Panasonic Lumix DC-S5 review

I've never used Fuji or Nikon menus, but I can definitely state Pana's and Canon's menus & touch UI are far more pleasant and intuitive than Sony's or Olympus', without sacrificing much in terms of customization.

Wasn't Sony recently getting praise for those scrolling help messages that explain features? Pana has had that forever, and I find the organization more logical tbh. Nobody is getting away without multiple pages of menus unless they just deprecate features by the bucket load.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

generationfourth

Yes I design user interfaces for a living and I need to get around writing a case study. You 'touched' upon one of the points- Panasonic has full touch, including the menus which makes direct input easier (no need to learn which improperly labeled hard button does what) and they always have a back button right there on screen. Also, as a result the menu items are separated in chunks with marked pages on the right side so recall is easier. The infinitely scrolling non touch menu lists in other cameras are a nightmare to use and recall where certain features are.
Also, Panasonic did right with their information architecture which has stayed the same since the beginning and has scaled with sub menus in later models. The top level navigation is always visible, and sub menus logical. On top of that they have the My Menu where you can add those menu items you need quicker access to. They struck a good balance between customizability vs ease of use, and were innovative with implementing touch

Mar 11, 2021permalink

The little histogram you can resize and move around on Pana bodies is just great, there's a bunch of nice UI touches (no pun intended) like that all over their UI, for which they get little credit IMO. Oly's SCP *still* isn't customizable, sigh... At least Sony has a My Menu equivalent.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

generationfourth

Yeah I didn't want to bore everyone and I hit the character limit, but all these little touches may not seem like much but they really add up. There are tangible/qualitative feature that rarely get mentioned in reviews because the quantitative things are easier to drop into a chart. Call me crazy but UI, customizability, ergonomics and ease of use are much more important to me than sensor size or FPS when it comes to choosing a camera...

Mar 11, 2021permalink

BaldEgo

Another feature that is often overlooked on the S series cameras is Panasonic’s manual focus aids, especially if you use the “pinpoint” AF setting. I haven’t found another system that works better for my MF needs. With the latest improvements in AF and the new lenses coming from Sigma and Panasonic, I am finally committing entirely to the L-mount system and selling off my Canon R and Nikon Z gear. The ergonomics, IBIS Implementation, menu system, SOOC colours and, now. The growing lens selection have convinced me that I’m making the right choice for my needs.

Mar 14, 2021permalink

piccolbo

"subject tracking is very good for a contrast-detect-based camera". Best of the worst award. Wonder what other brand gets to be compared only against itself.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

You're right. But if anything that statement is unfair to panasonic. I'm pretty sure this compares favorably to several other brand's hybrid focusing systems.

Hear hear to Dpreview removing this non-informational description. No one even knows what to expect from contrast-based tracking systems except failure?

Mar 11, 2021permalink

BrentSchumer

If there were more lenses on L mount and the S5 had PDAF, it would be the camera to beat! Looking forward to the next revision.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

darganslayer

Owning the S1, I wish it was a similar form factor as the S5. Once you have a lens, cage, etc its a beefy setup. Hoping the firmware updates in 2021 for the S1 will keep it ahead.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Human nature to want to be better than your neighbor and compete favorably in a hierarchy. But the value assessment of some other camera you don't own does not change the value of your camera to you. It may be annoying that the S5 seems just as capable a camera in a smaller form factor, but that annoyance is just your competitiveness misfiring, a false positive. Worrying about it does you no good.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

BaldEgo

The one thing I wouldn’t change on the S1/S1R is the fabulous triaxial LCD screen, especially if you flip a lot from landscape to portrait mode like I do. I actually wish the S5 had the same screen but then I’m more of a stills shooter than a video shooter.

Mar 14, 2021permalink

Mentt

I was impressed how s5(2.1) AF improved over s1(tested 6 months after lunch) and G9. For street, event, family, pet photography I have the same hit rate as with Sony A7c

Mar 11, 2021permalink

GinoSVK

Sensor able to capture a nice amount of details, excellent high ISO performance, especially great JPEG processing there, and as noticed, false colors due to the moiré effect is strongly pronounced.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Rolandigital

"Poorly placed AF-On button (sits right under thumb.."
No. It's in perfect position. It's there where it should be given it's direct purpose.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Adam007

I don't have one (I did have an S1R for a while and I liked the controls). On my camera, my thumb easily rests in between the AF button and another specialized button. Looking at the S5, I wonder if there is enough room to do that. I have to assume that DPR's editors, who handle dozens of cameras every year, probably aren't making this up, even if YMMV.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Rolandigital

Well yes, could be unconvenient for some while carrying camera around. But it has to be right there under the thumb, when you work - just to tip a thumb to press it. I think it's perfect.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

RadPhoto

I susspect they woudn't be that picky if it was a Sony camera.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Adam007

Roland, everyone has a different intuition about what's "perfect." I'm not talking about walking around with the camera, I'm talking about framing up a shot without having to consciously remove/lift my finger from the shutter button prior to wanting to adjust the shutter.

I'm glad you like it. I'm sure I could get used to it. But I don't have any difficulty seeing what DPR is complaining about.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

" I susspect they woudn't be that picky if it was a Sony camera. " -RadPhoto

Based on what? They pick on Sony ergonomics plenty, it's probably the biggest overall con they've always held against the APS-C bodies and even the compacts, and I actually see several more complaints along these lines in the A7 III's review's con list than on the S5's. It's pretty easy to instantly jump to the conclusion that DPR is biased, it's also pretty lazy IMO.

Unfortunately that kinda meme group think is good for a few quick likes and for someone else to parrot it 5 min later.

Mar 11, 2021*permalink

For the record, these are all from the A7 III review's con list by DPR writers:

-Lacks DSLR feeling of 'immediacy' for controls and menus
(something they praise the S5 for btw)
-AF point can be difficult to discern
-Lackluster touchscreen experience
-Some buttons are too small and could use more tactile feedback

From the A7C review:

-All three dials controlled with your thumb

No 'con' for button placement or feel on the Z6 or Z6 II reviews, should we just assume they're in Nikon's pocket? /smh

Mar 11, 2021*permalink

Rolandigital

Adam007, yes, I know and understand - it is highly subjective.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

thomas2279f

A good review again dpreview and a good camera none the less coupled with ever improving L mount optics.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

Jeff Keller

Mar 11, 2021permalink

This camera was released in September. It's February. I know it's a busy time of year...but what's going on here?

Feb 2, 2021permalink

BzonKhou

I was wondering the same...

Feb 25, 2021permalink

Interested in seeing the final review DPReview staff - although I can guess more or less what it'll say.
This is a remarkable camera. 10bit internal, 4k 60, hi-res mode, IBIS, potential raw output over HDMI...
Almost nothing touches it for the price. The DFD autofocus will be the achilles heel - for the AVERAGE user. For filmmakers, this is irrelevant. DFD avoids the banding that has been shown to crop up from the pdaf sensors on the a7siii, and you won't be using native glass to film a doc or film, you'll be using a follow focus on EF or PL or some other cine lens. Amazing films have been made on far worse equipment than this.
The issue is the AVERAGE user, and I'm not saying that to be elitist. Panasonic is definitely shooting for the higher end, but that could bite them in rear. The average user wants smooth AF, and even worse, they need cheaper lenses. The Panny ff lenses are so damn expensive, and as pointed out above, will filmmakers even buy them?

Jan 18, 2021permalink

Handsome90

I agree with most of your points. However I would say filmmakers didn’t use AF because it simply sucked. The same used to be true for AF for photography during the infancy of AF.

You also wrote, “DFD avoids the banding that has been shown to crop up from the pdaf sensors on the a7siii”

Do you have a source for this? I haven’t come across any PDAF banding on A7S IIIso far yet.

Jan 18, 2021*permalink

@Handsome90 anecdotal so far
https://www.reddit.com/r/A7siii/comments/j3evqq/banding_and_compression_artifacts_in_h265_on/

I have seen a few videos on youtube where, in low light, the camera has pretty strong banding - the theory was from PDAF.

Personally, I think the A7Siii is a remarkable camera and an instant classic, albeit expensive. For total image quality though, I think it falls a bit behind the S1H. As for the usefulness of AF - it's certainly nice to have for the sort of work I do, but for real film making, you're likely not even going to be using lenses with AF in them. You could absolutely rig the S5 up completely to film a literal movie on it, but I doubt at that point you'd be using some 24 to 70 with AF in it.

Jan 20, 2021permalink

DFD is actually totally fine and better than PDAF for 80% of photographers: landscape, portrait, product, macro and astro are all genres of photography that will benefit from DFD.

Only wildlife, action and sports photographers will be disappointed with DFD, and are better served with PDAF.

Jan 24, 2021permalink

@Funny Valentine in case you may have missed it, we aren't talking about AF for photographers. I'm sure it's just fine for them. The S5 is certainly a capable stills camera, but it's most remarkable for video.

Jan 25, 2021permalink

Ed Ingold

For high quality 4Kp60, the fact that the A7Siii takes CFx cards and the Panasonic does not may be a deal changer, since it allows 4,2,2 10-bit recording internally and externally (600 Mb/s).

Mar 11, 2021permalink

darganslayer

I think the Sigma L mount lenses will be game changer for the Lumix S series. I have the 14-24mm 2.8 and the 24-70 2.8 and they're both fantastic for both video and stills. Looking forward to a DG DN 70-200 and more fast primes.

Mar 11, 2021permalink

stevevelvia50

Topaz Gigapixel AI, especially the newest implementation, makes buying a high resolution camera less and less relevant! And it’s just getting better exponentially.
https://youtu.be/TyNdi8y619o

Jan 17, 2021*permalink

Faketography.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

stevevelvia50

Haha, another in denial!

Jan 18, 2021*permalink

Hey, you should checkout dfreview.

Seriously now; faketography can only get better with more pixels to extrapolate AI-driven images from.

Jan 18, 2021permalink

MyReality

Along with great noise reduction produced jpegs, hello AUTO ISO 10,000 limit.
I am glad I drive a fake auto transmission car.

Mar 12, 2021permalink

kriztian

The Pentax K1 is blowing them all out of the water. ( with the exception of pixelshift versus panasonic )

Jan 16, 2021permalink

Murat Sahan

Yes most cameras are made to be used on land so you can keep your Pentax in the water....

Jan 18, 2021permalink

BrexitDefCom3

I do not know what has happened to the originals ontherir way here, but om my iMac
the river shots have some strange patterns that are not , obviously part of the scene, as though the jpeg encoding has somehow failed, but besides that,the high res rivershot is riddled with mosquito noise lines everywhere, lacks resolution and has a mass of CA as you move into the background. Every vertical post and lampost is crosshatched with these lines (its where they are most easily visible), and the entire image is soft, due to it being obviously a dud lens. Thankyou, you have just saved us a small fortune!

Jan 16, 2021permalink

Happened to me too.
Then I remembered to clean my eyeglasses.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

BrexitDefCom3

What happened to you too?

Jan 19, 2021permalink

The Panasonic and the Leica highres algorithms are very close. But if you go into details you will see that the Leica implementation on the SL2 is even a tiny bit better. Or maybe it is because of the Apo Summicrons (that can be used on Lumix as well).
So in my eyes the Leica algorithm is the one to be beaten. (Closely followed by the one from Pana).
Yes, Pana was first (Licensed to Leica) and has probably invented it. But Leica seem to have made small but noticeable modifications. (Tiny improvements compared to S1R).

Compared to that the Sony implementation is really poor and needs additional work and time on a computer. Very user-unfriendly, typically Sony for me, sorry. ;-)

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

Unless the camera does the work for you in compositing the image, then this feature is useless for the vast majority of users. And unless the system is intelligent enough to compensate for a very small amount of motion, including hand holding, then the feature is useless to the vast majority of people.

That's the key to the Panasonic/Leica implementation. It's practical. Someone can use it without conditions being absolutely perfect and without requiring going to your PC and using clunky software to create the final product. And you can check your work right after taking the image.

Think smartphones. People are used to the phone doing this sort of stuff instantaneously in the phone without even thinking about it and enjoying the final product. That's what the camera companies need to aim for.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

Chris DC

I agree that unless and until these high res modes are more convenient they will little be used. Clearly, in the future all cameras will adopt these computationally intensive methods and we will all benefit.

On my Olympus EM1x, I appreciate the "in-camera" processing and the ability to do this hand-held (albeit at slightly lower resolution). In the Oly, the key is more processing power and that comes at a price. Taking a high res shot with the Oly leads to a several second processing stall period before the result is delivered. There's a lot going on behind the scenes.

Interestingly, I have done a few experiments comparing the in-camera processed image to those I do on the computer later. The in-camera versions are just as good.

Indeed, for the in-camera focus stacking mode I have begun simply deleting all the individual focus shots and only saving the finished result.

The take away is that as these features deploy across more brands and models we will all benefit.

CDC

Jan 17, 2021permalink

Mister J

Had the S5 on test for two weeks, and thoroughly enjoyed the ergonomics and results.
The hi-res mode is astonishing, and particularly useful in the studio for archiving artwork and the like. But yes, you need a really solid tripod.
On the shortlist for my next purchase later this year.

Jan 15, 2021*permalink

99tollap

Please help, I don't understand the ISO thing. So I should never go beyond ISO 800 with this camera as long as I'm processing RAW images?!

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Vincent DP

If you need to preserve highlights, shoot RAW at ISO100 if the exposure requires up to ISO800, and shoot at ISO800 if the exposure requires higher ISO. Then brighten the RAW in post processing.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Richard Butler

^ This is a good explanation.

Beyond ISO 800 there's no appreciable noise benefit to applying more amplification, just the loss of highlights that amplification pushes into clipping. So you can keep the camera at ISO 800 and use the exposure settings of a higher ISO, and you'll preserve an extra stop of highlights for every stop of ISO you'd have otherwise used.

Below ISO 800 there's a more overt trade-off: using ISO 100 and a two-stop exposure reduction will be slightly noisier than just shooting at ISO 400, but you gain two stops of highlights in return.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

If you’re willing or need (read- dynamic range) to futz around with raw, then that is correct.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

Impressive camera.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

The Panasonic pixel shift mode is by far and away the best implementation of this feature on any brand. To my knowledge it is the only one that offers 2 distinct advantages:

1) It composites the image in-camera. No need to fuss with third party software in a desktop computer. And doing so allows you to check your work immediately thereafter in camera, so you enjoy the advantages of digital: namely, you can see if it's what you want and if not then readjust and reshoot.

2) It compensates for a small amount of motion, either hand motion or motion in the subject. So this means that this feature can be used hand held out in the field, shooting subjects with a bit of motion. With other brands, it only works if the subject is totally still and the camera mounted on a tripod.

Panasonic has this feature nailed, and it will be interesting to see how they might expand on it and make it even better in the future.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Panasonic is the second best. Olympus does it better and is more complete. It allows for 80, 50 and 25 MP in camera jpeg and 80 MP RAW. And it can do real handheld high res shots up to 50MP.

In the Olympus handheld high res 16 images are stacked together, twice as much as the other brands. It cancels more noise.

The Panasonic can't be used handheld, it will simply stack less and you get less resolution.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Mescalamba

Yea but Olympus is m4/3.

Panasonic is definitely best in FF territory.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

IIRC, the Olympus takes 16 images faster than the Panny can take 8 also.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Interesting about the Olympus. But yes, then it comes down to whether one prefers micro 4/3 or FF. As mentioned, the Panny is definitely the best among FF for this feature.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Elisam

Yes best in full frame, where the only competitor is Sony. Still Olympus is better overall. While it might make more sense to only compare FF, the usability of the Olympus system means it is more flexible giving fairly easily FF type IQ while also offering the benefits of m43s. The higher speed of the smaller sensor will hve an impact here.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Yes both Olympus and Panasonic are doing a great job. All cameras with IBIS should have at least a tripod high res function. Really a bummer Canon doesn't offer it on the R5/R6. A simple firmware upgrade could make it possible.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

pannumon

In 8 images high res mode Panasonic wins Olympus almost every comparison (G9 vs E-M1 II). Panasonic images are simply sharper and there is less noise, although Olympus images tolerate quite a bit of sharpening.

However, the high res mode in E-M1X and E-M1 III is probably better than Panasonic (G9) in terms of image quality. And of course hand held high res mode itself is a clear benefit

Jan 16, 2021permalink

@Funny Valentine wrote: "The Panasonic can't be used handheld, it will simply stack less and you get less resolution."

Wrong. The Panny high resolution mode can be used handheld and still take 8 images. I know...I've used it.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

stevevelvia50

Olympus EM1X and the EM1 III are the only two cameras able to do hand held high res, with sharp printable images! Panasonic cameras require a tripod period! DPReview staff will confirm that! The motion detection is very impressive in the new Panasonic tripod high res though. Olympus can follow up with a firmware update. I just use Gigapixel AI, better again!

Jan 17, 2021*permalink

I've used the S1R handheld with the high resolution mode and it works very well. No one can tell me differently since I've seen the results myself.

Obviously I still tried to hold the camera very steady, but the high res pixel shift mode works using it hand held.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

MyReality

@stevevelvia50 - " I just use Gigapixel AI, better again!" Simplest solution:
No tripod, no camera held errors and choice of sizes.
Save a lot of money and by an Olympus E-M10 IV or E-5 Mark III.

Mar 12, 2021*permalink

silentstorm

Interestingly the Fuji GFX 100 has much more defined and refined details.

Looks like native high MP beats pixel shift.

The next high rez camera is the Sony 7r.4 and then Hassy X1D.

Looks really good, all of them!

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Tecra8000

I mean, the GFX 100 is a 100MP camera, so you got an extra 20MP to work with. But aside of that, yea, a native xMP camera is gonna be better than pixel shift to that xMP, but not by much, and you won't have to be working with the large files, slow bursts and high noise on high ISO. Pixel shift is the way to go if you occasionally need high resolution and don't have 1000+ dollars to spend on a second camera

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Elisam

S1R does 187MP with pixel shift.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Yes, and the SL2 from Leica as well. And both beat the 100 MP cameras. But just/mainly for archiving (as in real live it is hard to find the extreme stability that is needed, some wind can already be disturbing).

But for archiving they are really bargains that you can easily compare with 100 MP cameras or even with the Hasselblad (H6D-400c with 400 MP) that uses a similar algorithm.

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

Moses

The pixel shift resolution is amazing. I wonder if it will work with landscape given light breezes.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

It depends on how windy it is or how much motion is in your subject. It works very well with flowing water for example.
Actually several shifted pics and 1 normal picture are combined. Static parts are taken from the shifted pictures, parts in motion from the single “normal” picture. As these parts are in motion anyway it does not really hurt to have there less resolution.
In the web you can find many great examples e.g. with the Leica SL2. Search for SL2 and multi-shot. Or S1R and high-res.

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

That's how Olympus works too. It gives you a 20mp raw without motion comp as well as the HHR of 50 or 80mp.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

MrWalnuts

@Moses, I have an S1R and it works really well for motion. Not perfect but close. In daylight water looks similar to a long exposure which I actually like. Even stuff like moving tree branches look normal. One thing that's a bit of a challenge is there's a one second max exposure on the S1R. I think the S5 now has 5 seconds. But for me that 1 second limit means I need really fast lenses for night shooting. I've picked up several f/1.4 Sigma lenses and that solved the problem.

Feb 7, 2021permalink

Moses

Thanks.

Feb 7, 2021permalink

photoaddict

How does HiRes work exactly? I mean, I know that it takes a few shots... but does it do it instantously or does it "capture" at same a/s? Or does it change anything in between? And how fast would you capture the scene if you take a picture say at 1/500? Would it take a second to complete the whole operation? Would you detect some timing difference with HiRes at a click of shutter? I am just curious.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Richard Butler

It takes a series of eight images, one after the other, with the sensor fractionally re-positioned between each shot. It uses the chosen aperture and shutter speed and always uses electronic shutter. So a 1/500th shutter speed image would take 8 times as long as usual, plus processing time afterwards.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Tecra8000

Just like Richard Butler said, but I'd like to mention that Olympus can stack up to 16 images as far as I know, and you can also choose between 25, 50 and 80MP shots

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Jim Hully

Canon, what are you waiting for? Adding a HR option for the R5 & R6 would go some way to justify their higher prices.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

R5 and R6 have an AA filter. You can't do pixel shift high res shots with an AA filter.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Haris

Hmm, not really true. It has nothing to do with AA filter. Panasonic S1H has an AA filter and can do high-res shots in a same manner as S1 and S5.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

MarcoSartoriPhoto

Is there another reason, apart from not cannibilize the r serie, that Sony is not offering the High Res mode on the "normal" serie (a7III)?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

I don't think Sony offers in camera JPEG/RAW High Res mode on any camera. I realize the A7R can take a series of images and the user can export them and use software to create a high resolution image, but that is true with any camera.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

SomeguyPNW

@Ric 360 No way, you're wrong. The pixel shift option isn't available on most cameras (including my A7Rii) - I'm not saying that sony *couldn't* do it with the ibis mechanism but they didn't. The main difference is that it's all processed in camera on the S1/S5 (and this is no small deal considering the file size of each raw and the hassle of doing it yourself).

Jan 15, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

All you have to do is aim any camera, and shoot 8 or so stills quickly, then combine/stack them with Photoshop or other software for a "super resolution" image. You can also stick images, but sometimes you get artifacts. Google Petapixel and super resolution., They have a practical guide on how to do it.
So, yes, "pixel shift" works with any camera as long as you are will to export photos and edit with software.

Jan 15, 2021*permalink

photographytragic

@Ric360 But that's multishot. Are you saying that shifting the pixels doesn't of itself add further to that?
I must say that I would love to know how much it shifts!
Is it 1/4 of a pixel? Or is it quite imprecise?
Or is it bul..it, and in fact relies on camera shake?

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

fferreres

Yes, they don’t do it because they rely on their sensor dominance to sell cameras. And most other camera makers need to kneel and beg, and not do anything that would make Sony too unhappy. Canon is the only I know having their own sensor, and have had a hard time catching up, that almost cost them their #1. Nikon is also vulnerable. If you enter a market where one company leads in a very very very expensive process (like sensors), you kind of depend on ...a competitor. Same happens to retailers, forced to sell on Amazon and compete with AmazonBasics, usually a knock off product done in the absolute cheapest way cooling others design (usually) legally.

but this will get fixed as there are more and more small sensor brands, for mobile market. They will eventually eclipse Sony.

Jan 18, 2021permalink

zakaria

The features that were specific to Pentax, such as Hi Resolution and IS , this site used to consider negative. Today, when competitors came late with this technology that Pentax had preceded them with, we find this site considers it positive for these competitors.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Carey Rose

I'm struggling to think of a situation where we found high-res modes and image stabilization negative. We did find situations where the high-res modes weren't super effective, and we communicated those, but we do so for every model that has them.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Today? Panasonic has HR mode for three years now. I don't think anyone considered this feature as a negative.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

zakaria

At least Pentax has not had such an attractive title

"Top-notch high-res mode: Panasonic Lumix S5 review update".

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Maybe because the pentax hires mode was cumbersome to the point of not adding much for most people?

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Elisam

Minolta had IBIS before Pentax.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

turvyT

That's not the case, Carey. I still remember a dpr article on Pentax Hi res centering almost exlcusively on moving tree branches to conclude that Hi Res mode was very limited. The simple truth is that some advantages by Pentax, mainly Ibis (in apsc and FF) and Hi res (as well as astrotracer modes and weather resistance) has never cleanly recognized, not say appreciated by dpr, but when it's dealing with another brand, things are very different, god knows why. I know that dpr is now almost exclusively phocused on MLS, but that has been the simple aproach of DPR to Pentax. And I don't have any special interest at all in that brand, but as mere reader, it's not a nice thing to contemplate.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

zakaria

@ turvy T
Well said.
You took the words out of my mouth. That's exactly what I wanted to say.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

Uhm, the Pentax K1 with it's 36 MP Sony Sensor does feature also Hi-res Shots, and that IQ rivals Medium Format, according to Tests Years ago. There was no much buzz, or a word about back then. Same goes for the K-1 II, too.

3 Year old YT Video today here - Sony A7R III vs Nikon D850 vs Pentax K-1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOHzyPlk7Aw

Good Light.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

A fun stroll down memory lane. :)

Jan 14, 2021permalink

I think K1 II does not make a higher pixel file, it just gets rid of moire and increases details and colour fidelity. It still is 36MP.
I know that 36MP has probably better details than 45MP but still it is 36MP.
S5 gives 96MP.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

The S5 is 24 MP with PixelShift 96 MP. The K1 is 36 MP, with PixelShift, effectivly canceling out the Bayer CFA, 4 Shifts capture true Color, like Foveon, with effective 144 MP. With Pentax DCU, one can combine these Images. The S5 doesn't have an AstroTracer Feature, too. Nevermind. ;-)

The K3 II from 2015 also featured PixelShift Mode.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

So the K1 only takes 4 images? The S5 takes 8. It creates two 96MP images and uses them to cancel out most of the Bayer CFA.
I noticed too, that Panasonic handles movement in the scene better,

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Yeah - it was Pentax. No a cool kid can do it. Now it is interesting.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Marc, i don't think Pentax gives 144MP files. Yes resolution is higher but number of pixels is still the same.
I think Olympus was the first company to introduce high-res shot (after Hasselblad which normal people could not buy :) ).

Jan 15, 2021permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2055527036/pentax-k-1-s-pixel-shift-challenges-medium-format-dynamic-range

@Ric
Do your Home Work before posting, and think about it, thanks. :-)

Good Light.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

I ma not sure how a 36MP image challenges the 100MP images of the GFX100. Maybe DR is close but with about 1/3rd the pixels?

No matter, the Panasonic also has improved DR but has 96MP. It takes twice as many exposures, so that is to be expected.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

"I ma not sure how a 36MP image challenges the 100MP images" - in the same way a 1000HP supercar can challenge a 10 billion horsepower supercar - there is a point of diminishing returns.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

If 36MP is "enough", why are there so many 40, 60, and 100MP cameras? Why even bother with High Res mode?
Your analogy is closer to a Toyota Camry vs a Tesla S with Ludicrous mode. Toyota's are nice, btw.

Jan 15, 2021*permalink

I am not saying 36 is enough. I am saying at some point - at some MP level - any more MP starts to be not worth the lift. BTW - I want a Tesla with Ludicrous mode.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

More MP doesn't mean better IQ - instead, it does lead to smaller Pixelsize, hence - Pitch, and more & more sophisticated Image In-Camera algorithms & processing, to get rid of the natural more noise at higher ISO. Sensor Surface isn't physically being replaceable - but only with physical bigger Sensors, simple Laws of Physics.

For instance, there are YT Videos from the A9(II) 24 MP vs the A7R IV (61MP) and the latter one does have way more noise at comparable high ISO shots, by Design.

2012 brought already the Sony 36 MP Sensor - and unless one is literally being printing out Advertising pillars, and 3x5meter Street Advertisings, what's the Joke all about with that huge Megapixels? - The Camera Industry is at a low point, and needs to sell you all couple Years new Gear, so the MP War is spot on again since Years. Most Users nowdays never, ever print, i do print as large as 80x120cm on Canvas, and this with 16 MP, 24 MP. Got a few Prints, and it's plenty enough MP, on the Wall.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

Marc, it is the sensor size and technology what matters.
Sony A7RIV has a bad sensor in my mind. I see noise even at base ISO sometimes.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

worldaccordingtojim

2010 auto focus system, Panasonic is the least competitive manufacturer out there. DP Review is the only one keeping them alive, even YouTubers have moved on.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

2010 is also the bit depth in use for all Sony or Nikon cameras in video, (except the SIII). There is waaay more to consider than AF. Especially for a hybrid camera.
There is no other FF (or crop for that matter, except lumix m43) camera providing 4:2:2 10bit internal video, or 4k/60p 10bit also internal. Only A7S III with half the resolution and twice the price.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

caver3d

Mindless, ignorant comment. I own Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic full-frame, and I can say that the S5 is outstanding. You know nothing.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Fairlane

Oh the Panasonic haters. I just don't get it. Go handle one, you'll be convinced. The S5 rocks.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

katy C.

Huh?
Philip Bloom on You Tube has named
the Panasonic S5 as No.1 Hybrid camera
of the year under £2000,
katy

Jan 15, 2021permalink

SomeguyPNW

@worldaccordingtojim Not everyone does sports. AF is the least important bit for real estate / architecture / landscape photographers as long as it actually *can* focus (unlike my A7Rii at dusk with a Canon 70-200...)

Jan 15, 2021permalink

And if it hadn't been for that adapted Canon, Sony's FF MILC hopes would have died back in 2014 when they had like four native lenses available-but their ace in the hole was the Metabones adapter, for which they shared none of their "open" AF protocols.

Oh, and also a lot of Playstation cash to prop up their camera division.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

There is NO doubt in my mind about one thing. Had Panasonic adopted a phase detection hybrid setup for their focus I would have bought and loved their system. I tried a S1 when it was first released and of ALL the cameras to date it is clearly superior manufacture and design and execution all the way. FAR beyond Sony, Canon and Nikon. However I simply could not commit to a focus system as their cameras have. The sensor and results IMHO are about the finest out there. Love their color science and their lenses are as Leica like as they come. Sadly....their focus system sunk the boat for me.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

yeah - it is amazing how a company makes a decision and sticks with it - even when feedback is telling them it was a mistake.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

caver3d

ProDude, we will welcome you back any time to the L-mount forum. The recent updates keep improving the AF. And I also own the S5 - great camera. For me, the AF is really good and not an issue. Re-think your position.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Thanks caver3D. I appreciate it. However I recently invested $17k in the Canon R5 and a bunch of L glass and 2 top Sigma's. So I'm pretty much DONE for a very long time. I'm rather thrilled with what the R5 and those wonderful RF lenses have brought to my table. I'm taking NOTHING away from the S cameras to be sure. It was a wonderful trial I had when the S1 was released. I had been considering a S1R but things just didn't go that way. The top lenses for the Panny are indeed superb no question about it. I do feel where build integrity is concerned you can't top the Panasonic pro bodies to be sure. Their color science is superb as well. Like I said there is NOTHING to complain about, but if one is trying to track fast moving sports, birds and such, they have a ways to go. Contrast detection has some inherent issues that I'm not completely confident they can overcome with their DFD as great as it is. But once again when it comes to images from a Panny they are TOP FLIGHT!!!

Jan 15, 2021permalink

aris14

It's a fact that PD is somehow inferior to ED in some quite demanding situations. But actually it's like choosing a super car for a ride in the sunshine at 50mph or a 4WD SUV just only to "paint" its tyres with a bit of dirt or sand in the beach.
The fact that Pana stubbornly insists on PD means that either have a good reason to believe that they can achieve and overpass the PD performance in near future or there is a matter of policy for some very "Japanesque" reasons the peculiar way that only occurs in Japanese culture.
In every case the ball is in their field and for the moment it seems they don't really care for this gear headed niche.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

aris - it isn't just a 'gear head' problem. It seems the contrast detect systems have to rack focus at least a little to maintain focus. This might be OK if it is super fast for stills. But can be a problem for video. Well - I know - most pro video is manual focus anyway. But on some occasions AF might come in handy for video.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

the "pumping" effect of the non phase detection system Panny uses is a bit annoying. And of course it doesn't track fast erratic moving subjects as well as phase detection combo setups from Sony and Canon do today. That said I would bet dollars to donuts at SOME point down the road, Panny will have processing so very fast, that the system they are using may well equal or surpass the PD systems of Canon and Sony. It will require some very very fast processing power. But that's just a matter of time to become available. Who knows it could be in a couple of years. If they hang in their they will reap the benefits of the patience they've had with their system.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Produde - they will still have to mechanically rack focus to achieve focus. Not sure how to get around that.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

brownie314 I can assure you if the processing power was significant enough. the racking you describe will occur so quickly that you won't even see it. THAT is what I'm talking about. It is mechanically and electronically possible. All they have to do is figure it all out and juice it up with the processing power to deliver. Watch what I'm saying come true down the road.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

" I can assure you if the processing power was significant enough. the racking you describe will occur so quickly that you won't even see it." - well maybe. Unless it is some physical limit of the amount of power the focus motors can output. Mechanical things cannot happen instantly - it takes power.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

It's a bit like the new Nano USM motors in my new RF lenses Canon is using. The focus is literally INSTANT. There is NO hesitation whatsoever unlike previous generations. Hence I have NO doubt whatsoever with Panasonic's resources they WILL overcome the deficit of the current focus system in time. It is indeed just a matter of time as technology moves forward.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Well - I agree that if you throw enough programmers, engineers and scientists at a problem - a solution will eventually immerge.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Precisely. And time has a way of working these things out. As we'd all have to agree, the tech that exists in our cameras today was only a dream a mere 5 years ago. So I'm that much more confident what will be in another 5 years.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

Well - the industry was still flush with cash 5 years ago. I do hope development continues at a high pace. But - we will see where the industry shakes out after all this pandemic stuff is over. The numbers are not promising.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

aris14

Conceptually PD is the proper approach compared to ED and requires less power consumption and more convenient and balanced resource administration overall. In the other hand ED introduced/welcomed more users in videography than ever and quite affordably. Both facts, amongst others more or less essential/significant. reshape/reform the market mix of all users except pros or connoisseurs. A rather typical effect in every consumer behavior, having to do with manufacturers policy and strategy and this is their dog not mine. Marketing games leave me totally indifferent.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

ProfHankD

The JPEG engine looks really good at high ISOs, but rather poor at low ISOs. That said, the pixel shift looks great.... The catch is this is still priced like an A7III, and not really as a low-entry-cost camera. I do like the 20-60mm kit focal length range, and at $300, that's a good selling point.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Which entry level camera has a high resolution mode and has a 5.9K RAW video option? IIRC, not even $3400 A7S3 does that.

One of the possibly overlooked benefits is this camera has multiple uses, a few things it would take 2 or more cameras to do.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

Would get this before the A7SIII in a heartbeat. Cheaper, higher res, higher res/better video, I really don't see the reasoning for spending the extra $1500. Especially with the nowadays really fleshed out L mount lens ecosystem.

Jan 16, 2021permalink

ProfHankD

Ric 360: ALL cameras, even without IBIS, can be used for hand-held multi-shot superresolution, it's just a matter of how convenient it is to get the result -- I first did that kind of postprocessing nearly two decades ago. I don't need 5.9K raw video; decent 4K is more than I usually need (usually mastering 4K to output 1080). On the other hand, I use tons of adapted glass, including lots of manual lenses and more than a few Minolta/Sony A lenses and some Canon EF, and way more of them work way better on an E/FE body than on L mount.

Bottom line: I was considering upgrading from my A7II+A7RII for about a year. The Nikon Z7II and Sony A7RIV both looked viable (although even Z mount loses the A compatibility). So, last month, I bought ANOTHER Sony A7RII new for $1200. Put bluntly, it's not a new model, but the A7RII seriously outclasses the IQ of any of the other cheap FF options as well as effectively handling nearly any adapted glass (I have LA-EA1/2/3/4, LM-EA7, & Metabones EF).

Jan 16, 2021permalink

obsolescence

I need pixel shift with flash in the studio. AFAIK only Olympus cameras offer this.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

focal yokel

Oh, man — you’re going to have me setting up strobes. I had no idea.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

obsolescence

Pixel shift capture greatly reduces noise, moire, and color artifacts, so it’s excellent for studio work with strobes. Olympus cameras let me set the delay between exposures to allow for recycling. Does any other camera brand enable this?

BTW Olympus cameras have ISO 64 and 125 as options for even greater detail (albeit slightly diminished DR), which is not shown in DPReview’s tests.

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

Higgins2002

It seems like the sensor is not the same as in S1.

Look at the Raw DR: Exposure Latitude samples and compare S1 and S5 at +6EV the S1 is way better in this case.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

I am very impressed. I looked at the "torture test" picture. Water and movement usually ruins high resolution pictures. Not so here.
And these are available instantly SOOC.

Did anyone try this handheld?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Not possible with handheld. It requires a tripod.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

It appears to do well with movement, so I was wondering if anyone tried hand held.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Yes there is option to shoot high res with slighty moving subjects, but it wont allow you to move. There is always a confusion about this with Panasonic, but it states clearly in the manual. Handheld results are just bad.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

I am sure it says that in the manual. But has anyone tried. Its pretty is to brace yourself and the camera when shooting for stability. If it can shoot waves like in the example, it might get acceptable results.
So has anyone tried?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

On the SL2 and S1R you get a warning if it is not steady. (When handheld).
So it will not work handheld. (The S5 camera does not fire).
And results are not really good when handheld (as can be seen with Oly).

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

I love how this camera so much to offer at it's price point it is unmatched for video, really the only ones beating it are the SIII and the S1H, but at a much higher price point. Aside from thar it has high res mode, live composite and so on. Kudos for Panasonic.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Mariano Pacifico

"Top Notch". Thank you, Lumix. Pre-ordered!

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Jan and his Camera

Does the high-res mode work handheld?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Thank you Panasonic for offering high res JPEGs instantly that look very good as well as RAW versions. I realize other makers also this, but at least one makes you jump through a lot of hoops to get a High Res image, which any camera can do with software anyway.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Tazz93

I never realized that pixel shifting tech effectively needs to be down sampled to see appreciable improvement. To me its very similar to a digital up-res, but I admit once its normalized there are tangible benefits. Even the A7R4 looks to be the same way.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

MEDISN

It doesn't have to be "normalized" to be usable at higher MP. Although the "need" for 80+ MP images is realistically uncommon for my work so many get delivered at lower resolutions.

I tried various upscaling methods alongside Olympus' hand-held high res mode (different from pixel shift being discussed here) but even at 50MP it looks better than Adobe "Preserve Details 2" and Topaz Gigapixel AI.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63941008?image=8

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Tazz93

I don't think I described that well. What I am saying is, the massive file is a hot mess until you downsample it. It takes on the look of a digital up-res at full size. But once downsized it is apparent there is an appreciable improvement in actual detail.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

MEDISN

I guess I haven't seen that. In the link I posted above those are 1:1 view. I don't see problem using it at that size. Is there an example you're thinking of that illustrates the problem?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Tazz93

They do mention it takes sharpening well, so maybe that's it, but it is super soft. The Sony A7R4 is the same. They are both "bigger", but don't display more detail initially. Again, maybe it has more to do with the sharpening. When I view the jpeg version, with built in sharpening, it definitely looks better.

Jan 15, 2021*permalink

It’s only soft because it is raw. The jpegs are sharp and the raws can easily be sharpened. (usual procedure with raws)
Sony is very bad in comparison. (And not in camera).
And just adding several pics is not the same, it improves maybe DR, but does not give full color (true color avoiding the Bayer pattern) and no higher resolution.
For archiving highres and true color is very desirable, and here it costs nothing extra.

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

yayatosorus

Damn I'd love to get a pixel-shift mode on Fuji. Good looking files!

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

janHalasa

It's probably more difficult with its X Trans sensor pattern.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

yayatosorus

Yes. I understand why it hasn't been implemented, but it'd be great nonetheless.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

I wonder why Fuji couldn't do it? (I shoot Fuji X-H1s with IBIS).

Jan 16, 2021permalink

PortraitLover

I hope DFD is discontinued finally?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Rumor is it will be paired with a ToF sensor. If true that MAY be better than PDAF because PDAF blocks a small percentage of pixels. (1 million or so on a 24MP sensor - and no, we are not taking about PDAF pixels only).
On the other hand, everyone is working on using ToF, so who knows what ends up being best.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

I can live very well with DFD. It is quite fast on the S5. Faster than I need in almost all situations. The “problem” arises mainly in marketing, not in reality. Or in web influencers that use the camera for two days and only for some stupid artificial tests, but not for real projects.
For photography it is plenty good enough. For video af typically looks bad and is often not used if you want to be sure to avoid these ugly focus changes. For very simple AF it works well, but for more ambitious projects any AF is typically bad looking and unusable (see Sony; Canon is a little bit better but still not really good ).

ToF is used in cars to provide 3D impression of reality. For camera AF it is not clear if it is usable (currently rather not). Some mobile phones use it, but not really for AF.

Guess why the dpr videos are shot with S1H and not with a Sony (that wins here all the trophies).

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

ZicusPhoto

I bought the Panasonic S5 since it fits my budget and use - got the Sigma 45mm F2.8 for free and I have been shooting with it since Oct 2020 and really happy with it. It came with the 20-60mm kit lens which I have sold since - although I have to say it was very light and fast focusing. My other lens is the Panasonic 24-105 F4 which is a solid lens.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Fotoni

Camera JPEG outputs are very often muddy, have strange colors and black / white levels. I don't get it why full frame would need noise reduction in daylight and especially when pixel shifting is used. When looking those pixel shift (hi-res) photos, even static parts have messy pixel details. Camera JPEG just kills the benefits.

Even though Dpreview likes to cut corners by stating top-notch pixel shift, the real problem of pixel shifting remains the same. It is all about software motion interpolation which can make a difference. Panasonic S5 can do that better straight from the camera, but cannot rival with external software solutions where you have more control and patience for tuning. So pretty much every pixel shift capable camera photos can be edited to match or outperform S5 automatic motion compensation. Also reduced noise benefit is not because of pixel shift, but because of stacked photos. Every camera can do that.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

I guess you have a lot of time on your hands.

Jan 15, 2021*permalink

I think Panasonic and Sigma need more affordable lenses to persuade people to buy into their system

Jan 14, 2021permalink

ZicusPhoto

There's a bunch of Sigma's already available. Also, if you use the MC21 adapter from Sigma, the Canon EF universe opens up - some really solid options there.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

I think MC21 has many limitations in AF and Sigma offerings are not entry-level priced.
20-60mm is good, but I'd like to see reasonably priced 50mm and 70-300mm. Now I checked and they are in fact coming (Panasonic promised some time ago).

Jan 14, 2021permalink

ZicusPhoto

I agree there definitely are limitations and its encouraging that more L mount glass is on its way. I would say one thing though - the Sigma 45mm F2.8 is a cracking good lens and excellent value for money.

Feb 23, 2021permalink

ogl

No camera could reach Pentax K-1's pixel shift details and sharpness. panasonic couldn't too....

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Jan and his Camera

Which you know how?

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Obviously not true.

Jan 15, 2021permalink

mu7z

I would really love an S5, I just wish we had more affordable lenses sub 1000$

Jan 14, 2021permalink

rubank

There are more than 10 Sigma lenses sub $1000, from 24 to 400 mm.
Plus quite a few MF specialty lenses from Laowa et al.

Jan 14, 2021*permalink

senthil book palace

WAITING for full review of panasonic S5.. too late :)

Jan 9, 2021permalink

krystof163

It seems that reviews of Panasonic cameras take longer than other brand... I don't understand why the S5 appears in comparisons but hasn't been fully reviewed yet.
Too bad, since Christmas is now...

Dec 23, 2020permalink

Michiel953

Crying here... and LMAO

Jan 14, 2021permalink

Kari T

Please give us full review as a Christmas present!

Dec 22, 2020permalink

Tom248

It's been 4 months since the initial review- wonder when we might get a full review of this significant FF camera?

Dec 16, 2020permalink

It would be cool if some lens maker came to their senses and made a DX zoom lens starting at 15mm and extending to 50mm. I know Sigma and nikon start at 17, but not wide enough.

Dec 14, 2020permalink

Markr041

Canon EF S 15-85mm IS lens. Excellent.

Jan 14, 2021permalink