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Samsung investigation blames battery for Galaxy Note 7 fires

Reuters reports that an internal Samsung investigation has concluded the Galaxy Note 7's fires and explosions were not caused by faults in hardware or software, but by the devices' batteries. This information has been provided by 'a person familiar with the matter' ahead of an official Samsung report that is expected to be released on January 23. The company is also expected to detail measures for the prevention of similar problems on the upcoming Galaxy S8 and other future Samsung mobile devices. 

Samsung initially started recalling the Note 7 in September last year, offering other Samsung phones as loaners until a 'replacement' model arrived. Unfortunately, some of the latter too caught on fire until Samsung decided to pull the plug on the Note 7 entirely, stopping all production and marketing of the device and recalling a total of 2.5 million units.

Reportedly, Samsung wasn't initially able to locate the source of the problem, despite assigning hundreds of engineers to the task. However, eventually the fires could be replicated in testing, without finding any fault with hardware or software. Considering Samsung was using several battery suppliers for the Note 7 it seems unlikely that batteries were the sole problem in the scenario. So, we are hoping to be provided with some more detail once the official report is released.

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n3eg
n3eg

Chinese cells, probably. Device likely set up to use a 1150 mAh battery, Chinese specs rate battery at "2000 mAh" (HA HA!) and battery only measures 760 mAh. Come to think of it, that is EXACTLY WHAT I GOT FROM WASABI (and other) BATTERIES for my E-PL5. Why am I somewhat less than surprised?

Jan 22, 2017
budi0251

Every battery design supposedly had max discharge rate, denoted by "C".
Some RC battery can be discharged up to 40C, hence 1000 mah batt can be used to supply 40 amp current till depleted; while some other battery can't be discharged for more than 1C or 2C or they'll be damaged.

Modern cellphone do have some pretty powerful processor, some even uses liquid cooling; so i'd imagine SG Note 7 do use powerful processor and for some unfortunate event, the procie might be in heavy processing mode, coupled with other power taxing subsystems (wireless, vibrator, speaker, etc.) and production defects in battery and glitch in power control circuit while pulling high amperage, then we have flames and explosion with the battery.

That's why they can't simply swap the battery alone; of if they will, they could use lower amperage battery but higher discharge rate capable, but still you can only use your note 7 for 6 hours tops.

Jan 19, 2017
Zorros

Contradictions in your article:
'...were not caused by faults in hardware or software, but by the devices' batteries.

and at the end:
'...Samsung was using several battery suppliers for the Note 7 it seems unlikely that batteries were the sole problem in the scenario.

Jan 18, 2017
Mike FL

DPR's Copy/Paste seems causing the problem.

Jan 19, 2017
Najinsky

Perhaps I'm alone in this, I often am, but my mind can't resist to draw parallels with what is happening here on DPR in their quest/side effect of forcing/encouraging manufacturers to add every latest feature under the sun to their product or suffer the consequences of a low review score. The result, cameras that overheat, and/or have additional heat management systems contributing to the larger and more expensive bodies.

Kudos to Canon for still knowing how/when to buck the trend and make a great stills compact that doesn't try to do too much, and does what it does very well, in the most part.

Kudos to me for taking a phone topic back to cameras ;)

Jan 18, 2017
tom42

The fire usually starts when using the can opener app. :-)

Jan 19, 2017
bowserb

Yes, congrats to Canon for STILL not putting stabilization in either DSLR or mirrorless ILC camera bodies. We're so proud.

Jan 19, 2017
Najinsky

It makes little sense viewing today as distinct from the past. We are here because of how we got here.

In body film stabilisation was not practical at the time of film, so stabilisation was added to lenses. Canon introduced the first interchangeable lens with IS in 1995. It was specifically to address slow shutter speeds due small apertures at the tele end of zoom lenses. As it added to cost and design complexity, it was only to those lenses where it was most useful. As Canon moved to digital, they didn't need to address stabilisation again because it was already taken care of by the lenses.

Much later in the day, Olympus developed the fantastic 5 axis IBIS (which spread to Sony) and Pentax it's SR. Panasonic and Fuji went for lens based IS, but Panasonic is now changing too.

Canon had the least reason to adapt, but the benefits are evident for all to see so adapt they will. And, probably, like most things Canon, in their own time but done well.

Jan 21, 2017
Greg7579
Greg7579

I loved that phone. I held onto it to the bitter end. Last month, I finally turned it in and bought the new Google Pixel XL. Man I miss that stylus. The Note 7 was the best phone on the market in my opinion. Too bad so many of them blew up. I turned mine in because they literally made me do it. The Google Pixel is nice, but I miss that Note 7. I also managed to talk my wife out updating her IPhone to the IPhone 7, and she got the Pixel also.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Jan 18, 2017
Josh Leavitt
Josh Leavitt

Too bad they'll never release a model called: Samsung Inferno

Jan 18, 2017
Kai Griffin

So it wasn't Pokémon Go, after all.

Jan 18, 2017
Zdman

Just to repeat a point I made below. This is faulty logic "Considering Samsung was using several battery suppliers for the Note 7 it seems unlikely that batteries were the sole problem in the scenario." Actually if it was one supplier who was supplying bad batteries and all the affected phones used that battery it would make prefect sense. In fact having several suppliers makes it more likely its the battery not less. It probably took Samsung that amount of time to match battery supplier with phone.

Jan 18, 2017
Entropy512

It wasn't one supplier.

Remember the first round of recalls that was supposed to fix the problem? That was them recalling devices with one particular battery vendor.

Devices kept on catching fire - ones with batteries from a different vendor.

My suspiction, consistent with the claims of one engineering firm - they issued specifications to vendors for a battery with dimensions that proved to be impossible to manufacture so that it remained safe.

Jan 18, 2017
Mike FL

Interesting company:

"Samsung chief questioned behind closed doors in arrest warrant hearing"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-politics-idUSKBN1512Y7

Jan 18, 2017
tko

Always, always blame a sub-vendor. After all, it couldn't possibly be your fault.

Jan 18, 2017
tom42

Takata battery co.

Jan 19, 2017
wetsleet

"Samsung investigation blames battery for Galaxy Note 7 fires"

So now they've used that one up, what headline will DPR run when Samsung actually publishes their investigation?

Jan 17, 2017
Eric Hensel
Eric Hensel

Here comes the forum engineering wing...

Jan 17, 2017
BigBen08

Then fix the battery and bring back the Note 7.

Jan 17, 2017
zuikowesty
zuikowesty

And go back to a removable battery like my Note 4, so they can fix the issue without canning the entire product. After 3 years, the Note 4 camera still compares very well, and the battery life is still great, plus I can replace it if I need to.

Jan 18, 2017
alanpuzey
alanpuzey

Absolutely! I would say the same about my Note 4; a great phone. I didn't need to change it, but after handling a Note 7, I was going to get one of those, until the fires broke out.

Jan 19, 2017
BigBen08

I also came close to buying the Note 7. The Note 5 is still available but it's a bit expensive.
I ended up buying the LG Stylo 2 Plus. Has a stylus for note taking, 5.7 inch screen, 2900mAh replaceable battery, micro SD card up to 200GB, finger print reader, and NFC. Sells for $240.

Drawbacks (well, for some)...a 1280x720 display - pixel density 258 ppi.
Not the brightest screen, and the laser AF feature has been removed. Also the gpu isn't cutting edge. But game playing has decent frame rates. Gets above average reviews on the net.

Jan 20, 2017
srados

My note 4 highlights. Removable battery, removable SD card.Internal 64 gigs+128gigsSD card memory, and stylus...Camera kick ass still hold good.

Jan 22, 2017
grasscatcher

I heard that the reason for the fires was because a non-Apple cable was used. ;)

Jan 17, 2017
Mike FL

Samsung will sue APPLE if the fire is due to "Apple cable was used".

APPLE is lucky this time.

Jan 17, 2017
grasscatcher

As I've said before, they need parallel pipelines to allow faster battery charging without overheating. There is a need to separate the battery packs, but their output can be rejoined via software, or dedicate one battery to GUI, one to everything else.

Jan 17, 2017
cosinaphile

thanks samsung ..... we thought it was the screen

Jan 17, 2017
Mike FL

May be it is true that the screen heats up the already over heated battery, then the battery explored.

BUT, Samsung will not tell DPR for PR b/c Samsung makes the screen.

Jan 17, 2017*
cosinaphile

i was joking ... suggesting it was anything but the battery which was the component that actually exploded and or caught fire

but perhaps you are correct

Jan 17, 2017
Heuristix

Who would have guessed it? I really thought it might be the motherboard or the CPU.

Jan 17, 2017*
Mike FL

Samsung will not tell DPR for PR b/c Samsung makes motherboard or the CPU.

Jan 17, 2017
SRT201
SRT201

This is just supposition on my part, but I think part of this may be due to the notion that charge time should be a selling feature for phones, tablets, etc.

First, it's important to understand that Lithium batteries are subject to a phenomena called "thermal runaway". Simply put, once the battery reaches a critical temperature it will continue on the path to it's destruction. In order to stop Lithium cells from reaching thermal runaway, their chemistry is tamed and you end up with Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries. These batteries have reduced energy density, but they are safer.

...

See part 2 below

Jan 17, 2017*
SRT201
SRT201

Runtime AND charge time are now selling points so the device OEM's are constantly trying to balance energy density and charge time. There are a couple possible problems here. In order to increase energy density and thus runtime, the battery design may specify a battery chemistry that is not as stable so even multiple vendors can still be a problem. Now combine that with the ever-impatient consumer (idiot) who wants their gizmos to charge in 15 seconds. New fast-charging technologies are in use that ramp charging voltage beyond the standard USB spec. 5V during the charge cycle in order to rapidly recharge the cells. Some of these system are ramping charge voltage up to 20V! Never mind the fact that this gets the battery closer to it's critical temperature during charging or that this extra heat will decrease battery life-span. The consumer wants something and the marketeers are happy to force the stupid design requirement on the engineering staff.

...

see part 3 below

Jan 17, 2017*
SRT201
SRT201

Yes, these are my opinions, but skepticism and concern over some of these new techniques is shared by others.

http://lifehacker.com/google-engineer-warns-against-phones-with-both-usb-c-an-1772442622

I can tell you that after witnessing just how hot my new HTC phone got with it's "Quick Charge" charger I decided to NEVER AGAIN use the factory charger. I went back to a good quality 5V, 2A charger that charges the battery in a reasonable time and at a much cooler temperature.

Did pushed battery chemistry or fast charge rates have anything to do with the Note 7 disaster? Only Samsung can say. I'm just using my EE background to form a hypothesis. Regardless, I can tell you that I do not and will not use the new fast charge systems on my devices. I want them to charge safely and I want maximum battery life-span out of them.

One last point, taking this and other events into account my advice is to NEVER EVER leave a lithium battery charging unattended.

Jan 17, 2017*
NetMage

Given that some phones caught fire while not being charged, thermal
runaway due to fast charging is unlikely to be the culprit. Unless the battery retains heat for hours and was heated under use, in which case the problem would more likely be inadequate thermal dissipation.

Jan 17, 2017
SRT201
SRT201

I would agree, residual heating would be very unlikely as a culprit.

I just spent time on the charging issue because that is a scenario where the battery is purposely pushed closer to critical limits. You can also push your battery by simply running CPU hungry apps like games that heat up the main CPU cores and the GPU thus pulling heavier current loads through the battery and heating it up in an environment that is now already heated up due to the chipset activity.

Jan 17, 2017
Zdman

Posted to wrong thread.

Jan 18, 2017*
SRT201
Jan 18, 2017
Zdman

You can edit your post after posting so can't delete it so I changed it to that.

Jan 20, 2017
fatdeeman

"It can't be the battery because there's more than one supplier" great circular logic from the resident tech experts!

Chances are it was the specification the batteries were made to that was the problem, energy density too high and/or the charge current excessive.

Most lithium batteries are recommended to be charged at a rate of 1c but many phones now exceed this as the demand for faster charging increases. Sometimes this is achieved by pulse charging which varies the charge rate between high and low simply because the cells cannot tolerate the higher rate continuously. The biggest issue is the technology is being pushed right to the limits and in this case possibly beyond!

Jan 17, 2017*
iAPX
iAPX

As Apollo 11 witnessed, a bug or an error might be in the documentation or specifications.

In this case it's highly probable, as well as a lack of proper testing, both totally due to Samsung's desire to go to market too fast!

Jan 17, 2017
HowaboutRAW

f: ""It can't be the battery because there's more than one supplier" great circular logic from the resident tech experts!"

And that's not what the DPR article says. Also the quotation you made up is not an example of circular logic, it's an example of an arbitrarily close system of thinking.

Jan 17, 2017
Zdman

A few points of logic. It could be the battery if all the phones that caught fire used the same battery supplier. In fact having multiple suppliers would make this easier to trace. So this is the exact opposite of DpR's faulty logic. Second. Not all the affected phones where charging when this happened so I doubt its a charging issue. If it were the charger they would have all been plugged in when catching fire (logic again).

Jan 18, 2017
HowaboutRAW

Zdman:

How is DPR's logic faulty? DPR's point was mischaracterized by the OP.

DPR doesn't rule out it being ultimately the battery, but with some other factor contributing.

Jan 18, 2017
maximumeffort

It seems pretty obvious to me that the OP is referring to people commenting and not DPR, hence the cynical phrase "resident tech experts"

A brief browse of the comments shows many people are literally saying it can't be the batteries because they are made by more than one sub contractor.

"And that's not what the DPR article says" And that's not what fatdeeman said so you're berating someone for something they haven't even done....

Jan 18, 2017*
HowaboutRAW

maximumeffort,

Then FD needs to make that clear.

Jan 19, 2017
maximumeffort

It was very clear to me on the basis that he WASN'T quoting DPR and WAS quoting the comment section.

I'm not sure how you can read a quote that didn't come from DPR and assume that the person is mis quoting DPR. Even if you haven't read the comments I fail to understand how could intuitively come to that conclusion.

Something that WILL muddy waters is incorrect assumptions.

Jan 19, 2017
HowaboutRAW

ME:

Yes, and you could making an incorrect assumption too.

It's easy to see how the OP could be referring to the DPR article, there are other comments that misquote the DPR conclusion. Did you not read them? It sure looks like you didn't.

And again, with "closed" fully spelled out: The OP's quotation is not an example of circular logic, it's an example of an enforced closed system.

Jan 19, 2017
Boky

Shame, I loved that phone... Will be waiting for the next Note. Hopefully it will come with a miniature fire extinguisher:) in place of a stylus.

Jan 17, 2017
Yxa
Yxa

Isn't a battery hardware?

Jan 17, 2017
belle100
belle100

So ALL of the "several battery suppliers" are to be blamed for causing this "commotion". How come Note 7 is the only phone causing all these fires reported on this magnitude. Is it because of its uniqueness? I hope they can address that super natural phenomenon in their official report.

What a blatant lie to try to cover up the incompetence.

Jan 17, 2017
Mark K
Mark K

This is very sad and an irresponsible conclusion

Jan 17, 2017
Mike FL

"Is it because of its uniqueness?" yes. b/c "Note 7 is the only phone causing all these fires reported on this magnitude".

In terms of uniqueness, yes, Samsung may be the ONLY company who has the guts to briber President of South Korea successfully as I mentioned early:

"Head of Samsung faces arrest in presidential corruption scandal
Lee Jae-yong accused of bribery, embezzlement, and perjury"

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/south-korean-prosecutors-seek-arrest-of-head-of-samsung-in-corruption-scandal/

Jan 17, 2017*
iAPX
iAPX

+1 belle100 and I expected that answer, for cultural reasons: Samsung could not be responsible, Samsung's upper-management doesn't make errors, third-party is the natural source of the troubles, even when it's Samsung SDI!

When you supply a product, you are fully responsible for any part of it, wether you actually produce it, you buy already existing parts, or as in this case you buy them from others companies on your specifications.

Too fast. Too much. Not enough testing. Failure recipe!

Jan 17, 2017*
Entropy512

Having dealt with Samsung fuckups in the past (defective eMMC firmware in the I9100, I777, and N7000 that they continued shipping for months after Google informed them of the defect and they fixed the eMMC chips in Galaxy Nexus units with a firmware change) - that's typical. They'll blame anyone but themselves for their screw-ups.

As to the corruption of Samsung's current executives - no surprise given the corruption track record of their predecessor.

Jan 18, 2017
Haim Hadar

Would be fun to work in the group that tries to replicate the problem - "Samsung Corp of engineers"!

Jan 17, 2017
junk1

If only batteries from certain supplier(s) failed, that would point towards the batteries. But if all of them failed, then it's likely something else.

Jan 17, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

Depends on the specs you demanded from the external supplies for the batteries. If there was, as some suggest, an unforeseen problem when the batteries expanded it could still be the battery problem, but the responsibility may have been those specs.

Jan 17, 2017
junk1

I'm not saying one way or the other, there is no way to know if all suppliers had battery issues based on this article is all I'm saying.

Jan 17, 2017
Alex Permit
Alex Permit

Samsung asked too much of its battery suppliers. Tried to squeeze ten pounds of s**t in a five pound bag.

Jan 17, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

There are good technical reasons (thermal runaway) why this is a potential danger of all lithium batteries.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/01/economist-explains-19

https://phys.org/news/2016-10-troy-wolverton-lithium-battery-dangers.html

Jan 17, 2017
Robert Zanatta

Samsung made its own batteries.

Jan 17, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

Samsung SDI is an affiliate company with its own stock listing and has been since at least the 1990s. In fact it was the order for batteries from them that Samsung itself cancelled first. It makes phone parts and batteries for many companies, including Apple.

"Samsung SDI was listed as an Apple supplier in the U.S. company’s suppliers’ list for 2016. Samsung SDI declined to comment when asked whether it currently supplies batteries to Apple.

However, batteries from more than one supplier, including TDK , had problems.

Jan 17, 2017*
Jeff Peterman
Jeff Peterman

If the problem is a flaw in the battery design, it wouldn't matter who made them. A design that is too intolerant of flexing, for example (which could happen from the normal heating/cooling of the battery in use) could cause a runaway current flow and lead to temperatures high enough to ignite the plastics.

Jan 17, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

There is a worsening problem in lithium batteries as we demand they get smaller and more powerful. And we DO. Look at the bellyaching about battery life or size on every review here.

The chances of thermal runaway increase. Samsung, according to internal sources, tried to push the envelope too hard.

It amused me that people were highlighting the early restrictions on putting Note 7s in your hold baggage when flying, because every airline I fly on has been telling you not to do that for years now, as most photographers or videomakers know. Airlines know that ALL Lithium Ion batteries are a fire risk in this regard. They have not been singling out any one manufacturer. Not on long haul international flights. maybe it is different in the US.

That danger, and the world's depleting supplies of lithium, are making the search for replacements pretty urgent.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air

Jan 17, 2017*
Jeff Peterman
Jeff Peterman

The rule for flying is that LOOSE batteries must be in the carry on, but that batteries connected inside a device may be packed in checked bags - this is the international rule, and what I have encountered flying in the US, Europe, Asia, and Australia. The primary concern is that the battery contacts could short out if the battery was in a checked bag, and that this is not an issue if the battery is installed in a device that is safely turned off.

Jan 17, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

Pity. It was a great phone and I hated having to trade it in.

I gave up on iPhones two generations ago.

Jan 17, 2017
Jeff Peterman
Jeff Peterman

I loved my Note 3, and my Note 5. I was looking forward to switching to a Note 8 at the end of this year. With all the bad press on the Note 7, there is a good chance that there won't be a Note 8.

Jan 17, 2017
onemoremile

So, Samsung is saying that the battery is not hardware?

Jan 16, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

It is not THEIR hardware. Although one of the companies that made the battery still bears the Samsung name it is now a spin-off company.

Jan 17, 2017
onemoremile

Samsung specified the batteries, bought them and installed them in Samsung phones. That makes the batteries Samsung hardware.

Feb 4, 2017
(unknown member)

"Everything we have is Chinese made, it's a little bit cheezy, but it's...it's...well it's REALLY cheezy!"

Jan 16, 2017
Mike FL

... So do most, if not all, smart phones, tablets, PCs, and ALL the APPLEs are made in China.

Most of them are not fire.

Jan 16, 2017
(unknown member)

Or contain lead, or short-circuit on A/C lines or have electrical wire that breaks because it's copper-coated steel now instead of pure copper. Yes, everything from China isn't like that, just too many things.

Jan 16, 2017
Mike FL

"Yes, everything from China isn't like that, just too many things.".

Right, soon everything will be made in USA as we will put high or very high tax on all import.

Take a look how things made in China first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlSHo61nRWw

Jan 16, 2017*
junk1

Samsung is Korean though, right? Just is assembled in China.

Jan 17, 2017
redseer

The Note 7 was made in Korea. But this problem has nothing to do where it was made. It's bad battery design.

Jan 17, 2017
(unknown member)

Sometime down the road the design and flaw will filter out. Despite the usual corporate attempts to bury it.

Jan 17, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

My Charvel guitar is made in China and it is the best instrument I have owned. Even my die hard Gibson/Fender/made in USA friend was impressed. The quality of the instrument is just superb.

The point is the Chinese can produce top quality goods.

Jan 17, 2017
(unknown member)

Not really. They can produce "decent quality" if you pay enough, like anyone else. True, a guitar that is decent and costs $1000 from China would cost $1500-$2000 if made in the West (latest estimate is a cost increase of $100 or so if a $600 iphone was made in the U.S.) but they don't make "top quality" in any field I'm familiar with.

Jan 18, 2017
wetsleet

Samsung should just have consulted some of the experts here, saved themselves a load of bother trying to work out the cause.

Jan 16, 2017*
(unknown member)

Too late for them anyway. They lost the phone, hurt their markets and lost billions of $$$.

Jan 16, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

Factually they turned a very good profit for the year despite the problem.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/6/14188390/samsung-q4-2016-profits-guidance-increase-earnings

Jan 17, 2017
PhotoUniverse

No kidding!

Jan 16, 2017
cosinaphile

samsung is run by fools... the battery issue ....poor testing leading to failures in washing machines , and n abandoning the nx line when it was just gaining notice for its excellent sensor..... what a shame they didnt at least try to rebrand it by licensing a legacy name like so many lenses have done , ive never liked the ring of the samsung name its a clumsy word and does not scream quality

nikon makes the same blunder with the coolpix moniker , just a silly name or fuji excellence diminished with the stupid name finepix

they are not all bad i think panasonic using lumix name was a smart move

Jan 16, 2017*
GaryJP
GaryJP

"samsung is run by fools."

Like Canon and Nikon.

Sadly, that's what happens when all the real experts are too busy posting to DPReview.

Jan 17, 2017*
cosinaphile

gee gary no , i was quick to judge them,fires was just a bit of bad luck it couldn't possibly have been their fault or the result of case design that compromised battery housing integrity& crappy poorly sourced battery suppliers..thanks for bringing me to my senses here as well..
as far as the nx, praised for its excellence by almost every reviewer,well consumers knew it was a new system .if you bought 3000 dollars worth of equipment they abandoned the system of?.consumers need to understand samsung owed them nothingfor investing in their system..i suppose its like buying a drone from a crowd-sourced tech group . if you never get a product , lose 899 its your own damn fault for believing in the impossible..samsungs a perfect company run by great execs, consumers need to stop having opinions about them ...about trump,,,, about politics about anything but being a subservient consumer with eyes ears and mouth covered , like those cute monkeys ....i stand corrected ......cheers

Jan 17, 2017*
cosinaphile

gary as someone who posts here and therefore is a "real" expert as you say , im keen to know what you think...... beyond bellyaching about my posts

ready .....set .... go!!!!...........

cheers

Jan 17, 2017*
GaryJP
GaryJP

We can all have our views. Whether that justifies us in considering those who actually DO the job cretins is something else entirely.

As someone said once: "It's such a pity all the people who REALLY know how to run the country are driving taxis or cutting hair."

Jan 17, 2017
cosinaphile

a quore i find comforting by americas greatest author

"I am at heart a propagandist, a tremendous hater, a tiresome nag, complacently positive that there is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise."

gore vidal

Jan 17, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@GaryJP I enjoyed your comment, and you're probably right!

Jan 17, 2017
cosinaphile

wye do you bother,,, elswhere youve declared your devotion to donald trump from across the pond ...

. if course if you lived in america your colleagues would be politically ignorant white trash or other gullible know nothings who admire glowing orange egomaniacs or the occasional Hillary hater [ of which i an one]..
i cannot judge you except thru your words , but . i would guess you might have a shrine to the vile blot on your societys modern history Margret Thatcher who once declared to the horror of all thinking men " there is no such thing as society" to justify stealing milk from hungry schoolchildren and other tidbits as she dismantled your country to enrich her fellow parasites in the banker class

have a nice day

Jan 17, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@arsinaphile, a little touchy aren't we? Forgotten to take your meds?

I said, and I quote "I quite like Donald" and that is quite far removed from "devotion". I really think you need a dictionary.

I was never a supporter of that Witch Thatcher at least she was the only one with the balls to sort out those argies.

My guess is that your irascible petulance is only due to the fact you are about to be royally screwed by Trump and you know it.

I am just going to sit here on my little island and watch it all fall apart.

Enjoy!

PS. I thank God I DON'T live in america.

Jan 17, 2017
cosinaphile

first you declare ...."im not a supported of thatcher" ,,,,, next line ....." at least she had the balls to. bla bla bla...." my my my ,,,,,keep telling yourself you werent a supporter of her policies .....

are you sure its me who misplaced my meds????

yes we are fxxked here in america by trump.....very good....

but that you will gleefully watch the screwing of my society and seem happy about it... with a stupid smile on your face im sure... tells me exactly the type of person you are .....

and a closet Thacherite ..... the worst type of closeted person your nation suffered thru , but not the most common

cheers

Jan 17, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@cosinaphile, you have to stop being so bi-polar. Thatcher was the worst thing to happen to Britain since Hitler. But she wasn't ALL bad. Having the balls to sanction the recovery of the Falklands is at least some redemption. Despite being appalled by her policies I can at least give credit where its due.

You read too much into things. Get back on those meds

I never said I am going to watch Trump destroy your country gleefully or happily. I never mentioned any emotion. You really are in a bad mood. Better make an appointment with, what do you americans call them, ah, your shrink. You are delusional and have a furtive imagination that is obviously divorced from any semblance of reality. What is the term for that, ah, paranoid schizophrenic.

I will watch from my little island as it's all going to go breasts topside on your side. Your working class will find themselves minus health care, welfare and jobs. You desperately need workers rights and free healthcare, come and join the EU.

Jan 17, 2017
cosinaphile

you said ".....you are about to be royally screwed by Trump and you know it.
I am just going to sit here on my little island and watch it all fall apart.
Enjoy!", i see your point you are obviously saddened and somber about it .... my mistake .
afa psychriatry is concerned, its a bunch of crap, i have never advocated anyone seeing the services of that pseudo science, however, reading your
musings and endless hypocracy concerning your closeted fascists leanings has caused me to reevaluate my thinking .

thacher destroyed your nation & caused endless pain & loss of living standard of the working class & poor, she dismantled industry ,&paved the way for the orwellian state you now live in ,,but you think she wasnt all bad because she attacked the falklands ? your right wing loonie in denial.and lack balance
26000 served there, 237 uk military died
1335 veterans of that war died since 1982
95 of those were suicides
you have the same simple mind as a trump supporter in the usa.

Jan 17, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@cosinaphile Oh dear, you are rather neurotic as well. Take a pill and calm down.

I have no problem with being a closet fascist at least I'll be on the white side come the actual Orwellian state. You are right about Thatcher. British industry had been in decline for some time, she just killed it. Then proceeded to sell state owned business to the people who already owned it. We survived Hitler, we survived Thatcher, we survived Bush/Blair and we will survive Trump/May.

I do feel sorry for the working class, they are just to intellectually challenged to realise their thraldom.

The next few years are going to be very interesting and I hope the lower echelons of american societal strata do not bear the brunt of Trump's failure.

You should do well to concentrate on therapy, namely, making pictures and art. It is actually very good. The picture of the dogs in the car, in particular, is just really superb.

Theresa May the Force be with you!

Jan 18, 2017
cosinaphile

what you think is therapy ,,, drawing and taking photographs , for instance i simply think of as life ... i urge you the same peace .... im happy you see something in my work .... i do too so , thank you....

you do seem somewhat obsessed with the chemo aspect of psychiatry and psychiatry in general , but i would urge you to never go down that path
... im my years of restoring decorative art painting and photography , ive known many of the moneyed class and seen their children , they are almost without exception in therapy and on mind numbing pharmaceuticals that i think effectively prevents feeling the banality of their existence ..their children are especially painfulto see on Ritalin and other mind altering drugs,,little zombies

you say your society will survive the latest fascist assault but neither yours or mine will... it a long slow slide to totalitarianism that will crush the souls and freedom of rich and poor when only one type of thought is permissible from all.

Jan 18, 2017*
cosinaphile

sorry ,, ive gotta quote you from above .....
you say:
"I have no problem with being a closet fascist at least I'll be on the white side come the actual Orwellian state"

i think you may have delivered the most telling, honest and horrific post ive ever read in a forum .... seriously .... i had to read it twice just to be sure ...

enjoy you cctv.... i guess ....

Jan 18, 2017
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@cosinaphile, I am sure you'll get over it. Have a happy life!

Jan 19, 2017
cosinaphile

you too ....ill get over any challenge before me as always .... but ill never get over that comment you made above ..... it will always stand unique ...

its like something out of a 1930s german newsreel[ without an actual orwell reference which is temporally impossible ]

cheers

Jan 19, 2017*
Wye Photography
Wye Photography

@cosinaphile, I'm just going back to my High Castle and await the apocalypse.

Sieg...

Jan 19, 2017
cosinaphile

you the man.....

Jan 19, 2017
Mike FL

Today, the last thing Samsung has to be warred about is battery, but:

"Head of Samsung faces arrest in presidential corruption scandal
Lee Jae-yong accused of bribery, embezzlement, and perjury.

RON AMADEO - 1/16/2017, 12:31 PM"

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/south-korean-prosecutors-seek-arrest-of-head-of-samsung-in-corruption-scandal/

Again, above is today's news.

Jan 16, 2017*
D200_4me
D200_4me

Thanks, Captain Obvious (Samsung). As if it wasn't already known... ;-)
Liking my iPhone 7 Plus :-)

Jan 16, 2017
Steve Balcombe

Maybe a problem with the specification for the battery, rather than the batteries themselves. That would explain why batteries from multiple suppliers were 'at fault'.

Jan 16, 2017
jrn145

Batteries normally expand during usage, and in the Note 7, there wasn't quite enough room for this.

Of course, the solution would have been a smaller battery, but that would have decreased battery life. I think that is why they had to scrap the device.

Jan 16, 2017
Alex Permit
Alex Permit

The Note 7's manufacturing defect affects less than 0.01 percent of all Note 7 handsets sold. Some quick back-of-the-envelope math, and you're potentially looking at fewer than 1,000 defective phones. Not acceptable, but it points to an issue of agressive tolerances.

Jan 17, 2017
KodaChrome25
KodaChrome25

Washing machines have batteries?

Jan 16, 2017
arra

Good one, but in fact my fridge have one (small, but it keeps temp settings when power outage occurs) :)

Jan 16, 2017
mmarian

What I find most disappointing in situation like this is the utter disregard for a common sense and even more so for basic intelligence of readers and consumers. And even sadder is that they probably pay big money to the spin doctors who try to tell us with a straight face that water is not wet. But than again I am not even surprised anymore...

Jan 16, 2017
photofan1986
photofan1986

Is it any different in politics ?

Jan 16, 2017
Rogtuf

If you charge a Lithium battery too much or too fast, IT WILL CATCH FIRE. It doesn't take 100 engineers to work that out. It will be a charging (read software) issue primarily.

Jan 16, 2017
jrn145

The issue with the Note 7 had nothing to do with charging.

Jan 16, 2017
Lan

In other news, water is found to be wet...

Jan 16, 2017
HowaboutRAW

The last two sentences of the DPR article: "Considering Samsung was using several battery suppliers for the Note 7 it seems unlikely that batteries were the sole problem in the scenario. So, we are hoping to be provided with some more detail once the official report is released."

In other words, different battery suppliers suggests it was not simply a battery thing, however it could be that some other factor lead to fires in various batteries.

Jan 16, 2017
LensBeginner
LensBeginner

...or the fact that they recalled the faulty Note 7, and the units in which the issue had supposedly been corrected started exploding as well...

Jan 16, 2017
junk1

But who says each/every battery supplier had issues? The articles does not say that.

Jan 17, 2017
Mister Joseph

Shame. Note7 and VW TDI Sportwagen were nice products.

Jan 16, 2017
Mike FL

"blames battery" while the fact is battery burning.

What's the logic?
1. Are Samsung run by 10 years old?
2. Samsung run by guys with IQ=10 years old?
3. Who buy Samsung story has 10 years old IQ?
4. All of above.

Take you pick.

Jan 16, 2017*
Thematic
Thematic

Its just how they are trying to avoid lawsuits.

Remember Samsung claimed (got caught lying) new Note 7s without the issue were being imported to countries (all had the issue - nothing new about them).

Jan 16, 2017
GaryJP
GaryJP

No. Samsung initially believed the problem lay with batteries that had only been used in phones sold in certain countries .

Jan 17, 2017
Thematic
Thematic

Suuuuuure they did. You believe that? Samsung is filled with corruption unlike any company in the world. They were buying time and working with their lawyers. Simple as that.

"Considering Samsung was using several battery suppliers for the Note 7 it seems unlikely that batteries were the sole problem in the scenario. So, we are hoping to be provided with some more detail once the official report is released."

Jan 17, 2017*
GaryJP
GaryJP

Oh don't talk nonsense. It was quite possible to follow the development of this issue as it happened if you followed the tech press. And it's unwise to assume people with no connection with the company somehow know better. Particularly before the report has even been seen. A major problem was that sporadic faults quite often are not easy to provoke or test under laboratory conditions and Samsung simply could not blow up their own phones

Compared with other companies, like Fuji, that I have dealt with (who have taken up to 18 months to even ADMIT an issue) this was a pretty fast handling of the situation.

In my experience every company has the odd ethics free person working for it. Even Apple.

Jan 17, 2017
NetMage

Though I don't think it would be unreasonable to believe Samsung management forced a quick conclusion from their engineers the first time around and some were willing to guess when they didn't know the true source of the issue.

Jan 17, 2017
Mssimo
Mssimo

I heard the battery was too large and it did not allow area for normal expansion and could be punctured by metal divider above battery in certain situations. Some speculate the rush to release the product due to competition (iphone 7 launching a month or two later).

Jan 16, 2017
jskrill

It's simple they are trying to recharge the batteries to quickly which causes the batteries to over heat and some even to ignite.

Jan 16, 2017
HowaboutRAW

Are fast recharging times new to Samsung gear with this smartphone?

Jan 16, 2017
NetMage

Explain how phones not being charged also caught fire?

Jan 17, 2017
sh10453
sh10453

Samsung is having more trouble ...

South Korea prosecutor seeks arrest of Samsung chief for bribery

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-politics-idUSKBN150079

Jan 16, 2017
HowaboutRAW

Likely the guy who killed the NX camera system too.

Jan 16, 2017
sh10453
sh10453

If it is him who did it, then they should lock him up for a long time :-)

Jan 16, 2017
HowaboutRAW

I've been told it was the former head of Samsung who liked photography and wanted a camera division+sensors, he seems to have understood that Samsung wasn't going to make any money from this division any time soon.

But someone new came in and said every division must make money every year.
This is that someone new.

Jan 16, 2017
sh10453
sh10453

That's possible. I don't know the facts.

Jan 16, 2017
andyyau

"were not caused by faults in hardware or software, but by the devices' batteries"
Batteries are not hardware? Samsung you are genius. lol

Jan 16, 2017*
sh10453
sh10453

They meant their own hardware.
Batteries are not theirs; they are provided by other suppliers.

Jan 16, 2017
Scorehound_ca

Samsung is based in Korea. That photo shows a battery made in China. They buy the batteries from a supplier and stick the Samsung label on it.

Jan 16, 2017
andyyau

The Note7 batteries were made by Samsung SDI, and ATL owned by TDK. Both of them are in China.

Jan 16, 2017
Mssimo
Mssimo

Its a samsung battery; they are trying to play the PR game for damage control reasons.

Jan 16, 2017
CE3

Even if it wasn't a Samsung battery, it's the phone they pieced together (made of components they chose), and rushed to the market without enough quality control and oversight to detect this issue.

Jan 17, 2017
Lee Jay

140 phones out of 2.5 million burned. That's one in almost 18,000 or 0.0056% of the total. That's a very, very hard type of problem to detect.

Jan 17, 2017
CE3

Yes, if those numbers are correct, it was a very small percentage. But the phone was recalled shortly after release, so we'll never really know how widespread the issue was.. and batteries were still burning up in some of the initial replacement devices they sent out before completely recalling the Note 7 altogether.

Jan 17, 2017*
spbStan
spbStan

I know 2 people who kept their Note S7 and report the battery does get warm with repaid charging but love the phone. I have the Note 4 and recently got a S7 for my GF who had always been a iPhone user. She really likes the camera and display being better. We have a lot of Samsung products like a MFP, hi-res computer monitor, vacuum cleaner, 2 laptops and none have ever failed to work as promised.
They obviously have excellent engineering, if they say it is the battery design or manufacturing I would tend to believe them because their track record with us has been excellent. As an electronic engineer myself, I am impressed with their designs.

Jan 17, 2017