HowaboutRAW

Joined on Sep 1, 2011

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Total: 15914, showing: 1 – 20
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On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

bryPT: Does this camera deserve an 84 score? If this thing cannot capture a clear image of a dog moving with an f1.4 lens, is uncomfortable to hold, not balanced with the lenses that fit it and "lags behind the competition" on a few focusing items, shouldn't it get a lower score? Then, you add in the absolutely ridiculous price to an camera that has the above list of deficiencies, and it comes in with an 84 score? Looking at comparable reviews of pros and cons, I am thinking this thing should have checked in at a 78 or so. I would put the value slider pegged to the left if I am paying $7000 for the body alone and cannot get a dog photo. And then the focus and metering slider is 3 clicks from the right even though it lags in that performance category?

I normally look to honesty in my Reviews at DPReview, but this one seems a bit off.

I will never touch one, so I will give the reviewer the benefit of the doubt here, but it just seems like there is something off with this review.

Akpinxit:

When did I use the term "photo journalism"?

Also back then, it was 36 images per roll of film.

"I've seen a lot of pro-photographers , literally heavy loaded with gear (Canon Nikon and as "side arm" - Fuji with attachments for video ) and never there was highly polished slim Leica body among them ."

"highly polished"?

Then clearly, you've not seen too many pro-photographers.

"the Leica brand was just another one out of hundred other film camera manufacturers" Name 50 of these 35mm stills film camera makers back in the day?

Link | Posted on Feb 28, 2017 at 01:56 UTC
In reply to:

HowaboutRAW: What's the screen bit depth? The new MacBooks are clearly more than 8, probably not 10 though.

Also it needs to come with the option of "downgrading" to Windows 7. High end, HP laptops, with 10 bit screens, have that option. So do highend Dells, and Lenovos.

FLruckas:

"Trust me, RAW, your grandiose delusion is playing tricks on you again.....
There is nothing that you have to say.....
that would make me want to follow you around...."

And yet you do follow me around. And post delusions instilled by your failing monitor, or possibly failing colour vision.

So nothing to be "grandiose" about, your persistent actions affirm my point real well.

Link | Posted on Feb 28, 2017 at 01:25 UTC
In reply to:

HowaboutRAW: What's the screen bit depth? The new MacBooks are clearly more than 8, probably not 10 though.

Also it needs to come with the option of "downgrading" to Windows 7. High end, HP laptops, with 10 bit screens, have that option. So do highend Dells, and Lenovos.

FLruckas:

Still following me around I see. And still having trouble with your Acer's screen.

Link | Posted on Feb 28, 2017 at 00:50 UTC

What's the screen bit depth? The new MacBooks are clearly more than 8, probably not 10 though.

Also it needs to come with the option of "downgrading" to Windows 7. High end, HP laptops, with 10 bit screens, have that option. So do highend Dells, and Lenovos.

Link | Posted on Feb 28, 2017 at 00:32 UTC as 34th comment | 4 replies

Are those NEF files compressed in some manner? Normal is 42MB per file; these seem to be in the 20-22MB size range.

I checked my samples, and older DPR and IR samples, there seem to be something like 3 general sizes for raws from the D5; there's also a 30MB variation.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 23:27 UTC as 1st comment
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

keepreal: This review restores my faith in DP Review. Even less costly cameras deserve this frankness, even if their flaws sometimes are less obvious. Especially in the post truth society, saying it as it really is is very refreshing.

Few people aspire to Leica and, as far as I am concerned, with this camera they have done me a favour. I do not aspire to Leica prices, did aspire to Leica M quality in the days when we only had film. So now, I am even happier with the Nikon D610 I bought recently. There is nothing that suits me better at any price.

I do prefer optical viewfinders but if Leica have contrived to make the view through their EVF look like an OVF even in HDR lighting into the sun, then that would be real progress. However this camera is as heavy as mine without a mirror, so for most people what's the point?

s1rf4n:

Well those tools available to you would include downloading higher ISO samples from as many sources as you can. (I'll assume you can't readily try the SL, but that opportunity may come your way, take it if you get the chance. Check the firmware, shoot raw.)

Generally, the DPR studio scene is not good for making judgements about higher ISO performance. IR's scene is usually better. However you should never simply use the "comparison tools", you need to download the files.

And specific to my claims regarding the SL, DPR's studio scene was likely shot with much older firmware. When it released, the SL was NOT a very good higher ISO body. Now it is.

Leica's better lenses are optically better than Canon's best lenses.

Nowhere did I say that "great photos can't be taken with Canon equipment and lenses", please don't imply that I said/wrote that.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 22:17 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

Auni: I don't find my SL "heavy and unbalanced with native lenses" but, I may have a sturdier wrist. I also like the 11fps capability, which allows the blackout rate to be about 80ms which is about what DSLR cameras' mirrors deliver. Amazing, really. The rest of the mirrorless cameras have pathetic blackouts unless you are just shooting cats that sit still. This camera is a monster. I can't imagine how good the next version is going to be.

And, color is amazing. My M10 has amazing color. Crank the ISO and I haven't seen better high ISO color. Isn't that what we should be looking at as well as geeky, coffee sipping reviews? Leica really nailed the color.

Poor review, really. Do you guys really shoot or just hang out at Amazon Seattle and drink Starbucks coffee... don't need much of a wrist to do that.

CR:

Try the SL body with the bigger zoom if you can.

I believe that you said y'all at DPR didn't have access to that bigger zoom.

I found it very well balanced. Did not carry it around for a day or two though.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 22:10 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

Sumicron69: To be honest the Leica mystique, to which I am no stranger, made a lot more sense in days of yore when film roamed the land.

Sumicron:

"Leica digital stuff" includes new sumicron lenses, like the 8,000usd 50mm f/2.0 APO.

I suggest trying it, on an M body, or SL body --or yes the Ricoh A12 module.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 16:23 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

electrophoto: duh?
What am I missing here...?
It costs almost 8k$ and offers less than my D800 in most regards...
will be beat in size and IQ (and price) by every FF Sony has to offer...
It has less direct control as it looks than most pro DSLRs I've seen.
And it has the worst DR of the FF Options out there...
and all that for just shy of 8k$...

Clint Dunn,

The watch thing is silly. Leica lenses do things others don't while expensive watches don't do things inexpensive watches do. And as you say in many regards that $100 Casio is better than a watch costing more than ten thousand dollars.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 13:35 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

keepreal: This review restores my faith in DP Review. Even less costly cameras deserve this frankness, even if their flaws sometimes are less obvious. Especially in the post truth society, saying it as it really is is very refreshing.

Few people aspire to Leica and, as far as I am concerned, with this camera they have done me a favour. I do not aspire to Leica prices, did aspire to Leica M quality in the days when we only had film. So now, I am even happier with the Nikon D610 I bought recently. There is nothing that suits me better at any price.

I do prefer optical viewfinders but if Leica have contrived to make the view through their EVF look like an OVF even in HDR lighting into the sun, then that would be real progress. However this camera is as heavy as mine without a mirror, so for most people what's the point?

s1rf4n:

Why am I incorrect?

Have you tried the bodies that DXO scores badly? I have.

Have you dug around on the DXO website and found how it's mostly modelling not testing based? I have--though not in 12 months or so.

Proof comes from shooting raws, with good lenses, under very challenging lighting. I have that proof. I'm not posting raws to share. Proof also comes from the aforementioned fact of DXO modeling. Then there's the Leica M9 ..., this should be a big clue that DXO is to be ignored.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 13:20 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

bryPT: Does this camera deserve an 84 score? If this thing cannot capture a clear image of a dog moving with an f1.4 lens, is uncomfortable to hold, not balanced with the lenses that fit it and "lags behind the competition" on a few focusing items, shouldn't it get a lower score? Then, you add in the absolutely ridiculous price to an camera that has the above list of deficiencies, and it comes in with an 84 score? Looking at comparable reviews of pros and cons, I am thinking this thing should have checked in at a 78 or so. I would put the value slider pegged to the left if I am paying $7000 for the body alone and cannot get a dog photo. And then the focus and metering slider is 3 clicks from the right even though it lags in that performance category?

I normally look to honesty in my Reviews at DPReview, but this one seems a bit off.

I will never touch one, so I will give the reviewer the benefit of the doubt here, but it just seems like there is something off with this review.

Akpinxit:

"I can't imagine a full time working professional photographer , who wouldn't need snappy AF."

There was a world before AF.

Try using a rangefinder.

"I do imagine the amazement of one professional , who after paying 5K$ gets a AF with low performance on native lens ." I don't think most professionals simply jump in without trying gear--Leica, Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, etc.

Also having Leica gear say for some work doesn't preclude also using Canikon gear or Fuji or Olympus.

Doesn't sound like you're real familiar with pro-photographers.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 13:15 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

keepreal: This review restores my faith in DP Review. Even less costly cameras deserve this frankness, even if their flaws sometimes are less obvious. Especially in the post truth society, saying it as it really is is very refreshing.

Few people aspire to Leica and, as far as I am concerned, with this camera they have done me a favour. I do not aspire to Leica prices, did aspire to Leica M quality in the days when we only had film. So now, I am even happier with the Nikon D610 I bought recently. There is nothing that suits me better at any price.

I do prefer optical viewfinders but if Leica have contrived to make the view through their EVF look like an OVF even in HDR lighting into the sun, then that would be real progress. However this camera is as heavy as mine without a mirror, so for most people what's the point?

tbcass:

The fact is that DXO sensor scores are almost useless. People who pay attention to gear, as in try it, understand this.

Those who can only read scores pretend the DXO rating is something important.

The DXO lens scores are helpful.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 13:10 UTC
On article GIMP seeks funding for future advanced features (222 comments in total)
In reply to:

dprived prev: GIMP and a few other similarly free image editing software are all great and everything, but the dominance of Photoshop and Lightroom in the market is undeniable and the sheeple will always continue using those over anything else EVEN IF the alternatives would someday prove to be not only free or cheaper, but better too!

dprived prev:

Haven't really used MSWord since Word2000--which I managed to "run" on my WinXP laptop for years.

When I know the document is to be possibly read/edited in Word I save it in the .doc format (Word 1997-2003), not the .docx format used by later versions of MSWord by default.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 13:08 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

HenryDJP: I never understood what TRUE benefits a photographer would get choosing a Leica cam. While I'm not necessarily an A7RII fan, I beg to differ that the Leika's price being far more than twice (nearly 3 times) the cost of the A7RII is actually more than twice to three times more camera than the A7RII.....or any other professional DSLR for that matter.

And before the usual Leika fans come charging at me with their "reasons, points and facts" about Leika's worth, I'm just making a stance on the fact that Sony, Canon and Nikon professional cameras are more camera than most people need and should satisfy the most demanding photographers in the most demanding shooting environments.
For nearly $7500 that money could be better spent on a Medium Format Hasselblad or two the best DSLR's.

brendon1000:

" Arguing with HowaboutRAW is like arguing with a child."

You can use that excuse here, because your claims about "armchair photographer" directed at me be elsewhere.

"The sheer number of posts he makes trying his level best to defend Leica without actually giving any shred of evidence to back up his outlandish claims doesn't mean anything to him."

The evidence is the argument; DPR has provided some of the raws data. I don't especially defend Leica cameras--though I like the higher ISO improvement in the SL with later firmware. I defend the use of optically better lenses, those lenses are hardly limited to Leica. And I've mentioned plenty of other lens names.

"He will continue to post nonsense and pretend it is fact due to his claims to actually shoot with 7 FF cameras yet he doesn't wish to share any of his top secret RAW files. :P" How is it nonsense? You've provide zero raws that counter my point.

"he admits that he has no facts to back up his lies", how?

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 12:53 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

Auni: I don't find my SL "heavy and unbalanced with native lenses" but, I may have a sturdier wrist. I also like the 11fps capability, which allows the blackout rate to be about 80ms which is about what DSLR cameras' mirrors deliver. Amazing, really. The rest of the mirrorless cameras have pathetic blackouts unless you are just shooting cats that sit still. This camera is a monster. I can't imagine how good the next version is going to be.

And, color is amazing. My M10 has amazing color. Crank the ISO and I haven't seen better high ISO color. Isn't that what we should be looking at as well as geeky, coffee sipping reviews? Leica really nailed the color.

Poor review, really. Do you guys really shoot or just hang out at Amazon Seattle and drink Starbucks coffee... don't need much of a wrist to do that.

Auni,

Thank you, just wanted to be clear you weren't talking about jpgs.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 12:43 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

Auni: I don't find my SL "heavy and unbalanced with native lenses" but, I may have a sturdier wrist. I also like the 11fps capability, which allows the blackout rate to be about 80ms which is about what DSLR cameras' mirrors deliver. Amazing, really. The rest of the mirrorless cameras have pathetic blackouts unless you are just shooting cats that sit still. This camera is a monster. I can't imagine how good the next version is going to be.

And, color is amazing. My M10 has amazing color. Crank the ISO and I haven't seen better high ISO color. Isn't that what we should be looking at as well as geeky, coffee sipping reviews? Leica really nailed the color.

Poor review, really. Do you guys really shoot or just hang out at Amazon Seattle and drink Starbucks coffee... don't need much of a wrist to do that.

Auni:

With the M10, or SL:

Are you shooting raw? Or jpg?

And is the colour you refer to a jpg thing or the colour you can get out of raws you shoot?

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 02:52 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

HenryDJP: I never understood what TRUE benefits a photographer would get choosing a Leica cam. While I'm not necessarily an A7RII fan, I beg to differ that the Leika's price being far more than twice (nearly 3 times) the cost of the A7RII is actually more than twice to three times more camera than the A7RII.....or any other professional DSLR for that matter.

And before the usual Leika fans come charging at me with their "reasons, points and facts" about Leika's worth, I'm just making a stance on the fact that Sony, Canon and Nikon professional cameras are more camera than most people need and should satisfy the most demanding photographers in the most demanding shooting environments.
For nearly $7500 that money could be better spent on a Medium Format Hasselblad or two the best DSLR's.

HenryDJP:

And how have I "defended" Leica in every respect?

I don't know which country your from but there's a whole bad history to spelling America (as in USA) with a K in place of the C.

"Learn to be respectful of people rather than go on the attack." Again, you're not one to talk, and I avoided commenting on the odd spelling until...

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 02:49 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

HenryDJP: I never understood what TRUE benefits a photographer would get choosing a Leica cam. While I'm not necessarily an A7RII fan, I beg to differ that the Leika's price being far more than twice (nearly 3 times) the cost of the A7RII is actually more than twice to three times more camera than the A7RII.....or any other professional DSLR for that matter.

And before the usual Leika fans come charging at me with their "reasons, points and facts" about Leika's worth, I'm just making a stance on the fact that Sony, Canon and Nikon professional cameras are more camera than most people need and should satisfy the most demanding photographers in the most demanding shooting environments.
For nearly $7500 that money could be better spent on a Medium Format Hasselblad or two the best DSLR's.

Henry:

Leica is spelt correctly all over this web page, it's very odd that you "chose" to spell it that way, it's not like say dropping an S from Zeiss, or reversing the E and the I in Zeiss again, or say putting two Ns in Canon or two Ks in Nikon.

"The following misspellings were definitely an oversight, but I honestly don't need to explain myself to a person like you." Well preceding.

"explain yourself", no you don't have to, and it's not like I've never made odd mistakes that involved spelling or a garbled meaning, but the K is very odd for the reasons I enumerated above.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 02:30 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

HenryDJP: I never understood what TRUE benefits a photographer would get choosing a Leica cam. While I'm not necessarily an A7RII fan, I beg to differ that the Leika's price being far more than twice (nearly 3 times) the cost of the A7RII is actually more than twice to three times more camera than the A7RII.....or any other professional DSLR for that matter.

And before the usual Leika fans come charging at me with their "reasons, points and facts" about Leika's worth, I'm just making a stance on the fact that Sony, Canon and Nikon professional cameras are more camera than most people need and should satisfy the most demanding photographers in the most demanding shooting environments.
For nearly $7500 that money could be better spent on a Medium Format Hasselblad or two the best DSLR's.

brendon1000:

You may want to reread your posts before pretending that you didn't personally attack me.

You don't have any valid attack on my logic or reasoning, you have a valid point that I won't share raws, but you seem to be a bit confused on the meaning of that term too. ("share" means I won't post to the interweb for you to download).

"Your raw files (to me!) are exactly like pink fluffy unicorns! " Right "to you".

This makes no sense, assuming "them" refers to raws, you've misused "seen", think you mean something else:

"You claim voraciously to have seen them in almost every other post (the raw files not the pink fluffy unicorns) but no one else can actually see them! :p"

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 02:26 UTC
On article Leica SL Review (869 comments in total)
In reply to:

brendon1000: No you claim to have access to all those cameras. I don't believe you do. I feel you are a big liar. You only tell lies and don't give any proof.

brendon1000:

Technically, it's raws I won't share online. There's a difference.

"Sounds like a case of the wmds that Iraq has that caused the Iraq invasion :D" You can make that excuse for your incapacity to check/find your own raws. But mine exist.

Also you don't seem familiar with how BushCheney sold the Iraq invasion, it was lies about WMDs, not the non-existent WMDs, that were used to sell the illegal war.

Unfortunately for your "logic", my raw files exist, and, far more importantly, you can get your own raw files with not too much work. Don't even really have to touch the bodies.

Link | Posted on Feb 27, 2017 at 02:19 UTC
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