Impulses

Lives in Puerto Rico Puerto Rico
Works as a student
Joined on Apr 7, 2013

Comments

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On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

beavertown: Overpriced stuff, not much cost to develop such lens nowadays, it reminds me of the no on own $899 1 Nikkor 32mm F1.2

The new Sigma 16/1.2 will be an interesting comparison and that's sealed... Isn't the Sony/CZ APS-C 24mm also weather sealed?

Fuji's sealed equivalent is 'only' f2 but a lot of M4/3 users would kill for any cheaper/slower yet sealed primes (pretty much all have been premium designs outside the 60mm macro... 8mm f1.8 Pro FE, PL12, 17/25/45 f1.2 Pro, 300/4 Pro... might've forgotten something).

This obviously doesn't fill that hole, but the point is it's not totally devoid of competition within or outside the system.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 04:45 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

waldoh: Disregarding compression.

17 1.2 = ~35 1.2 (2.4 DoF) - $1199
35 1.4 FF = ~$1500
35 1.8/2-2.8 FF = ~$500

M4/3 is cool and useful in video and to shed weight but these prices are quite high.
I think I would take a small FF body with a slower 1.8-2.8 lens and rely on the sensor size advantages for any low light (non flash) photography.

Hell 23mm (35 equiv) aps-c lenses can be had for $400-$800. Same size body, bigger sensor, less money.

So? Goes great with my PL8-18 & the other 35-100 too. ;)

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 04:38 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Infared: Just sold my Nocticron and took delivery on the 45mm f1.2 PRO. It feels and performs so "right" on my E-M1 II !!! It has this great organic look to the image, too...with super-smooth bokeh.. I feel that the slightly lighter weight smaller size, shorter hood and faster focusing, make the handling superb compared to the Nocticron. No unneeded aperture ring or IS, either. Just a fantastic lens.
The 17mm PRO will be my next lens and then I will have the whole f/1.2 PRO triad. These lenses really make photography so much fun! Does anyone know when the 17mm's will start shipping in January?

That's interesting, even the hood design is sort of a role reversal... Early Oly premium primes (12, 75, etc.) all had that terrible (IMO) thumbscrew tightened hood design, metal might look nice and all but it's not super practical in a hood. Heck Oly didn't even include said hoods with the lenses (or any of their lenses early on).

Mind you, Pana has had plenty of awful hood designs too... The PL25's square hood is just silly and the 35-100 f2.8's is seemingly longer than that of any lens in the system for some unfathomable reason (seriously, it's like 2/3rds the length of the lens). The Pro prime hoods sound like the PL8-18's, which I like a lot, I think it's the only OEM hood I've used consistently.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 04:34 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Triplet Perar: Let me explain the part people don't really "get" with these premium m4/3 lenses. An FF lens cannot keep look of its bokeh when stopped down to gain more workable DoF: you gain DoF, but kill the bokeh. And if you like bokeh, the DoF is so thin it is impossible to work with; or must move farther away, which, again, changes the composition and needed magnification.
Premium designs for m4/3 solve those problems, and such lenses deliver best of both worlds. (1) More DoF is better to avoid errors when shooting dynamically, with less focusing mistakes especially in portraiture. (2) Bokeh at f/1.2 is made NOT to match f/2.4 bokeh of a conventional aspherical design, which is very messy, but SURPASS it by far. The lens allows optical design (with more elements but with less thickness of glass) to render bokeh as if made with a much faster portrait lens of a classic design with fewer elements.
For those who really understand this, the m4/3 becomes best thing since sliced bread!

I'm sorry but that's just hogwash. Even this 17/1.2's bokeh improves in some regards as it's stopped down (tho not in all senses)... Transitions might get sharper when it's stopped down (to not get into the whole feathered hype) but bokeh balls also get rounder and lose that cat's eye look at the edges. Which of the two you prefer is really quite subjective, but there's a number of changes for better or worse as it's stopped down, as with any lens.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 04:25 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Michiel953: Halfway through the gallery (on a decent calibrated screen), and they are impressive. Compliments to the photographers for presenting such a well thought out range of well observed images.

Now how much is a Pen-F, 24, 35, 50 and 85 "EQUIVALENT" set-up, at this f1.2 quality level again?

" Sorry, but we cannot compare those lenses with FF ones, we don't have f3.6 equivalent primes lol. " -ZeBebito

I actually wish we did... There's a few small f2.8 FF primes and many of them strike a really nice size/performance balance, if there were even more I might be shooting FF instead of M4/3 primarily.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 03:10 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Infared: Just sold my Nocticron and took delivery on the 45mm f1.2 PRO. It feels and performs so "right" on my E-M1 II !!! It has this great organic look to the image, too...with super-smooth bokeh.. I feel that the slightly lighter weight smaller size, shorter hood and faster focusing, make the handling superb compared to the Nocticron. No unneeded aperture ring or IS, either. Just a fantastic lens.
The 17mm PRO will be my next lens and then I will have the whole f/1.2 PRO triad. These lenses really make photography so much fun! Does anyone know when the 17mm's will start shipping in January?

Huh, I didn't realize the Nocti was actually larger... That might be one of the few instances in the system where Panasonic's rough equivalent to an Oly lens is actually larger and/or one of the few instances where OIS took it's toll on the design (unlike say, 45/1.8 vs 42.5/1.7, etc).

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 03:02 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Prognathous: Images look good, but don't justify the $1200 price tag unless one insists on using m43 to get this look.

" Insist on using M4/3 to get this look " sounds rather condescending, even if not meant to... I'm invested in the system and happy with it for most purposes, a wide prime is literally the only place where I've wished for more DoF control, this fulfills that need as well as my wish for a sealed prime. Guess I insist...

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 02:49 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Mateus1: Pricely, big glass with f2.4 depth of field and paired with tiny sensor in big (almost FF) body... Too many reasons to not buy it.

" no one will get this lens beside GH4/GH5 owners. these camera floods the market share already. "

E-M5 II & GM1 / GX850 owner here, preordered one, guess I dunno what I'm doing.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 02:45 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

waldoh: Disregarding compression.

17 1.2 = ~35 1.2 (2.4 DoF) - $1199
35 1.4 FF = ~$1500
35 1.8/2-2.8 FF = ~$500

M4/3 is cool and useful in video and to shed weight but these prices are quite high.
I think I would take a small FF body with a slower 1.8-2.8 lens and rely on the sensor size advantages for any low light (non flash) photography.

Hell 23mm (35 equiv) aps-c lenses can be had for $400-$800. Same size body, bigger sensor, less money.

Goes great with my tiny 2x2" 35-100 & 42.5/1.7 tho!

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 02:43 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Triplet Perar: Let me explain the part people don't really "get" with these premium m4/3 lenses. An FF lens cannot keep look of its bokeh when stopped down to gain more workable DoF: you gain DoF, but kill the bokeh. And if you like bokeh, the DoF is so thin it is impossible to work with; or must move farther away, which, again, changes the composition and needed magnification.
Premium designs for m4/3 solve those problems, and such lenses deliver best of both worlds. (1) More DoF is better to avoid errors when shooting dynamically, with less focusing mistakes especially in portraiture. (2) Bokeh at f/1.2 is made NOT to match f/2.4 bokeh of a conventional aspherical design, which is very messy, but SURPASS it by far. The lens allows optical design (with more elements but with less thickness of glass) to render bokeh as if made with a much faster portrait lens of a classic design with fewer elements.
For those who really understand this, the m4/3 becomes best thing since sliced bread!

Not sure I buy that argument, and I preordered the lens FWIW. Did Olympus prioritize bokeh to an extent without sacrificing sharpness? Sure, probably... Everything else sounds like a gross generalization.

Link | Posted on Dec 11, 2017 at 02:42 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

deep7: Something's broken. All the photo information is showing up across the photo, instead of in the proper place to the right. What's happened?

Weirdly on mobile you still get a clean full screen view of the samples.

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 21:27 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Michiel953: Halfway through the gallery (on a decent calibrated screen), and they are impressive. Compliments to the photographers for presenting such a well thought out range of well observed images.

Now how much is a Pen-F, 24, 35, 50 and 85 "EQUIVALENT" set-up, at this f1.2 quality level again?

Ehh, Sigma is putting out a 16/1.4 and there's MF f0.95 Voigtlanders, neither seems to have much bearing on Oly or Pana's pricing (tho the Voigtlanders might've opened the door to move beyond $1K primes, since they did seem to sell)... If anything I would think Fuji's pricing should/could have more of an impact (or the gap between an equivalent Panasonic offering, tho that's less likely).

I agree with your overall point tho, and Paco did open a can of worms this comments thread isn't likely to recover from. :P

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 19:44 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

pictureAngst: What is it with reviews of 35mm equiv lenses focussing on depth of field so much?

Even when I shot with fast ‘real’ 35s (including the Summicron ‘King of Bokeh’) it was never my first choice (or even second) for thin DOF shots - that’s what 85s and higher are for.

Am I missing something?

Not saying you don't have a point as well btw, but there's also shots in the gallery that aren't about thin DoF... Could there be more? Possibly.

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 19:39 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

pictureAngst: What is it with reviews of 35mm equiv lenses focussing on depth of field so much?

Even when I shot with fast ‘real’ 35s (including the Summicron ‘King of Bokeh’) it was never my first choice (or even second) for thin DOF shots - that’s what 85s and higher are for.

Am I missing something?

Not everyone follows the same rules... Or has the same technique & habits.

https://m.dpreview.com/videos/9908853464/lens-technique-wide-angle-portraiture-with-the-sigma-24-35mm-f2-dg-hsm-art

Plus shooting wide open is more likely to highlight (no pun intended) any lens flaws FWIW, a lot of perfectly focused shots at f4 might not tell nearly as much about how the lens performs and where it falters.

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 19:37 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)

Thanks for the sheer breadth of the gallery! Quite a few great shots in it too... Much more useful than other early sample galleries I've seen with the 17/1.2 (can only see the same jockey so many times...).

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 19:12 UTC as 55th comment
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

whumber: I own both the 45 Pro and 25 Pro and have been very happy with both. I have to say though that seeing the samples here I think the 17 Pro is DOA.

There is indeed a weird doughnut quality to the OOF tree lights there if you peep them, dunno if that's entirely the lens' fault tho, it doesn't seem to show up in other OOF point light sources...

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 19:09 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Gimli son of Gloin: Sorely needed lens for the system although pricey when compared to the competition. Nice bokeh when up close but a bit nervous when far and few cat eye shaped ones closer to the corner.

Sony/CZ 24/1.8 would be the other most obvious comparo... Along with the Fuji 23/1.4 and the 23/2 to an extent (I think only the latter is sealed?), which I alluded to already, and any real discussion (if you actually intend to use them and not just play on paper) would have to include things like AF speed, rendering, etc. (in addition to IQ and actual speed of course)

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 18:59 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Gimli son of Gloin: Sorely needed lens for the system although pricey when compared to the competition. Nice bokeh when up close but a bit nervous when far and few cat eye shaped ones closer to the corner.

Ehh, most of the people shooting a crop/smaller format made a conscious choice IMO (or should've, really), it's real competition will be Fuji's primes (which are priced a more aggressively than M4/3's premium primes despite the overall system being pricier) and stuff like the Sigma 16/1.4. The latter will be an interesting comparison.

Sure in isolation you could make comparisons to something like the far smaller Sony/CZ 35/2.8, but I think a lot of people will either shoot multiple systems/formats if they're that involved in photography, or they'll stick to crop (or FF or whatever)... One prime isn't gonna convert anyone one way or the other despite the rhetoric.

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 18:52 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Edmond Leung: Bokeh is still a challenge for M43 even you use this f1.2 lens.
Small sensor size is the key of the problem.

" But whatever. The shooting envelope of MFT just got wider, once again. " - Astrotripper

I see what you did there... ;P

In all seriousness, the system's ability to scale up/down was one of the things that drew me in and it's definitely only gotten better with time.

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 18:43 UTC
On article Olympus 17mm F1.2 Pro sample gallery (413 comments in total)
In reply to:

Michiel953: Halfway through the gallery (on a decent calibrated screen), and they are impressive. Compliments to the photographers for presenting such a well thought out range of well observed images.

Now how much is a Pen-F, 24, 35, 50 and 85 "EQUIVALENT" set-up, at this f1.2 quality level again?

That being said, that's kind of a binary all or nothing scenario. I've preordered the 17/1.2 because it's my favorite FL and will do things my current prime of choice at that FL can't (20/1.7 pancake). It's a splurge for sure but the rest of my kit remains far smaller and the vast majority of lenses in it (outside of the PL8-18) were far cheaper too (original 35-100 I bought on sale for $750 FWIW, and the 12/2 was a refurb, in case anyone goes running to the gear list).

I think they'll probably sell far more of these to people like me than people looking for a whole set, FWIW, and/or people with a good mix of tiny zooms. My 7.5/2, 12/2, 20/1.7, 42.5/1.7 and the various compact zooms (12-32, 35-100 x2) already meet my needs at those FLs, the 17/1.2 is literally the end of my M4/3 wishlist and the only FL where I've actually wanted less DoF with a prime (and better AF, and sealing, one stone - multiple birds in my case).

Link | Posted on Dec 10, 2017 at 18:40 UTC
Total: 2877, showing: 141 – 160
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