Photokina is without question the biggest photography show in the world, and as such, the venue at which manufacturers routinely showcase their biggest and most exciting releases. We were on the ground in Cologne, Germany before the show even began to bring you the most in-depth content we could write on the most important innovations we could find.
But now that Photokina has come and gone, we've had some time to reminisce over everything we saw in and among the development announcements, tech briefings and even just while wandering the halls of the Koelnmesse. So in case you just can’t get enough of Photokina content, come join Richard Butler, Barney Britton, and even cameraman Carey Rose for a few pints and a few thoughts on how this year’s show went.
Here’s a sampling of what you'll find in the video:
Our favorite new cameras we got to try
A discussion on the problem of heat dissipation (which Richard has claimed, quite wrongly, to be the nerdiest thing he’s ever said)
Small sensors versus large sensors
No-compromise third-party lenses
And of course, some continuity errors regarding the quantity of beer glasses moving about on the table
Thanks for following our Photokina 2016 coverage this year! We can't wait to see what Photokina 2018 will bring.
What's even more interesting is that the most significant release by Sony in the past several years aside from the A7R/SII models gets almost no mention. It does get a nod as a 'very capable camera' but it seems that DPR was 'surprised' because they believed A mount was dead. Even with two A mount body releases in the last 6 months, this notion is still being trolled in the comments here. As Mark Twain once said, "the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated."
I'm very impressed by the way beers "magically" appear on the table.......... as soon as a new one arrives, even given the old one is still unfinished, there's already talk of "who's round it is?" This is indeed true photographic dedication. Image stabilization of course suffers throughout the course of the video!
Bang on with the point about 5-axis IBIS of the Olympus.
I initially wanted to replace my E-M1 and 5D Mark III with the Sony a7RII, but realized I'd miss the amazing IBIS of the E-M1 too much (and the touchscreen), so I kept the E-M1 and sold the 5D Mark III.
If I had tried to use just the a7RII, I'd end up having to either having to use post-processing to stabilize all hand-held shots, or carry a cumbersome motorized gimbal (Pilotfly H1+), and neither were as convenient as simply using the E-M1 and then not have to do anything with the recorded videos.
So the a7RII became my studio camera, and the E-M1 my travel/outdoor camera. When the E-M1 Mark II comes, I'll be upgrading for sure.
Because I shoot just as much still photos as I do video, and I don't want to have to carry both a camera and and camcorder when I go out. At home, I have 2 camcorders--one upstairs and one downstairs, so I never miss anything worth recording. The still cameras also split the up and downstairs duties -- the E-M1 stays upstairs, while the a7RII downstairs.
I find Photkina to be a slightly awkward culture rub. The corporates are too corporate and formal, then there are the prima donna demanding 'pro' and 'enthusiasts' alike and then also the artists. All coming from different angles. You can see a good example of this on YouTube when digital rev meet Fuji and annoy the security. It all looks a bit uncomfortable.
Just a couple of blokes have'n a pint, one a bit more clever than the other. But which one? ;) I would have been interested in a viddy that shot the entire conversation at this table leading up to this wrap up. Then we would know their true favorites and not the scripted version intended to appease the overlords. Great Job Guys! :)
In my opinion the most important release was the Canon 5DMark IV, but it seems that the few days of pre-announcement before the photokina doesn't count. At least it counts less than a Panasonic Mockup ;(
Does anyone other than Roger Clark do anything useful on dark current? I do wonder if the 5Dsr might turn out to be more special than people think it is, as the lack of heat-generating crap on the sensor may work out well for astro usage...
Although, yes, it's only two lens mounts, you're right in that it ends up effectively being four formats. And it'll be a first for a major camera maker if all those users end up getting similar levels of commitment.
Hah, yes. I was more concerned with lens support, so was considering two format used in each of two mounts (and ignoring 1", since Sony doesn't currently offer a 1" ILC).
I was thinking in terms of permutations, rather than combinations, since FE lenses don't mount on A-mount cameras (so the full frame format isn't interchangeable) and that FE can mount on E but isn't always optimal for the user.
So, to be precise: Sony is trying to support a four permutations of mount and format.
Sony is the master of confusion. They've blurred the lines between all the lens names and formats and given them product names of biblical proportions. This, after renaming NEX unto the Alpha moniker.
Richard, you and I would have better luck concentrating on the two pints turning into four permutations during the DPR video. Then our lines would be blurred as much as Sony's.
You guys look really tired. Sometimes it is easy to forget how much work goes on in these coverages. From the reporting, it was a truly deserved beer. Well done.
Boy, in a comment of an article abtut the Fuji MF camera, I sad, that this is an ugly camera compared to the other Fuji cameras. Now, every time I see it, it looks better. I really start to like it. Love in the second sight.
I apologize for questioning your veracity, but I'm not willing to just take your word in this case. However, maybe you could persuade me with some pics. ;)
I like it. Just angular enough to not be a shapeless lump and just grippy and functional to be comfortable to use (hopefully). And the controls are immediately familiar to anyone who uses Fuji X.
I'm kidding, I quite like Kolsch, it just becomes a little overwhelming, after hours at Photokina.
That said, I utterly disagree with regards English beer. It could be because it's what I grew up with but there are some British beers that I'd drink in preference to just about any Belgian or German beer, lovely though those can be. Slight problem that you have to drink it on cask, as close to the brewery as is practical.
They probably will at some point, considering the Nocticron was followed by the PL12 f1.4... Tho they do have the PL15 f1.7. I guess the three new PL zooms took precedence, they'll definitely fill out Panasonic's zoom catalog quite nicely...
I do hope either Oly or Pana make a Pro/PL 17 at some point tho. The Oly 17's IQ is inferior to the pancake 20mm's, which has it's own AF quirks, and thus there's basically no 'ideal' 35mm EFL prime despite the gluttony of options M4/3 offers overall.
Anything else in that range is either notably wider (PL15), tighter, or MF... I'd argue Oly should've started there actually, for 25mm we already had two f1.4 alternatives with AF (Sigma and the PL), an f1.7 (Pana), and an f1.8 (Oly).
I guess they figure a 50mm EFL is still popular enough to even out the increased competition at that FL, tho I personally disagree... Even those with means will still eye the f1.4 alternatives (never mind the 3x f0.95 alternatives), a Pro 17 would've stood alone basically.
@Impulses Yeah, Oly likely believes the 50mm field of view is still popular enough to support the ridiculous amount of lenses we already have at that focal length. I get that its popular, even if I have no love for that field of view.
I think the Oly 17 gets a little too much criticism. its close in IQ to the PL15, though I do prefer the PL15 in rendering... but the manual clutch and AF speed of Oly's 17 is really top notch.
Very pertinent comment on heat dissipation. Sean Reid on Reid reviews raised this very issue vis a vis the Sigma sd Quattro. More mass might solve the issue so adding a plate is an option...
"name a fast+accurate contrast AF system that's not Panasonic?" Pansonic don't use contrast-detect but DFD (which is kinda a fake phase-detect + contrast-detect for fine-tuning), however when it comes to mirrorless AF Canon's DPAF is in a different league, and I have a GH4...
Yes, the Canon DPAF sensors have two sensor pixels for every image pixel and use the microlenses above the sensor to turn them all into phase-detect pixels (but unlike other on-sensor phase-detect systems also use them for the image, Sony etc. just fake up their phase-detect pixels data from the surrounding data). DFD uses data about the attached Panasonic lens to guesstimate the correct focus position from the blur in the image. With non-Panasonic lenses it's just contrast-detect at either 120fps or 240fps (but I suspect the latter only works with Panasonic lenses, on top of the DFD.) I thought you knew all this?
Cologne beer is nice but served in silly small pints . Canon's press briefings in the evenings are much better regarding beer and also pleasant food at the Argentine restaurant. Hasta la vista
Yeah, that's because Kölsch (that's how it is called) tastes good when it's fresh, but it gets stale really quick. That is why they serve it in these ridiculously small glasses.
Drinking on the job seems appealing and highly liberating as this video shows. Even Canon can be forgiven for being 2 years late to the party with M5. Well, if you work 24/7, you deserve libation from time to time in order to clear the head LOL.
External temp wouldn't be real relevant to measuring internal temp. Heat dispersion from the electronics is far more important than the particular temp of some spot on the body.
Be kind of interesting to shoot say the Sony A7RII at 4K for 30 minutes, in a controlled environment, stop, pop the lens off and immediately take a temp reading of the sensor surface-- that would really only work with mirrorless bodies, so the Leica SL or Olympus EM1 II would be worth a try, and the Fuji XT2.
The reason for taking the lens off, in the test, is to give a consistent point of measurement.
The heat of the flash card is massively dependent on things like its placement within the body and what surrounds it, and the buffer (RAM) of the computer running the camera.
Such a test, if repeated more than few times under the same circumstances, wouldn't be rubbish at all if it disclosed significant differences in the sensor temp right after use--say sticking with the Leica SL and and the Sony A7RII. (No one is reporting heat issues with the Leica SL and 4K.)
Obviously Hasselblad is concerned about dispersing heat, the comment is in the video above, and Hasselblad has designed the XD1s body to do that. It would be interesting to see if that shows up in the sensor temp, but there's no camera to test against it, fairly, until the new Fuji releases.
Pentax only started using this sensor with the introduction of the 645Z--which I guess is about 2 years old.
It can shoot video, but it's not really a videocentric camera, whereas mirrorless systems can be.
Also the 645Z is much bigger than either the new Fuji or the Hasselblad, so therefore has more ways of getting rid of heat. Wikipedia has a nice sliced through the middle photo of the Pentax demonstrating why it would better control heat than say the Hasselblad.
No, this is not a common sensor, PhaseOne has used it though. I believe it is the first 50MP medium format CMOS type sensor.
2 years may be years, plural, but this sensor has simply not been used in anything like the Hasselblad XD1 or this new Fuji yet. Heat, when shooting video, remains a big question with these bodies. And I see that the XD1 does not shoot 4K, this is likely about heat.
Additionally, you ignored my point about the Leica SL versus the Sony A7RII, when shooting 4K.
Well, in some parts of Germany beer still regarded as food, (Bavarians say that beer is like bread, at least for them) so it´s not too expensive, except on the world´s biggest beer fair, the Munich Oktoberfest, which is on now. Over here a glass is between 2,50 and 5 Euros, depending on the size of the glass and the quality. Hicks...
Tricky that, last time I went to Denmark the Sales guy I went with insisted on trying every type of bitters the bars across from us had (which was an insane number), insisting it would all just go on expenses... On the up side I got to try a lot of bitters... on the down-side he really didn't get to claim it on expenses (I did offer to chip in, but was declined)...
To DPReview: Nice wrap on the show. I think you summed it up nicely. .... As a Nikon fanboy, I'm still in a bit of dazed over their (Nikon's) lack of meaningful presence at the show - they didn't even make the wrap! Admittedly, they gave two us two meaningful cameras this year, but somehow their lack of meaningful presence leaves me dazed and confused. The scuttlebutt says THEY are dazed and confused by the earthshaking, literally, events of late. I just hope this is not foretelling the future. .... Are we seeing Econ 101 being played out yet again? (This time in the camera industry.) Is this simply supply and demand set in motion by the revolution of the smartphone industry? Time will tell, but the feeling in my guy leaves me reaching for the Pepto-Bismol. Cheers! Till the next Photokina.
I love NIkon too, but their presentation was dire, emotionless, pointless; it was like watching your child hash up their slot in the school play - a total slow motion traincrash. They basically launched a metoo Gopro.
Meanwhile, Go Toshi-san! we loved your Steve Jobs tribute.
By the way camera sensors and solar panels are the same but function other ! Camera sensors technology can help solar panels make much more efficient for 1Kw from 1 square meter solar panel !. Panels must have huge crictals not like now pretty small connect together and this is why they losing efficiency !.
Well, what will 2018 bring? Hopefully a tough E-M5 IV with all the goodies from this year, global shutter, fixed 12-100/2.8 and organic and/or stacked sensor ;-) for my UW shooting. Just kiddin ...
That is so funny. We saw that happen in the PC industry for enthusiast PCs. I just can't quite imagine people carry-ing a colostomy bag for cooling. ..... lol ..... lol ... ;-)
Amazing to see how suddenly beers can appear and disappear on the table. You guys can not be blamed for having missed the spirits of the Show at Cologne.
Carey seemed to be the only one drinking proper beer, Barney and Richard appear to be lager drinkers. I just hope it was a least Belgium lager.
After reading that notorious pre-show Canon M5 'I love you coz you're crop' article, I had a suspicion this may have been they sort of venue where the pre-show team orientation meeting had taken place.
Anyway, thanks for the great show coverage guys. Enjoy your beers.
Photokina takes place in Cologne, so it's kölsch all round, whether you like it or not. Carey managed to plead extenuating circumstances, meaning that he was allowed a pilsner.
Way back I worked in IT for a high profile company, I wasn't allowed to use my real name on line because of what I wrote when I had been drinking.
Najinsky was great reacehorse and I liked the name. Turned out it was named after a Russian ballet dancer. Further turned out it was spelled Nijinsky, but the account was already created.
Pretty good overview of the show, thanks for keeping it light but not too light. Will we see a Sony trying to compete with Fuji and Hasselblad in the large format market?
That's an interesting question. Hassy, Phase One and Pentax all use Sony sensors in their latest models (at least the 50mpx ones). So if Sony starts making MF bodies, what percentage of its imaging sensor customers will it cannibalize?
Nah - Sony is not geared towards that market, they don't have the experience and its not where there target audience is. Remember that Fujifilm has been a big player in Medium Format since 1968, providing both lenses and cameras in that market.
Sony is a consumer oriented brand not a photography brand.
EOS M5 does have a certain charm to it. If I was to recommend an all around camera for someone like a soccer mom who doesn't know photography very well and also likes to shoot some video, I'd highly recommend the M5. This is the same customer who will never use anything other than the kit lens and perhaps add a slow telephoto and shoot in Auto all the time. It will likely outsell the next closest competitor 5:1 if not more as this camera will be available at every Costco/Walmart/Target
Is there a better APSC option for The average Joe or Soccer mom? Give them a more capable but menu driven a6300 and an M5 with the smartphone like touch screen autofocus in stills and video and see which one they'll pick. You think the soccer mom is going to care about 4K S-Log recording more than a touch screen? Mabe outsell others 10:1. I would not be supprised if Canon became #1 in Mirrorless sales this time next year as they are already #3 worldwide and weren't even trying
Do soccer moms still buy $1000 ILC? Especially a mirrorless one, when there are PRO looking dslrs for sale at half the price (Rebels). BTW are you related to forum member Donnie G?
I'd argue Panasonic's G80 is just as capable a contender, with a well thought out touch UI as well, and much better lens selection... Plus 4K, sealing, etc. Panasonic marketing in the U.S. is atrocious tho (even by the low standards of other mirrorless players), I wouldn't be surprised if anything (even Oly M4/3 bodies) outsell it 1:5 and the price ends up slashed in half by next summer.
I give it to Canon marketing they know what sells. They looked at Olympus best sellers OMD-EM10(Europe/USA) and EPL7(Asia). M5 looks like a combo of both. They give you a camera that costs double the price of one. I guess they figure your getting two cameras in one you might as well pay double. They just want to slow down the bleeding from mirrorless. Wrong market, Canon T6 double lens kit is $599 at Costco.
You don't see brand new cameras at Costco. Most are at least 6-9 months old before they are on sale there. By that time the M5 with 2 lenses, SD card, camera bag, etc.. will sell for likely $799 after all discounts/rebates. @Impulse, I don't think this customer cares about the vast selection of M4/3 lenses. They will stick to the kit and have no idea what Panasonic is, they just know who Canon is and buy it. Especially after playing with it at the store and realizing it's a breeze to use. I don't think I've seen a lot of Panasonic cameras at these retail stores. @ttran88, The M5 has the DSLR hump so yes to this customer it does look professional. It will be discounted heavily by the time it's on sale at Costco.
Soccer moms is where the money is to make if you want to end the fiscal year in black figures. If the industry was completely depending on DP Review commenter's money there is no DP Review anymore for the lack of camera manufacturers.
Having said that, you don't know how a M5 handles, so what do you know?
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