Panasonic updates its L-mount lens roadmap with two new primes, drops the 100mm F2.8 Macro

Of course, it means a lower price, but nothing is free in this world, even the lower price. I have 1.4/50 S-Pro, and optically it rivals Leica Summilux-SL 1.4/50. Expecting the same performance and build quality from non-S-Pro lenses is not something that I would suggest doing :)

"Even leaving out phase detect was a choice, to prevent the banding it produces."
Good insights. I see a lot of pretty good (i.e. more sophisticated production quality) YouTubers using the GH cameras.

Eh I don't buy that as the reasoning for no PDAF. Banding is a total nonissue in any real-world type situation.

Banding is an issue in every camera I have used which uses phase pixels. As soon as you lift shadows by more then one stop you are screwed, the higher the ISO is worse. The S1 is all about image quality. It’s also the only 24mp mirrorless, apart from Leica, which doesn’t have an AA filter to soap up the picture

fujilover - It must be a Fuji issue as lifting shadows on Sonys works just fine. Also Sony high ISO performance is competitive with the best on the market.

I love how people play a serious problem down. just pathetic. sure 98% of us will survive it, but the 2% are ALOT of people. it already spread in warm climates, so no, its NOT just like the flue

"Just standard flu", rubbish.
Check the mortality rate of common flu among the elder people. it's something like 0,5-1,5%. It is said to be around 15% for elder folks with the Covid.
That's quite a staggering difference, double so if you happen to be in the demographic.

It came from labs and have been patented by US government in 2003. Paid vaccinations already on the way. Business us usual. Nothing to see here. Move along.

The UK consists of over 66million souls. If this virus infects everyone, which is quite possible, with a 4% mortality rate, then over 2.5million people will die. If the mortality rate is up to 8%, as some are reporting, then over 5 million people will die in the UK alone. This will have profound consequences for the people left, the country and its economy for decades to come.
It does seem very highly infectious and it is spreading in warmer climates. The 8000 or so killed by annual flu in the UK could seem like a tiny inconsequential drop in the ocean compared to this thing.

Will the virus only affect the UK, is this our punishment for Brexit? I knew it.

@milkod2001: Stop with the rubbish tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense. It was not patented by US government in 2003, please keep your silly lies quarantined in the forums you originally got the from.

@milkod2001: My personal beliefs are not the topic here, you posting false conspiracy BS is.

I google'd "Covid-19 patents", and to no surprise to anyone, this was the first search result: https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/26/the-wild-covid-19-coronavirus-conspiracies-and-why-you-should-ignore-them

Be a little bit more sceptic of what you read online, and at very least stop spreading the tin foil hat nonsense, it is not helping anyone in any possible way.

I'm not so sure about this comment and it depends on what you consider to be "best". i switched from Canon this year. talking about a lens lineup. and while i love the native panny lenses available, there's little actually available from Panny. Native lenses work best with this system in terms of AF accuracy and speed. Those sigma L lenses may be sharp but to get them in focus is a challenge. I do better with my old Zeiss ZEs and MF than the sigmas i tried. And the leica's are too spendy. I love the idea of the L mount ,but it's too early to say if it's the "best" lens lineup. Even if cost is no issue, i'd argue a Nikon/Canon lineup is far greater in range with the ability to add OTUS lenses in the mix. I'm excited to see the new primes from Panny and that long-ranze zoom. Going to 400mm with an extender is very different than a native long lens.

Look I think this is a pretty cool system and I hope it sticks around but I don't see how you can say it has "the best lens line up, apart from Sony" with a straight face. It's just not true. Canon and Nikon both have it beat just with native glass alone (since as stated those Sigma lenses aren't all that useable) and they can both adapt DSLR glass with excellent results.

what a dumb comment, just because you are invested in another system

Yeah, but when your f1.4 primes are as big, heavy and expensive as f1.2 lenses then they might as well be f1.2.

maybe you can explain your genius conclusion to Zeiss, or the many cinema lens companies.

I doubt the lumix lenses are optically better than the RF lenses. ;)

And there's a saying "any idiot can design something overly complicated, but it takes a genius to design something simple yet effective " ;)

As I said above, there is no practical difference between 1.2 and 1.4. The Canon 50mm f1.2 RF is 950g, the Panasonic 50mm f1.4 is 955g, the Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 (which is MF) is 970g, so the weight is an irrelevance anyway. The Canon is a large lens, and like Zeiss, Sigma or Panasonic, it has a design element that they feel gives them an edge for their target market, weight and size with the boundaries of what they are developing. If you want a feather, don't buy a Panasonic, even better don't buy any of the FF systems with 1.4 lenses, they are all heavy.

Right, like I've said, the problem is Panasonic f1 4 lenses are as big and heavy and expensive as f1.2 lenses, for no good reason, and when the lenses are as big, heavy and expensive as f1.2 lenses then they might as well be f1.2

Seems to me Panasonic lenses designers don't understand the concept of "efficiency".

Yeah and its no practice difference btw 1.4 and 1.8 so its stupid to make 1.4 lenses. And why even buy a 1.8 when its no prscticsl difference to a f2 lens etc etc

Just a little education. 1 to 1.4 is a stop, 1.4 to 2 is a stop, 2 to 2.8 is a stop …. its non-linear. 1.2 to 1.4 is half a stop, and at this thin DOF makes a small difference. 1.4 to 2 is a full stop, and with much more DOF window relative movement
So, as I said before, 1.2 to 1.4 is almost irrelevant. 1.4 to 2 is certainly not.
Some great tutorials on photographic basics:
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm
I think there should be an exam before allowing posting on dpreview

The panasonic 1.4 has a number of significant advantages over the RF 1.2. Such as a much less annoying AF drive system, lower CA, or low focus breathing. The RF 1.2, just like its predecessor or the Sigma 35 1.2, has so much vignetting past a focusing distance of 1-1.5m that DOF isn't much thinner than a 50 1.4 with reasonably low vignetting for most of the frame anyway (its small size isn't coming for free). Conversely the Panasonic has a truckload of distortion that's corrected in software. They're very different lenses designed with very different performance targets anyway (video being a primary concern for the Panasonic, and not at all for the Canon, for example).
It's likely that neither you nor I have any qualification to determine whether a lens is well engineered or not.

Lmao the 1.2 RF is way inferior in optical quality. Only amateurs obsess over wide apertures. The RF has heavy vignette at 1.2, has significant CA, softer, and breathes like a dragon. Theres a reason why the S Pro 50 1.4 is priced at that. It had linear MF, no CA wide open, and no focus breathing so pulling focus is like using an expensive cine lens.

And Fujiliver Missed the point . Ps fast lenses is not just About Thim dof

Oh my. I feel sorry for people who are confident and opinionated but don’t know what they are talking about.

For clarity - I have Panasonic 50mm 1.4 and until a week ago I had an EOS R and rented the RF50.

Both are amazing lenses. Truly brilliant. Particularly great is the EOS R AF even at 1.2.

But I sold the EOS R and I’m keeping my S1R and 50mm. I think it is very close but on balance I prefer the Lumix 50mm. IQ is amazing. I would not blame anyone for choosing either but I prefer the S1R camera so I’ve no regrets.

Only Olympus is not in any big sensor club, rip.

Um Onlyfreeman,
It was recently announced micro four thirds is the most popular mount again in Japan (all of 2019). And 3 of the top 10 selling cameras there the past few months have been Olympus.
With such great popularity in their home country and medical imaging to prop them up, I doubt they are going anywhere.

I'd love a 35-150 f/2.8, that would be a perfect portrait lens for me. Good for small groups as well as full body up to tight headshots of individuals both in studio or outdoors. I've always found the go to portrait zoom of a 70-200 the awkward and impractical lens. it's too long for much indoor work unless you have a huge studio so you have to switch to a 24-70, and then you end up too short for tighter shots and are hovering at 70mm. Outdoors the 70-200 is fine unless you need a full body shot and then you're to tight unless you have quite a bit of space. Changing lenses in the desert or beach is not a great idea so I'll often shoot with the 24-105 f4 but then I keep wanting a bit more reach and occasionally a wider aperture. So, for me a 35-150 f2.8 would be perfect.

Who on earth thinks a 20-50/f3.5 is a weird, useless, or impractical lens?

Ultrawide-to-normal in a single lens, with sufficiently large aperture for most lighting conditions, and the ability to produce nice, natural defocus blur at longer focal lengths.

It's a no-brainer, incredibly versatile lens. It's only "weird" because no one else seems to have been able to make one (and certainly not a consistently sharp, optically great one), except Panasonic on M4/3.

There is already a Sigma 35mm f/1.2 lens for L mount...

@idm yes the 1.2, which is huge and focuses slow. Perhaps some want a lens that's not so big and with a faster focusing speed? I rather have a 1.8 35mm that focuses fast and it's not huge than that 1.2.

True... but the Lumix S Pro 50mm weights 1 Kg... not so light either... Slow AF speed is often the consequence of giving more priority to image quality, having to move heavier elements...

adapted ef-mount lenses on l-mount are cdaf-only, and they were designed for pdaf, so the af is not good at all.

l-mount is the worst platform for adapting dslr glass.

From Panasonic's perspective, though, I suppose they'd rather be the ones selling you the lens.

MILC man, maybe you do not understand how DFD operates. And since almost all OSPDAF cameras need CDAF to focus, what you said is nonsense.
More importantly for reliable macro work, manual focus is the way to go.
The S1R is the highest rated FF camera on DxO due to is greater color depth, color sensitivity and tonal range, ahead of the lower rated A7R4 and would be a top macro camera with the superb Canon lens.

Since this mount is currently the best for video with M43, followed by Fujifilm and Nikon close behind, those other lenses make more sense.

@Eterna T - "almost all OSPDAF cameras need CDAF to focus"

no, that is wrong, ospdaf cameras do not "need" cdaf at all, and of course you don't have any link to back up that claim.

dslrs do not need cdaf to focus, either.

here is an example of ospdaf not needing cdaf, you can't run both at the same time: "A-mount lenses with SSM or SAM only. Choose phase-detection AF or contrast-detection AF in AF System menu." https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7m2-body-kit/specifications#features

since l-mount doesn't have ospdaf capability, it is a fail for adapting dslr lenses.

@MILC man almost all PDAF systems use PD and CD in hybrid. And when it become really dark they start to use only CDAF. So EVERY lens could be used with CDAF. Most probably it will take long time to focus and will have poor tracking. But no reason to be useless.

In a market that is shrinking rapidly it makes no sense at all to invest in a new system that does exactly the same as 4 mounts and 6 other company's are already doing. It makes sense to stay at your niche with something unique and caputilize on the strengths of it. And that's exactly what Olympus is doing. The next 5 years the focus of photography will be in AI, and that's a lot easier with a smaller sensor.

You are joking right? Or you don't know what professional means. Professional doesn't mean rich, and Nikon Z cameras and lenses are quite tough and ergonomic enough for most Pros.

Nikon and Canon need to sell squillions of their new FF ML camera bodies to keep their existing dslr business flowing as they transition their existing customers to evf from the mirror box. For them there is no gentle landing - they have to do it. They have chosen to start by selling more affordable camera bodies and arguably higher specification lenses. They hope to leverage a proportion of their clientele up gradually by offering sequential camera body upgrades.

Panasonic does not need “instant market share” but has chosen to enter this segment of the market with higher quality and higher prices. Some years down the track Canon and Nikon will catch up - but they will always market cheaper camera bodies.

Buying a great (better) camera body and keeping it longer will ultimately be cheaper in the long run.

It makes no sense for Panasonic to start a price war with cheap camera bodies to buy market share.

Tom, what makes you say that Panasonic cameras are better than Canikon cameras? Do you have any proof or are you just looking at size and weight?

Well, Panasonic entered the market with very well fleshed out cameras. They are more of a pro-grade class than enthusiast consumer type of deal that Nikon and Canon offers. Also, Panasonic did not have to cripple them in order to protect their other product lines.

And they apparently decided not to partake in the race to the bottom that Canon, Nikon and Sony have to engage in to fight for market share in what is already quite a small fraction of the market.

So yeah, you're price shopping? Panasonic is not for you.

Astroripper, I have used 5DIV, A7RIII, A9 etc... so I don't decide solely based on price. On the other hand Body + Lens < Body only cannot be explained by "ah but Panasonic makes great cameras".

Then tell me again what makes Panasonic cameras more "Pro" then Nikon Z cameras? Size and weight?

Flow Friday, you talk clueless or without any proof. Z6 or EOS R aren't small cars.
Show me how S1 is more rugged compared to EOS R and Z6. How Z6 falls behind in terms of function and ergonomics. Just explain please, without personal attacks. Talk based on facts if you can.
I asked under this comment several times but you guys talk about these "advantages and how S1 is more professional" continuously but none of you guys told what this professional means.
Tell me, how S1 is more rugged and more functional and more professional compared to Z6. Explain. Start from object tracking AF, for example.

Why would we "start from object tracking AF" when that is literally the only functional advantage, aside from size and weight, that the CaNikon variants have?

The Panasonics have better image quality than the EOS R, better IBIS than any of the other FF options, high-resolution shooting modes for landscape and studio shooters, better ergonomics and direct controls, better EVFs, more flexible LCD articulation than the Z6, better video quality and features (especially in-camera), better I/O options, multiple card slots, and longest shutter life. I'm probably forgetting some.

Oh, and a much wider variety of high-quality lens options, thanks to Sigma (and Leica, if you are made of money).

Unless you live and die by continuous AF tracking for every single shot you take, or are constrained by a certain size or weight, it's clear that Panasonic nailed most of what makes a great professional camera with the S-series on the first attempt.

And the S1H, of course, has no real competition yet.

The quality/price ratio may be good for you but not for me and many others. The 50% comment was sarcasm.

Pana Leica Nocticron 42.5 and Pana Leica 10-25 1.7 have a great quality but are very expensive.

yes, ‘discussing changes to the communication protocol' won't fix the inherent issues with Panasonic proprietary dfd.

Actually I don't mind a few milliseconds longer to focus when Panasonic has eliminated PDAF banding when lifting shadow areas. And yes, I own the S1R and the new Sigma 24-70mm DG DN, and focus speed / accuracy using DFD is perfectly fine in my opinion.

Yes it is the new L mount - I was fortunate to get one of the first shipments from B&H. Overall, very impressed with both image quality and focus performance. Just shot an event for my local library using this combination (with rapidly moving children) and the librarians were very pleased with the results. They posted sample images on flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/lanememlib/49566711392/in/photostream/

DBE - I looked at the gallery you linked to, thanks for letting us see this set. Your focus results look good despite being limited by DFD. The Panasonic skin tones under indoor lighting here, however, are not exactly something I'm too thrilled with personally. ;-)

I'd like to add 'unnecessarily large' as a drawback too. I like to travel with my cameras, not use them as ballast 😉

fPrime - thanks for checking out the gallery, but be aware that the images were developed under Lightroom from RAW, they are not 'Panasonic' colors. If the skin tones are 'off', I'm sure you could modify the images to suit. And I'm sorry Lan, but the camera is *exactly* the size I want - I found the ergonomics of the smaller Sony and Nikon cameras to be much less satisfying. The size and weight of the S1R with a lens is about the same as my D500, and I've traveled overseas with it for years. No problems.

It’s their poor marketing and lack of dealer support that holds them back. Focus is fine. Very good actually.

Agree 100% about buying LED's with high CRI values. When I replaced my incandescent indoor can lights with LED lights five years ago I put in CREE TW LED's which at the time had a CRI of 93. Best decision I made in lighting ever.
Here's the original review of those:
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/cree-13-5w-60w-tw-series-soft-white-led-bulb-preview/

Our mileage varies. I tested it against my DFA* 50mm, and if anything, the kit edged out this well-regarded lens. And Don K is not exactly forgiving of technical flaws in his work.

Oh hey, my ears were ringing!

Yes, the "Macro" focusing on the 24-105 F/4 kit lens isn't a true macro, but it gets close enough that coupled with any scenario where the high-resolution mode is compatible, it can even negate the need for focus stacking by being farther away from your subject and cropping in.

Beyond that, macro lenses generally do not benefit from the latest advancements in autofocus or image stabilization (I often use my lenses in manual focus with flash), and I have a huge collection of EF-mount glass that I adapt to the S1R. In fact, this is how I was shooting some documentary film work today.

Would I like a native Lumix L macro lens? Absolutely! Is it a critical lens to get people to adopt the platform? Not as much as others. I have no problem seeing the R&D energies focused elsewhere for other capable lenses for the L mount.

@HowaboutRAW: I'll contact Panasonic to clarify what lenses are indeed 'Leica Certified,' since there seems to be some discrepancy between the markings on the actual lenses and some of their promo material.

I'm looking at my 24-70 F2.8, and 70-200 F4, and both have "Certified by LEICA" stamped on them.

Well, check again. It's there.