Panasonic Lumix DMC-CM1 camera review

OK, well I was trying to be nice about it. No argument with your reply, I like the evil empire part tho.

I sincerely hope this mafia-like behavior will backfire on Cupertino. I'm pretty sure that millions of kids won't be happy never being able to stream free music again thanks to Apple. But then again, Apple unfortunately control the media, so they will definitely try to blame it on someone else... (record companies maybe?)

iPhone won't get this. The camera on this phone is old way thinking....bigger/more = better for spec whores.

Reportly Apple is working with SONY on curve sensor and inhouse with lens-shift super resolution. Might be a few years before smartphones have such features but when it arrive, it won't weight 200g and 3 times as thick as regular phones.

@Peiasdf - so what you're saying is, this is a camera that lets you get dramatically better photos than an iPhone, now in the real world...

...whereas with an iPhone, they might find a way to deliver equivalent image quality tot his, but a few years down the line and in a much smaller package.

Got it.

@Pediasff

Like all fanboys, you just buy every piece of Apple propaganda hook, line and sinker. Apple is about buying the cheapest components on the market. That's why iPhones have a 2012 8mp Sony camera module, the same used by budget Androids.
Apple isn't interested in giving you quality, just in fooling you into believing you bought the best phone on the market.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Take a look at the "Queen" card (default for low light test) at ISO 125. The Queen is clearly blurrier than the Galaxy Note 4.

too much sharpening.

It needs OIS, xenon flash, lens protection.

No, there is no lens cap.

In the short term I'd unlock the boot loader to root the existing firmware image.

In the long term maybe clockworkmod or something will eventually support the special hardware.

That would completely defeat the purpose of owning one device, but you can make that comparison if you think that's fair.

true but I was looking at it for its value. with those two devices, you'd also get better IQ and performance in each.

if only they could make it less expensive maybe at the price of the current RX100 III then this would be compelling for this niche. I almost jumped of my seat when I saw sample thumbnails; it has very good IQ for a smartphone.

not in the camera world but many smartphones have it...after shooting with it for a month or so I'd say it would be a great addition to the CM1.

Unusable? How so?

Other than my Nokia 925 and 930, I've never had an actual camera with IBIS on it. Lenses? Sure, but OIS made them larger than they had to be, for sure.

Don't write off a feature until you've tried it fully. I didn't think I'd like the 4K Pre Burst but now I use it daily. It's an amazing way to take photos, being able to rewind and advance time and pick the perfect frame.

PV,

Okay, you're correct about the stops--indeed each stop getting faster is a multiplication of the last.

The iPhone whatever doesn't shoot raw--so in fact no iPhone should even be in the test.

PV,

I don't understand how you can make the stop point so clearly and then be so wrong about the weakness of jpegs.

Jpeg is NOT a sub-format of raw, jpeg is truncated data which is nearly useless for WB adjustments. Then there are other strengths in raw.

PV:

The tiny pixels line is getting old. Well most raws have at least 12 bits of data, and these appear to have more.

Right, there is the Sony exception. It appears to be a weakness in the Sony system.

Just white balance adjustment alone is reason for raw.

The "physics" line is also getting old.

I suggest that you get out of camera jpegs and raws from the Sony RX100III, and even with raw compression you can see the reason for raw real easily. And that's the same sensor as this Panasonic.

"The tiny pixels line is getting old."

In fact they get tinier and tinier, as those 1/3.2" sensors have more and more pixels stuffed onto them.

" Well most raws have at least 12 bits of data, and these appear to have more. "

Which "these"? How do they "appear"? They don't. Even 12mpix 1/2.3" sensors show noise and require noise reduction IN JPEG, AT BASE ISO. Meaning even 8 bits is too much, for a sensor twice as big!

PV,

This is a 1" sensor in this Panasonic.

Also the 1/2.3 sensor in the Olympus XZ10 was much better shot in raw, likely a Sony sensor. 12MP from what I remember.

Just for white balance alone raw is real useful with smaller sensors. I am NOT simply talking about NR.

Why do insist on thinking I've never shot raw with a small sensor?

You just don't get how much better raws are from small sensor.

Instead of quoting math, I suggest you find files.

No, you were complaining about lack of JPEG on iPhone, your words: "The iPhone whatever doesn't shoot raw--so in fact no iPhone should even be in the test." - exactly the point I argue against. iPhones have pixels so small, even JPEG is too generous for them.

This Panasonic has raw.

PV:

Right this Panasonic has raw--yep I get that.

However smaller sensors like that in the iPhone also benefit from raw. See the under-remarked Olympus XZ10. Meaning an iPhone at the current sensor size could get some help with raw.

I really think you need to look at raws from a small sensored camera instead of going with what the "math" tells you should be.

XZ10 has twice the sensor of iPhone. And twice the aperture too - so 4 times more light in total. And does not benefit anything. RAW shows noise at base ISO100 even on bigger, 1/1.7" sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=oly_xz2&attr13_1=oly_xz2&attr13_2=canon_eos5dmkii&attr13_3=canon_eos5dmkii&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0&y=0

Where is a benefit even for that, let alone smaller one?

PV:

The XZ10 has a 1/2.3 sensor, you look to have confused the XZ10 with the XZ1/2.

DPR did NOT review the XZ10.

Indeed the XZ10 does have a faster and better lens than the iPhone.

I don't know why you keep bringing up noise reduction. NR is only one reason for shooting raw, and I've not really mentioned NR.

I've concentrated on things like white balance control, and WB is much better with raw--that's no matter the sensor size.

Just to have good white balance adjustment possibilities is reason to shoot raw. Then there's exposure adjustment and the lack of jpeg artifacts. Both of which remain better with raw files--even from small sensors.

I did not confuse anything, as I said, XZ-10 has even smaller sensor than XZ-2 which ALREADY shows noise at base ISO - in gray, not even in shadows.

LKJ,

The newest OS is rarely the best, just ask users of Win 8 and recent Mac OS "updates".

The last time Microsoft's newest OS was best, was with Win 7, which was really just Win Vista done right. So you'd have to go back to the release of XP in 2001, for newest=best. And XP was an evolution of Win 2000.

I never did figure out what happened to Android 3.xx. The skip from 2 to 4 suggests some issue--meaning whatever variety of Android 3 existed didn't work out.

And in 2015, Apple seems to be trying to recreate the crash prone systems from Microsoft of yore. (Though yes, Apple is faster with fixes.)

LR:

I thought it must have existed, but clearly it didn't stay around for long. (From Wikipedia, it seems to have been limited to the year 2011.)

yes, they probably realized having two versions for tablet and phone wasn't a great idea ;)

LR,

Things like not supporting Flash in the browser until Sept 2011, with V 3.2, suggests someone wasn't paying attention.

The Lollipop 5.0 update for the CM1 was announced a few months ago I think. I imagine it will roll out by summer. Which makes this cameraphone a real possibility for me.

mgrum,

That makes sense, given what's posted on Wikipedia.

Honestly I don't have any specific problems with 4.4 (I've never used it). I just figure I wouldn't want to go back to an older version since I have a 5.0 phone already. Maybe someone who has never used 4.4 or 5.0 wouldn't even notice the difference.