Camera FV-5 update brings DNG Raw capture to Android

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124027964@N05/15789762964/

1. "The best camera is the one with you"

2. in-phone JPEG engines are generally cr@ppy. With RAW, you can get _significantly_ better images.

Dec 19, 2014permalink

CBax79

That's what is so pleasantly surprising about the LG G3's JPEG engine. I pulled this out of mine using the stock camera and editing software:

Jan 31, 2015permalink

Matt1645f4

I had this back in august was playing with settings and found dng caputure it works an does improve images but only slightly.

Dec 15, 2014*permalink

WadeMedia

Apple, time to catch up!

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Yup, it's pretty pathetic they still have no RAW support in the new iOS8 API...

Dec 13, 2014permalink

mrkarisma

When will the Galaxy S4, aka the most common android smartphone, get android 5.0 /L?

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Lars Rehm

This will very likely depend on your region and/or carrier (if you have purchased the device through a carrier), you should contact them to find out.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Digital Imaging Technician

"When will the Galaxy S4, aka the most common android smartphone, get android 5.0 /L?"

Given that Samsung are already actively testing Lollipop for the S4 (see http://www.xda-developers.com/android/motorola-samsung-android-5-0-lollipop/ ) and have already released it for some S5 users (see http://www.xda-developers.com/android/official-android-lollipop-samsung-galaxy-s5-poland/ ), it probably arrives in a few days / weeks, at least as a generic firmware.

(Note that, if you're on a carrier-locked device, your carrier may release the FW upgrade considerably later. Then, you may want to opt for using Odin and flashing an official 5.0 FW onto your phone. It won't terminate the Knock fuse and won't even mess up with your CSC code, unless you restore the device. I've did it myself to avoid having to wait for FW version NK4 on my Note4.)

Dec 13, 2014permalink

tompabes2

Ask Samsung!

Dec 14, 2014permalink

I bet FV-5 is based on the L Camera code, because it has exactly the same problem as L Camera with manual focus. There is no infinity focus. If I set the manual focus to the furthest possible it still just focuses a couple of meters a way (or closer than that) and things further away are not in focus at all.

Manual infinity focus could have real potential with camera phones as DOF is crazy. Basically you could set it to infinity and have focus from something quite close to something really distant. The AF on my Nexus 5 always troubles me (hunting) and it's slow as molasses.

Please fix manual infinity focus and I'll buy it (I actually bought it, but refunded because of this)!

Dec 13, 2014*permalink

Jonne Ollakka

Here's a pro tip: Set your focus to infinity with AF, then turn AF off and don't touch focus again, unless you're doing macro. Like you said, phones have crazy DOF and don't need focusing at all for non-macro shots. Everything is in focus all the time. AF is utterly useless on phones and will just make you miss shots.

Dec 15, 2014permalink

5tve

Raw was available on my OnePlus One in October 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op3cMaQPvhY

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Deicide

Cool story bro.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/oneplus-one-1244307/review#articleContent

Is that because the OnePlus One smartphone uses the Cyanogenmod version of Android 4.4?

I’m not seeing a mention of raw in the TechRadar review. It’s a substantial review from less than a month ago, and TechRadar doesn’t like the camera:

Not seeing raw or DNG mentioned on the OnePlus One Wikipedia page; company website being a problem with my slow connection.

Sorry haven’t watched the Youtube video.

Dec 13, 2014*permalink

Managed to get the company website to load, finally, and the page devoted to the camera says nothing about raw/dng.

Now an interweb search of the terms "oneplus one dng" turns up about one hit--something about beta testing in the summer of 2014.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

A friend has the One and I can confirm that it saves DNGs.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

LeeRay

It's not mentioned in some reviews of One Plus 1 because the capability to save to DNG was a new feature after a recent firmware update.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Giklab:

Just to be really clear you mean shoots DNGs, right?

I'd bet it possible to export a jpeg to a DNG after shooting, that would not be shooting DNG.

I know that the capacity is there in Android 4.4, I guess CyanoGenMod allows one to get to that capacity.

It would be nice if OnePlus called attention to this feature.

Good too if Samsung starts offering phones running the CyanoGenMod version of Android.

Dec 13, 2014*permalink

"Just to be really clear you mean shoots DNGs, right?"

Are you seriously asking me that?

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Yes.

Since raw has been claimed for previous phone cameras, but it was "raw" constructed out of jpeg data post capture.

So not raw.

So a perfectly legitimate question if you know the history of these claims regarding raw and camera phones and given your choice of words.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

LeeRay:

Thank you.

Then it's really recent, since that TechRadar review is only a month old.

Dec 13, 2014*permalink

Just don't forget that even JPEG's (not counting in messed-up WB) exported by other apps can be of a much higher-quality source for later PP than OOC JPEG's produced by the stock Camera app.

As third-party camera apps greatly differ in their support for various Android handset models, I recommend checking out them yourself to find the one that indeed applies the least processing and can make use of all features of your model. (For example, on the Note 4, as of 4.4.4, I only know of only one third-party app to be able to use 1/8s shutter speed; all the others can go down to 1/15s or, even worse (as is the case with FV-5), 1/30s only. See my other posts on this problem.)

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Menneisyys:

Interesting point, so far though I've avoided having a smartphone.

Keep waiting for raw, no contract, and assurances that Verizon (big US cell network) isn't tracking my every online move; it was recently disclosed that Verizon was doing exactly that.

Dec 13, 2014*permalink

@HBR I didn't know that. Which phones were that?
I didn't check that, next time when I see them.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

I assume you're referring to the construction of "raws" after capture.

It was app[lication]s adding that kind of "raw capture" to iPhones in the past, I'm sure there were Android versions too.

Sorry I don't remember the name of the application doing that to iPhone jpegs and it was back a few years, so 2011 or 12.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Yeah, that was my question, Sorry, I must have deleted a part of my comment accident. After googling around a bit it seems that the phone saves 10 bit DNGs. However, people have reported that the files seem a bit cooked to them.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Got a link to download those DNGs from?

And if the DNGs are looking cooked that's a big red flag--suggesting possible post capture rawifying.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

Okay, found the jpegs made out dngs and those look really cooked--even at ISO 100.

Still would like a link to full DNGs.

Dec 13, 2014permalink

"Sorry I don't remember the name of the application doing that to iPhone jpegs and it was back a few years, so 2011 or 12."

645 Pro and some other apps too.

Dec 14, 2014permalink

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ow8m8se2sl4rozx/IMG_20141008_075204.dng?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxeqx3ai9ulq4dj/IMG_20141008_075233.dng?dl=0

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3zN929x2utnMG92VG5ZTjQ0ZUE&usp=sharing

There are probably other sources as well.

https://www.google.si/search?q=oneplus+one+raw+images&oq=one&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0l4.1962j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

Dec 14, 2014permalink

Gik,

Thanks for the links.

Dec 14, 2014permalink

Np. How do the files look to you?

Dec 14, 2014permalink

Those look good for bright ISO 500 shots. Hoped to see challenging shadows and say ISO 1000.

Dec 15, 2014permalink

Anyone that would like to try FV-5 on the pre-Lollipop Samsung Note 4: don't do it.

While the best third-party apps like Snap Camera HDR support shutter speeds of as low as 1/8s, the minimal speed of the FV-5 is 1/30s, losing two entire EV's. In addition, the in-app JPEG sharpness setting doesn't seem to do anything: the exported JPEG's are equally sharpened, independent on this setting.

I've posted a lot of test images demonstrating this to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=57169980&postcount=2353

Dec 13, 2014permalink

JordanAT

Don't bother on an LG G3 either. The native camera app - for all it's limitations - is very fast. FV-5 is like walking through cold syrup. Unless you think the 2-3 second shutter lag is a feature. I'd guess it's the QHD display that FV-5 isn't really coded to deal with.

Dec 15, 2014permalink

mrc4nl

its still of limited use, smartphones lack dynamic range.
there is not much you can push.

Dec 12, 2014permalink

Um, ever hear of adjusting white balance after capture?

Then ever hear of not having jpeg artifacts?

Just those two things alone are really helpful if you care about better image quality.

Then come things like overall noise and yes exposure control.

Dec 12, 2014*permalink

Impulses

On the other hand, stock JPEG processing on smartphones is often borderline horrible, specially from OEMs that have little to no imaging experience, so this could help on phones that tend to be let down by the built in processing rather than their hardware.

Dec 12, 2014permalink

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124027964@N05/15789762964/

"On the other hand, stock JPEG processing on smartphones is often borderline horrible, specially from OEMs that have little to no imaging experience, so this could help on phones that tend to be let down by the built in processing rather than their hardware."

Exactly. The prime example of this is the Note 4, which, otherwise, has an excellent camera. Its stock Camera app, however, is plain bad. It applies far too much noise reduction (NR for short) and oversharpening even when it's absolutely unnecessary – for example, in broad daylight. Also, it has rather strong JPEG compression. (The latter, however, is much less an issue than the over-destructiveness of the NR and the sharpening). Unfortunately, you can't in any way configure the NR / sharpening / JPEG compression parameters of the stock client.

Dec 12, 2014permalink

CBax79

I'm actually surprised by the DR of my LG G3, I pulled this image out of it using the stock camera and editor (no RAW):

Jan 31, 2015permalink

nonstndrd

I've had fun experimenting with this on my Nexus 5, the image quality (processed in Lightroom and VSCO) is MUCH better than I anticipated. See here for samples:
http://www.thelosangelesrecordings.com/nexus-5-raw-capture/

Dec 12, 2014*permalink

Lars Rehm

yes, I tried on the Nexus 6 and it's quite amazing how much better detail you get. Unfortunately there's also a lot more noise :)

Dec 12, 2014permalink