T3

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Total: 4106, showing: 61 – 80
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In reply to:

audiobomber: The headline could have read, "CIPA figures show disappointing October sales, but DSLR's still dominate the market." I guess that wouldn't be news and wouldn't reflect DPR's Mirrorless bias.

Dominating the market is a bit at odds with a 22% year-over-year drop, especially compared to a 12% rise of mirrorless. In other words, "dominate" sounds like a powerful position, but in reality DSLR's market share is on a downward trajectory while mirrorless continues on its upward trajectory.

Link | Posted on Dec 6, 2017 at 19:15 UTC
In reply to:

User0127324968: Showing The whole statistics of selling ILC and comparing to other cameras is just to create a "need" in photographer's subconscious.
You're still using a Dslr?!
Yes!
Go get an ILC to be updated! Look, most people are switching to ILC.

@User0127324968 - I enjoy travel photography. I used to travel with Canon APS-C DSLR gear. Now I travel with APS-C mirrorless gear (I use both Sony and Fuji mirrorless). I can tell you that it's waaaay more comfortable to travel and shoot with mirrorless gear. Lighter and more compact size makes a big difference when traveling and carrying gear for hours on end. 500g makes a big difference. Differences in body size also make a big difference. Grip size makes far less of a difference than you realize because if you actually tabulated how much time you are gripping the camera to take a shot, versus having the camera just sitting in your shoulder bag or hanging from your shoulder, it's probably like 15% vs 85%. Personally, I don't see myself ever buying another DSLR in my lifetime. I'm happier to use mirrorless from here on out. And with every passing year, I think more and more people are going to be doing the same. DSLR popularity will continue to erode.

Link | Posted on Dec 6, 2017 at 19:11 UTC
In reply to:

Daft Punk: I think DSLR sales will fall to the stage where they reach a tipping point - when that point is reached, the DSLR market will totally collapse and become a specialised thing for serious amateurs.

This is how it will happen - sales of Canon Rebels and Nikon 3/5XXXD models will carry on falling. BestBuy and the other big retailers will then calculate that the floor real estate would be more profitable selling something else like microwaves or food mixers. So they reduce the floor space of the DSLR's. So sales fall even more. 3 years later, no more DSLR in BestBuy.

This WILL happen. Probably sooner than you realise.

@rrccad - You are unrealistically expecting a sudden "collapse." That's not how it really happens. Things happen gradually. Glaciers don't disappear overnight. What we are seeing is a gradual rise in mirrorless and a gradual decline in DSLRs: 22% year-over-year decline in DSLRs, 12% year-over-year rise in mirrorless. It's foolish and unrealistic to expect a "collapse." Years from now, it may seem like a "collapse", but in reality it will have been a gradual processes over the course of many years. It's like kids growing up: they do it gradually, but it seems like you blink and they are suddenly teenagers!

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 22:30 UTC
In reply to:

rrccad: "CIPA figures show disappointing October sales"

it's not sales. it's shipments.

there's simply no way that this october was going to match next october, just as there's no chance that the November and December values match as well. that's simply because the earthquake screwed up shipments for nearly 9 months of last year.

however, the net should be that all things equal out and that the net aggregate for the year is that things settle down and 2016 and 2017 nearly equal the same amounts shipped.

We won't get a good idea on what's really happening to the shipments until next year at this time, just because last year was such a cluster-.., even if 2016 equals 2017.

It's amazing how some people will go to any lengths to ignore the data and deny the changes that are happening. It reminds me of Climate Change denialists.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 20:58 UTC
In reply to:

Sean65: Many of the current crop of DSLR's a so solid a robust that you'd hardly ever be buying them on a regular basis. Even some of the busiest Pro's buying a Nikon D5 would expect a solid five years use out of it.

"I've seen and used liveview a TON on DSLR's.. and I've seen others primarily use liveview on DSLR's in the past and I'm sure i'm not the only one."

Yep, people are increasingly enjoying the benefits of allowing the sensor to see the scene. Unfortunately, with a DSLR you can't do that while using the OVF because you have a pesky mirror in the way. That's why people will increasingly forego the outdated OVF and choose EVF cameras instead.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 20:55 UTC
In reply to:

rrccad: "CIPA figures show disappointing October sales"

it's not sales. it's shipments.

there's simply no way that this october was going to match next october, just as there's no chance that the November and December values match as well. that's simply because the earthquake screwed up shipments for nearly 9 months of last year.

however, the net should be that all things equal out and that the net aggregate for the year is that things settle down and 2016 and 2017 nearly equal the same amounts shipped.

We won't get a good idea on what's really happening to the shipments until next year at this time, just because last year was such a cluster-.., even if 2016 equals 2017.

"it's not sales. it's shipments."

In the modern age, with tight electronic inventory control, shipments correlate very tightly with sales. Gone are the days when stores held warehouses full of excess inventory. Companies now avoid that like the plague because it's financially very risky and it ties up a lot of cash in inventory. These days, companies use a "just in time" inventory model. That's the world we are increasingly living in today.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 19:36 UTC
In reply to:

Daft Punk: I think DSLR sales will fall to the stage where they reach a tipping point - when that point is reached, the DSLR market will totally collapse and become a specialised thing for serious amateurs.

This is how it will happen - sales of Canon Rebels and Nikon 3/5XXXD models will carry on falling. BestBuy and the other big retailers will then calculate that the floor real estate would be more profitable selling something else like microwaves or food mixers. So they reduce the floor space of the DSLR's. So sales fall even more. 3 years later, no more DSLR in BestBuy.

This WILL happen. Probably sooner than you realise.

@rrccad - Plus, I'm finding more and more people (especially more casual ILC shooters) are turned off by the size and girth of DSLRs. I have a female friend who just bought her first ILC and she ended up with a Fuji X-T20 because even with the 16-50 kit lens, she could fit it in her handbag. It takes up a lot less room than a Rebel SL2 with kit lens:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#703.421,715.377,ha,t

She specifically said that she thought "DSLRs are too big." And she was talking about "small" DSLRs like the Rebel! Before the age of mirrorless cameras, my friend would have surely ended up with a DSLR. But in today's era where mirrorless cameras exist, the DSLR market is steadily bleeding away ILC buyers such as my friend, losing them to mirrorless. And it's only going to increase over time.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 19:23 UTC
In reply to:

Daft Punk: I think DSLR sales will fall to the stage where they reach a tipping point - when that point is reached, the DSLR market will totally collapse and become a specialised thing for serious amateurs.

This is how it will happen - sales of Canon Rebels and Nikon 3/5XXXD models will carry on falling. BestBuy and the other big retailers will then calculate that the floor real estate would be more profitable selling something else like microwaves or food mixers. So they reduce the floor space of the DSLR's. So sales fall even more. 3 years later, no more DSLR in BestBuy.

This WILL happen. Probably sooner than you realise.

@rrccad - You don't get Live View functions in an OVF. No real-time exposure preview, no face-boxed face AF, in most cases no face AF at all, no real-time histogram, typically very limited focus point coverage. To get that in a DSLR, you have to use the rear LCD, and only after manually flipping up the mirror. There's no auto switching between the viewfinder and rear LCD like on a mirrorless camera.

The irony is that the more people get used to Live View functions and features on the rear LCD, the more they are going to expect the same functions when looking through the viewfinder. And that's where DSLRs really fall short, so eventually, it will drive more people to mirrorless cameras with EVFs.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 19:15 UTC
In reply to:

User0127324968: Showing The whole statistics of selling ILC and comparing to other cameras is just to create a "need" in photographer's subconscious.
You're still using a Dslr?!
Yes!
Go get an ILC to be updated! Look, most people are switching to ILC.

@User0127324968 - The Pentax K5 was "much more compact"? Here's an XT-2 with XF 35/2 compared to a K-5 with 31/1.8 LTD.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#679.498,187.81,ha,t

Even without the hood on the Pentax lens, you can see that the XT-2 setup is a lot more compact because it doesn't have the unnecessary girth of a mirror box. And the weight difference is 677g vs 1085g.

An XT-2 with XF 27/2.8 is more compact and lighter (585g total) than a K-5 body with no lens attached (740g)!

http://camerasize.com/compact/#679.388,187,ha,t

I use an X-E1. I love it. For day to day shooting and carrying, I much prefer its lighter weight and more compact size than my Canon DSLR. It's just more comfortable to have with me than a chunky DSLR.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 19:00 UTC
In reply to:

Daft Punk: I think DSLR sales will fall to the stage where they reach a tipping point - when that point is reached, the DSLR market will totally collapse and become a specialised thing for serious amateurs.

This is how it will happen - sales of Canon Rebels and Nikon 3/5XXXD models will carry on falling. BestBuy and the other big retailers will then calculate that the floor real estate would be more profitable selling something else like microwaves or food mixers. So they reduce the floor space of the DSLR's. So sales fall even more. 3 years later, no more DSLR in BestBuy.

This WILL happen. Probably sooner than you realise.

@Daft Punk - "Young people are "familiar" with mirrorless because of live view."

Very true. It doesn't really matter that many existing DSLR users still prefer OVF. It's really about the next generation of users. And that generation has been growing up with smartphones that offer real-time exposure preview that tells them if an image is going to be too dark or too bright, and face AF that puts a convenient box around the faces in a scene, and focus coverage across the entire frame of the image, etc. The new generation of users will want these capabilities whether they look at the rear LCD or look through the viewfinder. And as for looking at a rear LCD to frame a shot, they don't want to have to push a button to flip a mirror out of the way.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 18:42 UTC
In reply to:

Sean65: Many of the current crop of DSLR's a so solid a robust that you'd hardly ever be buying them on a regular basis. Even some of the busiest Pro's buying a Nikon D5 would expect a solid five years use out of it.

@RedFox88 - BTW, the great thing about mirrorless cameras and AF point coverage is that since the AF points are on the image sensor, it doesn't matter how big the sensor and viewfinder are, you can still get massive focus point coverage across the entire frame. That's even true for medium format, such as the Fuji GFX mirrorless camera:

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujifilm_gfx_50s/features/img/page_04/pic_01.jpg

Compare that to the AF point coverage of a Pentax 645Z medium format DSLR:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/1/1126/645z_vf.jpg

With DSLRs, the bigger the format and the bigger the viewfinder, the worse the AF point coverage becomes.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 09:10 UTC
In reply to:

SimenO1: Its been like this for many years. Roughly every third system camera sold is mirrorless. Its a stable situation with small changes caused by new models, seasons and so on.

@RedFox88- "22% fewer DSLRs were shipped globally, but there was a 12% rise for mirrorless, indicating that mirrorless is continuing its rise while simultaneously cannibalizing market share from its DSLR cousins."

A 22% drop in DSLRs compared to a 12% rise of mirrorless does not make SLRs "more stable." So if you are in an airplane that has dropped 22% in altitude, you think that's "stable" flight? So if your salary has dropped 22% from last year, you think your income is "more stable"? I don't know any business or store that can look at a 22% year-over-year drop in sales and report that everything is "more stable" than another business or store that is seeing a rise in year-over-year sales.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 08:59 UTC
In reply to:

xPhoenix: Switching from a DSLR to mirrorless is easy. Switching over all those lenses it hard. If so many people weren't locked-in to a certain brand due to glass, mirrorless would probably be doing even better than it already is.

@RedFox88 - The problem for DSLRs is that a lot of that DSLR glass can be used on mirrorless bodies thanks to advancements in smart adapters for mirrorless cameras. For example, I am a Canon DSLR user, but I now also use Sony mirrorless. I can use any of my Canon DSLR glass on Sony mirrorless bodies with full compatibility. And eventually, I expect a good smart adapter to come out for Nikon DSLR glass too. That should be pretty darn scary for DSLR systems since people will no longer feel "locked in" because they own DSLR glass.

Furthermore, if you REALLY want to maximize your options with "high end fabulous glass", you really should use mirrorless because mirrorless allows the maximum level of cross compatibility and accessibility for the widest range of lenses across various systems, from SLR to rangefinder lenses.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 08:50 UTC
In reply to:

Sean65: Many of the current crop of DSLR's a so solid a robust that you'd hardly ever be buying them on a regular basis. Even some of the busiest Pro's buying a Nikon D5 would expect a solid five years use out of it.

@RedFox88 - D500 only has "edge-to-edge" AF coverage horizontally, not vertically, and it can only just manage that because it's a DX viewfinder/sensor, not a FF viewfinder/sensor. Mirrorless cameras can do edge-to-edge AF points even on FF because the focus sensors are on the actual image sensor! There's also the size and cost of the D500 body. It's an $1800 body. Mirrorless bodies can deliver more, for less money. For example, the Sony A6500 with 425 AF points that truly cover the frame edge-to-edge, with high resolution face and eye AF tracking in the viewfinder, in a smaller camera package and for only $1200, with IBIS! That's what DSLRs are up against! Oh, and the D500 weighs 90% more than the A6500 (D500 is 407g heavier).

And as the production volume of DSLRs continue to decrease, while mirrorless volume continues to increase, I think the price gap between DSLRs and mirrorless will become even greater, with DSLRs getting more expensive and mirrorless getting less expensive.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 08:38 UTC
In reply to:

PWPhotography: Mirrorless will replace DSLR, just a matter of time, 10 years maybe.

@Max Iso - "Unless they make an EVF that is indistinguishable from an OVF, and hopefully with battery life to match, i don't think i will leave the DSLR. "

Yes, there will probably be a lot of DSLR users who will keep using DSLRs until their dying days, just like there are some music listeners who still prefer to listen to vinyl records. But in time, I don't think the majority of future ILC buyers will feel the same. And I can't see many people buying both DSLRs and mirrorless. They'll just pick one or the other. But these new users won't have the same habituation, nostalgia, and familiar comfort for OVFs that you do. So it's not about getting every existing DSLR user to switch over to mirrorless. It's really about the gradual trend of new buyers increasingly opting for mirrorless cameras over DSLRs. I personally know five people who bought their first ILC in 2017, and they all independently chose mirrorless ILCs. In the past, they would have all bought DSLRs.

Link | Posted on Dec 5, 2017 at 02:24 UTC
In reply to:

xPhoenix: Switching from a DSLR to mirrorless is easy. Switching over all those lenses it hard. If so many people weren't locked-in to a certain brand due to glass, mirrorless would probably be doing even better than it already is.

@xPhoenix - That's why we should not assume that the future of mirrorless growth is entirely dependent upon getting existing users such as yourself to switch over. But having said that, switching has always occurred throughout the history of camera systems. Plenty of people have chosen to do it. Think of the Canon EOS system, which basically had zero market share when it was introduced in 1987 (it had almost no backward compatibility with Canon's previous FD system). How did Canon EOS rise to become such a dominant system? It came from a combination of getting other system users to switch systems, in addition to getting new users to choose Canon EOS. But switching to a system like Sony mirrorless is actually a lot easier these days because of smart adapters which allow Canon DSLR lenses (and maybe some day, Nikon DSLR lenses) to still be compatible.

Link | Posted on Dec 4, 2017 at 22:25 UTC
In reply to:

Sean65: Many of the current crop of DSLR's a so solid a robust that you'd hardly ever be buying them on a regular basis. Even some of the busiest Pro's buying a Nikon D5 would expect a solid five years use out of it.

Which is why mirrorless is going to be the growth market. With DSLRs, there's not a lot to be gained from buying a new DSLR. But with mirrorless, there's plenty to be gained: smaller size, lighter weight, faster frame rates, quieter shooting, more AF points with more AF coverage, other EVF features like in-viewfinder face/eye AF and real-time exposure preview, etc.

Link | Posted on Dec 4, 2017 at 21:45 UTC
In reply to:

Life recorder: "Most of the mirrorless shipments are going to the Asia region, though, which still accounts for more than 50 percent of all mirrorless cameras shipped"

And we know last year with only a couple mirrorless ILC bodies, Canon outsold BOTH Sony's aspc AND ff mirrorless offerings in Japan.

Can Canon keep that up with only a couple basic models? And what happens to Sony next year when both Canon and Nikon enter the FF mirrorless market?

We can criticize Canon all we want, but they are still dominating everyone else.

We also have to remember that this is a pretty big change from just a few years ago, where Sony ILC wasn't even anywhere close to Canon's ILC market share. Canon certainly is not anywhere close to being as "dominating" as they used to be. Canon used to be far ahead of their closest competitors by a large margin of market share. That's no longer the case for Canon. As the mirrorless market continues to grow, Canon finds itself in a very non-dominating position.

Link | Posted on Dec 4, 2017 at 21:41 UTC
In reply to:

Life recorder: "Most of the mirrorless shipments are going to the Asia region, though, which still accounts for more than 50 percent of all mirrorless cameras shipped"

And we know last year with only a couple mirrorless ILC bodies, Canon outsold BOTH Sony's aspc AND ff mirrorless offerings in Japan.

Can Canon keep that up with only a couple basic models? And what happens to Sony next year when both Canon and Nikon enter the FF mirrorless market?

We can criticize Canon all we want, but they are still dominating everyone else.

Some people seem to think that Asia is only Japan. Asia is composed of a lot of countries. I would think that countries like China and South Korea easily make up equally big, or bigger, markets than Japan. In South Korea, Sony tops Canon:

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2016/02/133_197128.html

"Sony Korea, the Korean subsidiary of the Japanese consumer electronics giant, emerged last year as the country's top supplier of both the interchangeable lens and mirrorless camera segments, beating its longtime rival Canon."

Japan, alone, does not represent all of Asia. Besides, last year Canon only beat Sony in the Japan market by only 0.6%.
https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/2016-companies-market-shares-japan/

Not huge lead. And since Canon's mirrorless system mainly consists of lower-lever casual-shooting gear, that's the kind of usership that is making up Canon's mirrorless-- casual shooters. You're going to find a higher quality of users amongst Sony mirrorless.

Link | Posted on Dec 4, 2017 at 21:37 UTC
In reply to:

xPhoenix: Switching from a DSLR to mirrorless is easy. Switching over all those lenses it hard. If so many people weren't locked-in to a certain brand due to glass, mirrorless would probably be doing even better than it already is.

Don't forget that the entire photo market does not consist of getting existing DSLR owners to switch over to mirrorless. There are new ILC buyers entering the market every year. And increasingly, more of them are opting for mirrorless. You also have to remember that a lot of DSLR owners don't own a lot of lenses. So "switching over all those lenses" isn't so much of an issue simply because they don't own "all those lenses" to switch over.

Link | Posted on Dec 4, 2017 at 21:21 UTC
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