The Panasonic S5 is a 24MP full-frame mirrorless camera built around the same sensor as the Panasonic S1, but in a smaller, more affordable body. In fact, despite having a full-frame sensor, the S5 is smaller in every dimension than its Micro Four Thirds sibling, the GH5. Aiming to appeal to both photographers and videographers, it includes updates to Panasonic's DFD autofocus system, new creative photo modes, and video features that come close to matching both the GH5 and the much more expensive S1H.
Key specifications:
24.2MP full-frame CMOS sensor with no AA filter
Up to 4K/60p (APS-C), full-frame oversampled 4K/30p all with 4:2:2 10-bit color
Panasonic contrast-detect DFD AF with improved face, body and head detection
2.36M dot OLED EVF w/ 0.74x magnification
3” 1.84M dot fully articulating touchscreen
Dual SD card slots (1x UHS-II, 1x UHS-I)
96MP high-resolution mode
7 fps burst shooting (5 fps with continuous autofocus)
2.4/5Ghz Wi-Fi and Bluetooth with one-touch image transfer
Dust and splash resistant
460 shots per charge when used with EVF
Out-of-camera JPEG. ISO 320 | 1/125 sec | F5.6 | Lumix S 20-60mm kit lens @ 37mm
Whereas Panasonic’s first-generation full-frame cameras were somewhat niche-driven, the S5 is more of an all-around generalist, with a body and price point that more directly competes with the likes of the Nikon Z6 and Sony a7 III. For videographers, it’s a bit like a full-frame GH5 or a mini S1H, while photographers should benefit from an updated AF system and a variety of photography-focused performance enhancements.
The S5 will be available around mid-September for $1999 body-only, or $2299 with the Lumix S 20-60mm F3.5.5.6 lens.
Watch DPReview TV's first impressions review of the Panasonic S5.
Table of contents
What's new and how it compares
The S5 shares many video features with the S1H, adds some creative photo modes for stills shooters and gets an updated DFD autofocus system.
I wonder if we're going to see an S5r, and I bet Panasonic will introduce another, more-compact line of full-frame cameras too, so they can compete with the new little Sony and the Canon RP. With the improvements in auto-focus, I think Panasonic will really be a major player in the full-frame mirrorless world . . . especially when they upgrade to their next generation of cameras, with 8K video capabilities, over the next couple of years. Now that there are plenty of lenses available in L mount, the Sony advantage not so big any more. (There are 67 different lenses in L mount now, including more than a dozen Art lenses from Sigma, cheap lenses from third party manufacturers, like Venus Optics, 7 Artisans, Meike, and Kipon, and very high-end lenses from Panasonic and Leica, though a few of the 67 lenses are only different in that they are silver instead of black.)
I predict that by 2022 the L mount Alliance will be giving Sony a run for the money, like Canon will.
The L mount lens to Fuji X body adapter would be a little bit thicker than the Sony E lens to Nikon Z body adapter.. when said adapter comes out I'm excited to start trying that L mount Sigma glass. (I can't afford to change systems at the moment)..
Agreed, others are catching up to Sony with a quickness.
@daft Punk you can disagree as much as you want but is a fact panasonic afc sucks compared to the competition.
Can it be used for photo yes, for video absolutely not
Is it reliable for photo I would say must of the time unless you shoot in low light conditions, (afc is disabled) and non fast moving objects.
So no 100 page manual is going to make it work a like canons or sonys afc. They will always be behind until they decide to change the focus system. Such a shame considering how good the cameras are.
If your work relies entirely in afc better look for another system.
@ AlejandroI I don't know, the autofocus seems to be getting up there. I mean Max Y's autofocus test was pretty convincing. Also all the footage I have seen from the R6 has been horrible. The autofocus and colors are horrible. Potato Jet has had a lot of issues with it. Unfortunately, I think at this point Panasonic has been plagued with the reputation of horrible AF even if it improves.
Have you tried it? According to the video it doesn't seem to have awful AF. Instead it seems to work more like the AF on the Panasonic m4/3 cameras, which seems to be just fine. Is it as good as the AF in a Nikon Z7 or Canon R5? I don't know. Being that those are both flagship cameras that cost over $1,000 more than this camera, I doubt it.
@UllerellU a very common mistake .. I got 6 m4/3 cameras and S1, but this is a different beast. And yes, I have tried it. I recently got mine delivered (19/9/2020)
The mistake is not the users... if you need a 100 page manual to tell your users how to use a somehow mediocre focusing system the problem is not the users but the system.
Panasonic AF is not so good at guessing what the user wants to do. But learn how it works and I find it very reliable.
For example, in my experience, changing the speed and sensitivity settings of the AF can make a huge difference to performance. So if I am shooting a portrait and the person is moving a lot, by tailoring the sensivity and speed and actually telling the camera I want it to lock on to a specific person and track them ( by placing the box ) it locks on will not let go. And that is for stills and video. Just pointing the camera in the general direction of a crowd and you may get disappointing results - TELL the camera who your subject is, speed up or slow down the speed and sensitivity , and in my experience is doesn't fail.
Indeed, used in this way it is as reliable as the EOS R I once owned and internet folklore is that Canon DPAF is peerless. Which it is not in my experience, but I digress..
PRE-ORDERED ! For the following decisions: 1. It looks like a camera like a camera should 2. It looks young and muscular 3. It got Leica Kit Lens 20mm at widest where else that can be found 4. It is heavier than other beginner cameras it must be water-sealed 5. It is affordable camera with a Leica lens. I
That's true, but the Panasonic has Leica lenses available, shoots faster (up to 7 fps, with a 60 fps 8 MP electronic shutter mode), has a fully-articulating touch screen (vs the Nikon's low-res tilting touch screen), which offers more pixels for better image quality, and the Panasonic does video better, with a much faster frame rate in 4K (60p vs Nikon's 30p) and 1080 (180 fps vs Nikon's 60 fps).
I like the Nikon for its ability to almost see in the dark though, and expect it can probably focus in dark stadiums and gyms better. The low price point of the Nikno will win over a lot of Nikon fans though, and stop the hemmoraging to a great degree. Now that Nikon offers a value alternative to Sony's full-frame mirrorless, and Nikon owners who want a mirrorless camera can get a good one cheap, Nikon should not be losing so many customers to Sony . . . though the shear number of Sony's native mount lens offerings and high-end cameras, like the A7r IV, will continue to draw customers.
The Z5 has a pretty old sensor in it. It's cheaper and good for stills, plus Z mount glass is excellent. But so is L mount glass and this camera just seems a whole lot more capable overall. If it were me, I'd save up the extra and get the nicer S5. Or a Z6.
I'm probably stuck with my D810 and Nikon gear for a while, so I'm not interested in changing brands yet. Frankly, I come here to watch the fab videos Chris and Jordan do. Highly informative and entertaining. Thanks guys!
It is not phantom power. It is a tiny voltage for “electret” mics and it has been around for ages so please learn the difference between plug in power and phantom power. Very different things.
Not referring to Jordan. Read the article. There are NO camera 3.5mm mic jacks providing 48v phantom power. It is a completely different system. And I’m “pretty sure” I know the difference after 3.5 decades of professional audio experience. As for Jordan since you brought it up, his audio levels were clipped on every single TCS video for at least the first three years and then some. He knows enough to fake it and fool guys like you apparently.
Why wouldn't they continue micro4/3? It's a good system, with good, compact lenses and camera bodies. I've heard people say m4/3 is dead for years now, but it's still kicking. Hmmm . . .
I don't see any new thing in micro43 world. Most importantly no new sensor with BSI low noise. That's the big problem. Sony controls the micro43 sensor (and wants to kill APS-C and micro43) ; Panasonic sold its facility to develop a sensor; Olympus sold its micro43 imaging... so ? We saw a Panasonic S5 (FF) but no G6 (micro43) ... I love micro43 but i am not optimistic.
The M43 sensor has a lot of uses besides consumer imaging. It's not going anywhere. Plus there's that little Sharp 8K camera, if they actually make it.
So, so pleased to see the front dial is around the shutter button. GX8 has this, and I love it. Maximizes room on the grip, and allows operation of the dial with minimal shifting of the shutter finger. I don't understand why this isn't standard on all cameras.
I hate having the front dial around my shutter button on my Sigma SD Quattro H. I sure hope the dial on this Panasonic works better than the one on my SD Quattro H, which actually requires two fingers to make it work.
DFD has always been quite good when there is someone behind the camera. There’s always been a great tap to focus that nails it almost every time.
It’s not the speed or precision of DFD that’s the problem, it’s the accuracy when unassisted. The core problem has always been when completely unassisted taking selfies. It will sometime fail to grab the object. Still does, even here.
DFD inherently relies on compute power to determine what the object is. My guess is the reason that Panasonic has decided to stay with it is the thought that eventually you have enough computer power onboard that it reaches parity with PDAF… or possibly even surpasses it as the AI will eventually have a better idea of what’s going on within the scene.
I know that in other parts of Panasonic they certainly not only look ahead, but have a pretty good grasp of the development of technology and plan accordingly. So your assessment sounds reasonable why they stick it out with the DFD type AF. It also has the advantage of not having to deal with these special phase AF pixels, which obviously has generated some issues in other cameras.
Yep feel the same. Although there is certainly a justification for charging high price points for the new mirrorless FF cameras, the Sony A7iii is looking really good at around NZ$2800, and to be honest cheaper still if you can buy it in Asia, but sadly we are not going anywhere at the mo.
Has Pana ever commented on or does anyone know how DFD on these FF bodies is working with third party glass? Or even Leica glass? With M4/3 it was all kind of a mistery and was never thoroughly tested AFAIK, but there was *some* improvement in C-AF with DFD & Oly glass despite the reliance on lens profiles (that wouldn't be present for Oly lenses).
Our understanding is that all L-mount lenses have DFD data present, though it doesn't guarantee that they are able to focus fast enough, or communicate with the body at a fast enough speed, to take full advantage of that data.
Thanks Dale. I'd like to see the Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 OS Sport and maybe a Leica lens in a focal length of about 50mm, 90mm, or 135mm put through its paces on this new Panasonic body, just to give us an idea if the L Mount Alliance really is what it's supposed to be.
I've heard nightmare stories about the autofocus with Sigma lenses on Panasonic cameras, essentially unusable in video. I've avoided them for this reason, so I can't say from personal experience.
I've heard nightmare stories about Fuji X-Trans worm artifacts and unusable AF, too. Been shooting Fuji for years and have yet to encounter these difficulties to any meaningful degree (never seen the worms, and AF issues have been fairly minimal).
In other words, is it real or is it FUD from other brand trolls?
I'm inclined to believe it, it was on the L-mount forum here by real users, and if you look on B&H at the user reviews for Sigma lenses they group L-mount and E-mount reviews together, so you can see all the people on E-mount praise the quick and reliable autofocus, and all the L-mount reviews damning the horribly slow and unreliable autofocus. It really is quite humorous.
@Lees Channel: My understanding is that the older Sigma Art lenses that were designed for DSLRs and then just converted to L-mount are the ones that have continuous AF issues with the DFD system. The new DG DN lenses (14-24, 24-70 2.8, 35 1.2, 45 2.8, 85 1.4, and 100-400) were designed to work natively with L-mount/DFD and perform much better.
Nope, look at the user reviews for the DG DN lenses and they have the same dichotomy in the reviews where only the L-mount users are complaining about autofocus issues. Here is a sample of two sequential B&H reviews for the Sigma 35mm 1.2 DG DN, note the mount in the reviews:
Terrible MF ByEmanuele Lens Mount:Leica L
I wont even discuss the AF, which does not exist (just saying to whom it may concern..). My experience with the lens was terrible. The MF ring would get stuck every time during rec, and at the end of the clip I would be force to turn the camera off and on again in order to pull the focus. Pretty image, but it will never be enough. Unless you use it for photography! Was this review helpful to you?
Good lens but think carefully about whether the bulk is wort ByAlex Community Member Lens Mount:Sony E
Image quality is excellent and this is a very capable lens.Eye-AF works extremely well and nails focus every time and the lens is sharp even down to f1.2.
Other than overall giving it a better specs, am glad that Panny keeps on improving their CAF DFD system. It seems to be on par with industry leaders in this domain when stills are concerned, and resolved most of the issues for videos. It's still needs improvements while using the full-width of the sensor, it seems working very well in APSC modes, and that continuous AF hunt artefacts in the background are also mitigated.
One thing I really like to highlight here is what I have been saying since GH5 days, that DFD will keep on improving with better processors and improvements in the algorithm. AI gonna help it too. If this is the focus of Panny, I don't see why it's wrong, while other are mostly depending on their hardware implementation. They should only consider dumping this tech, if they feel they are not able to improve on it. But clearly, this is not the case, as they continuously delivering improvements. Carry on Panny!
@Naveed, you wrote “ It seems to be on par with industry leaders in this domain when stills are concerned,”
Just curious what are you comparing it against? AF in S5 maybe good enough but I don’t think overall it would be close to industry leaders such as 1DXiii.
Happy to see any reviews where they stress test it if you would kindly share any sources.
While just a kit lens, the 20-60mm kit lens makes a lot more sense for video than most other lenses. Often 24mm isn't wide enough and so you end up buying two lenses and spending a lot more for basic video.
Panasonic seems to understand video with ILCs a lot more than anyone else.
Agree - I noticed the zoom range of the kit lens right away when I read the article. I would really like this range. I never liked 24mm all that much as a wide end of a zoom lens.
Except for the whole sub-par continuous autofocus compared to literally all other full frame cameras, yes I suppose you could say Panasonic gets it. Lol. (It does appear to be better than the Sigma FP!)
@ Rubank My point was that kit lenses ith variable aperture aren't ideal for video. Despite the deal you get with it, I wouldn't pick this lens as my go to lens for the S5 shooting video.
Would love a walk around in this range for Sony. . I think this type of lens offering from lumix is a very smart move and a great way of grabbing the attention of enthusiasts segment.
If I was a purchasing my first serious camera, and was really weighing up overall system value, this lens would be a very key factor in my decision making. This is the range where FF shines, especially on the wide end - the biggest advantage and main reason for choosing FF offers IMO. Hopefully they release a budget friendly 40mm 2.8 pancake in line with there MFT system.
This is a very compelling offering and hopefully the competition are taking notes.
I don't get why everyone is complaining about the price. Comes at the same price as my A7 III, but has better IBIS, 10 bit video, 4K/60, high res mode, live composite mode, a better a screen, flip screen, a better touch interface, a useful extra dial on the top, a promised huge video fw, and a gifted sigma 45mm f/2.8.
Compare to that Sony has a better AF and faster burst. And still sells like hot cakes.
On an other note: This camera kind of proves that all DFD needs is processing power. It is more than enough for photos right now. And it is fine for APS-C mode videos. Full sensor modes are still lagging behind. I'm sure that they will never adapt PDAF. They rather leave the camera industry. So if we have this, at least keep updating and updating. Of course a good PDAF is better right now, but it looks like it's not getting better and better. Sony and Canon are great for years now, but there no huge improvements (Ai is happening on Pana side as well). So it might catch up at the end.
All these don't matter if it can't focus worth a damn. Also from the review videos all of them comment the ibis is worse than previous Panasonic cameras.
" the A7 IV will launch at this price point "...I wouldn't be so confident about that. I am sure it will have improvements but don't expect them for free.
Sony's latest releases have raised the price vs their preceding models, and most don't expect that to be any different.
But that's for another time in the future...who knows when.
For now you have a new Panasonic camera that is another strong release into the market.
Finally, the Panasonic is becoming an appealing proposition. It is still a tad heavier and bigger than I'd want, is not sufficiently high-resolution to appeal to Me, and lenses are still very expensive, but this is a camera that actually competes with (and possibly betters) the A7R III and others in the class. Something else: all cameras should sport an LCD display akin to the likes of FujiFilm X-T-100 and Panasonic S1H.
I always find it interesting when people mention that all cameras should have top mounted LCD screens. My G9 has it and I basically never use it. It just takes up space to look cool, like a sort of visual cue to other professionals that I have a proper camera...
I like how the top plate display on my Fuji always has battery charge indicators and exposures remaining, even when the camera is off. I admit to not using it a whole lot while the cam is on, but if I shoot waist level then I can use it and turn most of the text off in the LCD, if I want to.
So I don't get why the Z5 gets a ton of complaints that it's too expensive whereas (for the most part) folks are OK with the price of this camera. Can anyone explain it to me?
Right and yet you rarely here about this during reviews but when the R6 was announced the world was falling a apart because it did not do ALL-I either. This is advertised from what I can tell as a serious video competitor yet it doesn't do ALL-I ? Surprised that's all. OK thanks for confirming.
Yes agreed I can't tell the difference from casual videos between All-I and IPB from my R. In fact my computer can't either when it comes to editing. No issues with IPB 4k .
Regretfully not. Probably not a deal clincher for most here. For some it can be. Depends on use, grading and if you're capturing anything with a lot of motion. I prefer All-l for fast moving stuff. The rest of the time, IPB is okay and keeps the file size down.
I just wish the 400 Mbps ALL-I was in all panasonic cameras as the default. I know that's a lot of bits but that was my favorite codec to work with on the GH5. I am hoping for this on the S1 in the future because I think the tech is in the camera to do so.
L-mount looks more and more interesting. The S5 looks like a very nice addition, and a real battery grip is key for us with big hands and long tele preference. Taking Sigma into the equation there are about 20 top quality lenses covering 14 - 400 mm, including a macro lens. And more to come.
And for the primes lovers, Sigmas f/1,4 full range from 20 to 85 is hard to beat.
Just remember most of those Sigma's are adapted DSLR designs and don't AF particularly well. Only the designed for mirrorless lenses are fully DFD compatible.
actually, the E-mount looks more interesting. Sony shares it's lens protocol to most lens makers. there are so many lens for e-mount. furthermore it's the best 3rd party body for EF mount. Even Sigma which is L mount alliance makes it's MILC specific lens i.e. DN available for E-mount.
Emount is good and very versatile. However it’s old news and we are seeing new innovations in lens mounts. It remains to be seen if these newer mounts offer any advantages over E mount.
George1958, agreed. Sony E-mount was designed for APS-C, the fact that the mount works for FF is more a testament to lens designer talent and digital corrections becoming more widely accepted than anything else. I have an a6000 but that will probably be my last E-mount camera. I'll likely stick with m43 and add R mount or L mount FF cameras for low light work.
Vignes - is it that you just don't like the L mount? You previously favoured the E-Mount, now you appear to be leaning toward the R mount. No sure why you think the L mount is a waste. That is an opinion that strongly contrasts with those that view this camera more positively
“LUMIX S5 is capable of 4K 60p 4:2:0 10-bit, and 4K 30p 4:2:2 10-bit internal recording up to 30 minutes. It is also capable of 4K 60p4:2:2 10-bit HDMI output.
For 4K 30p 4:2:0 8-bit internal recording, there is no time limit.”
The tax which created that limit has been rescinded as of last year, July I think. But yeah, I looked it up and read a lot of really dry EU legislative documents which were the long way of saying there's no video/stills camera tax anymore.
I just wish camera makers would do people a solid and remove those limits with a firmware update. Wishful thinking, I know..
Mr Bolton I haven’t read the legislation but it’s possible they can’t legally remove the limits with firmware. If for instance the legislation allows for unrestricted use for products sold after a certain date (July 2019) then it would be illegal to update the old products. Perhaps someone with specific knowledge can comment on what the law change says.
@MikeRan, I think you might be right. As far as I remember, the additional "tax" was applied to video cameras, and the definition of video camera was that it can record 30min or more of continuous video. When the product enters the market, it is registered as a camera or video camera or something like that (correct if I am wrong). Moving a product from a camera to video camera category might be tricky. On the other hand, camera manufacturers should be happy that there is another reason for customers to buy a new camera.
I bought my new X-H1 from an authorized Fuji dealer on August 21, 2019, and registered it with Fuji.. they could give me the firmware to unlock it, and that would probably be legal. But of course things like that have a way of getting around, and pretty soon every X-H1 would evading the tax that no longer exists.. pandemonium!! That would be illegal I suppose.
But seriously, why are there now any cameras being released with the limit still in place?
Doing a little more research I understand they relaxed the rules So most hybrids don’t fit in the category now. They didn’t completely eliminate them. Video cameras still have a duty. I could be wrong.
And your purchase date isn’t the same as the import date. And I’m not sure which date matters. And it would be virtually impossible for the manufacturers to manage who gets an unlocked firmware and who doesn’t.
True, about managing which extant cams get unlocked firmware. But yeah, on the new ones made after the due date.. why would there still be a limit? A C300 is a video camera, a GH5 is not.
Panasonic, please give us a new AF system using Time of Flight ! DFD is ok and was a great idea (no banding from phase detect AF, no defaults in image quality at all), but it needs WAY too much processing power it seems ! Even more in video (but video specs will continuosly grow with 8K...etc so the processing power will always increase) So maybe for stills photo it will be very great one day (even better than phase AF who knows) with increasing processing power inside the camera, but for video, it seems to be impossible to match the required processing power... I'm a photographer, not a videographer, so I don't care a lot of AF in video, but it is terrible for your marketing image and the sales ! Otherwise, apart AF, you make VERY great camera (ergonomics, colors, IBIS, optics, features, video specs, animal/human detection, ease of use, screens... etc), so what's a pity to still have AF unreliable... Maybe with your next cameras family... ?(better processor, TOF AF ? organic sensor ?)
Personally I’m satisfied with CDAF , the DFD was an innovation and progression. I’m not sure but I’m hedging my bets that there are more innovations to come for CDAF.
Yes probably, but it will need a lot/more of processing power again... And today the processor inside the Lumix cameras is not enough powerfull in many cases it seems (continuous AF in videos 4K/24P for example on this S5) But I also like to have perfect image quality that comes with Contrast AF, without the issues associated with phase detect AF. Time Of Flight AF (also called LIDAR sometimes, in the recent ipad or the futur iphone 12 for example) maybe the ultimate solution, and it seems Panasonic is maybe already working on it : https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-is-developing-a-new-tof-micro-four-thirds-sensor-for-a-new-perfect-autofocus-system/
ToF is not really a practical solution for FF AF. It provides some benefit for smartphones but the AF needs for large sensor cameras are very different.
Can you be more precise please ? What are the limitations of TOF linked to the camera sensor size you are talking about please ? For me TOF/Lidar system runs on its own dedicated sensor, separated from the main camera sensor (see the additionnal dedicated hole on the recent iPad Pro) Maybe do you mean the short DOF involves to be more precise with a FF sensor than with a smartphone sensor ?
The basic reason is that smartphone AF needs are much less stringent than for a FF sensor. The typical smartphone sensor only has to AF up to a subject distance of about 8 feet. Beyond that everything is in focus. So it's practical to use a TOF type system (which requires a return signal) at those close distances.
Whereas FF (and even crop sensor) cameras of course still need to actively AF at much farther distances - at least 100 feet for a common consumer lens like a 70-300. It's much harder to get significant return signal from something so far away.
Its all aimed at video users isn't it? It's a TOTAL TURN OFF for the majority of stills shooters. Still, with this and the Z5, fuji X system looks under pressure.
Actually with its excellent single AF (which can AF in very dark unlike A7III) and 96MP high-res mode and slightly higher DR than A7III, it is a very good photography machine.
Indeed, AF-S is leagues ahead of Fujifilm, who can barely focus in sort-of-dark situations unless you use their most bleeding edge cameras whose innards are the same as the T3's. Hell, a 5D2 focuses as well or better in the same light as the T3.
@NEXUser DPR's first impression about AF in S5 "though my early experience suggests that video AF on the S5 is still less refined than the phase-detect AF on most modern cameras."
Ghuraify, we cannot generalize "AF". There is single shot AF and continuous AF (tracking AF is a subset). Panasonic cameras have been better than Sony cameras in single shot AF. I know, because G9 can autofocus in a darker room than my A9. I tried both together, Lumix G9 was clearly better. A7III has worse performance than A9. A7III is better in tracking AF, that is for sure. I use my A9 in AF-C because AF-S is slower. I don't know the reason but that's how it is.
Well, I don't use AF-S that much and when I do, certainly the camera is not struggling to get the focus in daylight nor night time.
You can't favor one AF system based on AF-S only. Even though the G9 is one of the best CDAF, it can't match the performance as well as accuracy of PDAF. You can pull a comparison between the two cameras and check the results. AF is not based on AF-S only as there are a lot of things involved there, thats why I said that the overall performance of A7III's AF is better.
@Ghuraify PDAF is very precise, but not accurate. PDAF produced very repeatable results, but there may be systematic front or back-focusing. CDAF is both accurate and precise (in general no systematic FF or BF). CDAF is also very fast (Panasonic DFD). PDAF is also very fast (I think DFD is typically faster, depends also on lenses; S-AF).
That being said, "on-sensor PDAF" is typically PDAF + CDAF. This means mirrorless PDAF cameras are very accurate, but this is not because of PDAF.
The ability to keep the subject in focus is different thing than being able to focus accurately. However, insanely fast single-AF (with tracking) makes continuous-AF redundant . Panasonic is not there yet with, but they are getting pretty close.
All this is related to stills, and not video. Video AF is a totally different subject.
Nexuser I want to like it but every time video is mentioned a little wave of depression wafts over me. I use afs all the time, with eye focus overriding when it finds it
Let me thank you first for taking this time to write your very informative post. Many thanks brother.
That being said, I referred to A7III to have PDAF as it is the way marketed and known for. However, as I said before, the AF system on the A7III is superior overall to the S5 (we will wait also for more reviews).
CDAF system on Panasonics (most recent models) is not as reliable as the PDAF system in Sonys (most recent models). This was my point of argument in the beginning.
Even 10 years old cameras are excellent in AF-S. However, as I said before, this is a really tempting camera, I would take the S5 anytime if I wasn't invested in Sony.
Really good hybrid bargain (especially with the video support from Panasonic)
Neat package. Hopefully the price will drop a bit in the near future. I'd be tempted to drop my gear for a S5+20-60, 85/1,8 and Sigma 100-400 for 2500 bucks.
The S5 is a nice addition to the fullframe crowd. Good news DCI 4K is a planned firmware, though why wait... technical limitations at release??? The micro HDMI like the R5 is a big no and limits use of external recorders and monitors. That said, if I bought this camera, I would use neither, but I know its an issue for some. In many ways this is the camera the S1 should have been, arriving with vlog installed and not that silly paid upgrade. Its a shame 60p is an S35 crop. There are some possible overheating issues on 10 bit recordings. Maybe not to the extent of the R5, but possibly consistent with the R6. The improved AF is good news and leads hope a possible GH6 would benefit from it, not to mention a successor to the S1H.
About overheating, apparently according to Panasonic it should last half an hour at 40 deg C or 43 deg C. I got this info from one of the reviews of this camera; probably from three blind men and an elephant.
As an S1 owner, I feel absolutely punked by Panasonic. This is the camera which many S1 buyers would have preferred. Now, the used prices will go through the floor.
It’s impossible to stay ahead these days. Arguably you invest in a product that is already obsolete as the next iteration is already in R&D with a projected release date. Better staying with your preferred brand and waiting it out. You will save money not buying small upgrades that are easily leapfrogged with frequent product updates. Here’s the other thing, new cameras don’t take better pictures, or at least when older cameras are used competently . Ask yourself, what are you buying that will make a real difference to your photography in terms of the final image?
@George1958 you miss the point here. I don't feel an unneccessary urge to upgrade my gear to just have always the newest camera or such. Gerald Undone articulates this perfectly in his S5 review saying: "(S5) has basically rendered the S1 obsolote because S1's advantages aren't worth $700 extra"
Sorry to have misunderstood, however I do think there is a flaw in the first past the post method for evaluating cameras. This is allied to my point about there being little difference in final imagery between comparable cameras. I know people who still shoot Nikon D700 and Canon 5D and the images hold up against any of the modern crop of FF mirror less brands. I don’t know what the price was for these in the day they were new but , taking into account inflation the latest gear seems to offer some very good value options. I personally would not feel hard done to if Panasonic offered a near like successor model more cheaply. It’s the way of things.
Just enjoy the great purchase you already made. What the S5 is to the S1, the same can be said about the Z 5 to the Z 6. I'm happy with my Z 6 and look at the Z 5 as a sidekick rather than competing for the same recognition. Plus give it a short wait and those that purchase the S5 now will see an S1 mark 2 and may feel punked when (if) they introduce phase detect ;)
UK pricing is quite interesting on this one. £1799, compared to £1718 for the Nikon Z5. Unlike CaNikon who take the dollar amount, add some and then replace $ with £, this actually looks reasonable.
Looks a bit fiddly and cramped, similar to Sony yes.
Anything smaller than a Z6/R6 is probably too small to be actually comfortable to use. If a person cant carry a 600g camera with their 900g to 3kg lens, its not the cameras fault.
It's you ;) I think this camera is a lot prettier: the grip is one with the body, with the same rugged material, the buttons are better placed and better indicated and the grip seems a lot more confortable
Even though I am a Sony user, I have to disagree with you. Sony's form factor is bad as I need a bigger grip. Design wise I believe that either A-mount or Panasonic's S1 series are the perfect form factors (at least for me)
Soon as I saw this I thought hello this looks like an upgraded G90/95, now if I was younger I would want one. But will remain happy with my G90. I had a G9 but too large and heavy for my ageing hands. The size of this S5 looks very manageable, and specs look promising.
@SteveAnderson "Looks a bit fiddly and cramped" The grip looks MUCH LESS cramped. I have a7III & a7RIII as well as Panasonic GX8. My pinky hangs off the Sonys but not off the GX8, thanks to Panasonic positioning the front dial AROUND the shutter button rather than below it. The S5 adopts this config as well. Yay. Also, there's more space for fingers between the lens barrel and the grip.
Hi Jacques, I agree. This appears decent but havnt held it yet. And should have written so. I just reacted to the possible Sony fanboys seeming to claim that Sony is best.
I have tested an a7, a7R3 and a6500. For 2 weeks each. I wanted to like them but actually using them was no fun. Technically the a7R3 is excellent. That dial below the shutter is nearly impossible to use without letting go of the grip as you say.
And just fiddly overall. a7R3 not terrible. But in comparison to Nikon/Canon not good.
The bottom line is that the S5 is a pretty impressive camera and that Panasonic has made great improvements with their DFD AF system. Max Yuryev said that Panasonic basically rebuilt the software of the system from the ground up and it really shows.
I don’t get Panasonic‘s dogged insistence on sticking with CDAF. I know they have said, in an interview previously published on DPR, that the decision is based on having ultimate image quality... but to me, the emperor has no clothes when it comes to that. Even with a Nikon Z6, I have yet to encounter a situation where PDAF banding has been remotely noticeable. To me, and many others, it seems, the benefits of PDAF far outweigh the supposed drawbacks of putting it on the sensor.
The problem is DFD is great for SAF in landscape photography. Not having PDAF in that particular situation is an advantage. But for anything that needs CAF like wildlife, action, portrait and video DFD is not that good. And Panasonic always markets their cameras as video specialist. Maybe their marketing team should advertise them as the ultimate landscape photography camera.
Can it do AUTO ISO in Manual mode with LOG enabled. Can it do Shutter priority in Video mode and auto aperture and auto ISO Can it have multiple custom settings for Video. I did enjoy the video side of my old G85 Panasonic. Thanks.
It isn't so much that this S5 is small, it's that the GH5 is insanely large for a m4/3 body. IIRC, the only non-Panasonic mirrorless full frame camera that is heavier than the GH5 (725g) is EOS R5 (738g). And even the S5 is large by industry standards: the S5 weighs 714g, while all Sony, Nikon and Canon bodies other than the R5 clock in under 700g.
Anyone asking what could be the benefit of a bulkier body should look at Kirk Tuck's recent posts. He talks about using a G9 (not even the videocentric Lumix!) all day in triple digit Texas heat. Now he just purchased an S1H. Chris and Jared's test chows that Tuck probably could not have done this with the S5 without some interruptions, though the S5 did cool down faster than the Canon R's. If Panasonic made a 35mm in the GX style, that would interest me. Or, they could make an m43 version of that 20-60 kit lens (10-30) before the equivalency cops come out).
@Thecylon. Are you shooting video ALL DAY in that Florida heat? Look at the Tuck post and then look at the DPRTV review. I’m mainly stills, so heat dissipation is not as important to me, but for someone more video oriented, it can be a big deal.
I've been MFT for years. I was probably 70% video, 30% photo but now I'm about 50/50. I make short films as hobby so I've had GH2, GH3, GH5 and now G9. I have the PL 25mm and Lumix 12-60, and a few other kit zooms.
My gear is not limiting me...I still have a lot to learn to get better in photography.
That said, the S5 is tempting me to move on from MFT. I can sell all my MFT gear and continue to learn more with a "more capable" system.
Should I? Or should I invest in some Pro glass for MFT? I'm not sure what to do.
My main concerns are cost (a bit) and size of the lenses. I really love MFT small overall system size.
Is there any way to quantify the quality improvement in S5 FF vs. G9 with Pro glass?
It sounds like you may be headed straight for a G.A.S. trap. If you are interested in messing around with FF, maybe rent a FF body and a prime if you are somewhere where that's possible, and see how you get a long with it. I would advise against dumping your MFT gear altogether. FF is just a different format with pros and cons, it's not going to all the sudden make you a better photographer.
As a m4/3rds photographer with lots of PL glass, I am happy to continue to use my GX8 and GM5 combination. The GX8 is such a good camera that I feel no need to "update," although improvements could always be made. Panasonic does not look like they are going to make them.
Therefore I might make room in my bag for a GX8 with a full frame sensor transplant at the same weight. (about 500gm) to compete with the new Sony at that weight.
The closest L mount FF lens to my M4/3rds PL25 at the moment would seem to be the Sigma 45 2.8. There may be an equally small L mount 50mm of PL quality that I don't know about, but if there isn't perhaps Panasonic could make one for the "SX10" and the S5. F.
What most people don't really know or understand is that Panasonic's approach is "very close to the state of the art, as long as reliability and performance remain in the top". Panasonic has never launched a product that could be proven not reliable or performing less than what it says it does.
As a former Panasonic, Nikon, Fuji, Sony, Oly and Canon user I can confirm: Nothing comes close to Panasonics reliability. The cameras are truly build like tanks and work as they are unbreakable.
For me clear the #1 in industry when it comes to build quality.
...Except for the rear dials on the GX85s, which seem to fail with alarming regularity, even on new devices, as I can attest to. That said, their warranty department did take care of me promptly and in my subsequent 2 years of ownership, I've had no subsequent problems with.
My GX85 viewfinder module failed shortly after warranty expired ($500 repair quote), and dirt impregnated the sensor (similar repair quote); My FZ1000 stabiliser failed under warranty, and it had recurring sensor dirt issues; My 20mm 1.7 stopped dead electronically after little use; My 14-140 literally fell off the camera and was deemed irreparable; My 100-300 fails intermittently; My 14-42mm also broke off the camera (plastic mount); My G85 has dirt under the sensor glass that now requires a dismantling.
To be sure, I've had problems with Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad and Sony gear as well (Pentax has been indestructible!), but I wouldn't put Panasonic on any special pedestal.
After reading the rumors I didn’t have much hope for this being any good for video. But Panasonic came through. The camera after the FW update Jordan mentioned will have everything the A7siii left out. This might be the best camera for young film makers on a budget.
2 questions: 1) Does it allow you to set separate ISO, shutter and aperture settings for video and photo? 2) Why doesn't anyone point out the HORRIBLE placement of the headphone jack??? Panasonic could have easily placed it further back so it doesn't get in the way of the flipping LCD screen. Some of their design engineers must be on crack!
I have not checked this camera, but Panasonic was very stubborn placing an external mic jack under the flip-out LCD screen in their consumer camcorders for years. It was a true crime against users. Only now, when camcorders got much less fashionable for video, they included the mic jack in a useable place.
Side hinged lcd for the videographers and still they are not happy - best to have stuck with the tilt lcd and kept all the still photographers happy and most of the videographers as well .... :)
Very interesting to have a full frame camera smaller than my EM-1-11 and at a competitive weight. But it's still a full frame and I can only speculate that the comparable M4/3 lenses against the lenses for this cam will still give the EM-1 family an advantage for those who seek lighter weight in the M4/3 vs the FF Pany. Right?
Careful with comparable - comparable should be mean equivalent focal length (what I think you're asking about) and equivalent aperture.
Equivalent focal length, yes the m4/3 70-200 f/2.8 mm-e lens are far smaller and lighter than the FF equivalent. So yes, if you want equivalent focal lengths the m4/3 is a much smaller and less expensive option.
However equivalent aperture will eat your lunch - no such thing as a 35-100 f/1.4 zoom. The big Oly Pro f/1.2 prime lenses are bigger and more expensive and slower in equivalent aperture than full frame f/1.8 lenses.
My Oly 25mm F1.2 cost me £800, my Canon 50mm f1.2 cost me £1500. So from my point of view the Olympus prime is better value for money at a little over half the price of a comparable FF lens, and it’s lighter and focuses faster
But the relative aperture of the Oly would be the same as a FF camera with a 50mm f2.4, if you want the same Bokeh. So, it depends on what you need. If you really really need all the bokeh in the world, you cannot substitute anything for FF especially in the 50mm range. Nobody makes a 25mm f0.6 for the m43 system. That would be the apples to apples comparison in regards to image.
That being said, i am ditching FF for m43 because i am just sick of the weight and cost of the lenses and I can get primes for the m43 that are close enough. For landscapes, where everything is in focus, I am totally fine. I got the Sigma 56mm f1.4 that is great wide open so I can still get some bokeh type shots. Also, i can carry two m43 bodies and not have to lens swap with the FF rig i had and it still weighs less.
Sure thing Steve, the aperture will be different but still F1:2 on both lenses, and as you rightly point out the DoF will be deeper with the M4/3 at F2:4. I can tell you that in my experience the Olympus 25mm F1:2 is sharper at F1:2 than the canon 50mm f1:2. The issue is the shallow DoF is so thin it’s easier to be just off focus , maybe the model moved slightly , or the AF was off. The Olympus 25mm f1:2 is more forgiving and tends to give me more keepers
I think the s5 would go nice with some slower lenses like 12-60 kit it comes with.
That being said the olympus and even panasonic fast primes cannot be beat it terms of size. That is unless you care about having ultimate shallow DOF. Although I really don't know why people make it such a big deal, it's really personal preference. Honestly I think both formats produce nice out of focus backgrounds.
For me I think the only real advantage is high iso performance = less post processing.
So we have the S5, Nikon Z5, Sony A7iii, and Canon EOS R as competition in this price range as an "entry level" FF mirrorless. I left out the much cheaper A7ii as its pretty old and specs are well short of what these newer cameras offer. Canon is a weird one but the EOS RP spec wise is no match for the others and the R6 is a bit more in price. So the EOS R seems to be the competition here.
For a guy like me who is not invested in any of the systems right now and is a stills guy with no interest in video, is there a clear cut winner? I'm thinking Z5 or maybe A7iii?
A7iii most likely in general terms due to all around capabilities (no major weaknesses) and lens selection.
But the other systems have key strengths and interesting lenses, so it's really down to the individual to decide what exactly they want and what fits best.
To be honest, current competition in ILC world is more for videos than stills. So yes pick any A7iii, S5, Z5 or RP. That would be my order of preference if I would be still only. If you would have any slight interest in video I would only suggest S5!
If possible, rent before you buy; you're not just buying into a camera but an entire lens system as well.
Or if that doesn't work, then if possible in today's time, visit a local camera shop and try them out in a more limited way. See which one you like better.
Often people fixate on specs but overlook an important point: usability. The camera that you enjoy using and also find easier to use is usually the one most valuable to you.
IMHO the Canon R is the best designed with the best ergonomics, but YMMV. I haven't tried the Z5 but knowing Nikon it too probably has great ergonomics.
The A7III is a very competent camera but to me has the least favorable ergonomics and usability. And one thing that many find annoying: the A7III doesn't come with a battery charger.
The Z5 is at a different level due to a much lower price. The S5 should be compared to the Z6 since they cost the same. Price wise, the Z5 is in a class of its own and appeals to someone who doesn’t place a lot of value on video - and that’s a lot of people. Perhaps the “silent majority”. The S5 remains a video centric camera with an even more limited lens selection than Nikon. Different cameras for different customers.
@Old Cameras Yea, the Z5 is intriguing because it does appear to leave out the video functions I don't need and thus comes with a lower cost. I also like the kit lens. Most people don't, and I doubt it's something I'd shoot with all the time, but that pancake zoom seems like something I'd really enjoy traveling with or just taking for casual shooting.
I recently bought a new Sony A7Rii from B&H for about $1100 on sale. I don't see a reason to pay almost twice for something less. Granted I do very little video.
Yes its your choice completely, but I would revise my above mentioned list and like to state, my order of preference for stills is S5, A7iii, Z5, Eos R. and the reason is I look up on youtube and many testers found the C-AF for stills is as predictable as A7iii, and the rest is all better on S5. Lens choices? they are plenty in L-mount now. Obviously more options are better but it will only get better with the passage of time.
I've had a camera that can transfer RAW, but they are honestly too big to be practical unless you need like 5 of them. It's way too slow over Wireless. Lightning to SD reader, I can rip the whole card to my phone in 2 mins.
I’ve always thought of the wireless transfer feature as something you do to process a few frames in the field before you go home, so only being able to do like 5 of them at a time is sufficient, if not optimal. I’ve found being able to download a few JPEG frames from the camera to my iPhone is invaluable sometimes, like when I want to send out copies of an event photo to attendees before they go home; being able to do that with RAW would be even better.
You can transfer Raw files with the newer Olympus Cameras. It is very convenient actually, this way i do a lightroom edit on my mobile device while traveling or hiking. I use it all the time and for me it would be inconvenient to change to another system without that option. Anyone knows if there is a possibility to compress panasonic raw files, they are huge...
It's a tad frustrating because all these choices are good, but each system seems to have a really cool/interesting native lens that another system does not. So it's really difficult to choose one. I prefer native lenses for various reasons, so when looking at those in the FF mirrorless segment, I believe only the FE mount has a compact 28mm lens which is a focal length I like. Meanwhile only the L-mount has a lens like the 20-60 you just mentioned. RF has that wonderful 50mm 1.2.
I've been using Sony 24/1.4 as a travel lens. I found it more versatile than my Tamron 17-28 and 28-75 I used before. Don't really miss the wider end or longer end, but 1.4 makes a big difference indoors and at night. Also the lens sharp at the center, I have no problems cropping with 42MP camera. I'm tempted to replace all my zooms with smaller faster primes.
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