MichaelKJ
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What's that Noise?Shedding some light on the sources of noise
2457FeatureWhat is equivalence?
marcio_napoli: There surely must be a design difficulty, but the single most desirable feature this camera should have remains lacking: ISO 25 or below.
This is primarily a filmmaker's tool. Video on this thing is essentially shot at 1/50 shutter speed + large aperture, like all movies are shot.
Good luck with enough ND filters trying to keep your exposure correct in daylight ISO 100 (or 200), f1.4 to f2.8, and 1/50 SS.
ISO 25 would help immensely on that.
Also, m4/3 sensors are super noisy even at base ISO (GH4 owner here).
ISO 25 would clean up those shadows a lot, making filmmakers' life much easier on grading and chroma key shots.
Even better would be ISO 12.
@marco_napoli My understanding is that a sensor performs best at its base ISO. For example, see the following comment about the D810, which has a base of 64 but can be set at 32:
"the D810's base ISO is 64. At all setting above or below that, any setting is the equivalent of turning up the gain (effectively, the volume) on a pre-amp. As gain is increased or decreased two things can happen- the effective dynamic range is decreased (with the d810 , up to about ISO 1600 this decrease is negligible) and there's a change in the signal to noise ratio. With the D810 and most of the latest generation full frame and APS-C cameras the increase on the noise side is almost non-existent from base ISO to 400, and not very noticeable unless you are "pixel peeping" from 400 to 3200 and is easily handled with noise reduction algorithms in your raw processing software with out a loss of detail resolution." https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/nikon-d810-with-iso-64-32.494930/
Donnie G: Canon is on track to become the #1seller of mirrorless ILCs worldwide before the end of this year as predicted. Their soon to be released M6 will help to seal the deal for them, but the M5 was clearly the right product at the right time. So while the couch potato CEOs here bashed Canon for being 'too late to the mirrorless party" or for not trying to match its competition spec for spec, Canon steadfastly stuck to their plan and grew a substantial base of real customers for their mirrorless products. Canon's ILC marketshare continues to grow. So who's marketshare is shrinking? :))
Do you have data to back up your claim?
salsaguy: I'd love to see the hands of all the folks here on this thread who are complaining about the lossy Sony RAW format who listen to their music in MP3 format. if you do then you should stop listening to all your music as you are liar to yourself. MP3 is so compressed compared to Full RAW CD or FLAC etc formats. But you still listen to all that loss in music high fidelity and buy the mp3 format instead of getting the CD and ripping your own formats to your own player! Sacrilege for sure. wake up
People have different priorities (duh). Just as there are audiophiles who could care less about camera IQ there are camera enthusiasts who are happy listening to music in MP3 format.
Great shot! Btw, what is that in the background to the right of the Met?
justmeMN: Most people who buy interchangeable lens cameras never go beyond the kit lens. In the long run, I suspect that large-sensor-compacts will push MILC into an even smaller niche.
I agree but would argue that all ILCS, not just MILCs, will suffer from the increasing popularity of large sensor fixed lens cameras.
"the NX1 could usurp the DH4 as our recommendation in this product class."
I assume you meant GH4
SulfurousBeast: Anyone think "made in china" LX100 is a dampener or even a deal breaker? Sort of this premium compact losing its cachet? Wonder where the Typ109 is made, dont want a made in China Leica, that's me though... But guess a lot of you out there thnking along the same lines...?
@lackikuss Product quality depends on the standards set by the parent company. Essentially all of Apple's products are made in China and Apple's products consistently have very low defect rates. You should be attributing the problem with your D600 to Nikon, rather than blaming it on where it was made.
marc petzold: I'm wondering because DPR did the "Experiment" the 1st Time - to compare different Sensor & Camera Classes, which are simply not comparable.
Otherwise, DPR compares different FF Sensor DSLR/DSLMs, APS-C, etc...but m43 and FF - why the hell? Both cameras have their different application & niche - the A7S for lowlight photography, the GH4 mostly for video - so why the hell a comparsion? no offence.
I do also not compare 1 inch sensors to APS-C, and so on...because that simply doesn't make sense.
Next time someone comes comparsion FF to Medium Format, or an MiniCooper to a Ferrari - WTF?
@ Dr_Jon
"I’m surprised at how nice the quality is from APS-C (Super 35mm) mode on the A7S. I expected it to be a lot softer! There’s no signs of significant moire or aliasing either."
http://www.eoshd.com/content/13105/good-news-super-35mm-mode-sony-a7s-dramatically-reduces-rolling-shutter
marc petzold: I'm wondering because DPR did the "Experiment" the 1st Time - to compare different Sensor & Camera Classes, which are simply not comparable.
Otherwise, DPR compares different FF Sensor DSLR/DSLMs, APS-C, etc...but m43 and FF - why the hell? Both cameras have their different application & niche - the A7S for lowlight photography, the GH4 mostly for video - so why the hell a comparsion? no offence.
I do also not compare 1 inch sensors to APS-C, and so on...because that simply doesn't make sense.
Next time someone comes comparsion FF to Medium Format, or an MiniCooper to a Ferrari - WTF?
@marc petzold
Two professional videographers also recently reviewed both the GH4 & A7S
http://philipbloom.net/2014/08/06/a7svideoreview/
http://www.eoshd.com/content/13197/sony-a7s-x70-pinewood-studios
stratplaya: Is Kodak still "Kodak"? I wonder if the company sold the brand the same way Polaroid did.
The JK CEO, Joe Atick, lives in Florida. He is also CEO of Jaacx Distributors that is a distributor of consumer electronics products to Latin America. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-atick/a/599/862
Cameras are reportedly being produced in conjunction with Asia Optical, which is headquartered in Taiwan. Asia Optical is a large company with a market cap of $9.6 billion that was founded in 1981 and has been involved in joint ventures with Sony, Ricoh, Sharp, Pentax and Olympus.
Valiant Thor: Wow! Panasonic is running on all eight cylinders these days. I pre-ordered one on Amazon and already they are showing their "high demand" warning. I have not seen this warning on any Nikon or Canon cameras lately. Nikanon, please take note.
The high demand warning most likely reflects the ratio of preorders to the number of units Amazon expects to receive in the first shipment. Panasonic has a history of being slow to supply cameras to the US.
MV Atlanta: I am having trouble with E-M10 noise levels. Majority of the wonderful sample images in online reviews seem to be RAW based. Default JPEG noise is unacceptable above ISO800 for portraits. Both my 5 year old D300 and athe new Sony a6000 have much lower noise and significantly better dynamic range. I tried RAW and got fairly good results but do not have time for processing - this is for taking pictures of our kids to be uploaded to facebook and shared with family.
I use kit lens with 45mm 1.8 on its way. Still the lens should help with sharpness (I have problems with as well - mostly due to inaccurate focusing) but not with the noise.
I tinkered with noise reduction settings without much success. Even at ISO600 there is way more noise than one would expect. Any suggestions on settings? I know everything is relative but I am comparing it head to head with Nikon D5200 and Sony a6000 under the same settings and there is something wrong with the Olympus. Thanks.
Your opinion isn't shared by the DPR review.
Are you using "noise filter" rather than "noise reduction"?
As the review noted above: The E-M10 keeps up with its APS-C and MFT peers with retention of fine detail until ISO 6400 when things take a turn for the worse. Olympus's noise reduction setting is accessed from the menu (Custom Menu E: Noise Filter), with four options available (Off, Low, Standard and High). Confusingly there's also a 'Noise Reduction' control, but this only applies to long exposures.
pfzt: USB2? No WiFi? No GPS?
They still don't understand their competition and market.
People who are used to these features on their phones are likely to want them on an entry level DSLR.
EdBov: Comparing the K5 video score with the K3 video score: DPR finds out the K5 better???????
I believe they are totally mad.......... because the video was the reason the Pentax K5 got a bad score.
I assume the score for the K3 is based on the current state of the art in DSLR video, while the score for the K5 was based on the state of the art when it was reviewed.
pew pew: Sounds like a good camera for those wanting a power zoom camera with good video and pictures, but i´m scratching my head how this camera got a better score then the a7.
DPR folks claim that scores can't be compared across different types of cameras, which makes perfect sense (apples to oranges). Unfortunately, they don't necessarily practice what they preach because the average score for FF cameras is higher than the average for formats with smaller sensors.
Great work, Bob!
Horshack: Here's the price six months from now: $998
GH3 has dropped from $1,298 to $998 since its release about 16 months ago. Don't know why GH4 would be expected to drop in price more rapidly than GH3. Future price of GH4 will depend more on response from the video community that from still photographers.
ericsan: Canon is a conservative company wishing to protect their highly profitable DSLR's market...nothing wrong so far by not investing into mirroless segment ! When mirroless market will start to erode their DSLR's sales & leader position (if it does one day...) Canon reaction will be to launch the best mirrorless products to be N°1 on that segment !!
Perhaps you could explain why they developed the EOS-M.
Photoworks: Olympus needs to work harder on the IQ front. The IQ of the E-M1 is pretty much line-ball with the older E-M5. In fact, the past six m4/3rds from Olympus have all been fitted with 16mp sensors. The E-M1 is now as large/heavy as a full-frame camera (Sony A7/R) yet IQ quality is no better than the miniature GM1 (also fitted with a 16mp sensor).
It has only been about 2 years since Olympus first released the 16mp sensor in the E-M5. That compares favorably with the other camera makers.
As for your last comment, you could make a similarly inane criticism of the large/heavy DSLRs that have IQ no better than the smaller/lighter Sony A7/R.
JEROME NOLAS: I agree on many points why it's not selling so well outside of Asia. In America, everything is big- big Mac, big cars, and very big people :) and Olympus and Panasonic are trying to sell them vegetables in Geo Metro package....try 100 years later when we really run out of all resources!
MacBook Air is a big success and, despite Steve Jobs claim that Apple would never make a small tablet, the iPad Mini is also very popular. As for stereotyping Asians, the large phablet phones are very popular in Japan & Korea and GM has trouble meeting demand for Buicks in China.
Your argument also doesn't explain why yearly mirrorless shipments to the Americas were 45% lower in 2013 than in 2012.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2013_e.pdf