T3

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Joined on Jul 1, 2003

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Total: 4839, showing: 41 – 60
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In reply to:

Stanchung: Sorry off topic.

Picked up the Sony Alpha a7R III today to test.

Looks are a big win. Feels good in the hand.

Considering how many pro mirrorless fans out here saying how great EVF is now compared to back when.

You are all kidding yourselves. Pan a little and get all these brittle jpeggy artifacts that made me dizzy. Even slowly. Trying to follow a person walking was ridiculously filled with unclear jpeggy artifacts.

i put it down gently and walked away.
There's a good reason I will be sticking to OVF's for awhile.
Sorry.

@Clayton1985 - No, they will not be "taking away the OVFs." As long as there is a market for them, they'll still be around. As for "fewer new features and improvements", that's mainly a result of DSLRs reaching a level of maturation where there's less and less you can add to them. As a technology, the SLR is plateauing. But mirrorless can't be blamed for that. For example, you can't add more AF points covering a larger area of the viewfinder in a DSLR because that's a physical limitation of using a separate PDAF module. Mirrorless cameras don't have that limitation because they don't use a separate PDAF module.

As for camera makers releasing fewer and fewer OVF cameras, well, if there are fewer and fewer improvements to make to them, updating models with new ones will be less and less necessary or warranted. But again, it's more because DSLRs are plateauing and there's less you can do to them. That was probably going to happen even if mirrorless didn't exist.

Link | Posted on May 17, 2018 at 15:12 UTC
In reply to:

keepreal: I am less of a fan of DPR than I used to be because the quality and content of its articles have declined, but I have to say this one is very balanced and fair minded.

Yes, it makes sense that the relatively new kid on the block goes overboard with innovation to attract interest and the best of what Sony has achieved is impressive.

However, who needs all this? Even the two big established leaders offer more than most people need. That is not to decry progress, so much as to point out that many of the enthusiasts are not keen, accomplished photographers so much as equipment collectors and big spenders.

"Everyone else knows that I was just referring to this as being one case of consumerism, greed and selfishness nowadays."

Nowadays? Haven't new cameras been coming out, like, since cameras were invented? Why is it "nowadays"? Between 1992 (the first year Canon film Rebel SLR were introduced) and 2004 (when the last film Rebel SLR was introduced), Canon introduced nine Rebel film SLRs.
http://global.canon/en/c-museum/series_search.html?t=camera&s=film

That's almost a new Canon Rebel introduced every year. That's not even counting other (non-Rebel) film SLRs Canon introduced. In that same time period, Canon actually introduced 19 film SLRs. (And these new SLRs weren't even getting improvements in their image sensors, LOL.) Hate to break it to you, but new cameras have been coming out for a long time. It's not a "nowadays" thing. This must be one of those silly "everything was better in the past" arguments.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 23:09 UTC
In reply to:

antares103: For those poo pooing cloud storage and to get a spinny disk hard drive... I had two hard drives, clones of each other, fail simultaneously. By simultaneously, I mean I used them both the night before and the next day one did not work, so I went to the other, and it did not work. External drives, separate cases, separate power supplies. There may have been a power surge to them, or they may have just failed. Either way, it does not take a major catastrophe like a fire, flood, or tornado to take out all your images. Fortunately, I was able to get one drive recovered, copied it again, and never have both plugged in at the same time.

@Cogset - And it isn't just that they might fail. Natural and un-natural disasters happen. Fire, flood, earthquake, tornado, robbery. A few years back, Francis Ford Coppola's house was burglarized and the robbers took all his hard drives and backup drives. He lost 15 years of archived photos, scripts, etc.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 21:27 UTC
In reply to:

dpfan32: Cloud means that you have nothing. One switch and everything you "own" in the cloud is gone.

Uh, that's now how it works. Cloud storage companies wouldn't survive if they couldn't demonstrate their reliability and long-term dependability. And as a result, they end up being far more reliable at storing data than the average home user doing it on his own.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 21:00 UTC
In reply to:

antares103: For those poo pooing cloud storage and to get a spinny disk hard drive... I had two hard drives, clones of each other, fail simultaneously. By simultaneously, I mean I used them both the night before and the next day one did not work, so I went to the other, and it did not work. External drives, separate cases, separate power supplies. There may have been a power surge to them, or they may have just failed. Either way, it does not take a major catastrophe like a fire, flood, or tornado to take out all your images. Fortunately, I was able to get one drive recovered, copied it again, and never have both plugged in at the same time.

I think you need both: external drives and cloud storage. I wouldn't rely on cloud storage alone, and I wouldn't rely on hard drives alone. I do both.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 20:53 UTC
In reply to:

Stanchung: Sorry off topic.

Picked up the Sony Alpha a7R III today to test.

Looks are a big win. Feels good in the hand.

Considering how many pro mirrorless fans out here saying how great EVF is now compared to back when.

You are all kidding yourselves. Pan a little and get all these brittle jpeggy artifacts that made me dizzy. Even slowly. Trying to follow a person walking was ridiculously filled with unclear jpeggy artifacts.

i put it down gently and walked away.
There's a good reason I will be sticking to OVF's for awhile.
Sorry.

@Relaxed - LOL, yeah, I guess that makes sense. There certainly seems to be a generational divide. One appeals more to the older generation, the other appeals more to the newer generation. A lot of the appeal obviously has to do with what you grew up with. Older users obviously grew up with Classic Rock/OVFs, and that's what they are used to. But of course, that hasn't stopped new forms of music to constantly arise as music continues to evolve year after year, generation after generation (what you call "hipster pop"). And some people in the older generation just think it's awful noise! Hahaha! "Look at all that crazy music the kids are listening to! It's terrible!"

https://iampierremenard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/angry-old-man.jpg

But obviously, classic rock and new music can co-exist in the world, without classic rock fans disparaging new music, and without new music listeners disparaging classic rock. There are many stations on the radio!

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 20:42 UTC
In reply to:

Stanchung: Sorry off topic.

Picked up the Sony Alpha a7R III today to test.

Looks are a big win. Feels good in the hand.

Considering how many pro mirrorless fans out here saying how great EVF is now compared to back when.

You are all kidding yourselves. Pan a little and get all these brittle jpeggy artifacts that made me dizzy. Even slowly. Trying to follow a person walking was ridiculously filled with unclear jpeggy artifacts.

i put it down gently and walked away.
There's a good reason I will be sticking to OVF's for awhile.
Sorry.

@Stanchung - So is that what it is? You're sore about someone calling OVF users "dinosaurs"? Obviously, that's just a small minority of people who are saying that. If you like OVF, just keep using them! What's the big deal? But that doesn't mean you have to try to keep EVF progressing into the market by spewing FUD. Besides, it won't work! LOL. It's as if you think that you, and you alone, have tried EVF and you think you can get away with the non-sense you were saying. Too many users, reviewers, and reviews out there that say otherwise.

OVF users, just keep using OVFs. It's just like vinyl record listeners who still prefer vinyl and still listen to vinyl. No one is taking vinyl away from them. They still exist, and new albums are being released on vinyl all the time. Some people just prefer vinyl over digital music formats. But obviously, digital music brings its own new benefits and advantages. It's the ol' digital vs analog argument. OVF is analog, and EVF is digital.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 20:24 UTC
In reply to:

Stanchung: Sorry off topic.

Picked up the Sony Alpha a7R III today to test.

Looks are a big win. Feels good in the hand.

Considering how many pro mirrorless fans out here saying how great EVF is now compared to back when.

You are all kidding yourselves. Pan a little and get all these brittle jpeggy artifacts that made me dizzy. Even slowly. Trying to follow a person walking was ridiculously filled with unclear jpeggy artifacts.

i put it down gently and walked away.
There's a good reason I will be sticking to OVF's for awhile.
Sorry.

LOL, yeah, right. Panning, "even slowly", creates "brittle peggy artifacts" that "made you dizzy"? LOL. Nice try.

People seem to forget that EVFs have been in wide use in the videography industry for a long time. You don't hear people in the videography industry saying, "We can't pan! Not even slowly! We need OVFs!"

I've been using older EVFs in the A6000 and X-E1 for a while now. No problems. And these EVFs aren't nearly as good as the latest EVFs.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 17:55 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@tomO2013 - I think it's all of the above. Some may not be comfortable citing issues with a particular product, but if you have dozens of reviewers at these events, you can rest assured that there WILL be those who WILL report it. And they certainly have. So I don't see it as being a problem. A large quantity of diverse reviewers, all with their own opinions, biases, preferences, and perspectives, basically allows the truth to come out, good or bad. Besides, in today's information age, where anyone and everyone can test a product and put up a Youtube review, I find it odd that people are so hung up about biases that may arise out of these events! You can't keep the truth of a product from getting out. Plus, most of these reviewers going on these events do get gear to test over a longer period of time. These launch events are really for first impressions in a variety of shooting situations in a concentrated, shorter period of time. More in-depth reviews almost always follow.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 17:25 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@tomO2013 - I think you guys are making way too much of this. Besides, any time anyone brings up the word "gimmick", I find that to be a red flag. As an early Canon EOS user, I remember all too well Nikonians constantly using the "gimmick" word to dismiss all the things that Canon was doing. Canon USM? Gimmick. Canon IS? Gimmick. Canon electronic connection between camera and lens? Gimmick. Canon adverts? Gimmick. So I find the word "gimmick" as the catchall term used to dismiss, disparage, or attack anything that any other brand is doing. Now, that word is simply being used against the new upstart kid on the block. LOL, funny how history repeats itself. Oh, and another popular theory was that Canon was paying Nikon users to switch to EOS so they could line the sidelines of sporting events with white lenses! Yes, all of this paranoia has happened before.

At the end of the day, the product has to stand up to whatever reviewers put it to. And reviewers will report it, good or bad.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 17:08 UTC
In reply to:

aftab: Talking about brands, brand reputation matters, no matter how illogical it may sound to many.
"…… That brand strength can be seen in consumer perceptions. According to YouGov BrandIndex, Canon comes fourth in a list of 36 ‘computing and home office’ brands with an index score of 23.4 (index being a balance of a range of metrics including value, quality and satisfaction). It is also in the top five for impression, quality, value and recommendation.
And the Reputation Institute has Canon at fourth in its global ranking of brand reputation, with a score of 77.4 putting it behind just Rolex, Lego and Google."

https://www.marketingweek.com/2018/05/11/canon-reframing-disruption/

Canon is ahead of Apple, Microsoft and Samsung, forget Sony, Fuji, Nikon or any other DPR or forum favorite.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/516403/most-reputable-companies/

Canon scores 77.4. Sony scores 77.3. That's not a big difference! LOL. That's barely any difference at all. So how can you tout Canon's score while saying, "forget Sony" when they score 77.4 and 77.3 respectively?!?

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 16:55 UTC
In reply to:

keepreal: I am less of a fan of DPR than I used to be because the quality and content of its articles have declined, but I have to say this one is very balanced and fair minded.

Yes, it makes sense that the relatively new kid on the block goes overboard with innovation to attract interest and the best of what Sony has achieved is impressive.

However, who needs all this? Even the two big established leaders offer more than most people need. That is not to decry progress, so much as to point out that many of the enthusiasts are not keen, accomplished photographers so much as equipment collectors and big spenders.

"Both are just a way of using up raw materials and energy so that the quality of life for future generations will begin to suffer earlier."

Ah, ok, so now new cameras are going to be the downfall of humanity. Got it.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 16:44 UTC
In reply to:

keepreal: I am less of a fan of DPR than I used to be because the quality and content of its articles have declined, but I have to say this one is very balanced and fair minded.

Yes, it makes sense that the relatively new kid on the block goes overboard with innovation to attract interest and the best of what Sony has achieved is impressive.

However, who needs all this? Even the two big established leaders offer more than most people need. That is not to decry progress, so much as to point out that many of the enthusiasts are not keen, accomplished photographers so much as equipment collectors and big spenders.

"many of the enthusiasts are not keen, accomplished photographers so much as equipment collectors and big spenders."

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can be both. You can be a good photographer and still enjoy collecting equipment.

But you also have to remember that there are new photographers entering the market every day. The market isn't just about selling to 50+ year old users who already have vast collections of gear. A lot of this new camera gear is aimed at the future generation of photographers who are building their gear collection right now, or will be. These new cameras cater to their technological expectations, not to the expectations of older photographers who grew up on SLRs and who wonder, "Who needs all of these gizmo features? I just need one focus point in the center of the viewfinder."

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 16:42 UTC
In reply to:

keepreal: I am less of a fan of DPR than I used to be because the quality and content of its articles have declined, but I have to say this one is very balanced and fair minded.

Yes, it makes sense that the relatively new kid on the block goes overboard with innovation to attract interest and the best of what Sony has achieved is impressive.

However, who needs all this? Even the two big established leaders offer more than most people need. That is not to decry progress, so much as to point out that many of the enthusiasts are not keen, accomplished photographers so much as equipment collectors and big spenders.

"However, who needs all this?"

No one "needs" any of this stuff. But if you're in the market for new camera gear, it's nice to have choices. And isn't it nice to have an alternative to DSLRs or the "big two established leaders"? I think most people feel it's nice to have alternatives, especially when they offer things that the status quo products or brands don't offer.

As for "who needs all of this", who needs yet another updated version of the 70-200/2.8L and 70-200/4L? How much true practical difference are you really going to get compared to previous versions?

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1190653250/report-canon-to-release-new-70-200mm-f4l-and-f2-8l-lenses-next-month

That's kind of the problem when you just have two established big brands dominating the market. They can just keep re-hashing the same products with minor tweaks, rather than really innovating. It's just more of the same. At least when you have a new contender, it can spur innovation and new product development.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 16:31 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@cbphoto123 - You just seem to get easily bent out of shape, for whatever reason. Like I said, these reviews are a resource. Watch them, and formulate your own opinion. And don't just watch one review. The web is rife with many reviewers. Don't take any one review as "gospel." But I do think there is a value to the quantity of reviewers that get invited to these events to try out the gear. I think they all keep themselves honest, because they are all competing for the trust of their viewers and competing to produce the best, most objective, most informative review. In this way, competition is a good thing.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 14:40 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@cbphoto123 - "all the while, they are also making the assumption that everything they read on DPR is 100% objective, with no bias whatsoever."

Actually, I think people are smarter than that. I think we all realize, in this day and age, that nothing is ever 100% free of bias, or 100% objective. That's what's so great about video reviews and tests. Video allows us to see performance demonstrated. A lot more can be conveyed, seen, observed in video than simply reading something that someone writes. In the end, people watch these videos and can decide for themselves. You also have to consider the value of quantity. By allowing so MANY reviewers to come to these launches and allowing so MANY of them to try this gear out, it allows people to see a wide variety of opinions and perspectives from a broad range of reviewers.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 14:37 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@cbphoto123 - These reviews are a resource. Use them as you please. It's certainly better to have them than to not have them! People can watch them and decide for themselves. Why do you have a problem with people watching and deciding for themselves?

When you say "skew reviews favorably", you seem to imply that reviewers will outright lie about the performance of a product! LOL. The reality is that the performance of a product will still speak for itself, and reviewers will report on that performance, whether it's good or bad. Reviewers certainly have done that. Do you even watch any of these reviews? LOL. Or are you just making assumptions? These reviews all point out good things and bad things about these cameras.

As for influence these events may create, yes, it shows that Sony is serious about their products and has enough confidence in them that they can put these new products through these demanding situations Sony provides. And these events showcase this performance.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 14:29 UTC
In reply to:

roustabout66: For all their "innovation" Sony has not yet built their own service/repair facilities in America as far as I know. Until they are on a par with Canon and Nikon in terms of support and repair I will not even consider purchasing one of their products.

@cbphoto123 - My point is that Sony is just getting started. They are literally *just* stepping their toes into the pro market. And with that will come pro support. Sony did that in the pro video industry, and they'll do that in the pro photo industry. But nothing happens instantaneously. Things happen in stages. But you can bet that Sony will certainly have pro support for the 2020 Olympics. I think a lot of what Sony has been doing has been in preparation for the 2020 Olympics, from introducing the A9 last year, to the eventual launch of telephotos, and even to the launch of the A7 III this year. We can see that Sony has definitely been playing the long game.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 14:17 UTC
In reply to:

roustabout66: For all their "innovation" Sony has not yet built their own service/repair facilities in America as far as I know. Until they are on a par with Canon and Nikon in terms of support and repair I will not even consider purchasing one of their products.

@cbphoto123 - Here's the deal: with every criticism that is leveled at Sony, they steadily address that issue or challenge. That's what good companies do. It's a process of iteration, evolution, maturation. We are certainly seeing this with Sony. People forget that Canon and Nikon took years to build up their pro services. But as for Sony, people forget that Sony already has considerable experience supporting the pro video and broadcast industry. The difference is that Sony is MASSIVE in pro video and broadcasting, so they have the massive network to support it. The reality is that there just aren't a lot of pro Sony photography shooters yet. So their pro camera support system is proportional to their current pool of pro photographers: small. Have people forgotten that Sony just released their first pro flagship body last year? Have people forgotten that Sony's pool of pro photographers is still in its infancy? But as I said, Sony is rapidly maturing and evolving in this realm.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 14:08 UTC
In reply to:

tomO2013: It's a fair analysis of the current state of technology and technical iteration within the industry. Sony is iterating a lot faster than most and bringing some realy cool technologies to play e.g. continuous eye af etc....
Sony are also investing very heavily in courting the reviewing media and blogging press with some incredible trips:
- Kando conference (flights, accomodation).
- A7riii (hot air balloon rides, flights, meals, accomodation)
- A7iii (dune buggies, helicopter rides over the grand canyon) etc...
- Sailing trips etc....

These are quite costly when you consider that they are doing this for 200 people. Gone are the days where media are flown out to a cheap hotel, a camera company ceo puts up a few powerpoint slides, review cameras are handed out and that is that!
On the flip side, Sony's new style of launch does foster a sense of (what I feel is understandable) skepticism among the buying public. The products are good enough on their own - why the need for helicopters

@cbphoto123 - At the end of the day, the wrath of subscriber feedback has more influence on reviewers than Sony does. After all, it's their subscribers that give these Youtubers the clout to be invited by Sony in the first place. If reviewers are considered unreliable, they get a backlash from subscribers and commenters. Furthermore, commenters can easily push back on any overly-positive reviews that these reviewers make. Viewers also can "like" or "dislike". Plus, what these videos provide is immediate observation and confirmation of actual performance. If a reviewer encounters a problem, that gets on video and gets reported (as reviewers certainly have). Jared Polin was the first to report the Sony striping situation, and he certainly has been invited to subsequent Sony launches:
Jun 26, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv1JCHfXDdY

Mar 4, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzvcFG2V_CA&t=185s

I'd rather watch a Youtuber critique a product over watching an Agassi ad any day.

Link | Posted on May 16, 2018 at 13:57 UTC
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