New Fujifilm X-T30 firmware aims to reduce Q.Menu button sensitivity

Update from Fuji UK:

Thank you for contacting Fujifilm UK,

Unfortunately, there is no further news on any update as yet.

Jun 19, 2019permalink

Well someone posted this link in the Fuji forum
https://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/x/xt30/index.html

Makes you wonder what planet Fuji UK are on??? :)

Jun 20, 2019permalink

https://youtu.be/njdwR73JHrw

Another user who find the firmware did not fix the Q button issue :(

Who in the fuji design team decided this was a good place to put the button. I am at the point of downgrading back to a X-T20

May 8, 2019permalink

dj_nme

Perhaps the next model will either have the Q Menu button recessed (or a ridge put all the way around it) or moved it to some less "dangerous" place on the camera?

Apr 22, 2019permalink

munn1

I have a X100f & I'd sure like the Q button a whole lot more if it was on the other side of the camera!

Apr 22, 2019permalink

BillMassNBPT ILC

While I don't understand why the QM button was put there either, I give Fuji credit for listening and responding to alleviate the issue. No camera is perfect but at least they show they listen and try to do something about it..

Apr 21, 2019permalink

Eugene CH

Correct. However:
I would say that the problem is that no one at Fuji has seriously tested the camera. Otherwise they would have discovered that the button is misplaced. At least, we hope now that future tests for future devices (and not on virtual computer models as I suppose) will really be done!
Then, concerning Fuji's idea "This planned update also allows the user to disable the Q button", I would say that it is not acceptable although inevitable. That means if something doesn't work, we'll disable buttons or other mechanisms?! We pay for a camera, all of whose artifacts must function as such.
(I don't own an X-T30, it's about principles)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

May 11, 2019permalink

GoodKnight

What a brainless place to put the stupid button.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

sirhawkeye64

IMO, the placement of the Q button is just bad design, and no firmware will fix that. On the XT2 for example, it's a smaller button near the screen so it's not even on the grip area at all. I know they probably thought this was a good idea so that a person could access the Q menu with their thumb and probably while still holding the camera to their eye, but it's also located in an area where it can easily be pressed on accident.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Mattersburger

by accident

Apr 19, 2019permalink

redtailboas

...

Apr 22, 2019*permalink

dr jim

Mattersburger, Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm an old fart and that makes me crazy!!!

Apr 23, 2019permalink

Mr Moo

Sorry, Fuji...the long press does not fix the issue on my copy of the X-T30, I still get many accidental presses. I agree with others who suggest a double press instead.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Frankinidaho

Or a menu item to let the user set it for something like NORMAL, LONG PRESS, DOUBLE PRESS, OFF. I think that would be pretty easy for the Fuji engineers to implement in a firmware update.

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

maniquet

I agree but I think of a Lensmate thumbrest that will probably solve the problem.

Apr 20, 2019permalink

https://www.youtube.com/upload

May 8, 2019permalink

Rob890

While your on that Fuji can the X-E3 get focus stacking and fix to turn off the LED when putting the camera in timer mode?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Rob890

While your on that Fuji can the X-E3 get focus stacking and fix to turn off the LED when putting the camera in timer mode?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

TheWhiteDog

Odd that this happened in the first case, the placement of the "Q" button and the joystick controller on my X-E3 is perfect(though it would be nice if the joystick was bigger/different design) so, since the cameras are so similar in design and size, why didn't they place them in the same location on the X-T30?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

digifan

Correct, The X-T30 has the worst ergonomics of almost any available camera right now.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

io_bg

The X-E3 is a bit wider and its screen is closer to the left edge of the camera due to the lack of an articulation mechanism. Therefore the X-E3 has some more space for buttons and dials.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

MichailK

Emphatic message to Fujifilm design team:
Please google “Because caucasians are just too damn tall”.
These people are your main target group. Do space the buttons properly for them.
Thanks for your time.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Duncan M

This is one of the biggest quirks about Fujifilm cameras.
The buttons are too small to handle well and Back Button Focus is nearly impossible to do properly.

Also that Q-Menu should be able to display all camera options. It is now mostly aimed at JPEG shooters and really doesn't make sense for those that prefer to shoot RAW. This Q-Menu is useless for more advanced photographers.

It is one of the reasons why I left Fujifilm.
They are not professional enough to be used in a commercial environment.

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

jonby

Yes I got the same feeling when using the X100T. Of the 16 default options on the X-T30 Q screen, 7 of them only really concern jpeg. You can change the options available though. Which things would you have liked to have available that weren't?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

PF511

The Fuji buttons seem fine to me. They're not too small or too large. Also, I have zero problem with back button focus on Fuji cameras. If the Q menu displayed every option, what would be the point of having it and a regular menu button? I'm not sure what you mean by "not professional enough," but good for you for finding something that works for you.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

sirhawkeye64

Isn't the Q menu customizable? I know on my XT2 I can put things like timer, ISO (although not needed because I have a dial for that), and other more advanced features on the Q menu. Maybe Fuji changed this in newer version of their cameras but I seem to remember on mine, you can put quick links to almost all major settings on the camera (at least that pertain to shoot video/stills, and various image quality and picture control settings) via the Q menu.

I mainly use mine to control the self-timer (turn it on and off) and a few other minor controls that I use frequently, but most of the other controls on the XT2 at least are on the camera as dedicated buttons or dials.

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

ikaika777

@Duncan M, then why do professionals use Fujifilm cameras is in commercial environments? 🤔

May 7, 2019permalink

Kalin

Did they also announce the demotion of the individual who signed off on the blindingly idiotic placement?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

dr.noise

What about the testers?

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Fly18

What's with Fuji and buttons. I hated my old X-T1 because of the mushy buttons.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

xeppelin

sounds like a lame fix that comes very late.

should have been totally obvious to any professional UI designer, that a button in this prominent location is very prone to accidental activation. abd on cameras with retro user interface like fuji's with all sorts of mono-functional dials, having to dive into a "Q.menu" should be an infrequent necessity anyways that certainly should not be assigned to one if the most prominently placed buttons. design team totally off-track, obviously.

and why not make every button and physical control element (dials, wheels, ) on a digital camera freely user-assignable from the very start?

greatly prefer Canon UI, not on all cameras, but on most they get things quite right.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Duncan M

Except for that idiotic touchbar Canon is now using in the EOS RP.

It is beyond me why they did away with the wheel.
Which was one of the best design features I loved about my 5D MKIII.

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

marc petzold

Personally, i do hate this "Thumbwheel", which is a mess, from Canon.
But being used to it, since my EOS 10D, up to the 50D, also 5D Original.
I can work with it - but i do really prefer just an ordinary scroll wheel onto the backside of the body, like every other brand.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

PF511

"sounds like a lame fix that comes very late."

The camera was released to the public 30 days ago. What would your expectation on the timeliness of a firmware fix to be? Can you give an example of another camera vendor who fixed a firmware issue in a time you would define as not "very late?"

Apr 19, 2019permalink

xeppelin

that Q.menu button in that prominent location is a major hardware design bug. making the button less responsive in firmware is a band aid/work around at best, not a fix.

in this case 30 days after launch is 30 days too late. the UI problem should have been totally evident to any designer with any brains from the first sketch of the camera control point layout.

and to start with: retro hipster fuji UI with monofunctional hardware control points for all shooting parameters should not need a "menu" button in the most prominent location.

Apr 20, 2019permalink

kiwidad

how many sold anyhow many complaining here? I assume updates take time so perhaps the update was a result of tester feedback. I read every complaint under the sun about this camera. I guess a few are expected when products fly off the shelves (my assumption there)

May 3, 2019permalink

ms18

I wish one update for my X-T20 where the shutter can be prolonged to 15 minutes. Please fuji please.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

double tap within 1 sec problem solved

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Michiel953

Avoiding a problem is usually better than solving a problem.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Tical

Solving a problem is usually better than ignoring a problem.

We have plenty of the latter, very few of the former.
And, BTW, what should Fuji do, in your opinion? Switching from Kaizen to Karakiri?

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

humans and their technology are complex systems rife with the possibility of unplanned undesired behavior

fujis placement of that button was a problem waiting to happen im sure .... such is the fallibility of design by committee ..... im glad fuji is addressing this

and this is done in a time frame other camera owners can only dream of.... heck most camera companies would roll out the fix in a subsequent model

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Michiel953

Tical: I have no deep feelings on what Fuji should do, but I've always felt their reputation for constantly improving their products to be highly overrated. In many instances it's correcting faults that shouldn't have been there in the first place, like in this case.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Tical

@Michiel953
Duly noted.
I'm the owner of an industrial company working in the editorial/graphic field: we *always* try to do our best. Perfectly? Not always, but we cherish our customers' feedback.
I'm sure you yourself, though, in your very life, are perfect in every way.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Ribbit74

How about the same update for X100F? It’s such a common problem that you pretty much are required to get a thumb grip attached to the hot shoe in order to avoid it.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

exactopposite

This varies by person. I have had the X100F for over a year now and I don't ever recall pressing the Q button by accident.

Apr 20, 2019permalink

VictorTrasvina

@exactopposite
I think I did hit it by accident once, but to be fair I was somewhat nervous under the circumstances, so yeah I agree.

May 4, 2019permalink

Thermidor

Fuji gets a lot of things right with their cameras, but handling and ergonomics aren't among them. When they do place buttons at the right locations, the buttons themselves are poorly designed. Take the XT1/2/3 bodies. The AF and AE lock buttons can be repurposed to become a back button for AF-On, but the buttons themselves are tiny and mushy, so it's not even fun to use the camera that way. Would it honestly kill Fuji to give a nice, big dedicated AF-On button?

And don't get me started on the X-Pro 2's ergonomics. It's a big, heavy camera with an awful grip (even with an external grip) and even worse ISO dial. I liked the image quality and hybrid viewfinder, but after a year I sold it off and went back to the X-T1 which was a much better camera to hold for extended shoots.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

zzzxtreme

how you liking the xt1?
used is like $400 very tempting

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Thermidor

I actually used the X-T1 before I went up to the Pro 2. A year later I sold off the Pro 2 and went back to the X-T1. So to put quite simply, I like the X-T1 a lot.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Fly18

@Thermidor

Totally agreed on your first post.

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

Tical

>And don't get me started on the X-Pro 2's ergonomics

I'm perfectly happy with mine, I wouldn't change a single bit of it: YMMV.

And, heavy? :-))
Don't get me started on the EOS 1DsIII...

Apr 19, 2019*permalink

NicoPPC

Button on the xt3 has been actually improved compare to xt2.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Duncan M

I think X-Pro2 is a fine camera too.
I just do not like the way Fujifilm puts buttons on their cameras.
It is like you said in your first post. They are horribly placed and you are unable to work pleasantly with BBF.

It is one of the reasons why I left Fujifilm.
They just can't to seem to get it right.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Thermidor

@Tical @Duncan M
I like the X-Pro 2 as a casual street photography camera when mounted with prime lenses. But as a workhorse when I start using zooms, the X-Pro 2 is not a great experience. The EVF magnification is tiny compared with even the XT-20, and the external grip adds nearly 200 grams to the camera body, making nearly as heavy as my Nikon D750 body which is a full frame that has much better ergonomics. And that stupid ISO dial was a huge step backwards from the X-Pro 1 where you could just press a button and turn the dial. It made rapid changes impossible, and ultimately I decided to just sell off the camera and go back to the X-T1.

I really wish Fuji would get the back button focus right, because they're also the only brand that lets you set a back button AF-On and still use the shutter button half press to focus if you wanted to. It's a simple and elegant solution that other brands really should replicate instead of forcing you to one or the other.

Apr 22, 2019*permalink

tkbslc

Any one that has ever held a camera can tell in one glance that was going to be a problematic button placement.

Apr 18, 2019permalink

pretty sure a few told ya so's came up at their design dept

Apr 19, 2019permalink

mxx

I wonder if a double press would not have been better than a slow reaction time for the Q-button?

Apr 18, 2019permalink

i see my above comment and yours are the same brilliant idea ;)

Apr 19, 2019permalink

jonby

Yes I was wondering the same thing. I hate waiting for long-presses. Also, wasn't long-press used to customise the Q screen items? Presume you wouldn't be able to do this any more if they make a long-press the thing which activates the screen.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

mxx

"makes the button slower to reaction to being pressed"

Does not sound right.

Apr 18, 2019permalink

MichailK

Obviously Fujifilm must set up a prototype evaluation unit consisting of 5 ladies and 5 gentlemen with very different hand-palm-finger proportions giving their lengthy evaluation of prototypes before going into production - I have a hunch the current testers are of the smallish thumb size hence this Q mishap.

Apr 18, 2019*permalink

Pretty sure they are all thirteen year old girls. Those cameras are very hard to hold without pressing things.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

MichailK

Just rememebered: “Because caucasians are just too damn tall” - do google it! Now, it is a case where the main target buying group are those caucasians, hence the button placement mishaps...

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Pretty sure Asian teenage girls would have trouble with the placement too.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Lettermanian

Please bring disabling or two-press function to the X-H1, Fuji.

Apr 18, 2019permalink

Frankinidaho

It's already there. You can disable it and lock the action from within the menu.

Apr 18, 2019permalink

Lettermanian

Thank you, found it in the menu and locked it. Next time I'll double-check before I post... :0

Apr 19, 2019permalink

Peter_Birch

Blind Freddie could see this button was in the wrong place. At least Fuji have sort of acknowledged this by providing a quick solution. But, they are going to allow the user, in the next update to re-purpose that button. What? How can you make a button in the way, useful? If you accidently hit it, bugger comes up in the viewfinder?

Apr 18, 2019permalink

zakaria

Fujifilm I like your gear but my advice to you is:
Learn from pentax how to place the camera buttons well.

Apr 18, 2019permalink

Panasonic are another one who are putting things in the right spot and differentiating them by feel and form to the dictates of function.

Apr 19, 2019permalink

GRUBERND

but then Panasonic uses the same button layout but assigns the functions differently for the main actions through their different µ43 cameras. very annoying to use two of them side-by-side.
i am looking at you, <Play> <Delete> and <Display> buttons. :rolleyes:

Apr 19, 2019permalink