Sony a1 review

This A1 camera is well built, the AF and image quality are fantastic BUT it is an absolute horror to set-up / configure. I have the A7R and A7R2 and for an hobbyist, the switch to the A1´s configuration is rather painful...

May 16, 2021permalink

Menus are completely different and it’s a very advanced camera with many many options. Definitely takes time if you want to fully customize it.

Jul 18, 2021permalink

Too bad you didn’t include the Leica SL2 in the comparisons. Similar price similar speed and resolution and better sealing and design. (And better lenses, agreed at a high price.)
And very reliable (professional ?), no EVF problems.
And in my experience also better menus and handling. (Weaker flash support, but not important for me.)

May 11, 2021*permalink

Thats a funny post altough very false.

SL2 having similar speed :-)
SL2 is not even close on speed of AF/AE calculations, not even close on actual AF result, has much slower sensor generating much more rolling shutter, fps ha ha

Better lenses :-)
Leica lenses have signicantly slower AF and are much heavier. How large is a Leica 50/f1.2 AF lense? How large is a Leica 600mm AF lens? How large is Leica 12-24/f2.8?

May 12, 2021permalink

craigwell47

Wo betide anyone crossing swords with Sony owners by challenging their perceived supremacy. Sony GM pro-lenses some of the best however they are also heavy-duty and not cheap either. Leica and Sony optics offer something different. Thank goodness for that. Each to his own.

May 15, 2021permalink

narainj

Have owned the SL and SL2 in the past. They are both lovely cameras. Now have the A1 and this is simply not accurate.

Jul 4, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

The A 1 has a bad EVF blackout problem.

May 11, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

There is no top LCD to see if the camera is in sleep mode which makes it worse. The EVF often won't turn back on when you bring it to your eye if it turned off from not being used.
So all you see is black.
A lot of owners are complaining that the EVF turns off too quickly and then won't turn back on, so they miss a lot of shots.
It looks like a significant issue Sony can fix with FW.
Owners are putting tape on the EVF sensor so the camera thinks its always in use as a work around. But that kills the battery.
I'd expect this to be the first issue Sony addresses with FW. And having to switch AF between types of subjects next. Others complain they miss shots because when in 'animal' AF mode, it doesn't work with birds, and in bird mode it doesn't work with any other type of animal. People mode doesn't work with any type of animal and you can't see which mode you last set unless you did into the menus.

May 11, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Here is one of the threads about the problem. Looks other Sonys have the problem
" had it happen a dozen times with my A7RIv recently."
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64942283

May 11, 2021*permalink

This issue is completely resolved with FW1.10

Jul 3, 2021permalink

narainj

Whatever issues there may have been with the A1's EVF have been resolved.

Jul 4, 2021permalink

crazyorloco

Not anymore. There's been an update (Released June 29th. version 1.10)

Sep 7, 2021permalink

Cool that A1 preserves dynamic range at high fps and has low rolling shutter, no matter high resolution and electronic shutter.
This must be something for CaNikon to strive for in their next ML offerings, as eg the R5 really suffers on those accounts so it has to revert back to mechanical shutter and slow fps to preserve picture dynamic range and strait lines.

May 9, 2021permalink

nilsjohan

Really like the consistency Sony has with memory cards in A1, A7s3 and probably the cameras to come. You can choose to have dual high speed CFexpress cards or you can have dual UHS-II SD cards. There is continuity from previous cameras cards and you can get state of the art cards if you like with redundancy storage.
Comparre to Canon ML who has mixed card slots and overheating. So the Canon fast card benefit is limited since lack of redundancy and its overheating when using fast storage film formats.

May 7, 2021permalink

CFexpress cards type A are THREE times more expensive than other CFexpress cards. So unless money is of no issue to you, then go for it.
And by the way I own the R5 and never had an overheating issue. End of story.

May 7, 2021*permalink

I think it's twice the price per GB at the moment, not 3 times, and it's high because only Sony is selling those cards, why should Sony not make as much profit as possible? CFE-b cards are cheaper because there is competition there, but don't worry, 2 new competitors are entering the CFE-a market, so prices will quickly go down.

May 8, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

A 2 TB Type B card is $999 and 2TB of Type A cards is $5000
So it could be 5x times more depending on your need.
Imagine buying a $6500 camera and then paying $5000 more for memory cards.
Delkin needs to make those cheaper Type A cards ASAP

May 11, 2021permalink

For most people SD cards are all they need for the A1. The buffer is deep and the camera will shoot at 30FPS regardless of the card speed.

Unless you are shooting lots of high speed bursts back to back to back, you don’t need the CF-A cards.

You can even write 8k to cheap V60 memory cards.

Jun 9, 2021permalink

Marc Honore

What is it with all the delays fulfilling A1 orders? You can’t get one anywhere in northern Europe. The retailers cannot even say when they can fill their backlog of orders. Many people have paid for these cameras months ago and are still waiting. Does anyone have any idea what the reason for the delays is and when Sony might be able to clear the backlog of orders.

May 5, 2021*permalink

NarrBL

There is a covid epidemic, which you may want to keep in mind.

In particular, it's affected availability of chips. Apple is also on hold for many things they'd like to complete and sell, as just one example.

May 6, 2021permalink

narainj

Freely available now.

Jul 4, 2021permalink

Its amazing how Sony in 2021 has delivered the best FF camera ever made and lenses such as the GM 50/1.2 that bests all other 50/1.2mm lenses, and the GM 35 etc. Seeing the Sony evolution its as if CaNikon are asleep, especially Nikon are falling further and further behind. Are we seeing the beginning of the end for Nikon?

May 4, 2021*permalink

The differences between Sony, Nikon & Canon is really small, so folks who are heavily invested in their lenses would be very hesitant to jump ship. Hence sales should continue with all three of these major brands. Competition is good.

May 4, 2021permalink

There will probably remain some legacy Nikon users that don't have the budget nor the energy to change up for something better. But how many new users will choose Nikon given they are so behind in their equipment evolution??

May 5, 2021permalink

DavidRay

Jen, yes I agree!

Wow! Sony is really leaving all other manufacturers in the dust! So embarrassing... After the Alpha 1 was released, Canon and Nikon had to quickly announce vapor cameras (R3) just to stay relevant!

May 5, 2021*permalink

Unfortunately the Canon R5 is still in the #1 spot.

May 7, 2021permalink

Sorry, no R5 in top.

The A1 is best FF camera according to DPReview and others.

Amazon says A7iii is the best selling FF camera, for 3 years now!

Hopefully Canon will launch a more succesful camera in 2022.

May 7, 2021*permalink

@DavidRay apparently the new Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 are using the A1 sensor too, at least a customized version of that sensor. It seems like Sony decided to allow competition to use its latest sensors, but probably giving itself a 1-year exclusivity.

May 8, 2021permalink

It has impressive specs, but is not the best FF camera. Or only if specs is the only thing you use in a camera.
In real life other things are also important like handling and menus. And of course lenses. How fast you can get access to the features you need. Or if it is robust enough for adverse circumstances.
And if you enjoy the use of the camera. And unfortunately this Sony is for me also no joy to use, it feels uninspiring. (Yes, difficult to describe, but so it is for me.)
The Leica SL2 and the Leica lens system (all L-mount lenses but also M and R lenses) give me a better feeling and more “inspiration”.
So for me the SL2 is a better FF camera (it is also close specwise, with the exception of AFc, but I typically use AFs and prefer it in this mode to the A1.)

May 11, 2021*permalink

One example (because you will probably not believe me) from daily use.
The SL2 offers a multishot mode. It offers only 187 MP compared to the 200 MP of the A1. But it is all done inside the camera (no pc sw needed). If you use this professionally then this is MUCH better than in the A1. Additionally it can also correct motion (up to a certain degree). So the actual results are much better than with the A1. Important is also the high quality of the SL Summicrons when used in these circumstances.
This is only one (for me important) difference between the Leica and the A1.
Now you can say, but this was invented by Panasonic. True but if the results are better, then this is what really counts for me ...

Of course dpr tells the truth, that this feature exists in the A1. But they do not tell the complete truth, that this feature has been implemented in other cameras in a more efficient way (professional) and with additional options that help in daily/frequent use. I always wonder why ...

May 11, 2021permalink

Let’s hope that Nikon will not die. Competition leads to progresses.

May 16, 2021permalink

Yes BossMan

BEST IS YET TO COME?

I've tried to imagine what the Digital Camera landscape would be like, if it was not driven by Sony's desire TO BE THE BEST AT IT. The competitive nature of Sony and it's capable technology makes it impossible to ignore the Sony camera brand.

Sony's a1 is just more proof that today's camera technology is providing all photographers with the best cameras ever.

JUST THINK where would we be if the SONY CAMERA BRAND was not in the middle of the competition, insisting on pushing the "slow pokes to get their sneakers on" for the race of their life.

Competition that gives photographers of every level and age the best choices.

The wake up call is ringing.

May 3, 2021permalink

Seems some brands havent heard the call yet :-). Nikon still sleeping. Canon at least tried to rush some products, but resulting in overheating cameras.

May 3, 2021*permalink

Well, sincerely, this article is 2 weeks old. Which means you were late on your sneakers too. So, you 2 weeks, Canon 2 years, Nikon 2 decades and Pentax 2 centuries ;-)

May 3, 2021permalink

Yes BossMan

"SLOW POKES" chasing?

My comments 11 days later don't start and end with the a1 review. The BIG PICTURE for me started when Sony launched product after product, steps that became bigger in each succeeding step, as they pulled away from the "SLOW POKE" competition.

That Sony SPIRIT FORCED THE PACK INTO A CHASE.

Sony convinced me with their 2015 introduction of the a7R II, that "SONY DIGITAL" was at a professional level, a money making quality level.

To me photography is about the LIGHT, the GLASS and the IMAGES.

It's a gift: Technology that can create ART out of LIGHT, GLASS and IMAGES.

Delighted creative user of the Sony a7r II, Pentax K1 II, and Panasonic's Lumix S1H. S1H has put my photography into MOTION.

May 4, 2021*permalink

Congrats! I did see you are wise still at the OP. I agree with (and liked) what you wrote. I just could not miss the joke. People say that I may loose a friend but won't miss a joke. That is an exaggeration, of course.
Speaking seriously while not letting aside the lighter side (:-o), I am using mirrorless since the seventies, when I started to use the mirror up feature in 120 SLR's because that increases definition and allows slower speeds on tripod and even handheld. Therefore, I am earlier than you! ***joke***
My view cameras too remain mirrorless after I load the film holder. Then, since my first DC I was aware that someday the mirror would not be needed anymore. My last OVF camera was the A900. Then I got the NEX-7, A77 and A99 as soon as they were released, freeing myself of that burden, awkward ritual of compose / raise mirror / shoot. The great A99 and my Nikon D3X became obsolete, so I traded them.

May 4, 2021*permalink

Same as you, my first A series was the RII. I still keep it and added 1 RII and 2 RIV. This means that for my workflow I don't need the A1 right now. But I am aware that there is so much to be improved and so many features to be added in cameras. I just hope that the market justify R&D cost for a long time. Meanwhile, I just wish that some day soon someone in the industry realizes that the square sensor is the most important implementation that can benefit all kinds of users.
Enjoy your gear, have a nice day.

May 4, 2021permalink

I live in NY and went from Nikon, tried and rented the Sony and finally went with Canon. And ever so often I go to B&H and venture into the Sony booth and check out the latest & greatest Sony cameras for years now. And I could never understand why the Sony back screen seem so antiquated and the menus so counter intuitive. Listen I want Sony to compete with Canon, otherwise Canon will just give us slower improvements. Competition is good and as you all seem like Sony fans user you should want Sony to improve otherwise people like me will never even consider jumping over to Sony.

May 4, 2021*permalink

Yes BossMan

Hi Ze De Boni

My age has given me the opportunity of using a long product line of cameras. Leica M3,M4,M5 and SL, Zeiss Contarex System, Hasselblads, Rollieflex, Linhof, Canon, Nikon. In my FILM DAYS, for me, Contarex is my working 6 body system attached to 15 Zeiss Contarex lenses. All other film formats were held together also with ZEISS glass.

Even now, in the DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY AGE, ZEISS GLASS and the LOOK it brings, is still the most important thing to me: THE IMAGE.

Being a photographer was like a paid vacation, even in the hard times, photography put food on the table and LIFE IN MY LIFE. It gave me something to shoot for outside of myself. Ze De Boni, it's nice to hear, it sounds like your really committed to image taking.

Best to you and Brazil

PS: I also sent you a message.

May 4, 2021permalink

nilsjohan

The A1 seems to have it all - master of all trades. And there are lenses to match it.

May 2, 2021*permalink

Menus still remind me of Nokia phones of the 90's. Sony's needs to improve this if they expect to keep competing with Canon.

May 2, 2021permalink

Menus are just fine on sony. As a user of sony cameras i hope they dont make them like canons.

May 3, 2021permalink

"Menus still remind me of Nokia phones of the 90's. Sony's needs to improve this if they expect to keep competing with Canon"

What a joke! It's Canon trying to keep up with Sony technology, not the other way around.

May 3, 2021permalink

jimread

I bought a s/h A7r ii and was a bit anxious about the software after reading bits about how poor it was on here. When I received the camera I went through it, didn't have to look at the handbook and haven't had a problem. I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Cheers

May 3, 2021permalink

As the con's are state in DPreview
-Rear screen a bit small, low-res against similarly priced competitors
Fact!

May 3, 2021permalink

@DavitorR5 - I got it! By complaining about Sony's screens and menus you show that you dissatisfied with your gear and plan to jump to Sony. Why a Canon user would be so worried about the features from another brand? Sony users are fully adapted to to these minor limitations, mainly because the long list of advantages is unbeatable.

May 3, 2021permalink

I live in NY and ever so often I go to B&H and venture into the Sony booth and check the latest & greatest Sony cameras for years now. And I could never understand why Sony back screen seem so antiquated and the menus so counter intuitive. And even on this flagship model which I tried out of curiosity. Still the same. Listen I want Sony to compete with Canon, otherwise Canon will just give us slower improvements. Competition is good and as a Sony user you should want Sony to improve otherwise people like me will never even consider jumping over to Sony.

May 4, 2021permalink

Canon IS just GIVING slower improvements. Almost one decade to adopt mirrorless. Slow release of native lenses, blocking 3rd party lenses. Late in eye-focus, linear focusing motors, BSI and stacked sensors. Lagging in sensor performance. I understand that it is hard to move when you are using a leading brand. But when your brand stops leading in development and improvements, the questions must be directed to that brand. It would be interesting to learn what you have written about Canon. Did you complain about their slowness and bad decisions?
Sony is competing with Canon since long and in some aspects it is far ahead. Your argument is laughable, just trying to point a minor feature for which Canon has nice solutions. But LCD screen and menus are not relevant for the brands battle, no serious user will make decisions based on those specs. Keep going to the stores and dream of advanced cameras that are beyond your reach. And enjoy the nice menus and screens of your outdated camera.

May 4, 2021permalink

Like I said Sony menus are still lacking behind the competition as explained in DP Review article. And if your going to pay $ 6,500.00 w/tax - $ 7,000.00 that a lot of money for something lacking behind cameras that cost $2,000. Kind of embarrassing.

May 4, 2021*permalink

You are lying again, from the review pro list:

"Excellent menus and responsive touchscreen interface"

May 4, 2021permalink

DPReview "Rear screen a bit small, low-res against similarly priced competitors."
What sticks out like a sore thumb is LOW-RESOLUTION. Listen my advice is for to checkout your self and compare. Thank you.

May 5, 2021permalink

With a 9.44 million-dot OLED viewfinder I couldn't care less about the resolution of the back screen.
LCD sucks anyway compared to OLED regardless resolution.

May 5, 2021permalink

Leitz, that’s like saying I don’t want to see how sharp my shots are. Makes no sense. Thanks anyway.

May 7, 2021permalink

In the OLED viewfinder you can see the real quality and sharpness of your shots, far better than on any rear LCD.

May 7, 2021*permalink

Leitz again this makes no sense. First, you can't magnify the viewfinder and second the viewfinder is tiny compared to rear screen. Listen there's a reason why DPreview indicated that the LOW RESOLUTION on the rear screen is the #1 negative on this camera. Maybe not for you but for the many IT'S A BIG FACTOR. Thanks for your input.

May 7, 2021permalink

Lying again, even my A6500 and Nex-7 can magnify the picture in the viewfinder. The rear screen is small compared to the view in the viewfinder, pick up a A1 and see for your self. Now please stop with your low res BS, it's a minor thing, the viewfinder res and magnification is far more important, others are lagging far behind on this much more important feature.

May 7, 2021*permalink

So why would DPreview state this as the # 1 negative for the Sony A1???
Rear screen a bit small, low-res against similarly priced competitors
30fps bursts only available in JPEG/HEIF/lossy compressed Raw
30fps bursts are lens-dependent
High-res shot modes require desktop software to combine images; no motion correction yet available
EVF drops in resolution during C-AF, or if you choose high FPS modes
Users must manually select between human, animal or birds for Eye AF
Battery life is just okay compared to other flagships

May 7, 2021*permalink

Whatever.....

May 7, 2021permalink

The multishot or high res feature of the A1 is actually stone age. You need a PC and cannot even correct for motion artefacts.
Others (Panasonic, Leica) can do it much better (completely inside camera with optional motion correction). If your business depends upon this feature then the Sony A1 is really a show stopper. (You loose a lot of time when using the A1 for this.)

Why does dpr not describe it in this way ? (fair and unbiased ?) What is their experience with other brands than Sony ? What is their motivation ?

May 11, 2021*permalink

The A1 has it all, perhaps but it is an absolute ugly duckling to set-up and configure. Aweful !

May 16, 2021permalink

andidas

Can we see a demo of the improved smart phone app control? That was a partial change vs older Sony lines.
I.e. touch focus triggering, etc.

May 2, 2021permalink

I am looking at the video studio scene and the A1 has a clinical looking green tint. This looks even worse right next to the R5 image that trends towards magenta. I would hope that an expensive camera would not have any tint.

I know these things can be corrected but getting green out of an image from the start is not the best situation.

May 2, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Other say there is a yellowish tint ... differently calibrated monitors? Or not a neutral viewing environment with balanced daylight bulbs for print or, or for web presentations? Just asking, since you ask for the best situation for a neutral starting point.

May 2, 2021*permalink

Just have a look at the video test scene and put the box over a white area. This has nothing to do with daylight bulbs and printing. My monitor is calibrated and the studio scene is supposedly shot to be correct. White should be white or is that somehow the viewer's fault when the web page surrounding the image is very white and neutral.

What do you see?

May 2, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Bassman2003: Jpg or raw?

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@Bassman2003

> White should be white

Indeed. And it is in Sony images. In R5 images, "white" has red tint; presumably, for those "beautiful skin tones".

When you open Video Performance page, selection region is placed so that part of the radial target and text ("As with you,...") is visible. I took screenshot, loaded it into the editor, and used color picker to measure whites on the radial target.

What I get is near-perfect whites on A1 (87.5 87.5 87.5 and the likes), and red tint on R5 (93.3 90.6 91.0 and similar). R5's image is BTW brighter.

Since you by default regard the (red-tinted) whites in R5 image as perfect, no wonder that you see green tint in the (perfectly white) whites of A1.

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@cbphoto123

> Magnar W & vadimis give it a rest.

Hmm... It's not me (or Magnar, for that matter) who's making one false statement after another; I'm simply replying to them.

> In the the video stills the A1 has a very strong green
> tint. U can see it clearly in all whites. <...> In the stills section
> in both Raw and JPG the Sony colour looks to be accurate

I was specifically talking about Video Stills Comparison tool on the Video Performance page. Please re-read my message.

Or you understand that, but still insist on green tint in A1 images?

Look, frankly, my first post to this thread had two purposes: 1) to give actual answer to something I found to be very wrong, 2) to serve as a bookmark for me, to refer to it later when people will again start talking about "color science". You guys see what you want to see, not what is really there (my honest opinion).

May 3, 2021permalink

@vadims Hold on here, I never said anything about 'regarding the R5 image', so please take the chip off of your shoulder. I am glad you took the measurements. My post was to bring attention to the look of the Sony image as in the stills comparison, these perceived color casts do not exist. I am looking to possible purchase a Sony camera, not bash it.

@Magnar, video does not use jpeg, so I would direct you to the Video Comparison as my comments are related to that scene.

When I see white web background around the studio scene, I think more likely than not, it is a solid reference as a bright neutral. As I stated, both cameras look to have a tint next to the bright white web page background. In thumbing through many other cameras in the video list, it seems the video color is al lover the place. Many cameras can not get the whites, white without a tint. The only example I could find of the new, popular names would be the R6, but its blacks look crushed...

May 3, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Bassman2003: Color is extremely context sensitive, and we NEVER judge color from absolute values. We always judge accorting to some key factors. The white frame is not more white than what your monitor os calibrated to, i.e. 5000K or 6500K.

May 3, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Bassman2003

> I never said anything about 'regarding the R5 image'

Right. But R5 and A1 images are next to each other on that Video Stills Comparison tool. And, as Magnar said above, "color is extremely context sensitive". R5 image's whites have red cast to them; A1 image's whites may naturally be *perceived* as having green cast (being viewed next to R5's).

> please take the chip off of your shoulder

Can we please have a civilized conversation for a change, and stick to discussing the topic at hand?..

May 3, 2021permalink

I think we are getting there now that we are beyond the threat of me bashing Sony...

My assertion is exactly that, color is relative. In this context, the web page background looks to be pure 'digital' white. Both cameras have a perceived color cast relative to the pure digital white surrounding them. It matters not how my monitor is calibrated as this relationship is a constant. Yes, the Sony is underexposed which plays a part.

I mentioned in my original post that the Sony's color is made worse by being next to the magenta trending R5. You two are making some kind of controversy out of this. BTW, nobody has answered my question - What do YOU see? Are you trying to tell me and others that there is not an apparent visual green cast to the Sony image represented here? Because I still see it if I cover up the R5 image or change the R5 to a different camera.

BTW, there is a little bit of a green cast to the 8k example video of the trucks in quite a few shots.

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Bassman2003: A monitor calibrated to 5000 K will look noticeable warmer than a 6500 K monitor, and the difference will affect the balance of all the colours, but not the same way for all of them. This is not sensed as a linear shift.

May 3, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@cbphoto123

Before answering your question, allow me to do a little detour.

In mid-90th, I was choosing a new CRT monitor; I narrowed my choice to a Sony Trinitron one, and an iiyama (sorry, do not remember exact models). I had both delivered, and started to compare... And couldn't decide, both were great. Then, in the most unscientific way, I just started viewing pictures and counting times I liked Sony or iiyama rendition... This went on till I viewed an image of explosion w/lots of fires on both. WOW, there was no contest: iiyama looked so much more... alive, to the point I thought I almost could feel the heat. My count stopped, as it was no longer needed. I was heavily involved with game graphics at the time, so iiyama won hands down for me.

(TBC)

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

(continued)

Was there anything wrong with the Trinitron? Not at all, it provided faithful reproduction, it just wasn't punchy. IME, Sony has a long history of providing neutral rendition, which could be great for some applications, but is not everyone's cup of tea (wasn't mine either, at some point in time).

> Vadimis.. in video stills, the R5 has a slight red cast.
> Would you agree that the A1 has a green cast?

Well, I'd love to (even just for world peace...), but that's not what I saw. I did honest checks with color picker, and A1 whites (in that radial target) were remarkably, *ridiculously* even, white (neutral). When I say "ridiculously", I mean I didn't expect stuff like 87.5 87.5 87.5, and yet that (accuracy down to the least significant digit) was what I saw more often than not.

(TBC)

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

(concluded)

Objective data aside, do I see a cast in A1 images "subjectively"? Again, I have to say I don't. That said, I don't "see" "red cast" in R5 image either; R5 image is perfectly OK (color-wise) to me. It is a wee bit warmer, but who cares? It is only when I started to scrutinize the image with the color picker that I saw the differences that I reported above.

I liked Canon color rendition since I saw first 1Ds images by Michael Reichmann, and I shot with FF Canon DSLRs long enough to know what they are capable of (see my gear, I still own all that stuff). And I'm shooting with Sony MILCs long enough to know there are no "issues" with their colors whatsoever: they provide faithful reproduction, which (if one is after a particular effect) can be trivially altered with in-camera settings (for OOC jpegs), or in post (for RAWs).

May 3, 2021permalink

@Magnar, you are the one talking about monitor calibration at 5000k. My monitor has never been calibrated at this temperature.

May 3, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Bassman2003: Monitors are calibrated to match the intended presentation of the final work. So using more tahan one profile for the monitor is not well known in professional environments.

Others might have a different workflow from you. Then they don't see what you see as "pure digital white" - which is a terrible term, since digital is the 0 and 1 numbers we never see. Saying "what we expect to be white" would describe perceptual white much better.

5000 K is common for a lot of printed work. 6500 K for monitor/web etc. When working with cold or warm paper surfaces, you also have to compensate for this is your work is color critical.

May 4, 2021*permalink

Great review of a great camera. Now its only to save up :-)

May 2, 2021permalink

beacher

Does anyone know why Sony has stopped producing the FULLY articulated screens? I have them on both my A77II and my A9, use the different orientations all the time, and although I'd love to snag a newer camera, I simply can’t imagine shelling out the money for one without the capability!

Apr 30, 2021permalink

The A77 articulation was great. Very useful. Not sure why they abandoned that scheme. It doesn’t provide a very useful selfie/vlogging mode as the LCD is below the camera (I think) but it ha does the portrait shooting mode well if I remember correctly.

A7sIII has a fully articulating screen. I guess don’t just doesn’t see it being useful enough? I’m not sure.

Personally I would welcome the A77 style articulation but don’t care for the A7sIII style articulation.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Sony designed its mirrorless cameras with "5 fundamentals" in mind, and one of them is compactness, which is also why E-mount was made smaller than A-mount. Those fully articulated screens are amazing but also quite large.

May 3, 2021permalink

Ruediger-58

I’m in the system since Minolta film camera days. Then continuing with A-mount and changing to E-mount. What I have observed over the years is that Sony just changes what they like to change. Don’t get me wrong. I’m happy with my A7iii and A6500 with all the glass, but I’m seriously considering a switch to the R5. It will cost me a lot, but there is so much which is increasing the frustration. Dust on the sensor (only A9ii and A1 allow a closed shutter durning lens change), some cameras support focus with Sony’s apps some other not, some have articulated screen some not, all kind of bracketing, but no focus bracketing, just to name my most relevant.
All top cameras today can technically take great pictures, so more and more it boils down to usability of the camera as a tool. Not knowing what will be added to the next version and what will be dropped is not building confidence.

May 9, 2021permalink

Sc1920

Where’s the part about the EVF switching not functioning properly in direct sun? Might be important for the possible Olympics this year and sports shooters.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Happened to me once since I’ve had the camera. I put my finger over the EVF sensor and it fixed itself. No need to turn off and on. Sony is aware and I suspect will adjust the sensitivity via firmware.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@MikeRan
Gosh - you sometimes DO sound like a Sony spokesperson. No disrespect as it’s not an easy style to emulate....😊

May 1, 2021permalink

Yxa

Kandid
Sometimes?

May 1, 2021permalink

I’m not going to say what you sound like Kandid...

May 1, 2021*permalink

@MikeRan
Go on - give it a go - mind you as a ‘Sony spokesperson stylist’ you would want to be polite I guess❓How about ‘the wisdom of Solomon’ or ‘the eloquence of......an eloquent person’ - bit of a fail there but it should be enough to get you started 😊

May 1, 2021permalink

Kandid leave all these things aside most important is that you get your cheques from canon for shilling for them.

Has it come for last month?

May 2, 2021permalink

@zxaar
So dull, so unimaginative....do try and jazz up the insults a bit to at least create SOME interest 🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱😴😴😴😴😴😴...

May 2, 2021*permalink

Archer66

@Kandid
Gosh - you always DO sound like a emoji spokesperson

May 3, 2021permalink

😊

May 3, 2021permalink

It happened to me in Dubai... The optical detector should have been left on top like on the A7R2. I never had this issue with the A7R2.

May 16, 2021permalink

StandaR0123

Only subj. opinion, but i have 42mpx a7r2, love R series, almost perfect -only was wating to upgrade ( long long time and vainly) for better video specification- 10 bit 4:2:2 all-I, some slowmo,DCI +24p would be nice, better- bigger display...i have no interest of things like great fps more for sport photos, greater viewfinder, blackouts, bird or animal Af😂etcetc...but it seems no way 10bit video in 7r serie( btw. how old is 10 bit GH5?🤔), instead they made pretty almost 2x expensive a1, hmmm, my feelings in a simple nutshell - again 3inch display in 2021 for this price level on" flagship"?!!:-(, sorry sony...I am starting slowly to watch RF system( also great AF+ lenses),just compare price r5/r6 + 28-70/2 vs only a1 body( and plus at least 1 second battery, cf express card type A for all options, card reader), ufuf...:-(And canon c70 even red!!! komodo began with RF mount, so it is almost sure, that new canon cinema cameras with RF ( main FF) are on the way...

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Feel free to invest where you want to invest.
3.0” vs 3.2” is kind of a nitpick.
For video there is little reason on the A1 to use Cf-A cards. You’re better off with larger 256GB V90 cards for substantially less money. Also you say you need to include an extra battery for the A1 but not for the R5?

Again feel free to justify however you like but you make some puzzling decisions in your decision matrix.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

StandaR0123

It is evidently, you are fan of Sony and A1 even with price, and it is ok, if it is good for you. I only maybe wanted to express- i am sure not only mine- opinion of people, who are not so happy with sony marketing, so btw. „nitpick“ display had to be only example, just metaphor of this fact.
So shortly - is the Sony A1 the best all-round digital camera in one body currently available?Yes, no doubt, I agree.
„However, the price seems to be at a real premium over the competition, putting the camera easily into Leica territory. Most photographers don't need 50mp images at 30fps, and who really needs 8K video, except for professional videographers? So whilst we'd love to own a Sony Alpha 1, we'd ultimately feel guilty for spending £6500 on a camera.“ – from ephotozine review .Good light!

Apr 30, 2021permalink

I don’t feel guilty for having spent $6500 on an A1. I’m quite enjoying using it.

I’m simply saying the difference between 3.2” and 3.0” lcd which you stated is a nitpick. It’s a crazy “weakness” to feel guilty about spending the money on.

But if the 0.2” larger screen is that important to you, then by all means, choose a different camera.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ MikeRan: You are critisized because you enjoy your camera gear ... hilarious!

May 1, 2021*permalink

I would relly like to have this "do it all very well" camera. Will need to sell the A9 first.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

At this point, pretty much everyone would love to have the A1. People are just trying to justify that they don't need it, and trying to find flaws to feel better, but it's not easy to find any flaw other than the price.

May 3, 2021permalink

Indeed!

May 3, 2021permalink

itisasitis

Ah, referring to the good old backyard hobby bird photographer with a 10,000€ camera and lens setup ;) Seems like an absolute beast of a camera though, awesome to see manufacturers pushing the boundaries as it inevitable trickles down to more affordable models over time.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

SR Hadden

You ever see a movie called, The Big Year? Apparently some birders (formerly known as bird photographers) will sink into bankruptcy, joblessness and divorce just to observe and photograph birds. Now, that's dedication!

May 1, 2021permalink

itisasitis

Haven't seen it - thanks for the tip! And yes, I can see how that is the case.

May 2, 2021*permalink

Barry Duggan Photography

And to think, I know I'll enjoy my homemade pinhole camera more than this.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

GeffBourke

The noise is better on the A1 :-)

Apr 29, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

Personally, I have far more respect for someone that either has an actual DPR image gallery and or link to their outside one then proceeds to critic images as opposed to so many that do the same an have little to zero images. Not that having an image gallery qualifies one or not having one disqualifies anyone.

All three top brands, Canon, Sony, and Nikon deliver excellent IQ in an wide range of Cameras. That's not some true issue folks can debate. IMO. For now, Sony has the highest specs for an FF Mirrorless Camera but also the highest price among those three brands when it comes to mirrorless FF.

Like I have always stated, when the average joe/sue buyers that also understands photography gets their hands on the different brands Cameras top models as they are released, then we will really truly know far more. IMO.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

So if we don’t have a gallery we don’t understand photography?

I do agree that bashing the sample gallery is heavily misguided and generally the people that do it are either arrogant, or just trolling on the product being demonstrated. (That’s not to say that specific images can’t be pointed to, to suggest a weakness or flaw in a lens, for instance.)

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

BackToNature1

Read above.

"Not that having an image gallery qualifies one or not having one disqualifies anyone."

Furthermore, fact is that the T-word has been literally weaponized to make just about any claim about anyone. Without any factual proof. So two wrongs don't make a right. Do I necessarily like folks talking about an given gallery without any real context to how and or why it was taken, NO. But folks are entitled to their opinions.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exk-9pbj2Rk

This is exactly what i love about YouTube reviewers. You can tell the differences between the pixel peeping nerds and real photographers. And believe me there's quite a big difference.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

@DavitorR5

"differences between the pixel peeping nerds and real photographers."

Depending on the purpose on the given image, I guess one could be both. Sometimes I think noise and or whatever is just what the image needs but sometimes I want it almost perfect. Sometimes you might not have a choice. All depends. It's never determines who's real or not. I loves this guys tip number #13(Will Goodlet). I don't care about brands, all I care about is good information.
--------------

Will Goodlet
16K subscribers

Taking Sharp Bird Photos | In depth
222,623 views•Aug 18, 2020

Apr 28, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

This guy is best bird Photographer around. If you are into bird photography you know who he is. He doesn't have as many subscribers, but he does have more talent. And that is what matters.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtwRcH2ucwcROcEFwbg_wg

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Seeing is believing!
If somebody like Mark Smith tells me that camera X has an awesome autofocus I tend to believe him since he has thousands of pictures to back it up.
If I accidentally watch Tony and his wife, I immediately regret that I wasted my time!
So yes, if I can see some of your better pictures I know If I am talking to a serious photographer or some angry kid posting for his mothers basement!

Apr 28, 2021permalink

ffking

Out of genuine interest, what's the dynamic range of a modern EVF like - how does it handle strong contrast? I assume it's not dissimilar to the rear screen, which has its limitations as well as strengths - so it gives you a clue as to what you can expect in a JPEG but not what can be extracted from the RAW - but it's not something I've seen discussed much and I haven't tried one.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Rear screens tend to be LCD. EVFs are OLED which has substantially more DR than LCD. Probably impossible to quantify without a scientific test which also would be affected by the sensor dynamic range which may not be the same while framing as while taking a shot.

That said I never felt modern EVFs lacking in the DR department.

A fair question.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

ffking

^^ - that's interesting - thank you!

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Slaginfected

EVFs are pretty small, means the pixels on them are as small as the "pixels" on the sensors in cameras, and that goes hand in hand with a decrease in "DR". As MikeRan noted, (O)LED works better in general because by the way it works it provides (way) better blacks, and resulting from that higher "DR" than LCD variants.

With that said, there is always the possibility to compress an EV range to the output, so you can see the dark and the bright parts the sensor is able to "see" even if the display is not really capable of dealing with such a range natively. In the end this is what you are doing in LR & Co. anyway, and is what the camera is doing when processing things into JPG, for example.

And yes, you will see if a display is crippled with too low "DR", but that would be also a death sentence to a camera, i.e. you can expect it to be high enough for normal purposes.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Can anyone tell us if the A1 has the same star eater algorithm as the previous models?

Apr 28, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

I have asked the same question, but I have not seen any star eater night sky tests with the A1.

My qualified guess, from experience with several Sony cameras, is that this is a non-issue with such a high megapixel sensors, since the "star eater" just affects a small matrix with pixels, smoothing out stars that you else could confuse with hot pixels. Also, the filtering seems to be weaker with newer camera models, and some even say that the A7rIII doesn't have the star eater (I have tested, they are wrong. I use this camera for tracked deep sky photography myself). I have seen lots of excellent tracked deep sky photographs made with the 12 Mp Sony FF cameras too.

For those doing night sky photography with the camera on a tripod, the spatial filtering in Sony cameras is a non-issue.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Smoothing is not a big problem. Many astrophotographers shrink stars so the milky way or the nebulas can pop out but smoothing and turning stars green when tracking pinpoint stars is just awful and there is no workaround. I want to know if this issue is fixed, cause the a7iv is on the way and people asking for uncooked raw data from Sony since a7 mark 1 series.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Slaginfected

If I remember correctly the whole thing started with the A7rII, which incidently was also the first sporting a BSI sensor. That comes with the problem of having larger amounts of "hot" pixels even under more normal shooting conditions, so Sony devised a way to get rid of these even in the RAW data, after people noted all these outliers in their images. I suppose Sony increased the quality of their production processes in all these years, but you cannot really avoid the root of the problem. Sony also changed the way the algorithm itself works to yield better results.

The first generation A7 cameras don't use BSI sensors, but they also never received the update to have uncompressed RAWs, which brings its own set of issues.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Star eater issue was present in the mark 1 series in bulb mode. In mark ii & iii Sony made the algorithm kicked in above 4sec. The workaround in mark ii was to shoot in continuous mode (who knows why!). No workaround in mark iii. Now, Sony is the bigger sensor brand for dedicated astronomy cameras that all work fine, BSI tech included, weird ha? We can easily overcome hot pixels with calibration frames and dithering. We just need a button to disable spatial filtering that's all.

Apr 29, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Opie Winston: I support the request for an option to turn spatial filtering off, but I don't think the "star eater" is a problem - not for those using a tripod, and not for us who use equatorial setup for aesthetic deep sky photography. If the goal is astrometry or other kind of measurements, we use dedicated astro cameras anyway.

Apr 29, 2021*permalink

http://www.markshelley.co.uk/Astronomy/SonyA7S/StarEaterExample.jpg

> In mark ii & iii Sony made the algorithm kicked in above 4sec.

Actually, for the second gen A7 cameras the "above 4 sec" rule applies to the A7R II and A7S II but not the most affordable and therefore popular version, the A7 II. With the A7 II you can have timed exposures up to 30 seconds before the filtering kicks in. This makes a big difference because for untracked astro photos the exposure limit with even a wide angle lens is under 30 seconds before the stars start streaking. This is one of the reasons why I kept my A7 II body after I bought an A7R II.

Also, since the problem occurs mostly with one pixel stars, the higher rez "R" series is less affected because a star is more likely to cover more than one pixel.

I will say that if you are a hard-core astro photographer who does long tracked exposures (where the camera is on a moving mount tracking the stars) then you are probably better off with a Canon Ra (the "a" stands for astronomy) or a used Canon 60Da.

Apr 29, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ mikegt: When comparing files from my Sony A7rIII and the factory-astro model DSLR from Canon, both cameras reach the same magnitude limit when using a tracker ... the faintest stars are smoothed out by turbulent air, anyway.

The spatial filtering works on a small matrix of pixel, centered on a single hot pixel. You don't get one pixel stars anyway, due to the nature of atmospheric refraction and turbulence, so you don't miss much of interest. Even the outer stars of dense global clusters are kept.

With wide angle lenses, some more faint stars are gone, but for aesthetic images (everything except scientific measurements) there will be plenty of stars left - lots of fainter stars than what can be observed with the naked eye.

The "star eater" is there. This is a fact. Not only for Sony cameras! But the implications of this long exposure noise reduction filtering process is exaggerated, and the benefit of spatial filtering for everything else but the starry sky is totally lost.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@mikegt i think Ra is too old tech for the money.

@Magnar W thank you for all your comments. I respectfully disagree. I have seen many photos from sony a7 series and from my own a7s files that the stars are removed which as i said its not that bad but the weird colors of the survived stars is not aesthetic at all. I believe star eater is degrading the image quality. Nikon uses the same sensors without this "effect". Sony should give us an option.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

Opie: You need to do your homework before posting here. First, the Canon Ra was introduced in late 2019; it is a mirrorless camera that uses the latest Canon "RF" lenses and has an 30 megapixel sensor, so it is not exactly "old tech". This camera is expressly designed for the hard-core astronomy photographer; it records much more of the hydrogen alpha ray spectrum (good for nebulae) than regular cameras, focuses in very low light and can magnify up to 30x for precise focusing. You can modify other cameras to record the hydrogen spectrum but that usually voids the warranty; Canon astro cameras come with their regular warranty.

I will also say that cameras designed for astro photography are usually not ideal for general purposes; if most of your photography is the regular kind then an astro-oriented camera like the Canon "a" models may not be the best choice for you.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@mikegt : Everyone knows the brochure of canon eos Ra. You didn't need to copy paste it here. If you have done your homework instead of telling others what to do you should know that canon eos Ra has the same sensor technology as the eos 5div (2016) except the updated image processor. Same resolution, same pixel density, same pixel size. So yes for a typical ha mod which by the way Canon didn't get it right -search Ra star problems- and a 30x magnification button and an old design sensor which is not even iso invariant its too expensive for me. Its not bad its just old for 2021. Its not BSI, its not stacked its just the old good Cmos. World is moving on you know. I am not here to fight. I just want the brand i like to give me more options. Take care.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Opie Winston: I have tried several cameras for night sky and astrophotography, and I use Sony cameras with confidence. Personally I have skipped the 12 Mp camera that Markshelly use (your link), since the spatial filtering is a small matrix centered around a hot pixel. With low Mp cameras, more stars will be affected. With higher resulution files, like 24 Mp and higher, you need to pixel peep really hard and push the files quite a bit to notice the artifacts.

I trust my own tests (100% pixel, posted on Dpreview too), and I use my unmodified Sony cameras for tracked deep sky photography with a telecope. Canon cameras have their own flaws for this kind of photography.

If you work with higher precision, you use a dedicated cooled astro camera. I have two of them. Sometimes spatial filtering with user defined matrix is added at post processing. But the results from my Sony cameras are fine for aesthetic purposes.

No need to fight. Factual info and experience should be fine. 😉

May 1, 2021*permalink

"Opie": You accused the Canon Ra of being "old tech". A 30 megapixel full-frame mirrorless camera with Canon's latest lens mount is not "old tech", even if it doesn't have some of the features you think it must have.

As for the issues with the "Ra", some users have reported a problem with small halos around bright red stars, but I also came across this comment from an owner: Really liking my Canon EOS Ra, now that I have the Astronomik L2 filter to fix the red halo issue.

As I said before, cameras like the "Ra" are not ideal if you mostly will be using it for non-astro photography. Can the "Ra" match the latest top-of-the-line mirrorless cameras for general photography ? Is the "Ra" the best choice for video shooters ? The answer to both questions is no, but then it wasn't designed for that.

BTW the Canon 5D Mark IV from 2016 did win DPReview's "Gold" award, and the review found no significant IQ issues, so we can assume Canon's 30 megapixel sensors are good.

May 1, 2021*permalink

"Opie":

Here are some IQ specs I found in an article comparing the Canon R5 with your "old tech" 5D Mark IV; I'm ignoring the difference in resolution, since the Mark IV was not designed to be a resolution monster (that honor was reserved for the 5DS, which came out back in 2015):

R5 from 2020: Color depth: 25.3 bits, dynamic range: 14.6 EV.
5D Mark IV from 2016: Color depth: 24.8 bits, dynamic range: 13.6 EV

So in four years, we get a little bit better color depth and dynamic range. Probably not enough to make a difference in most situations. All the buzz-words you have cut-and-pasted from brochures like "BSI", "stacked sensor", "ISO invariant", etc., don't make as much difference as you may think. You may be shocked to learn that one can take photos on an "old tech" camera built in 2016 that look just as good to the average person as the latest BSI stacked-sensor ISO invariant cutting-edge $4,000+ gold-plated models.

May 1, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@mikegt: I can't really figure out what is your problem here but i am glad you are doing your research. You are telling me if i know that good images can be made with a 2016 camera? Hell yeah! I know! I am shooting astrophotography with a 2014 camera! Are you paying any attention at all? Or you just arguing because you just like it this way? I believe i can make the images i want with any camera. I didn't say Ra is old tech i said is old tech for the money!

@mikegt i think Ra is too old tech for the money.

See? This is my opinion because this is my money not yours. For the same money i can get a bsi iso invariant sensor with better DR and better read noise which all lead to better image quality. Even the other way around if i follow your way of thinking I can get a 6D instead of the overhyped 30x mag button camera and tell myself that 6D is not far away from EOS R.

May 2, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

We are working to split hairs in astrophotography meaning to grab a few photons to overcome background noise and you are telling me that a full stop DR, iso invariance, read noise dont make a difference? Maybe it would't if i shoot cats. We always try to overcome the flaws of our equipment pushing a lot of technics to the far end. Are you even into astrophotography?

To end this, if you are heavily invested in Canon glass and you doing nightscapes/astro by all means go ahead buy it, i am sure you ll be happy-i would- but you can't convince me that this camera is the best out there cause it had five years ago a gold medal in dpreview. Either way Canon eos R didn't but I don't choose that way. I find in general Canon great i had an 550d. I have modified by myself two cameras and I read everything and everyone for some years now on astrophotography so for your bad i dont just copy paste. Of course I am not an expert but i am not hyped either.

May 2, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Truth is all camera brands have problems with astrophotography. Sony has star eater, Nikon has concentring banding and Fuji has star eater also because all of them manipulate their Raws. Instead of trying to bash me and convince me about how great is the Xcamera show some passion to convince the brands to fix their flaws. We will both benefit in the long run.

May 2, 2021permalink

Opie: You are just rambling on at this point. Yes we know your money is your money and you can shoot cats, or not (not sure what you were talking about there!!).

I never said the Canon was the "best" out there. It does appear to be currently the only mirrorless full frame camera modified for astro photography that still comes with a factory warranty, but I doubt professional astronomers who spend thousands or even millions on fancy telescopes and dedicated imaging equipment would see it as the best solution for them!

I will say this one last time: The Canon Ra appears to be something to consider if you are into astro photography. It is likely not the best camera you can get for general purposes - the Sony A7 III has better video, the A7 "R" series and Canon 5DS / R5 cameras more resolution, etc. You buy the best tool for the job - it's not about which camera has all the latest technological bells and whistles.

May 2, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ mikegt : And i said thank you it doesn't worth it for me. I explained why i believe so. I don't need the best. An iso invariant camera isnt the best it is just the better tool for the job. It was really bad move of me to ask a question in dpreview. We obviously disagree. I leave it there.

May 3, 2021permalink

Daft Punk

Bigger, Better, Faster , MORE !

This camera is probably peak mirrorless right now. It won’t make people better photographers however. And it costs the price of a life changing trip or experience. And in good light at base ISO the pictures are indistinguishable from something 20% of the price.

Allow me to be disinterested.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Dave Oddie

Leica's have been selling for the price of a life changing trip or experience for years. In fact in the UK a Lecia M10-P sells for the same price as a Sony A1.

And it's always been true it is possible to take pictures with an entry level camera indistinguishable from the top of the range model e.g. Nikkormat v Nikon F2AS but equally there has always been a market for the top end models.

That doesn't include me or you (there is no why I am paying £4200 for a Canon R5 never mind £6500 for an A1) but very expensive cameras have existed for decades. They interest me on a technical level not as a possible purchase and I hope to see the technology trickle down. This has already happened to some extent such as the AF system on a Sony A100VII

Apr 28, 2021permalink

P3R10D8100D5UND4Y

I would not compare to Leica. Leica's whole business is only like 400 million a year. That includes everything. Sony makes that within 5 minutes of a playstation console going on sale.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ P3R10D8100D5UND4Y: Try the Leica repair prices for some years, and the magics will vaporate ... 😉

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Nothing Earth shattering here that I can't take with my existing cameras e.g. weddings/events/landscapes/nightscapes/fast sports/Studio work etc.

It's a pity that DPR doesn't do compatibility tests with third party systems e.g. flash triggers like Godox strobes for studio work etc. Sony always seems to be incompatible/proprietary, and you have to buy something extra to make them work, like a Sony specific Godox trigger $$$.

It is also a pity that few, if any, of the sample gallery photos actually show the style/subjects they claim a camera is good for. I would love to see a real wedding or other important event photos in the sample galleries where a camera is pushed to its limits under pressure e.g. low light events and bright daylight subject matter.

Otherwise, it is just based on word with no real world testing, and the review is suddenly out.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

The Mad Kiwi

@shaun "like a Sony specific Godox trigger $$$." .......

So just like the like a Canon specific Godox trigger $$$, Nikon specific Godox trigger $$$, Fuji specific Godox trigger $$$, m43 specific Godox trigger $$$ or finally the Pentax specific Godox trigger $$$.

I think it's not really accurate to describe Godox trigger as $$$, more like $69 which is frankly disposable prices.

Can't blame the staff here for their crappy pictures, they're journalists not photographers. (Sorry DPR Staff, the truth can be painful)

God bless Godox for making a trigger for the Pentaxians, those poor sods don't usually get anything, but Godox shows them some love.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Your complaint about having to buy a Sony specific godox trigger suggests to me that you’re actually not a studio photographer.

Nikon, canon, Fuji, Sony, Olympus, etc ALL have proprietary hotshoes

When you spout such ridiculousness, especially after spewing your “qualifications” it definitely screams trolling and you discredit your whole post.

Have a nice day.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

The Mad Kiwi

"Can't blame the staff here for their crappy pictures, they're journalists not photographers. (Sorry DPR Staff, the truth can be painful)"

Kiwi, as far as I'm aware all of the editors have been, or still are, working professional photographers. Many of them have spoken about paid jobs in articles and comments. If you actually take the time to match the pictures to the names you'll see that all of them have taken beautiful photographs as well as their fair share of 'demo shots'.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Shaun Gibbs

"Nothing Earth shattering here that I can't take with my existing cameras e.g. weddings/events/landscapes/nightscapes/fast sports/Studio work etc."

According to your gear list you have a 5D4, 5Ds and EOS R, so there's quite a lot that the A1 can do that your existing gear can't. That shouldn't be surprising, it's a more expensive and more recent camera.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

RubberDials he's basically alerting to fact that your paying a lot for those small difference regardless of brand name.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@DavitorR5

Lol, no he isn't - he didn't mention anything about price. He claimed that the A1 gallery had no images in it that he couldn't shoot with his existing (mostly DSLR) gear.

That's a perfect of example of the Texas sharp-shooter fallacy. If you look at any gallery anywhere, unless it's shot with a specialist lens of course you can match it with any other camera, because you're looking at the finished result and not taking into consideration the circumstances of the image's creation.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

There's lots of things the A1 can do that my cameras cannot (30fps RAW, 50 megapixels, 8K video) but in terms of these galleries-right down to the locations as some of them are close to where I live-there's nothing in there that any competent photographer couldn't duplicate with any modern ILC from the last ten years.

After the Covid dies down and there are sports in low light again.. then we'll see where it's really at :-)

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@MikeRan

Well since I do run portrait photography workshops in my studio (and have done for many years) I provide triggers for the other photographers to use.

I currently use Godox strobes (and Elinchrom) and the X1T triggers for Canon work on Nikon cameras and vice versa but they don't work at all on Sony cameras.

So I needed to buy a Sony trigger which only works on Sony cameras to cater for those photographers. It didn't break the bank, but is just annoying when you have to waste time and money getting stuff to work with Sony proprietary gear.

I have had Pentax, Olympus and other photographers attend too, and no problem with their cameras using the studio triggers.

So unless you can demonstrate otherwise, don't try and discredit my credentials and personal experience, just because you don't believe it.

Put your money where your mouth is i.e. test this all for yourself with your own $$$, just as I have done.

May 1, 2021*permalink

Wait.. are you saying the Godox trigger for Nikon and the Godox trigger for Canon are THE SAME???

Can you use a Nikon speed lite on a Canon body? Can you use a canon flash on a Nikon body?

May 1, 2021*permalink

Yxa

Shaun
Rubber is just a Sony shrill and writes what he’s told to write so try to ignor it

May 1, 2021permalink

@yxa

Insults tend to be more effective if you can actually spell the words. Maybe download a browser with a spellchecker?

May 2, 2021permalink

@The Mad Kiwi

Well, I have 3 x Elinchrom triggers for those strobes and 6 x triggers for the Godox strobes. It all adds up $$$-wise. It's great when triggers can be used on different cameras and still work. I haven't bought a Pentax trigger yet as not too many Pantaxians around. ;)

I have also finally updated my gear list. All mirrorless now since last year and before. I do have some point and shoots too which aren't listed e.g. Panasonic, Olympus TG-6 etc...

@Yxa Thanks!

May 5, 2021permalink

Yxa

Tame Rubber, you lack some wits to make a good reply or for that matter understand technology or as my spellchecker suggests, beeing witless

May 5, 2021permalink

mahshid

The best camera ever built

It will not have a competitor for another 5 years

Apr 28, 2021permalink

How many did you buy?

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@marshad
It’s already got loads of competitors.....🙄
What you perhaps mean is that there won’t be a better camera for 5 years. Well certainly for some specific purposes better cameras already exist (landscape- medium format 100mp for LESS 💰💰💰) . So what you WANT to say is that in the next 5 years in your opinion there won’t be a BETTER camera than the A1 available that is like the A1. Possibly true....😊

Apr 28, 2021permalink

mahshid

@Kandid

The camera will not be better unless Sony is the manufacturer

Canon and Nikon children's toys are neither competitive in price nor in features

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@mashid
We will see....😁

Apr 28, 2021permalink

ffking

"Canon and Nikon children's toys"

Unfortunately, comments like that disqualify you from being taken seriously

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@ffking
You are so correct - but he’s only saying it to get attention....🥱🙄

Apr 28, 2021permalink

onda

I’ll take two! Two R5s that is.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

mahshid

@onda @Kandid @ffking
You need to get three R5 Because three cameras equal to one alpha1 camera can record video

-Because each takes only 20 minutes 8K video

Yes, you got it right, they are and will always be children's toys.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

🙄 As I say - attention seeking behaviour.....🥱

Apr 30, 2021permalink

onda

Being a kid is so much fun!!!

May 4, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

Apparently it's never too late to have a happy childhood.

May 5, 2021permalink

tvstaff

I shot the A1and the clear disadvatage is the EVF lag vs the OVF in the 1DXMKIII for sports. I also found the focus much better in AIservo in the 1DXMKIII . The resolution was better in the A1 but I had less keepers. OOC color was better in the A1. All the big whites felt better on the 1DXMKIII. In bright sun the 1DXMKIII was so far superior. As a professional sports photographer I wish I had the resolution of the
A1 in my 1DXMKIII. In looking at both bodies the 1DXMKIII is a stronger body, better sealed.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

LiangMing

Wow, someone still complains the EVF lag with this beast.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

EVF lag is ~10 milliseconds. You are either full of crap or you didn’t have the camera set to the high frame rate option. You were using the 120FPS mode right?

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Jan-o-Phot

This is the killer: "OOC color was better in the A1"

Wow!!!

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@tvstaff
You had better be making this stuff up or the boys here are gonna have a meltdown.....😇

Apr 29, 2021permalink

https://www.kissmykite.com

@tvstaff is the real deal, whether one agrees with him or not. Check out this link from his bio:

He's an accomplished pro photographer with a lot of experience.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

EVF lag vs the OVF in the 1DXMKIII... Are you serious? Because most of the posts here are trying to hit any possible weakness of the new camera. Usually it's a healthy debate. But really? You still question the EVF? In a camera that does 30 fps? In electronic shutter? Well if you experienced a delay from your reaction, then start a burst a tiny fraction of a second earlier, watching through the non-blackening finder. A burst of 5 will do. But you are right that OVFis lagless. But then there is a much larger mechanical lag, mirror + shutter in your 1DXYZ, and likewise you will have always to anticipate the release, also considering your physical reaction lag. Here is a real test I would like to see: capture lag with Electronic x Mechanical shutter.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

IIRC shutter lag on a prefocused A9 is about half the shutter lag on a prefocused 1DXIII. Imaging-resource does fairly precise measurements of this.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@MikeRan - Thanks, Mike. I will take a look, even though I don't need a confirmation from my experience.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Me either. However I see so many people spewing garbage I like to know the actual numbers to the extreme where I measured the EVF lag myself.

And tvstaff may be the “real deal” but either he didn’t have the A9 setup right or he is seeing something else that he is misinterpreting as viewfinder lag.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

@MikeRan
Then you will enjoy my reply to primeshooter below.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

tvstaff

Not only in the 1DXMKIII faster to get to focus, follow and stay in focus the EVF on the SONY is not good in intense tropical light. The OVF suffers from none of this. Havinf tried the A1 I gave it a fair shot... And 30fps means nothing. 15fps is the upper sweet spot for intense human movement, water and having multiple shots to choose from. If the idea is to spray and pray.... Get a Red shoot video and pull out the frames you want. ;)

Apr 30, 2021permalink

I have said elsewhere if you think the key spec for the A1 is the 30FPS then you have completely missed the point.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

@MikeRan - Poor TVstaff, will soon be out of business. Just let that sign become more widespread:
TV STUDIO X
* * O N A I R * *
NO DSLR OR MECHANICAL SHUTTER CAMERAS ALLOWED

May 1, 2021*permalink

jack1976

Am I the only one that thinks this camera is kinda hit and miss? Sony could have shifted many Canon/Nikon users to its ecosystem had the price of this magnificent camera would be approximately 2k lower. You can buy for less the number one camera for landscapes and portraits today ( Fuji’s 100 mp gfx100s ) or invest in Canon’s R5 which is almost identical to the A1 for half the amount.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

That exactly what i posted before. Sony has inadvertently given Canon a boost in sales with folks who were waiting for the A7R5. I know of several people who use Canon glass on their Sony cameras. These are the folks who can easily jump back to Canon.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

If in your world 20 is almost 30 than you definitely should buy the R5!

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Yes, i don't even need 10 frames per second. I only shoot sports on rare occasions and if I do I can manage to get the shot at 10fps.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@DavitorR5:
To be honest, I am an amateur and I quite often shoot BIF at only 8fps.
I do not need 30fps. I do net even need a camera. All my camera purchases are based on WANT!

Apr 27, 2021permalink

This camera isn’t even about the 30FPS. Those that say it is are completely missing the point.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Dave Oddie

@jack1976. The price precludes the A1 from all but the wealthy and the professions but just a minute, so does the price of the R5 and no, its not "half the amount". It is selling in the UK for £4200 body only. That's £4200 for a camera that overheats which does not inspire confidence in its engineering even if you never shoot 8K video.

I don't know what volume of cameras both Canon and Sony expect to sell at these prices but it's not going to be a lot in comparison to the R6, A7III level and that is where there is going to be more volume. In this sector it is the R6 which is overpriced selling for a ludicrous £2504. A Nikon Z6II is £1899 and the A7III £1649. OK the A7III will probably be replaced by a more expensive A7iV soon but I'd be surprised if Sony is daft enough to try for £2500.

In any case even these prices are beyond what many people will consider paying for a camera.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@ MikeRan: I know Mike. I am just sick and tired to listen to people claiming that the R5 is ALMOST an A1, so i used 30fps as an example to show that there is a huge difference. 30 fps is just one of the many outstanding features of this camera. I don't think most people would understand that just the A1 read out speed of the electronic shutter puts this camera in a totally different class and makes it worth every penny!

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Red-Kite

Wow! Base on that logic - Mercedes should priced their AMGs like the BMW 3 series just to gain market share from them :)

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Dave Oddie

Good post. In the UK all Canon bodies cost significantly more than their competitors, whilst offering less in most cases - even the excellent R5, which costs a staggering £1100 more than the A7rIV - enough to buy 75% of a 14, 24 or 35 GM lens! You'd have to be really committed to Canon or have a strong (but occasional) need for 8K to go there.

Nikon is doing the sensible thing and offering very attractive lower prices but I think the A7IV is going to disrupt even that strategy. Canon has room to slash prices on the R6, and will do so, but even if they go below £2K I don't think it will be enough if the A7IV is ≈30mp as rumoured. The camera already looks like a fait accompli, which is presumably why Sony is biding their time before releasing it.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@DaveOddie: Even $2000 is more than what most want to spend on a camera...and that's before the lens. With all of these cameras we are talking relatively small amounts in today's market.

@RubberDials: Keeping in mind that with the a7IV, we are talking about a rumored camera that doesn't exist yet....but the rumors also suggest that Sony will charge $2500 for the a7IV, which is consistent with their desire to up the prices and profit margin on their camera bodies. BTW, nothing wrong with that...but it is where Sony is heading.

"The camera already looks like a fait accompli, which is presumably why Sony is biding their time before releasing it."

Companies generally like to release a product once it is finished and it is usually timed that way. Otherwise there are costs to the company. If the a7IV is ready to go, I believe that Sony would release it. Why not? It will sell very well and they could start realizing those profits.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Sony is heading to $2500 based on Canon’s success with the R6. It’s also possible they will surprise and release at $1999 like they did the A7III before it. If so Canon likely would have to drop prices on the R6 too.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

I'd say there is no way that Sony will pass up the opportunity to establish at least $2500 as the baseline for the a7 IV and all subsequent A7 series models. They might go a bit higher even.

All companies are heading upscale in their pricing. It's their way to survival in a market where sales volume has declined so much.

And companies are being rewarded for releasing aggressively featured products, even with higher prices. Sony has done very well with the a1 and before that the a7sIII, and Canon has done well with the R5 and R6.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

@Thoughts R Us

"I'd say there is no way that Sony will pass up the opportunity to establish at least $2500 as the baseline for the a7 IV and all subsequent A7 series models. They might go a bit higher even."

Lol you know very well that they won't.

The A7IV (or A6/A4) will be ≈2K. Canon will slash the price on the R6, but it won't help.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

The A1 has been great for the whole industry. Its pushed Canon and Nikon to announce the AR3 and Z9, and with all the comparisons to the R5, the R5 sales have skyrocketed. Stores like Amazon, Map and B&H have said its been their best selling camera for months now despite shortages (its Temporarily out of stock.on Amazon now though), and Canon just said in their financial statement they are revising sales estimates 'significantly' upwards due to demand of the R5 and R6. Just a year ago no one could have guess a $3900 camera would be the top seller for so many months.
I imagine when the A7R5 is released it too will see similar sales. And same goes for the A74. It looks like the sales drought may be over. When was the last time a camera company reported they sold almost 10% more ILCs than they year before?

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

garyknrd

You are probably right. I have been out birding now for several weeks. And haven't seen an R5 yet. Or Any Canon big new glass. Years ago that is all I saw. I have seen Many Sony 2-600 and the Sony 600mm, the A1 and other Sony mirror less. I hear Canon is doing great financially . Just not seeing there gear in the field like I used to.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

For better or worse I see almost exclusively DSLRs at the nature preserves and parks I travel to. Many are 5 years or older. Camera sales these days are dwarfed by what they were 5-10 years ago, I don't think a lot of people care about upgrading.
The few mirrorless cameras I've seen, a couple Sony, had Canon EF lenses too.
The trick is getting those DLSR shooters to upgrade. Most are brand loyal with a lot of treasured lenses, and it looks the R5 and R6 are finally doing it. No reason to buy new lenses either.
I hope Sony and Nikon quarterly reports are as good. Maybe we are out of the slump.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Amal E: yes, the point you make is true: there are a lot of DSLRs out there still in use and many don't feel an especial need to change right now. That is as true with pro's as well as amateurs.

The key for Canon and Nikon especially is getting them to switch to their new mirrorless platforms.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

garyknrd

I was surprised by not seeing the R5 or R6, since they have been out so long?
Started asking the people with the Sony gear what they had before.
The guy shooting the Sony A1 said Canon.
Lady shooting 2-600, Canon.
Guy shooting 2-600 said Canon. Also said he worked as a production manager at the school system. All now shoot with Sony, before Canon. He said they looked at the R5 when it came out.
Guy shooting Sony 600nm lens, Canon.
I was also surprised at all the Nikon PF 500mm lenses. 10 or more so far.
So far I have seen 1,version 1 Canon 500 and 1,Canon version 1 600.
All I talked to wear extremely pleased with the switch?

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@garyknrd

The R5 and R6 are not selling nearly as well as some people would have you believe. :)

Here's BCN's top 50 for April. https://www.bcnretail.com/research/ranking/monthly/list/contents_type=101

The R5 has slipped down to #45 and the R6 has disappeared from the chart altogether. The position of the R5 is neither surprising nor concerning - it's a 4 grand camera and such cameras do not sell in large numbers, no matter how popular they are - after all the A7rIV and Z7II are not even in the top 50.

The R6 is different. It's Canon's enthusiast mirrorless and is intended to compete with the A7III, which has never been out of the chart and is currently at #16 body only and #25 with kit lens.

Canon needs to be making inroads here and they're not at all. The A7IV is imminent and if Sony keeps the A7III in the range at a lower price point, as they have traditionally done, Canon are in trouble I think. A replacement for the R6 is likely two years away at best.

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

Interesting that certain Sony disciples here are claiming that retailers are discounting the A1 already......amazing if true and maybe not flying out of the doors after all ⁉️

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ kandid: Links?

Or is it just the usual from you, asking others for facts, but spreading whatever speculations that suit your own agende? Well, well ...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Magnar
Well it was actually YOU who suggested this was the case (much to my surprise) - so perhaps YOU need to furnish the links 😂🤣😂🤣

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: As said, links?

I can't find links that support your claim in your first post here.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Magnar
And, as I said, I am linking to YOU, who claimed, and I quote:

"I can find different prices from what you claim here in the actual markeds .."

You wrote this (including the spelling mistakes) today in response to me pointing out the price in the US and UK of the R5 ($3900 and £4300) and the A1 ($6500 and £6500) ie the A1 is 67% more than the R5 in the US and 51% more in the UK. You responded as I quote. Were you fibbing - or are you wrong - or is the A1 cheaper than this?? Gotta be one of these....🤔

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: You can find them higher priced too ... what about one of these? When many want an excellent product, you know.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Magnar
So you are now claiming that the price premium for an A1 over an R5 is GREATER than 67% ⁉️ Also big news....

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Facts, prices might vary, also for Canon cameras.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Magnar
What are you talking about????
Prices at the major retailers for both cameras have not budged since their launches. You have been busted taking nonsense and it would be best to own up!! tut tut....

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Magnar
So guess you now accept that the A1 IS 67% more expensive than an R5....😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣

Apr 30, 2021permalink

I am not aware of this and I did not get any discount on the A1 whilst I got 15% off the 35mm f1.4 GM and 10% off the 50mm f1.2 GM.

May 16, 2021permalink

Gerard Shutter

ah.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Removed

Apr 30, 2021*permalink

Looks good generally speaking. But one of the reason's I was liking sony's offerings was a proper vari-angle screen. I cannot say how much I hate lying along the freezing cold ground to get low angle vertical shots with my Nikon bodies that have this daft one axis tilt. What do you do for vertical shots then at low or high angles? Just lie on the freaking ground?

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

Mowikan

This! The screen is useless for portrait shooting in studio also.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

External monitor. It is great in the studio and practical if you can have it on the field, so you don't need to lie on the mud. Better than a simple monitor, I like to use my phone with Image Edge App, with all the controls which I do not need to advertise here because I am not paid for it, I rather buy my gear.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

No I'd rather it just had a vari screen than me buying another monitor to lug into the wilderness for no reason to shoot astro at the top of hills etc!

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@primeshooter
Understood. You would rather avoid to carry a fenomenal, light accessory that can solve your problems improving the viewing in any angle or set-up. It is clear that your choice is stay away from intelligent, practical solutions, so you may keep complaining about cameras that are not fit to retrograde minds. Pointless to discuss this if you have never had touched that camera or tried the gear that I recommend. You don't have the slightest idea of what you're missing. The phone APP is great for the task you are describing. It has just a problem: you must learn how to handle it.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

You will not need to lie down or even kneel to compose your shot, as you can do it comfortably seated on a stool and then you may control all settings from inside the warmth of your tent.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Haha, ridiculous response. The clear practical solution would be a camera body that has a vari tilt screen.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@primeshooter
I'm sorry I brought you a problem. If the price of this camera was already too high for you, you will have to add not only the superb GM primes but also the best fitting phone for Sony users, which by the way is also Sony brand. Ooh! Too much for Sony haters!

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Well, you're clearly an amateur. I was just showing the best solution for serious photographers. You clearly can't imagine what you are missing, as you also show how naive is your post.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

You are the one that is an amatuer. You go to insults such as i cannot afford the camera. Believe me this is not the case in any way. Enjoy argueing stupid points with someone else.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

@primeshooter "What do you do for vertical shots then at low or high angles? Just lie on the freaking ground?" Isn't that an elementary question? I offered you some solutions, like many others that people who work with photography will readily adopt to gain reliability. You should know better who you are speaking with. And if you are not an amateur either, find a way to hide your lower knowledge and lack of adaptability. Pose the same question to your customers and you are out of business.

May 1, 2021*permalink

But i can avoid all that and juat buy a camera that has a vari tilt screen. You need to clean your ears out.

May 1, 2021permalink

I understand. The tilting viewfinder is more important for you than all the other features that translate in better and more reliable results. I've got it, cosmetics are more important for you. I've got to say, I own 2 Sony A99 (one IR converted), 1 A7R2, 1 R3 and 2 R4 (plus 3 APSC bodies). I know exactly what you mean, but you don't have the slightest idea of how the solution that I offered in my first reply works great. I give up, you win, if you prefer to crawl on the mud. I mean figuratively.

May 1, 2021permalink

https://petapixel.com/2021/04/26/some-canon-eos-r5-users-report-ibis-bug-that-causes-blurry-photos/

I don't need all that stuff you think I need. Maybe you should stop trying to make my needs fit what you think they are. Sony have other models I would just buy before buying random screens. Something gives me the impression you loose a lot.

May 1, 2021permalink

Photoman

I see Canon's R5 is "Shaking" in its boots about the A1.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

This review is about the A1, not the R5. By the fact that you need to share this in an A1 review shows that you can careless about the A1. Embarrassing.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4563082

And I will say it again: anytime anyone compares the $3900 R5 with the $6500 A1 that is a win for Canon.

@Photoman is basically affirming that he considers the R5 to be competition to the A1.

(And I don't mean this to start the whole R5 vs A1 debate all over again...just to point out that the OP is defeating his implied argument.)

Apr 27, 2021permalink

MILC man

@Thoughts R Us - "Photoman is basically affirming that he considers the R5 to be competition to the A1"

no, he never claimed that the r5 is any kind of competition for the a1, because it clearly isn't.

he _is_ however responding to canon owners who keep making that false claim in the comment section of this a1 review, for instance:

@Thoughts R Us - "...A1... the R5 one can do almost the same things and with better ergonomics to boot."

@Thoughts R Us - "no doubt the a1 is very capable, and the bird eye AF will work, but I haven't seen anything that suggests it is better than the R5 WRT bird eye AF."

@Ruy Penalva - "With almost twice the price that is unfair comparison with R5"

@Amal E - "Where it matters, the R5 has some real advantages"

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

juanmaasecas

It is a pity you need to go to petapixel.
I first posted the issue here, in house, a month ago

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Photoman

I don't consider a "Marketing" Canon camera to be a direct comparison
to a serious Sony camera (and the price reflects that, to be fair), but it
reflects the rushed natural of the R5. I would have been angry spending
good money on the R5, where they should have done more testing before released.
One last joke: Why does the R5 "Shake" so much? Because it is
"Hot" with a fever...

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

Photoman the R5 has only 2% difference in camera rating according to DPreview, yet it cost 40% more. The only fever I feel is of the folks sweating out the justification for spending that much more. Embarrassing...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Canon will fix this.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Archer66

@Davitor
"This review is about the A1, not the R5."
And in how many posts you have mentioned R5 ?
A: 17 times, I'm sure there will be more.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Archer66: Davinator is among those who so desperately want the R5 to be better that it is ... it is a good camera, no doubt, but with limitations when it comes to action and speed (sensor readout speed, not blackout-free, limitations with electronic shutter, etc.).

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Davinator
The A1in the US is 67% more than the R5 ($6500 v $3900) ‼️‼️‼️⁉️
In the UK it is 51% more (£6500 v £4300)

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Kandid: Where are all the emojis? At least you have kept lots of exclamation marks to give weight to your claims ...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Magnar
They are emojis.....sort of ⁉️
BTW we call these 'facts' not 'claims' - a difference that regularly seems to elude posters here......

Apr 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: I can find different prices from what you claim here in the actual markeds ...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

"The A1in the US is 67% more than the R5 ($6500 v $3900) ‼️‼️‼️⁉️"

And waits an hour after overheated to shoot again. (It is a fact as shown by many people).

Don't want R5 even for free. Its garbage camera.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@zxaar
yes - but relatively good value garbage.........🤣😂🤣

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Magnar
So 'real' retailers are having to discount the A1 already are they.......big news that - I was under the impression people were fighting to buy them ⁉️

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@zxaar
The 'garbage camera' seems to be selling well enough (perhaps to garbage collectors) to drive Canon's results ahead of plan and forecast 😊. Knew you would be pleased....

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Magnar
So over here, in the quiet, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

Apr 27, 2021permalink

When people call any of these cameras "garbage" they lose credibility. All of these extreme negatives imply simply a frustrated commenter more than any reasonable comment.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

I agree. Just like when they call any of these cameras “toys”.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Tru i keep my right to have an opinion. As far as credibility goes i do not need your certificate.

The fact remains that once r5 overheated it can wait an hour to shoot. Thats is the fact of the matter.

You don't get this with A1.

I feel sorry for people paying 4000$ to get unreliable camera and worse are those who claim it can compete with A1.

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Thoughts R Us

"When people call any of these cameras "garbage" they lose credibility."

Well, you called the A7 - 'junk', the A7II - 'a dog' and the A7c - 'a slap in the face'.

Don't know if it has affected your credibility.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@zxaar
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
You are feeling sorry for ALLLLOOOOOTTTT of people then - poor you......😷

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Rubber Dials: how nice of you to flatter me by doing such exhausting research of my past comments. :)

I will readily admit that I have been too hyperbolic in the past in terms of some of my criticism. Will you admit that? Will @zxaar admit that?

@Milcman: "he _is_ however responding to canon owners who keep making that false claim in the comment section of this a1 review, for instance..."

Sorry, but the OP by @Photoman was not responding to those other points. Those other points were already debated in those particular threads.

This was @Photoman starting his own thread by just throwing out something about the R5 in a review of the A1. Which surely signals that he is sees the R5 as a natural competitor to the A1.

So I'm sure if they are aware of this thread, that the marketing people at Canon thank @Photoman for bringing up the R5 in a review of the A1.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Thoughts R Us

"how nice of you to flatter me by doing such exhausting research of my past comments. :)"

Exhaustive research? Remembering what you said, you mean?

"I will readily admit that I have been too hyperbolic in the past in terms of some of my criticism. Will you admit that?"

What, that you've been 'too hyperbolic in the past'? Sure. You've even been 'too hyperbolic' just now, describing me remembering what you've said as 'exhaustive research'. Clearly it's something you need to address.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Photoman

@RubberDials Thoughts R Us voted Trump, so it explains the reasoning behind the comments ;p

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Handsome90

@Photoman, look I don't like TRU's continuous anti-sony diatribe but he or she isn't a Trump supporter. Let's not stoop to the level of the trolls (not calling TRU troll here)

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Handsome90
I see that you feel able to condemn TRU’s ‘continuous anti Sony diatribe’ (when he has been pretty balanced of late) in a thread containing ‘
“Don't want R5 even for free. Its garbage camera.” zxaar. and
“no, he never claimed that the r5 is any kind of competition for the a1, because it clearly isn't.” MILCman
A little consistency would lend credibility...

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Handsome90

@Kandid, we have you for that 😉

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Handsome90
Doing my best...🥸

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@RubberDials: I am even more flattered if you remembered my remarks from the past...those comments were a ways back. I don't even remember those exact comments, much less what you or anyone else here writes from months ago or even years ago. So again thank you for remembering what I write...I never realized it was that impactful to you. :)

@Handsome90: thanks for setting the record straight for @Photoman regarding the politician who shall not be named. As you mention, I may be many things, may have many flaws, but definitely is not/was not a support of the orange man. Of all the things I have been called that insult from @Photoman cuts the deepest :)

And yes I have been trying to be more balanced.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

“And yes I have been trying to be more balanced.”

I have noticed. Seems since the A1 review came out.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Handsome90

TRU has also been fair to the new GM lenses. Liking the new TRU 😊

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Thoughts R us

"@RubberDials: I am even more flattered if you remembered my remarks from the past...those comments were a ways back."

It's not difficult to remember what you write, you repeat it dozens of times, across multiple threads and articles. I would need to be senile or have a brain injury to not remember it.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Rubber....
“I would need to be senile or have a brain injury to not remember it.”
Ooooooohhhhhh - so tempting......🧐

Apr 28, 2021permalink

I get the feeling that when this Canon EOS R3 with a CMOS stack sensor comes out, it will leave the A1 in the dust. For example the IBIS on the R5 can get up to 8 stops of image stabilization. Sony at most gets 5 stops. Canon takes there time to get things right.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/product-showcases/cameras-and-lenses/eos-r3

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. We know very little about the R3 other than Canon is working on it. And if you think the IBIS is going to be a distinguishing feature of the R3 you do not know the target audience at all. Many of whom disable image stabilization.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

@DavitorR5

"I get the feeling that when this Canon EOS R3 with a CMOS stack sensor comes out, it will leave the A1 in the dust."

Since it's likely to be 24mp, that's unlikely.

"For example the IBIS on the R5 can get up to 8 stops of image stabilization. Sony at most gets 5 stops. Canon takes there time to get things right."

By consensus Canon's IBIS is the most effective. They claims 8 stops with only five lenses though:

RF 24-70/2.8
RF 24-105/4
RF 24-105/4.1-7.1
RF 28-70/2
RF 70-200/2.8

And that's doubtful. If we consider 1/125s to be the speed at which a sharp image can be guaranteed without IBIS on a non-telephoto lens for the average photographer without stability issues, then that would mean the Canon IBIS would let you shoot images unsupported without motion blur at 2s. Clearly not possible. Assuming 1/250 for the 70-200would give you 1s.

"Canon takes there time to get things right."

You could also say they only move when someone lights a fire under their bottom.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

juanmaasecas

Canon ibis is 2 stops better than Sony ibis in my experience (a7r2, a73, eos r5).
But there’s this bug with Canon ibis they sometimes produce blurred photos, so I would say that until the update comes, I used to get sharper results with Sony in average. But for example with the same lens at 17mm I’m able to handhold 1s with the Canon and 1/4s with the Sony (with similar sharpness in the corners).

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Thanks Rubberdial I owned the R5 and can attest to getting super sharp shots at night at 1s interval which is more than enough for me. The key is SUPER sharp shots with no noise. That's all.
Real world usable features.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

I have done 2s handheld shots at night with 24mm on the A9. So what does that say? Not much trouble at all achieving 0.3-0.5s at 24mm.

My data is just as anecdotal as yours. And just as valid as yours.

And again. For the target market, IBIS of 5 stops vs 8 stops is almost meaningless. Sports photographers shooting Canon typically turn off IS as they say it slows down their AF (I don’t know that this is true, but this is what they say and they DO turn off IS) and they’re shooting 1/1000s or faster so they don’t need it. Anyone shooting people won’t go below 1/160 if there’s any chance those people will move.. again. 5.5 vs 8 stops is meaningless for this crowd.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

Mike 3 stops is a big difference in my books. Just as you need 10 more shots per second I need my 3 stops difference. End of story. Thanks for your input but we all have our preferences.

Apr 28, 2021*permalink

https://www.cameralabs.com/canon-eos-r6-review/
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-alpha-a1-review/

@DavitorR5

"Thanks Rubberdial I owned the R5 and can attest to getting super sharp shots at night at 1s interval which is more than enough for me."

Ha ha! Sorry, but you've got no chance of getting a critically sharp shot at 45mp on FF with a 1s exposure. I guess you're thinking of your experience with M43 - that might be possible with a bit of bracing.

"Mike 3 stops is a big difference in my books."

Well, it would be, but you don't get three stops, the Canon system may be the best but it's not that much better than any of the others. Gordon Laing is one of the few reviewers who tests IBIS and he got 4-5 stops with the R5/R6 and four with the A1.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@MikeRan

"I have done 2s handheld shots at night with 24mm on the A9. So what does that say?"

Check your pulse. :) Well, how sharp were those shots, really? The A9 is a lower res sensor which makes a big difference when assessing critical sharpness. It also helps being able to shoot fully electronically. Once again the A1 benefits by having unaffected IQ in ES mode, unlike the R5.

As you say sports shooters don't need IBIS and the R3 is going to weigh a ton anyway.

Apr 28, 2021permalink

I was freestanding and very steady and shooting a burst. Not all were sharp of course. And yes 24MP not 45MP. And I used to shoot competitively (rifles). Still it’s anecdotal data. Just as anecdotal data as anyone else’s.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

f1point4andbethere

I have to say it; the A1 also has ibis issues. I discovered it and other users are starting to notice it on their A1 as well.

Apr 30, 2021permalink

Karl Donitz III

I've been digital for over three decades, long before most pro shooters I've worked with. Am still waiting for a digital camera that can compete with high end film. Had a look at the sample images and they're less than halfway to what we used to get from Paul Bowen (airtoairdotcom). He shot with a gyro-stabilized Canon on Fuji Velvia. We drum scanned his images and blew them up to 10' x 20' walls for trade shows with very little grain showing. You couldn't do that with the a1 images or anything else I can see out there. So, a ways to go yet. Another beef I have with the major camera companies is that they don't yet have security tracking built in like Apple phones have had for a decade. As they very well know, a lot of pro equipment gets stolen, just like high end bikes. But - wink wink - they shed crocodile tears while you have to buy $20,000 in replacement equipment. This is something they could easily address but for obvious reasons, won't.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

kaz911

Regarding security - ask any high end product maker where their revenues come from.... My estimate is 10-30% is from insurance companies.

That is why some very big name brands do NOT want to "include" security in their products.

It would be so easy to "lock" camera and lenses together electronically - so items would only be able to be used with a single or multiple cameras. But then not as many lenses would be sold.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

"Had a look at the sample images and they're less than halfway to what we used to get (...) with a gyro-stabilized Canon on Fuji Velvia."

Even fine-grained 135 films like Velvia don't resolve more than ≈18mp max and the DR is about 5 stops, so you need to get to an opticians, quickly. :)

Apr 28, 2021permalink

The Silver Nemesis

@DPR: I believe that, from a total of 2280 comments, >70% are coming from 7-8 people. That should tell something.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Did you count the one guy who creates a new username every 2 weeks as one?

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The Silver Nemesis

Honestly, no idea who that might be, but you might be right - as everything is possible here.

Edit: and Mike, to me people here have a lot of time to spend writing all these comments. I check the site twice per day, sometimes more frequently during the we, but I am always amazed regarding the number of comments, and, as I said above, regarding some “recurrences”...coming from a compact (in my view) number of people.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

@The Silver..
You are right - but MikeRan MUST MUST MUST be vigilant in protecting the reputation of his beloveds against any vile suggestion of failure....☝️

Apr 26, 2021permalink

I readily confess to be a frequent commenter on some of these threads...but so what? Who does that harm?

Why should that be something bad?

If a bunch of folks want to discuss and debate something, then why not? The analogy I often use is a group of people in a sports bar debating all sorts of things...teams, players, etc. It's harmless.

And you know what? I've learned some things from people like Mike, and come to appreciate some of those with whom I debate. So it's not totally useless either.

As to the time it takes to comment...well, we can multitask. All it takes is a few free minutes at work, at lunch, waiting to pick up coffee from Starbucks, etc. If, let's say, I comment multiple times in an afternoon that doesn't mean that all I've done that afternoon is literally watched and commented on the forum.

I will end the comment with a quote often misattributed to John Lennon: " “Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.”

Apr 27, 2021permalink

juanmaasecas

I have no doubts that some people are working for the brands. It is too obvious.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@juanmaasecas
Given the quality of most of the comments I very much doubt it...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

The Mad Kiwi

There’s one particular poster who is constantly posting here, they’re definitely working for x brand, they use corporate spin language that’s unusual in the colloquial language usually used in forums. They never post using language that isn’t acceptable in a corporate advertising environment.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

I used to think the same thing about some being paid to post, but as a counterpoint:

Human have very strong tribal instincts. The word "fan" comes from "fanatic."
Think of other brand fans in other types of products: cars, sports teams and players, tech and smartphones, etc. If we want to extrapolate further, think of politics and religion. There are people who will go to the mat to defend and promote their brand preference, sports team, political party, etc....all for free and without being prompted.

I've gotten caught up in that too. In moderation it can be OK and even lead to some fun debates, but it can be taken to extremes as well.

So even if a company were willing to pay to have people promote them in comments, I don't know that it would be necessary.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Canon announced the development of the R3!
Why?
Because Canon is smarter than their hot headed fans here.
Canon knows that the R5 is no competition to the A1!
So please wait a little longer and maybe Canon will have a camera that comes close to competing with the A1 and maybe even beat it in anything essential other than price!
If not, you might have to wait for the R1!

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The Z9 and R3 are cameras for professionals who prefer large bodies with built-in vertical grips. Go to any NFL game and those type make up 98% of the photographers.
I'd put the A1, A7Siii, and A7Riv in the same category since they mostly share the same body.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

bloodreyna

LOL. Nah, Canon has released the EOS R3 because their standards are higher than what they delivered with the R5. The R5 is great but it is flawed in some ways like with overheating in video shooting at 8k. The R3 will probably dispense with that silliness.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Amal E: Sony user are less conservative, and many professionals have experienced the benefits of lugging around lighter and smaller gear. They can shoot handheld for longer periods, and have less back problems after long working days.

Those large cameras are remnants from the past, but it is ok that there are some brands offering cameras for those who have not moved forward. Still thinking yiu need a heavy brick to "balance" an already too heavy long anf bright lens.

Large & heavy are more professional? Well, that is also a legacy of the past.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

scokill

No back problems caused by the camera. A 300 or 400mm fast lens would cause problems if any.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Two or three large DSLR cameras with bright lenses around the neck or hanging from the shoulder will hurt, compared to more power from half the weight. Then add the bright, long lenses ...

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Funny Valentine

The Canon R3 forcing its vertical grip down the consumers throat will be ignored by a lot of potential buyers. No one's buying these dinosaurs cameras anymore. I would chose a sony a1 instead (if I had the money...)

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@whitelens
Read on down - you’ve lost this argument about 10 times in the comments below 👇(and in the DPR review above 👆) - but God knows we all love a tryer 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The R3 has been in development for years. It's not like they just whipped it up overnight to compete against the A1. This is such a ridiculous narrative and shows no understanding of real world engineering of devices like these.

And this is not the first dev announcement by Canon or Nikon for that matter. It's been done before.

As for body style/size, why is it so hard to admit that there are different preferences there. Some people do genuinely like the larger style bodies with built in grip, while some prefer the smaller Sony style bodies. It's a big enough world for both. So why be so dogmatic and insist that one size fits all?

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Kandid:
Just a hint if winning is important to you:
You "win" by getting more "LIKES" not by placing the most Emojis.
That only works in kindergarten!

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@whitelens
Dear oh dear.....
You ‘win’ by getting more ‘likes’❓❓❓❓🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
No you ‘win’ an disagreement by deploying better arguments - a fact that clearly eludes you 😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Cian3307

@whitelens. No one ever ever ever 'wins' in online forums. The only winners are those who buy the gear they like, go out and use it, and ignore all the petty squabbling about which manufacturer has the best products.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

NexUser

Canon announced R3 because they have a plan plotted years back. R3 has nothing to do with A1 announcement. RP - R - R6 - R5 - R3 - R1. Simple and easy.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Kandid:
OK then, please deploy better arguments. So far you just employed emojis!

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@Cian3307:
I actually go out and use my camera. I even display a lot of my pictures in my gallery. For some reason that is very uncommon here. Are people so afraid of being judged?

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Cian3307

@whitelens. They fall into 3 groups when it comes to no gallery photos:
1) afraid of being judged
2) never actually take any decent photos
3) couldn't be bothered (most of us fall into this group I think)😉

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@whitelens
sigh.......🙄
As has been pointed out to you ad nauseam DPR (yes this site) identified the R5 as a close competitor to the A1. I quote from THEIR conclusions page:
'This brings us to what is perhaps the most compelling option the Sony a1 is up against at the time of this writing – the Canon EOS R5.'

This is what a fact looks like - and is not compromised by sheep like 'likes' 😊

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Kandid:
DPR: "the Sony a1 is simply the camera to beat right now."
So it looks like we can agree that the a1 is the better camera. What we do not agree on is to what degree the R5 can compete.
So my "argument" is that 20FPS (only when battery is more than 50%) is not competitive to 30 FPS. And the R5 electronic shutter is way to slow to be competitive. And I do not even want to talk about R5 overheating.
Your claim that the R5 is competitive to the A1 is in my eyes the same as if I claimed my ancient A7R3 is competitive to the R5, because it is less money!
These cameras are just too far apart to be what I would consider competitive!

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@whitelens
And again - double sigh - you are arguing with dpr here. The A1 IS better - but 67% more money - so a question mark about vfm....all rather obvious really...😊
The R5 however is clearly selling extremely well - as outlined In Canon’s just released figures....👍

Apr 27, 2021*permalink

@Kandid
I never claimed that R5 is not selling well.
If price is your main criteria than my old A7R3 is a very compelling alternative, after all the R5 is over 68% more money, for almost the same MP!

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@whitelens
And my 5DSR looks a real bargain - again you seem to be debating with either dpr or yourself. Good luck with that 👍

Apr 27, 2021permalink

@NexUser

"Canon announced R3 because they have a plan plotted years back. R3 has nothing to do with A1 announcement. RP - R - R6 - R5 - R3 - R1. Simple and easy."

There is no R1. If you read the review (a bind, I know) you will have encountered the following:

"First up is Canon's EOS-1D X Mark III, the company's flagship camera (we've been assured that the forthcoming EOS R3 sits below it)."

The 1DXIII is in the R1 spot. The R3 is Canon's response to the A9 and development likely started in 2017 or 2018, after they learned of the Sony camera. They probably intended to call it the R1 but Sony's nomenclature now makes that difficult.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Would be great to see these new R1 & R3 cameras.

May 16, 2021permalink

Ruy Penalva

A question: why being so fast and recording in 8K, besides 30 raw burst, does it use CFExpress class A that is slower than CFExpress class B? Does this mean that it record in shallow bit rate than EOS R5? Does it has heat issue? If no, why not?

Apr 26, 2021permalink

CFExpress class A is more than capable enough for any camera and then some.
Take a look inside a R5, Canon did nothing to lead the heat away from sensor and processor, Sony did. But please stop trying to compare the 2 camera's, they are on a completely different level and price point.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

I'd like to know why type A cards are only 160GB and still $400.

You can get 256GB SD cards for $60 now, and 512GB SD cards as well. And the CFx type B you can get a 512GB card for the price of the largest Type A card (160GB). They are also twice as fast as type A.

Type A cards are betamax and memory sticks all over again.

This is just another advantage for the cameras that use type B cards over the A1 unfortunately.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Amal E: You pay R&D costs for early tech.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Type B cards are Sony tech. But a whole lot cheaper and twice as fast.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Amal E: Tech that have been on the marked for a while, like the B type CFast cards, tend to drop in price. A well-known fact.

The downside with type B CFast is that you can't combine CF cards and CFast cards in the same slot.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Type A is expensive right now as no one else is making them. Once other manufacturers start making them prices will drop.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

I agree, with only Sony using type A and only in a few cameras, it has the potential to be the next BetaMax. Its not as fast and cost 3-4x more than type B which a number of camera makers are using.

Its another cost advantage for the cameras that use type B cards and should be seriously considered.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

The cameras that use type B cards cannot double with SD cards which are much cheaper and used by many more cameras. Its another cost advantage for the cameras that use type A cards who can use SD cards as well.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The bit depth is not degraded with the fast burst speed. 30FPS is 14-bit compressed raw. (Since you mentioned R5, 20FPS on R5 is 12 bit only.)

CF-A is fast enough to keep up and smaller in size compared to CF-B. I presume this was the primary reason along with the flexibility of using Cheaper SD cards. The card slots are a great bit of engineering allowing either slot to use either kind of card.

And no, slower cards do not degrade the performance of the camera. You can use V30 SD cards and still get 30FPS bursts with 14-bit depth. The buffer clearing is the only penalty. (Also many of the video modes require V60 cards or higher.)

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Amal E

"I agree, with only Sony using type A and only in a few cameras, it has the potential to be the next BetaMax."

You can't agree with something no-one said.

Type A cards are mandated by the Compact Flash association, which is a conglomerate of ALL digital imaging companies and is actually co-chaired by Nikon and Canon. They are as much a standard as Type B cards.

"They are also twice as fast as type A."

No. Actually type A, B and C cards all run at the same speed. The cards have a different numbers of lanes: A-1, B-2, C-3 so Type B and C have more bandwidth than A but don't run faster.

"This is just another advantage for the cameras that use type B cards over the A1 unfortunately."

No. Type B cards were developed for video cameras and exceed the needs of all stills cameras. They are also too big to be used in pairs in a camera body without a grip, which is why the R5 for example only has one CFE slot.

The Sony A1 will record 8K to V90 SD cards, that's the advantage.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Actually the Sony can record 8k to V60 cards. And if I remember correctly V30 cards at a lower bit rate.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

From YouTube reviews, the R5 can shoot 8K video to SD cards if you only need A1 quality video. It should still be slightly more detailed as we see in the studio test scenes too. It will also be 4:2:2 instead of 4:2:0.
For the best quality video, 8K RAW, or high bit rate 8K 4:2:2 you do need the Type B cards, and then you won't experience th motion artifacts you get with low bit rates.
If I had to choose I'd use the high bit rate over sampled 4K 4:2:2 option. It has no artifacts or moire, you won't get motion artifacts, and it would have more 'resolution' than 4K from other cameras like the A1 or A7Siii.
The A7iii already has highly detailed 4K, more detail the A1 and A7Siii, because of oversampling. When the new A74 comes out, it will be even better, maybe the best. Honestly if video is your thing, wait for that. You'll get the best and save a lot.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Tonio Loewald

Put two m.2 nvme slots in a battery grip and do away with cards. 2TB for $200, and faster than type A or B.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Pretty much anyone I know using the A1 is shooting 8k unless they need the higher frame rate options. The 8k is oversampled from the full sensor width and results in amazing 4k video.

It helps that there is no substantial overheating concern so little reason not to use 8k.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

There are many reasons to shoot 8k. Starting with the punch in ability.
I would also say the same thing for R5 users. If you ask me anyone shooting the HQ4k mode and managing with the overheating issues should be using 8K instead. The only downside with the R5 8k is the lack of hardware acceleration on decoding. (For many but not all systems) So if your system isn’t up to the task you may consider HQ4k. Still if it were me i would record 8k and transcode.

And 8k doesn’t mean you must shoot 2.6Gbps RAW. The 470MBPS is better for most people anyway.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

I did see the R5 now shoots 8K video for 45-60 minutes continuously (a break at 29:59) with bit rates similar to the A1, so I do agree that makes sense for them - so much for the overheating argument, lol! And maybe DPR is right about sharpening, but the R5 8K does have a tiny bit more detail than other 8K cameras. Or maybe it is because shoots 8192 wide 8K instead of only 7680.

I hope the A7R5 oversamples its 61MP to get its 8K video. It would blow away both the A1 and R5. I just hope Sony can figure out how to get animal eye detect during video working. That's another good advantage the R5 has. I bet we see it soon with a FW update.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

@Amal E

"The A1 4K is not amazing at all. It worse than the A7iii, R6, R5, and a host of other cameras."

The A1 4K is really excellent for binned footage. It's as good as the oversampled A7III footage and much better than the binned 4K from the R5.

If you want oversampled 4K you can always shoot from a s35 crop which gives you a subsampled 5.8K image.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Yes, the A1 4K is binned. You can see the artifacts in the studio scene. Lots of moire. You can't fix that either.
The A7iii 4K is oversampled. which is why it looks better than even the A7Siii.

I think Sony knows this and they have a new processor now too. The A74 and A7R5 will oversample too, and we won't get those ugly artifacts anymore.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Dude you keep pivoting around the facts to avoid the reality. Everyone can see it.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Amal

The A1 actually has oversampled 8K, over the R5 - don't see you mentioning that!

"I just hope Sony can figure out how to get animal eye detect during video working."

That's a strange thing to worry about. If I were you I would worry about Canon baking in NR to the raws below 800 ISO on the R5, or compromising on E- shutter, which is always 12bit and fairly soft due to NR, or the fact that you have to come out of video mode and shoot a still frame to set a custom white balance. Or perhaps the inability to shoot at the highest frame rates when the battery falls below 60% etc..

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=sony_a1&attr29_1=sony_a7iii&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=804&x=-0.13709029569979406&y=0.2649143888260091

"Dude" Facts everyone can see.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=sony_a1&attr29_1=canon_eosr5&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k_hq&normalization=full&widget=804&x=-0.13709029569979406&y=0.2649143888260091

The moire and ugly artifacts are real.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Why are you comparing the binned 4K of the A1 to the Subsampled 8K (4KHQ) of the R5? That's not an apples to apples comparison.

You need to compare the binned 4K of the A1 to the binned 4K of the R5. The Sony is much better:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=sony_a1&attr29_1=canon_eosr5&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=c4k&normalization=full&widget=804&x=-0.44100373731980785&y=0.2532029205124674

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Comparing the best SOOC 4K from these cameras.
R5> A7iii/R6>A7SiiiA1>A7Riv

Apples to oranges would be comparing the best possible from one camera to the worst possible from another.

Here is the best possible from the A1 compared to the best possible from the A7iii. You can see a big difference.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=sony_a1&attr29_1=sony_a7iii&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=804&x=-0.13709029569979406&y=0.2649143888260091

Just wait for the A7R5 and A74. Their 4K will blow away the A1 and A7Siii.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

No, you're comparing two entirely different things. The 4KHQ of the R5 is 8K footage subsampled in camera to 4K. Of course it's going to be much better than binned 4K footage. That's not exactly a revelation, fella.

You can shoot A1 footage in 8K and subsample it to get the same result - you just can't do it in camera, you'll have to do it in your editor, but you're not going leave the footage unedited are you?

The apples to apples comparison is the binned 4K from the A1 and R5 - and the A1 footage is more detailed, because the pixel merging algorithm is obviously better.

God alone knows why you're talking about the A7III - that's an apples to onions comparison - the A7III is only 24mp.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The A7iii 4K footage isn't 4K since it is oversampled from 6K? and we are not allowed to compare it to SOOC 4K from other cameras?
You've lost all credibility there.
What's next the A7Siii SOOC 1080 cannot be compared to 1080p from any camera? Geez.

Apples to apples is the best 4K SOOC vs the best 4K SOOC. Or the best 1080p SOOC vs the best SOOC.

Which SOOC 4K from the A1 do you want to compare to the R5 HQ 4k then? None? Your point is it does compete then. Sad.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Ruy Penalva

With almost twice the price that is unfair comparison with R5. Performance/Price ratio is hugely favorable to EOS R5. Maybe the right competitor to it be the forthcoming EOS R3. When this happen you will observe Sony A1 shrinkage to it's right place. Not to say R2, and R1 probably in the blueprint.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The R3 will probably be a A9 competitor, R1 may be near A1 level.

R5 is not at A1 level at all.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Ruy Penalva: The Canon R5 is nowhere close to the Sony A1 where it really matters: Speed, blackout-free shooting, and lack of rolling shutter. The R5 is noticeable behind the "old" Sony A9.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Sony needs an A7R5 to compete.

We keep making up reasons why the A1 is better that don't really matter. Like 'speed', even though most Sony lenses can't do 30 FPS, 3rd party lenses are limited to 15. Same with adapted lenses. Only 8 Sony lenses over 100mm (like a 24-105) can do 30 FPS.
And rolling shutter? lol, its the same on the R5 and A1 for video. And for still the R5 shoots 12 FPS with slightly less rolling shutter.

Where it matters, the R5 has some real advantages. 1st price. It costs thousands less and therefore has a larger target audience. 2nd auto focus. The A1 is good but doesn't work with as many type of subjects. You need to manually switch between people, animals, or birds (doesn't Sony know birds are animals?). And during video the animal and birds eye AF do not work at all.

Sony needs that A7R5 that shoots 20 FPS and 8K. And needs to update their AF too, expanding what it works with. Make the price $3500, and then you have the best camera on the market.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ Amal E: If you buy the A1 for action, you for sure also get lenses that can handle the speed. Expecting backward compability for old lenses seems a bit too optimistic.

You simply don't get A1 performance with the R5, but the R5 should be good enough for photographers who are not dedicated to fast action.

If you can't swich between human, animal and bird AF manually, I wonder how you structure your photography sessions. Use the Fn button, or assign this to a custom button That said, software updates might well take care of automated eye AF selecting, and eye AF with video as well.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Gotta love this from one of the academics above:
“R5 is not at A1 level at all”.
Will somebody PLEASE tell DPR this......😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣

Apr 26, 2021permalink

lol, I like they way we now try to say 20 FPS isn't fast enough for fast action, even though many think 10 FPS with the A7iii and A7Riv, is more than fast enough. Its like how we make excuses for the A1 body which is mostly only a repurposed A7Siii body without a fully articulating LCD.

Within the next year Sony will release an A7Riv that shoots 20 FPS and the same people will change their tune to '20FPS is more than fast enough!', and also a professional body A1, and then they'll say it has the best body and pros really do want a built-in vertical grip and top LCD.

I am old enough to remember the Sony NEX and A7 days when users said IBIS is waste, but then the same people said it is a 'must have' when the A7ii came out. And now we all agree it always was a 'must have'.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Amal E wrote: "Sony needs that A7R5 that shoots 20 FPS and 8K. And needs to update their AF too, expanding what it works with. Make the price $3500, and then you have the best camera on the market"

The A7R4 is Sony's high resolution king, for sports there are other options. 8K video is nice to have if it doesn't overheat the camera.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: R5 sensor readout speed. Slow, but very hot!

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Magnar
What is this - the word association round❓❓❓😂🤣😂🤣

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Kandid wrote:
"Gotta love this from one of the academics above:
“R5 is not at A1 level at all”.
Will somebody PLEASE tell DPR this...."

Well, if the R5 is at A1 level then why does Canon develop a R3 and possibly a R1??????????

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: It is the vital specs you asked for - those you prefer to look at as just of academic interest, since they don't support your brand bias.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Leitz
Well - better comes to mind 😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Actually as I’ve said the A1 IS better than an R5 and I would be delighted to have one. However all this posturing about it being ‘different league’ etc etc is just childish....

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Magnar
Talking of childish.......

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Kandid: What is wrong with being childish if it proves others to be wrong! 🤣🤣🤣

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Kandid, better/faster than the R5 for sure let's hope Canon's first stacked FF sensor will equal the A9 :)

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Magnar
Trying to ‘prove others to be wrong’ with opinions isn’t just childish it’s naive....😁
Anyhow how am I wrong? Are you now saying that the A1 ISN’T better than an R5 ❓❓. Straighten out your thinking here.....🧐

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

@Leitz
Are you SURE that’s what you are hoping for❓❓
Anyway doesn’t the A9 look a bit expensive/redundant now? All you fanatics were claiming it was the bees knees not two minutes ago. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Kandid, yes I have some friends still using Canon gear :)

The A9 is still a great lower res. sports camera, having a choise is good!!

Apr 26, 2021permalink

4-year-old A9 still beats R5 when you want to shoot silently (say golf game) with no rolling shutter that will distort the image. Same applies to shooting press conferences silently. A9 beats R5, and obviously A1 does too for the same reasons.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

That's funny because there are several videos on YouTube about how well the R5 does shooting professional golf. Obviously you'll get twice the pixels and maybe more DR than the old A9 too.
I came across them when trying to find a review that says the A1 AF is better than the R5. So far that is elusive and they all say AF is about the same, or the R5 is better or at least more advanced and easier to use.
If you can find a review or video that say the A1 is better please post a link, No one has so far, and so we are left with only the ones saying the R5 is better or at least equal .

Don't forget too the A9 has more rolling shutter with video and the A1 and R5 have about the same. If you shoot video the R5 would be the winner since its video is better and there are no 20 minute clips when shooting golf so no fear of overheating.
When Sony releases the A7R5 this will all change. That will be the camera that competes with the R5.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Shooting professional golf with electronic shutter on the R5? If you like bend golf sticks and egg shaped golf balls it will do fine.
The A9 is a dedicated sports camera, for video there are other, better options.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Thecylon

Amal conveniently skipped over the whole pesky silent shooting electronic shutter part!

The r5 has 1/60 readout vs 1/160 of the 2017 era a9.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

AND off we go again.....
95% of pro sports shooters will be using either a 1DX or D5/6 so this is a rather redundant argument....😁

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Kandid, wrong a lot of them are now using A9 instead 1DX or D5/6 due to silent shooting black out free view finder and even better AF. Associated press officially switched over 2 years ago to A9. You are behind the time.

There is still no Canon or Nikon camera that currently can do what the old A9 does.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Kandid
"AND off we go again.....
95% of pro sports shooters will be using either a 1DX or D5/6 so this is a rather redundant argument..."

Nobody was talking about the 1DX or D5/6, so what is your point? These old tech camera's have been surpassed anyway.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

@Butoa, Leitz
Back here on planet Earth pros who have to make a living (rather than spec sheet jockeys) will rely on what serves them reliably and well...😁😁😁

Apr 26, 2021permalink

"will rely on what serves them reliably and well."

So reliable is R5 that one never knows when it will shut down.

BTW has your cheque for shilling for canon came yet or you are shilling for free?

Apr 28, 2021permalink

Kandid, I already told you that is not true. Whitehouse official photographer uses Sony, and so do all pros who are working for the associated press. Why do you keep lying?

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@zxaar
It’s like dealing with a 2 year old....🥱
What I said as that pro sports shooters use 1DX or D5/6 models - not R5 or A1. Do try and keep up...
Love the cheque thing - no I provide this educational service for free 😁😁

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Butoa
So one guy uses a Sony - big deal - I DID say 95% and SPORTS shooters - your reading skills seem to be up there with zxaar - maybe you ARE zxaar....❓🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣
Yes I am sure that AP signed up with Sony out of the goodness of their heart 💰💰💰💰. The pros use what they want...😁

Apr 28, 2021permalink

"What I said as that pro sports shooters use 1DX or D5/6 models - not R5 or A1. Do try and keep up..."

So the "pros" will be using their heavy DSLR bricks till the end of times? Don't think so....

Apr 28, 2021permalink

@Leitz
Well the ‘end of times’ is hopefully a bit far off...for the time being perhaps...

Apr 28, 2021permalink

It's not one guy. AP has hundreds of photographers that shoot sports. AP officially switched to Sony A9. You will see during the Olympics there would be tons of A9 and A1. DSLRs days are over.

Apr 29, 2021permalink

Ruy Penalva

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The R3 will probably be a A9 competitor, R1 may be near A1 level.

R5 is not at A1 level at all.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

@ Ruy Penalva: The Canon R5 is nowhere close to the Sony A1 where it really matters: Speed, blackout-free shooting, and lack of rolling shutter. The R5 is noticeable behind the "old" Sony A9.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

Magnar If the R5 is so far behind the A1 why is DPreview only giving it a 2% difference in rating? Yet it cost 40% more...

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Camera's in different classes get different ratings.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

Doorbindar

Hi all!
Please help me understand!
Why should the price be higher on a camera that has less resolution and not significantly better images. Sony lowers the number of pixels and raises the price for it ?!
Maybe Sony needs a medium format camera instead!

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

All other aspects of the camera, that makes it the fastest full frame camera on Earth. Fast bursts, fast flash sync, enormous data power, etc. All this with a massive 50 Mp resolution.

This is a camera that can capture action like no other cameras, but can also be used for static subjects with excellent results. Other higher resolution cameras are way slower in every respect.

Then look at the highest end DSLR cameras from Nikon and Canon, they are more expensive, and ask why they are in the 20 Mp department.

Apr 26, 2021*permalink

Maybe you should learn a thing or two about photography and gear.

Apr 26, 2021permalink

So according to you, if someone were to release a 250MP camera tomorrow with zero AF, horrible DR, ton of noise, banding, electronic shutter only, and only 1 UHS-1 card, no video options, no viewfinder ... it will still be the best camera in the world just because it has more pixels?

Apr 26, 2021permalink

The only folks wanting this number of frames per second are professional sports photographers. The other 99% of photographers could care less. In my 20 years of shooting I have never needed more than 10 shots per second. End of story.

Apr 27, 2021permalink

daran

You can not set a lower bound for Auto ISO. The lower bound you can set only affects manual ISO. IMHO a bug, but that's how it is (firmware 1.01).

Apr 25, 2021permalink

You can and it works.
On the iso settings where you can choose a manual iso, AutoISO is at the top. The first entry. Choose that and select to the right (while the ISO list is still on the screen) and you can change the minimum and maximum ISO for auto ISO.

It’s there and it works and this is different from the overall ISO range limiter.

Apr 25, 2021*permalink

daran

Ha! How subtle. Never noticed there were two minimum settings. Thx.

Apr 26, 2021permalink