Sony a9 Full Review: Mirrorless Redefined

The Samples Gallery, you mean?

Sep 15, 2017permalink

Trundling

2744th

Sep 13, 2017permalink

DPR said "For the first time on a Sony, the a9 offers customizable autofocus tracking sensitivity on a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is the least likely to refocus as a distraction comes between you and your subject, and 5, where it is most likely to refocus on a new subject entering the area where the camera is tracking."

Not true because the A77ii and A99ii offered it before the A9, the A77ii over 2 years ago.

Sep 13, 2017permalink

Ambrogio Spinelli

All right as long as 100 ISO does not see the sigma SD Quattro, Foveon is much better.

Sep 6, 2017permalink

Give up on Foven. Aside from iso 100 performance the Sigma cameras suck, a 1 trick pony if you will.

Sep 13, 2017permalink

Altermann

In my case I do an estimated 80% of my pictures at ISO 100... . Ok, Sigma may not be a sports camera. Its sharpness is a very good special effect compared to all the rest.

Oct 3, 2017*permalink

iPedro1000

I picked up an a9 as an entry into replacing my Nikon gear. Daytime performance is incredible. Interior lighting photography is disappointing. I had a really hard time focusing on subjects with the a9 deviating from the centre point focus to find faces outside the focus point. I turned off face recognition and focus improved marginally. Still nowhere as good as my Nikon D600 which focuses instantly and sticks to whatever I stopped the focus on.

I'm wondering if I made a mistake in moving to mirrorless. I'm hoping that this is just a different system that I have to get used to. As of now, my Nikon feels like an extension of my eyes, instantly doing what I want it to do. The Sony a9 seems to have a mind of its own and focusing on what I want it to focus on seems like a luck of the draw at this point.

Notes: shooting a Sony 24-70mm GM - F2.8 @ 10,000 ISO AF-S in a dimly lit restaurant.

Sep 1, 2017*permalink

iPedro1000

For the second half of the party, luckily I lived close by and ran home to grab by Nikon D800 and ahhhhh, welcome home... My battle tested Nikon focused on the centre point and stayed that way with an AF lock press. Shutter response was instant.

I really really want to love the Sony a9 but so far, it's not responding as quickly as what I'm used to. I'm not sold on taking it to a wedding where I can't miss a moment. It works great when I can control the action, such as in a studio environment or a formal shoot. But shooting a party where I catch a moment in the corner of my eye and in a split second turn to shoot it, the Sony a9 isn't responding nowhere quick enough.

I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, blaming it on growing pains, on a system that I'm not used to. I hope that's just it. Any suggestions on instant focus in dark environments and on holding that focus once I got it?

Sep 1, 2017permalink

Saurat

Surely you can switch to single-point focusing?

Sep 2, 2017permalink

osv

@ipedro1000 - you need to learn how to use the a9, you can get help with that by posting these questions on the sony ff mirrorless forum.

yes saurat, he has single-point focusing capability, and that point can be moved anywhere in the image plane he wants, which his d800 can't do, because dslr focus points are limited to the center area of the screen.

Sep 3, 2017*permalink

iPedro1000

I did use the single point focus setting as that's also how I like to use my Nikon. I focus on my subject in the centre of the frame, lock focus, recompose, and shoot.

Today, I noticed that my face might have been touching the screen and moving the focus point to somewhere other than the centre. I turned off the touch screen focusing and will see if that helps.

Additionally, my Nikon has an additional advantage. The red crosshair AF illuminators on my Nikon speed lights helps the camera find focus instantly and provide an additional benefit of seeing the focus point on the subject itself with my other eye. I haven't looked into Sony speed lights yet but will as I transition. My preference is to go all Profoto for my lights. Is there a hot shoe AF Illuminator for the Sony like there is for Nikon?

Sep 5, 2017*permalink

pawelmod

You should use AF-C almost all the time. PDAF is so good that using contrast af (AF-S) doesn’t make any sense, and as you said, it is just to slow…

Nov 11, 2021permalink

NIba

I know this is extraordinarily unnecessary, impractical, and just plain insane, but what are people's opinion of this camera for street photography, cost aside? It's fast AF looks good for finding the decisive moment and the 20 FPS lets you choose that moment.

Aug 24, 2017permalink

dcstep

Niba, the combination of silent shooting and face/eye detection, should make this a superb camera for street shooting.

Aug 31, 2017permalink

Saurat

The camera doesn't find the decisive moment, the photographer does. If you don't know this no camera on earth is going to help you. You think Cartier-Bresson sprayed and prayed?

Sep 2, 2017permalink

kevin_r

@Saurat, I think that Bresson DID spray. Point is that we only got to see the ones that were keepers. Just like with everyone else.

Sep 15, 2017permalink

AlanG

I'm sure Bresson had his share of misses. I work hard at it and am patient and get some "hits." But it is only after I examine the image that I can see if the image actually did come together as well as I had hoped. There is no way I can take in several moving subjects, decide when everything is perfect, then press the shutter in time to make it work.

The reality for me is that I anticipate a good photo and press the shutter button reflexively... many misses, some hits.

Here is one that I "saw" only after looking through the images weeks later.
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22860149_382498035538241_8720669716448152976_o.jpg?oh=99d88430570071491da90abe49b32e9f&oe=5A6EFD22

Nov 6, 2017permalink

dcstep

The AF of this body, when paired with Sony's G-series 100-400mm lens is truly astounding.

I was on a puffin shooting workshop with Canadian wildlife photographer, Christopher Dodds last week. The conditions have little footballs (puffins) flying at you, sometimes two-feet over the water and shoreline, or against clear blue sky, AT 50-mph, then passing by a cliff wall or bushes, with totally different contrast, just 10-feet behind the birds. I got some wonderful shots with my Canons and took over 13,000 images in total. There were lots of soft shots, but I won the battle enough times to be exceedingly please, BUT the Sony AF blew away all the Canons. It's a true disruptor.

With the Sony, the AF would lock onto a bird, based on movement and stay locked onto the bird, no matter what was happening in the background. Chris said he'd be posting a review on his blog soon, where he'll reveal his settings, which a slightly contrary to Sony's default recommendations. AMAZING

Aug 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

My experience with the a9 isn't very positive regarding AF acquisition compared to the a99II.

I compared the new "fantastic" a9 to the a99II with their native 70-200 f/2.8 lenses. The a9 hunted and hunted and hunted. It never found focus. The a99II nailed focus immediately. It was on the same subject and on the same place on the subject I placed the focus point. The test was inside a well lit big room. The subject was lens and the focus point placed in the area between the black focus ring and the white body.
On some other subjects the a9 found focus and fast. Just as fast as the a99II but nevertheless the a9 disappointed me and my expectations, especially because of all the rave reviews and articles mentioning it as the new "game changer". That test sealed the deal for me. A99II is a far better camera and ergonomically much, much better. The weight difference of the a9 and a99II with their native 70-200 lenses are not something you notice. Only the worse ergonomics of the a9

Aug 2, 2017permalink

ojos azules

I guess all mirror-less cameras can create a virtual focusing screen.
Technically speaking I cant see why not.

Not that it would be very useful other than for manual focusing.
But nostalgia and fun.
You could then select your favorite focusing-screen.

Is it already implemented in some models ?

Aug 1, 2017permalink

Fujifilm uses its left- and right-looking pixels of its on-sensor PDAF to offer a sort of faux split-prism manual focus mode. In principle, any camera with phase detection elements (which must view the lens with slightly different perspectives) could be used to generate some sort of focus screen simulation.

Aug 17, 2017permalink

Average User

I am getting really confused. Maybe you can help by explaining Sony's thinking in leaving out S log 2 and S log 3 and related features. They do have it in the A6500. Especially ironic because now Canon has decided to include their version of it in the 5D Mk4, whereas, not before.

Jul 20, 2017permalink

That's something we absolutely can't explain. As you say, they offer it across much of the rest of their range, yet not on the a9.

I guess it'll be interesting to see whether a9 remains alone as a flagship model (per a900 and a99) or whether it does get a more video-focused a9S sister.

Jul 25, 2017permalink

Fernando Coutinho

A Great Camera.

Jul 11, 2017permalink

Tom Holly

Streaking in nature photos:
https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170525_2056-Sony_A9-PatternNoise-at-ISO100.html

streaking in shadows:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59625603

Streaks along edge of 12-pixel bands in scope traces:
http://blog.kasson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/16000th-2-1024x945.png

Banding under LED lighting:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7370859353/sony-a9-banding-reported-by-fro-fact-or-fiction

Jul 9, 2017permalink

We believe most of these examples are the on-sensor PDAF stripes, as detailed on page 5 of the review and the last example (lit by an LED display, not something designed for even illumination) is primarily a problem of the light source, which is then exaggerated by the way the a9 reads out its sensor.

Jul 20, 2017permalink

surlezi

Will DPReview finally increase the camera rating, now that you have acknowledged that it is way sharper than the initial misfocused test scene showed.
And also now that banding issues have been proved by DPR and others to be either non issues or issues that other camera have in same situations ?
Thanks for this review anyway.

Jul 4, 2017permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4158972

The scoring was always based on the camera's full sharpness capabilities, we just couldn't find a way to consistently shoot that level of sharpness for our test scene.

Jul 7, 2017permalink

MedicineMan999

I have 1DXii, a99ii, a9.
a9 wins handily over 1DXii for everything except (possibility) durability---but I don't plan on a frontal assault from an NFL lineback or speeding tight end.
So impressed with the a9 my 500ISii is sold and the 1D body soon to hit the market.
Only a handfull of images but note several BIFs via adapted EOS glass.
It's true Metabones + Sony have come up with the magic mojo. I would not hesitate to shoot any BIF venue with the a9 IF 400mm is enough (no problem in Florida and the major hot spots).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/medicineman4040/albums/72157685626513986
My intentions are to pair the a9 with the A7Rii.

Jul 3, 2017permalink

armandino

"My intentions are to pair the a9 with the A7Rii"
that is what I do :-)
My 1DX has been resting and possibly rusting too...

Jul 11, 2017permalink

tecnoworld

Even if I don't like Sony in general, and Sony cameras in particular (way too expensive, very bad UI, decent lenses are more expensive than other manufacturers') I have to insist that they are the only company trying to innovate, after samsung decided to quit.

Canon is ridicolous (see 6D-ii or 5D-iv) and Nikon is good only for the top end (D5 and D500).

We'll see what sony can do with the next iteration of high end FF (eg A7R III and A7S III). The A9 is really nice but definitely too expensive.

Jul 1, 2017permalink

Lucas_

"The A9 is really nice but definitely too expensive".
I've had an A7II for about 3 years and considering to get an A7RII.
The A9 is fantastic, but for $4,500.00 it's prohibitive for me, although I think when compared to the Canon 1Dx II for $6,000.00 the A9 is a much better deal in every sense!

Jul 19, 2017*permalink

JohnNEX

New pro Sony lenses might be a little more expensive than Canon and Nikon but there is not a lot in it:

The discussion in the thread is quite interesting. A lot comes down to what prices you are actually comparing and if the comparisons are really like with like.

Jul 25, 2017permalink

cjgent

They have to afford to pay the developers of new stuff somehow.

Jul 26, 2017permalink

Kiwisnap

"The Sony a9 may not be the 'go-to' camera for landscapes, but it works just fine in a pinch."

What a bizarre statement. It's a 24Mp full frame camera. It works perfectly for landscapes. Possibly a higher resolution might be (note - might) be better for certain end outputs but the A9 would hardly be useable only "in a pinch".

Jul 1, 2017permalink

Your understanding of the statement is bizarre. Dpreview is 100% correct.

The primary focus of a camera like the Sony a9 isn't landscapes. $4500 is a fair bit of cash, especially when a Pentax K1 costs $1899 and is superior for landscapes.

Hence the "in a pinch" comment. Different products have different strengths and different markets. Not difficult to understand.

Jul 1, 2017*permalink

Kiwisnap

I disagree.

A 24Mp camera is more than adequate for landscapes. The resolution is more relevant to the output than the subject. If your image will never be bigger than a postcard, 42Mp is pointless. This belief that you need a certain resolution to shoot a particular subject is largely bunk.

An 8Mp camera would do 'in a pinch'.

Aug 10, 2017*permalink

Who shoots landscapes with $3,000 cameras and lenses to make postcards? You are again misunderstanding target audiences and clearly, nobody agrees with you.

Once again, Dpreview is correct and you are misinformed.

Aug 10, 2017permalink

The Silver Nemesis

Looking from a different angle, this (very good) a9 is good news for C and N. Here is why: the top is always the most profitable. The risk analysis will tell executives from both companies that the a9 is not a joke, and it should be taken seriously if they want top profitability to stay/increase. Now, from here there are two directions: divest (if the camera business will no longer look that attractive), or spend R&D money. Even if a9 is a tech wonder, it is not that market unpredictable. Top camera bodies from both C & N can accommodate technical solutions that can go beyond 20 fps, and this with consistent AF. This is because the form factor can allow a lot of processing power. And here is a trade off: a9 offers a lot in a rather small form factor. Will it be tempting for the pro photographers to have more, but in the same old shape ? You can't have it all; so if both Canon and Nikon will develop hybrid 1D-X IIIs and D6s, these will have incredible specs but the same weight. My take.

Jun 28, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

It's good to have alternatives. Bring them on from Canon and Nikon. Sony A7 and A9 are too small cameras for my taste with bad ergonomics. It's not for everyone. There are still enough people out there who wants to have a bigger body. The SLT line with A-Mount goes into the same direction at Sony. Even the Panasonic GH5 proves that a small sensor doesn't need to be packaged in a thiny body.

Jun 28, 2017*permalink

https://blog.calphoto.co.uk/2017/06/09/is-the-sony-a9-camera-fit-for-sports/

@A Sign

Hey troll, you're here?!?!!???!!!!

Jun 29, 2017permalink

lhkjacky

SONY a9 BANDING Issues
https://youtu.be/zv1JCHfXDdY

Download the banding RAW files
http://froknowsphoto.com/my-sony-a9-has-banding-issues/

Jun 26, 2017*permalink

PWPhotography

This is similar to overheating issue, a few reported but most don't have. Maybe on faulty units, or a FW update will fix it?

Tony Northrup also said absolute no banding from what he has seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPc7g_W6yg

Jun 27, 2017permalink

It's not banding. See the explanations in the Canon lens thread or in the Sony FF thread

Jun 27, 2017permalink

Chriscotech

I have been working in some horrible low light/mixed light/point light sources conditions with the A9 and I haven't had any trouble with banding or artefacts in general. Just like the A7RII, the IQ of this camera is excellent. My Eos 5DIII files look rough in comparison, and I used to me happy with them.

Jul 18, 2017permalink

Geoff F

Seems metabones are really pulling the stops out:
Firmware update on Metabones adapter adds Sony A9 support
Benefits and improvements:
Added autofocus support during high speed and medium speed continuous drive (up to 10fps) on Sony A9 (“Green” mode only). Experiment with the “Priority Set in AF-C” setting for the best compromise between hit rate and frame rate for your shooting style. Overall performance depends on lens used....

Many others - too long for this post.

Jun 26, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Yeah, paying $449 for an adapter on top of a expensive camera. Makes really sense. You get full frame lenses from Canon or Nikon for this price. Where is the brain?

Jun 28, 2017permalink

Geoff F

surely for people who already have an extensive canon lens collection and could afford the camera and one adaptor only, and then make use of all their lenses?

Jun 28, 2017permalink

a9Guy

Sony's Support Is NOT Up to Top 3 Standards.

I purchased a complete a9 setup to replace my Nikon D810 gear in making the switch to mirrorless, maybe irresponsibly believing the hype and all the positive reviews thrown around by the media. Unfortunately, out of the box, my a9 cannot focus accurately on faces, yet instead places the focal point outside of the green face frame making the hairline and shirt collars perfectly clear while leaving the eyes without perfect focus. I've tried multiple different settings, have used Eye AF, upgraded the firmware, all with the same result.

The retailer said Sony does not accept any returns so I called the support line, but the operator doesn't speak English, the USA line won't support me as I bought the camera in Asia, the three different Sony website Contact forms I filled out resulted said the page was "possibly binned", and there are no Sony email addresses available. Having previously had excellent support from Nikon, I am very disappointed!

Jun 25, 2017permalink

All your issues are because of where you bought the camera.

True of any brand. Nothing Sony specific. I bought the first Canon 5D in asia and had issues that can only be solved in that country - not the USA where I brought it back to.

Sorry for your troubles.

Jun 26, 2017permalink

HeyItsJoel

Agreed. This is why I only buy USA models with USA warranties.

Jun 26, 2017permalink

I won't easily fall for this guy's *story*. He only joined DPR on 25 June 2017 and this could be his first post - quite negative at that.
Of course, I will give him the benefit of doubt.... But still....

Jun 27, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Oh dear. Don't believe the Sony hype. It is hypocrisy to say they are already as professional as Canon or Nikon.

Jun 28, 2017*permalink

@ASign
Troll alert!
The most vicious troll ever from another Sony A9 article (200 plus posts, believe it or not!) has made his way to this relatively old A9 review. Be very wary of his leech-like trolling.
Can we reach 3,000 posts with him around? Let's see.......

Jun 29, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

@Avatar480234
Who cares? You have problems accepting opinions from Non-Sony fanboys and basically my answer was directed to "a9Guy" and not you.

Jun 29, 2017*permalink

A Sign
Your posts were practically for *everybody* who doesn't share your dislike / hatred for Sony cameras.

Jun 29, 2017permalink

There are so many threads here now :-)

While Sony/Canon/Nikon aficionados can agree or disagree on what ever is superior about A9, one thing not so well highlighted is: product support.

Camera/lens repair and support infrastructural-dimension should be part of the calculus. It should be a category which should be separately tracked, and accounted for when giving awards (particularly of Gold standards..) to cameras. (Yes it doesn't apply to a specific model, but it is a universal basic requirement.)

How do these three companies stack against each other on Repair Infrastructure? This issue is more important perhaps to Professionals. And perhaps should be weighted more for 'Professional' cameras?

Jun 24, 2017permalink

PVCdroid

I think Sony's Pro support is outstanding and have been a member of the ProImaging Support program for two years. LA and NY will have walk in facilities and Lens Rentals is their vendor for loaner equip delivered next day at no cost. Couldn't be better in the US.

Jun 24, 2017permalink

https://esupport.sony.com/info/1523/US/EN

Its growing and improving.

Sony Japan appears to really care and are looking toward the future.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

Excuse me, but this Sony Pro club admission is by invitation only -- looking at the URL for Sony Imaging Pro Support URL. https://esupport.sony.com/info/1523/US/EN

Is this how it works? By invitation only?

Jun 25, 2017permalink

kryten61

Hmm

Jun 25, 2017*permalink

@K1000USR
As an self-described Fuji user it's very kind of you to worry about Sony pro support.

I would disagree with you that it is something 'not so well highlighted.' In my experience it is mentioned to saturation levels in each and every thread about Sony cameras or lenses, usually by people like yourself.

By that I mean people who do not use Sony cameras and so can never have any need for Sony support, but have heard somewhere that Sony pro support is an area where they can bash Sony.

When these people are given positive information and shown positive experiences about Sony pro support - as those of PVCdroid above, they immediately change tack, trying to find another angle from which to criticise, revealing clearly that they were never 'interested' or 'curious' at all but just had an agenda to bash Sony.

You've done exactly that.

Sony users don't troll Fuji threads about their cameras' weaknesses - real or imagined - please don't troll ours.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

I honestly believe that Sony cameras are the most trolled of all brands. It's a direct result of the rapid improvement in their cameras making them among the best out there. This results in fanboys of other brands wanting to knock Sony down. It's the exact same thing I see on ESPN boards where fan's knock other teams. The Trolls treat photography as some kind of sport where there are winners and losers. It's a sad commentary on the human condition that some people put the camera brand used in such a high degree of importance.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

BTW @RubberDials, I apologize for having hurt your Sony Thread ;-)

Besides Fuji, I should perhaps also disclose I use and own LF, MF and 35mm cameras. Now according to you, which threads should I troll, and which should I not ;-)

Jun 25, 2017permalink

PVCdroid

k1000usr: You fill out the application and they then send you an invitation. You have to have X number of Sony cameras/lenses and be a professional by sending a link to your credentials/work. Not as difficult as it appears really.

Jun 27, 2017permalink

@K1000usr

You shouldn't troll ANY.

Jun 27, 2017permalink

The point was, it is very plausible that many people like me who own a lot of brands/cameras don't need to troll for a particular brand. I can live with your skepticism, however.. :-)

Jun 27, 2017permalink

So you Troll for every brand? No matter how you look at it you're trolling

Jun 27, 2017permalink

Kiwisnap

It depends where you live.

Here in NZ, for example, there is Canon Professional Services but no Nikon equivalent. Sony will be introducing the professional support service - already available in Australia - later this year.

Jul 1, 2017permalink

Wild Light

if you only you'd reshoot all the other ones you've screwed focus up on

Jun 24, 2017permalink

coase

I want to know if I'm misunderstanding this test. They say the Sony is a bit softer looking than the D5 but when going all the way to 6400, I find that the Sony looks sharper and clearer than the D5 when looking at the people's eyes, the cards, the paint labels, and the feathers on the lower left.

I don't want to argue whether this is a valid test or not, I just want to know if i'm seeing the same things.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

The Silver Nemesis

I have seen a comment related to President Putin below. Here is an add-on: during the Communist period / Cold War there was a favourite expression used behind the Iron Courtain: "the will of the people". You were sometimes arrested because of it, and sometimes you were never seen again.

So, if the will of the people here is to give the a9 a new rating / score, so be it - just, please, give it 100. It would be impossible to (any) other brands to reach that, ever, so the will of the (majority of the) people here will be fulfilled. :)

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Nikonmaniac0620

That is simply nonsense. A toy will forever remain a toy. And I simply refuse to touch a toy within the next 20 years.

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

@Nikonmaniac0629

You are entitled to your views and decisions.
Thank you.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

You're telling people what is nonsense about a Sony camera with the name Nikonmaniac0620? Let me translate your comments.... I am a maniac about Nikon and Sony is under my skin.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

@Nikonmaniac0620
Nobody cares whether you play with toys - or even wear nappies/diapers - but this is photo forum, so keep it on topic, please.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

bobsphotos

Ha! The sharpest camera tested ever on DPR under 20,000$ is the Sigma sd Quattro H. The color looks off but that can be adjusted. Jpeg is amazingly sharp. It's the sensor! NOTHING can even get close to its sharpness short of 20 GRAND! Amazing!

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

DPR gave the Sony A9 a score of 89??

The Sony A9 is a revolutionary camera!

DPR's FIrst Review of the A9 was full of errors...

DPR's retracted and republished review, of course, shows increased performance. As such, the score should be reassessed and increased.

Why hasn't DPR INCREASED THE SCORE YET???

Canon Bias Advertising $?

Jun 23, 2017permalink

just someone

OH MY GOD!!

End of the world??

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Probably because they should decrease the score if manual focusing proves so bad and inaccurate requiring a rail and half a day wasted to get it right.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

kryten61

Well they are now owned by Amazon so I would say that is the end of any legitimate review.
With Amazon ownership , I have zero trust in this being a neutral site without bias, Pity.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

armandino

I do think that the DPR makes great reviews. The finals score is always somewhat political and for a good reason: readers are already pulling each other apart about 1DXII been better or worse than the D5 or similar, can you imagine if one was 1 or 2 points better than the other? A9 had to be in line with these two cameras.
At the end of the day the final score is an indication of how good the camera is in their view, I would not use it to compare direct competitors.

Jun 27, 2017*permalink

OvinceZ

Well, the results certainly spoil the A9 review as published. Since an acknowledged error was made surely a new overall score must be adjusted upwards.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Jesse_Just_Him

Sony E mounts just keep getting exponentially better and better on every iteration~~~

Closing in to the Pro region in maybe the next 2~3 years I guess?

Jun 23, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

D500 in RAW against the Sony is better than the D5.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Can you translate that into English?

Jun 23, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Sure. The D500 shooting RAW (who gives a ----- about JPEG?) is better than the older D5 when it comes to clarity of image against the Sony. Arguably, it is as good as the Sony FF, but different in how it renders the image.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Who cares about jpg? Do you even have any idea how this camera will be used by many people?

Jun 23, 2017permalink

>> (who gives a ----- about JPEG?)
Sony tries to sway sports photographers. You may not know it but many sports photographers send their material ASAP to publish in jpeg straight out of camera. Not all but many enough. Thus the target audience of this model does actually care about jpeg. Not all but enough.

Jun 24, 2017permalink

JimLosAltos

And some news services are now REQUIRING unaltered, out of camera JPEGs since altering images in news is verboten.

Jun 24, 2017permalink

I'm glad you all reshot the a9 test photos but you should run a front page correction for the next two months. Amateur move screwing over a camera company in that fashion. Hurry much?

Jun 22, 2017permalink

It is the Sony who are being immature if to nail focus you have to go to such ridiculous lengths. It should not be the case for any modern camera let alone for one that costs this much. Ridiculous.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Cheng Bao

If you are not reading the article, or simply trolling.

Rishi admits that it is largely a human error instead of camera error, since all their test shots are MF on macro rail

Jun 23, 2017permalink

miksto - You Troll every Sony article - especially the A9 in an extremely negative way. Your posts are silly and don't add any value to the discussions... I bet you've never even been around an A-9 "in person". I OWN ONE. Therefore, I find it especially annoying when you troll, opine, crap on things you've never touched and know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about and only try to ruin it for the rest of us.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Mared
Hold back your horses. If you do not agree it does not mean a different opinion does not add to discussion like you try to portray. Discussion is not something open solely to praise and enthusiastic boot licking.
I do not have A9 - true. I have A7R II. I was hopeful the AF and MF issues that Sony has with A7R II will be addressed and thus have interest in A9 and am reading about it in the hope to get the glimpse of what may come in A7R II replacement. So far I see no evidence of MF issues addressed - rather confirmation to the opposite as it should not be as difficult to get focusing right as DPR had with A9. It should not! And that hardness is not DPR fault.
I am still hopeful wrt AF and want to see how it performs in low light and low contrast cases where A7R II all too often simply gives up or hunts a lot unlike Canon/Nikon that seem to snap focus in the exact same conditions. My hopes wrt AF pin on the fact that it seems finally Sony added some cross type PD focus points.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

armandino

@miksto
"I was hopeful the AF and MF issues that Sony has with A7R II"
could you reference this issue? I have 2 of them and I do not recall seeing that.

Jun 27, 2017permalink

PVCdroid

The closest miksto has come to owning a Sony camera is in his dreams.

Jun 27, 2017permalink

HeyItsJoel

$$ Sony A9 body only = Nikon D810 + 24-70 f2.8 $$

Hmmm... no contest.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

D810 is not a high speed camera. It has a continous shooting speed of only 5fps. The A9 shoots at 20fps. Slight difference!

The Sony counterpart to the Nikon D810 is the A7RII.

A7RII: 42mp, 5fps, 399 AF points, IBIS, Face/Eye AF, $2,698.00
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1159878-REG/sony_a7r_mark_ii_digital.html

D810: 36mp, 5fps, 51 AF points, no IBIS, no Face/Eye AF, $2,796.95
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1062499-REG/nikon_d_810_digital_slr_body.html

Jun 22, 2017permalink

nekrosoft13

a9 is direct competition to D5

a9 = $4500
d5 = $6500

hmmmm... no contest

stop trolling joel

Jun 23, 2017permalink

HeyItsJoel you are right it would be no contest in many situations where the D810 would get soundly beat. But sure for landscapes the D810 would win but unfortunately you would lose for being the person comparing the D810 to the A9 for landscape photography.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

kryten61

How to look clueless?

Jun 25, 2017permalink

Gon0S

A7RII have their strenghts, D810 does still have its own.

So what's the point ? Does the new features set give you better skilled shots ?
Still seeing guys and girls doing far better pics with 10 years old sluggish and obsolete bodies, while seeing so many techwhores raging over in huge forums battles. In the meantime, many do only take pics to showcase their latest hiteck tool is better than the concurrent last generation hi tech body... hourray...

Guys, please stop raving about features set, it is a neverending run. All this cr@p talking is annoying as paradise. Get the tool that suits your needs, and use it instead of trashing the other guy that did not pick the same rig as you.

EVF and SONY does not make me dream. Period. I used a 2003 tech old body and was serving my needs far enough and if its shutter did not loose reliability I would never had switch to a D810. I gain nice feature set, far beyond my needs, and so would a A9/A7RII but I own F-mount lenses, that is it. So what?

Jun 30, 2017permalink

scoobysnapstories

$$$ cringe.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Shouldn't DPR increase the A9 review score since there were blatant errors in the original review (e.g. studio scene out of focus, and others)?

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Probably they should DECREASE review score due to that reason since such focusing failure is the camera issue. Nobody will be using that rails and half a day wasted method to nail focus in real life for a single shot. This is just ridiculous and impractical for any camera and especially for camera that has focusing system that claims to be immune to front/back focus due to being on-sensor - so you cannot even blame the lens under such focusing system.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

I do not see how your comment is valid for their test and their original assertion.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Richard Kwon

I think a lot of other cameras need to be tested again with correct focusing since your doing it for the a9... Just to be fair.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

miksto - What're you trying to say?

"Nobody will be using that rails and half a day wasted method to nail focus in real life" I have no clue what you're trying to say...

I own the A9 along with Sony FE and Canon L (metabones adapted) lenses. The A9 AF system F'ng Rocks. Just my experience with both the Canon and FE lenses...

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Mared
I think I am absolutely clear on what I am saying and on why. Please re-read. Otherwise I cannot help you. Nobody will be doing what DPR did to nail the focus. As for you... My guess you just have lower threshold on quality than DPR and just did not care about nailing the focus as precisely. Thus you are happy enough. Congrats, not being as picky as DPR makes your life easier.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

s1rf4n

miksto....DPR uses the same focus procedures on all of the camera's they test (Manual Focus). So why would you mark the Sony down because of how DPR tests the camera. You are making no sense at all.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

s1rf4n
I do not think they spent half a day on a rail on any other cameras to finally nail the focus. That is the only part that differentiates the initial version of the A9 review and the updated version. They clearly did not even know they need to do something as drastic as that. And that is what makes me think they did not have to do it with other cameras to nail the focus.

So there is a clear difference in how difficult it was to get the MF right with A9 compared to all the other cameras (including Sony A7R II it seems). DRP themselves were caught by surprise here.

So as you can see there is a substantial difference in what they had to do with A9 compared to other cameras to nail MF and it is not the same procedure in to what extent and effort they were forced to go to nail MF. This is completely impractical in real life and is a huge minus to the camera.

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

@milksto
You are writing about things you don't understand.

The studio scene is not an AF test. DPR bracket manual focus using a rail to remove any inaccuracies in focus caused by individual focussing systems.

They did not manual focus because the A9 AF isn't inaccurate and they are not suggesting that users should use a manual focussing rail to 'nail focus' in real life.

Focus is always an approximation because nothing is completely flat, (The DPR test scene isn't).

You cannot infer that because they made focussing errors when they conducted the first test they have not done this before.

Jun 25, 2017*permalink

Akpinxit

Feels kind of weak excuse ...

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Chris59

Bingo! I thought as much...

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Elliot H

what's with the 1st "Con"?

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Jim Evidon

Just for fun, I compared the Sony to the Leica SL and the SL is sharper with less apparent noise than the Sony. Since jpeg images are dependent on camera software, I checked RAW as well. The rankings remain the same IMO. Do not take this as an absolute statement but only a comparison of DP Reviews own images. I chose the Leica because the sensor statistics are similar. Even the Nikon D5 appears to be a slightly better performer. That being said, all three look excellent..

Jun 22, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

I bet the Sony A9 pictures from fast action will look way sharper than those from the Leica SL. Who wins then? :-)

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Jim Evidon

Probably the Sony, but I don't really know for certain. Do you for a fact?

Jun 22, 2017*permalink

The Davinator

I see more noise in the Leica shots at 3200 and 6400 for raw.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

What is the point of the focusing system that can only nail focus by such awkward means as described in the article and otherwise fails to do it automatically? And not that it is a high res camera. It is actually medium resolution wise.
It is double failure given Sony advertised on-sensor focusing as free of focus shift which it now proves to be totally wrong on A9.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

https://youtu.be/KX1sfy__7A4

Jun 22, 2017permalink

skookum8

Did you not read the article and Rishi's subsequent comments that every camera is manually focused for the studio scene comparison? Can you say "every camera is manually focused in the studio scene comparison" out loudly ten times? And then tell us if you still stand by your comment?

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Imperian

@skookum8 he'll then say it's a scandal the MF on sony su.cks so much that experienced guys like Rishi will make errors on it. You know, goalposts everywhere! lolll

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

Moderators should delete these type posts from you and give you a ban of some type.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

skookum8
Absolutely. I read that bit and stand by my comment 100%. I do not have A9 but I own A7R II and found manual focus in certain cases is incredibly tough to get right. For example, when I wanted to photograph moon with manual focus I just could not nail it. Not sure what gives - may be focus by wire, may be something else. I do not care but I know it is a problem in certain cases - not in all.
Unfortunately with A7R II this manual focus issue also comes on top of auto focus completely giving up where Canon and Nikon do not. So there are cases when I am forced to manual focus just because AF gives up completely and having MF issues after that is especially unpleasant.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

FF Pro
Hello mister censor. I really regret you are not prepared to hear anyone but yourself and would happily censor anything what contradicts what you like to think.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

skookum8

Miksto you might consider that your vision or vision prescription could be a factor. I know if I accidentally swap my contact lens, focusing becomes more difficult. Just something to consider.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

skookum8
Well, in such cases I rely on MF assist somewhat and found that I could not. I am short-sighted - true - but that means I have no problem with EVF that is close. I can judge sharpness very well for photos that are already taken - not as good as on a large monitor but still... EVF seems good enough for post shot review. But for MF assist... not really. I see the focus nailed in EVF, let MF ring go and it seems to shift a bit.
I was very unhappy with A7R II's focusing on two sides:
1) AF giving up often where Canon and Nikon do not (also hunting that I did not have on Canon and Nikon).
2) MF issues when with narrow DoF it is too inaccurate.
I hoped that Sony would fix that but seems second issue is still there with A9. Not sure about the first issue - may be bettered a bit as I read that A9 has some cross-type PD focus points which was a problem with A7R II.
Still, fingers crossed, they will better it for A7R III or whatever will come in its place.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

miksto You get on here and talk about what shame Sony should have regarding their AF system but it was a MF test shot on rails. You clearly didn't read the article or didn't comprehend what DPR messed up on and not Sony. It was human error.

I just get tired of reading your posts because you should and act like a troll. Trolling doesn't do anyone any good.

I own Canon, Sony, and other brands of camera and call it like I see it. I don't troll.

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

FF Pro
Looks like you have not read at all what I said. Read first in full all above and then we can talk. I had completely different gripes with BOTH AF and MF and understand well enough that MF was used in the article but it was not DPR fault. MF should not require such awkwardly hard to nail focusing - that is a huge issue with the camera itself and with Sony and it seems to resemble MF issues I had with A7R II one of which I own in addition to Canon and Nikon. I rather regret that Sony still cannot get it right. I was hopeful that A9 will show Sony starts to sort this out but regretfully not. This dampens hopes I had that A7R II replacement will come soon without those AF/MF issues I had with it where I did not with Canon and Nikon. I still hope Sony will sort out in future but may be not this year judging by A9.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

skookum8

Miksto, sometimes I use a combination of focus magnification and focus peaking to get the manual focus right. That doesn't work well enough for you?

Jun 24, 2017permalink

Ford Mustang top speed sux. -I don't have the Mustang but I have a Bronco.
Drawing any conclusions on A9's AF system and performance based on A7Rii is equally valid.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

skookum8
Not really. E.g. when photographing the moon one of the days with SEL70200GM there was no way I could nail MF. But AF was giving up as well.
I know such cases are not most common use cases (in fact on another day when visual contrast was better - it worked with AF) and most of the time it is fine but when it happens there is little I could do.
On that same day my wife was with me and she still has old cheap Canon 6D and that one had no problem focusing in both AF and in MF on the moon. AF was instant with no hunting like Sony's that hunts a lot and fails.
What was even funnier we also had Sony RX100M4 with us and that one had no problem focusing in AF.

All would be fine if such failures when they happen were not in both AF and in MF.

Also as I got Sony A7R II it was almost the first time in about 10 years when I had a camera that could not AF in some cases and forced me to MF.

So I am watching out for Sony to do better job next time.

Jun 28, 2017*permalink

Eleson
If you read carefully nowhere I judged A9 focusing based on A7R II. Instead I was looking at A9 focusing based on the issues DPR had as a glimpse of that may come in A7R II replacement. This invalidates your funnies. Please kindly learn to read.

Jun 28, 2017permalink

My bad. I read ...
" I do not have A9 but I own A7R II and found manual focus in certain cases is incredibly tough to get right. "
... as you were expressing worries based on your experience with A7RII.

Come to think of it, not much in that whole post would remain if you removed the A7RII experiences.
Thanks for clarifying,

Jun 28, 2017permalink

Eleson,
I am still hopeful Sony will eventually rectify and better the AF and MF issues across their camera line up.
Judging by to how much effort DPR had to indulge themselves into (a rail and half a day) to get MF properly focused for this review Sony still has not nailed it in A9 what is regrettable. May be next time.
I am still hopeful AF in A9 has been bettered compared to A7R II where it completely gave up all too often for my liking. My hopes in this respect are based on that I read that Sony finally put cross-type phase detection points which they evidently did not in A7R II.
It may have been better to even have off sensor phase detection that does not depend on lens aperture and use on sensor only for adjustments. This would also be a step forward in low light low contrast situations. But that is just dreaming at this point.

Jun 28, 2017permalink

s1rf4n

This just in.....CNN is reporting "Russian President Vladimir Putin has been caught tampering with the Studio Scene Image Quality Tests @ dpreview"....More information to come as a special council comprised of Canon and Nikon users is put in place to investigate these new and obviously faked results.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

dgumshu

:-). Doesn't surprise me... more fake news

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Jesse_Just_Him

In Soviet Russia, Zenit beats Canikon~~~

Jun 23, 2017permalink

caravan

The competition is now more nervous than before.

Jun 22, 2017permalink

Esstee

I think the proper term here is angry. as in, the competition is angrier than ever!
Or at least that's how this appears to be playing out, according to a large portion of the internet ;)

Jun 22, 2017permalink

beavertown

DXO:

The Sony a9 comes out on top against the Canon 1Dx II and Nikon D5 with an overall score of 92 points, compared to 88 points for its main action camera rivals. While the Nikon D5 just has the edge for color depth, and the Canon 1Dx II just ahead for dynamic range, the Sony a9 is the more consistent performer of the three at base ISO, offering very good results in all three categories, including the best low-light ISO performance (3517 ISO).

Jun 22, 2017permalink

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/whats-next-sony-135mm-fe-400mm-fe-rx-camera/

Uh, disagree to the fullest. Sony's PQ is great no doubt and the A9 has a nice feature set (although some other features were sacrificed which was ridiculous) but you can't put it up there in the same grade as the 1DXII and the Nikon D5. Both cameras use dual high performance storage medium while the A9 uses dual SD slots and only one of them is high speed. That's a major downfall when comparing it against the 1DXII and the D5 which use either dual CFast or XQD cards. And no matter what, native lens choices are far more on the Canon and Nikon. I highly doubt you'll start seeing the A9 used on the sidelines of the NFL in place of Canon or Nikon. The A9 is more of a "catchup" camera. Heck, it has features the cheaper A6300 has had a year ago.

Jun 22, 2017*permalink

@HenryDJP - "That's a major downfall when comparing it against the 1DXII and the D5 which use either dual CFast or XQD cards."

The "major downfall" really depends on if real-world users really find that this impedes their shooting. Most likely, not everyone is going to consider this a "major downfall" IRL. Edge-to-edge (93%) focus coverage and 20fps shooting speed will certainly be more attractive to a lot of shooters.

As for lenses, the Sony FF MILC system has only been in existence 3 years, 8 months. But already, they've filled out their system very nicely. Sony still needs telephoto primes, but those are coming. Sony's next two lenses are said to be a 135mm and a 400mm prime later this year.

Before you know it, this "Sony has no lenses" argument will be a figment of the past. Let's see where they are by the 2020 Olympics. I'm sure a lot of these current criticisms will seem rather quaint and outdated.

Jun 22, 2017*permalink

Jim Evidon

Sounds like a major effort in pixel peeping.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

@HenryDJP.... Nikon and Canon users are running out of excuses and with each new Sony camera they are more and more grasping at straws. The comment you replied to was about DXO sensor rating and you replied with Nikon and Canon have more native lenses. There comes a point where you can't just ignore or marginalize advantages of one brand and then highlight what you consider to be advantages of your chosen brand and still maintain any level of objectivity or credibility.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

@Clayton1985 "There comes a point where you can't just ignore or marginalize advantages of one brand and then highlight what you consider to be advantages of your chosen brand and still maintain any level of objectivity or credibility."

How ironic. That's exactly what Sony fans do on DPR daily.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

Yes some of them certainly do but I'm not sure why that makes it ok for you to do it. There are unreasonable fans using every brand of camera but there are also plenty of people that make an effort to be at least somewhat objective. As was mentioned before you were replying to a statement about the DXO score and those comments were reasonable and included areas where the other cameras had better scores.

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

@HenryDJP - The irony is that people said the same things that you are saying now, but they were saying them about Canon when Canon EOS was new. "And no matter what, native lens choices are far more on the Nikon or Minolta. I highly doubt you'll start seeing the Canon EOS used on the sidelines of the NFL in place of Nikon or Minolta. Canon EOS cameras are more of 'catchup' cameras." LOL. Yes, at one time, Canon cameras were dismissed as "catchup cameras" too. The whole system was dismissed as a "catchup system." It just goes to show the danger of being blind to change.

Jun 23, 2017*permalink

@Clayton1985 "Yes some of them certainly do but I'm not sure why that makes it ok for you to do it."

I'm not sure where you get off accusing me of purposely ignoring Sony's innovations. Maybe if you remove your ignorance and notice that I mentioned that the A9 has some nice features and great PQ. Trouble with Sony fans is they are constantly on high defense, such as you. I happen to own a Sony A6300 but I'm not blind to what's not perfect about it. Maybe Sony fans should stop being blind to what Sony IS doing and NOT doing, rather than trashing people for posting their opinions and experiences whether you agree with them or not.

Jun 24, 2017permalink

@T3 "The irony is that people said the same things that you are saying now, but they were saying them about Canon when Canon EOS was new."

I wasn't promoting Canon here at all. I was making a point and simply stating facts. Sorry if that's too much for you to handle.

Jun 24, 2017permalink

@HenryDJP... perhaps read my original comments again because the problem is not that you're blind about what's not perfect about the A6300... you are blind about what's not perfect about the Canon and Nikon cameras you are comparing the A6300 or the A9 to. So hopefully this helps you better understand where I get off accusing you of purposely ignoring (actually marginalizing) Sony's cameras (I didn't say anything about innovation) because that is exactly what I'm doing.

Jun 24, 2017*permalink

@Clayton1985 You most certainly have reading comprehension issues. The only thing I stated was that Canon and Nikon have more native lenses and use faster storage medium for their DSLR's, and that's the only thing I actually said. Where else did I state a long list of perfections about Canon and Nikon? A member earlier stated the A9 was right up there with the D5 and the 1DXII and I stand by what I said. It's not.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

@HenryDJP
I can assure you the comprehension issues are on your side! You responded to a comment on DXOmark's grading of the A9 sensor with; 'I disagree in the fullest..' before launching into criticism of the A9 for using inferior storage cards to cameras and having fewer lenses than it's competitors. :)

This is an informal fallacy in reasoning terms since DXOmark's grading of the A9 sensor has nothing to do with the type of cards used or the lenses available.

Jun 25, 2017permalink

Very interesting.

Jun 25, 2017*permalink

zubs

Would love an A9.
Right kidney/left kidney? decisions decisions.

Jun 21, 2017permalink

AtlantaWeddingpro

You only need one. Go for it.

Jun 21, 2017permalink

The backup camera is the one causing worries...

Jun 22, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Sell both. Make sure you're in focus.

Jun 23, 2017permalink

sina taj

i want it

Jun 21, 2017permalink