Sony quietly updates the a7R III, a7R IV with improved LCD panels

Read the entire post...I'm just citing what someone noted on SAR. Someone noticed the wifi registrations for new Sony cameras. There were five. It was highly reported by rumors sites like SAR. They then matched up the camera code with the online manual. That is what they found.

For instance, that camera code WW447485 corresponds to the a7RIV A model:
https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2060/v1/en/contents/TP0002728094.html?search=WW447485

So clearly the A7RIV was registered last year on11/27/20. It's just some good sleuthing!

BTW, it makes sense that this was planned somewhat in advance...it has to be for the engineering to be done. Modern electronics are so interdependent that a change of one part can have all sorts of impact on other components and functioning.

So if you change out the LCD, you have to test things like the impact on battery life, processor load, how the software handles the higher resolution, etc. It's not a trivial change and modern cameras are not Lego's!

Then there's the manufacturing logistics. You have to source the part and test the QA off of the assembly line. You have to incorporate the new part into the current final assembly manufacturing line, which includes even arranging for proper shipping and delivery in time. None of which is trivial.

There's product registration, new manuals, billing, contracts with supplier, etc.

There are a lot of details that go into making this change and regardless of what prompted it, it would require some lead time to accomplish.

"Read the entire post..."

Could you separate out the part of the post that proves that it was a plan.

I can not find anything in your post that proves to me that it was planned. At least there is no statement from the sony.

Note: Your speculation or someone's speculation on SAR is not a proof of anything. SAR anyway has bad reputation.

@zxaar: I would say registering the new a7RIV A model in November of 2020 and then releasing it now, or at least making it public now, is a pretty good indicator of a plan.

This is modern engineering and manufacturing. Everything has to be planned in advance. This doesn't happen by accident. If not a planned change, then what is it? Did all of a sudden these new panels appear by magic in the Sony assembly line, and Sony says "OK, let's roll with it?" :)

And every new model has to be registered and approved due to the wifi radio.

Do you really think this happened on the fly? That Sony just made it up as they went along? Geesh...

No matter what the reasons for the change, there has to be significant lead time for this to occur.

So basically you are speculating.

It is pointless.

"Do you really think this happened on the fly? That Sony just made it up as they went along? Geesh..."

If I understand you correctly then what you are suggesting is absurd.

You are suggesting that a company all along had a plan to update a component by a better one for a model after say months or years while on the same time also spending time and energy on all the newest of the products.

You are suggesting they sat down and decided doing so.

If people working at sony were this stupid their company would have shut down decades ago.

" your own willful ignorance is exactly why you are NOT able to"

You have a proof? I wait.

@zxaar: This is not speculating. The product registrations are real. The camera codes are real. The Sony documentation is real. This is definitive proof.

If you do not like it that doesn't change the facts.

You write "you are suggesting that a company all along had a plan to update a component by a better one for a model after say months or years while on the same time also spending time and energy on all the newest of the products."

I am not suggesting. I am proving. And yes, this raises some interesting questions as to why they did this. But Sony did do this. Sorry if it offends you.

"Proof of your “wilful ignorance”? :P"

So you have no proof about the topic being discussed. You have no idea what is discussed. You just have to show everyone that you are an smart alec.

PS: I have not logged into 1x for ages so do not know what is happening there. Today after you mentioned i logged in and the account is active. You can do the stalking there too if you want.

"This is not speculating. The product registrations are real. The camera codes are real. The Sony documentation is real. This is definitive proof.

If you do not like it that doesn't change the facts."

The fact is that you have provided no proof that it was planned. You can say 500 times but without any proof that sony planned it you got nothing.

" But Sony did do this. Sorry if it offends you."

No proof -> did not happen then.

So on to the questions and that this raises.

1) Why did Sony decide to update these two older models with the better LCD screens and not the flagship a1 instead? Or even the FX3 for that matter?

2) Do these updates mean that the a7R III and a7R IV will be around longer in the Sony lineup than otherwise one might expect?

3) Will the rumored a7 IV have these better LCD panels? Or will these be reserved for now for these two older models? When will Sony put these LCD panels into their new releases?

4) Will at any point Sony issue updates to the a1 with these new LCD panels? I wouldn't expect so in the near future as there is no product registration for such a model. Remember, all new cameras will have these regulatory filings before they launch.

TRU,

All this is speculation. If you say you are speculating and you strongly believe so, I can agree that this is what you believe.

There is no proof that sony planned because then you have to show that sony released a statement or someone made statement who was directly involved in making such decision. Both you can not show.

I think it is dragged enough.

@zxaar: I really don't understand your point. The product registration proves advance planning. There is no legal way Sony could bring these new models to the market without advance regulatory filings.

But beyond that, think this through. If this was not planned by Sony then how did it occur? What is your alternative theory?

Of course Sony decided to do this. The right people at Sony had to sit down and decide to make this change. How else would it occur?

All engineering and manufacturing changes of complex electronic products take some advance planning. It's the nature of the work.

Give us an alternate explanation of how this happens with no advance planning by Sony, no decision by Sony to do this...I don't think we ever will get that from you because there is no reasonable explanation you can offer.

Of course it has been planned for a long time, but not as long back as the A1 or A7SIII. It takes much longer time to develop a new camera with a new sensor than just out a new lcd and a new board in an already existing camera........

Stop yourself TRU

David, no one said these revised versions of these cameras were in dev as long as the a1 or a7siii. But the point is that they were planned at least going back to last year, not as a some sudden result of part shortages, as some speculated.

Also given that Sony is now going to use updated LCD panels in these two older models, it still begs the question of why they are so stubborn in not giving these to the newer, more expensive models. Sony makes some of the best LCD panels in the world but won't use them in their own cameras, not even their $6500 flagship.

TRU why don't you just buy a Sony camera, you are so obsessed about Sony cameras.

“not as a some sudden result of part shortages, as some speculated.”

Who said it’s a sudden shortage of parts? I remember a few have speculated that this could be due to a shortage of parts but don’t remember anyone saying it’s a sudden shortage of parts.

Surely in a well run organisation any change in supplier (for instance due to shortage of parts) will be planned ahead.

@Handsome90: Please...are you really going to go there? The point that some made was that this was an odd and unexpected change, and so may have been brought about by an unexpected parts shortage. That was the whole point...that the parts shortage was unexpected and relatively sudden. Hence not giving the better LCD panels to newer more expensive models already in full production runs.

At this point we are just parsing words here.

The main point is that this was planned by Sony all along, at least going back to last year. Which gets to the question that you seem to want to avoid: why not put these better panels in their far more expensive flagship model? For that matter why not put even better LCD panels in the flagship? Sony is capable of doing so; they make some of the best LCD panels in the world.

I am sorry Magnar, but my full post was ironic. The key message is that people who should not care are concernd most.

In spite of how some folks continue to spin it, this is hardly an normal upgrade cycle since the Sony a1 was released with the inferior screen. If all of an sudden, all the models see the upgrade, then Sony's explaining why becomes shaky at best.

Expectations is the road to disappointment ...

Both of these statements can be true:

The a1 is a fantastic camera with so many great features that it really doesn't make a difference to many users about the back LCD screen.

Some owners of the a1 will not like the idea that Sony updated two older models with a better LCD panel than their far more expensive flagship model. And many Sony users are inclined to notice and put emphasis on spec sheet details. Remember Sony is the king of selling on specs.

@Magnar W: "Expectations is the road to disappointment ..."
That is a really wise saying...almost zen like...

@Thoughts R Us

More lack of Expectations is the road to disappointment. Shoot for the Stars, at least you might land on the Moon.

@Thoughts R Us

Quite a bit different than all the bad info we were getting from these supposed Sony Users on these boards which led all the bad info given. I suspect most real Sony users don't even post on these types of boards.

Also, regardless of what's posted that's real, those folks just keep moving the goal posts. Real facts apparently aren't important to them.

Sort like all that bad info when the 50mm 1.2 was release and, "Well They Said" . Which by the way, might not actually be 50mm according to Manny.

TRU, what would you say if you had a company that changes a minor detail of the specs of a product for whatever reason? You would say something meaningless like that. It's naive to think that this sort of statement provides the real reasons.

Anyway, who cares? These are minor alterations to excellent cameras that require an administrative change; hence, the addition of the a. It so minimal that Sony itself thinks it’s not worth an announcement. Tech companies aren’t really shy when it comes to grand statements. It’s a +/- meaningless change. You would not buy a new A7RIII because of the increased screen resolution (certainly, I wouldn’t change mine for that) and most people who do buy a new camera of this class would see this as a minor improvement.

If you believed everything the marketing department told you, then you would think the R5 is actually the perfect camera for high end video productions.

I still believe this is a move driven by the supply chain. Not by the marketing department. Perhaps parts shortages became an opportunity to specify a higher resolution panel instead. We will likely never know for sure.

Why can't some admit that the quality of the back LCD screen matters to some users?

We heard the same thing from Sony apologists about the menu system: well, it's not so bad, it doesn't matter, etc. Then Sony does a major change and all of a sudden a different tune is being played.

What will you say when Sony eventually updates all of their models to a better LCD screen?

We may not know the whole story, but we do know that Sony believes the quality of that back LCD screen matters.

Also pay attention to the pricing. We still do not have a price yet. If it is higher then that is a signal that this is a value added to the customer, at least in the view of Sony. And I believe that there is a good chance the price will be higher.

"Why can't some admit that the quality of the back LCD screen matters to some users?"

Is this up for debate? Quality of each and every component matters.

Whenever a product is made by any company they make decisions. Then buyers decide if it is a good buy or not.

"We heard the same thing from Sony apologists about the menu system: well, it's not so bad, it doesn't matter, etc. "

My sony A7r menu is perfectly good for me and i am fine with it. Its subjective. I can't stand canon's menu. Does not make it bad for you.

@ Thoughts R Us: "Why can't some admit that the quality of the back LCD screen matters to some users?"

Why can't some take in account how the screen is used, what fine detail the eye can split at the actual viewing distance, and what the screen resolution means for real world use? Or is it just the number of dots that interests you?

Nobody have said that higher specs are NOT welcome, but higher specs doesn't always play a noticeable role for what you can do with your camera.

I suggest you place the old and new model side by side, and then evaluate the screen quality, pragmatic, with as little bias as possible. Is one not useable and the other great? Or do both screens do the job just fine?

@Thoughts R Us

"Why can't some admit that the quality of the back LCD screen matters to some users?"

If the quality of the back screens matters as much as you say, why aren't you castigating Canon? They don't make a single camera with a resolution as high as these new Sony screens and yet I didn't see you mention this once in the 83 posts you've made in this thread.

The 5Dmk4 - a current model - which costs 3 grand - only has a 1.6m dot screen. The D90 and the RP - both only 1m dot - less than the eight year old Sony A7 - a camera you once called 'junk'.

The D90 only came out a year and a half ago and unlike any of the Sony cameras is not a mirrorless, so lacks the second hi-res LCD in the viewfinder to check critical focus - ditto the 5D - you're stuck with the low res rear screen.

Yet I don't see you admonishing Canon for this.

You said Sony was 'shafting' its users - you must think Canon is too, then?

" We don’t yet have an on-sale date for the new model." That's per Sony.

So Canon does have time to respond and Nobody as of yet has the higher res LCDs. Of course, one could go further and talk about the touch functionality of each maker's screen compared to the other. If you really want to dig deeper into who's really getting shafted.

We still have the FAKE news from posters to as why the changes. We only know what Sony has stated thus far.

Nikon Z7II:
Conclusion: 89 % SILVER
...But it's only really its slightly lower price that makes it stand out from a very competitive group. Thoroughly likable.

Sony A7R3:
Conclusion: 90% GOLD
.... it's a camera equally at home capturing fast action one moment, and expansive landscapes the next.

But the Nikon has one really good thing going and you can guess what, it is made by Sony!

@ whitelens

It is quite astounding that how fan-boy-ism could erode a person's ability to make logical argument. After you find out that spec wise your 'A7r3 is better than Z7ii' argument is completely false, instead of acknowledge that you decided to raise another even more invalid point as defense?

@evaeva0705:
This website is called DPR. I copied their final conclusions. This is how they rate these cameras. I was not aware that their conclusion is not valid on their own website.
You should go and straighten out DPR!

@ whitelens

Firstly, you ignore all the objective facts about Z7ii has better specs and refuse to explain why, this is an act of ignorance. Secondly, you can't copy and past conclusive statement made in different context and stitch them together, this is an act of deception. DPR have clearly stated that the scoring of a camera is relative to cameras released at the same time frame. In other words, you can't say a7rii is as objectively as good as a7riii just because they got the same DPR score. I thought this is obvious, but here again we can see how brand loyalty makes people fail to reason.

So no, it is your own conclusion that is not valid. It has nothing to do with DPR. Don't try to allocate this responsibility to others.

@whitelens: I agree with @evaeva0705: DPR clearly states that the ratings are relative to the time frame. You cannot compare the numerical scores for different cameras released in different times. That is highly misleading.

Otherwise you end up with a camera released 10 years ago having a higher score than one released this year, simply because in its time it was higher ranked relative to the competition.

OK you guys, since you claim I can not compare the Nikon Z7II to the Sony A7R3 since they are from different times, lets use the Sony A7R4, which is only one year older than the Nikon. Unfortunately that makes your Nikon look even further behind!

@Magnar W,
Sony: "The current models will still be available to purchase, in line with retail stock. We don’t yet have an on-sale date for the new model."
My point is, we can only imagine the mess in retail, especially online, when these upgraded models hit the shelves, especially if they have the same price tag (and it looks they do, at least MSRP).
If SONY made a minor visible name change (not just the ILCE), this would prevent many possible PoS issues, such as customers angry that the camera they bought has screen not as good as in specs they saw online before the purchase, customers returning cameras next day, retailers with stock of these older models, new or open box, etc.

Regarding Pros - you are right, of course. I know folks who continue to make all their money with their 5d2 and 5d3, and they do not need anything better yet.

@ Vladyslav Kosulin: How many would care if they get the old or the new screen? A few readers on photography forums, but not those screaming loudest, who use other camera brands.

This is just like other "issues" that are blown out of proportions for a few days or weeks, and after that almost nobody care.

@Magnar W, I do not know how many. But I know that I hate SONY screens (one of two main reasons why I stay away from Alpha, another being thier grip). Any improvement in this area is very welcome. All I am saying, SONY could make this improvement completely trouble free.

@ Vladyslav Kosulin: What is the trouble. New buyers get some more screen resolution, that's it.

The point that Vladyslav is making is that the way Sony is not changing the name makes it more confusing to customers and retailers. That is undoubtedly true.

Believe it or not, not everything Sony does is perfection.

@ Thoughts R Us: I think Sony buyers and users can take such minor changes without feeling violated.

From the "guest" responses here, I am not so sure about buyers/users of other camera brands. 🤣

@Magnar W: no one said anyone felt “violated”.... only confused. Which judging from the DPR and TechRadar articles, is a reasonable response.

@ Thoughts R Us: Hardly confusing, this was unexpected. Nothing more. Well, now we know.

Bahahahaha!

Spoken like an American. THIS is not America. This is a Japanese camera made for a global market. America don’t make cameras. None. The only users on here don’t seem to much care. The non-users are the ones stamping that users need answers.

I’ll wait for you to reply to yourself, hopefully from your actual other account this time. Don’t want to make that silly mistake again do you?

@ Elisam: Agree. Unlike professional critics, which are informative, enlightening and helpful, the agenda of these visitors seems to be creating noise to pollute any discussion except for what they like or use themselves.

Nothing wrong with wondering about or questioning specifications for different camera models, though. Or discussing how you can get the most out of your gear and work around issues and lacking features. That's what a gear forum should be about, I would say.

"There are a small number of users who are wondering why these new screens have not been used in the latest models that have only recently been announced, which is a fair question, but certainly probably has some reasoning behind it."

So why doesn't Sony give us the reasoning? They have been asked. DPR sent them a request for more information. Someone on another forum who is an a1 owner, asked Sony Professional Services, and was told they were not allowed to comment on it. Why?

When a company like Sony does something, people notice. That's a good sign for Sony of their size and importance. But that also means that people naturally will ask why. If Sony doesn't explain then that invites others to fill the vacuum with speculation.

I do find it to be a fascinating mystery and business case study.

Why specifically did Nikon release the D610? Users demand to know!!

@ Thoughts R Us: Haven't you heard about products being silently upgraded before? Small fixes that is not enough for a complete model upgrade?

Welcome to something that is very common in the industrial world!

@Magnar W: this is not a small change. What you speak of are internal tweaks that are invisible to the consumer. And they do not result in a new internal model number.

This involves changing out one of the main ways that users interact with their camera, and one that is very visible.

This also involves a component that Sony has been frequently criticized for, and so it is even more notable.

We also do not know yet if pricing will change. Those type of changes you speak of do not result in a price change. So if Sony changes the price then your theory is shattered.

@ Thoughts R Us: Tweaks like this is common. Sony even added an "a" so that their customers can be aware of this change. Still, this is a minor adjustment, since the new screen does not affect image quality or camera performance as a total. You just get some more resolution on a screen that already allowed you to do super duper ultra extreme precise manual focus.

You simply try to construct an issue or a problem here, I would say.

@Magnar W, come on you’re completely over exaggerating the kind of ‘tweaks’ done to hardware throughout its lifecycle.

I’m going on record to say the trolling of this change is embarrassing, it’s being fuelled by the anti Sony crowd but no need to lower yourself to their level by making these unrealistic claims... no company upgrades their screens like this mid cycle. I work with professional grade android supply chain devices and something this significant would be a whole new model.

And if as you say ‘tweaks like this are common’, why wouldn’t it be added to the A1, being such a minor adjustment?

I completely agree Magnar. This is downright ridiculous, especially all the posts from the Thoughts the Troll.

@ Woz D Boss: Ask Sony about the A1 screen. I don't know anything about their future plans.

@Thoughts R Us Sony don't care about you, your spin and false claims and negative comments and neither do we that use Sony.

All you write here is unwanted Noise, and the only thing you achieve with your comments are to ridicule yourself. So sad Try.....

Only Sony know why they exchanged the screen and updated the USB connection. I really don't care why they did it. I am just happy with my old Alpha camera and on behalf of the new owners of an A7RIII or RIV that they get this update.

@Magnar W I don’t care either way as a non Sony user, I’m just pointing out that what you say is flawed. Whilst your comments are a clear attempt at countering the negativity this change is receiving, it’s also coming across as negative on your part for underplaying the size of the change. The words minor and tweaks are the complete opposite of what they have done here.

In reality both resolutions are more than enough for people to accurately use the display but let’s not underplay it out of fondness for your brand.

@ Woz D Boss: We simply value this improvement differently, no matter if you are a Sony user or not. And no, I don't agree that this is a major issue.

Simply use your calculator to find how much the difference means for the area that the camera screen covers, and then relate the number of dots to how fine detail the eye can separate at the actual viewing distance. That's the argument I prefer to relate to when discussing how noticeable the change is. This would be the same for any camera brand.

I was talking from an engineering/design perspective, upgrading the physical screen is not a small change that is typically done to a product mid life cycle, that you are referring to as a ‘tweak’

@ Woz D Boss: Sony made the changes, that's a fact, but they did not make any fuzz about it. At least they added an "a" to differ these new cameras from earlier production units. Fair, or what?

The word "tweak" is yours. Not what I said.

How troublesome is it for you that Sony made these changes for two very popular and attractive cameras, so that they probably can have a longer production cyclus?

The logo on your camera makes you feel embarased, so you need to use a different logo? I doubt the logo or brand is the problem here.

And yet you can’t even tell?

This is hilarious.

I just think it’s funny you bought an A7RIV and were so embarrassed by Sony you cover up the name and bought two more!!

Cant make this stuff up...

Bahaha Z6 II - one of the worst ‘upgrades’ in camera history and you want to spout about it here as if it was remotely relevant. Go play with your toy camera made by your favourite outmoded company with no clue about photography.

You’ve got a right to be p!ssed that Nikon gimped your camera to bring out a MkII version to try and force you to upgrade. But of course, you think it’s brilliant. Funny that.

Are we talking about a7R IV and a7R V here?..

Oh yeah, greatest upgrade in history. I know TRU thought the best upgrade ever was the M50 MkII, but Stonejack dropped the Z6 II and TRU wet himself.

Both are still stomping about Sony not explaining to them why they would do free upgrades to older camera models and not instead follow Nikon and Canon into weak sauce ‘MkII’ cameras that are virtually the same. Classic.

Interesting. Not so long ago these forums were abuzz with the opinion that a single card slot rendered a camera virtually useless. Nikon upgrade to dual card slots with the Z6MkII and its not seen as a worthy upgrade? But then again, the dual card slot issue is so 2020.

3 years old A7III holds up very well still against the Z6II. But it’s the best upgrade ever.

@Elisam.
Mate, are you okay?

Processor (which has made little difference) and second card are the only real changes to this MkII camera. If Sony released an upgrade like that the salivating masses of trolls that have gone Gaga over the Z6 II would be decrying the end of Sony. It’s always the way. Weak updates are weak updates. The A6400/6600 are weak updates, too.

“
@Elisam... your ranting Sonyphant personality seemed so familiar and then you wrote "weak sauce"...

I know of only ONE poster that has used that expression over the years here: @Milc Man, @OSV and most recently @Bank Shot”

Wow, what a sleuth! You found another person using a commonly used phrase. Go you!

Stonejack is a trolls troll. With ridiculous double standards. I was confident he would have said something negative when Sony updated the A9 to A9II. His comment didn’t disappoint.

To refresh, Sony upgraded the A9 with a new processor, improved AF, 10FPS mechanical shutter, anti-flicker, bigger grip, improved weather sealing, Dual UHS-II slots, USB3, 5GHz WiFi, high frequency flicker reduction. And for the same prices as the previous A9.

StoneJack’s comment:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/1462538609/sony-a9-ii-has-a-refined-design-and-more-pro-oriented-features?comment=7678722991

I don’t know who those people are. It’s a common phrase. Sorry your sleuthing was about as impressive as your posting.

“ Stonejack is a trolls troll.”

No troll cries harder about trolls than Stonejack.

And when did my account start? Perhaps it’s a vernacular particular to a certain location that you’re not that familiar with?

Oh and by the way, I don’t hate Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Panasonic, Olympus, Pentax, Ricoh, Fujifilm, Leica or Sony. I use and have happily used cameras from all of them. I won’t list every camera that I’ve ever owned, but I’ll list out my most recent of each brand above: M6 II, Df, Fp, S1R, E-M1X, K30, GR, X-T3, M 246, A7C.

I’m not a Sonyphant. I have had quite a few Sony’s, but don’t use them as much these days. I do have an A7C for a particular project, it’s not my favourite camera, but it’s also a pretty good camera. As they are all are these days.

Sure, in some articles about Sony where there is BS being spread. I hate BS. I don’t hate cameras or brands.

Do you read some of this stuff that gets posted? 99.9% of the time what I’m responding to doesn’t deserve courtesy. BTW I posted a fairly non-inflammatory reasoned set of possible reasons why this may have happened in the way it has and the responses were toxic at best. Not one person could actually refute any of it, just toxic bile. These kinds of responses get condescending responses.

Some of these also come from experience with certain users. Stonejack for example and Backtonature. TRU doesn’t go toxic, he just repeats things like a robot to keep his comments at the top. He will do so until commenting on a page has died out.

I’m not going to try and convince anyone that resolution in a rear screen isn’t a good thing. I’ve shot plenty of cameras with 2.1m dots and 1m dots and everything in between (and much less). The difference between the screen on my M6 IIs and my 90Ds is stark.

I DO think there could be some engineering reasons why Sony haven’t had better screens before. 1.44m and 2.1m aren’t miles apart, but the difference is definitely there. However I don’t believe there are any cameras with screens that would suit the A7/A9/A1 cameras in terms of size and aspect ratio that are higher resolution than 1.44m dots. It seems to me that Sony have been waiting for a better screen to become available and are now that it is are implementing it in an initially limited way. I suspect these will become commonplace in Sony cameras in time.

I do also note that companies like Fujifilm also opt for a lower resolution LCD on their performance oriented X-T3 and X-T4 cameras vs their X-Pro3 for example. Now I don’t think anyone is accusing Fujifilm of being incompetent.

Every engineering choice is a compromise. There is a reason why all modern cameras aren’t ~50MP for example. People seem to understand the compromises there, but somehow that doesn’t apply to LCD screens?

As such I think it makes sense to add such a screen to their resolution oriented cameras, maybe at least initially. There may be little to no difference (now that these particular panels are available, I know nothing about their performance), but it may not yet be feasible for them to roll these displays out catalog wide.

I’m just speculating of course. But so are the doomsayers, but with far less logic behind what they have asserted.

Given Sony's secrecy on the price, it will be interesting to see if Sony charges more for this upgraded version. I think there is a good chance that they will; Sony has been moving their pricing upwards across the board.

Sony is trying out the Leica strategy, and it's not necessarily a bad one from a business perspective. Sell less but make more profit. And enough of the Sony user base appears willing to pay.

"it will be interesting to see if Sony charges more for this upgraded version. I think there is a good chance that they will; Sony has been moving their pricing upwards across the board."

I speculate it will have the same RRP since Sony is still calling it α7R III/IV

There’s no secrecy. Just TRU trying to cause doubt over a nothing situation. How many posts now TRU? Still have nothing new to add? Just keeping your comments at the top?

Yeah I thought so.

@Elisam: by definition there is secrecy about the price. It has not been revealed.

"Sony’s updated product pages don’t show whether or not the price has changed and, as of publication, Sony’s site isn’t linking out to any retailers with the new models in stock. "

So yes, no one knows the price yet of these updated models. Given Sony's tendency to raise prices, and the fact that they rarely give you anything improved for free (they are not a charity), there is a chance that they raise the price.

"by definition there is secrecy about the price. It has not been revealed."

Good no. No-one can then buy it.

Sony so far has botched this rollout due to lack of communication.

There’s also a very strong possibility that they don’t. But that doesn’t fit your particular narrative.

@Elisam: some reasons why this is a botched rollout by Sony:

1) It leaves customers with questions...customers who may want to purchase one of these two models, and customers who may want to purchase other newer models wondering if they too will get the screen upgrade.

2) It angers some of the customers who have bought the very recently released a1 and FX3.

3) Ordinarily this new higher quality screen should have been a cause for Sony to celebrate and promote, like they did with their new menu system. It's a clear upgrade and answers some of the criticism of Sony. But it seems like now they just kind of want to hide it, maybe because of points 1 and 2.

This is a strange move by Sony, no doubt.

Tru you are suggesting that a company wants to sell the products but its so evil that its not willing to let buyers know how much it would cost.

This is how stupid your way of thinking is.

@zxaar: I never said that Sony was evil...only that they botched this rollout of this new version of their products.

This is demonstrated in part by what you noted: that they put this new model out and don't let customers know price or availability, which is not smart business.

But I don't think they are "evil"...I think they have made some wrong decisions here. All of this could be cleared up if Sony would be more transparent on this.

BTW you can disagree with someone without resorting to personal insults.

Tru so the prices not known at this point is none issue then.

Now that it is settled we can move on.

Btw i called your idea stupid which it was. Did not call you stupid which would be personal attack. If you write nonesense others will point it out

@zxaar: Do you mean that "so the prices not known at this point is a known issue then?"

BTW, insulting someone's idea or "way of thinking" *is* insulting the person. If I did that with my wife or anyone at work they would consider it a personal insult. Most people would.

Because if they made a press release everyone would say what a pitiful update! Their other new cameras must be delayed. They must be losing share so they had to update SOMETHING. Etc. etc.

And let’s not forget “no one should buy Sony cameras now because maybe they will update other camera screens later”. (That one was basically yours TRU)

Thoughts R Us: It's only "unusual" and "fascinating" to you because you hate Sony so much. If your favorite company Canon had done the same thing (and I bet they have), you would be praising them, saying how wonderful it is that Canon loves their customers so much that they are upgrading their older models to make them even more happy !

Mikegt I said practically the same thing below as you wrote your comment. (And no we are not the same Mike.)

All the trolls come together here “like flies over the manure” as one troll says himself. The ones that keep coming back are BTN1, TRU, Tester_V.

@MikeRan: Sony should be transparent with their customers and not worry about what others would say in forums like these. That is not an adequate reason.

As it is, people are left to wonder and yes, some still are going to think that they should wait to buy on hopes of an updated screen. That's poor customer relations.

Level with your customers. Let them know why and make their decisions. Because now it looks like Sony has something to hide; that they made a poor decision.

Like canon was transparent about the limitations of the 8k and 4k120 modes on the R5 in the months before its release? Come on man. Your double standards are hilarious.

This is a rolling manufacturing change likely due to component issues. And it changes the product spec so they have to disclose via a new product specification sheet.

You deny it but this is the most likely and quite plausible explanation for anyone who knows how the electronics industry works.

TRU making good on his job to keep saying the same thing to make sure their comments are all over the first page of comments. A user with something to say will say it and move on. TRU has an agenda. A paid agenda.

@MikeRan: So much "whataboutism." A very defensive look.

So if this is a component shortage problem...a shortage of the lower quality LCD panels...then that begs the question: will this eventually force Sony to put the higher quality LCD's in other models, most notably their newer a1, FX3, etc?

That's the info that some customers would like to know. And certainly anyone looking to buy an a7R4 and a7R3 would like to know when these updated versions will ship, and will they cost any more?

Again, it's just courtesy to your customers.

"This is a rolling manufacturing change likely due to component issues. And it changes the product spec so they have to disclose via a new product specification sheet."

Agreed.

Thanks. Too many pretenders here...

“So much "whataboutism." A very defensive look.”

The issue is you giving Canon a pass and criticising Sony at “every opportunity”

Typically rolling manufacturing changes are invisible to the customer and do not impact specs.

This change is very visible impacting one of the two main ways that a user interacts with their camera (LCD screen plus EVF). And it comes in the context of Sony being criticized for being behind the curve with their LCD screens and so it is even more notable.

Pricing will be interesting. Typically a "rolling manufacturing change" does not increase the price either.

“ It's an unusual move for many reasons articulated in this discussion”

It’s not an unusual move. As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion it’s quite a common thing. The only ones trying to spin this as a conspiracy is you and your fellow astroturfers.

@Thoughts R Us Your comments are hilarious 😂😂. But it's actually a little sad that you are wasting your life on stupid comments under every Sony news article.

@David - this is what TRU is paid to do.

It’s really simple. It’s well known that it is pretty well pointless to have plants that promote a particular brand. It is obvious and not effective. They can use much more effective marketing to promote a product. But like political campaigns, it is much much more effective to have these kinds of voices that are intended to create distrust and ‘smear’ a person / brand. TRUs job is to smear Sony. This is utterly obvious if you’ve seen his posts. No, it has nothing to do with all these brands getting together. Again they aren’t trying to promote one brand. They are trying to smear one brand seen as the competition. Politics work the same, they don’t waste their efforts on every political party / candidate. If you look at the majority of TRUs posts, even on products not related to Sony, he manages to bring up Sony and use it as an opportunity to smear them. His behaviour is extremely obvious. Unlike many other dedicated fans who just dislike Sony, his agenda is much worse.

Additionally by seeming more impartial makes him look more credible. Which again is the point.

I’m a big fan of all the camera brands, but I hate BS. Unfortunately there seems to be the most around Sony... but this is largely through users like TRU. I wouldn’t feel the need to post here at all if users like TRU didn’t exist. Most of the comments here are fairly ambiguous. This is a pretty non issue. But he’s spent considerable amount of effort to try and spin this into some huge conspiracy. He holds around 10% of all posts on this thread. That’s one in ten comments. For such a small issue about a brand this user doesn’t use... that doesn’t raise any alarm bells for you?

Well I feel I just addressed this in another post replying to you. I don’t have a particular love of Sony. Nor do I go out of my way to smear Nikon or Canon. I have brought up Nikon and Canon, in relation to some of the absolute nonsense arguments brought up in here.

I’m currently tossing up between a Nikon Z, a Fuji GFX or Fp L as my next camera. There is nothing Sony in that list. I have one Sony now, first for a few years. I have more cameras from the brands I supposedly bash than I do Sony.

@Elisam: here is what you wrote when someone mentioned the Nikon Z6II in this very discussion, in a thread above:

"Bahaha Z6 II - one of the worst ‘upgrades’ in camera history and you want to spout about it here as if it was remotely relevant. Go play with your toy camera made by your favourite outmoded company with no clue about photography."

That doesn't sound consistent with your considering buying a Nikon Z...

And that's the risk that Sony takes by not explaining themselves or their intentions. Customer expectations can come back to bite them.

So Sony obviously feels that revealing the truth behind this move would risk more to them. And so that makes it a fascinating mystery.

You are fascinated by weird things.

Were you fascinated when canon overhyped an 8K camera months in advance of its announcement and failed to deliver a camera that can record more than 20 minutes without keeping all the doors open and powering from external sources? Yeah. Didn’t think so.

You are fascinated because you spend so much time trying to analyze every move Sony makes and you can’t seem to figure this one out.

@MikeRan: "whataboutism" is not a good look.

Yes this is fascinating to me...to each their own, right?

It is a business mystery, at a time of uncertainty in the world thanks to COVID, with all sorts of supply issues, etc. It involves a major company with deep resources. So yes, to me this is fascinating. If not to you, then fine.

Haha. Whataboutism is your MO whenever there’s a negative view of any canon story.

You are a troll through and through.

By the way I picked up my A1 today and it’s as good as all the reviews say it is. And I highly doubt any stills photographers who have looked through the EVF are at all concerned about the LCD resolution.

We still don’t know what you shoot with. You never say... fascinating.

@Stonejack - for someone who incessantly moans about ‘Sony trolls’ supposedly trolling Nikon articles, you sure spend a lot of time trolling Sony ones.

Elisam
I love trolling Sony trolls :) i knew you would come

As many people have suggested they likely upgraded the LCD because the existing one can’t be sourced in the quantities required.

You continually ignore that as a possibility.

So what gear do you shoot? Or do you not take pictures at all?

I explained my theory on all the above. You have seen my comments before. . You seem to have read all the comments. You just choose to ignore them. or as usual, dismiss them because they don't fit your narrative. You have 60 comments on this article. (No I didn't count. Just scanned through your history and there are 3 solid pages of comments...) 10% of the comments on this article ARE YOURS! Does that make you proud? And you wonder why some people think you get paid to badmouth Sony.

And all this talk about mystery....
The most mysterious piece is what gear you shoot with.
To be honest, you have avoided this question for years. I don't even think you own an ILC.. and if you told me what you shoot with I don't think I would believe you. (no matter what you said.)

Of which you have only your cell phone...

Love DPR :)

A complement... A troll to end all trolls... Congratulations...
You and your 62 comments are proof...
Goodnight.

“ I love trolling Sony trolls :) i knew you would come”

Well don’t cry like the little b!tch that you are next time someone says something unkind about Nikon.

@Malling

Until we see any pricing, I have yet to see any on the Sony site for these two updates, pricing that is, bit of a stretch to say what degree and or spin anything is.

I don't see how Sony is any different on updates and pricing as opposed to anyone else. So it's really not about glass half empty or not, but Your particular SPIN. You are complaining in your post, so really you aren't any different. Funny how some folks never get that.

At least Sony upgraded some hardware, unlike Canon launching the M50ii.

It’s not a free lunch to launch a marketing campaign, that’s why companies always make a cost benefit analysis beforehand, in this case a marketing campaign should result in a noticeable higher sales number so Sony can get their investment in marketing back, I honestly don’t believe an updated screen is a big enough update for that to be worthwhile, it’s mostly a nice to have not a need to have

Back to nature

nonsense, I ask people to stop moaning and complaining over something that there is nothing to complain about. seriously how can anyone spin this negativily.

The pricing you mentioned is speculative at the very best, but we all know why you have a need to comment, as your hate for Sony us well documented on this site, you are really the trolls of trolls.

@Malling: So why didn't Sony put out at least a press release about this change? Why not an article on their Alpha Universe website? Why keep the general name the same and only change the model number in small print? Why no pricing or availability?

If the updated screen is not "a big enough update for that to be that worthwhile" then why do it in the first place?

There are no good answers if you assume that is just business as usual. That's why some do these mental gymnastics to try to defend Sony. But we are missing some key information that Sony has not yet released.

@Malling
It's not Sony who the real Problem, folks like you are. You and your TRIBE and I ain't talking about Native Americans. You continually 24/7 complain about what others post that doesn't fit your Narrative. Period. I have no brand loyalty. You however are suspect to say the least to what you really are.

"Changing the LCD does not mean a Hardware upgrade."

If it's not a hardware upgrade, what is it? Is it a software upgrade? It can be only one of those two.

The back LCD screen is considered hardware. Therefore changing it to a higher resolution one is most definitely a hardware upgrade.

TRU

It’s an hardware upgrade not a new product, you just don’t spend you time or resources on such thing with a hardware upgrade. It’s not gonna create allot of new customers.

there can literally be tons of reasons why Sony decided to upgrade/change it. All from the screen being discontinued, increased in production cost etc. etc. we don’t really know why and I guess we never will.

@Malling: "there can literally be tons of reasons why Sony decided to upgrade/change it." So why doesn't Sony divulge the real reason?

As to one of your theories...an increase in production cost (of presumably the lower quality screen)...that doesn't fly because the better quality screen would cost more.

In fact, it's yet to be seen if this revised version will sell for more. Sony hasn't even given price or availability.

“ As to one of your theories...an increase in production cost (of presumably the lower quality screen)...that doesn't fly because the better quality screen would cost more.”

If you knew anything about anything you would know this isn’t true. But you don’t.

@Elisam: why so angry all of the time? Need to calm down...it's healthier. Chill out...it's just cameras.

What was angry about what I posted? Posting facts isn’t anger. Don’t try this angle because you’re losing here. Not that you had anything at all to stand on.

But you’ll keep posting the same BS under any poster that comes in and hasn’t already read your 65 posts in this one article.

I think you are overreacting. no one here knows why Sony did this. People are are just joking that Sony couldn't get any more of those old low res screens to make new cameras, so they upgraded them to higher quality ones. It is probably not true, but just minor banter against Sony.

They really don’t. You’re just making noise because that’s your job. Nothing more.

@Elisam: well technically Sony doesn't owe their customers anything except warrantee service...but if you want to do the most responsible thing for your customers, you owe them a bit of information about this change.

They have. They’ve said that these cameras get a different LCD with different specs. It’s not going to be a surprise. Nobody is not getting what they payed for.

Where is your demand that Canon tell us what the next 70 models of EOS M are going to be and when? Surely the EF-M users NEED to hear from Canon that their system is going to continue? Some users might think that they are cancelling the system with no releases?

And what about them cancelling popular EF lenses? Don’t you demand that Canon explain exactly what is going on?

I’d love you to link to those posts doing so champ.

@Thoughts R Us

All the noise is being made by the usual suspects while all the reasonable posts are being made by everyone else including MOST Sony users. So the only real question why are those usual suspects attacking everyone on such an basic issue? If you don't care about the LCD you can buy the older version while if you prefer the new one, Sony gives you the option to upgrade.

Yet the usual suspects have cooked up all kind of unproven reason as to why Sony has done this and why you should just use the EVF and do as they Tell You to do. Strange indeed.

Hahaha so all the ‘cooked up’ reasons by Sony haters are... reasonable. But reasons ‘cooked up’ by a few ‘Sony fans’ (that’s you’ve decided) are... absurd.

This lack of logic just boggles the mind. Nobody here knows why. We’re all just speculating. It’s mostly paid Sony trolls that are posting a million times over. I personal care very little about the brand or this particular move. I can’t stand the discussion around it.

@Elisam

Everything you are stating on this issue boggles everyone's mind. It's not Sony haters and or Lovers that are the problem. It is YOU that is the problem.

The fact that folks have to waste their time dealing with your endless posts(Group) on this issue is another problem. I don't find you to be funny.

Actually, more amateurs buy these high end pro models more than the pro's do.

It's always been that way. Right now probably the group buying the a1 the most are BIF shooters.

The press agencies going to the Olympics will already obviously have made their purchasing decisions.

But most a1's sold will not be used at the Olympics or by pro's.

@Elisam

Yeah, he's done it to me too:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4389088123/class-action-complaint-filed-in-new-york-alleges-sony-isn-t-addressing-a7-iii-shutter-failures?comment=1139958142

It is, as you say, an attempt to troll a user without him knowing.

Exactly. So that user doesn’t get an notification that they are talking about you. Just more twisted tactics.

I actually think DPR should remove the comments feature from all articles.

Ah no. It's normally my attempt to bring something to light that might get lost in an endless thread where it might not be seen. But sure, you go ahead and project your own Bjive. However concerning Elisam, his endless banter was too long and I simply wanted to address that one issue. Posting directly to him would have solved nothing. Posting it to the general group, that could address that issue far better.

"Just more twisted tactics." You must be looking in the mirror.

@backtonature1

"Ah no. It's normally my attempt to bring something to light that might get lost in an endless thread where it might not be seen."

So why don't you quote the original poster or give their name then?

“ However concerning Elisam, his endless banter was too long and I simply wanted to address that one issue. Posting directly to him would have solved nothing. Posting it to the general group, that could address that issue far better.”

Err what?! What an absolute cop-out. My post is like three under yours. You don’t think other ‘general users’ can read that far down? And what are these ‘general users’ that you need to converse with that needs to exclude the person you are talking about... oh wait... that’s admitting exactly what I said is true, but pretending like it wasn’t.

Because sometimes I am just lazy in that regard. But most times, it because of maybe folks like, just maybe you. I can't keep up with all those whom behave as such. I don't keep a list like some folks apparently do. I don't really care who you are.

I care about Photography, not brands nor bloated egos on some posting board. Also, I have ZERO reason to show folks that have proven that that they are devious, any real respect. So if you or anyone else falls into that camp, that will be the result. I normally quote/name those I respect. Not those whom clearly have an hidden agenda.

In other words: there can be intelligent, well thought through engineering decisions for such, but your average spec chaser can’t see that. Moar is best, always, for the average specbator.

You sound like you work for Sony, and got paid to post this.

@Elisam: how do you know that these panels are "wholly untested?"

I would expect that Sony tested these panels rather extensively before putting them into two of their cameras. I would certainly hope so.

And these are LCD panels...not exactly the most cutting edge tech these days. You make it sound as if they dropped in an entirely new image sensor or processor.

Sony put these LCD panels into the cameras for a reason; but they need to explain this rather odd unexpected update. They owe that to their customers.

Why is Sony essentially silent on this? Normally Sony is a king of marketing and would play this up. And of course, what everyone wants to know is why didn't they put these in their new a1 and FX3 models, which would have made the most sense.

“ You sound like you work for Sony, and got paid to post this.”

Oh yeah, logic and reasoning must equal being paid 🤦🏻‍♂️ Photography forums are an absolute cesspool these days...

“ I would expect that Sony tested these panels rather extensively before putting them into two of their cameras. I would certainly hope so.”

Oh it’s the spindoctor. Of course SONY have tested them. The point is none of the negative detractors here have tested them. Not one commentator on here has tested them. Before we assume they are instantly ‘better’, perhaps someone should test them?

“And these are LCD panels...not exactly the most cutting edge tech these days. You make it sound as if they dropped in an entirely new image sensor or processor.”

Yes, because all we need is the resolution spec. I’ve heard you. We’ve all heard you. Because you literally never stop talking.

“Sony put these LCD panels into the cameras for a reason; but they need to explain this rather odd unexpected update. They owe that to their customers.”

Sorry, but no they don’t. They changed the specs of a product and made it known that it was changed. That’s pretty common. Besides, you aren’t their customer.

“ Why is Sony essentially silent on this? Normally Sony is a king of marketing and would play this up. And of course, what everyone wants to know is why didn't they put these in their new a1 and FX3 models, which would have made the most sense.”

Pretty sure I explained this (or at least provided a plausible explaination, unlike your constant hyperbole) above. Assuming this is a new panel (please point to me another device using it, it may be constrained at this time. As such, at least initially, it may make the most sense to go into slower moving products that have been on the market a little while (but still sell) rather than constraining a whole new product range because of a lack of LCD supplies. How is that not explaining why they haven’t put it in their latest and greatest?

@Elisam: Sony does owe some explanation to their customers as a point of good customer service. If you are going to buy an a7RIV, wouldn't you want to know when this new improved model will hit the market, or if it will cost more?

If you are buying an a1, wouldn't you want to know if this new screen will soon come to that model? Many would. One Sony fan here, @RubberDials, has assured people that this new LCD panel is coming to other models like the a1. If true, then that changes the buying calculus for some.

And it is not normal to change the hardware on existing models that have been out 2 and 4 years. Give me other examples.

To me this is an interesting mystery and business case study. It will be fascinating to see it play out.

@Thoughts R Us

That was your 32nd post in this thread. The most by anyone by a huge margin.

Are you trying to beat a personal best?

@RubberDials: I always want to impress you :) 😀

@Thoughts R Us

"One Sony fan here, @RubberDials, has assured people that this new LCD panel is coming to other models like the a1."

Don't misrepresent me. I did not assure people of anything - I am not in a position to do that as you well know. I stated my opinion only.

Also, use the appropriate terminology - people are 'users' not 'fans' - you're not in school.

“ Practice what you preach much?”

I have how many posts in this discussion? TRU has how many? You have how many?

Yeah I thought so.

@RubberDials: "I did not assure people of anything"
Here is what you wrote in an earlier comment:
"I'm pretty sure Sony will update the A1 screen as well."

Also you wrote "I would expect the A7SIII, FX3 and A1 to also get updated screens. Why wouldn't they?
Sony isn't going to announce it - users need to check."

Now sure, that's your opinion...but you are one of the most vocal promoters of Sony, and so maybe you do know something.

I would say that you are a user and a fan. Certainly you promote and defend Sony every chance you get. You criticize other competing brands. To me that makes you a pretty big fan of Sony.

But these are quibbles over semantics. On to solving the mystery of the updated LCD screens!

“ Give me other examples.”

Canon M50 II. Canon M200. Canon 200D II. Canon 850D (if memory serves, or it may have been 750D... or 800D... or, well you get the point). Sony RX100Va. There have been countless ‘silent’ upgrades to pretty much anything technology wise. When you buy a Samsung phone you often have no idea which screen, processor, LTE chip, camera or whatever your particular device in your region will ship with. Apple use different brands of SSDs. Same as LCDs. Same as whatever. Sometimes companies bring in a silent update to align hardware or to streamline production or quantities buying through suppliers.

The only not-normal thing about this is all the non-Sony users demanding that Sony come clean ‘for the Sony users’. I haven’t seen a single Sony user stamping their feet in here demanding they know what’s going on.

@Elisam: none of those cameras had any external hardware component quietly upgraded. In fact when Canon did a minor update to the M50 they gave it a new designation, the M50 II, and marketed it as such. That's usually how it's done.

What you talk about are internal components that do not change the nature of the device or its specs. When Samsung might change its internal LTE chip, it doesn't change the fundamentals of the device. What we see here would be akin to Samsung deciding to update the screen on one if its 2 year old models that it still sells at a discount, and in fact making that screen higher quality than the current flagship model....But then saying nothing about it or why, just quietly doing it. That would get a lot of questions.

And there have been quite a few Sony users asking questions on this forum...you just don't want to admit it.

Wow, just really making up facts now hey? Hoping nobody would check.

Classic. Just classic.

“ none of those cameras had any external hardware component quietly upgraded. In fact when Canon did a minor update to the M50 they gave it a new designation, the M50 II, and marketed it as such. That's usually how it's done.”

Oh brother 🤦🏻‍♂️ YES and these cameras are now called A7R IIIa and A7R IVa. How is that ANY different? Other than your spin? Those camera were all marked as being actually new cameras, which is WAY worse. But yes, this is an evil Sony plot by evil Sony... because you say it is.

“ What you talk about are internal components that do not change the nature of the device or its specs. When Samsung might change its internal LTE chip, it doesn't change the fundamentals of the device.”

Erm, in different regions a Samsung Swhatever has been known to have different processors, some having completely different numbers of cores etc.

“What we see here would be akin to Samsung deciding to update the screen on one if its 2 year old models that it still sells at a discount, and in fact making that screen higher quality than the current flagship model....But then saying nothing about it or why, just quietly doing it. That would get a lot of questions.”

Bahahaha... so the only way for something to be ‘akin’ to some other situation is for it to be EXACTLY THE SAME? Right. Not much going on in the ol’ intelligence dept is there?

“ But then saying nothing about it or why, just quietly doing it. That would get a lot of questions.”

Oh and by the way, they’ve used completely different camera modules by completely different companies (not the same camera with the same specs manufactured by different companies), completely different sensors and optics. But because (according to you) didn’t fundamentally change the nature of the device, this was a-ok. Yet Sony releasing a small update with a small change, that they are telling customers about... Sony are evil.

Got it.

@Elisam: surely you can see the difference.

First, Sony didn't give the a7R III or a7RIV a different name; it's the same. Check out their website. They only gave it a different internal model number. And without any usual marketing announcement or otherwise. Very quiet about it.

"Isn’t there a point where the resolution becomes so dense that the human eye can’t even see individual pixels?"

Usually this point determined by the current Sony camera :)

@ BackToNature1: No one here say they will go for the lower resolution option when there is a new model with higher resolution, if the price is the same.

But is there any noticeable differences between these panels for real world work? What can you do with the new version that you could not do with the previous screen?

I mean we can probably shoot the same photos with the A7III EVF (2.3M dot) as with A7SIII EVF (9.44M dot). But which would you rather use?
Yes the screen is not as much noticable, but still noticable. And not just that. Newer, higher res displays also tend to be higher quality as well (higher brightness, better contrast and viewing angles).
Should just ignore everything that's bad in a Sony camera? Like their hypothetical IBIS?

There are plenty of situations where one needs to use the back screen vs the EVF to frame a shot.

As for reviewing your shots, again, there are plenty of situations where you would prefer to use the back screen vs hold up the camera to your eye. Let's say you want to view the images with someone else; you need that back LCD.

Often times after shooting at one of my favorite spots, I go to a nearby coffee house and relax and view the images. It would be kind of odd and uncomfortable using the EVF to review images in such a situation.

Either the back LCD screen matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't then why did Sony update the LCD screens on these cameras? If it does then why didn't they put this better quality LCD in their by far most expensive flagship camera, or their FX3? For that matter why not put this in their $4500 a9II?

ok thank you... that explain why Sony offers that feature in A9II and A1 pro models.. Canon too only in Eos R, Eos R6+R5...

Just for pro's to play around with senseless features. You made my day!

@Walter K

"explain why Sony offers that feature in A9II and A1 pro models.."

Because it's a marketing point. Why does Canon and Leica offer 20fps in their milcs when the sensor doesn't read out fast enough to make it viable for moving subjects? Because it looks good on the spec sheet and people don't generally know how fast sensors read out.

'Protecting' the sensor with the shutter is like protecting a Ming vase with a Picasso.

Presumably Sony offers it only in the A9II and A1 because they both have carbon shutter blades and are less fragile - but I still don't think it's a good idea.

@RubberDials: nice to know you think Sony puts in a feature to fool people who are spending $6500 or $4500 on a camera.

The engineers at Sony might disagree with you.

Oh so now the Sony engineers know what they’re doing because it fits this particular narrative of yours?

@TRU

The feature impresses people like you, (as it obviously has) not the buyers of the A1 or A9II - I can assure you no-one chose either camera because of that feature, which is a gimmick.

You used the word 'fool' not me - a good example of the exaggeration you always apply when paraphrasing someone. Sony is not trying to 'fool' anyone, but the feature - which originated from Canon - is of dubious value in my opinion.

@RubberDials: So you say that Sony put that shutter closure feature in the a1 and a9II as a "marketing point" but then say that "I can assure you no-one chose either camera because of that feature, which is a gimmick."

So by your reasoning it's not much of a marketing point...because it doesn't sell anyone on the camera.

You also call it a "gimmick"...so by your assertion, Sony has put a "gimmick" into their most expensive cameras to sell people. To me that sounds like you are saying that Sony is trying to "fool" its customers by trying to sell them on a "gimmick."

But then you assert that this doesn't sell anyone on the cameras...so I guess by your estimation it's a failed marketing technique...aka what you call a "gimmick."

Either way by your account it's not a good look for Sony.

@ zxaar: People don't have to buy a Sony camera.

Some other brands sell "new" products with old sensors and mediocre performance, like medieval tracking AF performance. Sounds like some think this is more fair than selling previous generation models at a lower price (still very good cameras) and cutting edge tech at a higher price, since new technology will make them feel that their previous camera is bad ... well.

When we buy a camera, we know the specs. The camera is what it is. Why can't some accept such a simple fact?

@Magnar W
with all due respect, but you are off the point here.
1. Sony's decision to continue selling previous generation models for long times is one thing. It is quite questionable to me from a marketing/business perspective, but if it works for them, fine. Yes, potential buyers can know the specs of the products, no prob.

2. Sony's decision to suddenly and silently equip a current (A7R4) and even a previous gen model (A7R3) with a better rear display while at the same time new models - even more expensive ones - like "flagship" A1, FX3 or A7S III not also with that (still far from state of the art) 1024x768 pixel (2.36 Mdots) display without any communication and information as to why - is extremely strange corporate behaviour, "even by japanese image makers standards".

./.

3. If Sony in the (near) future also puts a better display into any or all of their current models A1, FX3, A7S III, A7 III, and A7C - and sells them at same price as earlier serial numbers - it would be an important spec unknown to potential buyers. Anyone not needing a camera today / ASAP woudl be very smart to hold of buying one of these models today and wait a bit if/what Sony does.

4. This is very different to "waiting" for the next generation model / significant (hardware) update. Bad enough, if you buy a camera today and tomorrow a better successor is launched. But at least mitigated by typically higher price for new model compared to previous one.

@ unoturbo: There might be reasons for Sony's decision that we don't know, like refresh rate, the need of professionals, etc. This might differ from amateur photographer heuristics and biases, which often is focused at specs without looking too much at what these specs mean for real world work.

I simply don't agree with you here.

Let me try to summarise the discussion here.

From one side we have users that provide a well put argumentation in favour of the main point, which is that Sony should update the flagship models as well.

On the opposite side we have users that can't provide a single argument challenging that, yet they disagree. Meaning, they don't want Sony to update flagship cameras with better LCD, bit can't explain why.

Brilliant. 😂

there are specs and specs. Better (or in this case "less subpar") rear display or EVFs in digital cameras are a very important spec *for real work*.

Electronic displays are the primary user interface on cameras, smartphones, tablets, notebooks, PC/monitors - all the work we do on and with these tools is 100% dependant on what we see on the display and how well we see it. Considering touch screens, their functionality and implementation/integration into user interface is even more crucial.

It is quite astounding that Sony cameras have been lagging over many years now in this area (rear/touch displays, not EVFs - except A7C). Very hard to understand and even harder to accept from this large electronics company.

I don't mean this a "Sony bashing" - I find their products very advanced and interesting in many aspects.

@ Magnar W I remember you have defended Sony's use of lower quality LCD on high-end body several times in the comment section but you seem to ignore everyone who has pointed out your argument not making sense and keep repeating the same thing. At first you claim it might be due to battery consumption, and someone have pointed out that A7r3a/r4a's battery life is almost the same after the update.

Then you silently removed this point and start claiming professionals might 'need' a lower quality LCD, which is a jaw-dropping and even less realistic argument. Would you say professionals might need a lower battery life or lower dynamic range? It seems like you love Sony so much that whatever they do, you try to persuade yourself that it is a good decision without thinking logically.

@ evaeva0705: I'll rather look at what the tools can do, and what specs mean for real world work, than join the "specs for specs sake" talkers.

Higher fresh rate will need more power, so you can't compare the A1 directly with the A7rIII in this regard. And I don't have to repeat my claims in every tread, or else I am "silently removing this point", or what?

The resolution of the A1 screen is within the limit for resolution of the eye. What more do you need? With such a screen I can even place focus in or out of the focus plane to get aberrations where I want them. Good enough, I would say,

I have never claimed that professionals "need" lower screen resolution. They/we can do excellent work with such a "bad" screen, though. And we can do much professional work with 12 or 24 Mp cameras too, dependent on what we do, of cause.

The logics is that the camera is a tool, and the main point when making a buyer's decision is if the actual camera model fills your needs or not.

@ Magnar W, why you keep throwing out claims that are not better than pure conspiracy?

This is a gear form, people come here because we care about spec. If you are interested in 'real world work', then sorry, every camera released maybe after 2015 have specs sufficient for real world work. So here, what you're doing is just bringing out this 'spec is not relevant to real world work' argument selectively/conveniently in scenarios where the brand you like have specs inferior to the competitors. I did't see you calling people praising A1's 9m EVF "specs for specs sake" talkers, which shows your biased standard clearly.

Also, you keep saying the 1.44m dot LCD has higher refresh rate without any proof. Now you even added "resolution of the A1 screen is within the limit for resolution of the eye", which you also provide no proof. The fact is, many people have reported that they can see the difference between 1.44m and 2.36m.

@ evaeva0705: So you want specs for specs' sake? Ok, but I simply don't share this perspective.

You did not even answer why you need more resolution than what the eye can split. Just accusing me for being a conspiracy theorist for not agreeing with you. This is NOT a factual argument. Well.

If you want to find the resolution angle for the unaided eye, there are plenty of information on the web. Then do your math. Have you tried a search for such info? Very helpful when discussing Mp and file/screen/paper resolution.

Many people report that they see a huge difference between 12 and 24 Mp from relative small prints too, but when doing well controlled and quality-assured blind tests, people can't pick the difference from 100 cm/42 inches wide prints, studied at a close distance. People are pretty easily biased. And what is wrong with trying to look behind this, to look for facts?

Funny that the Nikon users want to bring out ‘specs is specs and specs are important’, when talking about Sony. When people say ‘oh Nikon AF isn’t up to spec’ they always retort: ‘Nikon AF is good enough’. So is good enough not good enough when it’s Sony? Seems so.

@Elisam: when in doubt, bring up a "whataboutism" and try to change the subject.

The issue here is simple: why did Sony issue this seemingly very odd update? And you have to admit it is odd, because when have we seen this sort of hardware update to older models before? Without any real explanation or marketing, either? We don't even know if the new models will sell for the same or more money, or when they will hit the market.

Some customers need this info to make an intelligent buying decision.

We’ve seen it heaps before. It’s only your stamping that is the root of this ‘movement’ to know why. Only your kind will sit around and trump up conspiracies around this kind of non-issue. You would trump up any conspiracy on any choice Sony made about these new LCDs regardless of the outcome. Because that’s your sad, lonely little purpose.

“ Some customers need this info to make an intelligent buying decision”

We all know you’re our greatest advocate of what is right for Sony customers 🤦🏻‍♂️

@ Thoughts R Us: Don't ask "Why" with Sony. They are good at surprising us. On the other hand, they deliver some very good and powerful cameras.

@cbphoto123

"@zxaar... With the lock-downs in Germany, are you missing your spinning classes?"

No.

Are you missing yours? So much spinning classes on your mind.

@Magnar W: You wrote " Don't ask "Why" with Sony. They are good at surprising us."

I always love to ask "Why?" :) It's more fun that way. A surprise is best when you can understand why.

"On the other hand, they deliver some very good and powerful cameras."
I will agree with you there.

@Magnar W

"The resolution of the A1 screen is within the limit for resolution of the eye. What more do you need?"

You know that A1 has an EVF with 9.4M dots, right? Which is 6-7 times more than the 1.4 dots hat you advocate... (not pixels, divide this number by three for equivalent pixels, duh...)

Interesting discussion... I'm sure you will have the last argument here.

You look at the EVF trough an ocular - a loupe.

Also, resolution goes in two directions, so you need four times the pixels to get double resolution.

Strange how little informed some are.

@Magnar W All smartphones with full hd screens today offer at least for 4 times better resolution than on Sony LCD, yet your eyes struggle to see the difference... Interesting... Time to get new glasses?

@mikegt Everyone is questioning the reasoning behind this decision. Even if you have a well documented history of dislike against Sony, you are still allowed to express your opinions without being declared insane by online gatekeeping forum vigilantes.

Frankly I found your posting not only oddly personal but frankly very irrelevant to the topic and in general.

@thoughts - i like your nicely written (hypothetical) scenario! :-)
@Michael Berg - agree 100%

for me it is also impossible to understand why Sony is doing this. But then, i also never understood why they kept making more units of previous generation/s of camera models, rather than just quickly selling off any remaining stock in warehouses and sales channels. Producing more A7R3 in 2021 makes zero sense to me, and putting newer/better rear displays into them makes less than zero sense to me, when at the same time new, high price models only get "same old" displays. really strange.

"Everyone is questioning the reasoning behind this decision."

Could you guys stop talking for everyone here. I for one do not mind their decision.

I even did not mind when canon decided NOT to provide heating solution in R5 and released well done video camera (with proper heating) in 3 to 4 months later.

Some of us do not care what companies do. We see if their product makes sense then we buy it otherwise no cigar.

@unoturbo
Another in long line of accounts to do what we are used to here by now.

"Some of us do not care what companies do. We see if their product makes sense then we buy it otherwise no cigar."

well, and many of us are smarter than that. We do observe what (potential) supplier companies of our tools and gear are doing. And we try as best as we can to buy the best possible tools at the best prices.Unless our current cameras were broken or inoperable, we are smart enough right now to wait a little while before buying any of the following Sony camera models: A7R3 or A7R4 to make sure we get one with the better display (and maybe other hidden improvements - eg fixed shutter blades?) or A1 (we might cancel our preorders), A7S3, FX3 - to see whether Sony will also equip those with (somewhat) better displays soon.

And we, the smart buyers of this world - look down a but on all those "who don't care about suppliers' product/system strategies" as not so smart, ignorant consumers or even worse, as blind(ed) brand fans.

If what we're hearing is true about some parts becoming hard to source, Sony may have been forced to use these higher res LCD's due to unavailability of the older ones. As they became harder to source, Sony may have prioritized the supply to their newer models, only to end up with a large stock of new models with old LCD's and production of older models delayed unless alternatives were found. Don't be surprised if the new models receive the upgrade as existing stocks are sold off. So if you're in the market for an A1, but don't need it ASAP, holding off might be a good idea.

@Michael Berg

"Even if you have a well documented history of dislike against Sony, you are still allowed to express your opinions without being declared insane by online gatekeeping forum vigilantes."

Mikegt did not declare Thoughts R Us insane. He said he had an 'insane hatred' of Sony. Not the same thing at all.

"Even if you have a well documented history of dislike against Sony,"

Lol. Thoughts R Us has made more posts about Sony than any other forum member - including Sony users. I would not describe it as a 'dislike' of Sony - unless I was being ironic.

He has THIRTY posts in this thread alone - far more than anyone else. 14 of those posts reference the A1 and the majority of them make the same point, just at different times of the day.

He has accused Sony of 'shafting' it's users, being 'disloyal', showing 'communication problems', needing to 'explain its actions' and acting unethically.

Contd.

He has also used the updated A7rIII/IV screens as a springboard to range widely in his criticism of all recent Sony releases and even the recent compact G lenses. He even uses apophasis (look it up) to link the A7III shutter controversy by denying there is a link.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/8756997638/sony-quietly-updates-the-a7r-iii-a7r-iv-with-improved-lcd-displays?comment=1914651694

"Frankly I found your posting not only oddly personal but frankly very irrelevant to the topic and in general."

That's your prerogative. The vast majority of comments in this thread are irrelevant because they are talking about things other than the A7rIV and A7rIII screens.

And rather than play the prig here, why not just be grateful that you don't use a brand that is under constant attack from an army of trolls and astroturfers?

"@zxaar... coming up quite short with your firmware whataboutism."

R5 overheats and burns you and TRU. Canon should rename it troll burning camera.

:-D

Michael Berg: No, not everyone is questioning the reasoning, just you and a few other anti-Sony trolls.

unoturbo: Sony is pro-consumer this way. Thanks to this policy I was able to buy a 42 megapixel still & 4K video camera (the Sony A7R II) during one of their periodic sales for only $1,298 brand new. I like their policy of keeping the old models in production - it allows them to sell high-spec models like the A7R II at prices no other manufacturer can match. Understandably the other makers are not happy with Sony's way of doing things, but that is competition for you.

cbphoto123: I went back and counted again, it turns out you are correct, it is 6,000 over two years. You are missing the point though that is still a crazy number of comments. If you took the time to read some of them you would know that he has been praising Canon to the heavens and bashing Sony since circa 2015.

I noticed in your recent history that you have been praising TRU's comments. Evidently you & he must be buddies, which explains why you are defending his crazy crusade against the Sony corporation. There is also the distinct and disturbing possibility that you and he are actually the same person...

../..
The visual angle spanned by a 2.4"-wide LCD panel at a distance of 45cm is equivalent to observing the aforementioned combo test picture on a 50" TV at a distance of 4.59 meters, or about 15.08 feet.

The combo 1080x1620-pixel picture is available here:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103722194_55203c780e_o.jpg

Can you /actually/ tell, displaying it on your 50-inch full HD TV, and observed from a distance of 4.6 meters, which half of the picture is the 144M version, and which one is the 236M version ?
If you can't, do you really think you would be able to /actually/ perceive the difference in resolution between a 1.44M and 2.36M 3-inch LCD panel observed from a distance of 45cm ?

"do you really think you would be able to /actually/ perceive the difference in resolution between a 1.44M and 2.36M 3-inch LCD panel observed from a distance of 45cm ?"

yes, i can. and i also can for a FullHD or 4k display in 3.2" diagonal - which should be standard today for any decent higher-end FF mirrorfree camera in 2021 (but is not, unfortunately).

Also my viewing distance when composing images or chimping them on rear display is more like 20cm - max. 25 cm.

also there seems to be some mistake in your image dimensions - shouldn't it read "image width" rather than "height"?

"Also my viewing distance when composing images or chimping them on rear display is more like 20cm - max. 25 cm."

Shows all you talk here is nonesense. At 20cm it is very uncomfortable for humans to focus and see.

You are just making stuff up to win an argument on the net.

believe it or not, but i do view rear display onmy cameras from about 20-25cm distance. Especially when it only has a measly 800x600 pixels resolution - or in camera company marketing speak: 1.44 MEGAdots. Lol.

i consider it a shame to see any new, higher end, expensive camera in 2021 to still come with such poor rear displays - or even worse, subpar EVFs like the one in Sony A7C (which i would otherwise have been interested in). And to be sure: this applies to all brands, not only Sony.

Normal human beings find it very difficult at 20cm viewing distance.

"Normal people" don't read newspapers with arms fully stretched out to the max. Only farsighted folks do. :-)

Same for camera displays.

I use rear display all the time to compose images and review them (chimp) on my EOS M and M6 II - because (regrettably) they don't have a viewfinder. I don't hold camera with arms fully extended, but as close as possible to allow my elbows resting on sides of my ribcage to hold camera as steady as possible.

When camera is on tripod my eyes may be a bit further away from display - but even then, when i want to assess critical sharpness of shots before or after capture, using 5x or 10x magnifying mode on rear display - I move as close as possible to display. Simply to see as much detail as possible, especially on weak low-rez displays and/or under bright/difficult lighting.

Don't think I am "abnormal" in any way. Rather fully in line with most other "normal" photographers with a desire to create quality images using rear display.

If you know an improvement is around the corner, why spend $6k now?