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Now reading: Lensrentals proposes 'Roger's Law of Wide Zoom Relativity' 65 comments

Lensrentals proposes 'Roger's Law of Wide Zoom Relativity'

Published Mar 31, 2017 | Barney Britton

Trippy stuff - this is MTF data from nine copies of the Canon EF 16-35mm F2.8L II, at 16mm. Nice and sharp in the center, less so at the edges. That said, all nine of these lenses test as 'good' samples.

Arch lens nerd Roger Cicala has probably handled more lenses this week than an average photographer might use in a lifetime. And recently, he's been busy testing multiple copies of several popular wideangle zooms to try and prove what he calls 'Roger’s Law of Wide Zoom Relativity'.

Simply stated, Roger's 'law' states that wideangle zoom lenses are virtually always sharpest at the wide end of their zoom range, softening as the lens is zoomed. Although many of us have often wondered whether this is the case, Roger's exhaustive testing proves that it holds true over multiple copies of several modern lens designs, all the way from Nikon's 14-24mm F2.8 to Canon's stunning new 16-35mm F2.8L III.

Averaged MFT charts for nine copies of Nikon's 24-70mm F2.8VR on the left, and data from the older 27-70mm F2.8 on the right. Advances in lens design are obvious from increased sharpness and better consistency across the zoom range.

What does this mean for the average enthusiast photographer? Just that if you're the kind of shopper that obsessively tests and returns lenses which aren't up to your requirements (cough, cough - Rishi...) you can save a lot of time by only testing the long end.

Also of interest is just how good some modern lens designs are. Compared to its predecessor, the new Canon 16-35mm F2.8L III's MTF charts are extraordinary. Likewise Nikon's 24-70mm F2.8 VR, compared to the lens it replaced.

Thanks as always, Roger, for testing nine copies of everything so that we don't have to.

Read Roger Cicala's full blog post at LensRentals.com

Tags: lensrentals

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Victor Engel

I suggest a corollary that expands to all zooms. A zoom is likely to be sharpest at the zoom setting that is the main target of the lens. For super wide angle lenses, that would be the wide end. For telephoto lenses like the Canon 100-400 zoom, it would be the long end. People don't generally buy that lens for the 100mm end. If my corollary holds true, then a jack-of-all-trades zoom like the 70-200 zoom is likely to be sharpest in the middle of the range.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

MikeFairbanks

Zooms stink for image quality. They are made for convenience. I use both zooms and primes, but the difference in quality is significant. A cheap prime out performs an expensive zoom.

Apr 2, 2017permalink

Azathothh

Zooms are not all about convenience. They are the best option for getting the better framing. And yes you can zoom with your feet but that changes perspective. If you want to get the best framing you get a zoom lens. If you want the best image quality you get a prime. But you can't have both, unless you are very lucky the best framing is the one with that specific focal length of that prime lens you have.
Like you, i have both zoom and prime lenses.

Apr 2, 2017*permalink

MikeFairbanks

You're right, of course. Part of my thought process is just wishful thinking.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

PK24X36NOW

If you said that in 1972 maybe, but modern zooms are quite good, and the difference is not what it once was. Plus, unless you find yourself in the miraculously fortunate position of having the exact framing you want from the exact perspective you want with a fixed focal length lens, you generally are going to be stuck with "shoot wider than necessary and crop," and cropping reduces your image quality, thereby further reducing the already small difference.

Apr 5, 2017permalink

paul simon king

Rubbish

Plenty of examples on the-digital-picture disprove that.

Apr 11, 2017*permalink

AbrasiveReducer

Well yes, the new Canon 16-35/2.8 is terrific, period. But OTOH, it's two predecessors weren't that great. You could also say that whatever replaces the 17-40 will be a huge improvement.

Apr 2, 2017permalink

tonywong

The 16-35/4 IS is a good replacement for the 17-40.

Apr 2, 2017permalink

MyReality

Almost everything is relative: Both lenses were good enough for a lot of pros. I still use the 17-40 a lot as a general lens.

Apr 3, 2017permalink

QuarryCat

not really new for me and very simple...
wide Zooms are best in wide angle
normal Zooms are best in wide angle or middle
Tele-Zooms are best in the middle

No zoom-lens yet is best at the longest end!
That's the problem, if I buy a 11-24 mm or 14-24 mm - I will use it mostly at 11-14 mm - so no problem.
But if I buy a 2.8/70-200 mm - it will only be best at 135 mm - and it looses at 200 mm,
Same with 100-400 mm and 150-600 mm pr 200-500 mm pr even 70-300 mm and 200-400 mm - they all are not perfect at longest end!
A 2-8/200 mm or 2.8/300 mm or 4.0/500 mm is by far better, sharper.
But the AF is not as fast, as Canons 70-300 mm mUSM or 100-400 mm L IS II!

Apr 1, 2017permalink

rsjoberg

My Nikon 17-55 f2.8 is softest at 55, whereas my Nikon 12-24 f4 is stunningly sharp at 24. Testing has shown that this is representative of these lenses.

Apr 1, 2017permalink

Tom Schum

Brilliantly creative how you have come up with a way to present difficult data so that it can be immediately understood!
Sample variation is the hardest thing to track but extremely nice to know.

Apr 1, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Well, you can see that from the Canon samples alone even the latest superwide zoom is sharp enough for a modern sensor over only less than half its intended area, so I decided to stay with my 17-35 because it is at least as good . Sample variation,-well illustrated here- is further complicated by the makers REFUSING for DECADES to pack their equipment properly for shipping half way around the globe!!

You have to keep forever precisely aligned how many sheets of glass?? Its like they are unaware of what they are themselves making. ALL camera equipment should come in strong boxes with vast foam cut-out surrounding lens, camera etc..

Years ago when the Post Office relented to allow glass through the post at all they stipulated that there had to be AT LEAST 10cm of protective packing (not plastic airfilled ballons!!) between the ITEM's own box and the wall of the second larger box you must send the goods in.

Fat chance your new mobile is not halved in its lifespan too!!

Mar 31, 2017*permalink

Barney Britton

"Well, you can see that from the Canon samples alone even the latest superwide zoom is sharp enough for a modern sensor over only less than half its intended area"

Can you really see that?

Mar 31, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

Ask a silly question? You can too!! Add the corners it doesn't cover at all to the areas of all the wrong colours and what do you get? Way less than half in most cases. Now go check your very own 5DsR samples as I did when I considered it for purchase, and you'll notice that even stopped down to optimal levels that the lens is only sharp in the middle . Then check the DXOmark review and figures, and you'll notice what I and Rockwell have said for years, that superwide and standard zooms are great for all round usefulness, but hopeless for all round performance. Then go ask a few photographers from Magnum and other reasonably respectable outfits, my peer group, and stop being argumentative and impertinent!!

Apr 1, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

It might be a better idea for you to pressure manufacturers to securely package their cameras and lenses too, instead of sending them out in pouches in cardboard boxes.

Or just cardboard boxes with no packing at all. Or stuck at the top of a box sandwiched against the outer top (most mobiles) when they can be sandwiched inside the middle of a slightly bigger box, in foam.
Nearly as bad as a Macbook Pro!
Could be a way for Dpreview to get some respect here, and help us and WEX and Amazon etc whose returns would embarass anyone.
Because most of those samples were damaged in transit, with only their makers to blame.

Apr 1, 2017permalink

Deliverator

Didn't most reviewers claim Nikon's new 24-70 VR was worse than the old G? Except reviewers like Thom Hogan, who actually took pictures with it, and not test charts at 5 feet, I mean. I wonder what Roger has to say about the new version?

Mar 31, 2017permalink

RCicala

I said it was about equal or perhaps slightly less sharp in the center, but better off axis with less astigmatism than the original version. I called it more 'different' than better or worse. You might give up a tiny bit of center sharpness, but you get a much smoother image with good sharpness right to the edges.

Apr 4, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

What these charts show most is that none of these lenses cover the 35mm format adequately at all, IF, as I must suppose the rectangle they are in represents our 3:2 35mm FF format area. Trippy stuff indeed!!
Nor do they account for the lens aberrations, as the two sample of the 24-70mm Nikkor I bought at full price and had to return, both contrived to give three of everything at the borders-1 red, one normal and one green even at F5.6, so bad you could not use them on film at all.

The 17-35mm Nikkor is only sharp from f5.6-8 @ 17mm, but at 20mm it is sharp at f4. An Exception.
DXO reckon it is best at 35mm @f2.8 but they are going on evenness as on my old sample it is excellent and crisp from around 19mm-28mm, and does not have the aberrations problem noted on the 24-70mm Nikkors I had.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

digiart

I'm in no way an optical expert (far from that), but Roger's conclusion seems obvious to me. When designing a zoom lens you start with the wide setting because the image at the longer settings will be a cropped part of the wide image circle. You can think of a zoom lens has a prime lens having one or more internal teleconverters. So, the (wider) starting point will almost always give the most sharpness!

Zooming action will also tilt lens elements, resulting in uneven sharpness across the frame as the lens is zoomed due to mechanical imprecisions. Of course, this is more obvious with the cheaper zooms.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

pulsar123

I suspect this "new law" is just a reflection of a design constraint used when designing these lenses: it makes a lot of sense to optimize a wide angle zoom performance for the shortest ("most spectacular") FL. Technically it should be as feasible to optimize for the longest FL, but that would be boring I guess...

Mar 31, 2017permalink

FLruckas

This is like taking a music appreciation or film production class...

You never hear music or look at a movie the same way again...

Once you know certain things...you never look at other things the same again.....

There goes that innocence...or ignorance....

Or innocent ignorance...

:-)

I'd rather know....

Maybe we need a new Avenger for Lens Meister Roger....

Special powers of seeing lens data that mere mortals with only one copy of a lens can't see...

I always appreciate his sharing of this information....

Mar 31, 2017permalink

cosinaphile

lens rentals is the best ,,,,, now teardown all 9 lenses!

Mar 31, 2017permalink

(unknown member)

These MTF charts make stunning gallery.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Mariano Pacifico

I've been hearing that today's compact point-and-shoot camera lenses are WAY better than late 70s-early 80s full-frame film SLR lenses. Is it true?

Mar 31, 2017permalink

HRC2016

Shouldn't it be called Roger's theory?

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Ken 101

Roger is stating what happens under a given set of circumstances. This is what a Law does. A Theory attempts to explain why the Law works as it does. There is some speculation as to reasons in the last part of the article (thus a theory about the Law), but other reasons for this behaviour might be suggested (i.e. other Theories for the same Law) such as "the natural perversity of inanimate objects".

Mar 31, 2017permalink

knickerhawk

This was supposed to be some kind of revelation we didn't already know or couldn't easily confirm for ourselves by looking at DXOMark field maps? The problem is that the "rule" seems to apply fairly consistently across wide zooms but things seem to shift toward the middle focal lengths in telezooms. And the notion that one can dispense with testing any focal length other than the "base" one (widest in the case of wide zooms according to Roger), is pretty wacko if the photographer intends to rely on any focal length other than the base one. As Roger admitted in his blog posted, at the longest focal length in the zooms he tested there was not only more softening BUT ALSO MORE VARIATION! If I'm spending my hard earned dollars on a new lens, you can be darn sure that I'm going to check the focal length most likely to be subject to unit variation. Indeed, I'd say it's even MORE important to check that focal length rather than the base one!

Mar 31, 2017permalink

HarryLally

Maybe there's always an exception that proves the rule. My 17-40 f4L gets progressively sharper from 17mm to 40mm and is much sharper at 40mm than wider.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Unsubscribe me please

Could just be faulty? Send it back and ask for one that softens like the others! LOL :)

Mar 31, 2017permalink

sportyaccordy

Same story with me.... no matter how far I stop down the corners never sharpen up.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Deliverator

My Sigma 17-70 is pretty soft at 17mm, sharpens up quickly at 19mm, and stays pretty sharp right up to 70mm.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Brev00

This makes wide primes even more desirable to me. Looking forward to the reviews of the new Sigma 14 1.8. It should be just as good at 14mm as it is at 14mm.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

TN Args

So you would be happier to use the softer end of the zooms, and replace the sharper end with primes?

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Unsubscribe me please

Depends what time it is Brev? :)
I have come to the conclusion that lenses don't see as much after dark, took a while for me to catch on.
HQ Zooms are very useful, however, I don't believe good Primes can be beaten.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Brev00

I am considering the Nikon 24 1.8 as my next lens purchase after recently buying a D610. I have greatly enjoyed my 50 1.8 on my new camera. So, getting the 24 might come before or instead of getting a 15-30 or 14-24 type zoom. I shot with just a 50 on film for 30 years so am enjoying a return to primes. I still like zooms and think my pattern is to either use them a lot at the long end while using my dx wide angle often at its widest fl.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Unsubscribe me please

Hi Brev, ... 30 years on a 50mm, ... Good Man, .. no doubt you have the ability to get the very best from a lens.
I bought the D500 last week and a Nikkor 35mmf1.8.
I'm enjoying the Nikon ftn Photomic with the 50 experience all over again! It's very rewarding.

I still have my 1975 ftn and the 50 lives on my D200 body.
A 24mm f1.8, .. that would be very nice, .. superb low light capture.
The only zooms I take OS is the Sigma 10-20mm and Nikkor 80-400mm. Everything else being primes.
Shoot and Enjoy, ... Cheers

Apr 14, 2017permalink

dialstatic

Roger should be aware that Stigler's Law of Eponomy states that no discovery is ever named after its original discoverer ;-)

Mar 31, 2017permalink

RCicala

Well, what if I claim it was Aaron who discovered it? Do I have a shot then? :-)

Apr 4, 2017permalink

samfan

The old Nikon 18-70 DX was well known for being the weakest at wide end but very good from the middle to the tele end (I know it's not WA but since 24-70 is mentioned here, I guess we're not talking just about WA).

I think a couple of other older Nikon designs were similarly 'reversed'. Since I was getting into the DSLR gear just when 18-70 was the hot stuff, for ages I thought zooms are usually the best at the tele end :)

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Infared

Read that last week. Roger's intellectual ponderings are the best!
This article and the DPR take on "Read this before you buy a Fuji GS 50" could ruin photography for a lot of people!!! LOL!

Mar 31, 2017*permalink

Robert R Stone

What's interesting is that virtually all these wide zooms perform best at the widest focal length. This is great; you buy these lenses for the wide angle performance. But many telephoto zooms do not perform best at the focal length you want, the longest.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

ChrisH37

Makes you wonder why there aren't more wide primes (which would hopefully be cheaper and more compact, particularly if they're not massively fast).

Most buy ultra-wides for the ultra-wide bit, those that want the zoom range still have an amazing range of ultra-wide zooms available.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

samfan

From what I've heard, once you design an ultrawide lens, adding zoom capability is relatively trivial so for the more mainstream manufacturers who make a lot of zooms and electronics it's not worthwhile to just make primes in that range.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Ebrahim Saadawi

Roger, we love you man.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

ManfredGrebler

Unfortunately these tests are wide open only. As a landscape photographer I am much more interested in the results about f8

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Impulses

All the variations and flaws get minimized as you close a lens down, so it'd be a lot less interesting to read about and less useful overall as a data point off which to draw any conclusions. You can extrapolate from what's presented tho, or just know that it all matters a lot less at f8.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

ManfredGrebler

Of course I know that.
Nevertheless there are significant differences at f8 and many (wide angle) lenses do not perform well even at f8 in the corners.

Apr 2, 2017permalink

s1rf4n

Thank you Roger Cicala for taking the time to perform this daunting task. Very good stuff.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Favorable Exponynt

So zooms work just like tele-converters, using a smaller piece of the glass for the frame thus compromising overall sharpness of the frame.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Leonp

Since misalignment seems the worst problem for wide angle zooms I decided to buy my FF24-120F4 in a physical shop with multiple copies available. After half an hour making pics of things in the four corners of the images I hopefully bought the best of three copies. One of the available lenses was clearly worse than the others.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Impulses

If only that opportunity was available to some of us... Camera stores are about as common as alchemist shops here.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Jon555

You got it backwards I'm afraid, it isn't "you can save a lot of time by only testing the wide end" but you should test the long end, as that's where any problems will be much easier to spot, and if the long end is good you should be sorted. Or to quote the article "If you’re going to test your brand new lens, either by taking pictures or using a test chart, test the long end. If the lens is weak, that’s where it will be weakest".

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Barney Britton

Quite right, that was my mistake. Long day yesterday. It's been fixed.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

m i k

One cannot prove a 'law' (hypothesis?) by simply asserting all particular cases empirically. This is the fundamental problem of inductive reasoning. So at best Roger's law proves is a significant correlation. Or just a hunch :-)

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Zdman

Would think it was obvious. A zoom lens essentially magnifies the middle of the field of view so that middle is obviously going to be sharper when it projected over a smaller area than when its stretched. I realise there is more than that going on but from the front elements point of view that is essentially it. The best you can hope for is that the centre is more uniform in sharpness but the middle will always be less sharp on zooming.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

stanislaff

You're good

Mar 31, 2017permalink

J A C S

This does not explain why longer zooms do not follow that rule in general.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

badi

actually it does - for longer zooms the "wide" part is less complex as it does not have to cover such a large angle of view, so it is sharper all-over. This is also a reason why in general tele lenses (zoom or not) are sharper from a MTF point of view and also perform better on edges.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

J A C S

Actually, it does not. Some 70-200's are somewhat disappointing at 70mm. The Canon 24-70/4 is weakest around 50mm and improves at 70mm, etc.

That theory is too simplistic to mean something.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

badi

it's a "general rule", my comment is in the same idea as Rogers article (if you read it). It's not about examples and that one lens is the other way around.

Statistically wide angle zooms are much better on the wide end. And tele zooms do not respect the same trend (I wait for the continuation article, for a look on how things are in the tele zooms ... again, statistically). My guess that for tele zooms he will not be able to make a similar claim - that they are best on wide end or at tele end.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

badi

By the way he also shows the graphs for the canon 24-70/2.8 II, but your personal copy might be different. He also underlines this.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

Zdman

Something may be weak at the edges mid zoom and improve as you zoom in as the edges improve but the centre (or the bit you're zooming into) will probably drop in overall MFT because its being stretched out. I'd be interested to see if the middle part of the image (zoomed parts) MTF curve is similar to the zoomed in ones.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

J A C S

The "general rule" is for WA zooms, and the OP is not. That is all I am saying.

Mar 31, 2017permalink

badi

@JACS, yes you're correct... i missed that, i was talking about wide zooms as well.

However there is some general truth in there... i mean, after all at the tele end only a part of the wide element is used. So that part will have to outresolve the sensor, otherwise you will notice some decrease in sharpness - at least in MTF testing. Ofcourse there are so many factors at play so this may not even matter in real life... but we were talking about theoretical stuff anyway :)

Mar 31, 2017*permalink

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In a recent Q&A session with stakeholders, Canon said it believes 'the camera market has largely bottomed out at its current size' and noted it 'expect[s] the professional and advanced amateur segment to expand further.'

Aug 3, 2022278

Peter McKinnon unveils $95 camera tool with interchangeable bits, SD card slot and more

The Peter McKinnon camera tool features a patent-pending design that features integrated Phillips and flathead drivers, as well as extendable arms capable of holding four other bits that can be swapped out to fit your needs.

Aug 2, 2022142

Nikon adds linear focus mode to three of its Z-mount lenses via firmware update

Nikon has updated the firmware for its Nikkor Z 50mm F1.2 S, Nikkor Z MC 105mm F2.8 VR S and Nikkor Z 24-70mm F2.8 S to add new linear focus ring modes and more.

Aug 2, 2022134 lens news

Remote ID for drones ruled constitutional. Is that a good or bad thing for drone owners?

The United States court of appeals has upheld the FAA's Remote ID rule for drones, declaring it constitutional. Is this good or bad for the industry, and what are the long-term implications?

Aug 2, 2022109

MSI Creator Z17 laptop review: Stealing Apple's thunder

Aug 2, 2022364 review

Video: DIY Perks creates a massive '35mm F0.4' equivalent lens for otherworldly bokeh

It's a far cry from the conventional lenses you're used to seeing, but it's sure to give you a look, unlike any optic you can purchase online.

Aug 1, 2022127 video

ProGrade Digital unveils new dual SD/microSD UHS-II card reader with transfer speeds up to 625MB/s

The PGM0.5 card reader is designed for photographers on-the-go with its compact form factor and integrated USB-C connection, making it perfect for pairing with Android and iOS mobile devices with USB-C ports.

Aug 1, 202230

Sigma teases new product launch set to take place next week

Sigma is set to release new 'products' next week, on August 8, 2022. What do you think Sigma has in store?

Aug 1, 2022128

Canon EOS R7 sample gallery (DPReview TV)

The Canon EOS R7 boasts a number of impressive features, but how does its 32 megapixel APS-C sensor perform? Check out some summer vacation photos from beautiful British Columbia to see for yourself.

Aug 1, 202217 sample gallery

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Video: Lensrentals announces it’s hit the 1,000,000 order milestone, shares the history of the company Mar 2, 2020	Lensrentals gets risky while tearing down the Nikon Z 24-70mm F2.8 zoom lens Jan 15, 2020	Lensrentals breaks down its most-rented photo and video gear of 2019 Dec 20, 2019	Lensrentals teardown reveals the inside of the 'Strong like Bull' Canon RF 70-200mm F2.8 lens Dec 9, 2019


Milky Way Rise over Ancient Bristlecone Pine by ed rader from My Best Photo of the Fortnight	In My Little Town by Richard Carande from Rain Unlimited	The taste of honey by fotoselect from Polaroid Portraits	Rushing home to feed the chicks by Prahar from Wild movement: Wildlife in motion	IMG_2109 by toupia from People Photography 2022	Wanaka Tree at Dawn by photoman555 from The Tree

Lensrentals proposes 'Roger's Law of Wide Zoom Relativity'

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