Bumblebees

Realraist3d:

Well, a question that can be asked is why so many semipro monitors with 10-bit (8+2 frc), suddenly and from nowhere, gets occasional flicker when connected to a M1/M2/M3.

Googgle ”macbook external monitor flicker”. And you will get a lots of hits.

Mick232, like this, copied from lightillusion webpage:

”Colour management doesn't mean squat if your audience is on cell phones and un-calibrated home screens.”

The above is a fairly common comment regarding display calibration when performing grading or mastering.

Unfortunately it is this lack of forward thinking that causes a number of major problems with later viewing of material on any display.

If you do not care about accuracy during the image generation, the results will always be bad - on any display, regardless how well it is calibrated - or not. Two wrongs can never make a right, while a right and a wrong will always lessen the final error.

Well, is it faster really?

It depends how you measure.

Since M1/M2 and probably also M3 doesn’t use true 10-bit for graphics and instead use’s a kind of 8bit + 2 frc (meaning the last 2 bits are calculated/interpolated). The M1//M2/M3 is faster than the existing laptops with 8-bits, but not compared to thoose with true 10-bits, since the use so much more data.

@mufantino

Colornavigator works in 3D Lut

So, I will yet again try to explain with music/tones again.

Everyone that produces music understands that their music will sound different at the listners side. The listener can have 5 $ headphones, the listener can be at a club/ restaurant and the listener can have a pretty good hifi equipment back home.

So, when you produce music, you produce it in a studio, with reference monitors in an reference environment IF you want to be sure of that your material is as good as possible at listener side.

We can never take 100% height for the listeners equipment and in colors we can never be 100% sure either due to e.g color constancy (red coca cola can experience), viewing environement (sun shining through green leafs outside your window).

So saying it is no idea, pointless or whatever, is nonsens. Standards, ICC profiles, hardware calibrated monitors and controlled environment were you produce the pictures is VERY important.

Does this mean that it will have true 10-bit graphic card?
The M1/M2 hasent, thats why so many 8bit + frc monitors gets occassional flicker when connected to an M1/M2

So MK82.

Looking at this website. https://www.lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html You mean that all this is kind of BS, or not important?
It doesnt matter how much likes you get on your post, because you are talking against the whole industry.

You calibrate and work with eg. ICC profiles because the better work/the more right it is, the bigger chance it is that the viewer gets the best result.
We can never know what the user settings are, thats why there are certain standards. By not working according to theese is like believing the two wrongs makes one right.

Factory calibration doesnt actually say that much. The standards of the factory calibration is set by the particular manufacturer. I’ve seen Asus displays with documents that it is ”factory calibrated”. But the serial number didnt match so probably they do an generic calibration, not monitor by monitor.

Here is good reading:
https://www.lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

You dont really get it.
Colors is an international standard like tones in music. The tone E on a guitar in Alaska is the same as as the tone E on a guitar in Italy (if you tune it to international standards).

Moreover most of e.g. webrowsers always tries to open in the sRGB standard.
But if you have a monitor that doesnt show you the right tones, the picture data you save with the sRGB profile will get wrong.

” If you do not care about accuracy during the image generation, the results will always be bad - on any display, regardless how well it is calibrated - or not. Two wrongs can never make a right, while a right and a wrong will always lessen the final error.”

Or maybe you are not completely right in your thinking.

https://www.lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

If you are editing on a monitor which doesnt show the right colors/hues/skintones or whatever, you will edit the picture in the way you think is right and e.g. save it with sRGB profile.

But when a webbrowser opens up your file with sRGB profile, it tries to open up to that particular standard. But since you edited the pictures on eg a MB which usually has to blue skintones, it will open up the colors wrong.

So starting with a good calibrated monitor is key. Still you can not be sure how it look like at viewer side (since i depends on the monitor), but the webbrowser will open up the sRGB according to sRGB international standard.

@mk82

Clearly we dont understand each other.
I dont understand your answer and the things you read out of my words.

There is standards for colors, its a fact, it doesnt matter how long your next answer is. https://www.color.org/index.xalter

https://www.color.org/displaycalibration.xalter

Its not ”my” choosen standard, its ICC standards.

Of course different lighting changes the behaviour of the colours wave lengths bounces back to you - whats new?

When you work with a picture, it is still important that you work in a/ and saves the pictures with a profile. Otherwise the other monitor, printer etc doesnt know how to un pack it.

Imagine you beeing a music producer making music.
You dont know if your audience is tone def or the different type of headphones they use. Still you will try to produce best possible music quality coming from tuned iinstruments - dont you?

@mk82 so. many words. So you mean that an having an calibrated monitor is use ess?

The eight year old picture is an exeptional way to describe why, when you work with your pictures, need to sit and work with the pictures on an calibrated screen. Your brain will play tricks with you. There is no absolute pitch when it comes to pictures. Hence the importance to be able to trust your screen, working in an calibrated environment.

If you do that you can be sure that you are sure what you see. If you then save it with the right profile, you have done what you can. It will be unpacked as good as possible. You can never know what envrionment the pictures are viewed in. But if you shoot pictures fro a web shop the pictures will most likely be viewed through a webbrowser = srgb.

If you shoot a movie for linear tv or youtube its BT709.

If you do a print, adobe rgb and softprint or download the right icc profile to the monitor.

If he sold his boat I’d think that dpreview would floating quite many years more…

https://youtube.com/shorts/_fV25ishZqY?feature=share

@mk82 You wrote:
"But that doesn't change the fact that one doing careful job with colors and all, when the viewer will look it uncalibrated display that has gamma settings what ever, and they sit in a completely differently lit room with a different background behind the image/display!

That is one thing that people don't get, that color calibration is done in color calibrated room, that is lit with color calibrated lights and it only matter in that."

You think that you think right, but you are wrong. There is standards out there. As sRGB, DCI P3 etc. Also webbrowsers ability is to detect profiles. If you sit with an calibrated monitor in an calbrited environment you are alwas sure that what you see is right. So, you dont need to worry that your material can be totally wrong at the viewers side. If you however have an uncalibrated monitor e.g. chrusing the blacks. You will edit wrong, and when your customer look at the pic on his monitor he will get an ugly bluish picture.

This feels like a really bad, bad joke.

You have been in the forefront of making exellent reviews for so many years now.
I remeber in the beginning of the DSLR and CDSC explosion, where you were one of the very few that had the ability to cut through the manufacturers marketing "mumbo jumbo".

You could really test and benchmark the sometimes to impressive specs and find out if they had bearing or not.

I am angry on your owner letting this institution pass away. So much important data and tests. Shame on you Amazon.

@trolly

You wrote ” I find it a bit pointless to shoot my 50 MP camera ”.

What is really pointless is to shoot with your high mp camera with great colorspace and look at pictures on a monitor which have low colorspace, and not hardware calibrated.

Hertz and flicker isnt the same thing as already mentioned.

But most of the brands uses pvm (pulse) to drive their monitors.
So, if monitor brightness is high, the pulse is high, hence low flickering problem. But when you lower the light on the monitor, beacause e.g your room is darker, you can get flicker.

@theorist the BVM X310 is not an OLED. It uses the same twin layer IPS panels like the EIZO (and the old Flanders).

However, Sony did have an grade 1 OLED monitor, but they had to pull it back since it wasent good enough. No OLEDS can reach the same level as the twin layers (yet).