Magic Lantern brings 4K recording to the Canon EOS 5D Mark III

well, that gives about 12 minutes of continuous recording (for an 128GB card). Considering that you rarely see a continuous sequence longer than that, i would say that is not a real problem.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

Boissez

The length of each recording is not the main issue here - it's the vast amount data generated. Just a single day of shooting and you may have several TB worth of clips.

Recording RAW in 4K is just overkill for 99,9% of users out there. And the remaining 0,1% aren't going to trust hacked firmwares anyway.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

RPJG

Right, because if you can't find a use for it, no-one can.

Sheesh this comments section gives me the irrates sometimes.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

You probably didn't use (or understand) what LM really is.

It is not a hacked firmware - it is a separate firmware, that you can run alongside the normal one. It is *not reliable* (and not even recommanded by LM team) to be used in production grade projects. I would say that it shouldn't even cross your mind to use it for something like an event or other critical work.

It's for making small personal projects, small clips (even if they end up as professional work) that can be shot again and again or you don't mind loosing "one go", etc. The quality of the end video might end up being the same as if you shoot with the top of line C camera, but it will not replace one for .... hmm... maybe 95.3% of the times :)

Apr 5, 2017*permalink

Boissez

OK - Please enlighten me then. Show me some 'personal projects' that require the hassle/investment that raw 4K workflow is.

Don't get me wrong, it's cool that you can do this - but besides playing around with ginormous files, the use cases are very limited.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

RPJG

...for *you*.

Apr 6, 2017permalink

Boissez, I didn't mean to offend you in any way, i did tried to explain what i meant.

For "personal projects" yes, you can play with. Or you can be a student in art/video-making and want a make a short 4K nice video for a project. Or an enthusiast hobbyist. Or a person interested in the matter, and you just want to test/compare if the benefits of RAW video worth further investing, and so on.
Also, most of today's computers can handle the work with such files, especially if you have the time to wait for encoding/rendering that could last for hours, so "immediate" investment is not necessarily an issue.

You may argue you could rent an equipment for a short while, but renting a C300II is some $700 a week. That is lot of money for someone really on a budget. You can get a used 5DIII for less than $1500 (or, most likely, you already have it or can borrow it from a friend).

Apr 6, 2017*permalink

Astro Landscapes

Why am I not surprised. Canon has been doing this since day one with their DSLRs.

The Canon 300D (the original rebel) was just a 10D with gimped firmware. They even left the firmware relatively unlocked, and you could turn your 300D into a 10D, at least inasmuch as the hardware would allow.

This just proves that Canon's corporate philosophy has been the same all along: strategically protect their flagship lines by using any means necessary to stagger each "inferior" cameras spec sheet, in order to entice gullible folks to waste money on an unnecessary upgrade.

Also, it's proof that Canon is still deeply entrenched in their elitist philosophy, thinking that their brand name and their flagship bodies and lenses are status symbols to be envied and coveted by "lesser" folks who cannot afford them.

Reason #2 why I always stuck with Nikon. (Reason #1 being, of course, actual superiority in various ways over the past 10-12 years.)

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Alastair Norcross

And yet, despite your contempt for Canon, bordering on irrational hatred, here you are commenting on a news story about a firmware hack for a 5 year old Canon camera, rather than shooting with your superior Nikon gear. I wonder why this reminds me of all those right-wing politicians, who denounce homosexuality and support draconian laws against it, and then, inevitably, turn out to be gay themselves? Hmm.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Astro Landscapes

Well, Alastair, you have me at a disadvantage because it's impossible for me to continue this conversation without sounding like a complete wiseass.

But, since you mentioned in-the-closet gay politicians, I think it's too late for decorum, so here goes:

I've shot with literally every single 1-digit and 2-digit Canon DSLR ever made, since the 300D and 10D, and I've post-produced well over 2M .CR2 files.

All of that experience has only reassured me that I'm VERY glad I own Nikon.

I'm happy to agree that that there are still quite a few things that can make Canon a better choice.

However, If you refuse to consider that Canon has even a slight habit of corporate decisions that "hold back" one line in order to make another look more impressive, ...then you're the one with your head in the sand. (And, your mindset of denial / fanboyism is precisely what enables Canon to continue getting away with "feature omission" crap like this.)

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

Hay....matt

At least Canon doesn't have to make crystal cameras for sale at Tiffanys...

And they're not consolidating their optical design groups...

But if this keeps up....

Nikon cameras will start to look like microscopes....

And Canon cameras will start to look like copiers....

:-)

Apr 5, 2017*permalink

Kona Mike

HA, I always thought of Nikon as the "elitist" brand and Canon as always trying to catch up. Perhaps it is just because I can remember before EOS film camera came out.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

davev8

Matthew.....yes conon do hold back or cripple the lower cameras to protect the top models.....so nikon dont do this then .....i will have to check nikon's spec sheet as it sounds like a D3300 may be the same as a D500

Apr 5, 2017*permalink

RPJG

Hey Matthew, look on the bright side. How about "Isn't it great that Canon (and other manufacturers in many fields) make available cheaper versions of their gear for those who can't afford and/or don't need the high-end stuff?"

Life's so much more pleasant when you just re-laaaaaaax :-)

More seriously: I get your point that some of these lower-priced items are gimped and could potentially offer more functionality for zero, or almost zero, money. But being a manufacturer isn't a roll in the hay, so let's just be thankful we have such a massive range of gear to choose from, and that we have people like Black Magic undoing *some* of the gimping that gets you so wound up.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

sh10453

Great job ML.
I have their "other" software installed on one of my Canon 5D's, and I'm happy with the added functionality.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

trungtran

So the hardware was capable, so all along it was about "protectionism" of their Cinema line.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

jnd

No treally capable: You can't write fast enough to card to make continuous recording. The sensor readout doesn't support regular 4K resolution at regular frame rates, You need to choose slower or wider crop. The processor can't compress anywhere near this amount of data to have manageable end product.

It's really hack, suitable for someone but not worth it for most.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

bluevaping

I like magic eBay better! In no time you camera turns into a useable 4k camera.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

thenothing

I wonder what they could do to the c100 line, that would be great to get 4k in camera on that thing. Its amazing and sad to see how these corporations take advantage of us, selling us the same sensors, perhaps the same camera internals, just a different body and most importantly, a different firmware that allows specific, more expensive features. Thank you magic lantern for opening our eyes and letting us peak behind the green curtain. makes me want to learn how to hack all of my cameras!!

Apr 4, 2017permalink

parakalien

The ML developers have officially said they will never port ML to any of the C line (c100, c300, c500) because they have been told Canon will shut them down with a lawsuit.
C100 is very capable of raw 4k video and compressed 4k video. But Canon wants to sell you a $12,000 c300 mkii instead.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

new boyz

Is that true? That Canon has threaten them? Because that implies they are cool with ML for DSLR.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Yes, they are cool with it. If they were not they would have shut it down long time ago. I guess they could find the legal means, or if they couldn't they would just buy ML. People on this forum just makes things look badly exaggerated in any direction.

But ML is (and probably will always remain) just a mean to have fun or do small and not critical projects. It enables you to do stuff you should normally do only with newer gear, but it's not reliable for production/professional use. I wouldn't be surprised if unofficially they get a bit of help from some canon engineers.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

MrBrightSide

Even though full 4K is only at 12.5 fps, I'm excited about the 3072 and the 3840—both those resolutions give lots of room for punch ins and subtle tracking shots, and of course, video stabilization. Way to go ML!

Apr 4, 2017permalink

DonSleza4e

Sooo... We don't need to pay horrible 3500$ for 5D Mark IV... Since old friend 5D Mark III for 2500$ (actually, 2000$ in my local shop) still in trend

Apr 4, 2017permalink

So when is magiclantern gonna hack a camera that already does 4k so it can do 8k?

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Moon0326

Your profile photo somehow makes your sarcastic comment serious. I almost thought someone approved your comment.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

LOL....

:-)

Apr 5, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

If the old-timer 5D can do this, what could a tech gadget like the Sony a7 do?

Apr 4, 2017permalink

PazinBoise

Overheat?

Apr 4, 2017permalink

beppe_it

melting down? :)

Apr 4, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

True enough. It would overheat, but not everybody needs to record internally for extended periods of time.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

justmeMN

If a camera isn't designed for 4K, won't adding it cause overheating?

Apr 4, 2017permalink

RayVagh

Alex, the developer said there's no over heating at all.

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

Enginel

They read at reduced fps or area so total number of pixels read stays the same.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

sh10453

Overheating is a trade mark owned by Sony :) j/k, hold your horses.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Just imagine what could have been achieved if Canon would have wanted to build a good video mode in the 5d iv.... imagine a 5d iv with 4k, full sensor readout RAW video... Combined with the already impressive video-autofocus and the overall great photo-features, the great build quality and the good color reproduction... it would have been the most epic camera on the market for under 4000$.

And the Magic lantern Team made it once again obvious that it COULD be done, if Canon realy wanted to. They managed to do this with a very limited access to the software and a bottlenecked, outdated hardware... Imagine what these guys could do if they had full access and the possibility to change the hardware...

For a professional workflow the Magic Lantern Hack and the RAW Workflow is just to unreliable and to cumbersome. But still great work.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

As company, Canon want to protect his sale. And it works so far!

Apr 4, 2017permalink

citrate

I don't think the card writing speed will support full sensor 4K raw in 5D4.
And the processing will also cause too much heat.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Yeah well, I totaly understand that and I can't realy criticise their evolutionary approach. But especialy in the 4k DSLR segment I realy miss some milestones... The 5d ii was quite some revolution, first Full-Frame DSLR with full-hd video mode... They could have win some more ground if they would have included an useable 4k-video mode in the 5d iv. RAW video would have been the killer.
In my opinion the options for grading and corection in RAW files are so much better even than the the options even with quite good encoded Files of a GH4... It would have probably broken the neck of current Sony Alphas or the Panasonic GH5s...

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

@citrate maybe, but sony managed to do at least 4k (no raw though) with full sensor readout.

Its hard to accept that Magic Lantern can get close (its not full 4k, but still) to 4k raw in a hacked 4 year old 5d iii but canon cant manage anything remotely close with a 5d iv they build themself.
Even if heat would be the problem,... even a full-hd croped RAW video would have been totaly awesome... something Magic Lantern managed to do quite stable.

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

phan....
It would have killed their C300 sales...
But I would have bought one!!!
I'd skip my Blackmagic gear if Canon made an affordable 4k RAW video camera.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

blue27

min. 500-700 MP on FF senzor today

Apr 4, 2017permalink

@FLruckas jeah, RAW Video would even be more important for me than 4k. 2,7k would be fine for me... enough to reframe the shot a little bit...

Apr 5, 2017permalink

Georgescanvas

I really think DP review is leading it's audience up the garden path with some of these headlines. After all, It's readership is mostly comprised of well to do upper middle class snobs with high disposable incomes and a penchant for canon critique.
In the last few months readers gave also been launching into Nikon though.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Paul Amyes

I think Canon should employ the guys at ML because they are wasting their money on the numpties they've currently got.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

malcolml1

Anyone want to mention the F work here? As in Fuji? Perhaps Canon should stop selling beta products....

Apr 4, 2017permalink

panther fan

So you can hack a 5D Mark III to do something the 5D IV can't?
Canon just bottlenecked the heck out of the 5D IV

Apr 4, 2017permalink

well... ML enabled video recording in canon 50D, which didn't have video recording at all. And it worked amazingly well, using lens IS. You don't have audio, as the camera didn't have a microphone though :)

Apr 4, 2017permalink

King Penguin

Dear me all theses negative Canon comments.......what about the car performance tune up market, do you criticise Ford, VW and BMW for short changing you 'cos some after-market specialist company can squeeze more horse power out of them.....I think not!

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Zoom Zoom Zoom

It's so funny that everyone is so blindly hyped about this that they don't even stop for a second to think that ultimately this is (and will always be) unusable in practical terms because the camera doesn't support writing to the memory card fast enough for 4K RAW recording. And no firmware or "magic" can ever fix that. Done. The end.

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

Digimat

the camera is perfectly able to write fast enough, as long as you dont use the 500mbps datarate the 5d IV does. the more common 100-200mbps would be no problem on a cf card. it actually writes close to 100mbps in h264 with intra-frames either way quite hapilly since over 4 years ;)

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

Arneb

@Zoom Zoom Zoom: What you're saying is just nonsense. A fast CF card in the 5DIII can be written with at a speed of around 80 to 95 megabyte/second.

While this indeed far higher than h.264 codecs do (which typically write at speeds of 50 to 500 mbps or 6 to 60 megabyte/second), this particular camera DOES support the write speeds necessary for 4K.

Also note that the 4K RAW video is slightly compressed (see ML website), otherwise 4K RAW would not have possible.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Zoom Zoom Zoom

Arneb, sorry to waste your time with my "nonsense". And I'm even more sorry to disappoint you that the information and disclaimer comes directly from the Magic Lantern's official blog. Take the time to check it yourself if you want, thanks!

"..Write speeds are high with write to card limitations: For example, at just 15fps 10-bit 4096x2500 requires 180 MB/s. 1080p45 should be a little more manageable at 111 MB/s."

Apr 5, 2017*permalink

Arneb

@Zoom Zoom Zoom: I'm sorry, I should have read better (I'm also really sorry about my 'nonsense', you DO have a serious point). Indeed continuous 4K isn't possible. I should have written: "Does support the write speeds necessary for 1080p24".

That said, 4K seems to work for about 15-30s, which is (just) enough for landscape videos (which probably benefit the most from 4K?). Also, they might be able to use MJPG compression like the new 5DIV does to compress the 4K of the 5DIII.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

CameraLabTester

This brand truly earns the word "magic" on their name.

Just goes to show how major camera manufacturers are the experts in gelding and full bore throttled down features.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

CallumG

We should stop buying camera body's and just funding these guys. Clearly upgrading makes no difference.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

zzzxtreme

We need magic lantern for nikon

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Nindy

What about 8k motion joeg

Apr 4, 2017permalink

GregAllen

Title should read EOS *5D* Mark III

Apr 4, 2017permalink

pannumon

Also the title should not read "4k" (12.5fps does not count).

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Kharan

Really? Then all of those cameras citing 4K output, that only do so for time lapse... where do they fall?

Apr 6, 2017permalink

pannumon

@Kharan, 50 x digital is not the same as 50 x optical zoom. Digital in-body-image-stabilization is not the same thing as real ("optical") in-body-image-stabilization. A panorama mode that stitches 10 images into one 50Mp image is not the same as 50Mp sensor. 4k time-lapse video is not the same as "real-time" 4k video. These are all in-camera post-processing features. It's nice to have these options in-camera, but everything can be done on computer as well.

Marketing departments do their jobs and try to trick customers. I see no reason for DPreview.com and/or Magic Lantern community doing so. OTOH, actually that 3840x1600 @ 24p may be qualified as 4k (but only barely).

By the way, which cameras are advertised as 4k based on 4k time-lapse?

Apr 8, 2017permalink

Kharan

Pentax, for starters, has promoted their "4K mode" quite a bit, and it's very misleading.
I know the hack doesn't really allow for basic 4K shooting, but it comes close, with a sensor that's really inadequate for it. That's commendable, and less of a stretch than some of the marketing copy that we deal with regularly.

Apr 10, 2017*permalink

shigzeo

Dafuq, Canon, your complacency will be your undoing.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

fotoMarian

I can not wait ML will bring new video recording features to 5D mark IV.
- 4K / 30 and 60 fps with a normal codec !!! (hopefully full sensor read out).
- 1080p / 120 fps
+ some more :-)

I have great respect for all these people and their work bringing features that Canon did not put in the camera just because of their very controversy decision protecting their video busyness.

Thank you, Magic Lantern, and please carry on with your great job!!! So many Canon shooters rely on you!!!

Apr 4, 2017permalink

imsabbel

Its really a shame, because it shows how much Canon is dragging their feed.

Most of the stuff those guys spend ages trying to reverse engineer Canon could just activate/add with a few lines of code.

They just don't want to.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Shlomo Goldwasser

This is so there will be incentive for you to buy their next camera.

It is lame from a consumer point of view. But from a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Zoom Zoom Zoom

Revolutions are enemies of profits.

Canon and everyone else is in business to sell product and make as much money as possible. They are not in business to give anyone else anything more than the bare minimum they carefully market searched to be enough for people feel acceptable and justifiable to go buy as "new". And the more you delay in between new product releases, automatically more "justifiable" that purchase decision becomes. Dragging advancements as slow as possible is part of all successful enterprises that are managed exclusively with profits in mind.

And for example, compared to other guys like Apple since Steve Jobs died, Canon advances at the speed of light actually! Apple can change the color of an iPhone or recycle 3 year old iPads, slower, thicker & heavier than current models in exchange for a couple bucks discount, and call it progress!!! .. and everyone goes to buy the "new" stuff, frenzied.

Apr 4, 2017*permalink

ozturert

It isn't that easy. Canon's first priority is stability and reliability. I think enabling 4K video in 5DMarkIII will increase heat and decrease reliability of the camera in the long run.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

deluk

I'm quite sure that Canon and all of the other manufacturers have a small team that force all of their designs and specs to the limit, just to see what they've got. As Oz says they then have to throttle everything back to a point where everything is stable, reliable and therefore usable. As ML say, this download is full of bugs, so can't even be called a Beta version. If they've managed to improve on anything that Canon have already done I'm sure they will find out when they download a copy . Canon won't admit anything but if it helps their own developments I'm sure they won't mind.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

Correct about the stability and reliability of a feature. IF canon puts a feature in a model (especially a professional one) - you need it to deliver. If they don't make it record 4K video, you don't use it for 4k video professionally. If you do, it's your own responsibility, not theirs.
However using it has no effect on camera on the "long run". You can uninstall your ML easily.

I had a older verion of ML installed on my old 50D. It enabled that camera to record 1080/30fps video (the camera did not have video support at all). And it was fun, great results and that... just an occasional crash or freeze... but if you didn't mind reseting the camera and starting over, the results were exceptional. A great feature to have, but probably not even canon could have made it "production ready" on that camera.

Apr 4, 2017permalink