Najinsky

Joined on Feb 21, 2006

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On article Lensbaby unveils Creative Bokeh and Sweet 80 optics (6 comments in total)

Why are beautiful girls being used to promote this? Didn't we just have an extended thread about how Nikon's sexism will ruin them?

For me personally, the meme of an ugly bloke behind the lens, and a beautiful girl in front of it works pretty well. But I'm not selfish and I understand that my memes are not everyone else's memes.

Please can you post some shots of a fat ugly bloke also demonstrating that sweet bokeh? I'm sure this will go a long way in explaining the important difference between a technical feature and an exploitative one.

Link | Posted on Sep 20, 2017 at 15:45 UTC as 3rd comment

I do so hate seeing only the 'before' shot in a before-after sequence.

The 'after' shot is so much more appealing:

http://soi38dc.com/wp-content/uploads/Goong-Pao-988x988.jpg

Link | Posted on Sep 20, 2017 at 15:22 UTC as 5th comment
In reply to:

AshMills: Is Apple a patent holder for HEIF perchance?

@Najinsky: "Can the attempts at scaremongering stop now maybe?"

Alas, as I feared, the answer is No.

Guys, it's your brain. Abuse it as you see fit. Najinsky, out.

Link | Posted on Sep 20, 2017 at 14:52 UTC
In reply to:

Mikhail Konovalov: Everyone (except only NameFinder below? Perhaps I overlooked or misread someone else) seems to be comfortable with the idea of online-only conversion. Strangely enough, especially considering the recent indignation with Adobe subscription affair, there's no flooding demand of an installable offline converter. If silence remains, the offer will silently remain as well. Let's start the outcry already. It's never too early.

Or maybe I'm too retarded to appreciate the near future with no local storage at all, the pictures being directly uploaded to some cloud depository and accessisble from there on demand, handy for all.

(No iOS user here, either. Just noticing the tendedncy).

No it's not that. It's simply that the linked website in the article won't actually be needed by the vast majority of users.

For the vast majority of phone users who work via apps, this is essentially a transparent, under the hood change that will simply result in smaller file sizes for photos and videos captured by the phone.

Whenever an App is used to send the photo to Facebook/Flickr/Instagram/etc the user will simply select the photo and it will be added to the app/site in the required format, exactly as before.

It is only a relatively small number of users, who send actual files around between systems, who may discover they have ended up with a.heic file that they may need to convert to jpeg (or something else) to view it. Apple usually have the most obvious bases covered so hopefully even this number will be very small.

The site listed is just a convenience. There are options for converting locally, offline, should you have a need too.

Link | Posted on Sep 20, 2017 at 04:08 UTC
In reply to:

AshMills: Is Apple a patent holder for HEIF perchance?

My question to MPEG LA re HEVC/HEIF:

"In sharing my videos and photos to blogs and various websites, there is a possibility that some of these photos or videos may at some time acquire some commercial value, either through monetized blogging, licenses or royalties for their use and reproduction.
...
Please could you send me the appropriate license packet, if needed."

The reply:

"Thank you for contacting MPEG LA. We appreciate hearing from you and I will be happy to assist you.

For your background, included in the royalty paid by Apple for their HEVC Products is the right for their customers to encode/decode HEVC video content. In that case, your use of Apple's HEVC Product described below would be covered under Apple's HEVC royalty paid to MPEG LA.

If you have any questions or need further assistance, please contact me directly."

Seems very clear cut to me. Can the attempts at scaremongering stop now maybe?

Link | Posted on Sep 20, 2017 at 00:34 UTC
In reply to:

AshMills: Is Apple a patent holder for HEIF perchance?

@Astrotripper "Now, you may choose to ignore this, like literally everyone does. But that does not change the facts from the legal perspective."

IANAL but it seems to me the facts from a legal perspective are never clear cut until there are fully tested in court.

Most EULA I've seen (with nearly 40 years experience in commercial IT I have seen way too many) usually start with caveats such as "where allowed by law" or similar.

These are their best attempt to express their rights to enforce their valid claims over their intelectual property.

As a software developer, author and photographer, I have some sympathy with people wanting to protect their IP from being stolen.

EULA rights aside, 10 years later, it is patently obvious (ho, ho) that MPEGLA have not in fact engaged in commercial shakedowns of the end users of their H.264 technology.

Still, just for chits and giggles, I just emailed MPEGLA asking them what licensing I need to use iPhone HEIF photos on a monetized blog.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 21:16 UTC
In reply to:

Paul B Jones: This heif / heic thing seems like big news, warranting a stand alone article, not just a note on a file converter.

It appears they are preparing one, well an iOS11 update story at least. It briefly popped up a short while ago, then swiftly disappeared. No doubt it will be back again soon.

Maybe double checking the comment system can handle the stress, lol.

Or perhaps turning the HEIF part of the announcement into its own article, as you suggested?

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 19:30 UTC
In reply to:

ozturert: So how will my wife share her photos with me and family? We don't use IPhone. She will have to convert my daughter's photos before sharing? That would be cumbersome.

Ozturert, it will all work exactly the same as usual.

The only thing your wife will notice is that she will have capacity for a lot more photos/video on her phone.

Pretty much everything to do with the photo storage and sharing is transparent and handled by automatically in the background.

There may be a few unseen glitches that come to light once millions start using it for real, that's just how it is with software sometimes, but if there is, it will quickly be addressed.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 19:24 UTC
In reply to:

Najinsky: Good luck Apple.

This is a brave move and one many photographers will eventually thank you for when all the flack has died down (and boy will there be flack, lol).

I'm really looking forward to saying goodbye to 8 bit color and hello to higher quality 10bit color. I just hope camera makers are fast to realize this and the many other benefits it brings and get on board sooner rather than later.

3.5 mm jack ports? How quaint!

Single utility ports have gradually been replaced with more versatile universal ports for decades.

Parallel for printers, gone.
Serial for modems, gone.
SCSI for hard drives, gone.
DIN for keyboards, gone.
PS/2 for keyboard/mice, gone.
DVI/VGA/S-Video, going, going, gone.

If you look carefully you'll spot a trend. Some people see it early, others like to wait and see. And for sure you'll have your laggards who'll never get it and the only way you'll get their RJ11 cable from them is to pry it out of their cold dead hand.

But most get it, eventually.

You should have heard how people complained when Apple dropped the floppy disk, but today, not so much.

And those bloggers calling Apple dumb for dropping the DVD, well their clicks stopped, so now they fill their space with reviews of how the latest Asus XYZ is so much better than the MacBook/Air.

Truth be told, without Apple to hate on, they'd be bored stupid, or out of a job.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 11:39 UTC
In reply to:

AshMills: Is Apple a patent holder for HEIF perchance?

Astrotripper: "Either way, you will not be able to fully utilize it without a proper license. Same as video stuff."

Here comes the FUD machine, LOL.

When you buy a 4K TV it plays your 4K content. How? Because the TV manufacturer licensed the dozens of technologies needed to make a TV work; licenses for signal transmission, remote and direct control systems, Dolby surround sound, video decoding, connection ports, etc, etc.

It's not just TVs either, its the same for the phones you buy, your fridges, computers, coffee machines, cars, medicines, even your foods and of course...

our cameras:

Sensor? Licences
Battery? Licences
Display? Licences
SD/CF storage? Licences
USB port? Licences
HDMI port? Licences
H.264 video? Licences

That last one is funny. In 2010 the internet was awash with claims that H.264 would kill consumer video due to patents and licensing.....

When I was a child my big brother used to pretend to be a ghost to scare me.

The internet reminds me of my childhood.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 10:34 UTC
In reply to:

melgross: From what Apple has said, if sending images to those that can’t use this, it will convert them to jpegs, using Apple’s proprietary conversion algorithms.

That means that this isn’t really needed.

NJ: You likely already have multiple compression steps. If you capture the image in JPG and then edit/crop/resize to send it somewhere, the edited jpg is already being recompressed. The place you are sending it to (e.g. Facebook) may be recompressing it too. At the end of the chain, all that really matters is your images still look good.

As full support for HEIF becomes more common, you'll simply gain more options to keep your image looking better further down the chain.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 09:44 UTC
In reply to:

h2k: "There are a lot of advantages to the HEIC format"
---
And i have a lot of prejudices against storing my snaps in an Apple format - and against converting my snaps via web upload. Who'd do this?

HEIF will start as an additional choice. You have had a choice to upload jpg or png to DPR for quite a while. Each format has its benefits.

JPG is efficient for photos with exifs so people can see how an image was captured.

PNG is lossless, so is good for side by side comparisons of outputs from different raw converters, or sharpening techniques.

Many websites offer you choices for your uploads. HEIF or HEVC will gradually gain adoption, simply as an additional choice.

But once support is widely adopted and the benefits are seen and appreciated, it will become a defacto standard and it will start to feel increasingly strange to use a less efficient format.

The benefits are real, the first time you upload a HEIF to a site that supports it you'll find it faster because of the smaller file size being sent over the internet.

Eventually you'll see sites that don't support it as wasting your time and bandwidth and costing you more money on your data plan.

It's already happening.

Link | Posted on Sep 19, 2017 at 09:14 UTC
In reply to:

h2k: "There are a lot of advantages to the HEIC format"
---
And i have a lot of prejudices against storing my snaps in an Apple format - and against converting my snaps via web upload. Who'd do this?

It's based on the video compression standard HEVC from the MPEG group, also known as H.265 or MPEG-H Part 2. Samsung adopted it for their NX1 camera, DJI are using it for their drone video, and Nokia are involved in various was too.

Decoding is built into most recent 4K smart TVs from Sony, Samsung, LG etc.

It's just a much superior format, so Apple have decided to adopt it.

The standard allows for the file to contain a collection of related images, for example, a copy of the raw and a copy of the processed image, or a sequence from a focus stack that can be used to refocus the image interactively, or a very large panorama and hi res images tiles that map into the panorama so you can just keep zooming in and zooming in and keep seeing finer and finer details.

And much more.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 23:55 UTC
In reply to:

NJOceanView: This is helpful -- thanks. I also understand that a Settings option will allow you to continue to save your photos as traditional JPEGs, which is what I will do as I dump my photos off my phone frequently enough to not have an issue with it.

I haven't seen that explicitly stated yet but heard conflicting reports, some to the same effect (the dependencies are a bit complicated). However, I'm pretty sure, at least if my understanding of some of the developer conference sessions is right, that decode is supported, so the encode can still be done in software by 3rd party apps, and the files will be supported. But I agree it's been hard getting clear cut facts on some of the details.

If you have and good technical links you could share, I'd be grateful.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 21:01 UTC
In reply to:

BRPWS: is this new format also bringing in raw files and changing them the new format? If so how is the raw file itself protected or is it simply destroyed?

No. If you choose to shoot raw you get the raw.

If you choose to shoot JPG, then like every camera, the camera processes the raw and saves just the JPG.

Only now, if you choose to shoot HEIF, the camera processes the raw and just saves the HEIF, exactly the same except the file size will be smaller so the phone won't fill up as fast.

If you choose to shoot HEIF (higher quality / HDR) then the raw will be processed into a higher quality 10 bit file and that will be saved.

If you shoot raw+jpg or raw+HEIF then both will be saved.

We will have to see when the dust settles on the final release as to which features will be available natively and which will need to use 3rd party camera apps.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:49 UTC

Good luck Apple.

This is a brave move and one many photographers will eventually thank you for when all the flack has died down (and boy will there be flack, lol).

I'm really looking forward to saying goodbye to 8 bit color and hello to higher quality 10bit color. I just hope camera makers are fast to realize this and the many other benefits it brings and get on board sooner rather than later.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:37 UTC as 28th comment | 3 replies
In reply to:

melgross: From what Apple has said, if sending images to those that can’t use this, it will convert them to jpegs, using Apple’s proprietary conversion algorithms.

That means that this isn’t really needed.

Yes, we will need to see how it all plays out in reality, most things should have been thought through and catered for (lol, famous last words) but it certainly doesn't hurt to have a free conversion option available in case it is needed for any reason.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:30 UTC
In reply to:

NJOceanView: This is helpful -- thanks. I also understand that a Settings option will allow you to continue to save your photos as traditional JPEGs, which is what I will do as I dump my photos off my phone frequently enough to not have an issue with it.

You might want to reconsider that at some point. While one use of HEIF is to use more efficient compression to store an image in a smaller file, another use of HEIF is to instead use that saved space to keep a higher quality file using approximately the same space as a regular JPEG.

These higher quality files have 10bit color data rather than the 8 bit used for JPEG. As a photographer, this is the aspect of HEIF that really excites me.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:26 UTC
In reply to:

FasterQuieter: Isn't it supposed to be Heif, pronounced heef? I keep seeing Heic now and it is getting confusing.

HEIF (being promoted as pronounced heef) is the name of the specification for the format, High Efficiency Image File format.

HEIC is the file type that people still using file systems will see when they see the file name. For example IMG1234.heic

Think of it like a JPEG file with a name IMG1234.JPG. JPEG is the specification for the format and .JPG was the original file type back when tile type extensions were only 3 letters and upper case. On later file systems .jpg and .jpeg could be used interchangeably.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:20 UTC
In reply to:

Alphaville: Will the existing photos in the phone also be converted to HEIC format?

No, only new photos to start with.

But any old photos you edit will generate the edited copies in the new format and you'll get the space saving benefit from that (iOS never changes your originals so edited images are stored as a 2nd copy and the original is hidden unless you choose to revert to the original).

Many options will likely spring up very quickly to convert, but no doubt the wording will be very scary as it will essentially be creating a new version and then deleting the old one. That 'deleting the old one' part will no doubt turn into billions of varieties of disinformation, lol.

Link | Posted on Sep 18, 2017 at 20:05 UTC
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