Hmm, how do you insert graphics here?

M43 will use slightly less energy, and is easier to stabilize. For what ever reason, the recent M43 sensors have less rolling shutter and can output 60 FPS (though limited by buffers).
And of course M43 sensors cost less to manufacture. I've read the price goes up near exponentially with size. Maybe someone can confirm.

@King Penguin

Hahaha... if I could afford (or rather justify) a leica system then you can bet that I would also consider the GF line of MF cameras from Fuji. The leica system can be FF, but it sure carries a MF format price tag if not higher. :-P

Affinity Photo distinguishes 20 megapixels and 19.99 megapixels.
Same huh?

One thing I can say for sure however: NEVER EVER take advice on frame rates or any other deliverable spec from Google. Your client will not accept “because Google told me to” as an excuse for your screwups—and doubly so if you get the info off of a site called DIYPhoto.
I have heard dire stories from people who assumed that it was OK to mix 23.97 and 24p on the same timeline and for whatever reason it created huge problems.

It is always more efficient to ask beforehand than to have to go reshoot a whole day’s work because you followed anonymous advice from the internet.

How noisy is that fan?

But on a GH4 that gave 160 levels for the image, which gives a lot of posterisation on stuff like Blue Skies unless you're ultra careful. (On my GH5 I really like VLogL, but the GH4 was really about CineD IMHO.)

Also I find the GH5 VLogL footage doesn't play nice with Varicam ACES IDTs, quite annoyingly... Do they have ACES support for the S1H or do they say it will work with Varicam settings?

23-45mm f/1.2
even sigma 24-35/2 is 1.5 stop slower

Ok. "Bright light" was the key.

Richard: Thank you. So it appears that, in bright light, the larger sensor is advantageous over the smaller sensor (only?) when the larger-sensor camera does not need an ND (or only needs a lighter ND) but the smaller-sensor camera does, all other parameters (e.g., shutter angle, exposure, and DOF) being the same.

@zw1975 no than you can still choose between those two advantages. (DoF matched, shutter angle matched, enough light available to saturate the GH5S)

-A similar dynamic range with better tonal quality
-Nearly 2EV of additional dynamic range but with comparable tonal quality to a GH5S

Panther: thank you. Just wondering where the better tonal quality or wider dynamic range comes from? Larger pixel size (assuming the same total pixel count)? But the aperture is smaller in the case of the larger-sensor camera. Doesn't a pixel of the larger sensor receive the same amount of light as the corresponding pixel of the smaller sensor?

@panther fan: thank you. I'm still confused :(. Can we use an example? Assuming:
1. 4K-pixel count FF at 1/60 s, ISO 640, f/11, no ND; and
2. 4K-pixel count m3/4 at 1/60 s, ISO 160, f/5.6, no ND.
The exposure is just to the right and is about to clip the highlight. The two have the same shutter angle, exposure, and DOF. What about dynamic range and tonal quality?

The A7II is 999 usd ....

@LuxShots
@Big Sonyfan

Nobody here claimed Sony shoots 6k. But nice straw man you are building up here. Why not try to argue with what was actually said?

@LuxShots
Another straw man

"If one more Sony fan boy claims their cams do 6K my head is going to explode! "

Nobody here did. If you want to argue with us, do so by responding to our comments. If you want to complain about the labeling of a cinema camera, do so in another thread. That is seriously OT here

@Lux shot
With a smiley face because the A7S III doesn't exist

Then stop saying no one brought it up! Sarcasm or not...

Thanks for the update! @Richard Butler

Richard

S1H is one of the more significant releases.

Make the right choices. Give it more priority.

IMO it’s a mistake to string it out so long - it just reinforces the notion that DPR is absolutely NOT the place for hybrid shooters. Long term I don’t think that’s going to help the site.

@Daft Punk Just the other day, Richard said it would be coming up any day now, so the wait is almost over!

"Panasonic is rumored to be working towards time of flight focusing. That would trump phase detect. It can even be implemented via an add-on."

I've read about this too, but no details have been given, so who knows ? ...It would be nice if it comes true, but I'm not holding my breath until this new AF system is tested.

In the meantime I'm ok with the slower performance of DFD, as I mostly use manual focusing, and occasionally I use the LCD "one touch" AF as a focus-check when I don't have a monitor on my cameras.

Does the cooling fan even turn on during stills in Auto1/2? I wouldn't know.

The entire camera market is tanking.....not just DSLRs.

I dunno.. I took my Fuji X-H1 into the local Best Buy. I bought the HDMI cable for it and while there, the salesman was also curious so we plugged it into a 32" monitor and put it into 4K video mode. While monitoring the screen, I literally moved the camera, shook it around, like an inch up and down and side to side. The video stayed perfectly still on the screen! I don't know if their IBIS works in tandem with the 18-55 lens's OIS or not (both were on), but however their stabilization works, it's pretty amazing.

The S1H will offer 6KRAW too https://www.dpreview.com/news/9129800662/atomos-and-panasonic-to-co-develop-raw-video-for-the-panasonic-s1h

I know, but not internal. If ProRes RAW like Nikon, then not compatiable with Resolve, so useless to me. It won't be 6K, just 4K RAW. Assuming Atomos gets its act together. Nikon RAW has been promised for months and now its been announced its a paid upgrade where you have to send your camera in. Nothing has been said as to how the S1H will get its RAW output. Remains to be seen if you get 60p 4K RAW in the way the Pocket 4K provides. I am not convinced. Plus you have to get the Atomos, which is an added expense of top of an already expensive camera, which requires new lenses. I buy the Pocket 6K, I get internal 6K RAW for considerably less investment. Sure its not fullframe, though an adaptor can improve things there. It doesn't have IBIS or any usable AF, but as a setup it would work well with my Pocket 4K. The S1H is good, but not good enough for that price. Internal RAW, internal ND filters, USB recording and then you're talking.

"If ProRes RAW like Nikon, then not compatiable with Resolve, so useless to me."

Resolve will be updated to support this, just like I expect ProRes will be updated to support all the different flavors of 6K footage being produced now. When I first got my GH5 I had tons of problems trying to edit 4K 10-bit 4:2:2, but within 6 months most NLE pacakges were updated to support GH5 10-bit. ( I sent 2GB of sample clips to the programmers developing MAGIX Vegas Pro, who then used these to add GH5 compatibility to VP15 )

"It won't be 6K, just 4K RAW."

That remains to be seen. I'm expecting lots of tech updates will be happening this year to support 6K.

"Nikon RAW has been promised for months and now its been announced its a paid upgrade where you have to send your camera in."

I think the problem was that the Nikon Z6 camera could not produce the RAW signal that ATOMOS needed without a hardware update, and I bet both companies wasted a lot of time trying to figure out a way to do it without a hardware change, which turned out to be impossible.

"I buy the Pocket 6K, I get internal 6K RAW for considerably less investment."

- Not Full Frame
- No 5.76 million dot EVF
- LCD display does not tilt or swing out 180 degrees
- Not Varicam color
- Not 14+ stops of dynamic range
- Not weatherproof
- Can't shoot 6K for two hours on ONE camera battery,
or 4 hours with the grip
- Can't record 5 hours of 6K footage on two memory cards inside the camera
- Can't stabilize handheld footage by itself
- Can't mount any lens because of it's Canon EF mount
( Nikon lenses do work )

"IBIS On the GH5 is great but has it's quirks especially with wide angles lenses. "

I've only seen visual warping with my PL 8-18mm lens, haven't really seen anything with my 12-35mm so far. If ultra wide angle is key to your shot, then some other form of stabilization has to be used.

"Sometimes it needs post stabilisation to fix some shots. In fact I see examples of these quirks in the video links you post,"

I'm mainly seeing it with their older work. Panasonic has had several firmware upgrades to the GH5 and IBIS has gotten better over time. I also find you can improve IBIS with a wide grip. I sometimes use a HaloRig, (halorig.com) which is a lightweight plastic "D" shaped ring that allows me to use a wider grip when I'm shooting handheld and this makes IBIS a little more stable.

A lot of people like White in Revery's color, so much so that they started selling their custom GH5 wedding LUTs. I like the look, but I don't know if I would use it on any of my projects.

I am not so bothered about fullframe. And if I was, there is an adapter that will give the same field of view.
I never use an EVF
Not Varicam colour... Blackmagic colour. I prefer it.

I'm not denying that that the S1H has many advantages over the Pocket 6K, some of which you list. But it is also considerably more expensive. A GH6 could potentially offer much of the advantages you list, but will I wager be cheaper and more compatiabke with my lenses.
Fullframe still has its limits. 6K on the S1H is 24p only and not 16.9 ratio rather 3.2. Rolling shutter is an issue.
Having RAW internal on the Pocket 6K is a bonus the S1H does not have. 6K for 2 hours is not a bonus if in H265 codec which is a pain to edit. And 2 memory cards is no substitute to my 1tb USB drive I've hooked upto my Pocket 4K, that can be used for 3 weddings. Or plugged in to a laptop and edited without transferring files across.
The S1H is great, but not perfect and not the camera I need.

IBIS has improved but can still have quirks with non IS lenses. My 12mm can show some quirks. It improves from 15mm onwards. But walking with it, can have the odd bad effect. It's better if you're standing still. No substitute for a gimbal. You notice it more when watching on a larger 4K screen. On smaller screens it can be less visible.
I did look at White in Reverys LUTs, but they didn't do anything for me. We all have preferred looks and theres isn't mine. I got mine from someone where I did like the sort of colour they could do with their LUT.

EVF's are a godsend when shooting in bright sunlight.

Varicam color is often the alternative choice to ARRI color, and each one can easily emulate the other. Their LOG curves are almost identical.

Right now the S1H is going to be $1,500 US more expensive, which is a pretty small amount to pay once you factor in the cost of lenses. ( L-mount lenses are state of the art, but also very expensive right now )

I plan on buying both the S1H and the GH6 when it arrives. Most of my work is shot with GH5 cameras, so I expect to upgrade to GH6 when it's available. The cost of L-mount lenses is a big deal, but you should expect this if you want to shoot FF with state-of-the-art lenses. Cine lenses are far far more expensive.

S1H rolling shutter can be an issue, but thankfully you can always switch to shooting Super35 with almost identical image quality and with MFT rolling shutter performance. So not really a problem provided you are good with shooting Super35 when you need to.

To each their own. We can all excuse the limitations of 1 system as our mileage may vary... Seeing the S1H footage so far hasn't impressed me with much cinematic quality given its pedigree. I prefer BM colour tbh.
The S1H has codecs I dislike editing, no internal RAW, limited 6K, cropped 60p and rolling shutter. Cropping to S35 recording having paid for fullframe feels counter productive.
The Pocket 6K lacks many things the S1H has but also benefits from a better application of 6K, internal RAW, a larger screen. Does the S1H have punch in focus whilst recording. Pocket 6K does and that's a big bonus.
I may well get the GH6 and hope it offers a better codec internal than H264 and H265. It's a big no no for me if I'm to pay 4000 for a camera, I want ProRes codec. Or RAW I can run in Resolve. I'd expect internal ND. With their L lenses very expensive, it's a massive investment to upgrade to the S1H and I'd expect better to do so. And I imagine in a few years, I'd get it.

So far all of the shooters who have spent any time with the S1H say it's like a mini Varicam camera, with real 14+ stops of dynamic range and fantastic color.

I shoot with GH5 cameras that produce "ok" color out of the camera, but this can be tweaked to produce amazing color if you know what your are doing. I've seen the same with most other cameras, even ones shooting 8-bit footage. Everything depends on the person using the gear, not the gear itself.

An ALEXA 65 is not going to turn a terrible cinematographer into a cine maestro, they will be just as terrible using any piece of gear.

The feature I'm looking for with the GH6 is better dynamic range with the full V-Log profile. The GH5s has almost 14 stops of dynamic range, but it gets kneecapped by the crappy V-Log L profile. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with my GH5 cameras. ( I shot a 3 day medical conference last December using only GH5 cameras, and it's the best live event footage I've ever produced )

I'm not denying the S1H isn't a great camera, but it's not the perfect solution to every video need or a perfect camera full stop. Neither is the Pocket 6K. So really it's down to preferences we have. I've worked with Panasonic for nearly 10 years and only this year started with the Pocket 4K. I've found the footage to be more to my liking, the interface better, the larger screen and punch in focus a joy to use and BRAW is heavenly to edit compared to H264 from my GH5.

I think the P4K and P6K are great for Indie narrative projects and any time you need to shoot RAW footage. For me this would only be used when I need to produce great color with very bad mixed lighting.

Otherwise I prefer the workflow of IPB compressed footage, and being able to shoot for hours and not worry about batteries or memory storage. ( I don't think I've ever shot in the rain, but maybe some day I will )

Everything I shoot gets color-corrected and audio corrected and then spit out as Cineform masters which are then given to my editor, so shooting h.264 or h.265 has never been an issue for me.

With h.264 / h.265 recording I appreciate the ability to shoot for hours and hours, especially at live events. ( for the 3 day medical conference I shot last December I shot all day without having to change my memory cards until the end of the day )

I've been shooting a Wedding today on my Pocket 4K, with BRAW as my recording format. I've still got 830 mins left on the 1TB and 108 mins left on the cFast card.

I could film 3 Weddings without needing to download from the 1TB and only would need to change the cfast card every day.

So where is the advantage of H264 and H265. I can edit my material without having to transcode. I don't have an editor to pass my stuff to, so I value the codec I shoot with. Not to mention the opportunity to tweak white balance and ISO in post.

"So where is the advantage of H264 and H265. I can edit my material without having to transcode."

I can edit h.264 and h.265 without transcoding too, but I work with editors so that I can keep shooting while my footage is being finished.

I also find that I've got a better eye for color correction that most editors I work with, and I'm also pretty good with audio processing which most editors have no skill at all. So prefer to do the color correction and audio correction myself, and then pass on my Cineform masters for editing.

Color correction is very fast ( less than one minute per scene ), and audio processing is also pretty fast. I can process 4 hours of audio in 15 minutes or less. I plan on building an encoding server once the AMD Zen 2 Threadripper CPUs are out, which should happen before the end of the year. This should give me a 10x boost in encoding speed compared to Intel CPUs.

That's all very fascinating but has b***** all to do with my choice of the Pocket 4K. Are you seriously going to argue that H264 is a better codec than BRAW. Good luck.. You don't see me arguing that AF is useless or a swivel screen not helpful. These are things the Pocket 4K lack. Internal RAW is what the S1H lacks and whatever external RAW on offer, will not carry the flexibility seen in the Pocket 4K and 6K.
I'm very glad you've got a system to handle H264. It doesn't make it a better codec. The fact I can edit BRAW, a superior codec on an inferior CPU speaks volumes to its capabilities. The Pocket integration with Resolve is a bonus the S1H does not have. Does this camera have dedicated software that comes free with the camera that brings out the best in it. No. You'll never convince me H264 is a better codec than BRAW, so please don't waste your time trying...

Are the editing problems you refer to limited to 4k? I use linux, edit HD H264 hour long videos with kdenlive (it's a bit unstable) and shotcut (better, UI is peculiar though) and I have no problems, BUT, I use mkv as container, so my workflow is: use the command line to join mts segments and ffmpeg to remux into mkv (all in one passage, same speed as file copying), then edit the mkv with shotcut, export to mp4.
Now that I reread it sounds complicated, still better than discovering broken transitions after export like it used to happen to me with mp4.
I also edited 4k but too briefly to notice if there were problems. Always from panny cams.

I don't have editing problems. That's the problem with internet forums. A few words gets amplified out of proportion. I'm editing 4K videos, often from 5 cameras, 4 of them Panasonic. I edit the material fine. However it is a much better experience editing BRAW. A much much better experience. That is all.

"Are you seriously going to argue that H264 is a better codec than BRAW."

I am going to argue that 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 covers about 99 percent of what I shoot, and for most shooters it's probably the same. Unless you are producing fully funded broadcast TV or feature films on a regular basis, RAW doesn't add anything that isn't already covered by high quality IPB CODECs.

Broadcast TV shows like "Top Gear" and "The Grand Tour" are already using Panasonic GH5s cameras to shoot all of the car interior and exterior footage that is mixed in with their ARRI ALEXA interview footage, and nobody says boo because it all looks great.

I expect the Panasonic S1H will be certified by the EBU for 4K broadcast TV production ( just like the Panasonic GH5s was for HD broadcast ) and it will be added to the NetFlix 4K certified camera list, just like the Panasonic EVA1 was.

I haven't seen anything of substance that was shot with the P4K / P6K that could not have been shot by the Panasonic S1H camera.

I am aware of the Top Gear connection. Met the guy who loans the cameras out. So what. I still use H264 on my GH5 and GH5s to great effect. However no one argues that H264 is a better codec than ProRes or RAW. Sure we all shoot on H264 as it is the codec of choice on the GH5, but other than small file sizes, it has little advantages and much of its use Professionally in TV productions will be transcoded I dare say to ProRes before editing.
With RAW slowly coming to smaller cameras, you may find the industry changes. If the GH6 shoots ProRes, do you think The Grand Tour will stick with H264. No.

I agree though that much of what you see shot with the P4K can be shot with the S1H. But as to the merits of quality of each of them, only time will tell, as so little footage of the S1H exists out there for a proper comparison.

And if RAW doesn't add anything, why did you post about Atomos offering RAW recording as a bonus to the camera. A lot of love for a camera you don't own.

I see from other posts, you are praising Panasonic over other brands for being the first with internal 10 bit recording, and pointing out other brands are way behind on Panasonic for still offering the same codec as the GH4. So you seem to be on the side of shouting out the benefits of better codecs, when it supports your camera of choice that is. ;)
And trust me, I've heard many argue that 10 bit offers little value in final image quality over 8 bit recording when they're shooting Canon or Sony. Apparently unless you're shooting high end TV, you don't need 10 bit 4:2:2.... At least according to the gospel of Canon and Sony users, who oddly enough don't have a choice in the matter anyway. ;))))

"However no one argues that H264 is a better codec than ProRes or RAW."

But if high quality h.264 and h.265 CODECs cover 99 percent of the work you need to produce, then they are more than good enough.

As I stated previously the only time where RAW footage is useful for me is when I have to shoot under mixed lighting and I want to produce good looking skin-tones, so I'm going to mask off sections of my image and mix different color-balances together to try to get a "normal" looking shot out of it. This is a pretty rare event for me, so RAW is not high on my list, and now it looks like we will have external RAW from the S1H camera too, so all bases can be covered with the S1H.

"So you seem to be on the side of shouting out the benefits of better codecs"

I still shoot with Sony ENG cameras and was very tempted to buy the Canon C200.

What are the better CODECs ?

The h.264 and h.265 CODECs are industry standards that cover image acquisition all the way up to 8K 16-bit 4:4:4 120 fps. What am I missing out on ?

I agree that Cineform, DNxHD, and ProRes are better CODECs for editing because of their low compression compared to h.264 or h.265, and as I've stated earlier I do use the Cineform CODEC for editing. ( I've been using it for almost 10 years now )

But I still don't know what you mean by "better CODECs" ???

External RAW via HDMI... hmmm, how many will make the effort.. it won't be 6K as so far only a 4K recorder will get the ability to record it. And the S1H only does 6K in 3.2 ratio at 24p.. Pocket 6K does better... :)

And alas the S1H, despite being a dedicated Video tool, does not have punch in focus during recording. A feature I love on the Pocket 4K and that had a bigger screen to work with. It's a feature once you get use to it, you quickly miss on other cameras.

Cropped 60p at 4K, or cropped 4K if you need to pan fast. Very limited 6K. You're paying money for fullframe you can't always use and 6K you'd barely use. Especially with a low bitrate.

It's a great camera and without doubt, a game changer for mirror less, a benchmark for other cameras and no doubt it would sit very well in my arsenal of gear. But... it's not quite there for me yet. Sorry if this upsets you and your love for a camera you don't even own. :))))

Better codec = BRAW :)))))

"Better codec = BRAW"

You do know that CODEC stands for COmpression + DECompression.

Does BRAW use compression / decompression ?

haha they never made a titanium or SH1 T version, so its ok :))
very deep thinking

Yes, the X-T3 shoots h.265 4K 10-bit 4:2:0, but most people working with the footage don't see a lot of difference compared to 4:2:2. I haven't spent any time working with X-T3 footage, so I can't comment if there is a real difference or not. ( usually these things show up when pushing the image around when color correcting or grading )

Well in 4k you're not going to see much because you have a color resolution of about 1080. it only matters with HD footage. The biggest spots where you would see your chroma sampling start falling apart is where there's text. Other than that, it's not much of a difference at 4K. If we start getting into 4444 sampling then that's where the real fun begins.

Lol Sont fanboys getting anxious since for the longest time they kept harping on their superior brand. No Sony alpha body will come close to this. If they stick with their current philosophy of small bodies then the most they can do is match the S1.

The a7IV and a9 already beat the S1/S1R left and right when it comes to stills.
The S1H is unmatched and will remain so probably forever.

photomedium ... a7IV what's that?

'R'

Dpreviews table doesn't show H.265 codec for C4k in FF. And 1080p only for >100fps.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-s1h-review-in-progress/5

That's not a huge thing but I would be interested why they do such a thing?

Lol unlikely. S1H has FS level specs. Unless Sony is prepared to redesign their Alpha philosophy the the a7siii will just be an a7sii with A6400 autofocus. Maybe offer 10 bit external but I doubt it will be 6k or even 60p. Their bodies are too small and risk overheating.

It could be done but the exterior would need fins to dissipate the heat.

xd...

entoman, Panasonic always was the leader in video, not they have far better FF mirror less camera then any other manufacturers, and its a result of long experience in this business...

if you have good content (some personality) people will watch regardless. I watch scotty a mechanic. He is like a grandpa, but he knows his stuffs and has funny meme. If you just talk about opinions and what ever off the top of your head, yeah that won't fly for the younger gen.

kobakokh - Yes I appreciate that, but I need a camera that also offers high resolution for stills work, and 24MP isn't enough. For me, 36-40MP (with current state of technology) represents the sweet spot. While Canon don't provide the ultimate in performance (in either stills or video), they provide what I *need*. For C-AF stills, the Panasonic DFD just doesn't cut the mustard.

Switching systems is something I'd prefer not to do, but I want to take advantage of improvements in specifications and performance, and if Canon don't come up with the goods within the next 3-4 months, I'm likely to do so. In which case for me Nikon would be the most likely contender.

@entoman. It also supports high resolution mode like the S1, so you can get 96mp raw stills from the s1h