Nikon D780 Review

Nah, not likely. The optical finder option is still a huge asset, plus, not having to use an adapter for F mount glass, also an asset.

If the D780 doesn't sell as well as the D750 its more about the fact that it lacks a pop up flash and battery grip option- as well as the timing of the market release.

Very unlikely the Z mount will make that much of an effect, but I get where your thinking is. Z5 is a pretty good value for the dollar, but its just not that simple.

7 months agopermalink

Panachromic

If it only had the IBIS, i would order one right now :(

10 months agopermalink

Maxxum Fan

You're right dude big mistake leaving it out, but so was leaving the grip contacts out!

8 months agopermalink

4sofnature

The lack of joystick is unacceptable for a FF DSLR at this price point in 2020.

11 months agopermalink

monte12345

losing the vertical grip and and accompanying extra battery will present some difficulty for those using this camera for Video. Because Video is a battery hog and one lonely little battery just isn't enough for someone using this camera to record video at many Weddings.

Now, perhaps the USB port can be used to provide power to the camera via a belt USB battery for recording video when the battery is depleted but we don't know that because DPreview completely glossed over the lack of any provision for a secondary power source carried on the camera.

DP review really dropped the ball on this and they should be hanging their heads in shame. While they may not wish to offend Nikon by pointing out a major fault they need to realize that ignoring something like this does the readers a dis-service.

I am also disappointed in Nikon. I was finding the D780 very interesting until I saw the lack of a provision for the MB-16.

11 months ago*permalink

Per Inge Oestmoen

Where is the vertical grip with controls for vertical shooting?

Does Nikon believe that every Nikon shooter only uses the camera in the horizontal position? Of course not. So why does Nikon launch a camera with no option for a vertical grip with release button for shooting in the vertical position?

Please tell Nikon that this was a major mistake.

11 months agopermalink

Radek Tezaur

You shoot the charts handheld, without a mirror lock up? Seriously?

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Preferably at night while using a crosstrainer.

11 months agopermalink

Macromind

From your comparison with the Z6 and evaluation I do not see how you can find the Z6 only 2 overall points higher or the D780 2 points less. After 3.0 firmware addition to the Z6/7 your evaluation of overall score needs to reflect the much needed improvements. After all the D780 is just a mirrored Z6 without the use of the fantastic Z series lenses. The Z's can adapt to the f lenses, but the D780 is stuck with the f lenses. Smaller, quieter, adaptable, and the future of DSLR, the Z6/7.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Macromind:

There are big limitations on F lens use on a Z body.

The Z line isn't a DSLR line.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

LiOm Photography

@howboutraw what limitations are those??

Mar 27, 2020permalink

LiOm:

So lenses with AF won't AF.

There are aperture control limits for some lenses. You'll be setting your own aperture from the lens.

The F to Z adapter is not perfect and universal.

Mar 27, 2020permalink

Unfortunately none of the futuristic mirrorless cameras have an optical viewfinder. For some people this might be a reason why they prefer a DSLR.

11 months agopermalink

Ixoye

Nice camera, but there are more important things to spend money on in times of crisis.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Snapper2013

Like what?

Mar 26, 2020permalink

jackspra

A flash.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Ixoye

Hookers...

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Petka

Bourbon...

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Ramon767

I spend my money on drugs and hookers. I waste the rest.

Mar 27, 2020permalink

Jos12

Can anybody explain what is een rolling shutter?

Mar 26, 2020permalink

It happens when you drop your camera I guess.

11 months agopermalink

Only down hills David :)

7 months agopermalink

Amitava Ghoshal

Hi Rishi,
Its not clear what is meant by "and no risk of shutter-induced shake". Mirrorless cameras do not have mechanical shutter? Or you meant to say shake due to mirror movement. Please clarify.

Regards

Mar 26, 2020permalink

preferredfault

To be honest, my 5DMK1 puts out better IQ than what I'm seeing in these JPG's.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Even my old 6D does a decent enough job.

11 months agopermalink

6D is a fantastic camera, can hold up just fine to modern cameras.

7 months agopermalink

Mariano Pacifico

Should I spend Trump CARE stimulus check on D780?

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Unless you need it (or a replacement camera), no. Otherwise I would save your stimulus check.

Mar 26, 2020*permalink

Ramon767

Is a stimulus check socialism?

Mar 27, 2020permalink

Those who didn't file a return in 2018 or 2019 won't get one so you have to pay into the system to get one as long as you qualify (ie. don't make too much money to a point where it disqualifies you), so yeah probably. HOwever, I think they should have added a few more tiers ($50,000 would get $600, and under $25,000 would get only $300). While it does pro-rate after $75,000 I think it's only fair that those who paid in less, get less back in return--maybe that was in there, and maybe I missed it--but from my quick reading of the draft, it appears everyone who had an AGI of $75,000 or less gets $1200 (plus some other additional bonus if you have dependents/chidren, etc).

Mar 27, 2020*permalink

Dré de Man

How can you know you saw shutter shock and not simply mirror vibration? Did you also test with the mirror flipped up? I tested the camera next to a D800E at 180mm and also 1/30s handheld and my experience is exactly the opposite: the D800E reaches about 50% of the lp/mm the D780 reaches handheld in this extreme situation.

I personally think you're just spoiled after having used so many mirrorless cameras. 1/30 s at 200mm handheld is a little on the risky side for a DSLR, even with optical stabilization in my experience.

Of course, it's possible that your 70-200 /4 (I used a different lens) - in combination with VR and the D780 somehow causes vibration to be not optimally compensated. We'll probably never know why you did, but I didn't experience a shutter vibration problem with the D780. It's a DSLR, with a well-damped mirror, but with a mirror nonetheless, so vibration is slightly higher than with a mirrorless camera. That's all in my opinion.

Mar 25, 2020permalink

Good opinion.

7 months agopermalink

Tysk

DSLRs are dead?
So thinking about getting this. I love people photography but also want to take ice hockey and dog action pics. Thinking D500 (750 at bargain) or D780 / 750, as I have some great Nikkors and my D300 has finally given up. What’s my mirrorless option? (Or computational option, whatever that is?

Mar 19, 2020permalink

Spectro

z6, but d780 liveview is the same as the z6.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Platinumkid

I had three of the new S-line lenses for my Z6. All three were better than their F-mount equivalents. The fact I cannot mount the new lenses on this camera makes it a poor buy for me. Without even mentioning the weird experience of having 2 different AF systems in the OVF and on the back screen. Plus, it has no IBIS, which I find useful. All in all - I wouldn't buy it. Which doesn't mean it's not capable of great stills and video and will not have happy owners, ofc.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Doesn't seem like you are the target audience for this camera as you are a happy Z shooter. Obviously if you own and like s lenses you should keep using a z camera. Not sure ibis on the D780 would make a difference. Every Nikon DSLR with video has two different af systems. Nothing different except the incredible bump in quality of the live view performance.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Exactly. This camera is more for people who have existing Nikon DSLRs and want to upgrade to another DSLR, and maybe at the same time dip their toe in the mirrorless waters and enjoy some of those advantages.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

opeom

Great camera! But I am a happy Canon 6d mark ii owner.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Petka

Both companies make great cameras, switching between them costs a lot and should be done only for a good reason. Quality of photographs is 98% in the operator anyway.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Come to Nikon opeom, the land of dynamic range and legendary F-Mount. :)

7 months agopermalink

LenRivers

From a former D750 user what i was doing with said D750 I would buy another D750 over the D780 or just go to the D850 if you want to stay put with a DSLR

Mar 17, 2020permalink

LensRivers:

Okay, but that just says you don't shoot higher ISOs, above 12800, and that you don't need really good liveview+video AF. The D750 is an excellent stills camera. The D850 is also an excellent stills camera, but no it is not the high ISO body that the D780 is.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

There is still a decent price difference between the D850 and D780 (about $500 last I checked). The D780 is probably still better in low light than the D850, and the D750 (IMO) between the three, remains the king (if the D780's ISO performance is truely similar to that of the Z6). On my D750 I could shoot up to 3200 without the need for NR in post for most images, and could even get away with ISO 4000 as well. The D850 is realy good for people who need high res images (to print large or whatever) but there's a trade-off.

Obviously, all three are great stills cameras, but when you start talking about high ISO performance (and other minor things) that where the differences start to show with each model.

Mar 26, 2020*permalink

fz750

why on earth haven't they increased the number and spread of the focus points?! It looked good in 2014 but in 2020 it doesn't . A real mixed bag isn't it..?!

The D750 here is $1100, the D780 $2200 and the D850 around $2400 which is certainly food for thought..

Mar 26, 2020permalink

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx

I think some of it has to do with the limits of how certain AF is implemented in DSLRs (specifically, how AF is implemented for the OVF). I think that some DSLRs have up to around 150 points, but that's probably around the limit for a standard DSLR unless you start looking into special techniques of some sort. To get a high number of AF points (like 300 or more), I've only seen this on ML cameras because they use on-sensor technology for AF (same concept as using LiveView on a DSLR).

(This article is the about Canon's DSLRs but I would assume the reasoning is similar for Nikon and other DSLRs):

Mar 26, 2020*permalink

fz750

yes, but the D850 has 153, and they are more widely distributed, I am sure I am not the only one who expected an improvement in this area (I'm not interested in live view..)

Mar 26, 2020permalink

fz750:

As long as you weren't expecting the whole OVF.

I bet it's a different AF module than that in the D850.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

fz750

Actually, was just looking at the difference and there's not the hugest difference in the distribution between the d780 and the D850.. The D500 on the other hand has, by far, the best coverage!

Mar 26, 2020*permalink

fz750:

And the ratio of AF sensor size to OVF size is lower in the D500 than in the D780, D850, etc.

The D500 also has better OVF AF than either the D850 or the D780.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Funny Valentine

Why would anyone buy this D780 over a Pentax K1-II ??

Mar 17, 2020permalink

FV:

Much better AF, much better at higher ISOs. That was easy.

Also one can mount vastly more lenses on it, including Zeiss Otus and Milvus lenses.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Tibor1

Because of a much better AF maybe?

I own a Pentax K1 and like it very much. But the AF-C performance is currently far behind the competition. All else is superb, excellent ergonomics and UI.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Um... if they are already invested in existing F-mount glass maybe, or they want to upgrade their D750 and not switch systems, among other reasons.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Joed700

As a former user of the D750, the shutter shock issue was a deal breaker for me then. I'm surprised that they didn't address this issue with the D780.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Tysk

It was and is the same with the D700. It has been fantastic. What is your chief concern with it - what does it prevent / make more cumbersome? I ask in peace.

Mar 18, 2020permalink

primeshooter

How come no low light AF section like the D750 review and most of the other recent reviews?

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Low light is covered a bit in the Image Quality section, and you can use the comparison tool to make your own assessments.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

primeshooter

The point I was making is the review isn't consistent with other reviews, why not keep the low light section and other's more similar for easier comparison? It's missing the -EV low light eye tests which were great in the D750 review...

Mar 26, 2020permalink

The D780 is another really high quality, solid release from Nikon, that unfortunately doesn't get its due, at least in online commentary. Over time this model will grow on consumers as people realize its inherent value, but that's been true of most of Nikon's recent releases, including it's Z series.

In today's world, when you release a new product, if you want attention and positive buzz it has to be perceived as offering something groundbreaking and cutting edge.

Sony did that for years with their alpha series FF MILCs. They were not necessarily the best overall, but they did offer new features that attracted attention. Now they are kind of getting beaten by those same rules, as their most recent releases haven't had much new stuff.

Canon seems to have that figured out now. With their 1DXIII they debuted all sorts of new and cutting edge features that got attention. Their R5 is the same way.

So cameras like the D780 unfortunately don't get the positive attention it should.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Tibor1

In my opinion, majority of people perfectly understand the obvious quality of the camera.
The problem is with the fairly similarly priced d850 at the moment.
We can argue that there is a huge difference in these two cameras' life cycles, but in real life, the ACTUAL purchase price of the product is an important factor in the final equation.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Chris J Newman

I have a D800, which I almost invariably use with a GPS sensor, that also functions as a wireless shutter release, connected to it. The D800, like Nikon’s other pro-spec DSLRs, has a 10-pin accessory terminal on the front. The D780 has its accessory terminal on the side. If you try to use a conventional “L” bracket to mount a camera on a tripod in portrait mode, anything plugged in to an accessory terminal on the side is likely to foul the tripod clamp. Positioning the terminal on the front avoids this problem. (I find the screw collar securing the 10-pin terminal fiddly to use, but that’s got little to do with its location). I came on this issue when looking at the possibility of switching to a Z7, which shares this issue, along with most of Nikon’s entry and mid-level cameras.

Chris

Mar 12, 2020permalink

agukha

"Image quality from its full-frame 24MP sensor is class-leading"

Well, not really, the image quality of the Pentax K1-ii is clearly better.

Mar 12, 2020permalink

agukha:

Um, image quality, whether it be from a Nikon or a Pentax is largely based on the lens used.

Now, for higher ISOs the body matters too, and the Nikon is a much better higher ISO body than the Pentax K1-II. (The D780 is a much better higher ISO body than pretty much any camera save the S1, Z6, and 1DXIII--likely the D6 too.)

Mar 17, 2020permalink

torogeephoto

The Pentax k1-ii has 36 mp lol.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

Tysk

Um, image quality is largely determined by who is holding the camera. That’s a good thing.

Mar 18, 2020*permalink

forest dream

Image quality is largely determined RAW post-processing software algorithm e.g. Lightroom. How many percentage image manipulated during RAW post-processing?

Mar 26, 2020permalink

forest:

"Image quality is largely determined RAW post-processing software algorithm e.g. Lightroom. "

Nope. You've confused good or bad raw file processing with IQ.

Also you neglected the massively important fact that IQ, at low ISOs--below 1000 for large sensored 2019 ILCs, is nearly entirely determined by the lens used.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

agukha

well, when I say that the image quality of the Pentax K1-ii is clearly better, it is based on the image quality comparator of dpreview. But if you say it is useless and biased, and that maybe a 645Z is worst than a D780 because of the lens or the user or else... well, you should never look at tests. But for most of us it is a good way to compare ;)

Mar 26, 2020permalink

agukha:'

And my claim is based on having tried both the K1II, and the Nikon D750+D780, and the A7RIV, A7RIII, D850, 5DSR.

Again, bodies have little to do with better IQ.

You can download raws real world raws from most of these cameras. But pay attention to the lens used and only look at raws shot below ISO 1000.

Mar 26, 2020permalink

Arastoo Vaziri

The what we don't list makes me wonder whether the reviewers think this is a camera for toddlers.
- Default JPEG noise reduction can be a tad aggressive: who shoots JPEG with a camera like this?
- No built-in flash: really?

Mar 10, 2020*permalink

NZ Scott

News photographers routinely shoot jpeg.

Mar 29, 2020permalink

The latest CIPA numbers are in.

Compared to January 2019 sales numbers, the DSLR category is down 30%.

New buyers of digital cameras are not buyers of DSLRs.

Mar 5, 2020permalink

pro photo 2011:

How many new models of DSLRs have come out since Jan 2019?

Mar 9, 2020permalink

The camera business is down >20% world wide. There are no new buyers more or less.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

@HowaboutRAW

Last hurrah for the DSLR category.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

pro photo 2011:

Not an answer to my question.

Anyhow, there'll be Nikon D7, a Nikon D870, a Canon 1DXIV, and several more some with APSC sensors.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

ed rader

goodbye nikon

Mar 2, 2020permalink

Rolleix

I like to try it with the 200 f2 VR to see how it does compare to my D750.

Mar 1, 2020permalink

SLOOPB

I customized a button the D780 for HDR but it doesn't work because if you have HDR off in the menu it does not turn on using the button. And if you have HDR on in the menu as single shot it works once only. And if you have HDR on in the menu for series it shoots HDR whether one uses the button or not.

Feb 26, 2020permalink

25 shot RAW + JPG buffer? Really? That's it? I was seriously thinking about trying one out but that buffer is smaller than the one in my Z6.

Feb 25, 2020*permalink

Thematic

Whoa! you are right.

Mar 7, 2020permalink

Nice Job Nikon. The DSLR is far from dead.

Feb 24, 2020permalink

Let's see what the sales numbers show us. They've already started offers, so that doesn't seem like a good sign.

Feb 25, 2020*permalink

Interesting response. Do you want DSLRs to die?

Feb 25, 2020permalink

I dont :)

Feb 29, 2020permalink

The latest CIPA numbers are in.

Compared to January 2019 sales numbers, the DSLR category is down 30%.

New buyers of digital cameras are not buyers of DSLRs.

Mar 5, 2020permalink

The majority may not be. So what

Mar 6, 2020permalink

@CaPi

"The majority may not be."? You are not willing to face the facts. A decline of 30% year-over-year and you said "The majority may not be". Ha ha.

So the DSLR will vanish in the not-too-distant future, like the Twin Lens Reflex (TLR) that was popular from the 1930s to the 1960s.

The diminishing sales number signal death of the DSLR category - like it or not.

Mar 6, 2020*permalink

Those are not facts - only your interpretation. Of it were? Mirroless would follow - the overall numbers are declining as well.
Just removing the mirror isn’t going to save cameras if computational photography options aren’t included way beyond what is on the market today. Ironically Olympus seems to be the first mover on that.
That said:
I am considering buying a dslr again.It will be available and it will be excellent.

Mar 6, 2020permalink

@CaPi

What interpretation? They are just cold and hard numbers.

Nikon and Canon became scared and started making non-reflex cameras two years ago.

All the best that you buy a DSLR again.

They won't be flying off the shelf for sure.

Mar 6, 2020*permalink

@pro photo

The devil is in the details. I mean, Mark Twain said, there are three kind of lies, lies, damn lies and statistics.

So, you are talking about the death of dslrs, and yes maybe you are right. But Mirrorles lost ~ 15% value. Thats not a good sign.
And if you look.by competitors in the mirrorless segment, Sony is dropping the most in the mirrorless segment. Why? Well because CaNikon entered the mirrorless segment.

So even that you are a pro Sony fan, you have to realize the facts that, the only reason why DSLR is dropping and mirrorless not dropping so much is all about CaNikon.

Mar 18, 2020permalink

@Bumblebees

The DSLR market is an already small niche that is dying.

These "new" DSLRs are the last hurrah.

Canon and Nikon smelled the trend two or three years ago. That's why there are also non-reflex cameras from them.

There will always be a dedicated camera market, even if it shrinks as the smartphone cameras gain capability.

As to the DSLR market, well, you can always find them in the used market on eBay and elsewhere.

Mar 18, 2020permalink

@pro photo

Its not that. What I pointed out is that mirrorless is not really making the market bigger. The ONLY reasons why mirrorless doesnt shrink as fast as DSLR’s is because CaNikon after many years of testing jumped on the ship. They put their eggs in another basket.

When they did they made a giant step in terms of bayonett size and flange. So, even though the market is shrinking CaNikon has put themselves in a nice position from a lens technology view.

But then by looking at D780 it really combines the advantages with DSLR’s with the advantages for mirrorless.

Fantastic battery capacity, nice grip, nice balance, sturdy built, very good af (i.e high hitrate), ovf and mirrorless af for liveview an movie, n-logg 10 bit, 12 step dynamic range in movie.

So, if I had a bunch of f-bayonett lenses I would defenetely take the D780 as a camera that could be interesting.

Mar 19, 2020permalink

@Bumblebees

Those who have a bunch of F-mount lenses most likely have dumped them in the used market.

A person having 3 lenses, for example, will not buy the EXPENSIVE D780 just so he can continue to use those lenses.

How many people out there have 5 or more F-mount lenses?

If Nikon is aiming at these people, there are not too many of them.

And they have to overcome D780's high price hurdle.

Mar 19, 2020*permalink

I do. More than 5

Mar 19, 2020permalink

I have several F-mount lenses but I wouldn’t hesitate to sell them on eBay to jump to a new system or another brand. For now, I have no issue using them on my Z6 via the FTZ adapter. I’m also enjoying the awesome performance of the 24-70 F2.8S. If all the new lenses are that much better, I’ll have all Z lenses soon.

Mar 19, 2020permalink

@pro photo 2011

I guess you are not a pro. Pro = professional = some one who works professionally = earns money on what he/she does.

One of the most stupid decisions you can do as a pro is to get rid of older and nice stuff that you know works and dont let you down when the work HAS to be done. Meaning no matter what weather or situation it is - cause the buyer still need his pictures.

So, if were a pro I could choose between using the old f lenses on the new Z as well.
But if I were going on a football game, shooting for a news agency and had three cameras in front of me to choose from, eg. A7III, Z6 and D780,
I would most probably pick the D780 of several reasons, like af/hitrate, batterycapacity, grip/balance with bigger lenses, menues.

Btw, if you like to visit a pro page. Google on eg ”D850 + nps” there are a lot of settings tips how you as a pro could/should use eg the af in various situations.

Mar 21, 2020permalink

You can go on criticizing and complaining but the DSLR sales will continue to diminish.

Mar 21, 2020permalink

So will the mirroless sales.

Mar 21, 2020permalink

That's not the point.

It is that the non-reflex camera is REPLACING the DSLR.

Mar 22, 2020*permalink

@pro photo 2011

Well, maybe you didn’t read my text so good.
Yes DSLR will in sometime vanish, still many of them are good enough or for some users like sportsfotographers, still better.

And the original thing was about the D780. And the D780 will be a joy for many of the users with a big chunk of f-bayonett lenses. And when they change to mirrorless, they can still use their old lenses. I.e. There is no reason to sell the old f-bayonet lenses, except if you change system.

Mar 23, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

And no one mentions the lack of the grip option.

Feb 23, 2020permalink

Not again

Feb 29, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Not again what? I did not mean to blame Nikon for removing the grip option because even DPR doesn't care about it.

Feb 29, 2020permalink

EDWARD ARTISTE

Look, no grip is pathetic no matter who does it. It's lame, dumb, pathetic, sad, foolish, ridiculous, nonsensical, etc etc etc

Feelings wont change facts. Even rebels can get a grip (pun!)

Mar 3, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Are you 13?

Mar 3, 2020permalink

EDWARD ARTISTE

No, but your ridiculous question doesn't hide the fact that Nikon doesn't want this to be a cheaper D5. Even 13 year olds can see that. It might have gone over your're head.

Whatever you meant by your assertion that even dpreview doesn't care, doesn't mean anything. It seems like desperation or just convenient stupidity that a few of the camera makers have been creating grips that either have no functionality or like this sad example of no grip at all.

Make a great camera and then limit the options. Good job Nikon, whatever helps the bottom line.

Mar 3, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Ok, so you are temperamental 14. How does D780 with would be grip compare to D5? D5 is top of the class camera while D780 even with the grip no one bought is the bottom of the line camera.

Mar 3, 2020permalink

The no grip controversy was way overblown. Most never bought it for the D750. Why should Nikon invest money in making an accessory that most will not want and end up giving them away? Most don't realize that it would cost Nikon to make a grip for this camera, in terms of development, manufacture, inventory, etc.

And no way would adding a grip to a D780 make it a sort of D5/D6. Anyone who says that has never used a D5. Nikon is not trying to protect that market.

They know the sales figures and they know the grip was not used by the majority of users in this market.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

In respect of dpreview's comment on electronic viewfinders, I put my eye to the Sony 6400's viewfinder and was shocked at how poor an experience it was in respect of my experience of the Xpro-1 electronic viewfinder. That's right, a camera from 2012.

I haven't tried any other Sonys but on that basis I would be wary of not trying out modern electronic viewfinders before purchase.

You have been warned.

Feb 22, 2020permalink

I love the viewfinder in my Z6.

Feb 25, 2020permalink

I'll hopefully try one out soon.

Feb 25, 2020permalink

rbach44

Some are much better than others. The Nikon Zs and the Panasonic SL's are rather nice.

A bad EVF, however, feels like a crappy tv pressed to your eye. Totally unpleasant and does account for much f the EVFs out there. I'll take a crappy OVF over an EVF any day.

Feb 27, 2020permalink

https://petapixel.com/2019/11/12/nikon-says-its-cameras-need-to-justify-their-existence-as-a-business/

Good point. Not all EVFs are created equal. The best ones I've tried out are the ones for the Panasonic S1R and the Fuji GFX100...which makes sense since they are the same component. The EVFs for the Nikon Z and the Canon R are also quite nice.

Most of the Sony's have average EVFs...kind of ironic since with Sony's background in TV and smartphone displays you think they would have this figured out better. I also tried the A7R4, which has the same EVF panel made by Sony as the Panasonic and Fuji...but it didn't perform as well in the Sony. It just didn't look quite as nice. Again, ironic.

But as mirrorless cameras grow in use, most reviewers should review the EVF more rigorously as it does matter a lot to the whole user experience of the camera.

Mar 17, 2020permalink

StoneJack

Just to give some information about those *Sony Northrop* who think is that Nikon is dying or sort of.

In 2016, Nikon operating profit was 35 billion yen, operating margin 4.2%, return on equity (ROE, profitability) 5.5%.

In 2019, Nikon's operating profit is 82.6 billion yen *up by 67.6 billion.
Operating margin: 11.7% or up by 9.5%
return on equity (ROE) 11.2% or up by 9.4%.

Operating profit of 82.6 billion yen is HIGHEST since 2010.
R&D expenditures in the fiscal year ended March 31, 2019, totaled ¥63.9 billion, an increase of ¥3.2 billion year on year.
It paid dividends per share in the fiscal year ended March 31, 2019, amounted to ¥60, which is increased by ¥24 from the previ- ous fiscal year and, indeed, highest since 2010.

In incoming years with intensified investment, company targets ROE no less than 8%,12% by 2023, focuses 40% of its resources on strategic investment.

Feb 22, 2020*permalink

StoneJack

In 2020, Nikon is planning to increase its investment and establish foundations for growth. It targets areas of 3D Printers, Laser processing systems, Integrated optical processing machining solutions, 3D measurement systems in digital manufacturing, sports imaging, robot vision, healthcare with cell culture applications, AI diagnosis.

In Imaging division (cameras) Nikon declared focus in incoming years on full frame cameras, video, completion of Z line, high mid end DSLR, swift product launches and frequent improvement cycles.

Feb 22, 2020permalink

MILC man

nikon overall financials are not very relevant to nikon camera owners, who are justifiably concerned about the future of nikon imaging:

"Nikon Says Its Cameras Need to Justify Their Existence as a Business

...In its 2nd quarter results for fiscal year 2020, Nikon revised its financial forecasts for the year, dropping its predicted revenue from the imaging business from ¥260 billion to ¥235 billion (a drop of nearly 10%) and lowering the operating profit from ¥12 billion (~$110 million) in profit to a loss of ¥10 billion (~$92 million).

Nikon blames the forecast change on an “overestimation of market size/share” and the fact that the shift toward full-frame mirrorless cameras away from full-frame DSLRs “has not accelerated as expected.”

...In other words, Nikon cameras and lenses need to start contributing to Nikon’s bottom line again instead of weighing it down."

Feb 22, 2020*permalink

MILC man

This is relevant to nikon camera owners, and it is a disaster:

"Performance by the [Nikon] Imaging Products Business:

...However, overall unit sales of both digital camera-interchangeable lens type and compact digital cameras fell amidst the shrinking market. As a result, revenue for the Imaging Products Business decreased by 21.1% year on year to 119,054 million yen, and operating profit fell by 84.7% year on year to 2,026 million yen."
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/11/07/nikons-q2-financial-results-are-out-2.aspx/

Feb 22, 2020*permalink

ed rader

maybe Nikon will make more noct lenses

Mar 2, 2020permalink

EDWARD ARTISTE

Facts will always good

Mar 3, 2020permalink

rbach44

Even as a Nikon fan, who will love just about anything they do, I don’t quite see how how this is a mirrorless/SLR crossover. It seems likes an SLR with well executed live view and video features.

If they had only figured out how to cram an at least somewhat capable IBIS unit in here, it would be real winer. Right now its just another iteration of a very good camera.

Though knowing Nikon, there are portably a ton of little refinements that don’t make the spec sheet that make it a lovely camera in actual use. And the current generation of Nikon color is worth the price of admission alone. My D600 will need a replacement one day...

Feb 21, 2020*permalink

It is called a crossover because it doesn't just have improved live view. It has the Z6 live view. People seem to forget about the flip screen. When using the flip screen, one has access to Z6 functionality while shooting stills. Why else was the flip screen introduced before great live view was introduced? I don't care about ibis. And, I do appreciate all of the upgrades to the D750. I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Maybe after my tax refund or during the end of year sales.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

D850, D500 also have flip screens. Does it make them mirrorless crossovers?

Feb 23, 2020permalink

C'mon Sushi, that is no response to what I just said. I brought up the Z6's live view in the D780 which the D500 and D850 clearly don't have. Shooting video or stills with that fantastic live view, and shooting stills with the great ovf af is what makes this a crossover. But, you know that.

Feb 23, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

But what does it have to do with the flip screen? Id D780 did not have a flip screen wouldn't it still be a crossover?

Feb 23, 2020permalink

If if's and buts were candy and nuts.

Feb 23, 2020permalink

Sushieater, if you have used liveview on older DSLRs then you know they are not equivalent to mirrorless performance and a pro photographer wouldn't often use them.

However here it is equivalent, and you get both worlds (other than for the no viewfinder in mirrorless mode).

Feb 25, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

Do you normally read what person says or just trying to push your agenda?

Feb 25, 2020permalink

Huh? Who's pushing an agenda? Seems like you might have an agenda.

Feb 25, 2020permalink

(unknown member)

You posted an answer that is not related at all to what I said. What do you call it?

Feb 26, 2020permalink

SushiEater, whatever.

Feb 26, 2020permalink

gameshoes3003

I too don't see it as a "cross-over". Nikon simply caught up to Canon for having a nice live view experience.

Mar 2, 2020permalink

paolo robaudi

I still use d800, I don't understand all this rush about new camera, all I need I still do with d800. Again, I don't understand Sony camera, it's like use a mobile for take pictures.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

muljao

To be fair the d800 is probably all the camera most would ever need.
Sony menus would probably become second nature to you if you needed to use them

Feb 21, 2020permalink

IdM photography

I had the D800E... very good image quality, better than any currently sold Canon,, but the AF is very poor in low light... I then bought a Pentax 645Z, the AF in low light was so much better (Single shot AF, not continuous AF.)...

Feb 21, 2020*permalink

RubenS89

Better than any currently sold Canon? Right....

Feb 23, 2020permalink

IdM photography

Yes... Maybe the R7 will change that... or maybe not...

Feb 23, 2020*permalink

Until you run low on light. ISO 102,400 on the D780 looks better than 25,600 on the D800. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_z6&attr13_1=nikon_d800&attr13_2=nikon_d810&attr13_3=nikon_d780&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=25600&attr16_1=25600&attr16_2=25600&attr16_3=25600&normalization=print&widget=629&x=-0.03133269365502396&y=-0.9689982728842834

Feb 25, 2020*permalink

muljao

@DAN I don't take pics of black cats in coal mines without flash so it doesn't matter too much to me :)

Feb 25, 2020permalink

You can realize the difference in plain old everyday indoor shots. With new technology, you can increase the shutter speed to reduce blur, or you can close the aperture to increase depth-of-field. It's funny how I thought this exact same thing when the Fujifilm S1 Pro came out. Hey but back then I was limited by film. One thing's for sure though. With my Z6, my flash use has gone down dramatically and with that, my images look so much more natural.

Feb 25, 2020*permalink

muljao

@Dan I agree, it was an attempt at a bit of humour. Enjoy the Z6, looks the business

Feb 25, 2020permalink

oh :)

Feb 25, 2020permalink

gameshoes3003

I enjoyed my D800 until last December when I sold it off it modernize my equipment. If you don't see any benefits with the newer cameras then cool, you've saved some money.

Mar 2, 2020permalink

vytautasengineer

As can be seen from the gallery, AF-S Nikkor 35mm F1.8G ED is not good, because it is soft in the corners.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

chambeshi

Following on the D750 the D780 could – indeed should – be ideal for sport and wildlife photographers. And Nikon marketing ranks these genres highly eg sports. The D780 is relatively affordable with excellent low-light capabilities, 51-point AF using the D5 algorithm running on Expeed6.

Download pdf of the Manual, here one reads Good and Very Bad in Custom Options. Excellent menu expansion by adding the customizable Z i-Menu: respective Setups in Stills, Movie and Playback. Great features cloned across from the Z6/Z7 (which cannot customize the i-Menu in Playback by the way?)

Nikon have now thrown out the ability that’s standard in current DSLRs (eg D500, D850) to map key Features to Fn/Pv etc: notably you cannot use AF-On+AF-Area Mode on a Fn button. Seriously?! Users shooting action don't buy a crippled DSLR that's otherwise a very decent camera. Crass stupidity yet again by Nikon. Free Advice - Get a Used D850 or D500. At least until Nikon upgrades the D870 Firmware.

Feb 21, 2020*permalink

dpierredp

" Default JPEG noise reduction can be a tad aggressive " Hmmm AA filter!

Feb 21, 2020permalink

threw the lens

I'm not interested in "convergence" of DSLR with mirrorless lines, though I understand why Nikon is tempted to do it. If you want to shoot video you really would be better served with an electronic viewfinder and sensor stabilisation. Decide what you want. Because here you get a DSLR with no facility for adding a grip, no flash and no flash commander. I'd rather have a DSLR which excells at stills instead of trying to behave like a mirrorless video camera which it can't match.
Different types excell at different things. Mirrorless is not going to supplant DSLR for certain applications anytime soon.
If Nikon had presented the D780 to me as a mature camera which would have accepted a battery grip then I would have been kinder about it. Not having this screams "consumer toy" to me. Sorry, but using pro cameras it's the way I feel.

Feb 21, 2020*permalink

But why the 'instead of'? It does excel at stills. The D750 also had live view but was barely useful. If one wants better still photography all by itself get the next D8xx. The D780 offers the best stills photography at this price point (not counting years old cameras or used) as well as having live view. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of having top notch live view for my macro work. I use live view when on a tripod shooting macro. Of course, it's not for everyone and is not going to sell anything like the D750 did. That is of no concern to me.

Feb 23, 2020permalink

G Master

DSLR camera reviews are reading more of a copy and paste review from yesteryears.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

Richard Butler

Or is it that DSLR cameras are being built by raiding the parts bin?

Feb 21, 2020*permalink

StoneJack

@ G master
Yea, not every article praises Sony... i feel your pain

Feb 21, 2020permalink

rbach44

"Or is it that DSLR cameras are being built by raiding the parts bin?"

If this is true then mirrorless camera updates are nothing but big ol' firmware updates.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

GV65

This comment is spot on ! DSLR reviews always discuss pixels and focus and colors and light over and over again.... truly boring and far too repetitive stuff for people who have been around for a while. I believe DPReview urgently needs innovative forums on gardening, pets and knitwear for a change ...

Feb 27, 2020permalink

Good to see Nikon is back with SD card, lot of Nikon users (including me) couldn't buy z6/7 due to the XQD slot... that too a single one!

Feb 20, 2020permalink

ROFL, what a joke of an excuse !

Feb 22, 2020permalink

Joke or not, Nikon lost quite a few faithful customers for that...

Feb 23, 2020permalink

saiko
Can you name any?

Feb 24, 2020permalink

salko, if you drop your Nikon system because Z cameras are only sporting one XQD/CFE card slot, frankly, you should stop photography and just goto unboxing youtuber business.

Sorry, but you can bark as loudly as you want, that "only one slot is a utterly bad failure" is just a lame argument for SONY fanboys that were p1ssEd of after years of bashing from Canikon dSLR owners with dual slot memory cards bodies. I never understood why that lame argument was used, as it was lame and insignifiant, period.
There are still many point MILC that are critcable, but frankly the single slot pseudo fiasco was not one.

Oh, by the way, even if memory cards don't look to worn out, actually silicom does worn out.
Just get new memory card on regular basis, especially the one of the worst design aka SDcard (smartCard were even more a pity, of course, with sturdy but epic "confidential" SONY memory stick)

Feb 25, 2020*permalink

Mared

Gon0S You're so in the minority to think a single card slot wasn't a gigantic failure in the Z series cameras. The amount of negative press it generated was incredible. This mis-step has and does clearly negatively affect the sales of these cameras and correspondingly the health of Nikon as a camera manufacturer.

Mar 9, 2020permalink

@Mared
ROFL
For scared guys using 10 years old SDcard because they can shell out thousand of USD for a new system, but unable to sustain 100USD card budget/year...

Seriously, get a life. Do you really worry your smartphone does only sport onto a single mass storage unit ? your car ? Frankly, this noise was so a pity coming from guys with lame and poor knowledge what they are talking about. But of course, it was as failure, as every body were touting it HAS TO BE A FAILURE.

Worst part, most of the whiners do not even use both slot as a backup but just overflow... really an epic failure... for the brain of whiners and all the army of rich unboxer selfcalled geniuses of videography

Mar 16, 2020permalink

@Gon0S Because of XQD I won't buy Z6 or Z7 for half the price, I won't even buy it second hand! But that's me, you don't have to agree!

SD Card is not 10 but more than 20 years old but it keep getting updated in terms of speed, capacity and reliability (the latest being SD-UC).

Not everyone interested throwing away more than 10 times (~20USD for 128GB SD Card vs 200USD for 120GB XQD) money one memory card for not any significant benefit in day to day use. Even Sony doesn't put it in their top of the line FF cameras even though they are a leading manufacturer of XQD cards. Most probably Nikon realized its blunder and will avoid in its next FF mirrorless iteration.

If you want to spend your money one such expensive and obscure cards that's doomed to fail, good for you! But no need to get so worked up that others are not doing the same...

Mar 19, 2020permalink

The best way to take advantage of XQD speed is to use it as a hard drive. In cameras it's advantage is debatable.

Mar 19, 2020permalink

@saiko
Hey, do you know you are playing with expensive devices and expensive lenses but cannot sustain a 80USD payload for a memory card ?

Seriously, you are acting like a child. But do whatever you want, touting how wonderfull your SONY camera is when it struggle to empty its buffer to the über wonderfull SDcards...

I don't own any XDQ/CFE cards, but your claims are just poor. Just tell us you are absolutly not intersted in any Nikon device because you are so much in blind love with what you barely managed to buy because of the hype or needs, but please, stop with that ridiculous argument.

Mar 19, 2020permalink

@tbcass
D850 and D5 nor Z6/Z7 seems to be suffering from running XQD cards, or are you trying to convince us there is no benefits ?
Did you ever tried to transfert 64GB of a SDcard vs 128GB from a XQD to your SSD ? Will you try to tell us there is no difference either there ?

Oh, yeah, the new hope is to only have onboard storage and transfert files through wifi, it is really that your best wish for the storage future ?

Mar 19, 2020permalink

Gon0S
I said "In cameras it's advantage is debatable." I stand by that. I can dump 64GB of files in a couple minutes with a standard SD card. If the XQD card cuts a minute off that time it's not something that I consider a big deal. I'm not that impatient.

Mar 19, 2020permalink

@Gon0S If Leica, Sigma (or even Canon) had used XQD card I won't give two hoots about it because I don't own any of their gears... the very fact I am talking about it is because I care about Nikon. I have been using Nikon system since the film era. I have quite a few Nikon bodies (film, dx, fx) and tens of lenses. I was eagerly waiting to get the Nikon FF mirrorless but they brought that fugly design with an obscure and expensive memory card... had I not been invested in Nikon I would have moved to another platform long ago.

Also, you can't seem to comprehend that there are fast SD Cards that are way faster than cheap slow and trash you seem to be using.

If you don't even use XQD card (or Nikon Z6 or 7) then why are you going around whinnying about it?!

Mar 20, 2020permalink

Mared

saiko - Thank you for proving/being an example of my point - my earlier post a couple of comments earlier :). The fact that it upset Gon0S so much that he had to make a long rambling reply to me makes it even better.

Mar 20, 2020permalink

Some people give the impression that a camera could be the best at everything possible but if it didn't use an XQD card it would be unacceptable.

Mar 20, 2020permalink

@tbcass I guess Nikon was expecting their XQD would to be a great hit!! How many 'best' cameras are using XQD by the way, I don't see many...

Mar 20, 2020permalink

saiko
My statement was hypothetical. There is no "best" camera. You could insert any other feature in place of XQD card and somebody would reply that it's absence was a massive mistake or even made the camera unacceptable. Examples I've seen are 2 card slots and articulating LCD, I'm sure you can think of others.

Mar 20, 2020*permalink

tbr63

It might sound strange, but having used Nikon digital cameras for more than 10 years, the "i" menu function in the D780, taken from the Z6/Z7, is a fantastic improvement in usability, even compared to many other cameras it is a no brainer. As example setting exposure delay is now very simple compared to a function button on front in combination with a selector wheel or digging deeply in menues. And changing focusing mode was earlier only possible with dedicated oddly placed button and selector wheel...It is a pitty that DPreview won't spent more time and attention on this camera. They write that the D780 has the Z6 functions, but people needs to know then the Z6....so who is the review for then?
The Fujifilm X-T200 get a lot of attention and understandable, still the D780 is not an upgrade to D750, it is a brand new camera that maybe deserve a bit more attention. And DSLR lives on, Canon get a lot of attention with the new 1 DX MKIII.

Feb 20, 2020permalink

Leonp

Looking at the studio test scene samples I think moire is quite bad. It seems to me that using modern, very sharp, lenses is not the greatest idea on a camera with 24,5 MP on a full frame sensor.

Feb 20, 2020permalink

Jhaakas

Why would they not put in IBIS when they had it in Z6!!
Probably due to the existing lenses being OIS... not sure if it would interfere

Feb 20, 2020permalink

Jurgen M Lobert

Because that is their DSLR paradigm, and because it would require a complete redesign of the camera, IBIS needs space in the back, while maintaining the distance from the sensor to the lens.

Feb 21, 2020permalink

Jhaakas

They were able to put it in Z6 so space is not an issue. It is already designed so will be just an adaptation in dslr.
Strangely, they dropped ibis from z50 as well...

Feb 21, 2020permalink