Is it ridiculous to want a detailed review to present more details on viewfinder quality under more varied conditions? I was appalled by R5's poor viewfinder experience in not so low light, and it was set to smooth display (120 fps). From the review, quote: "... but 120fps will undoubtedly look nicer to those still used to optical viewfinders of DSLRs." No, it wasn't even close to an OVF and there was no workaround. And I actually found Nikon Z7's viewfinder much smoother. These aspects should be reviewed more thoroughly in a review supposed to test the camera under all conditions and help people that cannot try a camera in person.
While one of the linked threads was locked, this has nothing to do with the original assertion.
One word of caution to prospective buyers: please try the viewfinder yourself before buying a camera, it can be a very personal experience.

This time more on R6's EVF stutter here: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/for-those-moving-from-an-r-to-the-r6-thoughts.39244/
I agree with what is posted there, meaning this stutter wasn't present in the original Canon R. I'm not talking about the blackout (shown in the video) but the stutter when moving the camera around.

@iso
Why are you banging on about EVFs in cameras you don’t own and never will own? It seems that you shoot Pentax so will never have to worry about EVFs....You do realise incidentally that these are basically generic units probably made by Sony? You highlight a problem that has never been mentioned in a review by independent professional reviewers (including dpr) ............so who do we believe you or themmmm?

ISO the reason DPreview doesn’t mention this is because it has no effect on what’s most important. Photography.

If you shoot that much video, why not get a video camera? It's a hybrid camera...

Yes!

@Teila
Could get the grip perhaps....?

@Kandid - Yes, indeed that would be a nice idea. I've used grips before, but having the better features of the larger "brick" style bodies is something that you take for granted until you use the smaller bodies, which I must add, have become very, very competent/excellent bodies in their own right over the years. It's just that teeny-tiny size that gets me-- yelch! (warm smile). I understand that I'm an outlier so I can't blame canon for creating what works for the masses and I think they've hit a home run with their latest cameras. The R5 seems like a really nice kit coupled with premium glass.

Rumors have it that Canon will release a more pro 1DX body style mirrorless in 2021.

If you don't need 4K/60 or any higher recording mode, then the R5 has no overheating limits whatsoever.

But I will grant you that the D850 is a fine camera, at a great price these days.

@BrexitDefCom3
all cameras have up and downs. The D850 is a fine camera, but a really rudimental VIDEO AF. That alone is a dealbreaker for my style as hybrid shooter. Note that once you see 4K/120 is really hard to go back to 4K/30 only.

OK, got the BG-R10, the EF-R adapter, 1 CF ex, and one extra LP-E6(NH). This separate battery, after a full initial charge (green led lit), showed initially only 81% capacity. Weird, second time it seems it charged correctly.
BG-R10 grip: new connector type, positioning worrisome.
AF: able to lock on the eye of our crazy budgie while in some sort of erratic flight. So all good here, as advertised - think about the size of the bird.
EF-S lenses: this is just funny experimentation, but all seem to work pretty well.
Low light photography: as advertised (and reviewed), nothing significant until ISO 12k; even so, visible improvement vs 5D IV.
Wi-Fi transfer via EOS utility: first attempt (5 GHz) unsuccessful, both camera and computer freeze after the transfer of few pictures; second attempt: successful.
Sensor “cleanliness”: I’m not sure if you test this on the new cameras, but I do, and this one was 100% clean; no factory “surprises” when tested with a macro lens @f/16 and beyond. TBC...

OK. Found one very important differentiator vs 1D-X III, and the same bad habits vs the “1” series cameras: no spot meter linked AF point... come on Canon, this is, at least in my eyes, a real downside! TBC...

Seems to be working out for them.... 👍

I use my phone to track my GPS location and it's 10 times better and it does not consume the battery life on my R5. which is a perfect combination.

If you were a war correspondent, I could understand this. I have taken my camera to my share of countries, and never bother turning GPS, except when needed for astrophotography. How important is it to know exactly what two-horse town you were in while reviewing photos? Yes, nice to have. But it seems a weird dealbreaker to me.

The lack of a GPS is not a bug to work out. Not every feature can be included in every camera.

@Stakeouttoo: First, how many ILC's have built in GPS? I don't know of many.

You could get a Canon 1dx III or Nikon D6 if that is very important to you.

Second, I don't mean to be flippant, but if you have images of Rome, Athens, Paris...don't you kind of know where those images were taken?

@Stakeouttoo, you can't claim a camera is unfinished because you didn't get your beloved GPS feature.

It is finished, yet someone decided to not include GPS. I'm sure the people at canon looked at their data and decided that they weren't going to include GPS for any number of reasons. I'm sure it was related to market demand for GPS, cost of including GPS in the camera, technical issues including GPS in the camera, final shipping cost of the camera, and other things like that. I'm sure they would like to put it in, but they had to make hard decisions and decide on which features to include or not.

Since it bothers you so much, I would suggest that you buy a GPS enabled camera, and forget about the R5. The R5 isn't for everyone.

Can either of you read? The D850 scored 89.

.https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850/6

My mistake !I saw last night this post https://www.dpreview.com/news/3416960241/nikon-d850-is-the-best-camera-dxomark-has-ever-tested-first-to-hit-score-of-100#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20it's%20the%20first,number%201%20and%203%20spots. But i have not seen that is Dxo mark rating's...However i tought d850 and R5 have much higher score as thei are high end cameras.

LBS + Wes,

Thanks for the clarification, and you both have my apologies for my intemperate response.

A photo taken at native iso +6 is usable on Sony, but not on Canon because it looks horrible with loss of color and contrast. It is not an iso invariant sensor. The dpreview tests are conclusive, although they have improved a lot, are they still below what a backlit sensor with iso invariant offers or do we wait for how it is beaten in Dxomark?

@Gtoledo
I worked with a lot of 7R models. The files from the R5 are perfectly competitive for post processing. I also find that the R5 files hold up better at higher iso. Keep in mind that both 7R cameras and R5 have dual gain, but at slightly different ISO (Sony @ 640 ISO and Canon at 400 ISO). That means that Both cameras are truly iso-invariant from these ISO values, while Nikon does better from both in pulling shadows at base iso, however Sony and Canon benefit in IQ at higher iso from dual gain.

In time, competing cameras will come out and Canon may be forced to lower the R5 price. We are all in different situations, but with the quarantine limiting my photography, I can delay any new body purchase for another year or so. If the R5 doesnt come down in price, there will likely be reasonable alternatives around in a year.

@No Outlet, actually it is the Z6 because I do a little of video and, then again, it is more than enough.
Entry level????

@madeinlisboa. Very often entry level is taken to mean a camera for novices which is wrong IMHO . If you think of entry level as meaning entry into a system then it may make more sense no?

@madeinlisboa: This has nothing to do with that you can't take good images with a z6 (or when using 2) or any other camera. This has to do with a rather unique feature set, clever marketing in relation to the part of the market this camera is aimed at. Can they sell this camera for half it's price (R6 price) and still make a lot of profit on it probable they can. Will they do that? Nope because alone by that it will be qualified as a camera not aimed at professionals and for that part they made (read placed) the R6 with a cripled feature set in relation to the R5.

Wait 2 to 3 years and the R5 Mark II will be there with 8K non-overheating sensor and a R6 Mark II with 8K capabilities and it will take the same good images as these first line of models do

Kandid your check from canon came on time?? Still shilling for them here.

@zxaar
SO predictable, so weak..............👎

@plasnu
are you basing your comment on the jpg posted images or you actually downloaded the Raw files and looked at these?

Plasnu - you must be smoking something man... File quality (raw AND jpg) is just mind boggling - dream on Sony fans...

I would agree that the jpg in the posted gallery lack some level of sharpness probably because of aggressive post-processing. However the RAW files out of my R5 are spectacular. I would argue they look sharper than my A7RIII.

@plasnu: Please put that pipe down, don’t score for a couple of days and then get back to us.

@armandino - "the RAW files out of my R5 are spectacular. I would argue they look sharper than my A7RIII."

assuming that you used the same raw processor in both cases, it's because canon raws are heavily processed in-camera, as proven by canon using noise reduction to create fake d.r. on 1dxm3, r5, and r6.

i'd much rather have full control over n.r. and sharpness in post, rather than let canon do it in-camera... the overprocessed r5 jpgs that plasnu pointed out are a good example of what happens when canon does it.

Plasnu thinks shooting Sony and making green skin tones look normal is an important part of the creative process.

“ canon raws are heavily processed ”

I saw Bill Cliff and the creators of RAW Digger address this.

The all said Canon RAW files are not heavily processed and they could find no negative effects from what Canon was doing. One went so far to say it isn’t NR.
And they all agreed all manufacturers use NR in their RAW files at various ISOs.

So going by what the experts say, the people who know RAW files best, the R5 has the highest PDR of any FF camera, and what ever Canon is doing has no noticeable affect they they could find.
That sounds good to me. I wish Sony would try this with the A9 because it is a full stop lower and not quite as good as some APSC cameras. Maybe they could fix this.

@plasnu, it can't even come close to the "sony star eater" (google that) issue.

@Jerome: the new sensor from Canon looks great, DR is at least as good as the A7r3:
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20R5,Sony%20ILCE-7RM3

That makes my point stronger. Thank you. So @dpreview, why is the a9II a better value in your review?

Its a great question. The R5 does everything the A9ii does, and a heck of a lot more with near double the pixels. The R5 MSRP is $600 less.
One can argue there are rare cases where the A9ii 20 FPS mode is better, but they can also argue the R5 12 FPS mechanical shutter is better than the 10 FPS with the A9ii so all that evens out.
If you want to shoot detailed landscapes with the A9ii you should get another camera. If you want to shoot the best video you need another camera. If you want the highest DR you need another camera. Honestly it is a poor value, It does 1 thing well, but that is it.

@Onteo - "What makes the a9II a better value camera?"

-stacked sensor vs. no stacked sensor on r5 is the #1 reason
-r5 electronic shutter not usable for freezing action(see above)
-r5 must use frame duplication in the evf, due to the slow sensor readout(see above)
-a9ii has real-time evf display, it's much better
-a9ii has hi-frequency flicker reduction, no canon camera has that
-r5 overheating meltdown = r5 not usable for professional applications
-r5 e.s. only shoots at 20fps setting, can't use slower framerates
-r5 does not support older canon lenses at even 12fps, per the manual
-sony rates lenses by 15-20fps af-c: http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/support/ilc/products/ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html?id=spt
-far better native lens lineup with e-mount
-sony open mount vs. canon closed mount = few 3rd-party rf-mount lenses
-sony uses bsi sensors, canon doesn't, so canon has to use n.r. to pump up fake d.r.

etc

Some of your points are simply wrong.

That does not seem to be the case. Considering 12fps*45MP with mechanical shutter being 540MP/s I would say it is not a slow sensor readout.

Your argument about better lens lineup is debatable, EF lens lineup just seems to work wonders and Canon is working pretty hard in the RF lineup too. The evf seems to be better in the R5 than in the Sony if we follow dpreview's advice. Then the display is marked as sub standard for the a9II, while the R5's is top notch. Details you omit.

Can the A9II's BSI sensor do 45MP high DR images at 12 fps? No
Can it do 8K even if it is one second? No
Is it great for Landscape? Resolution, no, DR neither.

The ISO on the A9II is better than the R5's, that's true, and I like that. The battery lasts longer on the A9II (that is a big thing for me, coming from DSLR)

But going back to value, I don't see the A9II being better at that than the r5 and by a good bit.

Stacked sensor is more often a problem. It appears to limit max DR and it has a lot less resolution. and it costs A LOT more to manufacture.
Not having a stacked sensor will more often be a benefit when shooting everything from portraits to landscapes to wildlife where more resolution and max DR are critical.

But I guess Sony fans have to make up fake stuff to justify paying $4500 for an entry level resolution camera with low dynamic range.
Honestly the A7iii outperforms the A9ii in most cases.
I do find it funny the Sony fans are still patrolling these comments (about a different manufacture) even after a week.

@MILC...
Keep paddling that sinking canoe....waters getting deeper, crocs are circling, credibility toast 🐊🐊

@Onteo - "12fps*45MP with mechanical shutter being 540MP/s I would say it is not a slow sensor readout"

nobody cares about the mechanical shutter at 45mp, if that was the basis the a7riv at 61mp moves 610MP/s, according to your math.

@Onteo - "Your argument about better lens lineup is debatable, EF lens"

old ef lens designs are not as good as modern milc designs, that's why they aren't comparable... canon added pins to rf-mount in order to increase the performance, ef mount lenses do not have that.

unfortunately canon still doesn't have any linear voice coil af motors that i'm aware of, they are behind the lens technology of several milc companies in that respect.

@Onteo - "Can the A9II's BSI sensor do 45MP high DR images at 12 fps?"

the a7riv can do 61mp with a bsi sensor, and it doesn't use n.r. to pump up fake d.r. like all canon cameras do.

the r5 generates a lot of waste heat because it uses primitive chip designs.... overheating, fake d.r., poor battery life, etc.

Probably because A9II was compared with 1DXIII while R5 was compared with A7R3 and A7R4.
You can also say the Canon R5 is of better value than 1DXIII.
Professional sports cameras should not be compared with enthusiast cameras when it comes to value.

MilcMan - Have you even used the R5/6? Or are you just judging based on what you see from the internet?

I’ve been with Sony and Canon for years. Yes I was one to jump ship from Canon to Sony because of Sony’s great sensor technology in a mirrorless body.

I came back to Canon for the R6 and I can easily say, I won’t be going back to Sony. Canon nailed it with the sensors.

You can call it fake DR, but in the real world, it’s excellent! Excellent colors with excellent DR. Sony I always had to build a hundred profiles and still hated the colors and tones.

Sony makes great cameras, but their colors are not great.

@RyanBoston
Milcman is a long term resident of these forums screaming the Sony message - which is fine - however this often descends into other brand denigration (particularly Canon - the R5/6 have given him severe indigestion 😁) and promoting half truths as gospel. His post above is a classic - no one cares what specific tech a sensor has (BSI - 😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣) how it performs is what matters. ‘Frame duplication’, ‘overheating meltdown’ etc - a grain of truth distorted to make a ridiculous partisan point. All those gold ratings and endorsements for the R5/6 are the facts however - and the cause of his desperate bellyaching 😁😁😁😁.....

@RyanBoston - "Canon nailed it with the sensors. You can call it fake DR"

ask yourself, if using n.r. to gin up fake d.r. is such a good idea, why don't nikon/sony/panasonic/etc. do it?

when has canon ever made a bsi sensor? why do other companies spend more on bsi?

@RyanBoston - "I’ve been with Sony and Canon for years"

that's a bit strange, given that you don't have any post history on sony forums, all i see is canon and fuji :-0

@RyanBoston - "Sony makes great cameras, but their colors are not great"

raw files don't have any color, but if no color was such a big problem for you, when did you ever post on a dpr sony forum, and ask for help with it?

See what I mean.......🙄

MilcMan I’m not sure why you have a hard time understanding different cameras. Oh ya, you have never used the R5/6. You are stuck with Sony and that’s fine. Just don’t make judgements on a camera you have not used or will ever use.

Why would I ask people on the Sony group about color. I know how to build my own color DNG profiles.

Sony also has awful ergonomics. Canon pays attention to ergonomics.

I switched to Sony years ago for mirrorless and sensor technology. Canon now has that great technology. Only thing Sony has better is battery.

Why is Sony struggling lately with their cameras? Why is Canon selling so many R5/6’s?

At the end of the day they are just tools. I can give advice because I have more knowledge across the brands. You give knowledge based only on one brand. You go out of your way bashing a brand you haven’t used, yet you want people to believe you.

I saw people showing you reports of Sony cameras freezing.
For some it was a real problem.
I wonder why you don’t mention that when you keep repeating this.

And how many times have you posted your arbitrary numbers here? 5 or 6 times??? Sure looks like trolling.

@MILC man, I'm not making a comment on the R5 locking up or not. BUT... what a joke!!!!!!!!!

I don't think it takes a statistician to figure out that the referenced survey doesn't have a large enough sample size to be taken seriously.

36 people participated in the survey you link to and the results you list. It would only take a few logins to skew the results. Do you have a login?

@MILC...
Freezing, heating - there is no pleasing you guys....🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂

Kona Mike, 35 of the respondents were MILC and his pals.

@MILC man: You’re really not a Canon fan are you?

If it wasn’t for the pandemic and Canon had expected a higher number of preorders and had access to full production capacity, they would’ve been over 40% before the end of Q1 2021.

I see that Canon has again added two "new" members.

"I see that Canon has again added two "new" members."

Canon is spending good money here. They are very persistent.