! Looking forward to it.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

@Menneisyys you've mentioned this before but I won't promise anything in this respect. In terms of testing we have to draw the line somewhere and if I tested all phones with several camera apps we'd probably publish one smartphone review per year :)

Feb 26, 2015permalink

"if I tested all phones with several camera apps we'd probably publish one smartphone review per year :)"

Currently, according to my comparative tests (I've tested all major Android photo apps on the Note4 - FV-5, OpenCamera, Google Camera etc.) it's only "Snap camera HDR" that is capable of circumventing the noise reduction and oversharpening. The almost-RAW images it's able of exporting (assuming you completely disable the pretty bad in-app sharpening and don't enable the, by default, disabled noise reduction, which is also pretty bad) are of much higher quality than those saved by the stock Camera app.

Given that, currently, the Note4 is the Android flagship and a lot of people would like to know what it's capable of and how it compares to the iPhone / WP phones, I think it indeed deserves some special treatment :)

Feb 26, 2015permalink

Ok, also just got the news that we will have DxO data for the Note 4 soon, hopefully by the end of next week.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

Paul_B Midlands UK

Pretty handy review, since the Z4 model is supposedly launching next month.
"Strong blurring of detail through nose reduction (nose reduction - that's a UNIQUE one) across the ISO range"

Feb 24, 2015*permalink

Sony replaces their top-end model every 6 months, so between getting your hands on a review model and producing a meaningful review you inevitably get close to the launch date of the successor. However, even if the Z4 is being launched next month, that doesn't mean it'll actually be available in the shops straightaway. In any case the Z3 will be available for quite some time longer.

Feb 24, 2015permalink

Pretty mediocre as a smartphone camera. (Not to mention as a phone, particularly with the unsettling news of Sony's probably selling off their entire smartphone business, meaning a definite end of any official future firmware upgrades. Not that previous Sony models received that many upgrades...)

In addition to the usual stuff (bad oversharpening, watercoloring via the, at least in broad daylight, unnecessarily strong noise reduction), Sony really should improve their sweep pano mode. Heck, even Samsung's implementation is way better, which, in turn, can't hold a candle to that of Apple. And the decentered lens and bad front camera (the latter being particularly important in dual-camera modes (here: "Face In"), which I *love* on the Note4 and use a LOT for social shots)....

Feb 24, 2015*permalink

BTW, the article doesn't elaborate on this: is there any way to have access to the image pipeline to access the image before the noise reduction? As it's a Snapdragon-based device, this might be possible via apps like "Snap camera HDR" even under KitKat.

I personally wouldn't bother with the OOC images of this phone (or, for that matter, that of my Samsung Note 4) - with RAW-like images, however, the situation is entirely different. On the Samsung Note 4, "Snap camera HDR", when properly configured to save almost-RAW images (see http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/shooting-light-best-image-quality-note-4-t3012008 ) and you are ready to invest some time in strictly desktop-based post processing you can get significantly better final images than with the stock Camera app.

Feb 24, 2015permalink

" which, in turn, can't hold a candle to that of Apple"

Not so sure of that. GSMArena compared the Note 4 and iPhone 6 plus in this regard and the Note 4 came out with better detail (also higher total MP count) and more accurate colors, similar amount of stitching errors (very little for both), the iPhone 6 plus has slightly better dynamic lighting control over a wide scene.

All in all pretty comparable, with benefits either way, depending on your demands.

Feb 24, 2015permalink

I've very thoroughly compared the Note4 to the iPhone5 and the Air2. (The two of which shoots somewhat worse pano than the iPhone6+ because of the smaller sensor and, with the iPhone5, the fixed exppsure.) The iPhone5 / Air2 are *significantly* better in everything, particularly stitching. But even 1:1 per-pixel detail level is significantly better on the Apple shots (both the Air2 and the iPhone5, let alone the iPhone6(+)), even if you take into account that the iPhone5 has significantly lower-res panos. (But still outdoes the Note4.) I'll some day publish an article on all my findings.

BTW, I wouldn't always believe what GSMArena states. For example, their Note4 vs. iPhone6(+) comparison has some *major* factual errors showing the authors don't really understand photography. See my article on HDR shooting on the Note4 at http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55091339 for more info (search for "GSMarena" to quickly find the given part of the article.)

Feb 24, 2015permalink

The iPhone 6 uses a 2012 Sony chip. Which is the same now used by budget Android phones. The Note 4 uses a much improved and much more expensive 16mp chip from the same maker. It's funny how you believe the older chip is better. And guess what, it'll be the best in the world when Apple finally buys it at a tremendous discount because meanwhile Sony has released something better, which will be featured in the best Android phones.

It's no coincidence that while the iPhone 6 is the most expensive phone, it's actually the least expensive to build, because it largely uses obsolete technology. That explains Apple's ridiculously huge profits. But then again, Apple customers are easy to fool, just tell them that everything in the iPhone is the best and they'll believe it...

I guess you only trust the phony reviews you read in Apple Cult or Apple-paid publications...

Feb 24, 2015permalink

"Pretty mediocre as a smartphone camera."

LOL, yeah, right. In the reality distortion field, Sony's 2012 8mp camera chip (which is what Apple uses) is much worse than Sony's 2015 20mp camera chip.

Let me guess, this chip will be the best in the world as soon as Apple buys it at a bargain price because it's obsolete...

Priceless.

Feb 24, 2015permalink

The iPhone 6 might use an old sensor (I am actually not sure if this is true) but they certainly get very good IQ out of it and that's what counts. Most (but not all) of the higher res sensors in Android and Windows phones are not capable of resolving better detail than the 8MP sensor in the Apple.

Feb 24, 2015permalink

"The iPhone 6 uses a 2012 Sony chip. Which is the same now used by budget Android phones. The Note 4 uses a much improved and much more expensive 16mp chip from the same maker. It's funny how you believe the older chip is better."

*Yawn*

Please DO read my articles on achieving the best possible image quality with Note4 camera before posting such clueless feedback.

1, in the several articles I've published, I've often emphasized the Note4 produces better overall IQ than any iPhone (incl. the latest ones), assuming you do use almost-RAW saving (instead of the stock, absolutely bad Camera app)

2, I've also emphasized several times the Note4 has some essential features simply not possible/available on any iPhones (4K video, stereo audio, dual camera mode etc. - these features I very frequently use on my Note4 too.)

3, in my comments above, I *only* spoke of sweep panos and nothing else. In sweep panos, the Note4 is *significantly* worse than any iPhone / iPad.

Feb 24, 2015*permalink

"LOL, yeah, right. In the reality distortion field, Sony's 2012 8mp camera chip (which is what Apple uses) is much worse than Sony's 2015 20mp camera chip."

Man, check out these images in the article. While I'm not particularly fond of the camera in iPhones (again, I prefer the Note4 camera, shooting in semi-RAW mode and post processing on the desktop) apart from the sweep pano and the 240 fps slo-mo mode (both produce *significantly* better output than the Note4), I do need to state the iPhones have a *significantly* better lens-sensor combination than the Z3. If the lens softness (decentering?) issue is common with the Z3, then, it's practically useless for shooting. The generic softness on the right side is apparent even in the 8Mpixel superior auto mode, let alone the 20 Mpixel one. And after the very strong and detail-smearing noise reduction & sharpening. With near-RAW output, the results would be even more awful.

<cont'd below>

Feb 24, 2015permalink

Again, you're saying that Sony's 2012 8mp chip is better than Sony's 2015 20mp chip.

And to you it makes complete sense...

(facepalm)

Feb 24, 2015permalink

"Most (but not all) of the higher res sensors in Android and Windows phones are not capable of resolving better detail than the 8MP sensor in the Apple."

LOL at you parroting Apple's propaganda. Like I said, Apple gets away with buying obsolete technology at bargain prices precisely because their gullible customers can believe anything. Like a cheap 2012 8mp chip from Sony being better than a very expensive 20mp chip from the very same manufacturer.

Do you even know that there are several budget Android phones using the very same obsolete 8mp chip? Oh yeah, Apple, as usual, sprinkles magic dust on their old components and bam, instantly they become the best in the world...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

<cont'd from above>

It must be stressed again that the sensor is only part of the equation. Lens quality and software processing also have a VERY strong effect on the end results. And, based on this article,

- the lens quality has a lot to be desired (decentering / softness issues)

- the OOC JPEG's are awful WRT noise reduction smearing & oversharpening (just like with the Note4, I should add).

In these two areas, iPhones are definitely better. I've had *several* iPhones but have never seen one with a decentered / particularly soft lens. Their lens quality and QA are pretty consistent. The OOC JPEG's aren't oversharpened / (too much) smeared either - in this regard, the Note4 / the Z3 are significantly worse, too.

Let me point out again that, with the Snapdragon 805-based Note4 at least, you can save almost-RAW's, which result in way better quality than anything achievable with the stock Camera app (or the iPhone in standard stills mode, I'd add).

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"Again, you're saying that Sony's 2012 8mp chip is better than Sony's 2015 20mp chip.

And to you it makes complete sense...

(facepalm)"

Could you please at least try to understand what I say?

1, newer-tech sensor itself doesn't guarantee better image quality
2, the Z3 is certainly let down by

a, lens quality / QA issues (see DPR's review above)
b, the very strong noise reduction / oversharpening. This could only be fixed by saving images BEFORE applying the noise reduction / oversharpening - the way I advocate with Snap805-based Note4's.

These latter two bullets have a very strong (and adversary) effect on the Z3's output images.

Again, the sensor is just part of the equation. Lens quality and processing also have a HUGE effect on the overall quality.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"Could you please at least try to understand what I say?"

You're making ridiculous assumptions like Samsung having a worse quality control than Apple. Oh yeah, you've owned several iPhones, no doubt about it (I'm sure you wouldn't be caught dead using an Android...) But your anecdotal experience limited to a few phones doesn't mean that Apple has a perfect quality control. But hey, you know with absolute certainty that Samsung has a terrible QC and that's what you run with, real evidence be damned...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Again, the only reason you review Android phones is to unfairly compare them to the iPhone and then tear them apart. Like all "reviewers", you pick an absolutely insignificant detail where Apple has the upper hand and make it all about that. When Apple had the resolution advantage with their MBP's, it was ALL about resolution. Now that Apple is getting crushed by a slew of new Windows laptops with a 4K screen, all of a sudden resolution is meaningless, and it's all about battery life... My goodness, you people are soooooo predictable...

Don't worry, that's what most American tech "journalists" do. I'm sure you're well aware that your career would be over in a New York minute if you dared to tell the truth about Apple products...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"You're making ridiculous assumptions like Samsung having a worse quality control than Apple."

Nope. It's Sony that has terrible QC, at least when it comes to lens decentering issues. I've never stated Samsung has bad QC. WRT Samsung, I've "only" spoken of the, compared to Apple's implementation, significantly inferior sweep pano output quality but absolutely NOTHING else.

Again, please, VERY thoroughly read my posts before posting anything.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"It's Sony that has terrible QC"

LOL, sure. And, of course, when Apple buys components from Sony, all they have to do is sprinkle a little magic dust on top and voila', no more faulty parts...

P.S. Apple doesn't make lenses either. As a matter of fact, they don't actually make anything.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"Like all "reviewers", you pick an absolutely insignificant detail where Apple has the upper hand and make it all about that."

I bet I know 1000 times more about smartphone photogrphy than you. (And, for that matter, than the PhoneArena / GSM Arena folks.)

"I'm sure you're well aware that your career would be over in a New York minute if you dared to tell the truth about Apple products..."

You're referring to me? I'm in Europe, not in the US. And I only write articles for fun and for FREE, to help people. And no, I'm not on Apple's payroll. Otherwise, I wouldn't be publishing VERY-VERY long articles (did you even bother check them out? I seriously doubt it...) on getting the best possible image quality off the Samsung Note 4.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"LOL, sure. [referring to my stating Sony has trashy QC]"

Did you read DPR's review above? They clearly state the lens of their Z3 had *major* decentering (softness) issues. Which is definitely a QC issue.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"BTW, I wouldn't always believe what GSMArena states."

Yeah, everyone should just blindly believe you and your anecdotal evidence...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"They clearly state the lens of their Z3 had *major* decentering (softness) issues. Which is definitely a QC issue."

So? They got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...) Do you have any REAL evidence that every iPhone is perfect? I'm pretty sure that if you received a less-than-perfect iPhone for review you'd immediately notify Apple and ask for a better one. You know, one of those cherry picked for review...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"Yeah, everyone should just blindly believe you and your anecdotal evidence..."

Are you trolling?! What "anecdotal evidence" is in my Note 4 HDR article, where I've very clearly *proved* GSMArena's Note4 HDR-specific comments being completely wrong? Or, for that matter, anything unexplained?!

Here's the article link again (here at the DPR forums): http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55091339

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

"So? They got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...)"

Why should DPR talk to Apple when it's Sony's handset they're reviewing?!

"Do you have any REAL evidence that every iPhone is perfect? I'm pretty sure that if you received a less-than-perfect iPhone for review you'd immediately notify Apple and ask for a better one. You know, one of those cherry picked for review..."

1, I don't review hardware. US-based reviewers are far faster than I (remember, I'm in Europe, meaning receiving everything much later) and, also, my mother tongue isn't English, which makes it much harder for me to address laymen (non-geeks).

2, on the other hand, as I know both the Android and iOS operating systems like the palm of my hand, including hardware, I post tons of geek tips and articles. See for example my detailed Note4 photography series here in the DPR forums.

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

"Why should DPR talk to Apple when it's Sony's handset they're reviewing?!"

LOL, now who isn't reading whom? I said that DPR should have called Sony and notify them that they received a defective sample. And then I added that I'm 100% sure they would have done that if it were an Apple product.

Yes, of course, you are THE expert, and even people who do that for a living can't hold a candle to you, as you openly stated.

You should apply for a job at Apple, they're going to absolutely love your arrogance, as well as your devotion to the church...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"LOL, now who isn't reading whom? I said that DPR should have called Sony and notify them that they received a defective sample. And then I added that I'm 100% sure they would have done that if it were an Apple product."

I really think you're trolling. You've posted the following about an hour ago:

"So? They [DPR] got a bad sample and that's what they reviewed, instead of notifying Apple (not really ethical... But then again, it's all about glorifying Apple and trashing any competitor...)"

You clearly talked about DPR's notifying *Apple* (and ask for a better review unit), not *Sony*.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

Pretty obvious that I typed Apple by mistake. But then again, it's typical of trolls to harp on such insignificant minutia...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Galaxy-Note-4-dominates-our-blind-camera-comparison-beats-a-Canon-DSLR-and-the-iPhone-6-Plus_id66093

"Yes, of course, you are THE expert, and even people who do that for a living can't hold a candle to you, as you openly stated. "

Writing articles for a living doesn't necessarily mean being absolutely well versed in all related, covered topics. Not in the least. Have you seen the latest PhoneArena "blind test"? It has certainly shown the PA folks know absolutely nothing about photography.

And, regrettably, GSMArena's articles are also full of factual mistakes WRT photography.

And those are only two examples of journalists posting cr@p. I could continue the list with other publications...

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"Pretty obvious that I typed Apple by mistake. But then again, it's typical of trolls to harp on such insignificant minutia..."

It's you that's trolling, not me. You've been twisting my words ever since the beginning. For example, right at start, you stated I had been trashing Samsung when I had "only" talked about Sony's Z3.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

You're trashing anything not made by Apple. That much is obvious. And further the incredible lies spread by the Apple propaganda, according to which a 2012 Sony chip is better than a 2015 much improved 20mp ones made by the same company.

You're talking about Apple's "perfect" QC based on your anecdotal experience of having owned a few. And we all know that if you had any issues with your iPhone, you wouldn't be telling us. Because that's what Apple fanboys do.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"You're trashing anything not made by Apple. That much is obvious."

You're lying (or just trolling). I only stated Apple's sweep pano implementation is much superior to that of Samsung, let alone the cr@ppiest of all, Sony. I did NOT state Apple's implementation of other aspects of smartphone photography is much better. Not in the least. Please cite from me anything that proves the opposite.

"And further the incredible lies spread by the Apple propaganda, according to which a 2012 Sony chip is better than a 2015 much improved 20mp ones made by the same company."

Are you REALLY this dumb? Based on your user profile, you own tons of regular cameras (even high-end ones) so I really don't think you don't understand the importance of glass and software. Again, you can put the best sensor in any camera if you put lousy glass in front of it and process the sensor's output in a way that completely eradicates fine detail and introduces strong oversharpening halos.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"And we all know that if you had any issues with your iPhone, you wouldn't be telling us."

Actually, as opposed to the very strongly pro-Apple American media (show me a clearly anti-Apple article on Gizmodo on Engadget, please!), I've very frequently posted absolutely negative posts / articles about Apple. For example, I've very frequently mocked their swelling batteries, overpriced-but-not-built-to-last cables, the absolutely bad HDMI / VGA output over their new Lightning connector, the absolutely ridiculous upgrade policy with some OS upgrades (e.g., the iPhone4's iOS7.x, the iPhone 3G's iOS 4.x etc.) making existing phones practically paperweights etc.

Show me any American mag that frequently posts negative stuff about Apple! You won't, I'm absolutely sure. I do.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

CyberAngel

Menneisyys is from Finland.
He doesn't lie.
He doesn't troll.
It's in the genes of the Finns!
Please stop misreading him.

This debate is so pointless
that I'd put you BOTH away for a week to think
if ONLY I had the power.
AND
I do NOT agree on everything with Menneisyys
plus I think iOS is outdated and inferior

I have Lumia & Samsung phones
(and about a dozen feature phones+old&smart)

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"This debate is so pointless
that I'd put you BOTH away for a week to think
if ONLY I had the power."

Sorry, but I can't leave attacks on me unanswered. Papi61 has deliberately(?) misread my statements. I stated right from the beginning that it's the sweep panorama mode of all sweep pano-capable iDevices that I call better-implemented than those of both the Samsung Note4 and, of course, the Z3. (Also see what the DPR folks stated on the Z3's pano quality in the article.) I in no way called iDevices superior in every respect WRT smartphone photography.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

It's hard arguing what was presented by GSMArena, where the Note 4 pano's show more detail except for shadows for the same scene and similar amounts of errors (very few). Ignoring the usual yellow veil covering all iPhone 6 (plus) photos and videos.
Your findings aren't going to magically change that.

Feb 25, 2015*permalink

Eample:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/10zd3ye.jpg

Now granted, one is oversharpened and the other needs more sharpening, but once you start adding sharpening to the iPhone 6 Plus pano, it falls apart long before it reaches similar levels of detail of the same objects, despite the slightly longer FL of the lens.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

I'll answer rather soon. I've decided to post a lot of comparative panos shot in full synchronization (the devices shot exactly the same image every time) between my iPhones / iPads and Note4 to prove my point.

Feb 25, 2015permalink

"He doesn't lie.
He doesn't troll." - would you say that about him if you read that he is negatively criticizing a product that he's never used and when there are people who disagree he gives them shameful names?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

Judging by the shadows, these were shot at the same time too and with no clouds in the sky, there's nothing left to be proven really (besides, why would we want to look at tablet output anyway, this is about phones and this is the current top model from Apple):
http://i57.tinypic.com/2qweno7.jpg

Leading to the conclusion that "can't hold a candle to the Apple pano's" is a wild exaggeration.

Feb 26, 2015*permalink

" would you say that about him if you read that he is negatively criticizing a product that he's never used and when there are people who disagree he gives them shameful names?"

You're lying. In the other thread, I only called iSheep people that *militantly* defend Apple in every way they can. And yes, you can safely state ANY pen-based product sucks on the iPad without even trying it. It's a CAPACITIVE touchscreen. Anyone that states an iPad is capable of as precise input as a Wacom / nTrig tablet doesn't know what he's speaking about - or, as I've stated above, is a militant iSheep.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=59092856&postcount=364

"Leading to the conclusion that "can't hold a candle to the Apple pano's" is a wild exaggeration."

This pano has just been posted to XDA:

It exposes the usual problems with the Note4 panos (apart from the watercoloring and oversharpening, in which, as you've also admitted, the iPhone is better): significantly worse stitching quality than those of iDevices. Just zoom into the leftmost about 30% of the pano, with the railing in the background - you'll see a lot of (minor, but still existing) stitching errors. This is what you won't see in an iDevice pano.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

I've started working on my article comparing the Note4 to Apple's implementation of sweep pano.

I stand by what I said: the Note4 has *significantly* worse stitching quality / reliability than any of Apple's pano-capable models.

Feb 26, 2015*permalink

" I only called iSheep people that *militantly* defend Apple in every way they can." - what's your definition of "militantly"? suffice to say that in the other thread, other people were consistently telling you that opinions weren't defending "Apple in every way they can" as you put it.

Feb 26, 2015permalink

"you can safely state ANY pen-based product sucks on the iPad without even trying it." - but that's not what you said. you said "DPR shouldn't even dedicate front-page articles to such junk."

Feb 26, 2015permalink

"Anyone that states an iPad is capable of as precise input as a Wacom / nTrig tablet" - and exactly who said this?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

""you can safely state ANY pen-based product sucks on the iPad without even trying it." - but that's not what you said. you said "DPR shouldn't even dedicate front-page articles to such junk.""

Indeed they shouldn't. There are MUCH more interesting and *serious* subjects out there, looking for the DPR staff to report / publish reviews / tutorials on. Anything iPad & pen-based is simply not worth publishing as, again, anyone seriously into tablet pen-based input won't bother with the iPad. This app (just like with any other pen apps on the iPad) a very expensive but still, compared to the active input methods, pretty much useless toy. This is why consider it a waste of time and energy to even bother with publishing articles on anything iPad + pen.

Feb 26, 2015*permalink

"Indeed they shouldn't." - is it rational to think that you can decide how to do DPR staff's job?

"Anything iPad & pen-based is simply not worth publishing as, again, anyone seriously into tablet pen-based input won't bother with the iPad." - you're the spokesperson for every serious pen user now?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

"compared to the active input methods, pretty much useless toy"
- can you say how long you tried the astropad before you "compared" that it is useless to active input methods?

Feb 26, 2015permalink

"can you say how long you tried the astropad before you "compared" that it is useless to active input methods?"

I indeed haven't tried it. However, I've tested several also-"revolutionary" pen solutions on the iPad before. NONE of them worked properly. One must be a masochist to try to make them work instead of just getting a Wacom/nTrig-enabled tablet, even if only for some sporadic use. (Generally, I only use my TC1100 for pen-based drawing and iPads for everything else.)

Feb 27, 2015permalink

" is it rational to think that you can decide how to do DPR staff's job?"

I find it pretty much useless to report on anything iPad + pen input. There are a LOT more interesting subjects for us mobile and/or tablet users. For example, reviews of new flagship devices like the Note4 (or, in this case, the Z3).

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"There are a LOT more interesting subjects for us mobile and/or tablet users." - now you believe yourself to be the spokesperson for mobile users in connect and that everyone shares the same opinions as you do

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"I indeed haven't tried it. However, I've tested several also-"revolutionary" pen solutions on the iPad before." - by your logic, you can evaluate every new product based on the performance of past ones

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"by your logic, you can evaluate every new product based on the performance of past ones"

Again: you can't expect miracles from a, by default, flawed technology. ANYTHING pen-based is bound to be cr@ppy compared to active solutions.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"now you believe yourself to be the spokesperson for mobile users in connect and that everyone shares the same opinions as you do"

Look, I bet the vast majority of Connect users are far more interested in, say, new reviews of flagship cameraphones or tips-and-tricks articles of new *real* photography apps (like for example "Photo Mate R2" on Android), than an article on a new but, because of the underlying technology, bound-to-fail "revolutionary" pen technology.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"than an article on a new but, because of the underlying technology, bound-to-fail "revolutionary" pen technology." - so you are willing to box out a minority of users. you've made it clear that you have closed your mind on a product based on your past experiences with other ones that you classify as similar. do you apply the same discriminatory profiling in other aspects of your life?

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"It exposes the usual problems with the Note4 panos (apart from the watercoloring and oversharpening, in which, as you've also admitted, the iPhone is better):"

That's not a comparison, that's a singled out example. I can post iPhone 6 (plus) panos too with stitching errors and faults. That tells us exactly nothing in relative terms. And I didn't admit that the iPhone does better at the things mentioned at all, that would be a fallacy or bad reading on your end. I specifically stated that the Note 4 oversharpens and the iPhone 6 understharpens. But I also said that the iPhone still comes with more artifacts, which becomes apparent when you do add sharpening. The watercolor effect is actually much more prominent in iPhone samples of the same size, which in part explains the above problems when you start sharpening.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

This is another direct comparison where the Note 4 wins:
http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Camera-comparison-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4-vs-iPhone-6-iPhone-6-Plus-Sony-Xperia-Z3-LG-G3-Galaxy-S5-Galaxy-Note-3_id3822/page/5
Notice the paintery watercolor effect in the iPhone pano (similar to its regular pictures) and less usable detail. Similarly low in stitching errors.

And here's some iPhone 6 panto's with clear stitching errors both on the left (brick wall) and right side (frames around glass):
http://i.imgur.com/WsDmr.jpg
Or this, even at this small size there are tons of errors visible in the metal fences, etc.:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rt425/15218947890/sizes/k/

Feb 27, 2015*permalink

"That's not a comparison, that's a singled out example. I can post iPhone 6 (plus) panos too with stitching errors and faults."

Sure, iDevices make stitching errors too. It's just that those errors are a bit more apparent in the Note4 shots.

I've made tons of synchronized tests between various iDevices (except for the 5s/6/6+) and Note4's. The Note4 does exhibit more stitching errors, mostly because of the significantly lower sampling frequency it uses. (When shooting *sweep* panos, the higher sensor sampling frequency, the better.) And it can't outresolve even the old iPhone5, which otherwise produces significantly less-resolution images but the pixel-level detail is about the same as with the Note4.

Feb 27, 2015*permalink

"so you are willing to box out a minority of users. you've made it clear that you have closed your mind on a product based on your past experiences with other ones that you classify as similar."

Look, I've seen so many iPad pen ads stating "the first only and REAL input solution for your iPad" that I'm overly skeptic and only laugh when someone state the iPad is an excellent pen input device. And, again, the underlying tech just doesn't allow for precise input.

Feb 27, 2015permalink

"I'm overly skeptic and only laugh when someone state the iPad is an excellent pen input device."

- no, the discussion was not about what you thought of what is said in the article. pay attention:

1) you avoid what you previously claimed - that there was a so-called 'militant' 'iSheep' who stated that an iPad solution is equal to a Wacom/nTrig one.
but you can't pinpoint who it was.

2) you've completely missed the point that you're judging a product you've never ever tried.
how do you know that it is very similar to previous things you've used? you don't. you just can't admit that it's only your preconceived notion, it has no weight except to showcase your prior disappointments.

it may be completely true that the product is indeed the same as other ipad solutions and nowhere near a wacom, but unless you have evidenced it for yourself, that isn't an evaluation you can honestly make.

Feb 28, 2015permalink