Instagram users are risking their health for images at Spain's toxic Monte Neme lake

I meant to write Educated monkeys with the Educated in "".

No, we are not monkeys, we are humans and have the unique capacity by design to be gods by grace. What a lot of us are doing, instead, is absolutely tragic. Not everyone believes in the divine but everyone believes in perfection. Well, there's no perfection without meaning; since Plato, many centuries ago, we are aware of it. This "selfie" concept is deeply disturbing in oh so many ways. Tragic...

“The mine was in use for WWI and given the relationship between Spain and Germany during WWII it is somewhat unlikely it was run by the Nazis.”
Oh, you mean the “relationship” that led Franco to even send them troops?

I live here and it is a well known fact. Whether you think further discussion is pointless or not has no bearing upon your lack of knowledge. Read this:
https://www.eldiario.es/galicia/Casaio-secretos-wolframio-empresa-Galicia_0_863713751.html

@Barty L - It seems like you sort of not appreciating sarcasm.

@Haim Hadar - if the OP intended to be humorous it would classify as irony. So you are correct in that at least one of us doesn't appreciate sarcasm.

I think we reached the top with the initial comment.

There really is so much wrong with the inital comment.

Do we teach them how wrong and in which ways or is it not possible to penetrate the narcissistic and misguided barrier surrounding them.

Please explain what wrong with my comment? What I say is true.
Just because these pics are being taken with a smartphone camera?
Even if he intent of the photo is for self promotion it still doesn’t disqualify it from being art and everything else about these pictures are defined by artistic expression.

If this is Art so everything is art, even me farting on a cliff wearing a rainbow flamingo lifesaver losing my life.

They go there because it’s beautiful, not because it’s dangerous. They go there to produce beautiful images of them in a place so they can share it with others. Since when has the added benefit of self promotion disqualified it as being art? There is a whole genre of art, Pop art, that is full of self promotional intent.

I don’t know how anyone can say “the majority of this or that” when they obviously do not even do surface search on Instagram.

Sorry but you’re wrong, and have no idea what you’re talking about. You actually sound like some camera elitist who gauges art based on traditional rules of form. I don’t have time for people that close their mind to all of the creative possibilities that are ours for the taking.

“It requires intent”
How can you say what the real intent is of each of these people? Art is about expression and that’s what they are doing expressing themselves via an artistic medium.

You can argue that a fashion photography is being told to take photos of models but that doesn’t disqualify it as art. A wildlife photography is told to capture images of a polar bear and in doing so it doesn’t discount the artistic merit. These people are composing themselves, they are modeling and also hitting the shutter button. Many will post process to make it to their personal liking. This is the artistic process. It’s art and you not liking it doesn’t make it not art. Just a preference.

@thenoilif
Can we speak for the individual that posts a selfie? No. But we can, taking a look at the platform used, Instagram, the nature of the photo, the selfie, and speak for the collective of people doing so. Can't remember who said it but the idea that 'art exists for it's own sake' doesn't sit well with me but it's an interpretation. I prefer to think of art as 'the simplification of the subjective'. The better it simplifies ideas and concepts the better it is, regardless of whether someone likes it or not. A love song could be about love, a love, or a specific relationship. A better love song is all three. Intent is required, beyond any skill or concept for it to be art. Instagram has a real currency in likes and followers. Selfies in their very nature are self centered. It's not hard to believe that a good proportion of influencers intent is on likes. Not but not all. And if you're that stupid you're probably just chasing instant gratification

Like i said, maybe it wasnt worth trying to teach.

@thenoilif ,You are blinded by trying to stand up for yourself, someone or something.

Adding bunny ears and contrast doesnt make something art. And i dont care what art is anyways since its such a subjective term. Peanut butter on a spoon is art yeah? Maybe.

Ethos matters, those people only want the selfie for a Like. Their purpose is not a redeemable human quality. Dont talk about art anymore because it doesnt mean anything in this subject.

It should be simple enough for you to understand what i wrote up top. Since it is logic based and correct.

"And I don't care what art is anyway since its such a subjective term. "

If you don't care what art is then why are you so desperately trying to discount the artistic merit of someone's creative expression?

"Their purpose is not a redeemable human quality"
Now, this is quite a subjective thing. I get it now, you're just being a hater. My guess is you have a general dislike of Millennials since you just copy and pasting the whole narcissistic stereotype.

Here's some reality. It's not narcissism. It's communication. The photograph has gone from being a rendering of a moment in time to a main form of communication. Both are still art by the way. We now use photos for mass communication and when it comes to social currency, communication has always been the foundation of that. The image has become more popular than words when we socialize with one another. The photographer's dream has come true. Every photo now has more significant value therefor the photographer is being pushed to increase that value with every capture. This includes risking their lives.

It's poetic and poetry is art.

Its amazing how wrong you can be about this.

Nothing poetic, artistic about it. Not remotely.

Art is subjective which is why i was smart enough to not argue it since this point was easily done without. You on the other hand are claiming for a fact in many ways how this is art. See how you are the one arguing improperly.

Nice leap to assuming i dislike an entire generation of people. Well done, you are wrong again.

No matter how nice you try to make it sound, it isnt.

It is exactly how i stated first post. Very simple. I understand you, i am afraid you wont see the facts though being blinded as i said just above.

You are really going out of your way and just plain way out there to defend these people.

Next you will claim how noble they are risking their lives for the same trendy selfie everyone else must have.

@thenoilif
There might be something to the point about it being a form of communication, but I don't think that the term 'art' and 'communication' are interchangeable regardless of how expressive it is. The burden lies with the representative to claim that the work is art. No such requirement is needed for expression or communication

On top of their being an obvious biased against smartphones, smartphone photography, and Millennials I am also seeing a fundamental misunderstanding of what art is.

The broad definition of art is the personal expression of ideas, beauty, and/or emotions via a medium. This is not subjective, only progressive. What is subjective is the quality of the expression and intent.

I believe the confusion derives from the concept of fine art where people place a specific idea of art based on value. Money, skill, level of creativity, etc. are all used to classify the worth of artworks but they are not defining the validity of art, regardless of what critics try to use to validate their opinions.

Technology has turned all of this on its head as it has removed a large amount of one of the traditional defining characteristics of art, mastery of technical skill. And while this may affect the 'fine-ness' of art, it doesn't redefine art as a whole. It also upsets a lot of the traditionalists who bought into the inflation of the exclusivity of fine art.

You are delusional and self serving.

This is your reply?

"On top of their being an obvious biased against smartphones, smartphone photography, and Millennials I am also seeing a fundamental misunderstanding of what art is."

It doesnt matter what art is. It isnt what these people are doing either way.

Thank you god of art.

Ran out of logic eh. Didnt take long.

I suggest you save your big art lectures for something that isnt "trendy selfies." You may fare better.

Not at all.

I just see that I’m debating with someone who sees things in their lowest form, the all too common internet cynic who is unable to be objective because they allow their hate to cloud their judgement. Also, talking to people who can’t stop contradicting themselves ends up becoming a futile attempt at level-headed discourse.

Lastly, name calling and poor attempts at being an internet psychologist
make your logic about as trustworthy as the reality presented in the photos that you so passionately demean. But again, art is often fantastical.

Did you happen to see these photos or do you just copy/paste this blather into every forum?

My hate, art is often fantastical? Quite the poet arnt you. Who cares about logic as long as you are a poet yeah. You can never be wrong when you are a poet.

This is your logic:

Narcissistic intent disqualifies artistry. Yeah, then you mine as well disqualify many of the greatest artists who have ever lived.

You said you don't care what art is, it's subjective, but then you say infallibly that this isn't art. So you do care and you actually don't think it's subjective.

Lastly, you try to actually apply logic to art. Granted it's your logic and as we've seen you're actually not very logical, but none the less, art is meant to defy logic. But I can see how someone who depends so much on logic would want to place limits on art. Luckily for you, expressing your illogical logic can be art. Oh and look, you even got some likes for some of your logic. You just might get this whole art thing after all.

Definition of art didnt need to be brought into the discussion is what i said and implied. It wasnt necessary in order to disqualify your post.

If you dont say art 1000 times a day does something bad happen to you?

You just like to hear yourself speak and have an agenda. As if you teach kids art and must defend this at all costs no matter how wrong you are.

Not a single person agrees with you here. It is not because of smart phones, Millennials, or misunderstanding of art. It is because you are wrong.

They gave up bothering to talk to you. And me, the one that assumed correctly post1 that it was probably not worth bothering with you is the only one bothering still.

If i take a selfie of myself at a F1 race, it is not art. If it is art, then the snapshot i just took off my deck is art also, and a photo of peanut butter on a spoon is God-like artistic.

Trendy selfies are trendy selfies. You want to call it art. Good for you.

@steveanderson

1 person agreed and around 4 disagreed. Hardly everyone on here. There’s that logic at work again. Also, this is not exactly a site that draws in the artistic values of photography so the responses are not surprising.

One of the most famous modern artists blacked out and flicked different colors of paint on canvas and it’s classified as art. Another took a simple picture of an indiscernible section of a river and became a legend. Both chose to express themselves in ways that were unknown to people at the time and they were met with the same close minded attitude that you’re projecting here. Thankfully people like me exist with the perspective that art is fluid.

This is ridiculous: "Thankfully people like me exist with the perspective that art is fluid."

Few posts now about how special and precious you are. How lucky are we to have someone defending trendy selfies in the name of art! Why do you need this so badly? I am not going to let you win. I am far better equipped than you to see this through.

Everything is art(except for the guy that blacked out and flicked paint) and we have so special you to thank.

You are single minded. I am quite fair and open minded. Your agenda is to qualify trendy selfies as art. I already told you "good for you". Who cares. Did you enjoy my peanut butter on a spoon photo? You must its art right? Thanks for defending my fragile ego.

The fact is that these people are not doing it for art sake. You are dense dude. Its the same as your blacked out guy, these people are also blacked out. If they happen to get a great shot, it's by accident. The point of their taking those photos is for Likes. The people trying to create art, are.

This is the difference that you cant understand somehow.

All the trendy selfie takers and you are special but I am not? Well done. Swing and a miss, again.

Everything we say, think, or do is art. The words i chose to express my thoughts in this post is art. They way I walk out to my car is special, artistic even.

BTW i know what you will say next and already have my reply copied and ready to paste. Please think harder before your next post so that i wont just be able to copy/paste a reply.

And they are narcissists?

"I am not going to let you win. I am far better equipped than you to see this through"

"BTW i know what you will say next and already have my reply copied and ready to paste. Please think harder before your next post so that i wont just be able to copy/paste a reply"

Another example of your lack of knowledge about art

"The fact is that these people are not doing it for art sake. You are dense dude. Its the same as your blacked out guy, these people are also blacked out"

That blacked-out guy who flicked paint is Jackson Pollack.
https://www.jackson-pollock.com/action-painting.html

Thank you for being part of my art. I will call it "Social Anger wins but at what cost?" oh wait, it needs to be more abstract, I think a better title is "People Who Need to Win Forum Discussions Are Narcissists".

Nothing of that has anything to do with a lack of knowledge of art, and you arnt answering any of my questions. Do you understand how a proper debate works?

Why would i care who that artist is? Using him only hurt your credibility.

I did not gather that no one here agrees with you from the Like button. You can clearly see it in the room from the replies.

Your original post is that these people are risking their lives for art. We all dis-agree. Then you go on to rant about what art is. Which i said isnt even necessary to debunk your post so who cares what your definition of art is. All still valid points.

The guy in hospital claiming it was worth it was talking about the Likes(not art), not the photo(art).

Doing something stupid in itself is not art.

The way i drive a race car is art. Mashing the throttle blindfold for Likes is not. I am using your definition of art here. For arguments sake.

Get it through your special, precious head. Your last post has nothing to with anything.

So I guess I need to open an Instagram account...

I don't understand why you'd take pleasure in reading about people getting injuried or killed, even when it's caused by their own stupidity or recklessness.

We're assuming that they didn't trespass I guess? If it's contained it might be more cost effective to leave it as is, if wildlife can end up there as well then I think that's the biggest issue here...