Sony a6400 review

@dpfan32 not sure if you knew but you can get the Sony 6400 as a kit with the 18-135 zoom instead of the the 16-50. The 18-135 kit also comes with a 100$ lower price than buying the camera and lens separately.

I still use the Sony 6000, perfectly decent camera, but think will move up at some point to the 6400. I am happy with the Sony 20mm 2.8 and the only lenses I vaguely want are the 24mm 1.8, 35mm 1.8 and the 18-135; I don’t feel much limited in the lenses options as I don’t really need to have 20 of them.

Want a decent telephoto? You have to buy a very expensive full frame lenses. Or adapt less expensive Canon lenses which are big as well. The 55-210 I tested was absolute garbage compared to a Canon 55-250mm IS STM.
I read somewhere about black corners of the 18-135mm which can not be corrected in older Lightroom versions like 6. Black corners looks like the same problem on the 16-50, no resolution at all + too much noise from heavy vignette correction when you need to light it up a few stops.

Thanks for the reply but I actually meant "in the real world".. I mean, I was told to expect approx 300 shots per charge with the A6000. In the real world I was scratching to get 100 shots, and even then only if I rattled them off literally one straight after the other. Messing around in the menu system could see from 100% to as low as 55-60% in less than half to 3/4 of an hour. You might ask what the heck was I doing in the menu for so long, but hey, times flies when you're having fun - well in most case it does...
Anyway, that's enough about this from me. I don't want to start anything that causes arguments. I'd love to try the A6400.. Thanks..!!!
Al

I don't know what it is that you can only take about 100 pictures on one charge with your A6000. There are a lot of possibilities that battery drainage is high.
It can be that you keep your camera switched on all the time while hanging on your neck, the eye sensor will keep telling the camera that you are using it and won't switch it to sleep mode. It can be that you are looking at the screen more then normal (I take a picture, look at the screen just to see if it is right and I switch of the camera). It is also possible that your camera or battery is not well. Did you ever tried an other battery?
I manage to get over 500 shots on one charge most of the time, but I switch off camera after the pictures have been taken, and I do not examine the pictures on the screen to much...

There have been many complaints about battery drainage when the A6000 is in storage. The question is: has this issue been addressed now?

Not just with these Sony bodies, but with ALL mirrorless cameras, battery life is more dependent on the total time the camera is powered on and displaying with the EVF or LCD...not the number of shots you take. If you're seeing less than CIPA-reported battery life, that means you have various functions in the camera left on such as wifi, apps, and/or high sleep limits on the EVF or LCD keeping them on a long time...or you are doing a lot of viewing/playback, or taking long to line up and take shots. Battery life has improved from the A6000 to the A6300 and now to the A6400. In real life, on vacation I can see 400-500 shots per charge on my A6300 with walkaround general photography, or up to 1,400 shots per battery when doing heavy burst shooting while out birding or wildlife shooting. I can't recall ever getting less than 400 on any battery.

XH1 is way over the $1000 category, so why even bring it up here?
The A6500 is in the same price range as the XH1, and it is the Sony camera with IBIS.

(concluded)

I write about this utterly cr@ppy state of camera FW/SW every now and then, and one response that I get most of the time is "but these are cameras, their primary function is taking images!" Well, guess what, "primary function of mobile phones" used to be phone calls, until Apple showed everyone how it's done.

So I can only hope that some manufacturer does wake up, smells the coffee, fires their entire SW development dept, and buys a *software* company that knows its stuff. Or maybe it will the other way round -- now that the market is in quite some turmoil... Until then, we'll just keep seeing that constant stream of bad market news, and constant moaning of how mobile phones eat everyone's cake.

As someone who wasted way too much of his youth writing config files by hand for his Unix desktop environment, I feel somewhat qualified in claiming that the last thing we need in a camera is a user-editable config file.

The Sigma trio of 16mm, 30mm and 56mm f/1.4 lenses are stupid sharp and affordable. None are stabilised though. Pick the focal length you need.

What focal length are you looking for? The Sony Zeus’s APC 24 f1.8 is plenty fast and very sharp.

Yes, Marketing departments do whatever they can to obstruct engineering to introduce the perfect camera to the market - this will hurt sales for decades as nobody will be upgrading.

Better sell under-engineered stuff that you will want to replace in couple of months.

This is the same reason why A7siii and A7000 could be the best camera but Sony continues to postpone their release, not because like they say "the engineering is not ready" or they want to "over-accomplish user expectation", but because people will stop buying the already best-selling, market-dominating A7iii and A6400.

If every camera model had everything they would all be equally expensive. The manufacturers need multiple models at different price points to attract as many customers as possible, and that's why every model has its own unique mix of features and capabilities. Sure, they could make the perfect camera, but it would be expensive. That said, I'm sure the a6500 successor will get the faster processor that's required for the improved AF.

The a6500 has been out for ages, so why just consider Sony now?

For the amazing focus tracking, for the first time in an APS-C camera. I am happy with Olympus for most things. Dynamic range is only a stop or so difference, no big deal. But AF, especially AF-C needs a lot of improvement. Sony is leading the way.

You simple want back button focusing, don’t you? The camera doesn’t seem to be the limitation here...

thanks mgreen, I started with back button focus and it seemed to complicate everything. I'll try it again, but it seems the only way to lock focus (and recompose) while avoiding it automatically changing to tracking (not only people but moving leaves, anything moving) is to toggle back and forth between Single Focus mode and Continuous which is an extra step.

Lots of zoom range is not appealing to most amateurs. If you want lots of zoom look at a Sony r100 or LX1000, etc.

As for format, 4:3 can be very attractive to people who print. It is a perfect match for 5x7", 8x10", 8.5 x 11" 11 x 14" and 16 x 20" with no cropping. To fit those prints, you have to crop a 3:2 format APS to the point where the sensor is the same size as the 4:3 sensor cameras so all the sensor size advantage goes away.

TEdolph

@tedolf - "Lots of zoom range is not appealing to most amateurs."

I don't know what you mean by "lost of zoom range", but I do know that the 18-135 zoom range is quite popular, which is why practically every manufacturer makes that zoom range now. Sony (for their APS-C mirrorless), Fuji (for their APS-C mirrorless), Canon (for their APS-C DSLR), Nikon (for their APS-C DSLR) all have 18-135 APS-C zooms. Canon introduced an 18-150 zoom for their EOS M system a couple years ago. Why the ubiquity of this 18-135/18-150 zoom range? Because zoom range is appealing to most amateurs.

@tedolf
I tend to agree with you. That Sony 16-50mm is a disgrace. Sure, the 18-135mm and 18-105mm are better options, but with M43 you get the very decent 12-60mm cheap as part of a kit. Not quite as much reach, but I prefer the wider angle (24mm vs 27mm equivalent).

The other thing with M43 is you get cheap, fast primes that are stabilised with IBIS on bodies like the G80/85 and G90/95. That more than makes up for a slightly smaller sensor and makes it better for video. Unfortunately though tracking AF can't compete with the A6400.

@tedolf
pfff! You own pentax and leica anything? Why didn't you say that rightaway?
It would have saved everybody the time to read through the rest of your nonsense and statements such as: " (I) have a hard time seeing who these Sony E mount cameras appeal to" and "I couldn't care less about tracking AF", etc.etc.

The full-frame e-mount lenses work beautifully on the A6400 and other APS-C bodies, and some are sufficiently small-sized. Including the FE 28-70 kit lens, which weighs only 295 gm. (DPR have failed to change that spec. although being notified of that several times.)

@captura
The FE 28-70mm may be small enough, but on APS-C it becomes a 42-105mm, which is not a very useful range.

I am using the a6400 as a second body to my A9 to get even more reach (1200 mm with 100-400 mm + 2x telconverter) So there's that. :)

@photomedium:

Huh?

@toth:

Yes, the Sigma primes are great values and good lenses. Those same lenses are available in m4/3 mount too. I strongly suspect Sigma makes some of the m4/3 lenses, e.g. the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 (it looks like a Sigma cosmetically). It is the Sony lenses that are either cheap and nasty, or expensive and nice.

tEdolph

Autofocus is not subjective thing though. It either works or it doesn't.

Ergo is subjective.

Just because you can get used to and learn to live with something, doesn't mean that you're comfortable eith it. The user experience of some cameras is a bit like having tinnitus, in that respect.

old school DSLR shooters are the most stubborn people on the planet.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the menus at all. I use custom Fn settings and reassign buttons too, and "My Menu" for the items that I sometimes use but not enough to put in Fn, and also for the items that are impossible to put in Fn, such as compressed/uncompressed raw.

@Adrian-Van sony jpeg customisation is actually quite extensive through picture profiles each of which also has three adjustments + arbitrary shift in WB. I went for "Clear" jpeg setting, turning up the saturation +2 contrast +1 and sharpness -2 + WB shift of two steps to the right then one down on the auto WB. Close enough to Fuji's classic chrome :) Have seen settings to mimic portra/astria/velvia films via this route too. The problem with sony's jpegs is that the default profile is too neutral and others too funky so people get upset. Even simple tweaking of the default PP makes miracles though :)

are you condemning the fuji for not having a narcissism mode.... ? err screen ?

lets warn all the 12 year old girls out there of fujis selfie defect ! and never ever mention sonys ....ahem...... menus

Bashing Sony menus is such old news.. If you can't figure out their latest menu/configuration implementation, there is something wrong with you... not the menus...

But if a menu system requires you to figure it out, then I'd say there *is* something wrong with it. A clearly and logically organized menu is always preferable.

umm it was dpr in the latest comparison between fuji and sony midsize models where we were reminded of sonyys weaks poorly orginized menu

ok??? flips flippant remark calling fuji"crippled" prompted my remark... reading the whole thread is your friend

since i dont own any sony cameras , i dont need to master their awful menus ,, the ones dpr have been mentioning since the sony Nex 7
many years ago
DPR in 2011:

"The NEX-7's menus are based on the original NEX-5's, just adding more options on top. Which is another way of saying that they haven't had the best start in life, and haven't really got any better. The overall result is a rather confusing mashup of options, with little appreciable semblance of
organization."

8 yrs later, dprs STILL mentioning menu issues in the 6400

so there s that.............

I believe that a year or 5 ago (or longer) the old NEX GUI was replaced for the same kind of GUI as can be found in the A-mount camera's. Should work just fine after a small period of get used to. But I have never used them.

I picked up a Canon 7D MkII and I had to figure out where stuff was.. there is no magic... and honestly the menus looked paged in quite similar fashion to my A9.. (and the a6400 is basically the same).. so.. yeah. I guess Canon menus suck too...

@cosinaphile - "are you condemning the fuji for not having a narcissism mode.... ? err screen ?"

Seriously? You have issues with people wanting to capture memories of themselves in photos? Without this desire to capture oneself in photos, the photo industry would have probably died a long time ago. It would probably be some very small niche hobby, like landscape painting! So don't belittle people's desire to capture themselves in photos. And don't belittle cameras that make this task a little easier, because smartphones have made it easier and smartphones have been able to kill off a lot of the camera market!

The flip-up screen is also desirable for anyone who wants to capture themselves in video, like for vlogging. There are plenty of people out there capturing themselves in video, whether it be for personal use or for creating your own Youtube channel.

The more these cameras appeal to a wide range of users, the more these cameras have a chance of surviving in the market.

Cosinaphile, I hate narcisitic people, I hate this "Genaration Me", but I need a fully articulated LCD to make my own videos, to frame myself in picture, to watch the exposure, etc, and also to protect the LCD from scratches, for instances...

All professional video cameras for video have a fully articulated LCD. Can you explain me why? Is this a professional feature, this so called narcisitic feature? Or are professional videographers more narcisistic than consumers? Camcorders have fully articulated LCD since 2000s... my old handycam has it... and it shoots SD video, on a tape... this is stupid??!!?

@cosinaphile - "i would sensibly use my fujis camera remote to frame and fire, and while connected could instantly transfer said selfie to post to instaface or selfbook"

Sure, the Fuji smartphone camera remote app is great. But can you look at your smartphone while looking directly at the camera, and not have the smartphone in the frame? That's where a fully articulating "selfie" screen is so helpful. Besides, LCD screens are already articulating. What's wrong with having them articulate a little bit more so they can rotate 180 degrees?

i hearby give up , i concede that for blogging etc , such a feature is important ...if a cameras gonnas do good video which many a camera can do now then such a feature is useful and yes , in a professional sense

consider me convinced and converted .. ive seen , so to speak , the light [ of a screen that can do a 180]

I think the OP means successor, not firmware updates, to the a6500.

@supersargas - I have an A6000.

I don't need a dual SD slot on an sub 1000$ camera, but why not have an UHS-II for faster data transfer.

Sure, the 'A6700,' but no mention by Sony of any new APS-C lenses, which we badly need.

@captura -
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/09/27/sony-strategy-12-new-lenses-coming-soon

https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-to-launch-12-more-lenses-in-2019

I'm pretty sure that out of the 12 new lenses coming for E-mount, some of them will be for APS-C. And it would seem appropriate that Sony would release "enthusiast" APS-C lenses (ie, f/2.8 zooms) to go with their new "enthusiast" APS-C body

The 12 new lenses could be anything, and this is last year's news.
Because Sony has only released 2 new APSC lenses since 2012, why should this suddenly happen now?
The new lenses, if any, might be FE lenses and lens converters.

@captura - "why should this suddenly happen now?"

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/sony-says-ok-your-are-right-we-now-will-focus-on-aps-c-again/

https://www.diyphotography.net/sony-plans-triumphant-return-to-aps-c-camera-development/

Sony spent the last couple of years focusing on FF MILC. Now they are going to return their focus to APS-C. And Sony made the right move. They've secured their position in FF MILC in preparation for Canon and Nikon's FF MILC releases. Now that they've established that they hold the advantage in FF MILC systems (bodies, lenses, technology), they can re-focus on APS-C. It's all about strategy and timing. Most companies can't do everything all at once. It's a matter of managing your resources, putting those limited resources towards specific goals at specific times. That's reality.

@captura

Two of the 12 lenses have already been launched; the 24/1.4 and 135/1.8. So we can only expect 10 lenses.

There has been plenty of speculation on what they would be, including an affordable 35/1.8 (in the mould of the 85/1.8), 500/4, 600/4, a long pro zoom (200-500) and a fast standard aps-c zoom.

Sony has confirmed that more pro teles are coming and it seems likely that they will update the a6500 with a variation of the XT-3 sensor. Such a camera would be priced around £1400 and could justify an expensive and fast (perhaps G branded) 16-50 lens.

The 24/1.4 is an FE lens. The 135/1.8 is one of the two APSC lenses which I said has been released since 2012. The 105/1.8 is the other. And maybe the 16-70, a lens plagued with sample variance issues.
Why should Sony waste resources developing new APSC lenses when Sigma and others are doing it for them?
Sony prefers to offer new FE lenses so an upgrade path to A7 & A9 bodies is clear for A6xxx owners.

@captura - "Why should Sony waste resources developing new APSC lenses when Sigma and others are doing it for them?"

The reason is obvious: they would make money off of selling new APS-C lenses. They don't make money off of Sigma lens sales. Sure, 3rd party lens support probably helps with their camera sales. But they obviously want to make money from their own lens sales as well. After all, camera companies don't *just* make money from selling cameras. A big part of their business is in selling lenses too. I'm sure they know that there is pent-up demand for lenses such as APS-C f/2.8 zooms. They just hadn't gotten around to cashing in on that pent-up demand yet, because they've been working on their FF MILC system for the last few years.

@captura - "Sony prefers to offer new FE lenses so an upgrade path to A7 & A9 bodies is clear for A6xxx owners."

But it's also to their advantage to attract more APS-C users into their system. They can then foster those APS-C users into more advanced APS-C cameras and lenses. And many of those users can then advance into FF. The goal is obviously to make it one continuous system that caters to all levels of users, regardless of which format they choose to use. It's just like DSLR systems:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sDkcvPL35PA/UsH9xlti3hI/AAAAAAAAIB8/YjYUQX2hWJs/s1600/Canon-DSLR-Lineup.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wubgBRa2PVo/Vrxfc61lUHI/AAAAAAAAACw/yZ-re6FnUPI/s1600/Nikon-Line-up.jpg

Now Sony is simply applying that successful business model to the MILC world. And they'll eventually likely own the MILC market because they are the only ones doing this. Nikon doesn't have APS-C MILC, Fuji doesn't have FF MILC, and Canon doesn't have continuity between their APS-C/FF MILC systems.

I can understand Sony's thinking about APS-c lenses. Their full frame lenses can be used on APS-c E-mount cameras, and when customers decide to migrate to full frame they'll already have lens for that system. Seems like a sound strategy to me.

@captura - "Nevertheless, Canon follows a similar strategy by not supplying new lenses for their woebegotten EOS-M models."

No, it's not really a similar strategy. Not only does Canon not supply lenses for their "woebegotten EOS M models", they also don't allow 3rd party lens manufacturers to make lenses for EOS M models. Sony offers 17 APS-C mirrorless lenses and has 3rd party support (because they allow it). Canon EOS M offers 8 APS-C mirrorless lenses and has virtually no 3rd party support (because they don't allow it). On top of that, Canon EF-M lenses are is totally incompatible with Canon RF lenses, so there is zero cross-compatibility with Canon's own APS-C and FF mirrorless lenses. That is certainly not the case with Sony's mirrorless system. There is total compatibility between all E-mount APS-C and FF lenses, because they all use a common mount. So, these are very different strategies!

@Kiril

The DPR test scene is not a lens test, it is intended to show sensor performance.

RD, how can you separate the two???

In a lens test you're looking for contrast, resolution and aberration.

In a sensor test you're looking for grain/noise, false colour, the effects of noise reduction and comparing jpeg output with raw.

How do you separate the effects of noise reduction and lens sharpness? And false color? So you’re saying the Sony colors non Sony shooters whine about could be because of the lenses? Of course grain and noise at higher ISO... anyway. You can believe the studio scene is only about the camera body. The rest of us know it’s a combination of the body and the lens...

Depends on what your priorities are: bang-for-your-buck FF with older AF technology and slower shooting speed (5fps), or APS-C with cutting edge AF and high frame rate (11fps). Also, the A7II has IBIS.

Right ... So, you want to shoot static subjects at 11fps with cutting edge AF? :)
Well, I could use 11fps when shooting static scenes at slow shutter speeds, to get that one sharp low noise photo out of 20 (or whatever number it takes). But the truth is that I can get exactly the same thing with 5fps, and shooting 11fps at slow shutter isn't always physically possible. There's a limit, you can't take 11 frames if your shutter is 1/10sec or slower. But even manual focus is good enough for such scenario. Why not test the a6400 in really tricky situations, like macro with fast moving insects, or kids & pets running and playing around. If it could successfully track a butterfly or a dragonfly or a bee, then yes, there may be value in it. People skateboarding? I'm pretty sure that my old 6D can handle it. They don't move erratically and it is possible to compose the shot before they even arrive there, easy. My 7D could take plenty of questionable quality snaps per second, so does this one.

@ecka84 - "Right ... So, you want to shoot static subjects at 11fps with cutting edge AF? :)"

No, I said, "Depends on what your priorities are." Are you pointing out your own poor reading comprehension? Obviously, Sony offers different cameras with different specs to cater to people with different priorities. That's why I said, "Depends on what your priorities are." Is that so difficult to understand?

50/1.8 is the only Sony lens I have seen with disastrous focus speed. 85GM is not very fast and possibly tamron 28-75/2.8. The other E lenses seem quite snappy especially compared to DSLR alternatives.

You would have same issues with Nikon D5 so really no net new info. Except you very blatant and misguided comment on the availability of lenses

There are several users who are happy too with sony cameras. The several people nonesense doesn't float here.

Hey Dan, they say you are really OSV.
What other IDs do you use these days beside MILC man?
You also troll other forums too. Do you want to tell everyone those IDs?

Btw, you are wrong I have a photo in my gallery....of some of my Sony cameras! LOL!!!
I can say you are ignorant when it comes to Sony. It's like you've never used one before! Hahahaha!

Kiril,
You are right about the 50 and 85. That is why I was shaking my head when someone said the A6400 would work better with the 85/1.8 than other cameras with much faster lenses. Simply not true.

Also, even many adapted lenses with the MC11 that may be fast on Canon, appear to be slower on the A6400. I am going to try this weekend, but so far from the unbiased videos (not the Sony promoters) that combo is not as good as most native lenses.

Scotty some of the native lenses feature very fast linear motors that help them track and refocus very rapidly. Canon use USM on most lenses that needs to move much further for same focus change and hence it is slower. Of course adapting lenses and the extend to which Sony optimize uuse of adapted lenses plays a role here too. It is inexplicable why A7 3rd gen cameras cannot track objects with adapted lenses on mid and high continuous drive settings. These cameras shipped almost 2 years after A9 and A9 tracks with 10 fps using Canon glass.

I do agree some of the Sony lenses do have fast motors, but not all.
And for some reason, even though Canon and Sigma lenses have fast motors, most of those lenses are not as fast on Sony (especially the longer ones). If you check Youtube, there are some videos showing if the subject is coming towards the A6400, lenses like the new Sigma 70-200 sports version have AF inconsistencies.
But this should be expected, they are not native lenses.

It is interesting how MILC man routinely accuses anyone who criticizes Sony of not knowing anything about Sony, and that they don't own Sony. And that they are fake profiles with multiple accounts. And now there is credible evidence he is guilty if multiple profiles?

Even with a photo already posted in my gallery proving i own a Sony, he called me a liar and said i didn't own Sony. So i posted a new photo for him with his name. And he called it fake and maintained that i don't own Sony and am still a fake account.

This appears to be classic Projection. Now i wonder if MILC man even owns a Sony. Not accusing him of lying, i just wonder what's real about him. Continued...

Regarding any Sony keeping up with D5 AF, well, that's a needlessly-silly statement. The only lenses on a D5 that result in slow AF are portrait lenses designed to focus slowly like the 50mm f1.4G. Even plastic-mount DX kit lenses focus quite quickly on high-end Nikon DSLRs, albeit not near-instant Nikkor-sport-optics fast. Let alone under non-ideal lighting where the D5 stomps everything except the D500 and 1DXM2.

oh look, it's fake accounts trying to stick up for each other, lol

somebody has too much time on his hands, so he spends his entire day attacking sony and leica owners with name-calling fake accounts:

@Sir 7 - "if you know how much I can't stand Sony"
https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0967371192/sony-a6400-sample-gallery-update?comment=0253529348

@Sir 7 - "I can't stand either brand. Leica sucks and so does Sony. Sony is the poor man's Leica."
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7635696805/leica-releases-firmware-updates-for-its-sl-cl-cameras-to-add-l-mount-lens-support?comment=5783508501

@Sir 7 - "Well, lookie here. I've snagged the 2 biggest Leica trolls that DPR knows."
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7635696805/leica-releases-firmware-updates-for-its-sl-cl-cameras-to-add-l-mount-lens-support?comment=7714109964

@Sir 7 - "Even with a photo already posted in my gallery proving i own a Sony"

are you referring to your so-called "gallery" of Nikon Coolpix photos?

the one that doesn't have a single sony pic in it?

you try to trash sony and leica, but you shoot with a Coolpix... the big man on campus ;-)

looks more like a serious inferiority complex to me.

You are a sad man, MIlCy. What does your ZERO photos in your gallery say about you? That you don't even have a camera? Not to insult anyone, but that was a pretty stupid thing for you to say.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself like this? It's not healthy. I feel for you, bro. Seriously...

Scotty Piper, the 85 1.8 is one of the fastest AF lenses on Sony's lineup. Yes, the A6400 would focus extremely fast and much better than most other cameras with it.

Scotty complains about the focus speed of Sony lenses. and then uses the $200 example 50 f1.8 to illustrate his point. Yeah. Lets pick the slowest, cheapest sony lens and complain that a running running directly at me, and the 50 f1.8 can't keep up. The Sony 50 f1.8 is great for what it is. A general use, cheap but quite sharp, f1.8 prime.

Then you complain about the Sigma 70-200.. Oh yeah, you mention it's not native.. You didn't more explicitly say it was deigned for Canon...

You can probably fool the Best Buy crowd, but you're not fooling anyone here...