ET2

Joined on Aug 25, 2010

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Total: 1259, showing: 41 – 60
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In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

"I said buffering is slower than Canon and Nikon."

Yes, buffering is slower than Nikon, but 20 fps is not "meaningless". D5 can't do 20 fps anyway

"You dont even have clues about buffer speed for a9"

I do, that doesn't make 20 fps "meaningless" especially if you can shoot full 100meter race with it

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 20:03 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

"D5s may have a better sensor."

There is no D5s coming for next 3 or 4 years, as D5 was just released.

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 19:57 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

" Then do they need to wait while subjects are moving? "

No, they don't need to wait. They can still shoot while the buffering is clearing.

"20 FPS is meaningless with 12 bit."

You still repeating that idiotic claim even though you know that D5 14-bit has lower DR than 12 bit Sony cameras. All D5 fps are meaningless in that case.

D5 can't even do 20 fps

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 19:55 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

"Still it is limited compare to 14 bit."

Why would that be when D5 sensor captures data that can be represented with less than 12 bits? Did you see D5 review? D5 is limited as it's sensor most likely will have less DR than 12 bit A9.

By the way, now you are changing your tone. You started with extremely exaggerated and idiotic claim that 20 fps is "meaningless" because the buffer takes 36 seconds to clear, even though the buffer is large enough for an entire 100-meter race, and the person doesn't need to wait 36 seconds before they can shoot again. They can still shoot while the buffer isn't fully cleared.

Neither D5 (with lower image quality despite being 14 bits) nor Canon can do 20 fps

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 19:42 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

Are you back to 14 bit vs 12 bit topic? 12 bits Sony cameras score higher than all Canon cameras ever made and higher than Nikon D5 on dxomark. Nikon D5 sensor especially has low DR and it doesn't even need 14 bits. See dxomark. A9 12 bit will easy beat it. D5 sensor has pathetic DR. See D5 review on DPRrevew

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5-pro-dslr-review/8

As for buffer, read again what I said. No one shoots 10 seconds straight, and even if they do, they can still shoot while the buffer isn't fully cleared. It's not as if they can't shoot at all for 36 seconds.

In either case, your statement that 20 fps is meaningless because of buffer was idiotic. It obviously isn't "meaningless " if you can shoot an entire 100-meter race without filling the buffer. If that's your definition of "meaningless" then you have serious mental issues.

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 18:49 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

Sunshine7913, 20 fps is not meaningless. You need to shoot 10 seconds continuously to fill up 200+ buffer. That's Usain bolts entire 100 meters run from start to finish. Who shoots like that? If you are shooting last 5 seconds of that race or shooting a batsman hitting a ball, or 99% of other crucial moments, you don't need to shoot continuously for 10 seconds.

20 fps means there is a better chance of getting a perfect shot than with 14 fps. Twenty fps isn't "meaningless" just because buffer takes 36 seconds to clear. Also, you can still shoot if the buffer isn't fully cleared. So it's not as if you need to wait 36 seconds. You just can't go to menu or switch to video while clearing buffer, but you can still shoot earlier than 36 seconds.

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 18:37 UTC
In reply to:

Sunshine7913: The buffer is quite slow for press or sport uses. 36 sec to clear out? D5 takes only 5~10 sec to clear out all images with XQD.

PWPhotography, the body is the way it is because Sony probably are planning to use the same body to release high MP (60 or 70 MP) A9R in future. They save a lot of money in R&D and reuse parts when they release a new camera with this body next year

Link | Posted on May 2, 2017 at 18:24 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

By sports, Dxomark just means high ISO performance, and D800e might be better at high ISO than D5 when both are normalized to the same size (8 MP).

You are wrong about bit depth and EV. Read up Rishi post on this topic here (Google search).

No lenses available? 70-200 F2.8 is a perfect lens for indoor sports.

No WR? Plenty of people have used A7 cameras in rain and they survive just fine. Here is proof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7hvJTGW4BA

All this is changing the topic though. Your original point was A9 drops to 12 bits at high fps, but as I explained, 12 bits Sony cameras are rated higher than Canon and Nikon D5 both for DR and color depth. Also, you need 14 bits only at base ISO on class leading sensor (d5 has no such sensor, it's optimized for speed, not image quality). When shooting anything over base ISO, then last 2 bits will only have noise, not usable data.

Link | Posted on Apr 30, 2017 at 07:26 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

If we sort Dxomark list using portrait (which is their score for color depth)

https://www.dxomark.com/best-cameras-for-portrait-under-45200-dollars

We see A7RIII is ranked highest FF camera. They tested A7RII when it only did compressed raw (no uncompressed raw option was available back then)

A9 probably won't score high as A7RII, but I doubt it will be worse than D5 or any Canon camera ever made.

Link | Posted on Apr 29, 2017 at 19:19 UTC
On article Sony a9 Full Review: Mirrorless Redefined (2756 comments in total)
In reply to:

Niko Tod: "continuous electronic modes (anything above 5 fps) do drop the camera into 12-bit readout, so expect less dynamic range than in Single drive mode."

And that would be $4500, ma'am...

Niko Todd, if A9 is crappy because of 12 bits at high fps, then D1x and D5 must be crappier since they have lower DR than 12 bit Sony cameras. So there. Both are more expensive still more crappy than A9.

Link | Posted on Apr 29, 2017 at 19:10 UTC
On article Sony a9 Full Review: Mirrorless Redefined (2756 comments in total)
In reply to:

Niko Tod: "continuous electronic modes (anything above 5 fps) do drop the camera into 12-bit readout, so expect less dynamic range than in Single drive mode."

And that would be $4500, ma'am...

So you agree that 1Dx and D5 are both crappier than A9 and more expensive. That's good to know.

Link | Posted on Apr 29, 2017 at 17:37 UTC
On article Sony a9 Full Review: Mirrorless Redefined (2756 comments in total)
In reply to:

Niko Tod: "continuous electronic modes (anything above 5 fps) do drop the camera into 12-bit readout, so expect less dynamic range than in Single drive mode."

And that would be $4500, ma'am...

Niko Tod, why should you pay $6000 for Nikon D5 when it's DR would be lower than 12 bit A9 which is the cheaper camera?

Go read D5 reviews here and on dxomark. 12 bit A9 will easily beat it.

Link | Posted on Apr 29, 2017 at 16:55 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

NikonFanGuy, funny now you claim DR isn't an issue, even though your fellow fanboy was making an issue of 12 bits on A9 at high fps, which will only affect DR if the sensor is even capable of capturing more than 12 EV at base ISO, and D5 sensor isn't. It's sensor only needs 12 bits. Rest is a waste of bandwidth.

A9 12 bits is very likely will have more DR than D5.

Link | Posted on Apr 29, 2017 at 06:51 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

Nikon Guy, DPreview review of D5 confirms D5 low DR, just as Dxomark reported.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5-pro-dslr-review/8

Funny how two independent sites with different tests reached the same conclusion?

D5 with low DR doesn't need 14 bits. It just increases file size without adding any more DR as the sensor captures less than 12 EV of DR at the pixel level (remember we are talking about pixel level, not 8 MP normalized size that dxomark scores).

A9 12bits would easily beat 14 bits low DR on D5 as there is no usable data even at base ISO in those extra 2 bits. You need class leading sensor that might need 14 bits, but even then only at base ISO or ISO 200 max.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 19:24 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

You don't live by DXO but you don't even live by math, physics, and science either? Why would you need 16 bits if all the data the sensor is capable of recording can be represented in 14 bits? What will two extra bits add when there is no more data? If you add more bits 18, 20, 22, 24, do you think the image quality will just magically keep getting better even though the sensor can only capture 12 EV of DR? Do you think it is just that simple? just add more bits and image magically gets more DR?

Nikon D5 has low DR even at the base ISO. Why doesn't 14 bits makes D5's DR better since you claim this is all about just bits? Why have all Canon cameras lower DR despite having 2 more bits than Sony's 12 bits cameras?

It's not just Dxomark. Read DPreview for D5 and see the DR that sensor captures. It doesn't need 14 bits, and A9 12 bits is most likely to beat it, easily.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 18:40 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

FOTONOTO: So it drops to 12 bit as long as using e-shutter in continuous mode, no matter how much FPS it's set, even Continuous Lo (5FPS)?

I read that "anything above 5FPS will be 12bit" in the other artical. Is this "5FPS" for Continuous Lo mode in e-shutter, or simply just for mechanical shutter continuous speed?

I forgot to mention that D5 sensor actually ranks very low in DR, and doesn't need 14 bits, even at base ISO. See dxomark. 12 bits A9 is would easily beat 14 bits D5 for DR, as the sensor in D5 has low DR.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 18:16 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

Funny how you changed the topic when I destroyed your argument about 12 bits. Have you nothing to say about that topic now? Sony cameras with 12 bits raws are rated higher than all Canon cameras ever made, and Nikon D5 sensor in particular ranks very low in DR and doesn't need 14 bits. 12 bits A9 will beat it easily.

And we are not talking about ISO 6400. We are talking about base ISO. If it's world class sensor (and D5 doesn't have such a sensor) you might need 14 bits at ISO 200 at best. Above that, last 2 bits have just noise. Given the quality of sensor in D5, even at base ISO all DR D5 captures can be captured in 12 bits. Go look up on Dxomark.

Now what exactly were you bragging about D5 and 14 bits? And A9 dropping to 12 bits? Coma gain?

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 18:01 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

Sony cameras with 12 bits are rated higher than all Canon cameras ever made on dxomark

And Nikon D5 particularly has very low DR, so 12 bits A9 is going to beat 14 bit D5 easily, no problem. Hands down. No doubt about it.

Also, if you knew anything about the topic you would know that you need 14 bit (even that is debatable) at base ISO, as ISO goes up (far more likely for sports where a fast shutter is needed), the last 2 bits are only going to be noise, which makes 12 bits better option as file size drops with no change to DR, as DR at pixel level is already lower than 12 EV. Base ISO or at best ISO 200 (if it's superb sensor that neither D5 nor any Canon ever has) ISO 200 might be last ISO that may need 14 bits.

learn something about a topic before spewing nonsense.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 17:43 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

FOTONOTO: So it drops to 12 bit as long as using e-shutter in continuous mode, no matter how much FPS it's set, even Continuous Lo (5FPS)?

I read that "anything above 5FPS will be 12bit" in the other artical. Is this "5FPS" for Continuous Lo mode in e-shutter, or simply just for mechanical shutter continuous speed?

Sony 12 bits cameras still rank higher than all Canon cameras on dxomark. There was huge debate a few years back if you even need more than 12 bits, as there would be just noise in last two bits, but even if you do need more than 12 bits, that would only apply to base ISO or ISO 200 at best, as anything higher and you would only have noise in last 2 bits.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 15:34 UTC
On article Serious speed: Sony a9 real world samples gallery (557 comments in total)
In reply to:

RubberDials: It takes 36 SECONDS to clear a full buffer, not 3 minutes.

Max Yurev timed it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztcf_6sp-Kg 4.00 minutes in.

36 Seconds for a full buffer of 241raw at 24mp to clear completely.

No other camera in existence can even shoot 20fps FF raw at 24mp so the result is academic anyway.

12 bits is still raw. jpegs are 8 bit, so 12 is a lot more.

Link | Posted on Apr 28, 2017 at 15:15 UTC
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