A closer look at Pureview: Nokia's 808 and 1020 compared in our studio test scene

I don't think you've had the opportunity to use an N8 or an 808... those smartphones can produce some pretty good jpegs

troll detected.

FP2 brought some functionality changes.. I don't recall any IQ improvements. The 808 was maxed out from the get go.

There really is not much that could be done to reduce the steps without stripping functionality and choice, or creating a very crowded GUI.

What comes to my mind is that in the step 3 the Edit function could be made directly available without need going into the menu and that steps 7 and 8 could be merged to allow directly choose from Send SMS, Send Email and Send Bluetooth.

I for a one always prefer more options and control over the whole process despite of possibly complicating things; but obviously there are other needs and views too, as is evident from the success of iPhone and the like.

You do realize that the iPhone allows you to resize at the point you attach the photo to the email and somehow doesn't have a crowded GUI.

Yes, Apple is better in that respect, but I've used Apple products since the 80s, so let me say that the problem with the iPhone is that you're tied into Apple's way which means endless hassles when you want to do something that's even a little bit out of their very narrow and rigid use case. Even little things like accessing files directly requires a separate app.
It's like marriage, a lot of compromise is required to keep Mama Apple happy.

"Even little things like accessing files directly requires a separate app."

No such app exists. There is no way of accessing arbitrary files in any other third-party app on the device itself. (Not to be mistaken for iExplorer and the likes, all running on the desktop.)

This is one of the reasons jailbreaking is a must under iOS.

The 808 is fine with Feature Pack 2... perfectly usable as a modern smartphone.

sounds like total bs to me...

Sorry, but all those images are overprocessed and, worst of all, most of them are meaningless and deeply uninteresting. As for the price, €779 for the Lumia 1020 isn't exactly cheap (the 808 is soon to be discontinued, hence the low-ish price). Re the two devices issue, the typical smartphone consumer has usually two or three of them and he can't be seen in public without a tablet. So what was your point again...?

"most of them are meaningless and deeply uninteresting" ? Are you suggesting that the camera is responsible for that ? Please, tell us which camera takes "meaningful and interesting" photos on its own, thanks !

"they both lack sharpness"

Try to compare the 1020 and the 808 to all the other smartphones on this comparison tool, at "print" resolution (= all at the same size). The 1020 and the 808 are easily MUCH sharper than the competition, by a mile. And that's all that matters to me. 3mm more in thickness to get the best camera on a smartphone is absolutely worth it, to me. Your priorities might be different, though.

iphone 5s vs lumia 1020 at the same output size (print):
http://imgur.com/VjlQNaK

@Manuel:
if you don't like the ooc, wait for 2014 when the 1020 gets raw support, then you can adjust everything to your likes.
It's the first popular phone I know that will have raw support. How great is that?

"RAW in a smartphone?"

Well, the 1020 certainly deserves it. With RAW support, the built-in, pretty cr@ppy default settings (sharpening / NR / saturation boosting) can finally be circumvented and a decent image can be created. (It won't be of 808 quality, edge sharpness- and noise-wise, though.)

Please, Manuel, tell me more about the "typical smartphone consumer". :D

I've heard those RX100 have bad reception quality.

Does anyone care about reception quality nowadays?
Seems like all people care is that it "runs Android" lol

Manny, don't forget the first rule of usability engineering: "Everything you know is wrong."

Nothing's wrong with it per se. It's wrong when it becomes a geeky religion and people just won't touch (or mock) anything else that's not on Android:)

Both the 808 and the 1020, was never officially designed to be used at full 38MP. The 808 was designed for pureview 8mp, with a 5mp option to get more zoom and closeup shots. The 1020 was designed for 5mp pureview only.

check out

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx100/12

and select Nokia 808 pureview in the comparison. It is pretty clear the Nokia 808 resolved easily more detail than the RX100 at low ISO 100. This is especially so if you show the rear of the blur volkswagon beetle image. The 808 clearly is able to resolve the ink printing moasic interlacing, whereas it is all a blur on the RX100. Next look at the fabric or the martini label just below the cap. The 808 easily out resolving the RX100.

Does the 808 look not sharp enough to you there?

you can change the Sony RX100 to render a ACR RAW image, the Queen of hearts seems sharper there. But still focusing on the VW beetle, and textures, does not help the RX100 render more than the 808 JPG.

Not saying the RX100 is not good. The AF alone is enough to put the RX100 way past the 808 and 1020. Also the RX100 has amazing performance at high ISO. This is where the 808's smaller sensor pales in comparison. Just only in the right situations, will the 808 achieve higher performance over the RX100

"pretty much nothing, RAW can't fix bad optics"

Exactly. Hope Nokia release a true photo enthusiast-centric camera phone without silly "form over functionality" restrictions - like the 808.

> In some cases Lumia is actually better!
The Lumia 1020 is never better than the D800, unless you define "better" as smaller or being a phone. For actual photography, AF, IQ, high ISO, handling, VF, versatility -- forget it.

> 1020 with its OIS get you usable photos more consistently than DSLRs with slow zoom lenses.

Yes because it common for people to buy a camera like the D800 and mount slow zoom lenses without VR on it. /sarcasm/

Maybe initially not but the 808 has proven time and time again it can resolve impressive detail at 38mp, across the entire frame.

Actually at 50 and 100 iso it is very very usable at 38mp

I thought there is a Print Mode (8 MP) button up there.

Actually 808 works very well. I´ve done quite many 50x70 cm englargments from 38 MP files (most of them were 60-80 % crops from the files). Why use 5 Mp when you can get so much more...?
It`s a pity I can`t send you a file so could judge yourself...

I'm stuck with Google, and having this camera hardware on an Android would be nice.

I'm with Stig as well, I call major BS. After having used WP8, I can't use the others, WP8 just feels so much more modern. It's sleek, smooth, CPU-efficient, simple to use and does everything you need well. As for knocking "Nokia branded devices", I call even bigger BS. They are the sturdiest devices out there, almost drop proof and their navigation capabilities that come with the preinstalled maps and strong and accurate GPS receiver make all the other phone users green with envy. People look at me having flawless voice navigation in my language with no hickups or mistakes whatsoever and they just can't believe I'm using no data at all.

Ditto, just changed from Android to WP8....holy smoke, what a slick machine. The 1020 camera is truly a revelation. it certainly sticks it to my DSLR in some situations......

I like WP much more than android. There was nearly no acclimatization period. Android is a laggy playground for poeple who like to tinker and have a fetish with installing roms and adjusting settings.
I'm glad this camera is available on a smart, modern OS like Windows Phone.

"For my own sake"? Are you threatening me Stig for sharing my opinion on a piece of electronics? You must be a model representative to Windows Phone users.

Michael, I think it's obvious that he is not threatening you. I take it what he means is that you are embarrassing yourself by ridiculing WP and Nokia like some teenager Apple fanboy, when in reality Nokia Lumia Windows phones are as capable and in many respects better than the Samsungs and iPhones. So he's suggesting you'd be better off keeping your embarrassingly wrong opinion to yourself, At least that's how I took it and I kind of agree with him.

"By mad marty (15 hours ago)
I like WP much more than android. There was nearly no acclimatization period. Android is a laggy playground for poeple who like to tinker and have a fetish with installing roms and adjusting settings.
I'm glad this camera is available on a smart, modern OS like Windows Phone."
- - -
My S4 Active is NOT laggy!

"My S4 Active is NOT laggy!"

Neither is my N7 2013. It's just that you need to close background tasks / tabs in browsers. Then, it'll be really snappy and responsive.

I love my N7 2013.

You need to realize that such high resolution camera was only possible with Symbian at the time 808 was released. Nokia used a dedicated DSP to process the data and from all mobile OSes only Symbian had architecture with modularity needed to support the DSP.

It took several years for Microsoft to develop software support needed for such resolution and Nokia also had to work with Qualcomm to customize CPU. It's a lot of work, it's not like you take another OS, install it on smartphone and enjoy. It's not plug-and-play in PCs.

As for 1020 being inferior to 808 - the 808 was too big to gain popularity in modern market. They had to make compromises and reduce camera module size. Still, 1020 has the best camera in modern smartphones by large margin.

BTW, regarding the 1020's preferring choosing higher ISO's and, at the same time, a bit overexposing images:

- as I've pointed out several times (back in September too - see my Sony Z1 comparison), at ISO 400, there isn't as destructive NR as at ISO 800.

- the 1020 tens to over-expose images, which is certainly visible in this case too.

Therefore, if you manually lock ISO at 400 (max.) and possibly also shutter speed (not to allow the phone to introduce motion blur), you can let the camera under-expose (or, for that matter, properly expose) the image. While the resulting image will be a bit more noisy (particularly if you do under-expose and, consequently, you'll need to do some shadow puulling in pp), it'll be FAR more detailed.

Of course, the introduction of RAW to the 1020 will solve this problem too. Before that, however, you should never let the 1020 go over ISO 400, should you want to preserve detail.