Do you need 41 megapixels? Our Nokia Lumia 1020 camera review

For still photography the Nokia 808Pureview is better. The advantage o/t Lumia 1020 is its on-board Optical Image stabilization which has more benefit to videographers.

Jun 2, 2014permalink

Robert Eckerlin

Disapointed by Nokia and by the Lumia 1020

1) Just after 4 months, my Nokia Lumia 1020 stalled and I had to bring it to the merchant (this is MediaMarkt in Switzerland). The merchant told me, that they had quite a number of other customers with the same or similar problem and that they have to send it for repair. After getting back my Lumia 1020, I had to re-initialize it from scratch. That is quite a lot of very unpleasant work.

2) Neither the merchant nor the repair organization were willing to give me a Nokia Phone Number that I could use to inquire about the problem or could complain.

3) In Addition the colors of landscape photos are horrible. Especially the Greens. I do not understand why the Lumia gets nice reviews for its "photo quality".... The Colors of the photos should be part of the photo-quality criterias.

Apr 29, 2014*permalink

Parishrut Pandey

Lumia 1020 is a video beast.

Apr 27, 2014permalink

Vladik

I downsized 1020 file to 13mp and S4 still stumps all over that image. Very disappointing. What is the point of packing all those pixel, I dont get it. Why not just make excellent 8 or 10 MP sensor with superior JPG engine, that stumps over all other cameras. I have 1520 and the camera produces rather disappointing results as well.

Mar 27, 2014permalink

Just another Canon shooter

Yours must be broken. Apart from the usualy yellow cast on Sony BSI sensors of that era, the L1020 at pureview resolution creates very good pictures (in Pureview mode). Especially with Nokia's recent updates (Nokia black). Nonetheles IMHO for still photography the 808Pureview is MUCH better. Not in the least because it has more PureView modes. Lumia 1020 has only a 5MP pureview mode while the 808PV has 5MP (standard), 8MP and 3MP pureview modes. The lowest mode also has the largest zoom-factor as well. It also has a Neutral Density (ND8) filter (about 3F stops) and ISO50. It also has 3 programmable presets in creative mode to store to 3 most used settings. IMHO Connect.Dpreview should use the 808PV as the standard to compare all the others (including the L1020). In fact I've replaced my Nikon D40 with this "phone". (Though I am thinking of getting a 2nd hand D7000 though)

Jun 2, 2014*permalink

"The “digital zoom” feature on most phones is generally a disappointing alternative. - Nokia changed that with the 808’s downsampling zoom, ..."

They did not. It is exactly the same thing, digital zoom, but with a higher pixel density. DPR should stop repeating that marketing nonsense.

Jan 25, 2014permalink

No it is not. The 808PV doesn't really zoom, it creates a center crop from the sensors' full 41MP data. Other phones at that time had 8MP unzoomed data that got blown up (interpolated) upto the wanted zoom-level. You could do that as well in photoshop. In fact if you take a 41MP picture from the 808PV and center crop a 8MP part of it in photoshop then you do exactly as what the 808PV does for you when "zooming". The advantage of the 808PV is NOT its zoom but it's downsampled images at 3MP, 5MP and 8MP respectively. As soon as you start using zoom that advantage disappears (though you still got "some" pureview-quality when not zoomed to the full).

Jun 2, 2014*permalink

DHJen

Great camera with a embedded mobile phone.

Oct 19, 2013permalink

gerogesteam

I just purchased phone and there is a very noticeable internal lens flaw, that shows up on all photographs. The camera is amazing when it worked properly, low light is fantastic, (you forget it is a phone) but caution.. Look for lens flaw (take pictures in different lighting situations) and KNOW your carriers replacement policy, as my carrier wants to give me a refurb unit only 18 days after purchase on a Manufactures Defect.

Oct 16, 2013permalink

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/5026/sagn.jpg

yup, also check for soft right hand or left hand sides of image when capturing at full resolution! landscapes where focus is infinite. It is a design fault which not too many people know about

Oct 22, 2013*permalink

Unstoppable36SG

How many 808's do have this issue? From my experience, the blur/soft in the right part of the image increases in hot days/when the device is hot.

Can you please explain more of this problem? I'm very interested, and I want to know as much as I can . Thanks :)

Oct 23, 2013permalink

massimogori

You and DXO people have really to find an agreement. From one side you are ready to make free advertisements by publishing a set of average photos given to you by Nokia. From the other side DXO people puts the phone down in comparison with the much less photo oriented samsung S4.

Communication is of the essence!

Oct 14, 2013*permalink

Zlik

The video stabilization score is somehow surprising. A low 49 with hardware stabilizaion? And the iphone 5s has 54 ?

Having used and seen what the stability of the lumia 920 in video, I am a little perlpexed.

Oct 12, 2013*permalink

Tom May

In the "Cons" under the video tests:

Walking movements remain uncorrected by the video stabilization

Over-correction of video stabilization when steadied (on a tripod).

Oct 12, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Do you need 41 megapixels? DXOMark says nah !!!!!

Oct 12, 2013permalink

40MP at least

Oct 12, 2013permalink

BigGuyLeo

Needed 32mp to look at the picture 20 years later on my big 8k tv

Mar 10, 2017permalink

"DxOMark found the Nokia Lumia 1020 Apple iPhone 5s' exposure and color reproduction to be good." - someone needs to proofread this again. there are also lines where it mentions iPhone instead of 1020. the autofocus section even has a bullet point with no text

Oct 12, 2013permalink

jcmarfilph

Talk about recycling with random minuses and pluses. It just happened the iPhone5s has more random pluses. =D

Oct 12, 2013permalink

jcmarfilph

Non-sense!

How can they rate a iPone5s with sub-par/mediocre sensor higher than this one. Only an idiot will believe in this DXOcrap mark. Do a side-by-side comparison between the two and post here the results (not just a useless numbers) and you will see that this camera will stomp iPhone5s in any department.

Oct 12, 2013permalink

Tom May

How?

A good implementation of a lesser sensor wins against a bad implementation of a better sensor in Dx0's test of still images and video.

Perhaps you should direct your ire at Nokia for screwing up the WP implementation of the 1020, seeing as though the Pureview 808 came out on top in the same test, and fairly so.

Oct 12, 2013permalink

KAMSA

Brp, That's a Ca-get don't think it will replace any DSLR

Iknd reg.

Oct 12, 2013permalink

netrex

Is there really no way of adjusting contrast, sharpening and color saturation? That is a big fail IMO. I use the 808 a lot, and when I use the full resolution, I have those turned all the way or almost all the way down.

I don't understand why they would do this, even in the Pro Cam app? It's very strange.

Sep 29, 2013permalink

You can edit it with Nokia's Creative Studio app, and it's quite nice, not to mention there are tons of other apps which get integrated into the "edit" option so it's pretty quick to get to each app as well.

Dec 21, 2013permalink

stupidus

Balanced review, IMHO.

Satisfying compromise between pocketability, usability (with camera grip/extra battery add-on) and aesthetically pleasing design (all the way from the exterior to the OS's UI).

The going rate for Lumia 1020 is $610 (was $800).

Seems to me like already pretty sweet deal is getting sweeter fast (particularly or hopefully when some software issues, ie. picture-to-picture lag, will be resolved later on).

One thing that I don't quite understand though is some folks' logic. If 1020 doesn't sell well, it will become another niche product just like 808.

Saying you'll rather wait for the next iteration is the same as not wanting 1020 to succeed. The fewer buyers, the greater chance that 2nd iteration will never even happen. It really is that simple.

There are no perfect products and never will be. The only way to support _better_ innovation is to buy those products you see the most _potential_ in - _now_, not next year.

If I'd afford 1020, I'd buy it ASAP.

Sep 25, 2013permalink

bawboh86

I picked on up for the exact reasons you point out (that, and I'm a photographer that goes on runs a lot, and my last phone's camera just didn't cut it).

Sep 26, 2013permalink

WalterSanders

I use a wifi card in either a RX-100 (1" sensor) or my Nikon DSLR.
Jpeg pictures are instantly loaded to my smartphone.
Don't see much need for processing zoom this way, but, its fascinating what can and will be done.
I'll wait for 2nd generation.

Sep 18, 2013permalink

CaptureAll

41MP, I barely even need 12MP on my dSLR.

Why not make improvements on the shot-to-shot times (easy when 5 to 8MP is plenty of info to use. How much resolution does your monitor display? Lets be honest, how often do you print? When you do, how often above 5x7 do you go? 10 years ago I used a Nikon 5700 which has 5MP to make great 13x19 photos via a Canon S9000 printer. The prints are still on the wall today and I always get comments. The MP marketing is winning it seems.

How about a faster lens, say f/1.8 and faster shutter speeds? Also, make it a sharper lens, ie; in the corners.

Then you'd have something more functional and reasonable.

Sep 16, 2013permalink

Kivivuori

Isn`t 1/16 000 s fast enough ?

Sep 21, 2013permalink

mabasa

Cropping and downsampling. You would know if you read the article first.

Sep 21, 2013permalink

http://tinyurl.com/nxbzyob

"Why not make improvements on the shot-to-shot times (easy when 5 to 8MP is plenty of info to use."
Because the L1020 uses a software algorithm to process the sensor data into a JPEG (or whatever). The 808PV has a dedicated DSP that does all the math instantly and has a terrific shot-to-shot time. It's obvious that the Lumia 1020's multicore CPU isn't fast enough to handle that amount of data. A bad move from Nokia which they did to make the device thinner. They should have used the SAME albeit thicker sensor from the 808PV and bloted OIS on that.

Jun 2, 2014permalink

Marcus gwise

No not really
i was let down bye the look of the 1020
i love my Nokia 925
i think. Its the best smartphone,the whole phone just. So smooth

Sep 10, 2013permalink

Arquetipo

Check the new promo for the 1020, the samples, the satire, and the pretty darn good "digital zoom"

Sep 5, 2013permalink

CameraLabTester

Microsoft just wasted money...

$7.2 BILLION

Bought NOKIA just now...

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/Sep13/09-02AnnouncementPR.aspx

Sep 3, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Microsoft is wasted money !!

Sep 3, 2013permalink

Virvatulet

There is a wide spread consensus that the offered price was far too low, emphasizing Stephen Elop's questionable role in this transaction.
We'll see how the EGM shall cast their vote; the deal is anything but certain.

Sep 3, 2013permalink

Savengance

They did not waste money actually, they have 3 percent of the market share in the United States however that is not what they are concerned with. They are going overseas to India where there are over 900 million people who own cell phones and only 6 million of them have smart phones. Nokia has ( or had since they're part of Microsoft now) a significant market share over there. Most of the people there have basic phones that are of poor quality, Microsoft is about to break into that huge market.

Sep 6, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

I don't think Microsoft wasted money on Nokia (IMHO Nokia is the big loser of the deal) either, but having 3,5% of market share the first half of 2013 and AT&T holding Nokia's sales (AT&T IS Nokia's exclusive partner in U.S), Microsoft will need some more manufacturers to spread the O.S(in U.S), or else wp8 don't stand much chance .
Microsoft wanted a hardware store and got it (Nokia) for 5+ billion euros .
What i think Microsoft is trying to do (among others) (with this purchase) is to establish herself in European market dragging American market share.
In India is settled one of Nokia's biggest production lines
(in Chennai) (being very popular as well) but even that couldn't hold the Nokia's World Wide market share fall from 23,4% 4Q 2011 to 18% 4Q 2012

Sep 6, 2013permalink

meanwhile

And now we see why this is running Windows. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23940171

Sep 3, 2013permalink

Stu 5

Noikasoft

Sep 3, 2013permalink

Torgrims

Thanks for a great review! Its a definitive buy for me, just hope its released in Europe soon (next week?).

Sep 2, 2013permalink

brdeveloper

What's wrong with a thicker phone with a larger sensor? An 808 with an OIS would be perfect to me.

Sep 2, 2013*permalink

would you still think OIS on 808 is perfect if adding it shrank the aperture, doubled the cost and halved the battery life?

Sep 2, 2013permalink

Yes true, but also we have to consider the imaging processor. Although the 808 does have the larger sensor higher signal to noise, alot of the final image output is heavily dependent on the image processor. Since the 1020 has a software image processor, there is hope that a firmware update may fix alot of the issues of noise, and poor texture detail at low ISO

Sep 2, 2013permalink

Lumia 1020 didn't double the cost nor did it cut the battery life in half. Speculation trolling is funny though!

Sep 21, 2013permalink

actually I just want a 808PV nothing less. Nokia should have kept selling the 808PV alongside the Lumia 1020. They could have sell it as a cheaper alternative with smaller screen (and better suited to still photography) and shut-up about it running Symbian. Just sell it as a camera-phone instead of a "smartphone". I personally don't want anythong more. Just another 808PV if mine breaks down.

Jun 2, 2014permalink

dpfan32

I've shot thousands of photos with my 808 nad this one is no replacement for the good old PureView 808. Sorry: OS is great but the camera is not.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

that's because you don't value video

Sep 2, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Or maybe he has acute eyesight !!!

Sep 2, 2013permalink

Cam Jones

I've been reading all these 808 vs. 1020 comments and it's hilarious to see all the 808 owners (including those who never even owned one) refuse to let their old phone die.
I viewed the photo samples shot by the new 1020 and to be honest, I don't understand what the 808 supporters are crying about. I'm a die-hard iPhone user (since iPhone1) and the 1020 sample images are stunning. But then I have a high-resolution 27-inch monitor w/ a professional graphics board. Maybe I'm seeing something the 1020 bashers are not?

Anyway, this all sounds like the old Laser Disc vs. DVD Which-format-is-better Wars. In this case, the 808 supporters are like the LaserDisc fanatics who simply refuses to accept the fact that DVD technology has surpassed their beloved LD (i.e., Nokia 808). LoL. And these people still stubbornly insist their old laser discs are still much better than even Blu-Ray.
Time to throw away the old Nokia phones. What you perceive as something better is just that -- perception.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

@ Cam Jones

Please check other sites which have compared the 808 to the 1020, then you will understand what are we talking about, especially if you view side by side comparisons on your 27" monitor.

Comparing the 808 to the 1020 is a close match, where the 808 will come out on top in bright light and low ISO scenes, and the 1020 will be on top for high ISO scenes. Sadly no iPhone to date gets even close to the performance of the 1020 or the 808.

I do not think your analogy of the laser disc and the DVD is a good correlation to the 808 and the 1020. I would say comparing beta max and VHS as being a better correlation, where the 808 is the beta max, and the 1020 is VHS. The 808 does have better pixel IQ, natural edge and textural detail at low ISO. The 1020 is good, but not as good as the 808, but has much better marketing, plus has extra new technological features like optical stabilization, up to date OS, and slimmer modern formfactor.

Sep 4, 2013permalink

Dominick101

Well said! The iPhone users will never understand what is IQ, 808 vs 1020, because even a Samsung beats them. Anything higher is just bonus?

Sep 6, 2013*permalink

"Well said! The iPhone users will never understand what is IQ, 808 vs 1020, because even a Samsung beats them. Anything higher is just bonus?"

Exactly. Even the GS4 is substantially better, IQ-wise, than the iPhone 5, let alone the 808...

Sep 12, 2013permalink

You forget always my, I mean Nokia N8
:-(

Sep 21, 2013permalink

theranman

TOTALLY sucks that Nokia went with a smaller sensor for this camera phone. Totally.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

scaling technology is a progressive effort. otherwise you'd have OIS and pin sharp 28-300mm f/1.4 lenses in every phone.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

Overdrive

Disappointed in 1020, I had high hopes that Nokia would improve or at least properly port 808's camera into a WP platform. But instead they put a smaller sensor and applied their awful WP algorithms. Not to mention no microSD card slot.

1020 does not produce pleasant images. And that's the bottom line. Its images look very over processed, too sharpened, too grainy and noisy.

Compared to 808, it's like something like a turbo 4 cylinder vs a naturally aspirated V8. 1020 is trying too hard and using all the tricks to look comparable to 808, but it does not compare.

Symbian is a dead platform, but a fact is a fact, there is a phone out there that beats 1020 in IQ, and no matter how many excuses you make, it'll stay a fact. And knowing that, it's hard to shell out €700+ for a camera centric phone knowing it's not the absolute best there is. 1020 feels like a compromise.

As for WP, it's better than Symbian but it would still be a OS(iOS as main) for me, so makes no difference.

Sep 1, 2013*permalink

just for thought, every feature is a compromise. if you don't think OIS is important then you'll prefer the 808. among many other considerations.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

wakaba

Usability of WP on Nokia plattform is handsdown best for everyday. All apps are available. Not too much junk clogging the marketplace. Add great pic quality since the 920 .
Sharing and social media support is way better than ios/and. Charging without plugin is an absolute killer feature. Changing to any iphone would be a massive downgrade.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

@ wakaba

The 1020 requires an accessory to be attached in order to have wireless charging. Currently the best phone camera with wireless charging built in is the 920

Sep 2, 2013permalink

"1020 does not produce pleasant images. And that's the bottom line. Its images look very over processed, too sharpened, too grainy and noisy."

What the heck are you talking about?!?! Looks pretty great to me... you must have some standards so high that no one can reach them.

Dec 21, 2013permalink

"hat the heck are you talking about?!?! Looks pretty great to me... you must have some standards so high that no one can reach them."

Yeah his standards is the same as mine: Nokia 808 Pureview or as Nokia called it "pureview pro".

But you're right. In the past the Lumia 1020 had that nasty yellow cast but after the latest Nokia Black update colour cast has improved a lot. Nearly to the 808PV's level. Finally after almost a full year they got that L1020's sensor under control. Its about time they did. The Samsung Galaxy K Zoom is coming. ;-)

Jun 2, 2014permalink

diagonals of 4:3 and 16:9 are the same (< 1% error).

weird expression but 27mm and 25mm equiv.
might be horizontal AOVs for 4:3 and 16:9 frames
against 35mm format (3:2).

also, at 1.1 micron pitch per spec,
the total area is less than 90% of a standard 2/3",
and the focal length about 5.9mm.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Gryfster

The scoring methodology has completely changed. Are the old scores from previous phones comparable?

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Charlie Jin

41M pixel makes my photos unusable. I never needed over 8M for my phone camera.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Stevan G

the point of 41MP on mobile phone is (mainly) in oversampling, which is sadly not present in this device...

Sep 1, 2013permalink

> 41M pixel makes my photos unusable

what's in 8MP that is not in 41MP?

Sep 1, 2013permalink

mythdat

Then just use the 5MP mode?

Sep 1, 2013permalink

The 41mp on the 1020 is designed for lossless zoom. Even when not zooming, image size can still be set at 5mp derived from an over-sampled "higher quality" image

Sep 1, 2013permalink

pixel count doesn't necessarily affect image quality but high pixel count is a better way than an optical extender for the reach (an optical solution won't be better if it doesn't come with larger aperture).

Sep 2, 2013permalink

"the point of 41MP on mobile phone is (mainly) in oversampling, which is sadly not present in this device..."

It IS present. It just uses a somewhat less sophisticated algorithm than the 808.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

@ Menneisyys

agree, but lets give Nokia a chance to update their software image processor, which hopefully will resolve this not so clean 5mp pureview images. Also lets hope Nokia gives the option to "Turn Off" the saturation and edge sharpening.

Sep 4, 2013permalink

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50864508@N05/sets

Charlie you clearly never saw an 8MP pureview image from an 808PV. I have a few Flickr photos with some comparisions between a few phones and a 808PV. Including a Jolla phone and a Samsung Galaxy S 3 (which has a typical 8MP sensor of that time).

Jun 2, 2014permalink

A complete video shootout? (720, 1080)

Sep 1, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Yes, just like the Samsung S4 !!

Sep 1, 2013permalink

blue hour

I'd rather use messenger pigeons instead
than to buy a phone with a non-removable battery.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

suprjeff

mine is last about 30 hrs. on a charge, try that with your iphone.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Are there pigeons with removable battery ?

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Stevan G

yupp there are, but their back is more prone to falling off when hitting ground

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Actually, Nokia's hardware designs, even for those with sealed batteries, allow for maintenance access without the risk of physical deformation of materials (i.e. HTC One's sealed/pressed construction). My venerable N8's battery is also sealed. I can easily change it out in 2 minutes with a T5 torx and the loosening of 2 small screws.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Photato

Good quality but slow.
Bigger pixels would have made this camera/phone unbeatable.
Kind of understand the notion of zoom/crop. A 10MP count should have been better.

Still good job Nokia!

Sep 1, 2013*permalink

Then you misunderstood the purpose of oversampling. At 5MP, the virtual pixels are 3.2 microns in size. As you zoom, those virtual pixels get smaller until, at full zoom, the virtual pixels are the same size as the physical pixels. You can set the phone to only take the default 5MP photos, which really benefit from the oversampling. As well, the shots are much quicker when full rez is deselected. To note, the 5MP photos take up a frugal ~1MB of storage each. A 10MP sensor without oversampling would not be capable of loss-less zoom. In other words, at full zoom (~3x) the resolution would be significantly reduced due to conventional cropping.

Sep 1, 2013*permalink

bigger pixels would have made this camera/phone less valuable for lower resolution at no benefit, maybe worse image quality.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

ozgoldman

The problem with mobile phone cameras is they are almost all set on auto. I have used my wife's 41mp. mob phone and found even the focus to be a little 'wild'.
They are not for me. I'll stick to the A77 thanks.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

What? troll.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

with larger sensors in cameras, the depth of field may be narrower, and hence the AF must be aquired with a bit of care, otherwise undesirable non focused images can result

Sep 1, 2013permalink

the depth of field have absolutely nothing to do with pixel size because the definition of which refers to the frame, not pixel (often circle of confusion = 1/1300 of diagonal but other numbers can also be used depending on the application, not the camera).

Sep 2, 2013*permalink

@yabokkie If I am not wrong, the question was about why ozgoldman wifes phone has issues with Autofocus. The title 41mp mob refers to probably the Nokia 808 or the 1020, as both these have 41MP. Some people refer to the 808 or the 1020 as just "41mp phone"

Sep 2, 2013permalink

makofoto

iPhone = Touch Focus & Xposure

Oct 12, 2013permalink

Oh really how it the focus wild? You can touch to focus... also you can use manual mode on the 1020... I think you have been smoking something rotten.

Dec 21, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

No. Six will do for most

Aug 31, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

"Do you need 41mp?"

Sure, if the image quality looks good and not all mushed up from too much NR or noise or bad optics.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

ET2

Funny coming from a guy who was constantly claiming "less pixels are better" Now you understand that they are not. You can downsample larger MP images and get same or better image quality. This isn't rocket science.

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

(unknown member)

And the IQ on this sensor is garbage, so what exactly is your point? So far less is more, the way I see it.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

tbcass

The effective resolution is 5mp at most so the 41mp are completely wasted. It's just an advertising gimmick.

Sep 3, 2013permalink

That's funny how people call the 1020 IQ garbage when it's in the top 3. Sorry but, just because video brings the score down, the tests show it just below the 808. So it's the 2nd best IQ phone tied with s4...

but you call it garbage. I guess we should just throw out all those tests then lol

Dec 21, 2013permalink

bb42

For owners of "real" i.e. pure-foto digicams the question is if the hires sensor delivers more detail than a current digicam of similar price.
Too bad that this question is (again) not answered.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

You can easily check this by checking out the double-density ISO 12233 chart parts in the center. They certainly show the lens being able to resolve around 21 Mpixels.

Full 38 Mpixel images (DPReview shoots 4:3 for their mobile studio scene), the horizontal lines can be counted up to around 41, which means the effective resolution is around 38*4100/7136 = 21 Mpixels. (Somewhat less than the maximal theoretical resolution of 38 Mpixel but still excellent for Bayer sensor and a lens this small.). A crop showing this:

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9355200115/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=2 )

5 Mpixel images, on the other hand, have clearly less detail than those of even the iPhone 5, let alone the GS4. (Also note how bad the Nokia 920 is.) The latter two simply deliver better effective resolution, at least with “artificial” subjects likre rescharts:

(contd. below)

Aug 31, 2013permalink

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9355200279/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=3 )

Now, this seeming inferiority can be caused by the strong oversharpening, resulting in false detail in sections over the Nyquist frequency? It must be. The false detail seems to be the single most important problem with Nokia’s algorithm. (More natural scenes are rendered far better; according to DPReview (too), they are better than those of even the GS4.) They should use some kind of digital high-pass filter not to let false detail ruin areas like these. (There shouldn’t be any detail over the Nyquist frequency, that is, with an 5 Mpixel 4:3 (=2592*1936) image, over the 25.9 mark. Everything you see there is false detail.)

Finally, low light: the Nokia 1020 smashes the competition:

Aug 31, 2013permalink

(continued from above)

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9357973914/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(5 Mpixel. Unfortunately, no full-res low-light studio scene shot available. Source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=4 )

Note that the false detail present in the daylight shot (see previous crop) is much less pronounced here. That is, you’re unlikely to see false detail on low-light 5 Mpixel shots.

NOTE: as far as a resolution comparison to the 808 is concerned, unfortunately, these results can’t really be compared to that of the 808 review as the latter only uses DPReview’s default scene (see dpreview.com/articles/8083837371/review-nokia-808-pureview/3 ) but not the usual resolution chart test.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

stevenkelby

"5 Mpixel images, on the other hand, have clearly less detail than those of even the iPhone 5, let alone the GS4."

1020 takes much worse pics than any compact.

Plus 4 seconds to start the camera app, and 4 seconds shot to shot.

No thanks.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

"1020 takes much worse pics than any compact."

In the not-very-good 5 Mpixel mode, yes. In the full-res one, definitely not. You will NOT show me ANY compact with such detail level and true resolution in 80% of the 16:9 frame. After all, the true (!!) resolution of this thing, as I've shown above, is around 21 Mpixels. Not even the RX100 (Mk II) is capable of that...

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Lars Rehm

you focus too much on resolution. It's important yes but from a phone you're likely to share your pics online and for that purpose 5MP is more than enough. However, thanks to its clever downsampling algorithms and very efficient OIS it is very good in low light. You can still take pictures when all you get on some other phones is a pixelated mess.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

"you focus too much on resolution."

The original poster asked about it - this is why I've elaborated on it :)

"It's important yes but from a phone you're likely to share your pics online and for that purpose 5MP is more than enough. "

Yup, but, still, the dowsampling algorithm seems to be a bit weak because it introduces false detail. At least under good light. That is, if one wants to have the best possible results, he / she must allow for saving the original-Mpixel image and do the downsampling on the desktop (or another downsampler) which uses a superior downsampler algorithm.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

@ Menneisyys

You may want to see the results from comparing the Sony RX100 vs RX100 ii using "imaging resources" image comparitor. I have noticed that the false detail you mention seems to creep in on the RX100 ii especially on high contrast edges. To me the older RX100 image pixel IQ is better. This can be no coincidence that the RX100 ii uses a 1" BSI sensor and the older RX100 uses a 1" FSI sensor.

Sep 4, 2013permalink

Arquetipo

The only way to understand the 1020's 41mp is by carefully reading DP and other technical reviews, and for all explanations and image comparisons, it makes a lot of sense. Great 5mp pictures, "a digital zoom that does not suck", image stabilization, and great low-light pictures make this cam-phone the best one. And unless there is an iOS or Android app exclusive of these OS you cannot live with, WP8 is an excellent alternative. I will definitively get one once the unlocked versions drop in price.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

FoveonPureView

The only affordable (for average folks) alternative to the Nokia 808 or this slightly (purely image quality-wise) less-performing 1020 would be the Sigma-Foveon-cameras.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Any day now when your Fovean learns to make phone calls, etc. If there even a WiFi based web browser? e-mail? Twitter? Facebook? Any clone version would be fine . It doesn't have to be an original version as long as it works!
SMS? Something?!
No?
THEN I wish that someone would put a larger lens and Foveon sensor on a phone!!

Sep 21, 2013permalink

@ By FoveonPureView : Not exactly a Foveon sensor but from what I've seen that soon to be available Galaxy K Zoom looks very interesting. IMHO a better OS than WP and a better camera on it too (with 10x optical zoom). ANd from what I've seen the price isn't bad either, about 500 euros.

Jun 2, 2014permalink

Digitall

No I don't need 41mp camera, I need less noise, a clean image, a better IQ with a good optical image stabilization for sure. More sensor size than pixels.

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

(unknown member)

If the question is, if you need 41mp on your phone, the answer is NO !! as long as you have better lens, (than the one this Nokia is equipped with), as for the low light conditions bad is good only when compared to the worst

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Rolandigital

How was with 808 camera start up times? Was it faster?

Aug 31, 2013permalink

pkilpo

I have 808 and I tried to test it, seems to have 1-2sec lag between shots and startup time 3sec. It varies a little sometimes. Maybe it is faster because 808 has dedicated signal processor for images and 1020 uses it's "normal" processor.
Here is it's review: http://connect.dpreview.com/post/4388245494/nokia-808-pureview-review

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

Yes, the 808 sports a dedicated scaling chip for the camera. It also is defaulted to 5MP only. If you select full resolution, it also takes longer to process. IMO, the 1020 should've been set to 5MP only (as default) and have left the dual mode with additional full rez as an option. I think this would've avoided the issue for the most part. However, the "New Way to Zoom" marketing campaign heavily promoted the post shot zoom capability. I suspect the engineers were forced to keep the default in dual mode for this reason.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Gryfster

But not as long as the Lumia 1020. The shot to shot time on the current firmware is too long. Hopefully, they can improve it. Also the 808 has te option to capture 8MP pictures which I think is the perfect size.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

Compare the Lumia 1020 with 5Mpx-only mode to Nokia 808 in the defaul=same mode.
Then in 38Mpx-only both. Compare...
There you go!
It could be that the either the flash or the memory channels are too slow even for the modern phone-class Chips to save the images fast enough.
Lumia 1020 by default takes two pictures and does CPU-based downsampling to 5Mpx and then saves both to the internal Flash. More work, more time needed.

Sep 21, 2013permalink

panoviews

I would buy one, but only with the Android OS.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Don't bother to buy one, chromatic aberration at the corners, doesn't get better with the O.S

Aug 31, 2013permalink

"Don't bother to buy one, chromatic aberration at the corners, doesn't get better with the O.S"

Oh no, you again... :)

Let me point out again and again that the lens softness only affects the left/rightmost 10% of the frame. The remaining 80% is tack sharp.

That is, don't spread false propaganda. While the 1020 has its share of problems, it's in no way a bad camera. IQ-wise, particularly if you stick with the hi-res mode and do any kind of downsampling on the desktop, it's certainly MUCH better than any else smartphone camera out there.

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

(unknown member)

Don't tell me you're not happy to see me again ;-)

The lens does NOT fit the camera and that is OBVIOUS , it is not only 10% but a lot more (more than 20%) (and you can check that from the photos taking for the national geographic -look at the color fall off at the hat of dude in the picture-)
Do you know what is false propaganda in here ?
All the commentators that joined today (31 of August ) to comment today the superiority of this phone ( that is typical Nokian fan guided tactics, that is what happened last year with 808 pureview as well, That is Propaganda )
About this phone-camera is good compared among phones and thats all, (some stupids last year hastened to compare it to Canon 5D or even Nikon D800), as for what you pay and what you get you better buy yourself a 300$ point and shoot camera and you'll get better Image Quality than this ...... thing !!!!!

P.S Nice talking to you again !

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

"The lens does NOT fit the camera and that is OBVIOUS , it is not only 10% but a lot more (more than 20%) (and you can check that from the photos taking for the national geographic -look at the color fall off at the hat of dude in the picture-)"

The picture at http://connect.dpreview.com/files/p/cms_posts/5588168824/natgeo3.jpg is almost unusable to properly evaluate lens sharpness as it's marred by NR. I'd say the color smear is caused by the NR and in no way the lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame.

I've evaluated a lot of, technically, far better images with far lower NR. All of them exhibited the same lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame in 16:9 and 6% in 4:3 mode.

Feel free to show me images that can really be evaluated (aren't marred by NR this bad) and show a much larger region of serious lens blur. (Except for early samples, of course.)

Aug 31, 2013*permalink

"All the commentators that joined today (31 of August ) to comment today the superiority of this phone ( that is typical Nokian fan guided tactics, that is what happened last year with 808 pureview as well, That is Propaganda )
About this phone-camera is good compared among phones and thats all, (some stupids last year hastened to compare it to Canon 5D or even Nikon D800), as for what you pay and what you get you better buy yourself a 300$ point and shoot camera and you'll get better Image Quality than this ...... thing !!!!! "

Well, I haven't noticed an onslaught of new, just-registered people praising the 1020. Actually, we "oldtimers" (also, many of us 808 users) even stated we won't upgrade to the 1020 because of the deficiencies in the IQ. I stated it too below. And I even stated the iPhone 5 has, for a 1/3" 8 Mpixel sensor, good IQ.

This can't be called Nokia propaganda (on my / our part) either.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

AndyHWC

CA is not a deal breaker. The awarding winning Fuji F30 which I still own has serious CA issue. Easy fix by pp.

Quick question, can I stop down a Lumia 1020?

Aug 31, 2013permalink

"Quick question, can I stop down a Lumia 1020?"

Nope, it has fixed aperture, as all other smatphones.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

-"I'd say the color smear is caused by the NR and in no way the lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame."-

I didn't know that NR smears color form ISO 100 (this must be a world wide novelty for Lumia 1020 ).
And if you "haven't noticed an onslaught of new, just-registered people praising the 1020" then check again !!!

I didn't say it is Nokia's propaganda but NOKIA'S FANS propaganda. As for the you (the 808 users) i think it would be good to upgrade to 1020, cause you were the ones saying that you 'd buy that phone not to curry a photo camera with you , yes but with that phone ,you'll need to curry one more phone (that can work properly) :-)

Lumia 1020 (in my humble opinion ) is good for a phone the lens is "let's say a poor choice" but compared with the competition the 41mp sensor is making much fuss about nothing special

Aug 31, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

the natgeo3 photo has f2,2 ISO100 and shutter speed 1/170 so the NR theory is nice for the ignorant

Aug 31, 2013permalink

"the natgeo3 photo has f2,2 ISO100 and shutter speed 1/170 so the NR theory is nice for the ignorant"

You mean the image at http://connect.dpreview.com/files/p/cms_posts/5588168824/natgeo3.jpg is suffering from lens softness and not NR-induced blurring??? You certainly don't know what you're speaking about...

Man, we're talking about a sensor with 1.12 micron photodiodes.... show me a SINGLE camera that isn't noisy at base ISO with such small photodiodes... you won't show me any.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

NR at shutter speed 1/170, ISO 100 ??????
Mate !! you (the Nokian fans) were talking about the superiority of the 41mp and the oversampling giving low light better noise reduction and now you tell me about NR color smearing ? and that the photodiode is 1,12 μm big ?

In every photo taken from that phone the light distortion is OBVIOUS at least 2/3 off center
look at the comparison chart at the corners and compare it with samsung s4 ( which is the sharper of the category )

Sep 1, 2013permalink

"NR at shutter speed 1/170, ISO 100 ??????
Mate !! you (the Nokian fans) were talking about the superiority of the 41mp and the oversampling giving low light better noise reduction and now you tell me about NR color smearing ?"

Albeit I know it's pretty useless to argue with you, but...

1, I'm speaking of (and have linked to) the full-res 34 Mpixel image, not the downsampled one. Downsampled ones are better, as has the DPReview folks also pointed out here in the comment section.

2, again, show me ANY 1.12 um sensor that isn't nosy at even base ISO.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

If it's useless why you do ?

1. The image quality does not respond to what you (not personally but the Nokia people ) praise that is.

2. The lens does not support the size of the sensor and it is OBVIOUS as soon as you get off the center of the image ( IT DOES NOT GET BETTER DOWN-SIZED, DOWN-SAMPLED OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT ) .

3. If there were gonna be a problem with the size of the pixel (something that some of you shouting that it wouldn't) then you should have tried a different sensor
with bigger pixels

4. If you have that much problem with NR at Shutter Speed 1/170 and ISO 100, search again for a different sensor.

AND FINALLY if the question is: "If we need so many pixels on our phone ?"
The photos taken from this phone is the living prove
THAT WE DO NOT .-

Sep 1, 2013permalink

@ AndyHWC

CA may not be a deal breaker but corner softness may be. The Fuji F30 was a very capable camera at it's time and sported one of the best signal to noise output from a point and shoot camera. The lens in that camera however was never highly regarded for quality compared with other compacts in the same range. That said, F30 had a optical zoom lens, which in compacts are usually not as good as fixed focal length lens.

The old Nokia 808 has a fixed focal length lens that has excellent corner detail, which is surprising for a small optic. The later Nokia 920, 925 and 928 also has a fixed focal length and all have good corner detail. For this reason, I cannot understand why the 1020 cannot continue this trend and also have good corner sharpness.

AndyHWC, stopping down the lens with an aperture may fix this, but the only Nokia I know that had an a drop in aperture ring was the very old N86. Maybe Nokia has to simply add this feature back into the 1020 to resolve this.

Sep 1, 2013permalink

@Menneisyys

Is it possible that the color smearing may be due to the type of sensor technology. The use of BSI type sensors is known to have issues with colors bleeding in between pixels. Could this be the reason the Nokia 1020 applies an abundant amount of edge sharpening in order or mask this flaw?

Sep 1, 2013permalink

"Is it possible that the color smearing may be due to the type of sensor technology. The use of BSI type sensors is known to have issues with colors bleeding in between pixels. Could this be the reason the Nokia 1020 applies an abundant amount of edge sharpening in order or mask this flaw?"

Either way - it's not the lens' being soft towards the center (outside the outermost 10% region on the left/right), unlike what Petrogel has stated.

Sep 2, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Wear your glasses and look again !!!!!

Sep 2, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

When you said stated, you meant ..... United Stated ?

Sep 2, 2013permalink

Jon Holstein

@panoviews
That android comments sounds very fanboyitic.
I guess you phrased it wrong.
Cause if android tomorrow drops all the advantages you find on that platform... or if WP suddenly gains it all, why then would android be the decider.

Sep 13, 2013permalink

PEOPLE, PLEASE, DON'T FEED THE TROLL!
Menneisyys, you have good points there, but the response is so irritating that I really, really wish for a Troll Filter for dpreview

Sep 21, 2013permalink

siberstorm27

For less than half the price, you can get yourself a Lumia 920, which isn't that far behind in image quality, has the same OIS and night performance, has far better camera app speed, and won't have an unsightly camera hump. The fact that each individual pixel of the 41MP sensor isn't any bigger than your typical 13MP cell phone camera means you can't expect a drastic difference ebetween it and the other cell phone cameras out there. Resampling from a large pool of pixel data has its limitations, especially when so much of it is nothing but noise, and digital zoom is still digital zoom. It's a mild benefit that starts getting noisy and ugly halfway in. There will be more than a couple of new camera focused phones coming out in Sept, to rival or beat the Lumia 1020, while not having to be bogged down by Windows Phone or Nokia's archaic hardware.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

YiannisPP

" Bogged down by Windows Phone or Nokia's archaic hardware." What are you talking about? WP8 is a sleek and fast OS and is not bogging anyone down. As for "archaic hardware", I guess you're referring to the fact that it doesn't have a 4 or 8 core processor and a terabyte of RAM? Phones are not meant to simulate the expansion of the universe, nor the decay of the nuclear arsenal. Nokia 's hardware is as solid as they come and as fast as they need to be. In fact as an object that you carry with you (which is what is is), they are a hell of a lot more sturdy than the iPhones and the Samsungs. I have the Nokia 820 (WP8) for more than half a year now and it's a sleek machine that has never let me down. Moreover I've dropped it countless times and it barely acquired a scratch. Try dropping an S4 or iPhone on a hard surface. I wish someone was monitoring posts ilke yours which are effectively grossly misleading unsuspecting buyers...

Aug 31, 2013permalink

pavi1

Sorry but it is a great camera in a really bad smart phone

Aug 31, 2013permalink

YiannisPP

Sure thing dude, and the sun will set on the east tomorrow too. If you say so:)

Aug 31, 2013permalink

utg001

Windows Phone does not limit the camera, you have gone from an android/ios fan to a Windows hater have you noticed?

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Jon Holstein

siberstorm27
Which one is the best in low light without using flash of 920 and 1020 has probably not been properly tested. The 920 is heavier than 1020. And they have different OIS systems.
I bet the 1020 takes better low light images.

No, the digital zoom here is better than what you think of, when you think of digital zoom. It's mosly just a crop of the sensor, meaning that if you zoom in on the full resolution image you have almost the exact same quality.
So it's not crop-stretch, its simply crop.
With less pixels you could not do that crop, cause the details would not have been captured.

Compared to it's competitors, it apparently captures about as much details in a 5MP image as higher resolution images from others.
Why would you want higher resolution images that has no more details? Often that leads to larger file sizes, and that is just unecessary, or at least it's impratical when you look at the pictures as they have to be downsampled even more by your GPUchip,

Sep 13, 2013permalink

"So it's not crop-stretch, its simply crop."
crap

Sep 21, 2013permalink

waxwaine

Maybe not 41mp, but image stailization on sensor for sure yesss!!!

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Yavor

I think is pointless to show 5MP samples for 41MP camera. Or the logic is "you have 41MP, so you can take good 5MP photos".

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Lars Rehm

Sorry to disagree. It's the entire point. There's not much point in taking 41 MP pictures on a mobile device but the Nokia takes those 41MP to produce low-noise 5MP images and allow for high-quality digital zoom. Seems pretty clever to me.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

nawknai

No, the 41 MP sensor in this phone isn't so that you can take 41 MP photos. The entire point was that you can get better 5 MP photos from this camera than the 8 MP camera from an iPhone, a 13 MP photo from an S4, etc.

The ability to keep the 41 MP image from the camera is nice, but not really the point. It's not like the Nikon D800, where your high MP camera is meant for photographers who need 38 (?) MP.

Aug 31, 2013permalink

W5JCK

No, the whole point is really that Nokia is actually trying to pass a crappy 5 MP camera off as a 41 MP camera in order to boost sales. Nokia is a so so phone company living in the past, and they have never been known for cameras, and they've combined the two into a phone running one of the least popular phone OSes. Epic fail....

Aug 31, 2013permalink

Pall

...Nokia is a so so phone company living in the past, and they have never been known for cameras...very strange and inacurate comment. Nokia has been leader in mobile photography in more than ten years. N8, N95, 808PV to name a few.

Aug 31, 2013permalink