Nikon D780 Review

@howboutraw what limitations are those??

There is still a decent price difference between the D850 and D780 (about $500 last I checked). The D780 is probably still better in low light than the D850, and the D750 (IMO) between the three, remains the king (if the D780's ISO performance is truely similar to that of the Z6). On my D750 I could shoot up to 3200 without the need for NR in post for most images, and could even get away with ISO 4000 as well. The D850 is realy good for people who need high res images (to print large or whatever) but there's a trade-off.

Obviously, all three are great stills cameras, but when you start talking about high ISO performance (and other minor things) that where the differences start to show with each model.

why on earth haven't they increased the number and spread of the focus points?! It looked good in 2014 but in 2020 it doesn't . A real mixed bag isn't it..?!

The D750 here is $1100, the D780 $2200 and the D850 around $2400 which is certainly food for thought..

I think some of it has to do with the limits of how certain AF is implemented in DSLRs (specifically, how AF is implemented for the OVF). I think that some DSLRs have up to around 150 points, but that's probably around the limit for a standard DSLR unless you start looking into special techniques of some sort. To get a high number of AF points (like 300 or more), I've only seen this on ML cameras because they use on-sensor technology for AF (same concept as using LiveView on a DSLR).

(This article is the about Canon's DSLRs but I would assume the reasoning is similar for Nikon and other DSLRs):

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx

yes, but the D850 has 153, and they are more widely distributed, I am sure I am not the only one who expected an improvement in this area (I'm not interested in live view..)

fz750:

As long as you weren't expecting the whole OVF.

I bet it's a different AF module than that in the D850.

Actually, was just looking at the difference and there's not the hugest difference in the distribution between the d780 and the D850.. The D500 on the other hand has, by far, the best coverage!

Image quality is largely determined RAW post-processing software algorithm e.g. Lightroom. How many percentage image manipulated during RAW post-processing?

forest:

"Image quality is largely determined RAW post-processing software algorithm e.g. Lightroom. "

Nope. You've confused good or bad raw file processing with IQ.

Also you neglected the massively important fact that IQ, at low ISOs--below 1000 for large sensored 2019 ILCs, is nearly entirely determined by the lens used.

well, when I say that the image quality of the Pentax K1-ii is clearly better, it is based on the image quality comparator of dpreview. But if you say it is useless and biased, and that maybe a 645Z is worst than a D780 because of the lens or the user or else... well, you should never look at tests. But for most of us it is a good way to compare ;)

The camera business is down >20% world wide. There are no new buyers more or less.

Interesting response. Do you want DSLRs to die?

I dont :)

@CaPi

"The majority may not be."? You are not willing to face the facts. A decline of 30% year-over-year and you said "The majority may not be". Ha ha.

So the DSLR will vanish in the not-too-distant future, like the Twin Lens Reflex (TLR) that was popular from the 1930s to the 1960s.

The diminishing sales number signal death of the DSLR category - like it or not.

Those are not facts - only your interpretation. Of it were? Mirroless would follow - the overall numbers are declining as well.
Just removing the mirror isn’t going to save cameras if computational photography options aren’t included way beyond what is on the market today. Ironically Olympus seems to be the first mover on that.
That said:
I am considering buying a dslr again.It will be available and it will be excellent.

@CaPi

What interpretation? They are just cold and hard numbers.

Nikon and Canon became scared and started making non-reflex cameras two years ago.

All the best that you buy a DSLR again.

They won't be flying off the shelf for sure.

@Bumblebees

The DSLR market is an already small niche that is dying.

These "new" DSLRs are the last hurrah.

Canon and Nikon smelled the trend two or three years ago. That's why there are also non-reflex cameras from them.

There will always be a dedicated camera market, even if it shrinks as the smartphone cameras gain capability.

As to the DSLR market, well, you can always find them in the used market on eBay and elsewhere.

@Bumblebees

Those who have a bunch of F-mount lenses most likely have dumped them in the used market.

A person having 3 lenses, for example, will not buy the EXPENSIVE D780 just so he can continue to use those lenses.

How many people out there have 5 or more F-mount lenses?

If Nikon is aiming at these people, there are not too many of them.

And they have to overcome D780's high price hurdle.

I do. More than 5

I have several F-mount lenses but I wouldn’t hesitate to sell them on eBay to jump to a new system or another brand. For now, I have no issue using them on my Z6 via the FTZ adapter. I’m also enjoying the awesome performance of the 24-70 F2.8S. If all the new lenses are that much better, I’ll have all Z lenses soon.

@pro photo 2011

I guess you are not a pro. Pro = professional = some one who works professionally = earns money on what he/she does.

One of the most stupid decisions you can do as a pro is to get rid of older and nice stuff that you know works and dont let you down when the work HAS to be done. Meaning no matter what weather or situation it is - cause the buyer still need his pictures.

So, if were a pro I could choose between using the old f lenses on the new Z as well.
But if I were going on a football game, shooting for a news agency and had three cameras in front of me to choose from, eg. A7III, Z6 and D780,
I would most probably pick the D780 of several reasons, like af/hitrate, batterycapacity, grip/balance with bigger lenses, menues.

Btw, if you like to visit a pro page. Google on eg ”D850 + nps” there are a lot of settings tips how you as a pro could/should use eg the af in various situations.

So will the mirroless sales.

That's not the point.

It is that the non-reflex camera is REPLACING the DSLR.

No, but your ridiculous question doesn't hide the fact that Nikon doesn't want this to be a cheaper D5. Even 13 year olds can see that. It might have gone over your're head.

Whatever you meant by your assertion that even dpreview doesn't care, doesn't mean anything. It seems like desperation or just convenient stupidity that a few of the camera makers have been creating grips that either have no functionality or like this sad example of no grip at all.

Make a great camera and then limit the options. Good job Nikon, whatever helps the bottom line.

Ok, so you are temperamental 14. How does D780 with would be grip compare to D5? D5 is top of the class camera while D780 even with the grip no one bought is the bottom of the line camera.

maybe Nikon will make more noct lenses

If if's and buts were candy and nuts.

Sushieater, if you have used liveview on older DSLRs then you know they are not equivalent to mirrorless performance and a pro photographer wouldn't often use them.

However here it is equivalent, and you get both worlds (other than for the no viewfinder in mirrorless mode).

Do you normally read what person says or just trying to push your agenda?

You posted an answer that is not related at all to what I said. What do you call it?

SushiEater, whatever.

Better than any currently sold Canon? Right....

Yes... Maybe the R7 will change that... or maybe not...

Until you run low on light. ISO 102,400 on the D780 looks better than 25,600 on the D800. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_z6&attr13_1=nikon_d800&attr13_2=nikon_d810&attr13_3=nikon_d780&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=25600&attr16_1=25600&attr16_2=25600&attr16_3=25600&normalization=print&widget=629&x=-0.03133269365502396&y=-0.9689982728842834

You can realize the difference in plain old everyday indoor shots. With new technology, you can increase the shutter speed to reduce blur, or you can close the aperture to increase depth-of-field. It's funny how I thought this exact same thing when the Fujifilm S1 Pro came out. Hey but back then I was limited by film. One thing's for sure though. With my Z6, my flash use has gone down dramatically and with that, my images look so much more natural.

@Dan I agree, it was an attempt at a bit of humour. Enjoy the Z6, looks the business

oh :)

saiko
Can you name any?

salko, if you drop your Nikon system because Z cameras are only sporting one XQD/CFE card slot, frankly, you should stop photography and just goto unboxing youtuber business.

Sorry, but you can bark as loudly as you want, that "only one slot is a utterly bad failure" is just a lame argument for SONY fanboys that were p1ssEd of after years of bashing from Canikon dSLR owners with dual slot memory cards bodies. I never understood why that lame argument was used, as it was lame and insignifiant, period.
There are still many point MILC that are critcable, but frankly the single slot pseudo fiasco was not one.

Oh, by the way, even if memory cards don't look to worn out, actually silicom does worn out.
Just get new memory card on regular basis, especially the one of the worst design aka SDcard (smartCard were even more a pity, of course, with sturdy but epic "confidential" SONY memory stick)

@Mared
ROFL
For scared guys using 10 years old SDcard because they can shell out thousand of USD for a new system, but unable to sustain 100USD card budget/year...

Seriously, get a life. Do you really worry your smartphone does only sport onto a single mass storage unit ? your car ? Frankly, this noise was so a pity coming from guys with lame and poor knowledge what they are talking about. But of course, it was as failure, as every body were touting it HAS TO BE A FAILURE.

Worst part, most of the whiners do not even use both slot as a backup but just overflow... really an epic failure... for the brain of whiners and all the army of rich unboxer selfcalled geniuses of videography

@Gon0S Because of XQD I won't buy Z6 or Z7 for half the price, I won't even buy it second hand! But that's me, you don't have to agree!

SD Card is not 10 but more than 20 years old but it keep getting updated in terms of speed, capacity and reliability (the latest being SD-UC).

Not everyone interested throwing away more than 10 times (~20USD for 128GB SD Card vs 200USD for 120GB XQD) money one memory card for not any significant benefit in day to day use. Even Sony doesn't put it in their top of the line FF cameras even though they are a leading manufacturer of XQD cards. Most probably Nikon realized its blunder and will avoid in its next FF mirrorless iteration.

If you want to spend your money one such expensive and obscure cards that's doomed to fail, good for you! But no need to get so worked up that others are not doing the same...

The best way to take advantage of XQD speed is to use it as a hard drive. In cameras it's advantage is debatable.

@saiko
Hey, do you know you are playing with expensive devices and expensive lenses but cannot sustain a 80USD payload for a memory card ?

Seriously, you are acting like a child. But do whatever you want, touting how wonderfull your SONY camera is when it struggle to empty its buffer to the über wonderfull SDcards...

I don't own any XDQ/CFE cards, but your claims are just poor. Just tell us you are absolutly not intersted in any Nikon device because you are so much in blind love with what you barely managed to buy because of the hype or needs, but please, stop with that ridiculous argument.

@tbcass
D850 and D5 nor Z6/Z7 seems to be suffering from running XQD cards, or are you trying to convince us there is no benefits ?
Did you ever tried to transfert 64GB of a SDcard vs 128GB from a XQD to your SSD ? Will you try to tell us there is no difference either there ?

Oh, yeah, the new hope is to only have onboard storage and transfert files through wifi, it is really that your best wish for the storage future ?

Gon0S
I said "In cameras it's advantage is debatable." I stand by that. I can dump 64GB of files in a couple minutes with a standard SD card. If the XQD card cuts a minute off that time it's not something that I consider a big deal. I'm not that impatient.

@Gon0S If Leica, Sigma (or even Canon) had used XQD card I won't give two hoots about it because I don't own any of their gears... the very fact I am talking about it is because I care about Nikon. I have been using Nikon system since the film era. I have quite a few Nikon bodies (film, dx, fx) and tens of lenses. I was eagerly waiting to get the Nikon FF mirrorless but they brought that fugly design with an obscure and expensive memory card... had I not been invested in Nikon I would have moved to another platform long ago.

Also, you can't seem to comprehend that there are fast SD Cards that are way faster than cheap slow and trash you seem to be using.

If you don't even use XQD card (or Nikon Z6 or 7) then why are you going around whinnying about it?!

saiko - Thank you for proving/being an example of my point - my earlier post a couple of comments earlier :). The fact that it upset Gon0S so much that he had to make a long rambling reply to me makes it even better.

Some people give the impression that a camera could be the best at everything possible but if it didn't use an XQD card it would be unacceptable.

@tbcass I guess Nikon was expecting their XQD would to be a great hit!! How many 'best' cameras are using XQD by the way, I don't see many...

They were able to put it in Z6 so space is not an issue. It is already designed so will be just an adaptation in dslr.
Strangely, they dropped ibis from z50 as well...