Download and play with Nokia&#39;s new Raw photo files

Yeah a lot of people feel this way T3, but it's quite irrational, or smells of "fashion victim". Windows is not fashionable (to be mild) and Android is. Even people who admit WP8 is pretty darn good, say they won't buy it? When you ask them why, they basically say it's because it's not android:)

Nov 1, 2013permalink

Dave Oddie

Surely you should have said "When you ask them why, they basically say it's because they already have their favourite apps on Android that don't exist (or would have to be bought again on WP8) and for many other practical reasons."

I uses Windows 7 on my home PC. I'd prefer to be able to use Linux but I have invested too much money in applications and time in learning them to switch.

Isn't it the same with phone O/S's? Once you are invested in one changing is just a total pain in the neck and a clever phone from Nokia isn't going to sway that many people to switch in my opinion.

Nov 1, 2013*permalink

DaveE1

@YiannisPP: Android is "fashionable"?

It's certainly common, but I wouldn't say fashionable :D The iPhone still seems to appeal to the image conscious (and I am not just talking about its camera).

Nov 1, 2013permalink

"The iPhone still seems to appeal to the image conscious (and I am not just talking about its camera)."
You mean: The iPhone 5C still seems to appeal to the image conscious (and I am not talking about its pittyful non-OIS "camera").

Nov 6, 2013permalink

WayneHuangPhoto

Just played with the cat photo in Camera RAW. I am speechless at the IQ coming from a phablet. This beats images coming from my 5s, which I consider excellent coming from a phone camera.

Nov 1, 2013permalink

Michael Ma

Samsung is really quick to bang out an update to their software when people show enough interest. I hope that is the case here. RAW for the Galaxy Note 3 would be sublime.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

Not sure about the "sublime" part as it has a tiny sensor. Don't even think it's going to look anywhere near as good as what you're seeing here..

Nov 1, 2013permalink

Why there is no Android with big sensor and OIS?
(there will never be a good iPhone)
I just have to settle with the more sleek, but more restricted Windows Phone OS.
Tough choices in life: what phone this year?
I think I'll have to sell some stuff to get
the Lumia 1520 RED

Nov 6, 2013permalink

ManuelVilardeMacedo

Wow, a picture of a cat! How cheeky.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

3DSimmon

Now I am finally impressed, looks like one of the kids might inheret my 808. Nice move supporting raw dng, very Nice.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

Yes, now with a little work/time you can make the 1020 images almost as good as the 808s.. its a very good addition.

It also shows that they have a lot of work to do in terms of their own jpeg processing.. they need to port the Symbian algorithms to WP, which is probably what will happen with the Nokia Black update

Nov 1, 2013permalink

I'm not so sure about that Lumia Black update making everything better all at once. It might take a longer time for the former Nokia engineers, but when they have access to the OS and when Microsoft get their mittens all over the Nokia secrets THEN we will see some image processing supported by the OS!
Yeah! WP 8.1 plus GDR

Nov 6, 2013permalink

peevee1

" Like my Nikon's NEF files, the Nokia DNG's can have a few stops of exposure compensation and natural-looking white balance adjustments."

Do you really believe the tiny pixels "have a few extra stops" of dynamic range (needed to make exposure compensation after the fact) in them - beyond 8 bits captured by JPEG? Then I have a bridge to sell you.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

How does pixel density play with DR ? I know that nothing can beat big fat pixels, but doesn't density help a bit ? I mean.. you have 41 million 1.1 micron pixels, it must be better than having 13 million ..

Nov 1, 2013permalink

Joel Benford

It's a pretty noisy camera compared to MFT/APS/FF, even at ISO 100, even resized for a 1920 x 1200 monitor. There's only so much you can do to the files. Especially if you crop it hard, which you'll need to since it's got no optical zoom.

It's far and a way the best quality I've seen from a phone, but it's not like my NEX-6. Of course, it's not a big as my NEX-6 either, and it makes phone calls.

Nov 3, 2013*permalink

Michael Ma

OK. I'm 100% sold on the camera. Not on the OS. I hope they consider selling their camera modules like everyone else in the smartphone business. Once Lumia gains enough of a marketshare, maybe they'll see it as something that can only be good for business. Right now, they are using it as leverage to get more people to switch. I'm sure it is a good OS, but I'll switch for different reasons, not because they have a nice camera.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

rudy919

I don't understand this comment. you theorize it's a good OS, but you won't buy the camera because of the OS. And then, you go onto say that once there is other people with the OS, you'll consider it. I view this as saying something along the lines of boy, I wish this was canon and not a nikon.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

Yes, that's how I read it as well.

Nov 1, 2013permalink

Joel Benford

W8 may be a nice phone OS for all I know, but it doesn't run the one application I bought a smartphone (instead of just a phone) to run.

[Viewranger, GPS with topographical landscape maps used by hikers and mountain rescue and so on.]

Nov 3, 2013permalink

You me like what we have in Finland:
"Maastokartat"
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/maastokartat/67f85a12-b3cd-4a72-b9e2-c58cabc59051
or
"Karttaselain"
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/karttaselain/d3910fff-6855-4f5f-8636-9fb489e21f2a
or
"Finland Topography"
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/finland-topography/7b0d8a62-5a30-46c1-9b36-15583b944213
or
Ask Nokia to add it to the HERE Maps system and they will do it! (may take a year?)

Nov 6, 2013permalink

wansai

ok this is the original file as converted to JPEG in ACR: http://i.imgur.com/Htsn8Dg.jpg

This was after I processed it. This is not my normal process. I just pushed and pulled to see how far I can take it so it does have an HDR look to it.
http://i.imgur.com/iCkZLkd.jpg

There's banding in the highlights but to be honest, it's Very, very impressive.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

bigley Ling

nicely processed! The HDR effect still looks quite photo real which is nice.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

wow, very well done! Great processing, what HDR?!
And very impressive from Nokia...

Nov 1, 2013permalink

jcmarfilph

This should stop the Apple from creating iPhone with camera from now on. Charging more on a phone with mediocre camera is humiliating. Now if Nokia will put optical zoom and better controls, this cam will demolish budget P&S really.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

Michael Ma

I hope it gets Apple to stop using the term "DSLR-like" when talking about their camera quality, which they did in during the iPhone 5s annoucement. It is blasphemy, especially after looking at these true DSLR-like photos.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

peevee1

It demolishes budget P&S already - up to about $100 budget that is. :)
Wide aperture and big sensor with a lot of pixels means some digital zoom (crop) can be as good or better as dark optical zoom - up to a point. 2/3" sensor with f/2 is better than 1/2.3" sensor with f/5.6 optical zoom. 4 stops difference (3 from the lens, 1 from the sensor size) means 4x digital zoom (crop) on the former gets about as much light as the long end on the latter, producing about the same quality. And the residual 2.5 mpix is still more than enough to fill FullHD screen and then some. And try to find a cheap P&S which is faster than f/5.6 at 4x.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

DaveE1

It's good alright. Exciting times to see such devices pushing the limits of what is possible with smaller cameras (and smartphone cameras).

Let's not make this into a hate-fest. There is still a long way to go before these can be as good as the best dedicated camera of the day. Remember, those are improving rapidly too.

Nov 1, 2013permalink

"Let's not make this into a hate-fest. There is still a long way to go before these can be as good as the best dedicated camera of the day. Remember, those are improving rapidly too."
If you are talking about any DSLR you're right,
but if you talk about the simple P&S then you-re dead wrong.

Nov 6, 2013permalink

keith Bennett

excellent actually….

so i’ll take the 42mp(38mp?) camera in the phablet please….and can i view my ancient live-view DSLR wifi out on the phablet too please …. for my t/s shots you know …. ta very much Nokia

Oct 31, 2013permalink

That cat photo surely is impressive. Very impressive.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

LarH

Sorry Nokia, your dng files don't open in photoshop cs3.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

ShelNf

Sorry, your CS3 doesn't open Nokia dng files.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

LarH

So am I. Wish they did open in CS3.

Nov 2, 2013permalink

Ndi

I wish I knew that. I really did.

Dec 21, 2013permalink

wansai

going to download now to try these out. if works as advertised it's goodnight to all but the top range point and shoots and will demolish any other camera phone out there... will report back.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

michael2011

People criticize 32GB as "limited storage" for shooting RAW these days? How much memory do you put in *your* DSLRs?

Oct 31, 2013permalink

BlueBomberTurbo

64? But really, you need much more room on a phone, since you're storing a bunch of other stuff at the same time, not just photos. Music, video, apps and their storage data, OS, etc.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

LiSkynden

Exactly. Wife's iPhone 5 (16GB) has now 70MB free space and i asked what are you gonna do about it. Nothing, she said, "you are".
"ok, can i delete these?"
"no"
"what about these? "
"no" ...

I wait till she comes and says "OMG i cant save anything on my phone anymore" :D

Oct 31, 2013*permalink

Karroly

@LiSkynden & BlueBomberTurbo,
Solution one : one phone for music, one phone for video, one phone for apps, one phone for photography, etc...
Solution two :
Dedicated tools :
An good MP3 player for music, a good still camera for photos, a good video recorder for movies, a good computer for apps and a basic phone...for phone calls ! The way I do.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

bigley Ling

I can carry multiple memory cards for a DSLR, where as the Lumia 1020 is totally dependent on cloud storage like Sky Drive

Oct 31, 2013permalink

I'd also prefer the Lumia 1520 with RAW and uSD

Nov 6, 2013permalink

zodiacfml

Shut up and take my money!!

Oct 31, 2013permalink

zodiacfml

Nokia, I cannot afford this and besides I'm stuck with Android. Please make a dedicated camera from this at Nikon J1 prices.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

(unknown member)

Nokia's dead.
It's beyond dead, it's a zombie.

Oct 31, 2013permalink

http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/images/news/misc/nokiadevicesq3a.png

Nov 6, 2013permalink

SergioMO

And Nokia 808 ??? Do it Nokia

Oct 31, 2013permalink

RAW support for the 808 would be amazing, but I suspect that there might be a technical limitation of some sort.. not sure, but it might be that extra processing chip they have in there.. it might be preventing them from extracting the raw data from the sensor,.

That is of course if the jpeg processing is in fact done by that chip on the fly, instead of going to software way like the 1020.

Nov 1, 2013permalink

That would require a lot of programming so I think that future is the Lumia 1020 and Lumia 1520 and similar RAW capable devices.
Next thing: ask for an Android Lumia ;-)

Nov 6, 2013permalink

neo_nights

I've just had a play - that's impressive! [2]

Impressive how much I could pull the blacks. There's banding, alright, but it's impressive nonetheless.

Oct 30, 2013permalink

JamieTux

I've just had a play - that's impressive!

Oct 30, 2013permalink

joe6pack

Help us out here. Show us a JPG and RAW (w/ Adobe noise reduction and resampled to 5MP) side by side.

Oct 30, 2013permalink

We will have to wait for them to release the update ... but I suspect that the RAW file will give you a much better result than the nokia processing algorithm.

At least based on it's current state, with Nokia Black that might change.

Nov 1, 2013permalink