Leica chairman contemplates Leica smartphone

It doesn't make sense to me that Leica would make a cell phone . . . at first. Did they make computers, when computer companies started to put cameras in computers? No. I think they're being silly. Make a camera that interfaces with a variety of smartphones via some sort of cradle with interchangeable docks, but don't try getting into the smartphone business. You CAN'T COMPETE against the likes of Samsung and Apple.

Then again, maybe you don't have to compete. I think that's the way Red looks at it. Leica won't have to sell millions of smartphones if they sell them for five times the price of an iPhone, I guess. Just 50,000 sales each year will make them many millions of dollars in profit each year, I guess. Presumably this is like super-cars and mega-yachts. There are some people who will buy them, almost no matter what they cost.

BTW, "Could a Leica smartphone a better alternative to . . . " should read: "Could a Leica smartphone be a better alternative to . . ."

Jul 29, 2017permalink

TillmanB

I agree, a Leica attachment or modular camera (like the Sony and Olympus things) that attaches to a smartphone makes more sense than an actual Leica smartphone. Seems like if they did a smartphone with would just be a Panasonic CM1 with a red dot and a thousand dollars added onto the price. Overall, I don't see this being a market Leica needs to step into and it seems that whatever they ended up with would be obscure and one more Leica product that would fail to stand out above lower cost competition.

Jul 30, 2017permalink

jboyer

I thought Apple was a computer company who put a camera in a computer called iPhone...
HP made cameras. And having camera companies making computers, aka cell phones, I can think of Sony.
In the technical sense a digital camera is a computer with some optics. A cell phone is a small computer with a small sensor and a small lens. The point being that I can certainly understand why Leica -- under its new RD division, would continue its amazing lens leadership.

Jul 30, 2017permalink

rds

Find a Nokia 808 and be happy.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

Bonyart

My HUAWEI P9 with the LEICA camera makes beautiful pictures and videos. Indoors photo with a group of people of 50 people, super. Zoom, a lot of different modes. I think that this is a masterpiece.

Jul 29, 2017*permalink

cosinaphile

i comment the thought experiment offered by leica here

the orientation issue is intelligent ...

i hope leica does produce a phone

and i hope if they offer attachments to it it does not brick it

Jul 29, 2017permalink

rsf3127

The DXO One add-on is a good compromise.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

pkcpga

If Leica can manage to get an iPhone Leica it may succeed, there's seems to be a bigger tolerance for price with the iPhone market than the droid market and it would give another option in the Apple platform that people may pay for just to be more exclusive. I think Leica wouldn't fair well as an android since Sony can't even break into that market with a premium phone, the growing market in android seems to be value, as many features as possible for as little money as possible, which makes sense since there's competition.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

ZeBebito

That is never gonna happen. IOS is not an open platform.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

No, Leica should develop their own operating system. They could base it on Ubuntu, and with the right processor it could really kick a$$. A better sensor, a better lens (maybe even a zoom lens), and a better screen, and the Leica smartphone could sell for $5,000 to Leica camera buyers all day long.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

quiquae

@Scottelly
Um, no, because Ubuntu for smartphone was discontinued earlier this year.

The only other non-Android mobile OSes that are still in active development are Sailfish OS and Tizen, and the market both are aiming for is the ultracheap smartphones in developing countries where Android may be unwelcome for political and/or licensing fee reasons. If neither is a major concern, there is no reason for not picking Android.

Jul 31, 2017permalink

Clyde Thomas

In 2015 DPReview reviewed my 1" sensor 20mp 4K "Leica" phone camera here:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-cm1-camera-review

"With its impressive camera specification and unusual design the Panasonic Lumix DMC-CM1 is the closest thing we have seen to a true hybrid device and a unique product in the current marketplace."

Still going strong. Pun intended.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

That looks like a pretty good start. ;)

Jul 29, 2017permalink

jim seekers

I have a Fujifone, well I downloaded the app called MIX to my Galaxy S7 and it gives me Provia , Astia colours plus Fuji slide filters etc, even does fake dark sky etc, the App logo is kinda in the shape of a men's Bow Tie, but it would be great if Fuji teamed up with Samsung or went it alone.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

zodiacfml

Good for them. I could see them designing aluminum bodies with decent camera setup, on par, with existing flagships. However, a technology (Canikon/ Sony/ Zeiss) company can take smartphone photography closer to larger cameras and there is still room for improvement even for sharing in social media. I would like to see new tech such as curved sensors.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

Don't post cell phone images until you put organic graphene sensors.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

how that would improve IQ?

Jul 30, 2017permalink

It is not IQ but signal/noise ratio is 1000 times better.

Jul 31, 2017permalink

eeek how it can be 1000 times better if quantum efficiency of modern sensors already exceeds 60% (for green)

Jul 31, 2017permalink

This is the paper from Nature: Broadband image sensor array based on graphene–CMOS integration. Nature Photonics 11, 366–371 (2017). I think cell phones will use graphene sensors first, and than DSLR cams will come next.

Aug 1, 2017permalink

@endofoto
did they claim '1000 times better' in it?

Aug 3, 2017permalink

The graphene photo sensor produced in Nanyang Technological University (NTU), Singapor claimed that: Not only is the graphene sensor 1,000 times more sensitive to light than current low-cost imaging sensors found in today’s compact cameras, it also uses 10 times less energy as it operates at lower voltages. When mass produced, graphene sensors are estimated to cost at least five times cheaper.

Aug 4, 2017permalink

surlezi

Yawn. This is so boring. Smartphones are junk now. Anything 3 years old is same as newest, market is saturated. They really need this kind of stuff to go on selling overpriced silicium.

Jul 29, 2017*permalink

Silicium? What's that?

Jul 29, 2017permalink

It's a latin name for silicon, the main component in the CMOS image sensors (and most integrated circuits)

Jul 30, 2017permalink

a1shot

Can you imagine, LeicaPhone firmware updates 3monrhs After the event.. Leica Do Not and will never have the infrastructure...

Jul 29, 2017permalink

https://m.dpreview.com/news/1485298834/red-patent-shows-insanely-modular-hydrogen-one-smartphone-plans

The infrastructure to do what? Make a digital camera? Does Red have the infrastructure?

Jul 29, 2017permalink

a1shot

Building the item is not the problem, keeping it running & customer service /turnaround..

Jul 30, 2017permalink

Slouch Hooligan

Perhaps Herr Kaufmann took note of these developments:

https://m.dpreview.com/news/8702161612/red-just-launched-a-1200-smartphone-with-a-5-7-holographic-display

Jul 29, 2017permalink

TonyPM

PanaLeica Phone m4/3 sensor and mount. A special purpose 12mm or 14mm pancake lens with an f2.8 aperture. They don't even have to make a new sensor.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

They could make a special 1/1.7" sensor 20 MP camera phone with a wheel of 3 lenses that could switch when you move a wheel on the side of the phone. One would be wide-angle, one would be normal, and one would be 3x telephoto (like 24mm, 50mm, 85mm primes). All could be f2 to f11.

Jul 30, 2017permalink

princecody

I'd Only buy a Leica iPhone hybrid! #DroidSucks

Jul 29, 2017*permalink

What if they used something totally different? (i.e. Ubuntu Linux)

Jul 30, 2017permalink

chillgreg

Baa, Baa, baa... #iSheepSucks

Jul 30, 2017permalink

Autriche78

At a time when the new iPhone is rumored to cost somewhere around $1400 and the luxury smartphone vendor Vertu just went belly up, you'd have to be highly tolerant of risk to even consider entering the market on the shaky premise that you can do something Samsung and Apple aren't already doing.

Of course there's no shortage of poseurs with money to blow, so who knows?

I won't have to worry at any rate, I already can't afford it :-)

Jul 28, 2017permalink

If it says Leica on it, there will be rich people lining up to buy it . . . just as if it said Porsche or Ferrari on it. Do you know that people buy over-priced Ferrari shoes at the Sawgrass Mills mall these days? (Well . . . to me they're overpriced, but to them they probably seem inexpensive.)

Shanghai alone has 116,000 millionaires. 10% of the millionaires in each of the 20 biggest cities in the World would be a highly successful market penetration, if Leica made a good smartphone camera.

Jul 30, 2017*permalink

Reinhard136

..... they cant even put a viewfinder on half their cameras, hard to see that they are the people build the fabled great canera phone ....

Jul 28, 2017permalink

Why? Camera phones aren't likely to have viewfinders either.

;)

Jul 30, 2017*permalink

Mariano Pacifico

What would Leica cellphone emphasis be? Image Quality? Cellphone quality?

Jul 28, 2017permalink

I'd take a wild guess at image quality.

;)

Jul 30, 2017permalink

Nathan Chao

I currently use the LG G5 with the camera module. It definitely improves camera experience with nicely located camera like 2 stage shutter button, separate movie button and zoom wheel and a contoured grip.
However in bright light outdoors, I can't see the manual shutter, iso and comp settings.
If a Leica smartphone can implement the traditional Leica features like knobs for Shutter, f stop and comp on phone body somewhere, then we have a real camera on the phone.
That's why people who can't afford a Leica love the Fuji 100 series with its easy know controls.

Jul 28, 2017*permalink

Kerensky97

Because nobody has ever thought to make a phone with a camera emphasis yet...

/sarcasm

We've been down this road before, they don't sell well, and they disappear. The best you can do is develop a high quality competitor to the normal phone camera. As soon as you make a phone thicker and bulkier people will shy away.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Yup you can't turn a hammer into a sword.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

Not true. There is a certain segment of the market that will accept a little more bulk in order to replace two products with one . . . especially if it saves them some money. Instead of buying the newest and smallest Leica compact camera and the best and smallest iPhone, I can see someone with plenty of money buying a $5,000 Leica camera-phone, if it works and gives them enough image quality that they can just stop using a camera. I'm thinking a zoom lens or rotating set of three or four lenses of differing focal lengths should do it. In fact, they could include two cameras, and both could use those lenses. One camera could have a low resolution low-light optimized sensor (maybe 12 MP), and one could have a high-resolution sensor (maybe 20 MP) with more dynamic range capability. Both could do 4K video and have 5-axis sensor-shift image stabilization.

And cgarrard, you CAN turn a hammer into a sword. You just need some heat and another hammer.

;)

Jul 30, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Scottelly, put all your bets and money on Leica then. Good luck with that hammer sword conversion.

Jul 30, 2017permalink

Aaron801

The idea of a very expensive smartphone that's almost certainly going to be obsolete tech and/or broken after just a few years seems pretty dubious at best. Better to get a cheap smartphone and then by a really compact dedicated camera that will probably have better IQ and better controls than any smartphone camera... and still spend a fraction of the cost of what this thing is going to cost.

I tend to think that Leica is for folks who have money they need to see gone, but I can at least see some wisdom of things like lenses being a decent (relatively so) investment. Smartphones seem more like a disposable object so it seems like much less of a good idea to spend that kind of money on 'em.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

Kerensky97

This is exactly what I do and it works out excellent. You can't cram a decent sensor and lens assembly into a device 1/4" thick. Get a decent, easily pocketable camera with fast and easy wifi transfer to a phone and you'll blow away any smartphone camera assembly out of the water.

The biggest drawback is the camera apps on the phone for transferring images and controlling the camera. Linking the two devices is time consuming at best, then choosing what picture to transfer is a slow process.

I would love a camera and phone app with a setting to auto dump all photos to my phone in the background as I take pics. Even at a relatively slow "buffer" rate of 1 pic per 3-5 seconds it's fine for the casual user Leica is talking about targeting here.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

walker2000

I see his point: There are so many smartphones in the market, but none is pleasure to use as a photographer. Similar to the phones before iPhone announced - they all worked but awkwardly. I believe there is a chance here.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

rondom

Oh nice...a rangefinder phone is on the way.

Jul 28, 2017*permalink

NickyB66

Don't do it Mr Chairman!

Jul 28, 2017permalink

TonyPM

PANA-LEICA PHONE?

Panasonic did make a phone with a 1" sensor in it.
It may be time to put a 4/3 sensor in it.... Or not ..

Jul 28, 2017permalink

JEROME NOLAS

Only FF is accessible...:(

Jul 28, 2017permalink

Lausti

I still use one and love it although the phone side of things is not the fastest. I have made A2 prints happily from the files though.

Jul 28, 2017permalink

TonyPM

The other option could be making a phone with Leica FF or m4/3 sensor and the correspondent mount covered by a body cap. When you want to use the camera to just mount your favorite Leica lens on it....

A big lens would be ridiculous, but an f2.8 prime lens, maybe a pancake...

My Canon Efs 24mm f2.8 stm wouldn't look bad at all on a phone. Only problem Is that the mount is as thick as the phone.

Jul 29, 2017permalink

jorgemtrevino

Now they'll be in real trouble! Bye Leica...

Jul 28, 2017permalink