Adobe will release the last update to Lightroom 6 &#39;towards the end of the year&#39;

http://www.dxo.com/us/practicalphotography

Where's the lawyers when you REALLY need them?

How is a product that is still on the market, going to be "unsupported" a few weeks later?

Shouldn't there be a buffer period before a company can do that?

Oct 29, 2017permalink

landscaper1

It's precisely this sort of "to hell with the customers; it's all about maximizing our profits" attitude that led me to decide to buy PS6 (even though I wasn't ready to upgrade from PS5) and LR6. I realized that once Adobe got full control of its users via subscription, it would be very easy to someday modify users' image files so they couldn't be opened without the latest iteration of subscription software.

What I don't understand is why other post processing software developers aren't doing a more aggressive campaign to sell Abobe's amateur users on the merits of their alternative products.

Oct 30, 2017permalink

turretless

"What I don't understand is why other post processing software developers aren't doing a more aggressive campaign to sell Abobe's amateur users on the merits of their alternative products."

Oh, they're doing it all right. At least some of them :)

"To get your free license of DxO OpticsPro 11, please enter your email address hereunder before November, 30th 2017."

I din't check it, thought, I went straight to their latest - PhotoLab, which is actually OpticsPro plus local adjustments...

Oct 30, 2017*permalink

I grabbed capture one 9 last year during the giveaway...and i can say i haven't touched it once. something about having the old version...just doesn't make one too excited.

Appreciate the freebie though.

Nov 1, 2017permalink

Ionlab

I grabbed DxO 9 Elite last year as well. It works well with my A6000 and also works on 32bit windows. Apart from panoramas and hdr merges i found that it worked really well. No need for the latest and greatest here....

Nov 1, 2017permalink

slimblock

I'm on OS 10.9.5, and I can go to 10.10 without losing my CS6 (and a lot of other software). I don't want to subscribe to the Cloud. I use LR5 now and have 300,000 photos in it, suffice it to say I'm very connected to my LR (but know I'll have to transition someday, just not now!) I was really shocked a few months ago when I bought a 5DMKIV and couldn't read the files...(although these files are openable in the oldest of Mac systems using the Canon software, so their restrictions aren't based on technology.) So I returned it, but now I'm back at looking at new cameras and weighing my options so a camera won't cost me a hidden $20,000 when I have to replace everything just to use the new files in my workflow. Long story to get to my question -- will LR6 upgrade on my OS 10.9.5 (or 10.10) with all the new ACR updates like the latest 10.? I wonder because I can't use the Adobe DNG converter because it requires OS 10.11.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

I'm on 10.10. I think you can safely go to el captian with cs6. Anything after...good luck. You should really get off 10.9 though. that's just too far back there.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

slimblock

Thanks!

Oct 29, 2017permalink

psharp

I'm on 10.12.6 and still using Photoshop CS6 & LR6 without any problems. Did a clean install 2 months ago where I replaced my HDD with a SSD so they will work 'straight out of the box' with Sierra.

Oct 30, 2017*permalink

psharp

Thats good...no, GREAT to know. Im going to go to el captan next week, and go step by step, OS to OS on my laptop, not the mission critical machine.

Nov 1, 2017permalink

Sirandar

First ..... there is no real issue of LR not being able to run on Win7 or 10 ..... Long before the time you can't run Lightroom you won't have the slightest desire to run Lightroom.

The only real issues are:

1) When your current camera dies Lightroon 6 worn't directly support it except though DNG. How much of an issue that is depends on whether the DNGs for your new camera are as malleable and pleasing as direct raw import.

2) Adobe is going to issue a final update ..... will this update make things better or worse = is begware and crippling going to happen

3) In a few years will I be able to reinstall CS6 on a new machine or even reinstall previous update free versions on my current PC. Lightroom requires activation and if Adobes servers don't respond appropriately to your license .... you can't use the product.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

Nov 1, 2017*permalink

OttoVonChriek

When the last crisis bit my biggest customer got rightsized (read production went elsewhere) and for a couple of years I was scratching around for jobs.

When something like that happens you have to plan for the worst, and that's when you start having to stop subscriptions. It's one thing to stop subscribing to a magazine, it's another not being able to edit your photos, and effectively lose access to all your previous edits.

Fortunately things are now back on track, but I really do avoid subscriptions on principle.

Companies want subscriptions to increase their financial stability. They achieve this at the cost of their customers....

Oct 29, 2017permalink

Just got a survey request from Adobe. They asked, would you recommend LR to a friend. I usually give them a "10" but this time I gave them "0" with the comment that it's because they are killing off LR standalone.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

Sutlore

how could you get that survey? I would to do that as well.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

A friend actually asked me about Lightroom this past week. For the first time ever, I did not recommend it.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

Don't know how I got the survey. It just popped up. I guess I must have clicked some button way back.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

I did exactly the same thing. I will never recommend, or buy another Adobe product

Oct 31, 2017permalink

MAC

outrages not to have individual option!

Oct 28, 2017permalink

VincentJ

Well, the good news today is that we have several other good options to choose from including the new DxO photolab, On1's photo raw, C1 among others. I've been working with C1 since the 3.7.x days and have just started playing with DxO recently, and they work exceedingly well on a Mac.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

Sjokotof

I'm thinking of following your example, also to help Adobe a bit, freeing them up from those pesky customers.

If enough of us can bring that sacrifice they'll finally have both hands free to deal with those ever-important investments. They don't align themselves you know!

Oct 28, 2017permalink

Yes several good options but too many chasing the customer base. Result will be some will crash and burn. Then you have wasted time learning a new app when it gets discontinued due to poor sales. Chances are C1 will go subscription only at some point as well. Anything that is successful you just have to hope that Adobe don't do a Macromedia and then close them down after purchase.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

VincentJ

@Stu 5: I am not so sure about that, but only time will tell, but to be safe I make sure there is no vendor locked DAM software for basic features like image tagging & rating, and so on.

I'm reasonably confident that there will always be a non-subscription option as there are always newer and smaller vendors that are hungry for our business. As a small example, affinity photo on Mac has improved by leaps and bounds with regards to quality, and it even does a good job with raw development. It could potentially fill a gap some time over the next few years if other vendors go insane with their rent-seeking behavior.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

broodrooster

Bye bye LR, hello Capture One,..been feeling this coming for a while and started investing more time into Capture One the past 6 months. They give loads of free webinars to help the transition. Thank you Capture One.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

How would you like to rent a toilet seat for montly fee? - This type of lifestyle- direction we going? Owe for everything but own nothing?

Oct 28, 2017*permalink

BuDWiZe

hello capture one. just need to learn how to use my color checker passport with it

Oct 28, 2017permalink

obsolescence

Let us know when you figure that out. I wanted to use it with DxO OP, but they don't support it.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

Heartbroken.

The good news is I'm loving Capture One so far!! And the new DXO Photlab looks great and just got a big price drop compared to the precious DXO Optics.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

brentbrent

LR6 satisfies me now in terms of what I can do with it, and I expect to be able to run it on Windows 10 for a long time (doesn't Microsoft say that 10 is the last Windows?). My only issue will be if I buy a future camera whose RAW files can't be opened by the no-longer-supported LR6. I'm not sure I'll want to hassle with the intermediate step of conversion to DNG. But aside from DNG conversion my options will be to switch to a non-Adobe product, or not buy any new camera after this year (sorry, camera manufacturers, this could bite your butt too ;-) ). I do not plan on going to Adobe's subscription model.

Even if Adobe did not do any other updates to LR6, I'd be willing to pay some amount for future camera model updates. For example, if they were issued every six months and cost $25 for a particular update that covers the new cameras introduced in the previous six months.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

turretless

"For example, if they were issued every six months and cost $25 for a particular update that covers the new cameras introduced in the previous six months."
Won't happen. It would've shown too much concern for customers' interests with too small profit margin.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

brentbrent

Sadly, I'm sure you are right. They said they would continue the standalone version indefinitely, and now they want to try to force everyone on it to migrate to CC. I'm just saying, though, that there would be a middle ground between what they are now doing and what others might want, that they go to the effort of producing LR7, LR8, etc., with all the latest features of LR CC. And the other point is that I wouldn't expect them to do even just the camera updates for free.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Remember when camera updates were separate from the full app updates...ah, those were the days.

Nov 1, 2017permalink

KW Phua

Photo at mac update RAW conversion on time. Hopefully other apps add-on can help for the more advance editing. Mac will soon improve on the file/photo management. Please help me to same money and time.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Lightroom 6 was released in April of 2015, so it's had about 2.5 years of updates. In the computing industry, 2.5 years (or really 2 years) is a long time. I personally don't quite understand the complaining that Adobe is ending updates for LR6. CaptureOne I'm sure as well as others, stop updating products after a few years, and that makes sense, because if you buy new gear or want new features, you have to pay up. (This is separate from the argument of subscription vs. perpetual licensing.)

The way I see this argument of subscription vs. perpetual is that it's a waste of time. Eventually your favorite editor will go subscription, and you move to the next, and the cycle repeats. It's only a matter of time before PhaseOne goes full subscription only. Why do you think they offered it? They are doing the same thing Adobe did years ago. It might be a few more years before PhaseOne / C1 changes,but its coming, and then people jump ship again and essentially "start over."

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Travis Butler

Then I will keep jumping ship. Because I will not support subscription software unless there is no alternative.

2 years is a good support period for free updates, and I would happily have paid for Lightroom 7 as a stand-alone product. But I will not go CC.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

" I would happily have paid for Lightroom 7 as a stand-alone product. But I will not go CC."

Precisely. It's not about the money saved or lost, it's about buying software, vs renting software. Loosing control and predictability of the tools I use to make my images.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

It's not so much that customers are "jumping ship" and starting over. It's that software makers (like Adobe) are sinking ships that don't need to be sunk. They could offer paid updates, as they've done in the past, and make plenty of money. But they're choosing to go the greedy route of terminating our investments in standalone products in favor of a constant rental revenue. I think it's perfectly valid for customers to say "shove it" to such tactics and go elsewhere.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

I've been comparing NIkon NX-D, LR6.13, Capture One and DXO Photolab....

The thing that strikes me most is they all make amazing images from my D500/D850. After a decade of using LR and not really even looking at anything else, I now see how silly that was. Now I'm wishing I switched to Capture One years ago.

Thanks Adobe for forcing the issue! ;P

Oct 28, 2017permalink

You always "rent" software. Almost all license agreements, both the perpetual license and CC license from Adobe, probably have a clause like "the developer licesense you to use this softwrae" You don't actually ever OWN it. The developer can revoke the license and thus, continued use would be illegal.

Oct 30, 2017permalink

That's a specious argument. The perpetual license was very like ownership. The CC license obviously isn't. The point of licensing was so that they could protect the code — buyers could not resell it. When did Adobe or any major software maker ever "revoke" a perpetual license and for what reason?

Oct 30, 2017permalink

http://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html

I am not saying they have, but they reserve the right to, and you have little you can do should they chose to end the license agreement. That's all I'm getting at... for those who think they buy the license and can use it indefinitely... that may or may not be true. It also gives the developer the option to send "kill" updates or updates that make it harder to continue to use a program that is considered obsolete.

Read the terms and agreements. It states in the document that adobe can terminate even perpetual licenses. Also note how towards the top they emphasize that software is licensed, not sold. This is honestly where people get confused. You are buying a license to use the software... a license that Adobe, if it wanted to, could cancel or terminate and there is not much you can do about it. You can try to file a lawsuit, but I'm not sure how that would play out given the terms of the agreement you agreed to when you installed it.

Oct 30, 2017*permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Depends on where in the world you live. First Sale Doctrine has been gutted in the US, this is true. (See Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc.), but for instance, in the EU, you do retain the rights, ownership as it were, to the software you buy. Not sure how that works in Canada where I'm now living. Good question actually.

Oct 30, 2017permalink

https://www.publicknowledge.org/news-blog/blogs/eu-court-when-you-buy-software-you-own-it

This I think summarizes what you're trying to say for the EU at least, but it sounds more like selling a "used" copy. The developer still retains the rights to the software, as mentioned in this article (which I need to do more research on). Reselling used software is one thing ,but Adobe, in this case, would still "own" the software (have copyright ownership of it). They just can't control what the person (the consumer) does with it, or they can't stop the consumer from re-selling it as a used copy (according to the EU at least).

However, I would think that the buyer buying the "second hand" software would still have to agree to the developer's EULA anyway when they install it. They may "own it" in terms of being able to sell it to someone else, but I think they still fall under the EULA when they use it, which is what this discussion was really about.

Oct 30, 2017*permalink

Also, For the sake of the EULA and licensing, I don't think it matters if you're the 2nd or 22nd owner, you'd probably still have to agree to the EULA which binds you to use of the software. At least in the EU (as I read it), you still "own it" but not in the way that people think ownership works with other things, like cars or furniture. You own it to the point where you can re-sell it to someone else (under specific guidelines) but I think it's still licensed used.

Oct 30, 2017*permalink

sirhawkeye

Im not sure what your point actually is. Sharing the actual legal terms has no bearing on the actual, current conversation.

Perpetual vs forever paying, 'utility bill' software.

It's as simple as that. One sucks, and one doesn't. See, I saved you some keyboard stroke energy....you're welcome :)

Nov 1, 2017permalink

The comments I made stem back to a comment made early on about buying versus renting software. That's where the whole "licensed, not sold" thing started. dylanear made a comment about buying vs renting.

Nov 1, 2017permalink

locke_fc

Yes, well, thanks for that last update, and then **** you, Adobe.
Here's where we part ways.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

kbdkbd

I am suspicius of any "last update" from Adobe... you never know what time bomb code could exist in it, or nagging to subscribe. I'm stopping at 6.12.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

NickyB66

Duplication of Adobe staff looking after and developing the same product, I'm guessing its about Adobe saving money with an eye for users to subscribe to there multiple TB cloud storage - they will make loads.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

obsolescence

The only "time bomb" I encountered, upon initial installation, was the automatic installation also of a trial version of Lightroom Mobile, which later ended and brought an alert to buy that made me wonder if LR would be disabled -- but I just said no thanks, and from then on there's only a promo text at the top suggesting to "Get started with LR Mobile."

Oct 29, 2017*permalink

kbdkbd

That was present in 6.x for a long time, and not really a bomb. I'm talking about the ones that may be present in any "final" updates that may tick away for a year or two or phone home waiting for a trigger that disables ability to continue to use the standalone version, or will nag the crap out of you to subscribe. It may already be in 6.12 I don't know. But I'm stopping at 6.12 it works good enough for me. Only time will tell though. Adobe has proven they can't be trusted... so better safe than sorry. In the meantime I'll keep an eye open for something else and probably start the whole non sub to forced sub with the new one all over again.

Oct 29, 2017*permalink

The main reason I'll keep using Lightroom is for when I want to use a ColorChecker, if DXO or C1 (or Silkypix) supported that I'd be much less interested. (Although some of the modifier keys you can hold down when making adjustments, to see what will be affected, are also cool.)

Oct 27, 2017permalink

alfredsspekis

When one considers the cost and upgrades from the first lightroom it was never a cheap excercise

Oct 27, 2017permalink

graybalanced

LR was actually a cheap exercise, in photography terms.

When Lightroom 1 came out, it competed with Apple Aperture. (Some thought Lightroom copied Aperture's design.) But Lightroom didn't copy the price: Aperture was $499. Lightroom came in at $299 and forced Apple to lower their price.

I think the Lightroom upgrades were $79. There were only 5 of those upgrades in the history of LR, from versions 2 through 6. Total cost of buying Lightroom 1 through 6 was $694, then. For 10 years...that's cheap! Remember when a single new copy of Photoshop was $699?

$694...that's less than any of the camera bodies I bought, and those usually don't stay in service for 10 years. I have bought multiple lenses that cost more than that.

Some unhappy LR users are going to MacPhun. I get emails from them all the time asking to upgrade to this year's version for $99. That's more than LR.

But maybe that's why so many are unhappy. Standalone LR used to be the cheap way to go, and we're losing it.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

bigfatron

Agreed. Partly how I ended up on LR was because Capture One dropped their Express product and the cost at the time to go to full Capture One was too much (comfortably north of £200 versus about £100 to buy LR 4 and about £70 a time for major version upgrades).

Oct 28, 2017permalink

Eloise

"It might not take too many operating system upgrades before unsupported LR6 breaks entirely."
I'm curious ... whats the earliest version of LR which works on Windows 10? That might give some indication as to how long LR6 might work for. Of course if Windows moves to working on ARM processors or something radical like that then likely LR6 will stop working ... but until then?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Mike Engles

The latest update on offer is 6.13, so what is this final 6.13 update coming later in the year?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

ssepan1

I think they're talking about a planned 6.14.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

wasTF

I wonder if that update will include the improvements on speed ?
We sufferd probably a decade now with a slow program... will this be the ultimate version ?

Even if Windows 12 will break it (i doubt it!), it is still at least 5 years in the future...

Enough time to find an alternative..

Oct 27, 2017permalink

badi

No, it only adds support for new cameras (and probably some bug fixes).
They said clearly that the speed improvements are part of the major changes they made for CC (classic and new).

Oct 27, 2017permalink

wasTF

Its such a slap in the face.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

ozphoto663

The least they could do is apply the speed fix to LR6 before they bury it, that would be the right thing to do! Show some goodwill Adobe!

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

badi

According to some users here, the LR CC Classic does not show significant (or at all) speed improvements over the older version. I would never find for myself, i guess. :)

Oct 27, 2017permalink

davids8560

Can somebody explain everything to me real quick?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Here you go...
Oct 18: "We're making two apps! BTW the new one will cost a ton."

Oct 23: "We're not going to abandon Lightroom Classic!"

Oct 25: "We're going to abandon Lightroom Classic!"

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

BaldCol

Where was the Oct 25: "We're going to abandon Lightroom Classic!" anouncement?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Causio

> Oct 23: "We're not going to abandon Lightroom Classic!"
> Oct 25: "We're going to abandon Lightroom Classic!"

Lightroom 6 is not Lightroom Classic...

Oct 27, 2017permalink

roderickma2000

I am learning C1. Once done, no coming back!
Gonna miss Julieanne Kost (not LR nor Adobe) ... life must go on!

:o)

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Going from LR to C1 feel sometimes left handed. It works differently to LR and needs adapting to. Nut I already feel that the results are very different than that op LR and to my eyes superior... I am now migrating my LR library to C1. Once I have done that, I can safely delete LR and never think about it again...!

Oct 27, 2017permalink

davids8560

Am I gonna have to re-assign custom keywords to 199,748 photos?

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Eloise

What are you going to do when C1 goes subscription?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

So what happens when Capture 1 is subscription only, you then will switch to another app and wast even more hours learning that?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

roderickma2000

David ... good start and take your time ...

Eloise and Stu ... I think it's a bit hard for C1 to go subscription because of the high price. It is mainly due to the high price and programme complexity that ppl are not willing to use it. Without enough supporters, it's hard to go subscription.

C1 usually updates every year (updating fee required) and switches to a major revision once every 2 years (no updating but to buy a new version). Above all, there is always a chance for the software to go subscription. Just no way to avoid / prevent that.

Another solution is to keep using the LR6 with Adobe's DNG converter. Beware that Adobe will not update LR6 after 2017 i.e. no more new functions and support.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

FYI. They already have a subscription OPTION.
But I don't think they would go subscription ONLY.

It has become their main selling point! Although they got me interested even before Adobe's meltdown. Honestly once you get used to it i find that i have more (precise) control over my images. Not the library though, it shucks.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Eloise and Stu - there's another option, it's called "you don't have to use the very latest version of your software".

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Yea, good luck with that.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

@M Jesper. My main gripe with C1 is zooming. I sometimes just want to zoom 100% and then go back to the full image. IS there a simple way of doing that (besides the loupe view (which IMHO is a bit limited...?)

Oct 27, 2017permalink

@Davids8560 you can import LR libraries and it will respect star rating and keywords (even the keyword hierarchy.)

Oct 27, 2017permalink

@Ergo607 C1 has a little zoom bar at top right. The middle position is 100%. The left position is "Fit".

Oct 28, 2017permalink

@yake thank you. One of my biggest gripes solved...

Oct 29, 2017permalink

turretless

Bye, bye, Adobe. It was a bumpy ride, f you very much.
I didn't see any reason for updating my LR 5.7 to LR 6 or beyond while using 5.7-compatible camera. And now you won't ever get a single penny from me.

I tried DxO PL + FilmPack, liked the combination a lot and bought the set for reduced price. So no Adobe BS anymore. Bye, bye, Adobe. Hope never deal with you in the future.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Jefftan

"It might not take too many operating system upgrades before unsupported LR6 breaks entirely."

is there a compatibility mode in Windows?
Question is I am using A6500 RAW with Capture One

The level of detail I get with Capture One is stunning
Is Lightroom really better? At least in term of giving as much detail

I don't know, not even try Lightroom but I don't think so.
Capture One extract the most detail among all RAW converters in my understading

Oct 27, 2017permalink

For now, there is a compatibility mode in Windows. However, Microsoft may phase that out within the next one or two releases of Windows (at least, compatibility support/functionality for older OSes, such as Vista and probably Windows 7, which Vista supported ended already so I'd expect they won't do compatability support either in future OSes, and Windows 7's is due to expire in 2020), which is probably when the next major Windows version will be released.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Jefftan

Can u just install old windows version (the disc that come with computer pruchase) even on new computer

and so can continue to use old software?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

If It's an OEM restore disc, no you can't. You can only re-install the OS on the computer the disc came with (or one that is similar or otherwise included in the list of computers the recovery CD/DVD works with). For example, I have an old HP XW4600 workstation with Windows 7. I can use the restore CD on any HP XW workstation that is an xw4200, 4400, or 4600, or a z200 workstation, but not other HP models, or other computers (non-HP). Hopefully that helps and answers your question.

In your case, you might be better off restoring the old computer with the CD that came with it, and upgrade it to a point where you could use an older version of LR and/or PS. Earlier versions of the software had lower system requirements than the current version obviously.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

cosinaphile

get the most powerful gaming laptop you can ... used ...

pump it full of ram

put 4 gigs of nice samsung ssd love i n there {$1500.00] a nice cherry keyboard a good
mouse ....make sure the puppy is running win 7 send the image out to a nice monitor with good calibration

your good to go

Oct 27, 2017permalink

To y eyes results of C1pro are superior to that of LR...

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Windows has always been excellent for backwards compatibility, but not 100%. You can still run 32-bit Windows 98se programs with a good degree of success. So in reality LR6 will probably be okay for the duration, but there is always a chance that some feature it relies on will get broken (as it's a very complicated program).
The very cool thing about Windows is not so much the compatibility mode that allows it to emulate older OSes, but WinSxS which allows programs to have whatever version of a library it wants. Unlike other OSes where you are stuck with the library it comes with, in Windows if 6 programs want 6 different versions of the C library they can all have the exact one they want and all run at the same time.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Then don't update, for Christ's sake, why do you people have such an urge to use the very latest-est-est-est-est-est versions?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

ASRBriggs

I updated to "Lightroom Classic" and I am blown away by how slow it is.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

haiiyaa

it’s like it’s getting slower with every update

Oct 27, 2017permalink

They honestly need to re-write it from the ground up but that will take some time. Hopefully Adobe has used some of their revenues to look into such a project (which might take them a few years to rewrite from scratch or at least from the foundation up).
I really think it's the catalog that slows it down, and if they could start utilizing the graphics card more, that might speed some things up, especially previews and other intensive tasks (like photo merging, etc).

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

LRCCC is 1.) faster than ever before, and 2.) indeed being re-written from the ground up.

If it's getting slower, it's because your computer can't handle it. Lightroom has always been a resource-gobbling app, and it always will be. But at least now it has something to show for that resource hogging.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

ASRBriggs

You're really not comprehending Matthew Saville. I have done a straight upgrade from LR to LR Classic and the performance has significantly reduced. Either you are an Adobe shill, you have been mislead, or LR is playing nicer with your system setup.
Also my i7, 32GB of RAM, GTX1080 and Samsung M.2 SSD might disagree with your assessment of my PC.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

cosinaphile

oh yes .......blame the computer when it runs bloated inefficient code

Oct 27, 2017permalink

The Squire

@matthew LR is not a resource hog its just badly written. I have a fairly decent Intel i7 desktop quad core, 16GB RAM and everything on SSD. It's still slow. I need to go make a cup of tea if I accidentally scroll through a video file in the library.

You can watch the resource utilization - It doesnt thrash any of the resources, not CPU, RAM or I/O, which means it's not using the resources available to it, which means it's badly written. Single threaded or locking resources, I dont know, but it just needs a re-work (see LRCC, hopefully).

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Well I have upgraded to Lightroom Classic and it is massively faster. The same experience for other people I know. It is pointless moaning about that the fact it is slow on your computer on here because Adobe do not come onto they website. Put a post onto Adobes website because you need to feed back to them your problem and what computer you are running and OS.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

quiquae

@ASRBriggs I've seen multiple reports claiming that LR Classic CC is significantly faster than LR CC. However, LR CC has been getting slower and slower lately, so it may well be that the sped-up Classic is still not as good as LR6 was. I'm still in the process of downloading my copy, so I can't speak from experience either way.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

ASRBriggs

Check the Adobe forums. I am not the only one suffering from the "upgrade". This only highlights that it works well on some configurations and not on others. Ie, poor coding.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

@ASRBriggs,

What @quiquae said.

LR CC used to barely use my RAM, but gobble up my CPU when doing any "heavy lifting". Now, LR CCC barely touches my CPU, but gobbles up my RAM. And since I only have 8GB, it's only noticeably faster for a short while, then it bogs down when I try to do stuff like merge a 20-image panorama, or export 200+ files.

But, across the board, I'm hearing nothing but good reports from folks who have more ram and better CPUs than me. Yours is literally the first of dozens of reports I've heard that are saying it is flat-out slower. Sorry that your system isn't playing nice.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

It seems, in my opinion, that LR CCC tops out at around 3 or 4GB of RAM usage (at least on my system) but taxes the CPU on both of my systems. I downsized my catalog (went through and culled photos & removed about half thus decreasing my catalog size by almost half. I also removed smart previews for the time being (need to rebuild them). But regardless, it does seem to hog memory. If you're not running a computer with 4 cores or more, you will notice slow-downs. I'd recommend 12-16GB of RAM and a quad core at least, for doing most tasks in LR. You can work with less, but it's much slower.

On my Core i5 dual core Dell laptop with 12GB of RAM, I cannot multi-task when LR CCC is open (I can't listen to music while photo editing) but on my desktop (quad core with 16GB of RAM) multi-tasking isn't an issue (listening to music + photo editing). Smart Prevews will also slow down any computer because of how they work and the additional load they put on the CPU/memory.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

haiiyaa

@matthew saville

I'm running on a 8 core 16 thread cpu @ 4ghz, 16gb 3200mhz memory, 512gb crucial SSD, rx 480 gb graphic card and lightroom is incredible slow.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

I am running a Mac Mini 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7, 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3, and standard hard drive. Huge increase in speed.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

@Stu 5,

...even for extended "heavy lifting"? The only spec on your machine that beats mine is the RAM, so I'll have to try updating my RAM. 16 GB is down to ~$100 these days. No excuse for me now!

It *is* a mid-2012 Macbook Pro with "only" El Capitan, though.

Oct 29, 2017permalink

Salah

I don’t trust Adobe at all. They may release an update that will f* Lightroom 6 and make it unstable.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

The same could probably also be said for many companies, like Google, who will be "upgrading" Google drive and Google Photos users to their new software, whether they like it or not (obviously, not using Google is an option/solution to that problem at least).

Oct 27, 2017permalink

badi

The subscription only thing, and now forcing LR to this model as well, which they promised it will always keep a licence based model, kind of makes me agreeing with you. :) ....

But i think there is no need to become paranoid. Doing such a thing deliberately will be pretty bad for them, for the image, but also might end up with trials, and so on.... and they don't need to. With the next camera update (assuming a 2018+ model) LR6 will just not be an option. I am really interested to see how carefully they choose the latest cameras to support (for example if the A7RIII will make it)

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

raztec

Adobe, just be gone already!
As far as I'm concerned, you're history.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Team Yeti

Womp-womp...

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Barty L

Tried installing via the 'Adobe Application Manager', which updated itself to become a portal to 'Adobe Creative Cloud'. When I clicked on 'Installed Apps' the only options visible were 'Classic CC' and 'CC (2015)', neither of which I own (much less want to "upgrade" to).

So I tried again from within Lightroom (V6.12) itself, using the 'Check for updates' option under the Help menu. Guess what? Exactly the same window with exactly the same undesired result happens.

Turns out it's possible to download the V6.13 update 'manually' which I've done using a link provided by a poster on another site. The update horror stories have already begun though (uninstalls your standalone version if you're not careful), so I'm going to leave it another week before running the update, just to see what other 'surprises' may be in store.

Counldn't resist the opportunity for one last kick in the teeth eh Adobe?

Oct 26, 2017permalink

That's appalling. What a rotten company.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Paul Auclair

Scary...I got the 'Adobe App manager' v6.13 pop up too.
thought WTH...why not?
I started the download then cruised over to DPR to kill some time... I read your thread and thought oh oh!!!..what's going to happen when I click "Finish"?
nothing bad happened to me though...LR is now 6.13...no issues that I am aware of.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

They don't suddenly enable in-program updates for everybody but do it gradually so their servers can cope. It'll be along. I just checked for updates in LR and it's there for me.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

That's true, what happened to good old-style EXE installers?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Robert_Sc

I managed to get rid of Creative Cloud by running the AdobeCreativeCloudCleanerTool.exe file from the Adobe website. I then installed the Adobe Application Manager. Now, when I go to Help -> Updates... in LR I get the Application Manager and can upgrade to the latest non-CC LR version.

I have no use for cloud storage - the Internet speeds in Australia are so slow it is not practical to use it.

Nov 20, 2017permalink

alfredsspekis

Things just move on

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Still using LR5 and CS6 on the latest version of Windows. I don't think LR6 will just 'break entirely' any time soon.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

I use CS6 with ACR 9.1 inside of it, and Neat Image plugin for denoise and sharpen. Tried everything else, but it felt too slow and bulky for my taste. PS and ACR never lagged one single bit.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Barleyman

I agree. I think that was an overly negative statement in the article. I still use Picasa on my Win 10 environment and it works great, syncs with Google Photos. I assume std LR 6 will be usable a long time, And with the DNG Converter, maybe into perpetuity.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Tazz93

I'm still using CS3 with LR6, not perfect, but very usable with minimal crashes... well minimal crashes in CS3. LR6 is a flawed, and crashes way more than I'd like. Flawed bit of of functional software.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

FYI, i haven't had LR5 crash even once, at least not that i remember. And CS6 only crashes when i'm out of memory and pushing it. :-)

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Androole

Yeah, I use Photoshop CS4 with Lightroom 6 on Windows 10. No issues for me, nor do I anticipate any for the foreseeable future.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

I doubt they will cut the cord on LR6 perpetual users any time soon, or at least for the next 2-3 years. I mean, they haven't shutdown LR5 users yet (yes, LR5 was released before the subscription model) but Adobe knows that many people bought the standalone perpetual license who don't want the subscription. Now, given time, they probably will make it impossible to use LR6, but that is still at least a few years away. LR6 users probably won't see anymore updates obviously, after this year-end update, though.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Mike Engles

Hello
It might not be the OS that breaks Lightroom, but the Adobe servers that underpin the licencing and codes

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Androole

If they break faith in such a transparent - and likely illegal - way, I don't see many people fretting too much about simply pirating the software they already own and bought.

To be clear, you're talking about an update that would break the standalone version of LR6?

Oct 27, 2017permalink

In many license agreements, the developer can "revoke" the license, and thus stop the legal use by the consumer at any time for any reason. Your purchase is really only a license to use the software. You don't own it, so Adobe can break it any time they want an there's little you can do, other than jump to another program. You could buy a program, and Adobe could cut the cord 30 days later if they wanted to, and there's not much you can do about it. But I doubt Adobe will be killing LR6 perpetual users' access any time soon. I mean, CS2 had about a 5 year run before they cut the cord on that, and you can still install some older versions of LR (such as LR5).

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Androole

Like I said, if true, Adobe would be essentially giving people moral vindication for software piracy.

And you can still run Photoshop CS2 today. Nothing stops you.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

rubank

As a legit owner of LR 6, I tried to update. No go.
It turns out that since I installed a trial version of PS CC (I have CS 6 since earlier) Creative Cloud app takes command of the computer: after uninstalling PS CC the Cloud app won´t uninstall, claiming I still have CC apps installed! Seems LR 6 have turned into LR CC without my asking for it.
So, uninstalling LR CC within the Cloud app takes away LR6, and then CC-app still refuses to unisnstall!
Had to manually delete all keyes in the win 7 register and search and delete all entries in the file system.

Now I can´t find the LR6 install on Adobe´s site!

Adobe CC is pure evil!

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Greymelbourne

I had the same issue when I tried to reinstall after buying a new computer. Very frustrating.
I'm tempted to call it a day now with Adobe and just move on to other products but it annoys me that I have a legitimately purchased product that I have to jump through hoops to use.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Well, one can get the installer on "some other" locations on the Internet, but still use a legit key while installing it ;)

Oct 26, 2017permalink

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-downloads.html

I had to uninstalled all reference to CC to get it to work. Yes, finding a LR6 download site is really difficult. Adobe are being real dicks.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Tazz93

That happened to me after my first update, I scoured their Support site and found a fix and it hasn't happened again since that even through subsequent updates. I'm not sure if I tried the CC trial, but that might have been the catalyst.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

caesarb

LR6 downloads are here:

Oct 26, 2017permalink

That just stinks.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

There is a cleanup tool you have to run to fix this issue. I had the same problem when I was trying out CC while I still had a CS6 license. You'll need to search Google or Adobe's site for it, but it worked for me. Basically, the uninstaller for CC trials don't fully remove the proper registry keys (at least in Windows) and therefore the installer still thinks trial CC apps are installed.

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

broodrooster

So I have a standalone version of LR6. I can uninstall the creative cloud and it would still work ok? When I open Finder on the Mac, I see al folder called ´Creative Cloud files´, it is empty. But it does signal me that some creative cloud software is installed which I do not want.

Can I remove Creative Cloud without ruining my LR6.12 install? I just downloaded the creative cloud uninstall here: https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/help/uninstall-creative-cloud-desktop-app.html

When I run it, it says:,,The Creative Cloud applications installed on your computer require Creative Cloud for desktop to function properly. Do you still want to go ahead with the uninstallation process?"

Now I am confused..

Oct 28, 2017*permalink

Tazz93

From memory, I took an update that was really LR CC. After it was done I noticed different features like the dehaze option they held out from LR6. When I noticed that, I realized CC had been installed so I removed LR CC and LR6 stayed on the PC.

Oct 28, 2017permalink

I uninstalled and deleted anything that mentioned CC. Can't remember if I had to reinstall LR6 but it's working great now. If they offered a LR7, I'd probably buy it but CC, no way!

Oct 28, 2017*permalink

alcaher

a good alternative, Dxo Pro editor software.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

I'm sure (and hope) that Dxo and CaotureOne are working hard at a app to translate a LR catalogue to their own. When they have it, there will be an avalanche to them.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Paul Auclair

BobT3218..."app to translate a LR catalogue to their own"
I'm almost positive ON1 RAW does just that.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

mrkalntms

Capture One will import your Lightroom catalog and preserve keywords and basic adjustments such as white balance, exposure, and cropping (and a few others), but its DAM is slow and buggy with limited functionality. Also, Capture One has incomplete DNG support, though it works pretty well most of the time.

DXO doesn't have a DAM per se, more a file browser, but it does have some DAM functionality such as ratings and virtual copies via the clever use of sidecars and a simple database. Beautiful image quality, though, and fantastic film simulations and probably the most convincing grain simulations if you're into that.

DXO doesn't import your adjustments, unfortunately.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Strictly DXO Optics Pro is now dead and it's DXO Photolab... but basically the same thing just with local adjustments (an area they were behind in) added using Nik's technology.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

If it doesn't import adjustments, then theres no way im migrating anything When i get the app, ill only add new images to its catalog.

No way im tossing years of edits because adobe wants to be my gas bills new best friend.

F that, F adobe, and F LRCC. F it all.

Nov 1, 2017permalink

Pritzl

"Not everybody is happy about this state of affairs": understatement of the year. :)

Oct 26, 2017permalink

SHood

There seems to be some confusion in these comments. Version 6.13 is not the last update. There is still one more update coming at the end of this year.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

FBoneOne

Just gave in to Macphun Luminar. There are some powerful tools in there and the preview of their file managing system looks excellent, which would make it a complete replacement to LR with a bunch of additional features. I am not stopping using LR but over the next 12 months I will learn Luminar and see if it is indeed the expected replacement it looks like it could be. For $69 it seems like a cheap insurance policy for when I really need to transition (i.e. LR6 stops working with one of Apple's OS updates... which will happen sooner or later).

Oct 26, 2017permalink

I'm waiting for Luminar for Windows to move past the beta stage and become a fully-fledge product you can buy (still in beta as of this writing, but I'm impressed). However, I don't know if I'd jump ship to Luminar quite yet. I'd probably use it more as an additional (optional) step in my workflow for some images (I like some of the presets they have).

Oct 27, 2017permalink

David Dahlstrom

It occurred to me that if I stick with LR6, I can take as long as I like to transition over to another product. If, on the other hand, I were to upgrade to LR CC now and then decide to migrate to another product later, I would need to make continual payments to Adobe for as long as it takes me to migrate (which could be quite a while since I will likely want to run both products in parallel for some time). This alone is reason for me to bite the bullet and migrate now, while LR6 is still current and still has a license that is not revokable. Capture One, here I come.

Oct 26, 2017*permalink

Eloise

Just to note that if you subscribe to a CC plan, you are committing to a 12 month subscription; and automatically renewed 12 months on each anniversary.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Travis Butler

I'd also note that once you make the decision that you *will* transition, any work you do in LR is work that you can't be sure will transfer over to a new product. So from my own POV, I want to migrate as soon as possible, to minimize the amount of work that could be lost.

(In this case, the 'work' is my nondestructive edits; while I can export my last-edited version from LR, the processing work I used to make it is only partially transferred to any of the replacements I've tried so far. CaptureOne and On1 Raw will both import some edits but not most, so anything I transition over will be losing a fair amount.)

Oct 28, 2017permalink

HDomDP

I still don't understand how the LR Classic CC works then, it install on your desktop just like LR 6 but you still have to pay a subscription to be able to use it ?? Or like the LR CC, you are paying the subscription partly for online storage ??

Oct 26, 2017*permalink

Spectro

Classic is the old CC which works like this stand alone but you pay the yearly subscription fee. You get udates on features which they hold out on the standalone. The new CC is cloud base, save file to the cloud.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

The predictable result of naming confusion.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Barty L

'Classic CC' installs on your desktop just like LR6, but you have to pay a subscription to use it. Unlike LR6, if you don't continue to pay your subscription, the Develop module (about 90% of the point of LR for most of us) will stop working. Then you will have a pretty slideshow app.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

I just updated to the "last one", version 6.13 from 6.12, but the update was unsuccessful and now I can't open the older rev. either. :/

Oct 26, 2017*permalink

After re-install Lr the latest V. 6.13 update succeeded too! :)

Oct 26, 2017permalink

Barty L

I'm glad you got it sorted, but you should not have to 'jump through hoops' for a simple upgrade. I'm starting to form the view that Adobe has done us a favour by killing off their standalone apps - doing so has provided motivation to move out of the Adobe camp altogether.

Oct 27, 2017permalink

Yeah! Move to "DXO PhotoLab" is for me!

Oct 27, 2017*permalink

Archer66

There is also an update to LR Classic.

Oct 26, 2017*permalink

Dan_168

OK, I will stop buying new camera after I receive my 850 and A7RIII then, wait, since the A7R III just announced will that " last update" include that camera? not a bad idea from Adobe side, helps me to save a lot of money, I will just use what I have until they breaks, LOL.

Oct 26, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

In older version, one could simply take the new profile files and move them to a special folder and LR would read them. Is this not the case anymore? If it is the case, then LR6 will get 'support' for many years to come... albeit not officially.

Oct 26, 2017permalink