Nikon patents two full-frame mirrorless lenses: 52mm F0.9 and 36mm F1.2

10 years from now maybe
we're still waiting for global shutter

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

AbrasiveReducer

That's a beautiful camera.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

AndroC

A gorgeous Nikon F2 from between 1971 to 1980 or so. Mine from 1972 still going strong! Wonder of they will issue the lenses in F Mount. :-)

Sep 10, 2017permalink

Digimat

They look like Cine lenses, however having such an extreme thin DOF is not all that practical to use in moviemaking. Strange design. Guess they are just patents, nothing that will be made for real world use. And if, then definitely not for a consumer type camera. because they would be either crap or expensive as a car.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

soundknight21

Yeah, probably just hype.
Nikon really missed the mirrorless boat :(

I liked the DL series of fixed lens cameras they canned. :(

Sep 9, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

I'll agree with Digimat, those look more like Cine lenses than anything else,
it'll be nice too see a mirrorless coming out of Nikon ASAP, that 1" project unfortunately failed BUT those sensors are great for the future of compact cameras

Sep 9, 2017permalink

JoaoPedroAB

Even liking and following most of technical discussions, I have a question. Maybe someone can help: why seems to be impossible using regular lenses (Nikons, Canons EF) with mirroless cameras directly? And, for instance, we would have the next Nikon D6 with dozens os lenses already in the market? Thanks in advance.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Gray Harman

It's not impossible at all. It would simply be a very poor design choice. That would eliminate Nikon's ability to offer truly small-bodied cameras in the same lens mount. Look at Fuji and Olympus. They both sell larger, more ergonomic "pro" size models, and then they have their compact models; all using the same mount. If Nikon went with standard F mount lenses, all the cameras in their expected mirrorless line would be needlessly larger.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Plasternick

There is no real reason Nikon or Canon couldn't make a mirrorless camera that uses the existing lenses mount and in fact I really want them to do so.

Of course using the existing mount will mean you wouldn't be able to reduce the size of the camera in the way Sony and Fuji and the like have been able to do so. This is a problem for some, but I don't really mind my camera being "big".

Sep 8, 2017permalink

photonius

Well, the point about mirrorless cameras is that without the mirror box, you can make the camera less deep. Instead of a mount flange distance of 46.5mm you could have, for example, 18mm. You can fill this extra space with an 20mm adapter, which is essentially a hollow tube. This is, for example, how all the Canon lenses can be used on the mirrorless Canon EOS-M system. However, people don't seem to like such adapters that much, rather prefer lenses that mount directly. Lenses that mount directly, can then also be made smaller, mostly in the UWA and WA range, because of the shorter mount distance.
You could of course design a camera that keeps the original flange distance 46.5 mm mount. The body would be deeper for no reason, and you could not design the smaller UWA/WA lenses.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

JoaoPedroAB

Thanks for your answers. BUT ... suppose, for instance, that Nikon goes to Nikon D6. IF there is no technical difficulty, they would have a choice: use mirror or mirroless technique. I guess that the latter is much better for several reasons (I use Olympus e-M1 and E-M5 ii). Professionals like large cameras, as you know. Then no problems on using the current lenses and using mirroless approach, they would get ride of the complicated mirror and would be able to increase (and much) the fps. On the other side, what about a Canon Rebel mirrorless using the EF-s lenses (instead of the other M-bayonet)?

Sep 8, 2017permalink

falconeyes

@JoaoPedroAB
You are right, current lenses should work on mirrorless.
But both designs presented here are IMPOSSIBLE with the F mount, so both lenses would add to the artistic arsenal of a photographer.

Moreover, specific designs may (or may not) be faster to auto-focus (smaller focus lens group) and/or smaller in size than their F-mount counterparts.

Sep 8, 2017*permalink

visualenvy

This is my understanding.
I have an adapter that mounts my Nikon F mount lenses to my E mount A6000 and it is the exact width required to simulate the distance from the rear lens element to the sensor that you would find in a DSLR.
That tells me that in order to mount existing F lenses to a new Nikon mirrorless body you would need to maintain that same distance by having a big empty space in front of the sensor. While I personally don't see mirrorless as a technology to make cameras smaller (I hate small cameras except for travel) that is just a fact of the marketing so in order to make the body slimmer you will need new lenses that are designed for the shorter distance.
With that being said, I have noticed on the larger Sony FE lenses that the rear mount is extended more than on a DSLR lens which I believe accommodates for the slimmer body.
That's my unscientific opinion for whatever it is worth :)

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Gray Harman

"... suppose, for instance, that Nikon goes to Nikon D6. IF there is no technical difficulty, they would have a choice: use mirror or mirroless technique. I guess that the latter is much better for several reasons (I use Olympus e-M1 and E-M5 ii). Professionals like large cameras, as you know. Then no problems on using the current lenses and using mirroless approach, they would get ride of the complicated mirror and would be able to increase (and much) the fps."

Nikon will likely never "need" to go to a mirrorless flagship (like your hypothetical mirrorless D6) because the lenses typically used on flagship cameras tend to be so large that the camera ergonomically needs to be large enough to accommodate a mirror box. And low mass mirror designs, with rapid actuators, will likely keep the FPS "fast enough." Plus, traditionalists love their optical viewfinders. However, the flagship scenario is a special case. Mirrorless is clearly the future, particularly as EVF tech evolves.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Stanchung

Not traditionalists, people who don't like lag and screen pixels that fade.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

Ross the Fidller

Pentax tried that idea, but the camera looked ugly to start with & defeated the purpose of going mirrorless with flange to sensor still being so long.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

You can mount current DSLR lenses to mirrorless bodies and Canon EOS-M users have a Canon-supplied adaptor. Historically the issue has been that DSLR lenses don't work well with contrast-detect AF, which requires tiny focus position corrections at a high rate, but as more and more sensors get phase-detect pixels that may help with that. Also new focus motors help too, Canon has USM which is great for PDAF but not for CDAF, STM which is great for CDAF and reasonable for PDAF and now nano-USM which seems pretty good for both. (Other mirrorless brands are available, but Canon is a good example due to the focus motor range.)
I think Nikon are clearly doing a mirrorless system sometime soon, but I'd be surprised if it was FF unless it was unusual in some major way, as the FF area is the one area where they have a lot of really good products and stealing sales from them wouldn't seem optimal. I'd guess at DX like Canon. Or something very different in FF.

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

I think the "poor design choice" proponents are concentrating on solving the small consumer ILC camera with collapsible kit lens a bit too much. They are likely right that to address that market you need a small camera and the perfect example are m4/3 and Sony Nex.

Solving this problem as nothing to do with offering a mirrorless body based on your existing mount. The market isn't the same. True that it would not cover as well the small body market but do you really care? If you are Canon or Nikon you already have dedicated mirroless mounts. It was not necessarilly the huge success you hoped for.

That is completely unrelated again with having a mirrorless body that happen to natively support your historical mount. This is just another model in the mount echosystem. Potentially a quite interresting one, but still. The investment is much smaller. It target enthousiats and pro that will welcome and extensive lens line and wouldn't mind a bigger and more ergonomic body.

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

photonius

@Nicolas.

Of course it is possible to make a mirrorless with the same flange distance as a SLR. But then it's actually not a new system. You just can evolve your current camera line with bodies, some of which that have a mirror, some of which don't. It's just an evolution of the current bodies, and I expect this will happen eventually, when electronic viewfinder speeds become fast enough to compete with optical ones.
But then, if you eliminate the mirror box, why not go the extra step for a new system, which also allows you to make smaller bodies, and smaller UWA/WA lenses. All the current lenses can be used with a hollow tube adapter.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

Because echosystems are based around mounts. Cameras come and go but the lenses are kept far longer and that finally the mount people buy in. Native support is also better than an after through adapter.

But you can pursue both of course. Where I am not convinced at all is that it allow for smaller lenses at all more than the sensor size. Overall the Sony FE lenses are big/jheavy and quite comparable to equivalent Nikon/Canon lenses.

Fuji X lenses are small but dedicated to APSC and if you see their f/2.8 zooms are big/heavy.

If you look at Pentax limited lenses all made for K-mount you get a variety of small, light, hight quality lenses from 15mm to 77mm including 4 pancakes. They even have a some moderately size zooms, a collapsible kit lens, a nice small 55-300 and even the f/2.8 zooms are not that big.

People value ultimate resolution for hypothetical 40x60" print seen with a magnifying glass... So mirrorless bodies get just that too.

Sep 10, 2017permalink

Pentax did a mirrorless model with DSLR flange distance, it wasn't that small and didn't do well, although it was quite different...
http://camerasize.com/compact/#285.82,684.349,ha,t

Sep 10, 2017permalink

lingccp

Pattern doesn't mean in production. Withdraw before a competition like DL is the act of chicken. Hopefully Nikon can produce something better than Sony, or at least EOS M, or end up like Samsung. I am more interested to know what kind of mirrorless are they producing rather than the glasses.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

leonche64

They said they could not get the technology in the DL to work. To put a flawed product on the market and then have to recall it is not something they want to go through again.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

RayVagh

Because Nikon still can't develop an AF technology that can compete with Canon & Sony. The same reason why Nikon video division was closed down more than 3 decades ago.

Sep 10, 2017permalink

thx1138

So I checked the patents and the 50mm lens is around 257mm long, or longer than my 300 f/2.8L IS, now that is simply ludicrous, even Sigma would blush.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

russbarnes

lol needless to say you are completely incorrect lol

Sep 8, 2017permalink

thx1138

Even bigger LOL, needless to say to can't read it seems, there in B&W 256.8mm in length. Wanna try that again.

Nikon 52mm Specs

ｆ＝ 51.60 focal length
ＦＮｏ＝ 0.91 (aperture)
ω ＝ 46.19 (half angle of view)
Ｙ＝ 21.63 (image height)
ＴＬ＝ 256.8 (total length)
ＢＦ＝ 18.225 (backfocus)

Sep 8, 2017permalink

photonius

Yup, there are so many elements in there, it looks huge.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

russbarnes

Yep, you are completely incorrect. Look again.

Sep 8, 2017*permalink

dialstatic

Not sure if you're reading the patent specs correctly or not, but I would kind of expect a 50mm f/0.9 lens to be on the large side.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

The leica are much smaller than that...

Sep 9, 2017permalink

Najinsky

@russbarnes. What point are you trying to make?

Thx has shown figures from the linked embodiment that shows total length of 256.8 (presumably millimeters).

Just saying he is wrong and saying read it again is useless and annoying. Anyone who looks can see that is the figure given.

The only way you can say he is wrong is if you actually know a different figure for the total length.

So why don't you start by telling us what the real length is, and where you got it from?

Sep 9, 2017permalink

If I were Fuji, I'd pack it up right now. No way they'll compete with Nikon with their toy hipster cameras!

Sep 8, 2017permalink

The Davinator

Considering you bought a bunch, seems you like toys. Don't worry...we know you dont actually own any cameras.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

I work hard for my cameras and enjoy them. Don't be envious because you're poor. Get an education and maybe you'll appreciate the finer things in life! Lol

Sep 8, 2017permalink

tangbunna

they are making lens for Sony A7R2. hahaha

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Hahahaha.. good one.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Sony is going the way of Samsung once Nikon releases their mirrorless FF camera!

Sep 8, 2017permalink

caterpillar

panchorancho, if sony folds, Nikon will fold soon after. Remember where Nikon sources their sensors and where the innovations that make Nikon and others competitive.

In fact, if Sony was mean and not forward looking, Nikon, Pentax and others it sells its sensors too would be long gone. But Sony is smart. The normal mind set is you deprive your competitors access to the no 1 piece of the puzzle of a digital camera - the sensor. Without Sony, these companies would have probably folded a long time ago.

If you can't figure why Sony does this, then that's your problem. And Sony is not like Samsung. Sony has a loooooong history in digital imaging. it's not a beginner.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

They would have found another image sensor supplier, then.
E.g. Samsung NX1/NX500 sensor has 28 mp, 15 fps and cross-type OSPDAF, which Sony doesn't have still and they put 24 mp with AA filter in their cameras.
Nikon exists because of fast AF and large lens portfolio, which has nothing to do wth Sony.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

@catipellar Nikon doesn't need Sony, Sony needs Nikon! Without Nikon's sales volume, their whole division would go bankrupt! Learn basic economics 101 and come back to me when you want to have a discussion with an adult! Lol

Sep 8, 2017*permalink

I think the cell-phone business does well enough for the Sony sensor division that one camera company more-or-less really isn't critical.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

The pro are not carring much about electronics and all. They make Canon #1. There other sensors provider than Sony and the performance maybe isn't as good but it still work. If Sony was not there the market would be different but if anything Nikon sales wouldn't not be eaten by Sony so they would be happier overall.

Sony need volume to justify the expense to make the best sensor. They don't sell enough camera by themselves.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

zacharry

Silly question, but what is the difference in a lens for a standard FF DSLR and one for a mirrorless FF. Would they not be interchangeable if they are both for FF? Do they have different mounts or something?

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Abu Mahendra

A mirror-less camera has no mirror so the lens can sit a lot closer to the sensor.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

theprehistorian

True, but it should be noted that putting the lens's rear element so close to the sensor is not without consequences.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

@theprehistorian
do you mean rays hitting corners at shallow angle?
For the lenses pictured, this does not occur. It depends on position of exit pupil, NOT the rear element.
It's not major issue on BSI sensors anymore.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

See Sony FE lens line. They are not any smaller than the DSLR lenses with same focal length and apperture overall.

The shorter flange allow for smaller design, but when you aim for ultimate quality, you may not be able to leverage that that much.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

theprehistorian

Lens-sensor reflections and other kinds of flare are a major problem when the flange distance is that small; and yes, vignetting is an issue too. If you're into contra jour and similar then the good old F mount will be supreme for a while yet.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

Mirrorless lenses are made with future technology, while regular lenses are not future proof. You can read more about it regarding the progress of Moore's Law and the dynamic physics of optical design. Basically new lenses do not have the reflecting mirror built into the optical flange path of the light ray emitters. Very simple when you think about it. Unfortunately Sony lenses are not true mirrorless since they do not give a proper 4k readout on the sensor to lens distance ratio. Properly calibrated lenses are more a specialty of Nikon and a few lens designs from Cosina Zeiss.

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

Spectro

"A mirror-less camera has no mirror so the lens can sit a lot closer to the sensor." yes why you can have pancake lens, but most pancake lens are wide angle because the short focal length.

But lens size length can't change too much because of physic. Focal length is the same in for all lenses and camera. Why you need to place an adapter in front of MILC, also why some sony FE lenseshave a big chuck no glasses element in the rear. 50mm focal length is the distance between the focus plane and the sensor, which is the same on a mirrorless or dslr. The focal length will not change. Maybe they can take a few elements infront of the same focal length it might shorten the lens, but a 50mm is going to be all around the same length as other 50mm. Higher grade and bigger aperture lenses might be a tad bigger, longer and has more front elements before the focal length. The cheaper one are as small as it gets.

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

otto k

Hmmm, these might be cine lenses... Size and weight wouldn't be such an issue then. It would make sense from image height in specs as well. We'll see (maybe).

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Probably, yes.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Ace of Sevens

This shallow a DoF on a cine lens wouldn't be super useful, I'd think.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

kuklukklak

Best news of the day. Welcome Nikon to the small but fun mirrorless world.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

russbarnes

These lenses will not be small. They're Full Frame huge aperture for starters...

Sep 8, 2017permalink

According to CIPA statistics, shipments of mirrorless are about 50% of DSLR by unit count and about 90% by value.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Assuming you ignore short periods where manufacturers can push a lot of units into the channels and then have some slower months afterwards, last year we had:
8,449,043 DSLRs shipped
3,158,735 mirrorless shipped = 37%
370,126,941k Yen DSLR shipments
149,432,809k Yen Mirrorless shipments = 40%
Jan-Jul this year:
4,322,753 DSLRs shipped
2,397,936 mirrorless shipped = 55%
199,784,763k Yen DSLR shipments
130,158,097k Yen Mirrorless shipments = 65%
But that will probably change in the second half of the year due to DSLR launches.

Sep 9, 2017*permalink

Stanchung

Selling more as DSLR owners wnat something small for travel. Seems like a trend. I'd stick with Nikon.

Absurd as it sounds, I despise poorly designed logos/branding/names.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

rrccad

the 36mm has a total length exceeding 160mm. Right. This will really make it to market.

both look like defensive patents and not practical patents.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

BlueBomberTurbo

Guessing they're using these as templates, so they don't make the same mistake they did with the F-mount size.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Triplet Perar

1.2/35? 0.9/52? This is Nikon's Noctilux, most likely a premium lens that will cost arm and leg. But has so many lens elements, that will surely be overcorrected. But everything to please the same crowd of 'users' who sing all the same song, and seem to cast the spell on minds of management in the entire camera and optical industry.
So mirrorless FF it will be, with superfast lenses large as wine bottles, and everyone will buy them to take premium shots of their cats or afternoon snacks.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

FodgeandDurn

This is one of the most cheerless things i have ever read.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Triplet Perar

Welcome to imaging Gotham. It will go EXACTLY that way. It's the future pre-dictated. Cheer for it, because we already know how will mirrorless cameras and all lenses look like, and these patents confirm the already established trend industry-wide! Nikon does not need to announce anything — we know, to the last detail, all about their future camera and lenses. Because if Nikon does not do it in *exactly* that way, it will be booed to death. It's the rule of the mob, and their tastes — not the rule of solid engineering or scientific facts.

Sep 8, 2017*permalink

There is no such thing as overcorrected. The best engineers can do is perfectly corrected, but that is close to impossible.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

S Yu

Well, metalenses seem to be developing faster than expected, with any luck we may yet be getting tiny 16/0.95s in a few year's time.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

@S Yu
I don't think so. People will find it difficult to pay 2x price for a lightweight thing. They will feel it's a scam.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Photomonkey

There is overcorrection in the idea of a lens that is so good that its reviewers brand it as "soulless".
Frankly, I enjoy old Pentax lenses that have a creamy smooth rendering and also some bitingly sharp Leica lenses. I have used old Nikon lenses that had warmth and Old Vivitar lenses that performed with charm.

I currently use a lot of Canon lenses that are sharp and contrasty but I never feel that they have any particular character.

Sep 11, 2017permalink

Joed700

The timing of this announcement is odd, because I'm wondering should I just skip the D850 and wait?

Sep 7, 2017permalink

thx1138

You do realise that since these are patents they might never see the light of day and even if they do they could be years away. I hardly think these would be the very first lenses Nikon would release for a new mirrorless (which is coming reasonably soon), but who knows maybe they will pitch the mirrorless so high end only Leica buyers could afford it.

Aside form that either of these would be pretty sweet, but price could leave most of us out of the loop.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

S Yu

And you shouldn't expect Nikon to get it right the first time, a7 was pretty crappy first gen and Sony was all-in, Nikon isn't.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Joed700

@ thx1138 - I read your comments about the size of the 50mm. I think I'm ok with the D850 + lens system...

Sep 8, 2017permalink

leonche64

This is not really an announcement from Nikon. Someone just saw their patent applications and published them.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

matthew saville

It's hard to tell based on the optical formulas alone, but it's *possible* that these lenses aren't too gigantic and brick-heavy. Nikon might be trying to go all-out in efforts to revive the "mirrorless can be lighter and smaller" mantra that was so widely shouted by rangefinder users back in the day, when the first Sony A7 came out.

We've seen dinky little lenses from Leica and Pentax, the latter even offering AF in the lenses, though not with a built-in motor admittedly.

It'll be interesting to see where these lenses fall on the playing field, if they are ever made at all.

At the vey least, I'll look forward to even lighter, smaller, and more affordable lenses of more modest f-numbers. A "dinky" FX mirrorless with a "dinky" 35mm f/2 and 85mm f/2 would really make my day for wedding journalism and portraiture...

Sep 7, 2017permalink

elementare

I am an happy Nikon user and I would never use a sony A7 mirrorless camera for work because I don't like the ergonomic of these cameras with pro full frame lenses that are anyway big and heavy as their corresponding FF dslr lenses. I find my D750 greatly comfortable, I like how it looks, the controls, the image quality, the menu, I love too much Nikon lenses rendition.

But for personal photography, out of work, I just pretend to use a smaller and unobtrusive camera with one or two small lenses, such as the Sony A7r2, which I can mount every small manual lens and enjoy with an unobtrusive, small and light bag.

The issue for Nikon right now is that the Sony a7r2 already exists and I can buy it right now, their FF mirrorless camera, of which nothing is known neither on the horizon, is still just a dream, right now and right tomorrow morning.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

HakanL

I'm sure you could give me 10 good reasons why nothing will ever come out of this, and still I would say: This is interesting.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Kondamin

Sure someone else could license the design and make them.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

trungtran

Perfect on the Nikon 1 series

Sep 7, 2017permalink

DualSystemGuy

These will never happen. Way too big, heavy, and expensive for a mainstream mirrorless system. Probably just prototypes.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

Satyaa

I think so too.
They make many designs and prototypes out of which only a few make it to end product.
Whenever they have to do something new with a design/prototype, they just register the patents for the heck of it.
The technology could be used in other lenses in future, or the patent can be sold/licensed to someone else.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Triplet Perar

Sep 8, 2017*permalink

Etmahoa

Yeah! Go take the fight with Leica again!

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Photo_AK

OK. Look at the images, the lens diagrams. Imagine the front filter thread is 72 or 77 mm and now try to imagine the lens' length. These two lenses are HUGE!
Me says these are only patents that will never come to fruition. Maybe some other lens designs in the future will be based on some of the solutions presented in these patents, but that's all.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Satyaa

These are not product sketches and certainly not be to scale.
They're just design patents as you said.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

bobn2

Those don't look like a FF 52 and 36mm looking at the diagrams, the angle of view looks quite small, more as though they a re telephotos for the 1 system, especially given that they are both telephoto designs with negative power at the back. Mind you, they have negative power (huge) at the front, too. But the patent does give a image height of 21.6mm, which would be FF. Odd.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

Eric Calabros

36mm on CX is 97mm. Doesn't make sense.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

AshMills

Could they have speedbooster lens elements built in? For instance a 90 MF f1.6lens with a 0.58 Speedbooster could make a 52mm lens with a 0.9 aperture?

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Trebor1

bobn2 Could these lenses be image-space telecentric or approx? This would require a large diameter rear element (as shown). If it is possible to get less vignetting, regardless of sensor technology/microlens design then this would be a huge bonus, given the excessive levels seen in many fast FF lenses.

Sep 9, 2017permalink

TN Args

IMO these specs suggest an APS-C mirrorless, where f/0.9 eqivalates to f/1.4, and f/1.2 to f/1.8. Hence creating APS-C lenses with the DOF of an f/1.4 standard lens and an f/1.8 portrait lens on full frame.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

All the lens examples in the four patents have an image circle that covers a 24x36 sensor.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

AshMills

Could they have speedbooster lens elements built in? For instance a 90 MF f1.6lens with a 0.58 Speedbooster could make a 52mm lens with a 0.9 aperture?

Sep 8, 2017permalink

goactive

I think they are running out of time. With so many mirrorless cameras out now and more coming out every month. When Nikon user makes the switch most of them sell off everything Nikon to make a full switch so at that point they are no longer a Nikon customer. It takes a lot of money in body's and lens to make a switch so most will not be coming back. Look at the D850 that should have been a mirrorless camera. I will never buy another non-mirrorless camera and my D500 is not starting to get old. I just hope if they do make it this year they do not hinder it like they do many cameras. They need - a FF a Cropped and a new V4 sized camera that both can use all the other Nikon lens. If they come out with a new lens mount for FF and cropped and all new lens and no older lens will work or will only work with limitations then that's it for me time to move on.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Spectro

Except for the sony apsc milc, most milc buyers are older demographic from what i see and read, aka dpreview. Plenty of market left for canikon. Most people dont just sell of their lens collection and switch, especially if they still have kids growning up and a house mortage. People posting on photography website are the minorties.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

misspiggy01

probably for nikon 1

Sep 7, 2017permalink

BokehFanatic

Oh yes, although "just" a patent, I'm extremely excited about the upcoming mirrorless Nikon!

Sep 7, 2017permalink

'Just' four patents, actually:

- 2017-156429, 2017-156430 and 2017-156431 with 14 examples of a 35mm f/1.2; and

- 2017-156432 with 4 examples of a 50mm f/0.9.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

BokehFanatic

Nice! I guess it's common to do it this way as they probably "test" different designs and have their configuration anyway.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Mariano Pacifico

If it looks like F2 it must be F2 !!!

Nikon took F2 Photomic from their museum then unhinged the mirrors attached digital camera back install MD4 and voila! They got MIRROR-Less motor-driven retro camera!!!

Way to go Nikon .... COULD I JUST BE DREAMING ???

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

millardmt

You mean MD-2, right?

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Benna78

Guess they'll be affordable, light and small.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

princecody

Is Nikon trying to be the mirrorless camera all the "cool kids" buy like the new iPhone 📱 8 for $1200 that launches next Tuesday 🤔🙂

Sep 7, 2017permalink

trungtran

I think you mean the "rich kids"

Sep 7, 2017permalink

but if you're rich you can pay people to think you're cool

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Mateus1

Well, if Nikon would bring SP mirrorless with corner EVF (RF style) with great control and direct access to features + small 24/2, 35/2 50/2 and 85/2 primes, 36MP, colour rendering from D3 or D850 and AF from D500, I swear I will sell my photo gear - Canon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax and Nikon, to buy this beauty.

;-)

Sep 7, 2017permalink

custom made camera just for you coming right up
load your gear on ebay now

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

evogt500

That's a lot of elements for a 50ish lens...

Sep 7, 2017permalink

RubberDials

Here are the quotes used to claim Nikon is developing a FF m/less:

"While details are confidential, we can say that we are currently developing new mirrorless products that build upon Nikon's strengths, and offer the performance prospective customers expect, including the ultimate optics performance, image-processing technologies, strength and durability, and operation."

"On the product side, we should compete in the mid-range and high-end DSLR. We aim to be the top in a genre, and earn profits even if sales are down. For a smartphone generation, we put out a very Nikon-ish mirrorless camera which is superior to rivals in quality. Making the best use of industrial lens technology, we would like to overwhelm them in lens quality. On the other hand, we need fun."

I see no indication that Nikon is developing a FF m/less camera. They actually talk about competing in the 'mid-range & high-end' DSLR sphere. The m/less product is described as being for the smartphone generation and fun.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

maybe they will re-brand the N1 as the Phoenix1

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Fujica

36 and 52mm sound like odd focal ranges for a ff sensor.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

otto k

Why? Fast fifty was everything from 45 to 56mm. I think anybody would be hard pressed to tell the difference between 35 and 36mm lenses. It's not like they are not "rounding" the focal length as it is.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Lyff

What about Pentax 31, 43 and 77mm Limited lenses?

Sep 7, 2017permalink

BlueBomberTurbo

Pentax loves to be the oddball.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

50 will be marketed as 50mm and 36mm as 35mm. Who's gonna measure anyway. 35 and 50 are very common FL.

Sep 8, 2017permalink

Clyde Thomas

Opposite Sony strategy.
Nikon will start with more pro lenses and fewer overheating cameras.

I personally think this is a great plan. Nikon certainly has this Sony users attention.

Sep 7, 2017*permalink

janist74

And for sure with well oiled curtains. :)

Sep 7, 2017permalink

BlueBomberTurbo

Don't worry, the oil won't move off the curtains because the camera won't overheat the oil. That's how it's supposed to work, anyway...

Sep 8, 2017permalink

janist74

These are rather for an APS-C body, right? Otherwise they would be huge, making the marketing of a mirrorless camera much harder...

Sep 7, 2017permalink

musicalhell

Says full frame in article title, same for the body of the article so I'm assuming it's for full frame sensors.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

davev8

yes i F0.9 FF lens will be big ...its a physics thing ...just like sony's G master lenses

Sep 7, 2017permalink

The 18 lens examples (fourteen 35mm f/1.2 and four 50mm f/0.9) in the 4 patents all have an image circle that covers a 24x36 sensor.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Wubslin

Apertures that wide are pointless, except when Canon releases lenses with them, then they're the best thing ever.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Godiwa

if it is for fullframe why the "odd" focal lengths?

Sep 7, 2017permalink

Clyde Thomas

Prepare to see more of this strategy. Good way to differentiate from high quality third party offerings. Sigma/Tamron less likely to copy exactly.

Sep 7, 2017permalink

otto k

You could tell 35 vs 36mm photo?

Sep 7, 2017permalink