Cosina announces $780 Voigtl&#228;nder Nokton 23mm F1.2 for Fujifilm X-mount cameras

I like Voigtlander lenses and own a couple, but why have the f1.2 offerings for Fuji got over-ambitious DOF scales? Having a decent DOF scale is meant to be a benefit of having a helical focusing MF lens. Look at the image of the lens - the DOF scale with the lens focused at infinity is showing that everything is in focus from 0.5m/18" to infinity at f16. No way. Check it against a DOF app like DOF Master, and at the same settings it will tell you that the near limit is about 1.65m. Much more realistic. Cosina need to look at their COC choice.

4 months agopermalink

To me on mirrorless, DOF scale is pretty " feature" on MF lenses, it's just so easy to tell exactly what is in focus what is not in the EVF when combined with the Focus Magnification, you can see everything yourself, no need to guess or rely on any scale, numbers, I shoot with Voigtlander and Loxia lenses mainly since the A7RII days and now with A7R IV and I have never found DOF scale useful.

4 months agopermalink

@ Dan_168. If you choose other strategies, that's fine. Other people will have their own and some of us like DOF scales, at least to use on some occasions. I guess my thinking is that if you're going to have a DOF scale, then it should at least be calculated for a COC that is realistic and useful. The scale shown on the 23/1.2 is completely unrealistic - if anyone thought they could achieve the depth that scale indicates, they would be sadly mis-lead.

4 months agopermalink

@Rod McD:
Of course it's all personal preference how we do things. the point you brought up is one of the reason I never rely on DOF scale, most of the lens i have tried the DOF scale is not that accurate, especially with the modern high resolution sensor like my A7R IV, combined with the larger aperture lens that I normally use, DOF scale is even less accurate, think shooting a 85mm F 1.2/1.4 for portrait, and relying on DOF and trying to get a eyes in focus, see how may in focus picture one can get.

And for stop down landscape picture, most of the manual focus Voigtlander, Zeiss, I simply rotate the focus ring to the infinite end until it hit the hard stop, and perhaps move 1/16 inch back, and 99.99% of the time, the whole picture is in focus, that's why I personally don't find focus scale useful at all whether I am shooting wide open or stop down.

4 months agopermalink

@Dan_168 I certainly agree in relation to wide apertures. I couldn't see anyone using DOF scales for f1.2! For landscapes at middle or smaller apertures it's a different matter, provided of course that the scale is accurate. (My point is that if you're going to have one at all, it should be). Your strategy will often work, particularly if you're shooting for a landscape that includes infinity distances - but again it depends on the precise situation.

4 months agopermalink

raizans

I think depth of field scales were standardized pre-WWII. It would be great if they updated it!

4 months agopermalink

Digitalharry

Why the endless stream of manual lenses? At this pricepoint I would buy the Fuji 1.4 and have both manual and AF. And even Viltrox is way cheaper than this lens. There might be a slight difference optically but 450 dollars more for less functionality is overpriced in my opinion.

4 months agopermalink

Read the specs.

4 months agopermalink

Digitalharry

which specs do you mean? 1.2 vs 1.4?

4 months ago*permalink

Bingo.

4 months agopermalink

And some people love a real helix over AF with focus-by-wire MF.

4 months agopermalink

Those some people would also miss more shots using slower MF.

4 months agopermalink

But may win others with zone focusing and better light gathering.

It’s a different tool. Nothing bad in having more tools at your disposal- but not all might be the right for you.

4 months agopermalink

I found zone focusing ok in the film days. With digital image resolution I find it annoying if the focus is a bit off perfect

4 months agopermalink

Hey, it’s art. :)

4 months agopermalink

@Tom A I think the success of zone focusing success depends a lot on what type of images you're shooting. I use AF for social photography, people and wildlife but for me the absence of accurate DOF scales on AF lenses is a real downer for landscape. It's pretty evident from DPR forums that a lot of people don't worry about being precise, but that's not really good enough for serious landscape work, especially if you've only got one chance at a shot on a tough hike.

4 months agopermalink

Rod, that is a good point. For those picture ideally you bring a sheet from a DOF calculator. You have time enough for focusing a landscape anyway.
In general I still do use some manual lenses, it’s ok when the subject is fairly static.

Setup: xt2 with Mamiya 80mm f2.8 645 lens -> 645 to Nikon adapter -> Nikon to Fuji X lens turbo II
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190630/88a591ba9708870f7d5e8dd2632ea986.jpg

4 months agopermalink

Sylverphoto

@Digitalharry
Viltrox is cheaper because it is Chinese and they need to enter the market by brute force and this only works when being cheap. Huawei, TTartisan, 7artisan do or did the very same. To offer a product on the lower end, those companies took industrial design elements of other companies, such as Apple or Leica, and jumped on their marketing train. Viltrox is a bit different but I still would not a buy a Chinese lens.

The Voigtländer lenses have a huge heritage since Cosina used to be an OEM manufacturer for many others, such as Nikon and Canon. They are around for more than 50 years and have a lot of experience. Built and image quality is much superior compared to many of their Chinese competitors.

4 months agopermalink

calte

@Tom_A. And the AF people who's camera didn't miss the shot can be so satisfied about their shot which vanish in the nowhereness in the most cases anyway.

4 months agopermalink

@calte Well with MF for moving subjects you will have even more shots vanishing into nowhereness due to missing so what is your point?

4 months ago*permalink

@Sylverphoto I love my fuji lenses and tried a Viltrox 85mm in promotion. I must say it is really good. It is well possible that the fuji is even better when compared side by side but really on its own that viltrox is perfectly ok for many.

4 months agopermalink

Sylverphoto

@Tom-A
I only bought once a Chinese lens. It broke the shutter of a camera because the lens was not assembled correctly. Since then I have never bought a Chinese lens again and I would still say 'no thank you'. The company did not want to compensate for the occured damage. That was in 2018.

4 months agopermalink

Becasue some people don't like modern AF lens' Focus by wire design, myself included, therefore I mainly shoot with Voigtlander and Zeiss Loxia . people don't spend more money so they get more OOF picture, people buy those lens because they work great for them, not everyone, every application require super fast AF, I am a landscape and astro guy, so 99% of the time I don't need it, and actually don't want AF.

4 months ago*permalink

ms18

Japanese video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrYbENQ3ymE

4 months agopermalink

calte

Interesting to see the size differences

4 months agopermalink

raizans

So, it'll be six months until the Voigtländer 18mm f/1.2 is announced? =)

The X-Pro4 better have 28mm equiv. framelines in the OVF!

4 months agopermalink

Mateus1

This would be my first choice if I was using Fuji and 23mm for landscapes.

4 months ago*permalink

Paul JM

Thats odd
I usually close the aperture down for landscapes
Not sure what advantage this offers over the cheaper lenses for landscape

4 months agopermalink

MacM545

Irix might also make a lens of the same focal length someday. If so, it might make for quite an interesting comparison!

4 months agopermalink

Phil Flash

The minimum focusing distance of 7" is impressive.

4 months agopermalink

pictureAngst

“…the lens features electrical contacts for transmitting … focus confirmation…”

This sounds odd - surely it’s the camera alone that determines when something is in focus?

4 months agopermalink

Adam007

Sadly, no. While it has never been satisfactorily explained to me (like you, I think: doesn't the camera know that the image is in focus?), it doesn't work that way. I have manual lenses that give focus confirmation only in the center, and others that indicate focus anywhere in the image there is a focus point.

4 months agopermalink

DrewRick

The lens tells the camera how far away the focus is mostly for the benefit of the X-Pro series, so that the hybrid viewfinder can display parallax correctly for composing in OVF mode.

4 months agopermalink

pictureAngst

Ah that makes sense - thanks!

Also, for the camera to display the focus distance on the manual mode focal scale, I guess it needs to be told this by the lens.

4 months agopermalink

Paolo Pizzin

The lens transfers data to the camera’s processor …

4 months agopermalink

DrewRick

Using focus, focal length, and aperture information transmitted by the lens, the camera can display focus distance along with estimated DOF to assist with fun things like hyperfocal distance to get everything (reasonably) in focus from 2m to infinity for street photography. Fuji cameras have two settings for that, one to display pixel-accurate DOF, one for "close enough" film era sharpness. I find the latter more useful especially for street.

4 months agopermalink

Photoman

Samples could have been...better.

4 months agopermalink

Trolly

I think they are good, with many taken at f.1.2.

4 months agopermalink

ms18

I'd love to see a closeup shot!

4 months agopermalink

Phil Flash

Good looking lens. Wish this version were available for Nikon Z instead of the retro designed one.

4 months agopermalink

mcantsin

I wonder how this performs against the (equally new) Fujinon 23mm/1.4 and would love to see a real-world comparative test.

The Fujinon has a more complex optical construction with 11 elements in 8 groups (vs. 10 elements in 6 groups in the Voigtlander), got stellar reviews, but also is considerably longer (63mm vs. 44mm) and heavier (300g vs. 214g), has less aperture blades (7 vs. 12) and a longer minimum focus distance (28 vs. 18cm), and is $120 more expensive.

I'd expect the Fujinon to be optically better, but the Voigtlander to have more character...

4 months agopermalink

Not to mention that importantly, the fuji has autofocus.

4 months agopermalink

blessingx

Tom_A, along with that AF it has MF focus-by-wire. Advantage Voigtlander.

4 months agopermalink

@Tom_A
Manual Focus is exactly the main reason I keep on buying the Voigtlander even they sometimes cost more, I rather have a true mechanical MF lens rather than AF with Focus by Wire, I have 10 Zeiss Loxia and Voigtlanders and still keep on buying those.

4 months ago*permalink

True, for those handful cases you want to focus by hand the voigtlander has an advantage. But if you deal with moving, live subjects you will miss far fewer good shots with the AF fuji.
I have some manual lenses myself btw. Ok when I can take the time. A nightmare for photographing my kids.

4 months ago*permalink

gavinlg

It seems Cosina set a size parameter that governs the design of this lens, and I think that's pretty amazing. It and the 35/1.2 are ergonomically 'correct' on the x-pro/x-t bodies, unlike many of the modern lenses which are laughably huge on small mirrorless bodies.

Cosina has to be one of the most interesting camera companies at the moment.

4 months agopermalink

Sebastien Guyader

It's not because the removal of the reflex mirror system CAN result in smaller cameras, that all mirrorless systems HAVE TO be small. Mirrorless systems have other qualities, the smaller size is just one among others, and IMHO size was not the single most important driver to develop mirrorless systems.

4 months agopermalink

gavinlg

That much is obvious when most mirrorless systems have giant unbalanced lenses.

Leica M is the only system that has a good size correlation between all the system lenses and camera body size .Mr K from Cosina is a huge Leica M fan, and voigtlander's main product line going back decades has been their M mount lenses. So I'm deducing that these Fuji X noktons have a design parameter that centres around being the right size for the camera body by Leica M standards at the expense of outright performance.

4 months ago*permalink

Cerridwen

Nice looking lens, appears of good character.

4 months agopermalink

voyeurb

Kinda looks like a Pentax Limited

4 months agopermalink

WOW, more and more Voigtlanders coming...... where is the 23 F1.2 E mount? I will order that right away and use my D6000 more often if they bring that out. I am currently most using the Voigtlander 21 F1.4 on that camera so I can wait.

4 months ago*permalink

irax73

I never get why they cost so much. Are they really a world better than what fujifilm can offer in their 1:1.4 lenses lineup? Because some of those are quite sharp, fast autofocusing but also weather sealed.
But, maybe Voigtlander is a brand that has same reputation as Leica or Zeiss that can make just superior optics. I do not have much information about that though.

4 months agopermalink

skmendiratta

i was thinking the same fuji 23 1.4 is a great lens with autofocus. I see Voigtlander size and weight advantage. but interested to see optical differences.

4 months agopermalink

Archlich

Higher price to make up for fewer sales and cost of smaller scale production. It's a niche product.

4 months ago*permalink

Little John of GC

Some of the reasons for the high cost:

1. f1.2
2. good optics
3. excellent built
4. economics of scale (production in small numbers)
5. dedicated manual focus users

Voigtlander is a brand owned by Cosina, who also makes great lenses for Zeiss and others.

4 months agopermalink

gavinlg

If you ever get a chance, try one, or at least pick one up. Modern AF lenses will forever feel like plastic garbage from that point out. They are in a different league for build and feel.

4 months agopermalink

Foskito

Voigtlander produces many superb lenses, on pair (both optically and in build quality) to many Leica ones and they cost many times less. I wouldn't be surprised if this one outperforms the new Fuji f1.4. And on top of that it looks amazing.

4 months agopermalink

DrewRick

I feel like these are really for X-Pro users who love manual focusing but don't want to miss correct DOF and parallax preview. For that specific niche, these lenses are unrivaled, which you can see in the price. We might see other manufacturers jump on this bandwagon and then there will be price competition for the first time.

4 months agopermalink

Foskito

Drew, yes. Pair these with an XP3 and it is a pretty nice alternative (sort of) to a Leica M kit.

4 months agopermalink

irax73

I guess it should be much better than stock f1.4. It should really be a lens designed for X-Pro3. I'm really into that aesthetics of the X-Pro3.

4 months agopermalink

yayatosorus

Seems like a lovely lens. FYI a Nikon Z mount version is also coming.

4 months agopermalink

Yeah, I almost wanted to buy a Zfc just for that lens, absolutely love those Voigtlander primes. have 5 of them on my Sony system and will definitely buy more.

4 months agopermalink

marc petzold

How you guys come to 34.5mm focal length, @DPR? It's 23mm x 1.52 (the usual APS-C Cropfactor, let Canon aside, subtle smaller Sensor - x1.62-1.63) which correlates to 34.96mm, which is -very- close to 35mm focal length, in Small Picture Format terms. ;)

Good Light.

4 months agopermalink

Gannon Burgett

@Marc: Cosina itself listed 34.5mm as the equivalent, so that's what I used in the article. There's a possibility this is technically a little less than exactly 23mm, which could account for the discrepancy. Alternatively, Cosina went with a straight 1.5x crop factor, which would leave you with 34.5mm exactly. Such a difference is negligible anyways.

4 months agopermalink

Nokiron

It's actually a hair above 35mm (35.19mm).

X-Trans 4 (and other APS-C sensors) is 23.5mm x 15.6mm, which is a crop-factor of x1.53. If we are speaking exact numbers.

4 months ago*permalink

marc petzold

@Gannon
Thanks for the heads up here. Well, it's "n e g l i g i b l e" as Zack Arias used to say - but the x1.5 cropfactor in reality is always x1.52 or x1.53, the same with Canon APS-C, which is x1.62, or x1.63 usually.

A fine belated evening, good Light.

4 months agopermalink

Little John of GC

it's actually 34.999999999mm ... LOL

4 months agopermalink

$780 too much for this. There are cheaper options.

4 months agopermalink

D_Gunman

There is no MF 23mm f1.2 X-mount lens with electrical contact. This is the only one.

4 months agopermalink

Are there cheaper but better 23 mm F1.2 alternative? i actually found the price pretty attractive and will order one right away if they bring out the E-mount as well.

4 months agopermalink

Nielk Mike

So will I. In fact, I just placed a pre-order with my local store.

4 months agopermalink

Mr Bolton

Sony users talking about ordering a Fuji lens when it comes out in FE mount.. how the tables have turned :-D

4 months agopermalink

Isn't there a Fuji lens that is AF and WR and also cheaper?

4 months agopermalink

theBitterFig

I don't mean this to be a knock on this lens (it has advantages and might be better!), but I've loved the TTArtisans 23/1.4. Really compact, zebra if you want it, clicky aperture ring. Optics on it are great for the price (that is to say, you can get better). It's a fun little lens to use, possibly my favorite of the TTAs.

All positivity. More lens options are great, since what's too this or that for one person might be great for someone else.

4 months ago*permalink

My understanding is that the Fuji 23/1.4 is outstanding.

4 months agopermalink

wolfloid

Just the same as with cheap toilet paper - it’s available - but putting your fingers through isn’t pleasant.

4 months agopermalink

wolfloid

Actually, there are no cheaper options. The Fujifilm is f1.4, which is not f1.2. It is also larger, heavier, more expensive, and won’t manual focus as well. So what, exactly, are you comparing it to?

4 months agopermalink