Optics manufacturer Samyang has released a new lens simulator web app that allows you to see how certain lenses will affect the look of a scene based on sensor size and lens settings.
The web app creates a simulated scene using a cutout portrait of a woman as well as three backgrounds. By changing the sensor size, focal length, aperture and distance, the scene will adjust to show a simulated representation of what the image would like like when the shutter is pressed.
The web app is somewhat rudimentary, but its simulated representations do a good job of showing photography newcomers how crop factors, focal lengths, apertures and the subject’s distance from the lens can impact the look of an image. Samyang also includes an option to select on of its lenses to use as a preset of sorts to see what a given Samyang (also sold under the Rokinon/Bowen brands) lens will produce.
Both Canon and Nikon have lens simulators of their own, so this isn’t exactly an original idea, but it’s yet another option you can try out.
Simplistic, but not a bad effort. DOFsimulator is way more featured and very good on its own terms, but too complex for some. However, even that has some failings. Would be good to have a middle-distance 'layer' so you can get an idea of blur falloff.
I thought that this nonsense was fully explained eons ago—f/2.8 is always f/2.8.
I can use my Sekonic L758 hand-held-incident meter to take a reading. If it says the f/stop is f/2.8, I can set the stop on any camera, from 1" digital to 8x10 film camera and get the correct exposure.
To get a shallow Depth-of-Field, shoot at the minimum focus distance wide open. You will find that even a 14mm lens has a shallow DOF Posted on a DPR forum *"Samyang 14mm has surprisingly good bokeh"* https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50737344
These sorts of tools would be far more useful if the scene was configurable. I think the single subject and infinite background make it a bit too simplistic. Ideally I'd want to be able to set a background distance (a wall, for example), and put at least a couple of subjects at different distances in front of that wall.
But hey, you get what you pay for, and in this case, I can't really complain!
Oh, I'm not complaining. I have a scene setup in my 3D software where I can quickly calculate DoF for any situation, so it's really not important to me.
Good for visualising bokeh, and demonstrates how increasing focal length is often more effective at blurring backgrounds than splashing out on expensive primes.
Doubling the focal length and moving back to twice the distance is equivalent to dropping the f/number two stops. Eg, 85mm at f/1.4 from 5ft delivers the same background blur as 170mm at f/2.8 from 10ft.
@BaldCol ... That's funny. When I put a 12mm lens on my 5DsR I get a rectangular full frame image instead of a square one like that shown in dofsimulator.net. Do you suppose there's something wrong with my lens or camera???
That is exactly the reason why the slider only allows 24mm and entering smaller numbers isn't supported by the slider. The background image isn't large enough for that.
It is possible to manually enter smaller numbers for "expert" users who know what they are doing. The author of the site must have been aware that smaller numbers can be entered manually, because there is an additional check that kicks in when the manually entered number is smaller than 12mm.
"@BaldCol ... That's funny. When I put a 12mm lens on my 5DsR I get a rectangular full frame image instead of a square one like that shown in dofsimulator.net. Do you suppose there's something wrong with my lens or camera???"
If you don't want to use the website how about you just don't use it rather than bitching about its apparent defects and making snide remarks. I had never used it until I saw it mentioned by arjunmehta above. It seems a useful teaching aid to me and I will continue to use it. When you have deisgned a similar tool that goes down to smaller focal lengths in the way you want please share the website and I'll use that as well.
@BaldCol ... Hey, look, my initial post was to point out in response to someone claiming dofsimulator.net was superior that it had some limitations that the Samyang tool doesn't. My additional posts were in response to those saying I was mistaken.
I think this DOF simulator is even older, it allows for even three planes, i.e. a person in focus, another person at the different distance, and a background. For each of the three, a different distance can be set. http://kingfisher.in.coocan.jp/boke2/bokekeisan2e.html
@photonius ... Yes, it certainly looks older, but IMO it's superior to either of the two previously discussed apps. Thanks for putting it up on this discussion.
I wonder who can/should take credit for creating it.
@landscaper1. Well, the person who most likely created it seems to be the owner of the kingfisher web site http://kingfisher.in.coocan.jp/English/index.html The site is mostly in Japanese, but it seems to be a person with interest in photography and the kingfisher bird. I hope it stays up, it doesn't look like there is much recent activity.
If you set it at 10mm and slide the distance to 25m, the model flies in to the sky and becomes Mary Poppins! I feel this calculator is not very accurate.
I saw the simulator when looking at the new 35mm and found it to be... jarring. Probably ok for beginners, but others have referenced better tools than this. Ok for a first attempt I guess?
Have to agree with Gannon Burgett, does "a good job of showing photography newcomers how crop factors, focal lengths, apertures and the subject’s distance from the lens can impact the look of an image." It's a nice way for Samyang to get their stable of lenses introduced. Build on this very good beginning, it's worth the effort.
Worst app ever. Not only is the functionality limited, switching between formats doesn't change the DoF either. And that's not to mention the poor subject and background images and overall look.
Switching formats does not change DOF. It changes the recorded angle of view. Otherwise cropping an image in postproduction would change the DOF .. now that would be something cool.
Fixed output size does not mean anything in this case. Whether you crop or not, this is only the enlargement that makes out of focus regions look less sharp... But as soon as you step back, they get sharp again. That's why enlargement is NEVER taken into account when speaking about DOF. If it was, then the DOF scale on a lens would be meaningless...
This at least applies to image-space DOF, which is the “traditional” approach to DOF (including DOF scales). I suspect you might be talking about object space instead?
Agree with what spider-mario has said. In other words: Cropping (switching formats) does not change the image inside crop area in any way. But since DOF is an agreement of allowed "blurriness" of the image, it does change when cropping, whether done by format change or cropping the image afterwards. Lens DOF scales are based on maximum circle of confusion being about 1/1200 of the image width. Depending on what the final image size and viewing distance are, it may be a good or bad assumption. If you use a full frame lens in an m4/3 camera, the DOF scale is not correct. Since the image dimensions are cut to half, the max CoC must be halved too, which means that the scale marks for f/4 now correspond f/8. The same happens if you crop (and enlarge) the image in post.
30 likes for GRUBERND's erroneous comment. It's 2020, you'd think people would have this figured out by now! We're still going to be debating this in 2030, aren't we...
its a pity thier is not an option to keep the framing the same with different focal lengths ..then folk will be surprised that focal length has little bearing on DOF
DOF is only dependant on camera-object distance, f-stop, and projection size (sensor + enlargement). Focal length doesn't change DOF at all, it has been proven over and over again.
If by that you mean changing the distance to the subject proportionally as the focal length is changed (ie doubling or halving both) then yes, I agree - there is no change in the depth of field. At any rate, I wasn’t responding to you.
@biggercountry .. because they used a simplified formula by putting parts of the projection relations into their "focal length" factor.
In casual photography with the usual lenses this works most of the time, but it is not the general optical principle behind it. Especially since what is marketed as "focal length" is in really the "effective focal length", meaning that number is just an approximation of one characteristics of an optical system.
Disclaimer: I'm not an optical engineer, but I did all the math back in photoschool when we had a big fight with a teacher about this topic and we were able to prove him wrong. Science is a b****.
Not accurate. It only changes the background blur, but with shallow DOF the subject may have out of focus areas, too (nose tip vs eyes vs hair). This fact is completely ignored by the simulator.
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