Not to mention getting one with one of the two recall issues- don't see the "masterpiece" part of the equation with the mount problems or strap lug failures- two issues that should have never been an issue. Then you add in the handling changes, plastic construction... yeah not seeing it.

Do either of you own a Z8? No! Thought not.

Nobody who has used or touched a Z8 can comment? So you have to buy one to comment lol
Even Alik Griffin in his blog post said the Z8 "Feels cheaper then a Z6"
I agree it feels cheap for a camera costing that much. Too much plastic

Agree, it's an amazing camera! The recalls were a headache but otherwise the Z8 has delivered in every way.

"and I don't care about the technical aspects of the image quality"

If that is so, you'd probably want to use the r5 because you can print larger and resolve a bit more detail.

If you “don't care about the technical aspects of the image quality” seems a strange thing to say about using a Sony A7rV.

Don't fret, the a9III will be along shortly and have bigger numbers while being smaller and lighter.

Any A9III will almost for sure be priced higher and have less resolution. The A9III will for sure be priced higher than the A9II, which is $4500. BTW the A9 also debuted at $4500. Both are 24 MP. Sony has been going up about $500 with each new generation and so any a9III will be about $5000. So a bigger price tag but lower MP.

The A9III will be mostly a marketing gimmick to show higher fps burst rate, when the use cases where that will be needed are very limited. But you will have less resolution and less video capabilities than the Z8, with the Z8 being lower priced.

It will be smaller/lighter but some prefer the larger, easier to hold and use Z8 body. The Z8 will still have the superior EVF without the inconsistencies of the Sony.

At this point you'd have to pay me $4000 to lug around a bigger and heavier camera with a not as good 600 zoom. Best of luck with your firmware update some time next year.

Not as good 600 zoom? You must be talking about Sony.

The Nikon 180-600 zoom is at least equal to the Sony 200-600, maybe better.

Of course overall Nikon has the far better lineup of super tele lenses, including their small and light PF lenses, and their super tele's with TC built in. Sony cannot even touch those.

And LOL on firmware updates. Sony A1 flagship users, the ones who spent $6500 on their camera, are still waiting and complaining about not getting some basic firmware updates to give that camera features on much cheaper cameras with lesser hardware.

There's a saying going around: what does Sony call a software update? A new camera!

Reilly: LOL. Still worried that Nikon has managed to deliver to the market something that Sony has not, and probably will not, at least in this price class?

You know it is OK if you admit that no matter how much you may like Sony that they are not always the best in everything in every way?

And I agree with what someone else wrote: "this Z8 makes the Sony A1 and A9 II look way overpriced."

@ wcan - I doubt it, the Z8 USB-C ports are apparently designed to receive power on one and communicate on the other

"I doubt it, the Z8 USB-C ports are apparently designed to receive power on one and communicate on the other"

It sounds that the Nikon put then USB-C ports, but split the wiring.
If so, then you can use a USB-C Y-splitter, where you put the two on camera and one to extension cable. As it doesn't matter that data and charge is put on both ports, as ports itself will not be wired to receive that and will so on ignore the data on power and power on data.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/uploads/articles/Fig1m11292018.png

So in this case, the Nikon had done that it has eliminated the other part so it supports either direction of connection, but doesn't just accept data or power.

@Mk82
Your description is not clear. What you posted is a diagram of the port wiring standard. That's not Z8 specific. Are you saying both ports have been wired the same in the Z8? If so, a Z8 user could test your theory by seeing if the camera can be charged through the data port.

@ marc petzold
After using the D850 for 5 years and a rented Z8 recently, I have to completely disagree.

1) build quality
Not at all. The Z8 is solid as a brick (a small brick at that, compared to my Z9).

2) Viewfinder (i do love that kind of bright, 100% all glass pentaprism OVF)
For years, I refused to consider a mirrorless camera because of the perceived better quality of the OVFs in my DSLRs. After using a rental Z7, I decided I could live with an EVF and purchased the Z9. My experience with the EVF has been fantastic. Those old fashioned "bright" OVFs are only bright in bright light. In early morning or late evening light or stage lighting, the EVF is far better in that it is brighter and shows the actual exposure you will be getting in your image.

3) RAW image quality
No difference at all, except my Z lenses are noticeably better than my F lenses.

@TRU
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” ― Ansel Adams

A Z8 wouldn't make my compositions a single bit better, it would be exactly the same, than with any other gear, i am using. Gear doesn't (ex)change creative vision, but only your mindset, does.

@Ken
Every EVF does work into a very specific, given color space, which is not what your very own naked eyes does see, or through a all glass pentaprism OVF. And it's a rumor, like you spreading here, OVFs are only good into bright daylight. I've done many night photography shots via tripod as night photography and my DSLRs, and it's totally fine. I know that 3.68 mill. dot EVF since the Z6...it's okay, not a match for a fine OVF.

Although, those EVFs into my gear have CAs, grain (due amplification of the signal) noise, and edge/barrel distortions...horses for courses, but an EVF is not a single bit better for my taste - into fact, it's way worse for my delicate eyes, always.

Good light.

marc: I agree with you about the importance of the photographer over the gear...but that's not what your initial post was about.

Also have you used a Z8 or Z9? Because those EVF's are on another level than any other on the market due to the speed of the stacked sensor and their brightness. They may not convert you from an OVF but I guarantee you that you would find them closer to an OVF than any EVF you have tried yet.

TRU, I see what you are doing here, subliminally. :-)
It was only about the fact that according to DPR 1:1 comparison the D850 is superior to the Z8 in 3 small points - and you make it a personal matter (!) and in this sense, I should test a Z8/Z9, which has absolutely nothing to do with my post before.

I said at the beginning, I know the Nikon 3.68 mill dot EVF, and it is good, and the Z8&Z9 combo is much better into this regard, as evolution from the original, 2018 EVF inside the Z6 and Z7.

I'd just like to add this: if one can't create good images with a Nikon F60 and D40, one simply can't do it with any other camera, which is true. In hindsight, you can't accept simply, that other ppl do have a different opinion, and PoV hereby, and not everybody does need, or want a EVF, despite they're all good into 2023 & beyond.

I am out of this topic, which you captured for your own purpose, and subliminally just fishing for likes, no hard feelings.

Have a nice Sunday, good light.

There are hardly any cameras made in recent years that can't claim something that is a "bit better" than another which is why you have to look at a complete comparison and then cross reference your priorities. The Z8 is better than the D850 in many ways but only you can decide if the OVF (for example) is more important than a list of other Z8 advantages.

To this over and overly repeated claim:
"the EVF is far better in that it is brighter and shows the actual exposure you will be getting in your image."

No it doesn't, you'd need the full computing power of a workstation which would drain camera batteries in minutes. The EVF shows an extremely downsampled preview where the exposure is within a certain parameter.
Many users prefer that because they lack the experience to translate what they see with their eye into camera settings on the fly. But if you have that skill EVFs take it away again because of the huge drawback they can't overcome by principle:
They are limited to a colour space, once the values hit 255, 255, 255 or 0, 0, 0 there is no more information at al - to avoid that they compress even more. While the human eye still sees exact gradients in much more extreme contrasts which allows you to set correct exposure and flash amount in advance. With an EVF that's close to impossible.

" I will say that the Nikon Z9/Z8 EVF is the closest thing to an OVF that I've encountered so far...it's very impressive."

The EVF vs OVF has never been about do you see as well as with naked eye. In other words, is the viewfinder usable like a binoculars or monocular.
You are not to use the camera as a observation tool, but as capture tool.
So lower definition is not a weakness at all, your job is to release shutter and camera sensor will record it as good as it can regardless did you look it through OVF or not.

The EVF benefits are that you can look straight to bright light sources (sun or welding arc) safely and see exactly how the camera will capture the shot.
You can instantly see what is your exposure, and how to react to it.
You can see instantly the colors, the white balance.
You can zoom in to details (macro or telephoto work) to really focus to tiny detail action.
You can see lot of extra information.
And always have right framing visible.

Enjoying 12+ years now....

marc petzold
Doesn't sound like you do much night photography, especially from the way you worded that. Try astrophotography, or really dark conditions. OVF are great for day use (I love them) but this is a fools argument.

I spent years shooting weddings with flash and without it depending on what I was going for. And yes...I agree. For portraits and flash I still prefer OVF. I do much less of that these days. Shooting manual mode and for the most part, maintaining settings with a fast prime to maintain background exposure consistency was key for me. Either TTL or completely manual. Either way...I'd still say at ultra low light even if you need flash ML is better and I'm a dyed in the wool OVF fan.

To that I agree too, if it's pitch black and you see nothing... I use live view on my DSLRs. I still remember my first shot I did like this and how amazed I was that the limits of photography just got pushed further.

Granted yes. But my other point is, the z8/9 "LV" is so much better than any dslr in the dark. I can compose in pitch black with only starlight without zero test shots. Starlight view is like night vision.

So anyhow, tool to task. I still love OVF.

Try using the viewfinder in extremely low light and then see which is better

Build quality? In what way? Consider the Z8 has no moving parts aside from buttons. There is no mirror or shutter or prism. The Z8 should in theory be far more durable and reliable. Further the lack of shutter means there is no worry of shutter life (how many bodies ever, ever fire anywhere close to their shutter limits anyway though).

Body quality is important. Not sure if you gave your d700 a very hard life or whatever but it was one of the best. D810 and d850 too. Z 8 seems great to me fine. It's only with time will we know.

D850 vs Z8 durability: So the belief is the moving parts of the D850 won't factor in to its durability because the D700 body fell apart, therefore the Z8, which is made of magnesium and carbon fibre and weather sealed to the same degree as the Z9, despite not have any moving parts, may fall apart like the D700. Without any history of its durability, Makes perfect sense.

I cannot understand why some people, against measurable, verifiable facts and against the laws of physics, insist on pushing their subjective preferences.
Modernity unfortunately rarely means progress. Is it worth giving up a better camera just to have a more fashionable one?
I prefer pentaprism. There is no lag and it reproduces reality 100%. Someone likes an electronic viewfinder? OK, his right, why not. I admit, that if it is dark someones inexperienced may prefer a distorted, brightened image of the screen. Of course, any DSLR can use a LV with the same result. But why EVF enthusiasts can't admit that no matter how great the screen, according to the laws of physics the digital image MUST be inferior to the analogue one, and there MUST be a delay due to signal processing compared to light reflection?
The superiority of mirrorless cameras was supposed to be that they are smaller and lighter. They have no other advantage. How much does the Z8 weigh? How much does the d850 weigh...?

You just call out the people you don’t agree with. It’s okay. But you post almost as much as he did, so maybe you should leave him alone. (By the way, this is my third comment. And likely my last.)

In any case, investing in knowledge remains the best investment.

Okay, yeah but what about you just detail the "very very basic things" the Z8 can't do? Because I'm trying to find what it is, and besides maybe the lack of a fully articulable screen I don't see it...

ModelA1 seems to be on a mission against the Z8 for some reason. And the Z8 does not cost $5000 US but $4000.

He seems to be worried that the Z8 is actually superior to the A7RV and can't accept that.

BTW, you said you were going to buy any new A9III. That camera will probably cost $5000 US and may not have that same flip out design of the A7R V. What will you say then? Are you going to use its super high burst rate on selfies? :)

Model A1 has a lot of spare typing time on his hands...

I see that we have another Sony fb in the house...

He lost me at “millionaires”. US$5(4)K isn’t donut money. However, this camera is within reach of many professionals and dedicated hobbiests willing to prioritize cameras over other discretionary purchases.

$5000 cameras are very expensive and you can't buy them like a donut. Not sure how the two are related. Does it matter if my donut is chocolate or vanilla? I thought a $5000 camera was a $5000 camera? This is like say a "heavy 5lbs". It is what it is. To one pocket book, it is nothing, while another it will be beyond reach. To the photographer who needs the tool, it is the price of doing business. I also didn't realize that cameras now came with preloaded instructions on how to take pictures..." it does not know how to do very very simple and very common things these days even on very high-end or low-end Cameras." I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but clearly the Z8 is incredibly capable. I had great success at a recent wedding and I'm sure any capable photographer can tell the camera what to do, rather than expecting the camera to "know how to do".

Is a camera cheap or expensive? It is neither. It costs what it costs. So is it an expensive $5000 or a cheap $5000? Neither. A $10k Leica vs. a $500 P&S? They cost what they cost. I have taken my Z8 many places. It seems quite capable of being taken anywhere. It performs exactly as the menu setups and performance explanations indicate. I'm not sure how this would be so different from any other camera?

Do you really think the Z8 is a camera you're meant to take selfies with?

It's a high end camera made for professionals, I doubt you'd use it for casual use on vacation. At any rate, that's not what that camera was made for.

Yeah, I don't get the OP's obsession with taking selfies with these type of cameras.

Then maybe you shouldn't begin by lying in your bad faith comments.

"A year and a half ago, I took the Z9 in hand for a weekend and all the criticisms were well founded."

Thanks for that extensive review of the camera. Job well done.

Sure, Z8 owners care about "selfies on vacation" and that's why I'll bet you most of them own an iPhone or Samsung phone. Now, the number of Z8 owners that care about using their Z8 for "selfies on vacation" is probably less than 5% and the number that would buy a Z8 and then learn the capabilities of the LCD screen and then be angry at the retailer if they couldn't return it is 1 out of (enter total Z8 buyers here).

"ModelA1", no bias there for sure. It's like calling yourself Jesus and claiming only Christians have religion. "I don't care about YouTubers..." Why? This also makes no sense. Many of the authors of the reviews on DPreview post significant content elements to YouTube. Reports and personal experience also point out that resolution of the viewfinder on its own, doesn't equate to the quality of the experience in viewing. The so-called high resolution of the a7RV viewfinder does this little trick of dropping.. when.. at time of focus. A very clever and incredibly frustrating trick. The Z8 and Z9 are much faster, more responsive and don't suffer this drop of res. at time of focus. In any case, Sony has had the luxury of being first out of the gate with mirrorless lenses and now it shows. Many haven't been updated in years and Nikon Z lenses easily surpass the performance of many Sony lenses AND are a lot cheaper. Blessings ModelA1. A new God has risen.

That is a shame. I always patronize my local camera shop and find them wonderful. What won me over many years ago is that they not only had all of the best gear from the finest brands, but that they would let me try anything out and I could stick around for as long as I wanted.

Thats crappy. Like others have said they are wasting their biggest advantage over online shopping.

As far as Z6 I found the size just about perfect with a L bracket added. Its a little short without.

the point of a local store is for us to try them... But if you used the d750, the Z8 is closer to that size and weight than the d850. For long shooting I prefer the z8 over the z7ii smaller bodies. For travel i would prefer the smaller z7ii body. For hiking I prefer my m4/3 panny gx850 with the kit zoom. Grant I haven't hike as much this year. The z6/7ii battery grip is a good size and you can take it on/off. Too bady it isn't as easy as the d750 battery grip design to remove. Currently the z30 is my walkaround camera in my bag. Cheap and I don't have too worry if I lose it like the z8. Got a used sigma f mount 18-35 f1.8 for 340.

I went to my local Best Buy and spoke to a clerk. He was not from the camera department and had no camera knowledge. He wasn't sure he was allowed to unbox it but went with the flow and did. Wow! What a beautiful camera! The ideal form factor for a smooth transition from my DSLRs. I think Nikon hit it out of the park. Now it just comes down to price (ouch) and committing to the evf. I don't have to decide anything now as my photography goes into hibernation during Tulsa's miserable winter months.

"I said, "Definitely, I feel you have too many dopes, D."

The screen on the A7RV and the Z8 are literally the same in size, virtually the same resolution with Nikon have a very slight edge, even in how they flip out. I don't know how anyone can assert that the A7RV screen is in any way better.

Most people tend to prefer Nikon ergonomics in general over Sony, but YMMV. But there is no way one can say that the ergonomics of the Sony are better.

In fact in general Sony is probably the worst in term of ergonomics, menus, etc.

Also the EVF on the Z9/Z8 is superior to anything Sony offers. Sure Sony on paper offers more resolution, but you mostly get that when reviewing photos. When shooting, that's a different story, and it varies according to how the camera is being used. With the Nikon you get the closest thing to an OVF. It's really impressive.

But again YMMV.

In 2023, the Z8 doesn't let you take just a simple selfie, the Sony A7RV does. The remote screen allows me not to use an additional screen and not to take a cage. I use my ECM-B1M to maintain digital processing Sound recording thanks to the multimedia shoe. These are just common experiences we have during the holidays.
I took very nice photos with the Nikon Z8 during the day, but I missed the 61 mpx of the A7RV in landscape and portrait because I shoot in 4/3 and 1X1 with a definition >= on the Nikon Z8.
I'm saying simple things: the Z8 has unworthy autonomy, a screen with limited use, but above all a weight and bulk Camera.
No point selling me the Z8, I've really tested it, it just doesn't suit me.

All the issues you have with the camera, from its weight to its lack of a flip screen to its mp count, were all well known before you bought the camera. So you are criticizing the camera for performing exactly as advertised.

The man never touched the Z8, and probably the A1. He's full of BS.

Battery life has been excellent for me. I strongly prefer the z8/9 articulating screen for composition as oppose to a flip out selfie screen (lol ridiculous on a pro camera). How many shots or videos are you getting?

Are you using BT to sync 2-4k copies automagically in the background to phone and provide gps?

You shot selfies with the A1? 61mp selfies?

We all know that for the same money the Z8 overall has more capabilities than the A7R V. That doesn’t make the Sony a bad camera but just not quite up to a Z8. The Z8 far exceeds the Sony in terms of video, the fast sensor speed of the stacked sensor, burst rate, EVF, etc.

But it always bears repeating:

"Puritanism:  The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.  H. L. Mencken, 1917"
"Sonyfanism:  The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy with other equipment.  Roger Cicala, 2018"

I've been shooting the Z8 for 3 months and have not had any of the complaints you do. Battery life has been quite reasonable (I think I've had to change batteries during a day of shooting exactly once). I far, FAR prefer the ergonomics to Sony bodies. I shot Sony for over 5 years, and the Z8 feels a LOT better to me in the hand and I also much prefer the control layout. And I absolutely love the rear screen.

Who in hell buys a body like the Z8 to shoot selfies?

@Thoughts R Us

"Nikon have a very slight edge, even in how they flip out. I don't know how anyone can assert that the A7RV screen is in any way better."

The Sony has more angles of articulation than the Nikon screen - I'm surprised you don't know that - or perhaps you've forgotten? It has all the articulation of the Nikon screen on the lens axis, plus can also flip out sideways which the Nikon can't do, that's why it's better.

As for your attempt to damn the A7rV with faint praise; "It's not a bad camera" It's hard to think of a more ridiculous and partisan statement. Perhaps take a look at Chris and Jordan's comparison video on the A7rV and the Z8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv3GHfOl3sg

The A7rV won 5 of the 7 categories including; Design and Handling, Displays, Autofocus, Lens selection and IQ. The Z8 won two; Video and Burst Shooting.

RubberDials: I have to apologize for my awkward wording.

I wrote "he screen on the A7RV and the Z8 are literally the same in size, virtually the same resolution with Nikon have a very slight edge, even in how they flip out."

What I meant was that the Nikon has a very slight edge in resolution, and that otherwise the screens are very similar, even in how they flip out.

As to Chris and Jordan, well, that is one opinion. Others have disagreed with them and I certainly reserve the right to do so. Last I checked their opinions were not unimpeachable. They are flawed people like the rest of us with their own biases, again like the rest of us. So who really cares?

@Rubber Dials
Yet the Z8 won the overall review... Hmmm

@Thoughts R Us

"What I meant was that the Nikon has a very slight edge in resolution"

Actually the A7rV has the higher resolution - 2,100,000 dots versus the Nikon's 2,086,960.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7rv-review/2
https://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/slrs/nikon_z8/specifications

"and that otherwise the screens are very similar, even in how they flip out."

The screens don't flip out in the same way either. Both tilt on the lens axis, but the Nikon also tilts 30º left and right, whereas the Sony does 180º, meaning it can face the subject. It's obviously the better screen.

As for Chris and Jordan, the point is they are able to make genuine comparative judgements having used both cameras. Chris tested the A7rV and the Z8 is both preproduction and production body form.

Sorry, RD but you have it reversed. Check B&H:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1765622-REG/nikon_z8_mirrorless_camera.html/specs

Nikon Z8: 2,100,000 Dot

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1731389-REG/sony_alpha_camera.html/specs?sts=pi

Sony A7RV: 2,095,104 Dot

Of course it doesn't make any real world difference but since you were determined to prove a point I now have proved you wrong.

BTW RD I looked up that review by Chris/Jordan and this is their actual conclusion, which you conveniently omitted:

"The Nikon Z8 is easily the more versatile choice overall and in many ways is a better purchase for the majority of photographers. The Sony a7R V is an excellent choice for landscape photographers and studio shooters, and its autofocus capabilities are still unparalleled. However, the Nikon Z8 can absolutely handle the above situations and still go well beyond the Sony when shooting sports, action, or wildlife. It’s also a superior video platform to the Sony a7R V, and indeed competes with some of the best mirrorless hybrids available.

It’s hard not to recommend the Nikon Z8 to anybody at its price range, and I can’t think of a photographic situation that it wouldn’t handle with aplomb."

https://petapixel.com/2023/07/01/sony-a7r-v-vs-nikon-z8-our-two-favorite-full-frame-cameras-duke-it-out/

Seems like you once again were wrong.

You could at least hide your bias. I purchased and returned an A7RV (and own an A7Riii) and purchased a Z8. The Z8 is undeniably larger than both and the A7RV ergonomics were vastly superior to the A7Riii. But while the rear screen of the A7RV is more flexible, it is always criticized for being lower resolution (it just doesn't look as good). The Z8 also offers 20 fps full raw vs. 7-8 fps full raw on the Sony, it has no rolling shutter vs. unusable rolling shutter on the Sony (due to one of the slowest sensors in the industry). I prefer the C1/C2/C3 buttons on the Sony, but I'm learning to like the Nikon. I also like the more compact lenses on the Sony... I'm trying to be fair and honest. Telling me you could tell the difference between 61 & 45 mp is unrealistic. I just found the noise in the A7RV much worse than the A7RIII and the Z8.

No one is asking you to "like this camera". Personally, I find the viewfinder of the Z8 much better than the Sony. Further, I haven't had any problem with its battery life even when using it side by side with a Sony. In the end, there isn't a prosumer camera on the market today that isn't capable of serving nearly every photographic need.

CONTD.

Sony has staked it's claim on resolution and the A7rVI when it comes in a few years is unlikely to be less than 60MP, meaning it will once again be more of a stills camera than a hybrid one.

RubberDials, I think the Zf in a Z6-style body (with some improvements) would be exactly the upgrade path Z6 users would want: Z9-like AF in their Z6 body. The focus centred IBIS would be very welcome as well.

AkinaC: once you enter the used market, we can all find other used models that sell for less and start a whole new round of competition.

As to the R5 II, some rumors have it going to a stacked sensor.

I only bring up the A7R V because it is in the same price category. Of course the brands differentiate their models in somewhat different ways, but the point is that for an all around camera in this price point that the Z8 right now seems to be king. That Sony chooses different product segmentation doesn't matter to the consumer, only what is available.

But right now in the world of Sony, if you want it all...high resolution, super fast AF, little rolling shutter due to stacked sensor, 8K video and other high end video features, etc...you have to go all the way up to their $6500 A1. That makes the Z8 look like a real bargain.

Concerning the Sony A1, I would like to believe you. I don't own it and for the same price, I was able to finally buy the Z8 (and the big S 24-70mm F2.8) when it became available. The A1 price is disproportionate.
On the other hand, regarding the rear screen then this is not true. I prefer the screen of my A7RV and with its long battery life and its size, that's what I missed the most :(
With my A7RV and my GM 35, I go down to 1/4s handheld, I have 90% sharp photos. With the Nikon Z8 and the adapter, only 30% :(
With the Zoom, still at the 35mm focal length, it's a maximum of 1/8s with 50% sharp photos. Afterwards, it's true that I didn't have stabilized lenses, just the zoom, so I'm willing to believe you too.
Since the Nikon experience, I come back to simpler, lighter and more practical things: A7RV while waiting for the future A9III to complete it and two recent and light purchases: the G 20-70mm F4 and the 70-200mm F4 macro :)

The screen on the A7RV and the on the Z8 are the same size: 3.2 inches. They even have almost identical resolution with the Nikon technically a bit more.

IBIS on the Nikon should be at least equal to or better than the Sony; as many comment there are many tests out there confirming that.

AF on the Nikon should equal or better the Sony. Perhaps some of it is simply not understanding how to use the Nikon AF system. It also works somewhat differently than the Nikon DSLR system.

I have the 24-70 f2.8 S and the Z9, and the focus never misses, it's very quick to AF, and it produces amazing photos. In fact it's the finest 24-70 f2.8 I've ever used and I've pretty much tried them all.

Either way be happy with what you have. The way I view it is that you are having to buy 2 cameras...the A7RV and if it happens, the A9III to get the performance of a single Z8.

It is a bit funny to talk about overheating when coming from Sony A7RV a camera notorious for its overheating.

Model A1 is on a mission, don't stand in his way!

You didn't get it, but the IBIS doesn't work with its full potential when using adapted lenses.

My Sony/Nikon experience was a mirror image of yours.

I bought a Sony A1 at the same time I bought a Nikon Z9. I was disappointed with the Sony, did not like handling it and was never terribly happy with image quality.

I got rid of the Sony and kept the Z9, but, and here is where you and I differ - I did not go to the Sony forum and dump on the A1.

Have a happy day.

Who would buy a Z8 and shoot jpeg?

Look at least they photographed people this time, not just plants and empty streets.

A Z7 III, whatever it turns out to be, will probably be quite different from the Z8, spec- and performance-wise. Since the Z8 already is almost a Z9 in a smaller package, I think it's too much to hope for almost a Z9 in an even smaller package.

I would be thrilled if the Z7iii offered the same tech advances as the Zf (and the articulated screen please) with the same sensor, body, and controls as the Z7i/ii. A 61MP sensor is a "meh" for me; I don't want more pixels but I won't turn them down either.

@Thoughts R Us

Are you really sure? Have you looked, for instance, through a 9.44M dot EVF, with a 0.9x magnification, and then considered it was bad? :)

I’m happy to admit, while Nikon was the pioneer, Canon swiped the floor with their full frame offerings. I shot Canon until they totally failed me to support and kept me updated on their pro bodies failing (and I was a CPS memeber, btw.) switched to Nikon just because. While I rarely used the D850 and lenses, shooting more MF kit these days, I switched to SONY Mirrorless for work, but once Nikon joined the fray, I was exited and only when the shipped the Z9 I was fully on board. The lenses are brilliant, just the Z6/7 and Mark II AF didn’t cut it for me . I’m so happy with the ciurrent setup, I just wish 16 capture with wider contrast range would become a priority for the shots that I can’t control the contrast.

someone forgot about the D850

and the D800.

and the D3X which was crazy expensive but also had the best FF IQ at time of release.

The Nikon D850 launched in August of 2017 for $3300. That equates to $4057 in today's US dollars. So the price is virtually equal adjusted for inflation.

The Nikon pricing is really amazing given what you get.

"...It saves D850 users from having to buy a video camera"? Really being the owner of a d850 I MUST buy a video camera ? Why? Is it a compulsion that a photographer has to shoot video ? Why?
I have a d850 and have not noticed any AF problems. So why would I want to change camera to have better AF if I have an excellent one (it really has never let me down - okay, a few shots out of tens of thousands) ?
And please don't forget what an SLR user ALWAYS loses by changing to a mirrorless: viewfinder lag. ALWAYS. It's the laws of physics.
Sorry, but I don't see any advantage compared to the d850. For me the important thing is the quality of the photos, there is no progression in that. So why should I change? Advertising texts are not enough motivation for me, I need a real quality improvement.

@MarTin I also like vintage cameras very much

Not buying saves 100%.

@rawdinal
I would give you ten likes if I could :)

@mar tin.... I didn't think I had to preface this but, yes, if you don't need a video camera, the D850 is just fine. If you never use live view, then the D850 is just fine. And here is the preface... If you need video capabilities.... If you often require the flexibility in composing low to the ground, or above your head and back to viewfinder, then the Z8 AF experience is incomparable to the D850. It's seamless. The D850 as great as it is, is a totally different personality in live view; glaciers melt faster than it autofocuses. And Z8 viewfinder lag? It's negligible. What the viewfinder offers is a way to review images in bright/high contrast situations where your have to cup the rear LCD or use your body to block the sun. But if you're happy woth the D850, keep it. It's a great camera. For those that want a more flexible experience in a wide variety of situations and/or need a true hybrid camera for work or leisure, the Z8 is is a huge leap over the D850.

Z8 is larger than Z6, enough to make it more comfortable for me to hold, but not as much as to not fit in the same bags/inserts I’ve been using with Z6.

Rumors suggest the release of the Sony A9III. If true it will amount to a camera that will cost about $5000 but will be a lower resolution A1. It may offer even faster maximum burst rates that few will need or use, but will make for a marketing spec.

Downplaying the A9III as a marketing ploy already.

You said you were trying to be better.
You are failing.

@MikeRan
While I think your point is a fair one it is hardly a major blip. There are others far worse out there….🤔

“You said you were trying to be better.
You are failing.”

He never was. Look at his comment from a few days ago about the EVF about A1. He dings Sony because the EVF of the resolution of A1 drops at certain scenarios (even though the “lowest” resolution is still higher than the competitors products)

“While I think your point is a fair one it is hardly a major blip. There are others far worse out there….”

The problem is that he is the one who complains about anti-Canon (yes, I know he uses Nikon now) trolling while he is one of the biggest anti-Sony propagandist out there.

What you find heavy is not what most of us find heavy. Please qualify “for me”. Outside of exercise, the more you use something that is “heavy” the more your body adapts and gets used to the weight. The difference in weight between the Z8 and the a7RV is less than the volume of your morning trip to the washroom. It’s not heavy.

a: What if you don't need an update? I certainly don't. I've got more bifs than I can handle.
b: The Z9 firmware update has somehow been rolled onto the Z8 by some of the more excitable punters well in advance of its existence.

"We've seen widespread discussion that the bird detection feature built into animal detection AF isn't as effective for birding as you might hope: something Nikon says it will address in a firmware update in 2024."

Well, by all means Nikon, bring it on.

@ m_black, it's not just the extra weight and bulk that would cause me not to return to the Nikon fold, it's a whole laundry list of features with which I shall not further upset the fans :^)

It's funny...Sony users don't need software updates because they already have "all that they can handle"...but Nikon users can't feel the same way?

See this is the double standard some Sony users give us. When Sony leaves something out, well, that's OK because we have so much already. When another company leaves something out that somehow is supposed to negate all of its other strong points.

It's also funny because many Sony users are complaining about the lack of software updates. The A1 and A7SIII are both very strong video devices and yet Sony won't give them the focus breathing compensation or the animal eye AF in video, that would go really nice with those cameras.

What’s really great is how the IQ from the 45mp Nikon sensor is indistinguishable from the 61 MP sensor mentioned….😊

BTW what does Sony call a software update? A new camera!

It weighs 910g only. Compare it to a Nikon D-digit body, and it will feel like a feather :)

Reilly Diefenbach - I thought you used Sony exclusively.

@Reilly... In a Nikon review, yet another unsolicited "my Sony is better" comment. The fans don't care about your list. They're tired of Sony fans injecting themselves into every conversation that isn't about Sony. When Sony announces new camera bodies, I am actually genuinely happy for the Sony crowd, but I would never enter the conversation with "ya but the ergonomics are still horrid unlike Nikon's" or "the EVF is only high resolution when reviewing images, not when, you know, you're actually shooting". Or, "that's great about the lossless compressed firmware update, Nikon has had that for at least 15 years, Sony users should rejoice like it's a novel feature". To each their own. Perceptions on weight are 100% subjective. And your laundry list obviously doesn't matter for Nikon shooters because they weren't enough to entice current Nikon users to switch. So just leave it. Your reasons are your reasons. I respect that much.

Yes, of course! Same for the Sony a7R V and IV, they have very slow-reading sensors...

On the other hand, Canon nailed it with the R5 having a great readout speed for a non-stacked sensor that is so high-res (45 MP).

The simplest way to think about it is that, as a camera with a mechanical shutter, the Z7/ii have readout speeds of cameras with a mechanical shutter. I imagine the D850+has similar readout speed. Best to use these camera with electronic first-curtain shutter to avoid blur caused by the all-electronic shutter.

The Z8 has readout speed typical of the modern stacked sensors.

Canon's market share is still more than Sony+Nikon+Olympus+Panasonic+.....

@turke

You do know that Canon has a market share more than Nikon and Sony combined.

This is a great camera but no need to get overhyped. Canon also makes and will make great cameras.

I care very little about market share.
For me, what matters more is the performance of a camera.

These brand comparisons are only interesting for people starting from scratch. Switching brands is not done easily, especially for a pro.

It's not that big a deal to switch systems. It's easy to sell nice camera gear for good prices on eBay, facebook, etc.

I'm not really bothered in market share, but I feel that Nikon is perfectly posed against Sony right now which the across-the-range competition hopefully benefits us consumers. And I also don't agree that we won't see a camera war like the past, I think we absolutely will except this time, it's mostly software with a bit of stacked sensors here and there.

Canon I see make good cameras, it's stupid to deny that, but I don't feel like their whole range is fully fleshed out yet.

Nobody knows anything about market shares... What is obvious is that you have much more lenses available (also from third party lens producers) for Sony than for Canon... The new Canon RF 10-20mm looks impressive tho...

Keep in mind that every lens for Sony can be used on Nikon Z bodies with the adaptor. So that Nikon actually has more mirrorless lenses available than either Sony or Canon.

As for Canon, they may have less RF lenses available but they have some real winners, and as noted some unique ones like the new 10-20. But with Canon you can use their extensive EF mount catalog easily with their adaptor. So the lens selection is actually pretty good.

And really how many lenses does one buy?

I have like 60 lenses :D ...but mostly vintage... "only" 10 modern mirrorless lenses...

@ottonis

Did you miss your Math class when you were a kid? Sony is overcharging for their a1 than Nikon Z8 by 62.5%. That's a HUGE difference for a similar camera.

Besides, the bigger size is actually a Pro not a Con over the a1. These tools are made for average built adults not kids.

@Tweets_Core
You really don't know that. It's easy to say somethings overpriced but you don't know the amount of research or which components went into a camera. You just very conveniently compare two figures that suit your point. I doubt Sony wants to price itself out of the market. Remember when they sold the PS3 below cost price just to sell units?

The point is that the A1 is priced significantly higher than the Z8. Consumers don't care about development costs and any other rationale, they care about what they pay.

When someone mentions the A1 as the most direct Sony competitor to the Z8, that's a huge compliment to the Z8. The Z8 is pretty much equal in terms of stills photography, way more capable in terms of video, is in the sweet spot in terms of size, has better EVF, etc. All of this for $2500 less than the A1. The A1 does seem overpriced relative to the market now.

What is funny is that Sony promoters constantly complain about any new product pricing from Canon/Nikon but then make great excuses for Sony pricing that is even higher. All of a sudden one needs to understand nuance and detail and understand what goes into making a product when it involves Sony, but not other companies. LOL.

I really don't see any controversy here. Nobody denied that Z8 would be attractive to non-Nikonians just as well. I only stated that the Z8 is a "no-brainer" for those who are already in the Nikon ecosystem. It's a bargain.

And yes, the A1 is more than 50% more expensive compared to the Z8, but only marginally more capable - which was entirely my point.

Compared feature by feature, the Z8 is so close to the A1 that the >50% price gap just seems unjustified.

There are probably two features the A1 has that might be worth the high price to some pro photographers (the Lan tethering port) and to the group of frail or hiking people that are happy for every inch and every ounce cut from the camera body. And there's no denying that the A1 is substantially more compact and lighter.

So, there's that.

It really depends on where you’re are purchasing said camera. The Z8 here in Australia is an eye watering $7k this doesn’t appear to be solely attributed to the weak Aussie dollar….

Current AU pricing

Nikon z8 $7k
Sony A1 is $7.4k
Canon R3 is $7.5
Sony A7RV is $4.5k
Fuji GFX50sii with 35-70 $6.7k
Canon R5 $5k
Leica SL2-S 8.3k

Maybe one shouldn't forget that the a1 is nearly 3 years old. When the a1 Mk II comes, Sony will probably still offer the a1 Mk I but at a much lower price. Sony mostly never reduces prices without having a successor to offer. And the a1 Mk II in turn will be much more capable, that's the way this game goes - if a product works for you don't wait for a better one, unless it's too expensive for you, in which case you can wait for the successor before buying.