Canon granted third most US patents in 2016

Yes but a fair amount of these are for Cameras and lenses.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

philippesabou

i have a canon 5d, i love it but it's too old !!!

Jan 17, 2017permalink

https://ipcloseup.com/tag/patent-sales/

It does not matter too much how many patent Canon has, but usefulness which can see from patent-sales:

IBM is #1, then Panasonic, NEC, and SONY, take a look:

In some sense, patents are also products. products can be useful or USELESS.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

(unknown member)

selling your patents means you need cash and are looking at making some quickly.

it's not about the usefulness of the patent.

While IBM still leads, over the past three and a half years, it has been joined by IP-conservative firms from Japan, notably Panasonic/Matsushita, NEC and Sony.

*All four of these companies have something in common: poor recent financial performance.*

Kind of backfired on you there, didn't it?

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

noflashplease

IBM looks like it's headed the way of old Kodak or pre-bailout GM. To be honest, I'm not sure what IBM does any more, except for constantly downsizing/outsourcing their dwindling workforce, high profit margin government contracts and nebulous corporate "consulting."

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Grive

Any list headed by modern day IBM is one you want to think deep and hard before deciding if it's one you want to be in.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

I'm not a Canon hater, but I hope that people (consumers) do realize that this type of stuff, while it's great for Canon because it protects intellectual property, but for consumers, it adds additional costs to the product pricing.....

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Paul Petersen

Canon is ina lot of other business area besides photography that account for a lot of this.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

treakj

Not that simple. For one hand, yes, what you said is true. On the other hand, you'd need to ask if those technologies would exist if there's no protection of intellectual property.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Yeah I know that they are in a wide range of areas. They mention it, but there's also a point where too many patents could be seen as anti-competitive if they are targeted towards one specific area (ie. image sensors for cameras for example).

Jan 17, 2017permalink

AstroStan

To become a patent troll after the real business collapses?
Or attempt "winning" in court instead of the marketplace?

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

Revenant

But Canon has the largest market share by a wide margin in the camera market, and it has even increased in recent years. So for now at least, Canon is doing very well in the marketplace. And since imaging products only account for roughly 1/3 of their business, failure in the camera market wouldn't necessarily spell the end of Canon.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Even less now that Canon owns toshiba's medical division.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Ultimax

Yes, Canon now own Toshiba Medical a very profitable and high end medical imaging company. So as well as AV/Cameras, Canon now sell high end MRI, CT, Ultrasound...

Jan 19, 2017*permalink

noflashplease

I think it's time for Canon to downsize the overstaffed R&D department and invest the savings in acquiring more modern sensors, either through an updated chip fab or acquiring Sony's sensor division.

Patents are fine and dandy, but at this rate, the vast majority of those 3,500 patents will expire before any legitimate commercial use is made of them.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

(unknown member)

lol why on earth would they do that? I think where you went wrong with your comment was the first two words.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

sh10453

The consumer camera business is a small portion of Canon's business.
You may want to research their other, bigger, businesses in sensor fab, commercial printing and medical equipment.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Few years back, Canon showed us a small sensor which can see objects in almost total darkness.

It was then, now Canon's sensors are still behind SONY, but Canon 1" P&S got some life b/c using SONY sensor.

As Canon says always, "see impossible".

Jan 17, 2017permalink

villagranvicent

This is the equivalent for spray and prey shooting. From the 3500+ patents I wonder how many will actually see the light. If the whole R&D dept. dedicates one day to work on each patent they will need 10 years.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

One of the reasons is that Canon tried to bloke others to developer new tech-knowledge even Canon is unable to realize the concepts.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Actually Canon licenses there patents out to the likes of Sony and likewise Sony to Canon. Its good business to make money out of your patent and its not like Canon can manufacture phone sensors like Sony or Sony sell as many cameras (and copiers) as Canon. The industry would come to a standstill if Sony, Canon or Omnivision decided to start blocking one another using patents and that wouldn't be good for business.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

Cihangir Gzey

It has been quite a while since we lastly got excited with a Canon made cam. Personally I use 50D since October 2008. It runs on Magic Lantern and records 1080 30p video (without sound). Most of the ML stuff is still non existing in any Canon cam. The last Canon I bought was S120 which was suffering from battery problems a lot (many others appeared on the market with similar battery problems as well). Now we are in 2017. Still most of the Canon DSLR's are without 4K video (while many other cams have been providing that for years).
Unused patent=Nothing.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Photoman

So many patents...so many boring cameras...

Jan 17, 2017permalink

ron french

getting a patent passed to cover every country world wide is very expensive, then there is the patent application itself, that can cost thousands to draw up and the wording that covers the product or design. I had 3 pending patents to my name, But I only had enough money to get a patent that covered the EU, it cost thousands, and a company from an eastern country, copied one of my designs, and was selling it where my patent did not cover. I kept the pending patents going so I can improve or change the design. I could not compete with the far east manufacturing, I can better quality but everyone wants a cheap product, "Made in Britain" Quality means nothing to the customer, but money does.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

aris14

Cudos to Canon for its R&D dpt, no matter if only a few of its works aiming to broad audience. In periods like this where the R&D expenses are declining, the fact that a manufacturer keeps a strong R&D dpt, is good news.
Mind you that I am not a Canon fan.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

garyknrd

Sounds like Kodak. Personally I am fed up with Canon.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

emxgarcia

This is called reaction. Canon has to stop the practice of surgically selecting features for each model and most of the time leaving just one feature out so that you have to consider their top of the line model. That pick and choose attitude convinced me to drop all my Canon APS-C gear and go with Olympus. This is too little too late, at least for me.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

Reactive

Too true. Leaving out 4K on the 80D looked very bad - even if almost nobody in that camera's demographic actually uses or edits 4K yet! I expect most of these patents are the frivolous type: "Mmmm... that might just about be a good idea, maybe not... well, let's patent it just in case, we can afford it."

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

This is getting to be the way of the market in general. For example, you buy a cheap, low-end Ford Focus for $16k, or do you get cruise control and power windows for the mid-range model for $20k. Unfortunately, Nikon (As well as everyone else in the photography market pretty much) does this.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Ahh yes Gearheads know the market better than the company that has been leading it for the past 15 years. You admit yourself that nobody really uses 4k yet but bash Canon for not including it like all the other enthusiasts on this site. However all the Youtubers (that actually use the video features) and Mom and Dads go out buy their cameras by the truckload because its what they want. Silly Canon making a product that its real customer wants and not what the enthusiast wants. By that measure Toyota and Honda should be out of business too.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

If every model that Canon made had 4k, then the differentiation between the models would be very small, and most people wouldn't see the benefit of upgrading. They use 4k and higher MP count to entice buyers. For some, they don't want to carry around a video camera and a regular DSLR--they want an all-in-one that does it all. For others, they just want to shoot stills. So it all comes down to the marketing. It makes you go "well, I might use 4k, so I'll buy the more expensive model over this other one that only does 1080p). (Now, 4k is becoming standard on most new cameras, so the mileage for this marketing item is slowly running out of steam until the next thing comes out... 6k or 8k Video?)

Jan 18, 2017permalink

Although its not just that. There a Canon interview on imaging resource where the CTO explains that 4k is a heat problem and that it requires quite a bit of extra engineering. Ask Sony about their A6300 4k overheating problems. This isn't a case of Intel disabling a core on its processors or locking their speed just to differentiate the same product but an actual cost saving by dropping 4k and avoiding the risk of including it and having customers complain about a camera that shuts down. I imagine that is far more damaging for the brand than all the gearheads whining about it not being included.

Jan 20, 2017*permalink

Yeah, the Sony a6300 had overheating issues when it first came out from what I saw/read. I think you could get about five or ten minutes in and then it would overheat...? I think that 4k will continue to be a struggle (at least for the near future) because of the current engineering in the industry. 4k devices for some reason just run hot, and in digital cameras, they are generally sealed devices (ie. no real heat dissipation vents like you'd find on a larger commercial grade video recording device--like those used in commercial productions).

Jan 20, 2017permalink

King of Song

I don't know why Canon needs patents?

...... Do they worry Sony will steal their 5 year old technology, and release a vintage camera line?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

I'm not sure if you are aware that Canon' business is not just about cameras?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

They all cross license. Sony couldn't even make sensors without some Canon patents and likewise Canon probably needs some Sony patents these days. Good business sense sees them maximize the money on their patents by sharing this way instead of worrying about people stealing or using them to block competition. The difference between the two (which is quite small these days) is manufacturing ability and very little to do with who has better patents.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

garyknrd

All of the major camera company's have other interests.

Jan 18, 2017*permalink

Fujica

When can we expect true innovations Canon instead of inventions that solely exist on paper?

Until that time its nothing more then vapourware.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

belle100

Extracted from the conclusion of Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Review:
"4K video limited to Motion JPEG
4K/30p video requires CF card
1.64x crop factor in 4K video limits FOV
No Log gamma, focus peaking, or zebras for video"

I think Canon needs to put in more patents to give something what we want. ;-)

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Mystery Gardener

I suggest you buy a video camera. Right tool for the right application....

I have used my 1Dx for exactly 1 video (when my poodle puppies arrived). I have used my 5D4 for exactly zero videos. No other camera company matches Canon's lineup (cameras, lens & accessories) for taking photographs however... Plus almost all third party manufactures make something that fits the Canon mount.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Aroart

I wonder if Canon has a patent for not putting 4k in a camera thats less than $3500...

Jan 17, 2017permalink

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-google-renewed-its-fight-against-patent-trolls

I find it funny that a few years back it was all about the noisy sensor when you pushed shadows which although would probably not affect 95% of shots was still a tangible difference. Now that that difference has shrunk to where it really makes any real difference its suddenly all "where is the 4k" like its the all important feature that everybody uses. I think I can pretty confidently state that 95% of the camera market has no use for 4k and those that do (a real commercial use) will buy a product that designed to do it from the ground up.

Jan 18, 2017permalink

joe6pack

I would hazard a guess that it is because some executives in Canon has the brilliant idea of "quantity > quality". They want to beef up their patent portfolio so they can increase their bargain power. Exactly how patent trolls are thinking.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Jylppy

Have you went through their patent filings to make such a conclusion? It must have been lot of work.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

joe6pack

I didn't make a conclusion. I made an educated guess. I have worked in a company that does exactly the same thing, when the company did not perform well. The management want to beef up patent holdings to make the company more attractive to potential buyers.

Also, as someone who held several patents. I can tell you that the bar for getting a patent accepted by the US Patent Office is fairly low. It is only an issue when the patent is being challenged.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

Jylppy

I also have US & worldwide patent and I know exactly what you mean by low quality of patents and making those in huge numbers. Big companies build patent portfolios for protection of the business and to lower cross-licensing costs.

I just can't understand the amount of Canon-hate here. Every single post mentioning Canon attracts huge amounts of competitor-fanboy flame. If one is happy with Oly or Sony or Fuji or whatever, just enjoy it. Canon makes fantastic cameras with superb user interfaces and many people buy and like those. Don't assume every one disagreeing with you is an idiot. And I mean fanboys in general, not you Joe.

Jan 21, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Admirable when companies develop products to patent, less so if they just buy the patents, not at all if they buy them to make money off lawsuits. Canon isn't in that group I hope, but it is lucrative. Just ask one of the phone makers.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

GabrielZ

So many patents yet such a conservative camera line, but then cameras are only a sideline for Canon nowadays.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

TN Args

All hail the great innovator and inventor! Or, are we just locking up technology so no-one can make us look silly with our ever-more-refined Ford F150 trucks?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Debankur Mukherjee

Where is Nikon ?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

GREG HUTCHINS

Canon is all canon all there patents would be under canon cameras, copiers, printers, medical etc. Nikon is a part of The Mitsubishi conglomerate so all there patents would be under there names Mitsubishi heavy industries, electric etc .In fact Nikon is won of the very few Mitsubishi companies that don,t carry that name.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

tonywong

@GREG HUTCHINS, thanks for the Nikon info. It is odd that notable Nikon analyst/consultant Thom Hogan says otherwise,
http://www.dslrbodies.com/nikon/about-nikon/nikon-faq/is-nikon-a-subsidiary-of.html

But Mitsubishi seems to agree with you:
http://www.mitsubishi.com/php/users/category_search.php?lang=1

I think I'll side with you on this one. ;-)

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Revenant

Thom Hogan doesn't really say otherwise at all. What he says is that Nikon is not a subsidiary of Mitsubishi, but rather an independently run company within the Mitsubishi conglomerate. That's not the same thing.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Then why is their (Canon's) camera line so old and stodgy?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Saurat

Because they are more intereseted in producing solid, reliable cameras than hipster fads and fashion accessories.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

So the hipster cameras aren't reliable? I just wish Canon lower-end cameras didn't look so horribly crappy and cheap, like the plastic interior of a $15,000 car.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

ProfHankD

Well, patents are largely a defensive measure with rights traded in mass to avoid getting sued for other things... but in Canon's defense I will say that Canon is capable of outstanding engineering. One of my students recently disassembled an $80 PowerShot that had died and, frankly, it's got some very impressive modules inside. The problem is that once they build a module, it never changes. I understand -- gotta recover the engineering and tooling costs -- but electronics don't age well.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

They never do. The Holy Grail of cameras would be an SLR-designed digital with interchangeable backs, B&W, IR, low pixel, high pixel, updated systems, but that design philosophy isn't in the camera-maker's DNA.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

technotic

Why is SLR the Holy Grail?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Simon Says

@Saurat, Re: "producing solid, reliable cameras than hipster fads and fashion accessories." Sounds just like what the Blackberry & Nokia CEOs said in 2007. Guess what happened?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Well, the idea of sensor pack being changeable. But you could do it other ways, I think Ricoh did, but stupidly integrated fixed lenses with the swappable sensors.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

gravis92

Rioch gxr.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Jaythomasni

What is Samsung doing with so many patents?... Are they patenting copy cat techs stolen from others...-;)..Soon patent office will be flooded with Chinese tech patents.. Chinese and Koreans are clever in copying brands better than the original....-:).

Jan 17, 2017permalink

TrojMacReady

Yes, what's one of the largest electronics companies, active in so many different fields and leading developer in some of those fields, doing with so many patents.

*rolls eyes*

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Michael Ma

Looking at the teardown, my camera is missing the eye test chart. Also, that tiny humanoid.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Oh well. Just a legal formality in money-making process. Kodak invented digital camera, where are they now?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

So there is cause and effect here?
Getting a lot of patents makes a company go out of business?
I'd like to see a patent to production ratio for these companies.
How many patents end up in the cameras we buy no matter who made them?
I have never seen a camera advertisement that touts patented technology.
:-)

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

No, getting a lot of patents doesn't make a company go out of business. My point was that getting a lot of patents doesn't mean that the company makes better product. It benefits the company, not me as a consumer. For a consumer it's irrelevant how many patents the manufacturer holds, or whether it uses somebody else's patents. Consumer wants better product for less money.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

So krass...getting a lot of patents means nothing?
Not a baiting question.
Just curious what you think.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

For me as a consumer it means something, but not much. Hope your curiosity is satisfied.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

It is.
Thanks for answering my question.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

http://www.canonwatch.com/japans-low-cost-mini-rocket-aided-canon-tech-failed-launch/

You're welcome.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

gravis92

Canon makes good cameras. Nikon makes good cameras. Canon makes other stuff, Nikon not so much. Wait, everyone else makes good cameras too! All cameras made since 2011 are pretty good. Buy what you can afford and what looks nice to you, and you wont go wrong. This article was not about photography. Moving on...

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

villagranvicent

Where is Kodak? They are trying to revive their 8mm camera and Ektachrome film while others are working in 8k sensors.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

Paul B Jones

Jeepers, the folks whose main form of recreational activity is disliking Canon are taking this pretty hard.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

GaryJP

LOL.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

RubberDials

You don't know hard till you've seen a Sony/m43 thread trolled by Canon users.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Revenant

I definitely see at least as much hate directed towards Canon as towards Sony. MFT usually are under extremely heavy fire, though, but not so much from Canon users specifically as from full frame "fans" and the equivalency police.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Mared

Great way to compete - try to "own" as much IP as possible. Then Canon puts out outdated crippled gear and overcharges for it. Great way to take care of your customers by trying (not very successfully) to limit innovation/competition.

Crazy thing is "fans" of Canon think this is great for them...

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Frank C.

Learnt in school at a young age- "quality over quantity"...

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

I hardly think that having over 3,000 US patents make them an innovative company. The definition of innovation is a company taking a risk in translating an idea to a tangible product that meets a specific valuable need of the consumer.

To me, it sounds like Canon's 3,000 plus US patents is a way of preventing other companys from further developing ideas.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

waldi72

Do you mean this kind of risk:

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Jaythomasni

Samsung may be doing that but not Canon. Canon is the largest cutting edge high tech innovators who implement solutions first. patents are not to prevent others. That represents how much original thinking and R&D effort goes into their products

Jan 17, 2017permalink

pkcpga

I agree I think it's a method to slow down new camera model changes and development to give current models a chance to sell through before change. Otherwise it's hard to recover costs if they need to change models annually like Sony.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Paul Boddie

"patents are not to prevent others."

They grant the holder a monopoly by definition, so yes, they do prevent others from bringing the same stuff developed independently or works that might rely on the covered material to market.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Kinematic Digit

Just picked up the 5Dmk4 over the holidays. I own 5 Sony cameras, both A and E mounts. I'm very happy to return to Canon. Keeping my A7s but there has been plenty of innovation that I've appreciated in the 5Dmk4 over the 5Dmk3.

Canon's wifi tether alone is exceptional which makes all of Sony's apps with limited functions something they can learn on how to do it right. The DR has not been a problem for me with a small exception of extreme highlights (DRO is good to have on). But overall I'm happy to be back with Canon and found their improvements many steps ahead of it's past offering including my 1Dx that is my primary workhorse.

I really find that this whole system has been innovative, and found touch screens a very very important addition to my workflow. Been using it more in my work as of late, and probably will continue to do so.

Jan 17, 2017*permalink

kikiriki

Few of patents:

"This amazing new UVgel technology incorporates several new hardware technology developments from Canon:

Advanced, “next generation” piezoelectric print head technology employing patented acoustic sampling technology that monitors nozzle performance on-the-fly during printing.
A unique LED UV curing sub-system that operates completely independently from the printing system ensuring identical jetting to curing timing for every droplet for unprecedented uniformity across the printed image.
An LED-based UV system that cures without adding any heat to the media whatsoever, making it easy to print on the thinnest, most heat-sensitive flexible media.
Continuous, on-the-fly, nozzle performance compensation facilitates confident unattended printing and reduced print waste."

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Mariano Pacifico

3,665 patents! That is a huge WoW! I hope they got patent for sensor technology so Canon can liberate themselves from Sony.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

PhotoRotterdam

What are you talking about?

Jan 17, 2017permalink

Jonathan Brady

Clicked just to read the comments. VERY disappointed in the DPR community. Y'all can do better than that. MUCH better. I'm so sad now, I'm going to go sit in a corner and cry. I'll be back later and in the meantime, I want you kids to think about what you've done (or not done). Get these comments up to snuff! I expect entertainment!

Jan 16, 2017permalink

Sezano

Nicely done Canon. Innovate baby, innovate.
Cmon you haters, make my blood boil, cuz I love it.

Jan 16, 2017permalink

probert500

Driver of innovation? Eek

Jan 16, 2017permalink

Mike Griffin

Canon is more than just cameras

Jan 16, 2017permalink

And Nikon just patented how to run a 99.5 year old company into the ground before it's 100th year....
Just kidding.
Canon and Sony are the 800 pound gorrilas in the room.
Nikon will go they way of Hasseblad, Pentax, Mamiya....
The list goes on.
:-)

Jan 16, 2017permalink

Don Sata

Sony is still selling less cameras and way less lenes than Nikon so not in the short or mid term.

Jan 16, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Lol. Sony is more like the 800 oz mouse.

Jan 17, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

The mouse that roared.

Jan 20, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

squeaked is more like it.

Jan 20, 2017permalink

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-continues-marketshare-dominance-in-japan/

Sony is more like a mechanical mouse....
Wind it up....
And there it goes....
:-)

Jan 20, 2017*permalink

(unknown member)

hits a wall, then charges off into an entirely new direction!

Jan 20, 2017permalink

vscd

DSLR Camera Markshare 2016 (Japan)
Canon 63.3% (56.2% in 2015)
Nikon 31.6%
Ricoh 4.8%
Mirrorless Camera Markshare 2016 (Japan)
Olympus 26.8
Canon 18.5% (13.6% in 2015)
Sony 17.9%

[...]seems the patents are not the only dominance. In the world biggest photomarket, japan, Canon also dominates Mirrorless in front of Sony. Only Olympus is ahead. Fuji? ...never heard of her ;)

Jan 16, 2017permalink

Fuji has very small market share, but made BIG noise in the US especially here in DPR.

Jan 16, 2017permalink

webrunner5

Somehow I find it hard to believe a country with 127.3 million people buy more cameras than China, or India, or maybe the US even?

Jan 17, 2017permalink