Gcam: the story behind the Google Pixel camera software

Yeah... It is just a scam, even when it works....

It is like these "Sony raw is compressed!" when really no one even noticed it for first years without doing some stupid +-6 stop post process adjustments and wonder why there is something else as ugly.

3 months agopermalink

Tequila MockingjayBird

Google Scam Google's Cam

3 months agopermalink

GEONYC

Wake-up... The internet is a SCAM-Palace. As long as people can hide behind a site name and blog to the ignorant without any real credentials, and It won't get better.... ONLY WORSE.

4 weeks ago*permalink

Jefftan

Can only combine pics in low ISO (good lighting)
when in low light, already low shutter speed make combining multiple pics impossible

3 months agopermalink

in low light this system can take individual frames at much faster shutter speeds than you usually would, by combining them it then achieves the correct exposure. HDR+ is pretty great in low light.

3 months agopermalink

AngularJS

Gcam? No thank you - I'll wait for Scam :)

3 months agopermalink

Meh, that blog post was surprisingly light on details... The most interesting thing in the whole post was that the team leader used to work in animation at Hanna Barbera. Maybe I've just read one too many articles about the Pixel camera origins; I *was* pleasantly surprised by it's results and I didn't even buy the phone because of it.

3 months agopermalink

MikeFromChicago

This reminds me of something that happened many years ago with analog tape machines. The reel-to-reel machines ran tape across the record head at 15 inches per second, producing high fidelity sound. Then audio cassettes came along, passing the tape across the record head at 1 & 7/8 inches per second. No comparison to the HiFi recorder, even with all of the engineering developed to make the cassettes sound better. But cassettes easily won out. You could take the machines and the media anywhere. The reel-to-reel machines were cumbersome to transport, and you had to thread up the tapes.

Easy always wins, it's a crowd pleaser. The phone camera is always in our pocket, we're going to use it. For some, it is the only camera we'll ever use. They will never match the quality of the great cameras and lenses readily available. But that will not impede their popularity.

3 months agopermalink

I don't think, this is quite the same scenario. Computational imaging is pretty powerful. If conventional camera makers don't start making more use of it, the image quality gap between smartphones and big-sensor cameras will shrink further.

3 months agopermalink

newe

@Lars This is only true if you don't care to use a lens. That is, zoom. If one cares about a single focal length then sure. But you do bring up a good point, computing innovation in traditional DSLRs is sorrily lacking.

3 months agopermalink

multi-camera systems will soon be able to provide optical zoom - powered by computational imaging - see the Light L16 camera, similar systems will sooner or later be implemented on smartphones.

3 months agopermalink

newe

This is a long way away, and given the sensor size will not be able to compete with lenses. It is a generation away, but I do think that we will see the end of traditional cameras unless the manufacturers start putting camera phone technologies into traditional cameras

3 months agopermalink

MikeFromChicago

I think traditional camera manufacturers are pursuing computational image processing when appropriate. Honestly, do you see a day when "future Pixel" actually eclipses "future GH5."

3 months agopermalink

TheDarmok74

I'd like to buy it but it's not available in Austria and getting it via Germany is about 1,000$- way too much even for such a nice phone.
Funny strategy from Google.

3 months agopermalink

Yeah Google sucks at making things available across borders sometimes, don't feel too bad tho, keeping it in stock even in the US has been a whole ordeal. I got mine in November and it doesn't seem like it's been any easier to score one since, specially if you want the XL rather than the smaller one (what I got).

3 months agopermalink

rafaelinux

Class leading? About the worst Imaging on flagship available!

3 months agopermalink

Got an objective source for that comment?

Virtually every review touts the Pixel as having the best IQ of any phone at the moment. That is backed up by standardized testing from DXO (where it's #1) and the DPR review's own conclusion. It is using a large (for a phone) sensor (Sony's latest design) combined with very clever processing unique to the Snapdragon 821 CPU, followed by some outstanding google software. Aside from any subjective measures, nobody has been able to match it yet. The fact that it can shoot zero-lag HDRs already already puts it in a league of its own, and the electronic image stabilization for videos is also in a league of its own.

3 months ago*permalink

controversial statement, @rafaelinux ;)

3 months agopermalink

Zoom Zoom Zoom

rafaelinux, everyone has a right to their opinion, no matter how loony it is.

Would be awesome if you could please validate your opinion on the Pixel's IQ so you may educate the whole world why everyone is wrong about it and you are right..

3 months ago*permalink

angus rocks

it amazes me to this day, how can people not see when they are being trolled. wow. unless... unless... are you guys in on it, and trying to troll me? pretending that @rafaelinux is serious. damn i fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

3 months agopermalink

Bad trolls can still troll, welcome to the interwebs. DPR needs a comment downvote (again?).

3 months agopermalink

@ Angus - I think you will find that a lot of these people ARE serious (and seriously misinformed), but when they see the response they got, they pretend to just be joking / trolling to save face :) Brand loyalty, confirmation bias, etc. can all do some very funny things. Just because someone says something no informed person would ever believe, it doesn't mean they don't believe it and try to spread said misinformation.

3 months ago*permalink

rafaelinux

I am being serious. Look at any samples, or get any of your friends' phones. Look at any source of light. You'll see a ghost replica next to it.
Make that point of light be near the corner of the image: it'll deform And show coma.
Yes, it's really speedy, but the results are pretty bad, no matter how much post-processing you apply.

2 months agopermalink

I have almost 6,000 photos from my Pixel, a huge percentage of them taken in bright light or sunlight, from mixed situations and various vacations, and I do not have ghosting/flare on a single one of them, even ones with light sources near edges or directly into light sources. The chances of me having a magical phone are pretty low, so I would guess based on my extensive usage experience that the issue is simply not a problem for most users. You can get any phone (or multi-thousand dollar camera setup for that matter) to flare if you create the right situations.

2 months agopermalink

rafaelinux

@dualsystemguy I'm not talking about flaring but outright ghosting. A copy of the image seen elsewhere.

2 months agopermalink

I understand you - I have never seen this happen even once, nor have I read about it in any professional review, or seen it on any of the mobile forums I frequent. Nobody in our office environment with a Pixel has reported this phenomenon. I can't say it's never happened to anyone, but to make a general comment like "About the worst Imaging on flagship available!" is plainly false and a gross misrepresentation of the camera's typical capabilities.

2 months ago*permalink

kristof93

Camera manufacturers should implement this sooner rather than later. Bit embarassing that a phone has better iq than few years old dslrs.

3 months agopermalink

Some already do that. Example Olympus has it in their cameras if you want to use it.

3 months agopermalink

Current phones are nowhere near 3-year-old DSLR quality, not even remotely close. The best phone cameras, like the Pixel and GS7, are using 1.2.3" sensors with really good processing. Area-wise, that is about 18 times smaller than a DX sensor and about 30 times smaller than a FF sensor. Even worse, you have the iPhones using 1/3.2" sensors which have roughly 50% less area than the 1/2.3" sensors. None of them are even in the same universe as a 3-year old DSLR, which could be something like a Nikon D810, or any of the APS-C variants.

3 months agopermalink

kristof93

With the image stacking tech, you'll find that they beat a lot of older entry level dslrs, even in low light. Then there's 4k/high speed video where they beat most current entry and intermediate level cameras.

3 months agopermalink

kristof93

#Tommi K1 I use Olympus cameras, and they certainly can't do lag-free image stacking. There's auto hdr with bad deghosting; doesn't work very well handheld.

3 months agopermalink

noisephotographer

"Current phones are nowhere near 3-year-old DSLR quality, not even remotely close. " Exactly, the jpgs of the Pixel are much better than the jpgs from any DSLR! For instance much better dynamic range: https://youtu.be/RChEgcyO8Ww

3 months agopermalink

noisephotographer

"Olympus has it in their cameras if you want to use it." As far as I know their high resolution mode does not improve the dynamic range as dramatically (if at all) as the Pixel/Nexus6p. Moreover I heard that it can't handle moving objects very well whereas the Pixel has no issues.It's also slower and does not work handheld.

3 months agopermalink

RPJG

Sheesh. Let's not confuse "Better in one small aspect" with "Better overall".

3 months agopermalink

Olympus has a lot of neat software tricks, but seamless/instant hand held HDR off a constant image stream isn't one of them... Doesn't mean I actually prefer my Pixel to my E-M5 II for much, but I was pleasantly surprised by the former (didn't really buy it for the camera; updates, performance, and even USB PD over Type C were all a higher priority for me).

I do wonder if camera manufacturers haven't gone down this computationally heavy route because of hardware constraints (much easier to capture and mash a couple of JPEGs from a small sensor than larger files off a larger still sensor), or because they just don't have the resources and know how. The worst thing of all would be if they aren't doing it just to not break with convention.

Then again, it did take like 3 years for them to perfect HDR+ to the point where it became a standout feature, almost at the exclusion of the rest of their cameras features... A whole lot of exciting things have happened in the camera world in the last 3 years.

3 months agopermalink

J_moon

Times has changed where everything including camera tech is now increasingly reliant on software yet the Japanese hardware firms are still stuck in their 00s mindset where software is an afterthought at best.

It bit them hard in the rear when even their own Japanese consumers were dumping their hard-to-use domestic smartphones in droves for the iPhone, and it will continue to bite them hard when it comes to cameras.

3 months agopermalink

Jefftan

"With the image stacking tech, you'll find that they beat a lot of older entry level dslrs, even in low light"

This is BS. What DSLR are u talking about. My 2011 NEX-5N APS-C sensor if use DXO prime can have good IQ at ISO 6400 (even ISO 12800)
phone beat old DSLR even in low light?

3 months agopermalink

I dont talk about HR Mode nor HDR mode nor Exposure bracketing.
I talk about SCN mode for "starlight" and "handheld starlight". The camera takes rapidly 4-5 same exposures and stacks them together to lower noise. It does very well even with hands shaking and clearly lowers the noise.

Yes it aint perfectly single exposure speed but very close really.

HR mode does btw increase dynamic range, gets true colors (no need to have bayer filtering) and increase resolution. But it is 1" at fastest (works great for long exposure btw) and so on not usable handheld.

HDR etc are just quick things.

3 months agopermalink

panther fan

@Tommi K1
Yes some cameras already do that but it is nowhere near the performance of the Pixel.
In normal mode the Pixel is actually alway capturing images and if you press the shutter the last image is taken and will be blended with the previous images making it essentially lag free.

But there is more. The image alingment is much better and most important reliable. There are 0% of images missalinged. This is the biggest problem with current camera implementations. If you have to check the result every time you don't use the option. Also the camera software is smart enough to mask out moving subjects and use the tracking mask only for NR. This is the killer feature all cameras are lacking.

3 months agopermalink