2015 Roundup: Interchangeable Lens Cameras $1200-2000

Scores are based on a point in time, since we can't know what the future will bring. Expectations of what's possible can change, so newer cameras end up being held to higher standards than older ones.

I'd need to go back and look through all the underlying sub-scores to find out where the difference is but, for instance, it's become much harder to get a good score for video in the past year and a half, as newer cameras have raised the bar.

Nov 24, 2015permalink

Fotowitt

"Scores are based on a point in time..."
Certainly, how else could it possibly be - BUT in a round up at a later point in time scores really should be double checked?
E.g. FW updates do so much, in case of the em1 the c-af criticism would have to be changed into the diametral opposite imho!

Dec 20, 2015permalink

EthanP99

I shot 3 portrait sessions with my a7s yesterday. 750 photos, 1 battery used up in a time span of 5 hours. This is a typical day for me. I dont see why people say thats awful battery life.

It was also semi cold outside.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

kodacolor

I never get that type of life from my A7r. I usually go through two batteries in a few hours of shooting, luckily I now have 5 batteries.

To scrimp on power usage; not running the screen is a big saver, I also keep it in manual focus mode.

Dec 29, 2015permalink

mmcfine

I don't understand why the Canon 6D is always underestimated. Maybe it's not feature rich like the Sony but it's sensor is still one of the best.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

It actually has one of the worst Full Frame sensors on the market. Dont know where did you dig out it is one of the best? :S

Nov 23, 2015permalink

levanter

lol and where did you dig out that it has one of the worst FF sensors? Almost everyone/everywhere rated it's sensor's ability to compete with the top >_>

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Before arguing too much about whether it's the best or worst FF sensor, it's probably worth considering how big (or small) the difference is between the best and worst.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

b craw

Careful, Richard. You may undermine my raison d'être. :•{}

It is my god-given right to present rather inconsequential difference as the basis for a gradually escalating rhetorical slap fight.

...a tale as old as time.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

@levanter
well dxomark for one, and some other sites that go into the sensor tech a bit deeper... so now that i have revealed my source, can you yours that puts its sensor at the top?

Nov 23, 2015permalink

mmcfine

Sorry guys didn't want to start a sensor war here. In my own view and price/value (at the time) it seems like a great sensor and I still believe it's great. DXO and tech benchmark (like pixel peeping) doesn't match real life results and user experience.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/evaluation-canon-6d/

An interesting read:

Nov 24, 2015permalink

likewise... if anybody cant read graphs, needs to have checked more than their eyes ;)

Nov 24, 2015permalink

bildsee

@hellraiser: Laboratory benchmarks are not the only truth. As long as the IQ is fine, any laboratory scores are truly useless.
And who knows whether camera sensor manufacturers use similar technology as diesel engine manufacturers ;-)

Nov 24, 2015permalink

RFfan

An interesting video to see regarding tests, testing procedures & methods and the testers themselves can be found here:
https://youtu.be/GXNWE9cdJe8

Nov 25, 2015permalink

emfor

rfan: nice video but the music is horrible

Nov 25, 2015permalink

@hellraiser: I own a D600 and a 6D. While the shadow noise is better than the 6D, the 6D is better than older canon bodies.

But...and here is the big BUT.

Color out of the 6D is astonishing..yes a lot better than the D600 also...high iso noise is better. Maybe the d750 is more comparable.

The 6D is a good camera, if you consider it's price now...it's a steel.

Nov 26, 2015*permalink

i cant get why people continue to say color out of camera x is better than color from camera y. you know when you shoot RAW you can get identical color out of every single camera on the market?
and yes i agree that that it is photographer who is the one who makes the shoot, gear is second to him.

Nov 26, 2015permalink

Are you sure about that?

You can make the D600 have good colors but it's almost impossible to mimic the 6D output.

I use a colorchecker passport from Xrite even with that you can't get them to look the same.

Also trying to do that in every photo...is a living hell.

Nov 26, 2015permalink

https://500px.com/diegofreitas

some of my work:

Nov 26, 2015permalink

@papparazzi,
yep, ofc you can. you must first and foremost remove base curve that most of raw editors apply for themselves and start form scratch with a flat RAW file... not that hard, 2 mouse clicks :)
btw, love your shoots...

Nov 26, 2015*permalink

Sorry Hellraiser, it's not my experience...

Thank you :)

Nov 26, 2015permalink

CameraLabTester

The comments have dwindled into a trickle for this category.

A clear indicator that general consumers will only be willing to pay for the features that they need and have smarter budgets.

Unless one is a professional, it really is such an uncool thing, these days, to be strapped with heavy DSLRs as huge necklaces.

It makes the common enthusiast tourist like a wallet endowed wannabee or pretend pro.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

dholl

nobody thinks about how cool their camera looks...unless you're a wannabe hipster?

Handling is very important. DSLR's have unique handling which mirrorless hasn't matched, or when you do get the odd mirrorless in DSLR-shape, it still lacks the optical viewfinder which many prefer.

Personally I prefer DSLR because I can use them without thinking too much. A mirrorless I often find is too small, fiddly and display-driven.

If you think it's "uncool" to be seen with a DSLR that reveals where your priorities are when looking for a camera. And that's fine. It's just not how most people think.

Nov 23, 2015*permalink

b craw

The holy crotches of the respective gospels:

Mirrolessians - 'DSLR's are bricks of burden, and merely a status symbols of every uncle (or aunt) wanting to be confused for a professional sports or wedding photographer.'

DSLRists - 'Mirrorless is the false idol of every hipster; and OVF's are the only means to see the true face of god.'

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Ziad joseph

@CameraLabTester,
I think I understand where you may be going with this but I disagree. I am not a pro but love photography especially for my travels and the prospect of getting high IQ and functionality in a body like the D610 for under 1.5K is attractive for me, while the new Sony options are top notch also I simply cannot afford it.

Nov 29, 2015permalink

Iso1975

I thought about buying an A7II many times...
But then I read that
-it has a crappy AF in low light - uncomparable with the one on the EM-1
-The battery life is awful (I can get more than 1000 shots with 1 charge on my Pana G3)
-The sensor is really not as good as the X-T1
-camera is actually as heavy as a normal DSLR and lenses are too expensive and big
So what are the pros for this camera vs the competition...?

Nov 23, 2015permalink

ChuckTa

I only have the A7 (also have XE1) and A7 sensor is certainly better than the Fuji XE1 (same as X-T1). And A7 sensor is a tiny bit better than my Samsung NX500 (both are very close, hence the NX500 is my most used camera among the three due to small size).
The advantage of A7II is it has IBIS and it can take most of the manual lens out there and it can use Canon AF lens with adapter.

Nov 23, 2015*permalink

ChuckTa

PS. Don't get the A7 kit if you shoot any landscape, it doesn't really get sharp at the edges even when stopped down.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Iso1975

I was actually thinking on getting it for landscapes, portraits and concerts/sports/low light... I would still be using M43 though...

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Mordi

Amazing how people who don't actually use a camera beyond picking it up for a minute in a camera shop, and reading the trolls, can form such negative opinions of it, and present them like gospel.

I moved to Sony after a decade with Nikon DSLRs, and before that, several with Canon FD mount and a Leica M. The first time I looked through a Sony EVF, I was hooked. All my great Nikon, DF and Leica glass "came alive." I've run out of wall space for 24x36 and 16x24 prints, get high praise for web videos from clients, and have enormous satisfaction from "new classics" like the FE 35mm f2.8 and the Voigtlander 15mm Series III. Being liberated from needing to care about technically superior new sensors and lenses is heaven.

I now spend my money visiting interesting places all over the globe and many happy hours post-processing on my retina MacBook Pro, And envy no one. Life with an A7 means the end of gear envy for me.

Nov 25, 2015permalink

dkiceman

Mordi.... which A7 model do you have ?

Jun 8, 2016permalink

Rich Rosen

Even if we allow for changes in technology, I do not understand how the Sony with an 82 score from DPR was rated best, while the Nikon D610 with a 87 score wasn't even rated in the top 3. Actually I do understand. The top three are mirrorless. I am guessing that DPR (amazon) sees more potential in selling that type of camera, as opposed to the "old and tired" DSLR.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

Bill Ferris

Among the advances Sony made in the two years since the D610 was introduced...the A7II, breaking new ground with the following:

- lower IQ
- "Meh" low light performance
- mediocre AF
- awful battery life
- one less SD card slot
- limited native lens selection
- tiny fumbly controls
- a menu that makes Nikon's seem like Apple-esque creative brilliance...now, that's an accomplishment!

Yeah, that Sony's a real industry leader.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

bernardf12

Exactly, Sony now has to fix these issues in the next release of the A7. If they fail to do so, mirror flapping will still be the only sensible choice in this segment.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Mordi

Mr. Ferris, you missed a few...

-- A light-amplifying EVF that lets you see, compose and shoot in light like the new sensors, where an OVF is black...an EVF that provides instant confirmation without ever taking you eye from the finder.

-- The most accurate/fast manual MF since the Leica M series, freeing one from the tyranny of letting electronics decide what is the subject on which you should focus.

-- Ability to shoot with lenses made for Nikon, Canon, Leica, Contax, Minolta, Konica, and other brands, with adapters that cost you less than $20 each. Try that with your DSLR.

-- A battery no bigger or heavier - or more expensive than a 36 exposure roll of Tri-X - that you can shoot more landscapes than Ansel Adams shot in a year, or street images than Cartier-Bresson shot in 3 months.

-- Light, compact bodies that let you travel the world with a pair in a small bag.

Like Apple, Sony earns lots of hate from other brand users - and more competitive switches than Can/Nikon earns.

Nov 25, 2015permalink

Woodbird

Choosing a camera without a system consideration is meaningless.

perhaps a better question would be "which camera should I buy if already chose XXX system". For example if I already pickup Canon, which shall I buy for 1200-2000? The problem is that for this kind questions, there are often only one choice. They don't usually sell multiple models within the same price range, except for the low end.

So if one already picked up a system and has a target budget, he doesn't not really need to ask the above question. The next best question would be "which system should I choice?" But I believe anyone in their right mind at DPR would not get into this sort of flame war.

In short, it is very unlikely that those sorts of "Roundup" will help people to do informed decisions. They at most are meaningless and at worst misleading.

When I bought my first DSLR, what I really wanted to see was a detailed comparison between the Nikon and Canon systems, show me the difference, and so I can decide which is better for me. The same feature difference can be an advantage for some and a disadvantage for others and doesn't matter to the rest. We cannot objectively say which is better. But at least we can objectively show the readers what's unique to each system. I belive they will be much more useful.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

MikeDPR

Best for video selection should have gone to NX1 also. NX1's unmatched 4K details and superior AF capability in video mode put it in a class of its own in my opinion.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

(unknown member)

Yes, it's also a class on its own because it's the only camera in the list witch belongs to a dead system. In a buyers guide Samsung NX should not be mentioned anymore.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

MikeDPR

@Thorgrem
Can you link to a reliable source stating the NX is dead? In the US where this web site primarily caters to, it's still very much alive as far as I can see. Major online stores like B&H, Adorama and Amazon still stock them and there's no fire sale either. Samsung also stopped selling laptops in Europe but they still make and sell laptops in the US. Should US based reviewers stop recommending Samsung laptops because they are no longer available in Europe?

Besides, even if they are discontinued, I still think NX1 represents a good value. Yes, I think it's that good. :)

Nov 22, 2015permalink

tecnoworld

It's ridicolous that these ppl go on saying nx1 is dead. It's better than cameras most (all?) that will be out in 2016, but these ppl would like not to see it mentioned. Has the best video, the highest burst, the deepest buffer, the fastest I/O, the better EVF, the better video, the best APSC sensor, but no, it should not be mentioned since they are exiting european market and some rumor stated that it's being discontinued.

Nov 26, 2015permalink

aliciagzl

Thanks for the info

Nov 21, 2015permalink

aramgrg

Sensor of A7 ii sucks!!!
I thought it is the same as the one in D610, however, it has around 1 stop less performance. I rented one a month back and was disappointed with IQ.
At below 2000 one can easily get D750.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

PVCdroid

Oh the hate for Sony. So sad... until they buy one to use their existing lenses. User after user confirms the jaw dropping difference.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

How was shooting video through the OVF on the D610 or D750.?

Nov 21, 2015permalink

RadPhoto

@ttran88

He never said he's a videographer. I've had my current cameras for 2-3 years and I only used the video for 2 mins.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

He never said he didn't shoot videos. There's more to a camera than it's sensor, ask a Canon shooter they know it best.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

martin001

it might surprise you that many of us have these cameras and couldn't care less about their video performance. anyway, if I would be interested in video, personally I wouldn't look for this type of bulky camera, rather different form factor (ie for sports there are gopro-types, for walk around some pro compacts etc.). For video, my bar for quality expectations is much lower, no need for interchangeable lenses

Nov 22, 2015permalink

sh10453

Hi Richard,
Perhaps it would make better comparison if the reviews are based on sensor size rather than MSRP.

I would think it makes sense to have FF, APS-C, M 4/3, 1", etc., categories.
The FF (and other categories) can also be split to sub-categories (the $2,000 or less range, the $2,000-$3,000 range, and the >$3,000 range for FF, for example).
Then the comparison would be apples to apples.

The top 3 to 5 winners of a sub-category could be arranged in a matrix.
Left column would have the most important features (sensor, frame rate, sealing, dual disk, AF, etc.).
Top raw would have the cameras.
The body of the matrix would have feature ratings on a scale of 1-10, because no single camera in a category is the best in ALL the features.

Price should be current Amazon price (fairly competitive), or B&H, etc., rather than the MSRP.

Such matrix would be far more helpful because different photographer have different needs for different features.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

To all those complaining about the pricing used.
If you go by retail prices, which website/brick & mortar would be your base? Add to that prices fluctuate, based on region, forex, demand, sales, etc. (global site after all)
All this causes a slew of problems/considerations, would they do a weighted average for pricing? (to be fair) It will take the already tedious amount of time these reports take and just multiply it by 10, ugh... going by MSRP makes more sense in terms of providing the user the quickest and easiest to understand report, especially if they're going to release these articles in time for the holiday kickoff.
At most you could ask DPReview to input a note at the end indicating global pricing issues etc. Although it's not as if consumers don't realize that prices aren't set in stone.
(auditing 101)

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

MAC

"DPR's Gold" doesn't translate into what one should buy imo...it's about the system when buying a camera that will last more than a fleeting moment in time

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Henrik Herranen

The title for the last page is: "Which camera should I buy?"

Regardless of how good a camera is, how can you with clear conscience recommend putting money into a system that the manufacturer has abandoned, without even mentioning the fact? Yes, Samsung NX1, It's you I'm talking about!

Having zero consideration of a manufacturer's commitment to the camera system and lens selection they sell is doing a great disservice to Canon and Nikon, who have built camera systems and wonderful lenses for decades, and who will be there long after the little charlatans of the 2010's have disappeared.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

MAC

agree, sink money into fleeting gear and it's gone in no time

Nov 21, 2015permalink

SirSeth

Pulling out of the German market is different than throwing thyself upon thy sword as many of you have seemed to indicate is happening with Samsung.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Ad B

Hi,

the Nikon D750 should be in this group.
Not in the bottemline of the next group!

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Rajeshb

Just announce the A7rII as the winner of the remaining group.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

the a7r2 was already announced winner of its group

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Rajeshb

It is part of the High-end Interchangeable Lens Cameras $2000+ group, which has not been announced yet

Nov 21, 2015permalink

kwa_photo

The NX1 may be a fine camera...BUT, how can it be "recommended" for someone when it's being discontinued in Europe (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8930601010/samsung-nx1-discontinued-in-europe-rumors-say-yes) and it's likely going to spread that way to the Americas and Asia as well. Recommending someone buy into a NEW system that was just getting its feet wet, but now is looking to be going away, doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I drove a Saab for many years (9-5 sedan) and loved it. When I needed a new car, Saab had just announced it was going to sell off the car division. Did I buy another, even though I would have loved to? Nope! I'd steer clear of the NX the same way...great camera, good luck with parts and service down the road.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

Abel89er

Well, maybe you'll end up needing some lenses that won't get developed, it's not a fair comparison with cars althought I can understand your point.

But when you buy a car, you won't have to spend more if you buy into another brand for your next car. If I want to swap from Sony E mount to Canon EF I'll have to spend money not just on the body but on the lenses.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

@kwa

i've got the old NX100, NX1000. So if someday the 20-50 Kitlens breaks, i'll have to look on ebay germany, because i think then i wouldn't get the 16-50 PZ as replacement then into local stores or onto the net, for instance then...

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Katsura

I'm on my 3rd Saad 9-5 and it's done 300000 km. When it goes I will get another one. I shot Pentax for years before switching to Olympus. Guess I like underdogs.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

Ed Steichen

I'm on my 5th Saab overall. A 9-5. When it goes I'll buy my 6th Saab. I shoot Fuji, which in a way I feel like is a sort of Saab of cameras. Cheers.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Katsura

I'm on my 4th. There's something about them. The idiosyncratic UI just feels right for me. I'd also like to get a 99 or 900 as a restoration project

Nov 21, 2015permalink

ChuckTa

Owning Sony, Fuji, Olympus and Samsung. I have to agree Samsung has the best UI of them. It just has this "intuitiveness" to it.

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Owning Canikon, Samsung, Sony, Pentax & Panasonic... i do like the Nikon Menues most.

Nov 23, 2015*permalink

Mike FL

I really like to see SONY to put a dial on the left top of all its A7xyz, such as a "Driver mode dial" as seem from Panasonic.

Why not?

Nov 21, 2015permalink

I would like an explanation as to why original MSRP was used. What meaning does that have to anyone? I get that it shows the aspirations of manufacturers at the release, but is that what this is about? How does that mean anything to a buyer?

"Gee, this camera would be GREAT, but, sadly, 2 years ago the manufacturer set their MSRP equal to a camera just now released, failing to see into the future and set the price lower to compete with non-existent technology".

Really, DPR?

Nov 21, 2015permalink

CameraLabTester

Just keep in mind that this roundup has it's reference to the thickness of your wallet and not the bag of sweet goodies that come with the camera.

Take two micro SD cards and read the review again in the morning...

Nov 21, 2015permalink

DS HK

For 4 full frame roundups:
A7 80% silver
A7II 82% silver
6D 83% Silver
D610 87% gold
and the best overall full frame winner is 82% silver A7II, what's wrong?
Obviously, the score % system not match with the 2015 round-up result.
What else criteria are used in the round-up?

Nov 21, 2015permalink

TrojMacReady

For one, the review score for tye A7II does not reflect the added functionality and AF performance of the new firmware update. That adresses a couple of key negatives.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

PerL

Apparently the system does not mean much or anything in these comparisons. How can the system camera Sony A7 II be considered a better choice than the system cameras Nikon D610 or Canon 6D?
And "best overall" when DPReviews user report showed how much the Sony EVF/AF system lags traditional DSLRs in the field for action shooting?

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

In fairness, the D610 and 6D aren't great sports cameras either. And there are areas (fast lenses and moving people) where the a7R II will outperform most (all?) DSLRs.

Equally, the limitations imposed by not having an optical viewfinder might be seen as a benefit by anyone wanting to shoot video, since the a7R II doesn't have to abandon its primary AF system (and shoots MUCH better footage, too).

That said, your point about systems as a whole is a fair one. The very nature of systems is that they offer a wide range of possibilities for different people and different types of shooter, so it's impossible for us to decide whether one system provides the lenses or accessories that people might want.

One system having the most lenses isn't necessarily an advantage if all systems offer the lens you want. Nor does a large lens lineup help if it's missing the one thing you want, etc.

Hence we leave a lot of decisions about systems to the reader.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

We Demand a recount.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Rooru S

@Richard Butler...I'm quite sure you got things mixed up. PerL was talking about the a7 II. Why did you mention the a7R II??

Nov 21, 2015permalink

What can I say? It's been a long week.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Richard - you and the drp staff certainly have a tough task here. NP way to make everyone happy with test parameters. But, in this price range at least, it seems the dslrs have a better focus system for most people most of the time. If you take it up a price level, then yes the a7rII has the new super bad (in a good way) af system. But if we limit ourselves to this range I think the canikon DSLRs probably are superior. Which I think is why there are lots of grumblings here.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

If you take a look at the trend, video capabilities in a camera is becoming a top priority for many buyers . And all dslrs fall face flat when video is taken into consideration.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Eric Hensel

"But, in this price range at least, it seems the dslrs have a better focus system for most people most of the time."
Most? I think this says more about your needs than 'most people'

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Rishi Sanyal

Precisely. 'Most people most of the time' aren't served very well by an AF system that can't even detect human subjects, and can't even guarantee focus was actually achieved precisely when it says it was. Or that requires them to know to focus and recompose since there are a measly 11 points barely covering much of the frame, or that doesn't in AF-C just stick to their initial subject if the subject moves laterally, etc. etc.

DSLRs certainly have their advantages - shooting action in continuous drive/bursts, for example - but they're becoming increasingly numbered. And it'd be silly to say 'most people' are shooting pro sports in continuous drive... :)

Nov 21, 2015permalink

If you are buying a body in this price range, the great likelihood is that you are not a beginner and you probably know how and what you shoot. So, if you need a DSLR AF system, you probably know it. If you are shooting portrait or landscape, by all means, get a mirror less system that can provide a higher level of focus accuracy. My guess is that many people in this price range do shoot moving subjects. But I am just guessing.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Eric Hensel

Many people in this price range wish to manual focus, sometimes, (legacy lenses, anyone?) --maybe just to say they did... and this is a far more gratifying experience with an EVF.
" if you need a DSLR AF system, you probably know it." Yes, but that 'need' is shrinking rapidly. If my main interest was sports, and probably BIF, I'd get a d750. But it isn't.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

chlamchowder

I could equally say that if manual focus experience is your primary concern, you probably know it. Whenever I have a manual lens on my DSLR and hand it to someone else, they ask how to get it to autofocus.

With regards to focus, even CDAF can't guarantee focus is achieved precisely, especially if the subject is moving (even slowly). No AF system will work 100% of the time.

And it's not just pro sports - it's any kind of moving subject. With kids, pets, non-pro sports, and wildlife, better AF tracking is nice to have.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

PerL

@ Richard Butler
I think you should state in the future as a pro or con if a system is more or less limited vs the competition. In the case of the Sony I dont see how, no matter how it is twisted or turned, it can be considered as equal to the the Canon or Nikon system.
I will also add, although that is a different discussion, that the fact that the DSLRs Nikon D610 or Canon 6D aren't pro sports cameras doesn't make them similar to EVF cameras with funky AF-systems in that capability. As for catching the decisive moment they are probably much better. And it is not only for pro sports. Many buys expensive cameras in the hope of getting good shots of their sporting children. And there are many, many other situations where you want to catch a fleeting moment.

Nov 22, 2015*permalink

PerL

@Rishi,
If you were talking about the the Instagram/selfie generation you might have a point. But in this price range people want to have control. It is part of the fun.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

Daniel Lauring

Dpreview needs to rewrite the Samsung NX1 portion with the HUGE caveat that Samsung has abandoned their camera program and there is no future lenses or suipport.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

http://www.androidheadlines.com/2015/11/report-samsung-exit-digital-camera-business-soon.html

I would totally agree except there is the small inconvenience that your statement isn't true.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

miketala

I have no idea if it's true.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

It's a shame...not long ago Samsung said they want to be a huge piece of the cake, and become the leader...but i think when they'd miss out our german market here, they'd possible fade out on other country regions within time...months, or better said years..also...germany is a highly competitive market for any camera brand, Samsung is best known here for some kind of electronics, smartphones of course also since the original S-series....but cameras...i think it's more traditional here, in other words: canikon, simply like that...on public places, festivals, events & exhibitions so far, i do see people with canikon 95% the time, then seldom sony, and way rarely somebody with a pana, or olympus cam...and even less someone with pentax (in fact, just 2 ppl during the past 4-5 years here spotted with a pentax DSLR)..that says much about market share....just my 2 cents.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

I agree that the signs are not pointing in a good direction. But Samsung has made no statement saying they are exiting the business. I have no Samsung equipment, but if I found an nx1 on firesale I could be tempted.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

yes, a NX1 for 499 bucks on firesale.... and 499 for the 16-50 S, too....but i have enough gear, don't need new tech.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Mark K

Comparing to Sony, Samsung is financially much healthier. They started NX from scratch and have made amazingly sharp lenses. IMHO, Samsung is the only company with the most potential to develop in camera industry. However, I see more commitment from Sony than Samsung.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

jesus_freak

Sony and Samsung remind me of college football players at the draft. Both are extremely talented, but one has better work ethic and persistence than the other. Sony is constantly introducing new bodies that re-affirm their commitment to their customers. Heck, Sony JUST pulled out of the Betamax market! Sony have had lots of product failures (i.e. DAT tapes, Minidiscs, etc), but stick with them for a LONG time.

It just goes to show that as brilliant as Samsung engineers are, all the talent in the world cannot replace work ethic, and cannot buy loyalty.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

DAT was 1st no FAILURE, still being used as data storage into some professional systems, and also being used in studios, still to date. It was the *best* before HiFi/HighEnd CD Recorders became avialable, simply as that. And it sounded way good back into it's heyday. Still have & love my 57ES, even i couldn't afford a DTC-77ES back into it's day. BetaMax was a failure for sure, JVC's VHS wasn't technically the best.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Betamax was the better format, and it still survived behind the scenes in the production world, so I guess it wasn't really a failure overall...but a failure in the consumer market

Nov 21, 2015permalink

jesus_freak

DAT and Betamax emphasize my points. Sony rewarded their customers' loyalty to the formats with long support, which is why professionals stuck with DAT and Betamax for so long. Most DAT and Betamax users moved on to other formats long before Sony pulled the plug. Users can still buy Memory Stick for their pre-2010 Sony cameras.

This is in stark contrast to Samsung's ambivalence towards its NX users.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Mark K

However there are numerous other attempts Sony made from their innovation. Costs dumped into R&D must be skyhigh and courage to face failure is another. This is something Samsung cannot compare with.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Just Ed

Owned a D600 and now have two 6D's and also use a 5D mkiii. The 6D is quite uderrated. In my experience it focuses far better than Nik's D600 particularily in low light. My point is more focus points does not equal a better focusing system. I recently took a frame of a luminous flashlight in a dark room using autofocus and exposure and the 6D did quite well. Yesterday took pics of a friend and her foster 9 month old hyper energy pointer. Not a single frame was out of focus on the 6D. Now, had I taken the 5D mkiii with me that would have been my go to. But Canon's under rated ff can be had refurbed for under a thousand bucks and will probably be cheaper if they replace it next Spring. It is an image taking machine which adds wifi and gps (use the latter often for travel and events). All my glass is L glass so that helps overall performance. 24-70L, 70-200 f/4 L and also use 100-400 mkii L..

Nov 20, 2015permalink

PIXJIM

You are right about the 6D, it is an underrated camera with equal or better output than a 5D mk 3. However, the future is mirrorless and DPR knows it...

Nov 21, 2015permalink

MarkInSF

They included the Canon as one of their secondary recommendations and omitted the Nikon. That doesn't sound like underrating the Canon unless you think it should have been rated above the Sony, a camera with image quality second to none in this category, a very effective and versatile autofocus system and superior video. If you need the specific capabilities of a DSLR the Canon looks like a fine choice.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

He's saying that the 6D is underrated, not that DPR is panning Canon (which they're not), and the 6D *is* underrated.

You have to move up to another class for Nikon and Sony to get the level of low-light focusing and noise control that the 6D brings to the party. That's why I own one.

If I were to make any change, it'd be to a D750, which sports similar capabilities, but at twice the price plus changing out my lenses, it really isn't worth it, to me :).

Nov 21, 2015permalink

TrojMacReady

Betamax was a failure in the consumer market but lived on as Betacam in the camera market for a very long time.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Just Ed

Thanks John.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

No worries :).

Nov 22, 2015permalink

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-6D-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-II___836_795_483

Someday if my 5D fails, i'd get a 6D in mint condition 2nd hand...but otherwise, i am completely fine & set with the 5D....the 5D III is slightly worse in IQ terms vs 6D, according to DxOMark, and 2 MP more.

Anyway, it's sad that Canon couldn't keep up yet with Nikon in DR terms.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

It's not that they can't keep up with low-ISO DR (they're competitive, and even superior, at higher ISOs), it's that they haven't chosen to make the costly adjustments to their product lines.

And generally speaking, *most* shooters don't need it.

I mean, how often will your composition benefit from boosting shadows four or five stops? Will it even look natural?

Nov 23, 2015permalink

IvanM

You know we all buy what we want and there are really not bad cameras out there...I've had a 6D for the last two years and use it professionally all the time, and oof image just don't happen, no matter what anyone says, I also got a M3 mirror less to see what the fuss is about. Very nice little camera but when I need dependable, easy to use high image quality I turn to my 6D...it just works, every time....so when the new 6Dmk2 is announced sometime next year I will be very keen to see what they come up with or even the 5dm4...mirror less its a nice little toy that can produce brilliant images just like dslr...but for me a dslr is a no brainer for professional use and that's what my next camera will be...as for Sony its great that they come out with all this new technology because it does keep Canikon on its toes....but face reality dslr is here to stay for a very very long time still, like it or not...no matter how much the reviewers here try and sway us otherwise...

Nov 23, 2015permalink

Jim Salvas

With the recent price drop, the E-M1 should have been included in the previous camera group. It's now under $1,000.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Since DPreview based their categorisation on MSRP at launch, this is irrelevant.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Jim Salvas

I missed that qualification, but it seems irrelevant to prospective buyers, who supposedly represent the audience for these round ups.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Scintilla Aquila

@noirdesir: Not MSRP at launch, but _current_ MSRP according to Amazon. Which, for the E-M1 body only, is $1,299.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

I'm pretty sure one of the DPreview guys commented in one of the roundups that they selected MSRP at launch as this shows in which price bracket the manufacturer wanted to position the camera.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Robert Garcia NYC

Oly with upgrade, please do a recount😊

Nov 21, 2015permalink

if you go by retail prices, which website/brick & mortar would be your base? Add to that prices fluctuate, based on region, forex, demand, etc. All this causes a slew of problems/considerations, would they do a weighted average? ugh... going by MSRP makes more sense in terms of providing the user the quickest and easiest to understand report, at most you could ask DPReview to input a note at the end indicating global pricing issues etc. (auditing 101)

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

Some cameras left out, others stuffed into this price range when they are clearly below it...

The last round-up included cameras above that range when accounting for a lens. This one includes cameras whose body only price is WELL below the range. And where the heck is the D750?

These things lose their meaningfulness if they are not using an accurate and fair means of sorting. It seems very much like you have "bumped" some cameras up in weight class, just to make your article more interesting.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

One more commenter that didn't read the fine print which explains that the groupings were based on MSRP (body only) at launch. And didn't read the 50+ comments which discussed this aspect so far.

Also one more commenter who assumes malice ('bumped cameras to make article more interesting') where external factors are the actual reason. Why do so many people assume a conspiracy and foul play when something happens they don't have an immediate explanation for. Lots of stuff happens without a guiding hand being responsible for every aspect. It's called coincidence showing up in a system that is bit more complex where things depend on more than one factor.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

Except that at least 1 of these cameras has an MSRP putting it out of this bracket... Which brings their claim into question.

One more commenter who didn't bother to actually check the MSRP's. But hey, you got a great post there. Well written. Save it for some other time.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Do you really believe what you are saying? That DPreview is stating very clearly that it is using MSRP (at launch) and then consciously breaking that rule (for no real reason)? That DPreview is intentionally lying on something they know will be found out in no time?

I don't know how somebody could think that DPreview would be so stupid, except ... well, for the obvious reason.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Jim Forever

Really surprised to not see Nikon D610 included in the winners!!! The best affordable FF at the price of an APS-C!!!! Simply the best IQ which beats canon/Fuji etc high end FF/APS-C cams!! Amazing low light performance excellent lens selection. Wonder how Samsung has even featured here?:)

Nov 20, 2015permalink

My thoughts exactly.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Just Ed

I see it there.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Jonathan F/2

They want the sheep to think DSLRs are dinosaurs because you need to spend money on a camera that isn't weather sealed, doesn't have dual card slots, doesn't have a long battery life and doesn't have a comprehensive native lens system!

Nov 21, 2015permalink

I don't think they "want you to think anything". But they are a major internet news and review outlet and mirrorless are the hot thing right now. DSLR are pretty boring by comparison. New models are mostly just evolutionary. But to me, at the present moment, DSLR are still a better tool for stills photography.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

ybizzle

The 7DII (which I own) is perhaps the most versatile of the bunch. You get the best AF performance, weather sealing, and frame rate while giving up a tad in the IQ dept and high ISO performance. For me it was a no brainer as I don't pixel peep and it is mainly used for club photography with flash so fast low light AF was key. It will also come in handy for my sports shoots! ;)

Nov 20, 2015*permalink

Agreed. The IQ differences between these cams are slight compared to AF differences. And in af, 7dmkII murders all contenders here pretty easily.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Greg VdB

And yet, it would have been even much more versatile if it had an articulated touchscreen, like the one on my 70D. I didn't think I'd find it usefull at all before I got that cam, but everybody that ever shoots video (focus pulling), low/high POV work, or from a tripod (in my case astrophotography and timelapses) would benefit greatly.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

ybizzle

Yes it would have been nice to have the articulating screen and touch controls but I don't shoot video so it never impacted my decision. There is no perfect camera. Buy the one that best works for your needs. The 7Dii is that camera for me.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

sensibill

Ah, the shrieking of APS-C and Canikon fans. By all means, let's call APS-C IQ differences 'slight' when they aren't...

Dec 12, 2015permalink

ybizzle

I'm not a pixel peeper so "slight" to me might be mean "vast" to you. I just said there is no perfect camera. Pick the right tool for the job and call it a day.

Dec 12, 2015permalink

sensibill - well Nikon fans (the second half of CaNikon) are not complaining about IQ. They are doing pretty well. I shoot Nikon exclusively, but I know that the IQ differences that most complain about here would be shrunk to almost nothing in 99% of shooting conditions if the operators knew how to use the equipment.

Dec 19, 2015permalink

Aroart

The Nikon d750 is in this price zone , wonder why t hey did not include it...

Nov 20, 2015permalink

If I got a penny every time somebody asked why camera X is not included because she or he didn't get the memo that the groupings were based on MSRP at launch, I'd be very rich.

I think DPreview should have put up a floating message, like in license agreements, where the reader has to acknowledge that she or he has understood that the MSRP was used to select the cameras for each group.

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

Aroart

I've owned about half of these cameras on the list and couldn't keep them all so I settled on the 7dm2 purely on ergonomics build quality and lense selection...yes I know there a bit better iq in some others but what good is iq if it's not a great camera in bad weather and focus in extreme situation...I also tested lots of these cameras with average people looking at there photo and most chose the pics I took with fuji and canon....

Nov 20, 2015permalink

chlamchowder

To be fair, the D610 currently sells for a bit less than the 7D II, and gives better IQ while still offering weather sealing and very good AF tracking.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Till the light drops, then the D610 shooter is SOL ;).

Nov 21, 2015permalink

blink667

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

chlamchowder

Why would the D610 shooter have issues in low light?

That FF sensor would give better noise performance. I've also used the D600 to shoot action at night (or really poorly lit gyms), and it does a pretty decent job in terms of autofocus.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

Noise performance isn't an issue if you can't focus. The 6D is sure in very low light- the D6x0 is next to useless.

Nov 22, 2015permalink

RadPhoto

And why would one buy NX1 if Samsung is going to be out of camera business? Personally, I would't!

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Sigma82

they said NX1 is discontinued, not that they are out of camera business. Could mean a nx2 is on the road?

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Let me guess who wins the next round up of $2000+ high end cameras, Canon 5Ds/R?

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Uh, you are joking right? You know the winner will be the A7II, right? Followed closely by the A7sII.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

I meant A7rmkII.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Sorry no joking when you talk about Canon. And let's not forget it's 50MP.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

I think Nokia had a 40+mp smart phone. Probably in the same league as the canon product.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

50MP >40MP Nuff said

Nov 21, 2015permalink

True. I would feel pretty stupid shooting weddings with a 40mp smart phone if there was a 50mp option.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

sensibill

The crying of the Sony haters is hilarious.

Dec 12, 2015permalink

Only Santa 🎅 knows who's been naughty or nice. BTW where's the next round up of cameras?

Dec 12, 2015permalink

smozes

I guess the limitations of the medium dictate this sort of "body MSRP roundup", whereas a more helpful survey would have tried to assemble a realistic system.

Nov 20, 2015*permalink

Accept that if they were going by body only prices, several of these cameras would have been in the previous range...

They seem to be using whatever price is convenient for the sake of the article they want to write.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

In a system where online resellers might show you a different price depending on the time of day, a 'realistic' system is equally arbitrary.

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Rooru S

Why is the A7 on this list?

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Sigma82

I thought the Leica T had a 16mpx sensor, not 24. Am O wrong?

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Nov 21, 2015permalink

Sigma82

yes, but in this comparison the initially wrote it was based around a 24mpx sensor. that's why I asked

Nov 21, 2015*permalink

We fully agree, my point was to show to DPreview that they didn't check what they had written along (and what was in their camera database).

Nov 21, 2015permalink

rjx

I really liked the Fujifilm system. But I haven't looked back since I got the A7II. Sony & Zeiss released a lot of very good glass in a somewhat short period of time to make up for the lackluster selection, imo.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Combatmedic870

I am drooling over the 25,55 and 85 Zeiss lenses they have, optically extremely good.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Lexxie

I have the Leica T with the zoom and the 23mmF2. After Firmware update 1.4 fantastic !! Before Fuji XE1+2, Nikon D70 to D3200. Note: the T has 16MP sensor not 24MP.

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Nathan8

My camera didn't win...

*hides in the corner and cries*

Nov 20, 2015permalink

Combatmedic870

Mine weren't even in any of the round ups...I don't know how I should react to this.

Nov 20, 2015permalink