T3

Lives in United States United States
Joined on Jul 1, 2003

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In reply to:

Old Cameras: This thing only looks vaguely like a Leica, more like a caricature of a real Leica. Basically it has the soap bar shape with rounded ends, to the great detriment of good ergonomics. The whole thing just looks unimpressive and sad. Leica's are so stratospherically expensive and rarified that no one will even recognize it, nullifying it's cache. A Fuji would look far more purposeful and impressive, and perform better as well, at a fraction of the cost. So what's the point of this overpriced nonsense?

Leica is doing fine. Leica has steadily been creating a new look for themselves for the 21st century. But they've always offered various cameras with various "looks". When you say, "This thing only looks vaguely like a Leica"...which Leica are you expecting it to look like? The Leica look has been morphing for decades.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a0/35/40/a0354028796452c7f201ec2c13662bed.jpg

Some people just have narrow minds and a narrow perspective. They don't realize that there is NOT just one Leica camera "look" that all Leica cameras should look like. Leica cameras have come in all shapes and sizes, as you can see from the linked image. Some people are just ignorant of Leica's history and the range of cameras that they have produced over the decades.

Link | Posted on Nov 21, 2017 at 16:50 UTC
In reply to:

NickyB66: Nice camera, looks like Leica are paying homage to my Fuji X-Pro2 in ways of design. Should be a good seller.

"looks like Leica are paying homage to my Fuji X-Pro2 in ways of design."

Wow, it's amazing how some people have such a short perspective of history-- as if history is only a few years old! Believe it or not, Leica has been making rangefinder-style cameras long before the Fuji X-Pro2. No, the Leica CL is not "paying homage" to the Fuji X-Pro2. Leica first introduced the Leica CL back in 1973-- and it used film.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_CL

https://www.cameraquest.com/leicacl.htm

Link | Posted on Nov 21, 2017 at 16:43 UTC
On article Moment releases new case and lenses for Apple iPhone X (57 comments in total)
In reply to:

davids8560: I can forgive people who balk, people who object because they feel overwhelmed. We live in a time of unprecedented change. More and more people are feeling inundated by progress, Powerful new technologies not only stand to redefine how everyone lives from day to day; they are ushering in vast changes which stand to re-engineer society, and even reduce redundant and irrelevant numbers within humanity itself!

And there seems to be no stopping it.

Smart gerbil food!

Bluetooth toilet tissue with RFI chips!

Dark web toupees!

People are nervous.

I know I am.

What's there to get nervous about? Just pick and choose whatever fits your needs. The great thing about all of this progress is that whenever I encounter a "problem", I can just go look on the internet to see if someone has created a "solution.' For example, I have a house that has all wood flooring. It needs constant sweeping to pick up dust. Now I have a robot vacuum that runs around doing it for me. Ah, convenience!

Link | Posted on Nov 20, 2017 at 21:00 UTC
On article Moment releases new case and lenses for Apple iPhone X (57 comments in total)
In reply to:

CaPi: There is no accounting for style - or so I am told.
Expect a ribbing from me every time you use that,
Every time - no exceptions

You sound like a grumpy old man. "Get off my lawn, you crazy kids!"

Link | Posted on Nov 20, 2017 at 19:56 UTC
On article Moment releases new case and lenses for Apple iPhone X (57 comments in total)
In reply to:

net1994: A phone case ad/'info' on a photography site? Why. You are better than this DP.

Time to join the 21st century. Smartphones are now the most widely used cameras used for photography in the world. And a smartphone case that facilitates photography would certainly be appropriate to discuss here.

Link | Posted on Nov 20, 2017 at 19:52 UTC
In reply to:

T3: "You press the button, we do the rest"

For those who don't know photography history, that was Eastman Kodak's slogan and that's how they got started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest

It seems like this is the same philosophy that Relonch is using. You press the button, and they'll take care of the rest. That might rankle "serious" photographers who think this was "lazy" and an affront to photography, just like it did back in 1888 when George Eastman first introduced the "You press the button, we do the rest" business model. But I do think it's a nice option to have for those who just want nice, post-processed, edited images from RAW files, but don't want to do anything more than to compose the image and press a button.

@Yake - You're probably too young to realize this, but people exactly like you slammed and lambasted Apple for being too proprietary and too limiting, haha! You probably don't realize that Apple wasn't always the hugely popular company that they are today! You really have to go back to Apple's earlier years to realize that Relonch is very much like what Apple was doing years ago-- and people just like you really, really hated it. But as I said, anytime you break from the "norm", there are always going to be people who disapprove. People would write long, detailed articles on why Apple was doing it all wrong, and that they offered no "significant advantage". But Apple stuck to their guns, Steve Jobs stuck to his vision of simplification and integration, in spite of massive criticism by people like you who disagreed with him. Michael Dell of Dell computers famously said, when asked what he'd do if he were CEO of Apple: "I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders". LOL

Link | Posted on Nov 19, 2017 at 02:58 UTC
In reply to:

Kai Griffin: It's almost impossible to imagine where on this planet the target demographic for such a product exists, because surely for someone baffled by a few buttons and dials (some of which have the word "auto" emblazoned on them in green), the ubiquitous smart phone with its typical single button, will do the job for them. I'd be very surprised if I ever saw one of these in the wild.

@anticipation_of - You're probably too young to realize this, but it's not a one-size-fits-all world. The other issue is that you are seeing this as a camera rental service. But that's only one part of it. It's really an end-to-end service that includes the APS-C camera with 30mm f/2 lens, 4G service, automatic uploading, and image editing/post-processing of RAW files. If you're just concentrating on the camera, then you're only seeing part of the picture. It's more of an end-to-end camera+processing service.

https://petapixel.com/2016/12/13/99-per-month-relonch-promises-great-photos-single-click/

BTW, I owned a Samsung NX30 with 30mm f/2 (apparently it's what Relonch is using). I can tell you that the image quality from this combo was really fantastic. I really wish Samsung never got out of the business. Better IQ than your average smartphone? I definitely think so.

Link | Posted on Nov 19, 2017 at 02:48 UTC
In reply to:

T3: "You press the button, we do the rest"

For those who don't know photography history, that was Eastman Kodak's slogan and that's how they got started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest

It seems like this is the same philosophy that Relonch is using. You press the button, and they'll take care of the rest. That might rankle "serious" photographers who think this was "lazy" and an affront to photography, just like it did back in 1888 when George Eastman first introduced the "You press the button, we do the rest" business model. But I do think it's a nice option to have for those who just want nice, post-processed, edited images from RAW files, but don't want to do anything more than to compose the image and press a button.

@Yake - There are plenty of businesses built around proprietary devices, software, or hardware. For example, there's a small company called Apple that requires "special" hardware to run their software. For many years, they were criticized for this. People like you said, "Special hardware: not such a good idea!" But it seems like Apple are doing ok, last time I checked .

My point is that it certainly is not unprecedented for a company to decide to use "special" hardware for their products or services. In the case of Relonch, they've decided to simplify the camera as much as possible, while also building 4G and software into the camera to automatically upload ever image. (I wish my cameras could do that!) I think they are following the Apple philosophy of simplification, integration, and providing an end-to-end service. I applaud them for following their vision, regardless of the outcome. It's not easy breaking from the norm.

Link | Posted on Nov 19, 2017 at 02:18 UTC
In reply to:

T3: "You press the button, we do the rest"

For those who don't know photography history, that was Eastman Kodak's slogan and that's how they got started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest

It seems like this is the same philosophy that Relonch is using. You press the button, and they'll take care of the rest. That might rankle "serious" photographers who think this was "lazy" and an affront to photography, just like it did back in 1888 when George Eastman first introduced the "You press the button, we do the rest" business model. But I do think it's a nice option to have for those who just want nice, post-processed, edited images from RAW files, but don't want to do anything more than to compose the image and press a button.

@Yake - No, but this one does. If you think you have a better business model, then start a different business. That's the great thing about a free market: if you have an idea, then start your own business and try it out!

Link | Posted on Nov 19, 2017 at 00:59 UTC
In reply to:

T3: "You press the button, we do the rest"

For those who don't know photography history, that was Eastman Kodak's slogan and that's how they got started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest

It seems like this is the same philosophy that Relonch is using. You press the button, and they'll take care of the rest. That might rankle "serious" photographers who think this was "lazy" and an affront to photography, just like it did back in 1888 when George Eastman first introduced the "You press the button, we do the rest" business model. But I do think it's a nice option to have for those who just want nice, post-processed, edited images from RAW files, but don't want to do anything more than to compose the image and press a button.

You guys are thinking of it as a camera service. I think of it as a photo editing service. For those who "just want photos", yes, there are plenty of options out there. But I do think there is room in the market-- or at least some markets-- where people would pay to have their images edited for them. Frankly, there have been plenty of occasions where I would love to have my images edited for me. This obviously won't work in some lower-income places. But in certain markets, like Palo Alto, where the median home value is $2.6 million:

https://www.zillow.com/palo-alto-ca/home-values/

...it can certainly work. Certain people in certain areas would certainly be open to paying a small price to have someone just edit and optimize their images for them so they can spend their time doing other things. I love to shoot, but I hate editing my images.

Link | Posted on Nov 19, 2017 at 00:26 UTC
In reply to:

Zigmont: Wait -- it's April 1? If not, this is the stupidest and most complex solution to a non-problem I've ever seen. Figures, it was created by one of those micro-brain idiots in Siliconjob Valley. Failure 100%.

"Figures, it was created by one of those micro-brain idiots in Siliconjob Valley."

Right, nothing good ever comes out of Silicon Valley:

http://techfluff.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/siliconvalley-1.jpg

The hotbed of technology and ideas is...Baltimore. LOL.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 22:36 UTC

"You press the button, we do the rest"

For those who don't know photography history, that was Eastman Kodak's slogan and that's how they got started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Press_the_Button,_We_Do_the_Rest

It seems like this is the same philosophy that Relonch is using. You press the button, and they'll take care of the rest. That might rankle "serious" photographers who think this was "lazy" and an affront to photography, just like it did back in 1888 when George Eastman first introduced the "You press the button, we do the rest" business model. But I do think it's a nice option to have for those who just want nice, post-processed, edited images from RAW files, but don't want to do anything more than to compose the image and press a button.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 22:29 UTC as 59th comment | 11 replies
In reply to:

SilvanBromide: Strikes me as more like the end of beginner photography than the "future" of it.

How on earth is someone ever going to learn how to use controls that they don't even have access to. Without that access they are heavily limited in what they can achieve and are forever stuck in total-novice mode. Supporting people to learn is not about hampering them and preventing them from learning.

@SilvanBromide - The same has been said of smartphone photography. I guess that's why smartphone photography never took off. Seriously though, I don't think this is going to be any more "discouraging" or "alienating" than the simplicity of shooting with a smartphone.

And also keep in mind that selected images are edited and sent back to you, which I think would be very encouraging because it shows how good your photos really can be. I think a lot of beginning photographers get discouraged because they think their photos suck compared to what they see online, but the reality is that a lot of what they see online is just the product of editing and post-processing. So since the service edits your photos for you and sends you back "finished" images, I think that can be very encouraging. It helps people to realize, "Hey, maybe my photos don't suck so much!"

I'm an experienced photographer, but there are plenty of times that I wish someone would edit my photos for me!

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 22:11 UTC

If I were the photographer, I would have made sure to get payment upfront...just in case the bride and groom didn't survive the shoot.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 22:01 UTC as 49th comment
In reply to:

SilvanBromide: Strikes me as more like the end of beginner photography than the "future" of it.

How on earth is someone ever going to learn how to use controls that they don't even have access to. Without that access they are heavily limited in what they can achieve and are forever stuck in total-novice mode. Supporting people to learn is not about hampering them and preventing them from learning.

Oh God, it's another "the end of photography" rant. I don't think that's the case at all. I think it just makes photography more accessible, and anything that makes photography more accessible is good for photography. It gives people a taste of photography, and if they want to move to something more advanced then they are certainly able to buying their own camera. I know plenty of people who are into serious photography now who got started by shooting with the Instagram app on their smartphones! And a lot of these people would have never picked up a camera if it hadn't been for their smartphone.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 21:55 UTC
In reply to:

T3: It's the camera equivalent of bicycle sharing services in major cities. I don't think it's a bad idea. As we move forward into the future, ownership will become less and less popular. In the future, we'll even have car-sharing services where you can order an auto-driving car to show up at your house for you to use for the day. Millennials are showing that they are less and less interested in "owning" things. It's already happened with media like music and movies. They don't feel the need to own CD's and DVD's. The older generation thinks this is crazy, but that's how things are these days.

Anyways, getting back to my original point, I see this as the equivalent of bicycle-sharing services. Hardcore cyclists obviously still want to buy their own bicycle, but if you are just a casual rider who needs a bike of the day to coast around on, you don't want to own. Likewise, the same can be said of these cameras.

@anticipation_of - You're being short-sighted. I think this is just a start. Keep in mind, people like you looked down upon streaming services for music and movies too. People are always skeptical of new things, new paradigms. You also have to keep in mind that with the Relonch camera you are shooting with a 30mm f/2.0, shooting with an APS-C sensor, and the service edits the images for you and sends them to your phone. I can see the appeal of this service, especially for someone who has no time or desire to edit photos. I just think the cost should come down.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 21:46 UTC
In reply to:

Kharan: This project is obviously looked at with derision by most enthusiasts and pros, but Allison does have a good point in her article - the younger generations are far more agreeable to just rent things for short periods instead of owning them. Another characteristic of these people is that they want to dabble in the most incredible, pointless endeavors,especially if they’re outdated.
I think that a truly interesting business niche would be to rent them nice, fully-working medium format systems and lab time, to have them experience the joys of old photography without the hassle of needing to own and care for all that stuff. Include an intro class with Ecuadorian coffee and you’re all set :D
I’d be interested in such a service, especially since MF photography has become impossibly expensive (digital) or difficult (there’s a single remaining lab in my country that processes MF film, and they’re effing expensive).

@anticipation_of - "Paying $1 a pop for something that’s normally free is not a very enticing proposition, let me tell you."

Right, because buying a camera is totally free. There is a high cost of ownership if you really took a look at all the costs associated with owning things.

As for what Relonch is doing, I think it's a good start. I think it's very cool that there is 4G built into these cameras. Everything zips up into the cloud.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 21:36 UTC
In reply to:

Kharan: This project is obviously looked at with derision by most enthusiasts and pros, but Allison does have a good point in her article - the younger generations are far more agreeable to just rent things for short periods instead of owning them. Another characteristic of these people is that they want to dabble in the most incredible, pointless endeavors,especially if they’re outdated.
I think that a truly interesting business niche would be to rent them nice, fully-working medium format systems and lab time, to have them experience the joys of old photography without the hassle of needing to own and care for all that stuff. Include an intro class with Ecuadorian coffee and you’re all set :D
I’d be interested in such a service, especially since MF photography has become impossibly expensive (digital) or difficult (there’s a single remaining lab in my country that processes MF film, and they’re effing expensive).

"the younger generations are far more agreeable to just rent things for short periods instead of owning them."

That's spot on. The younger generation is far less interested in ownership, which is probably smart since things move so quickly these days. New products are constantly coming out. You buy a product, and before you know it a new model has come out. I just bought a new Lexus last year, and I think it may be the last car I ever own because I anticipate that in the future I'll just pay a monthly fee for a car-sharing service where I can just request a self-driving car through an app, and it'll show up at my door so that I can use for certain period of time.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 19:09 UTC

It's the camera equivalent of bicycle sharing services in major cities. I don't think it's a bad idea. As we move forward into the future, ownership will become less and less popular. In the future, we'll even have car-sharing services where you can order an auto-driving car to show up at your house for you to use for the day. Millennials are showing that they are less and less interested in "owning" things. It's already happened with media like music and movies. They don't feel the need to own CD's and DVD's. The older generation thinks this is crazy, but that's how things are these days.

Anyways, getting back to my original point, I see this as the equivalent of bicycle-sharing services. Hardcore cyclists obviously still want to buy their own bicycle, but if you are just a casual rider who needs a bike of the day to coast around on, you don't want to own. Likewise, the same can be said of these cameras.

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 19:03 UTC as 69th comment | 3 replies
In reply to:

Kai Griffin: It's almost impossible to imagine where on this planet the target demographic for such a product exists, because surely for someone baffled by a few buttons and dials (some of which have the word "auto" emblazoned on them in green), the ubiquitous smart phone with its typical single button, will do the job for them. I'd be very surprised if I ever saw one of these in the wild.

First all all, your concerns about buttons and dials are already addressed by this camera because all of those things are covered up except for the shutter button. Secondly, the analogy for this rental camera is the rental bicycle. A lot of people don't want to own a bicycle because it seems too complicated to maintain. They'd rather just use a bicycle-sharing or rental service, which are so popular in many cities these days. This is the camera equivalent of these bike sharing services:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50f746fde4b00d3480c91f8b/t/5125fa0de4b001d57f7c8cf2/1361443342150/bicing-city-bicycle-hire-barcelona-spain_001p.jpeg

Link | Posted on Nov 18, 2017 at 18:52 UTC
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