HowaboutRAW

Joined on Sep 1, 2011

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On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

maljo@inreach.com: Well, we do want them to stay in business. This is good news.

Was Adobe in danger of failing say 3 years ago?

Link | Posted on Jun 25, 2017 at 00:13 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

migus: LR being the de-facto standard, every now and then after a new release I give it a trial.

And each time it hits me as a sluggish app, ponderously taking its time for every step - while gulping tons of DRAM, CPU and disk space.

Adobe and AutoDesk, to name just two related s/w behemoths, enjoy a de-facto monopolistic status inherited from decades ago - the kinda "moated castle" Warren Buffet loves to invest in ... Both play cat&mouse games w/ their file formats to prevent competition. None is particularly innovative or nimble re. their core products and features.

Captive markets and taking your loyal customers as hostages does work handsomely sometimes - until the competition catches up.

Well, LR is still available as a perpetual license, whether or not you like the software. It's not especially strong editing software. PhotoShop is.

AutoDesk faces serious competition from Solidworks, and the fact that there are now people who have been using CAD for 25 years regularly and understand AutoCAD is basically a piece of garbage. (Not every AutoDesk application is a piece of garbage--but the others aren't as ubiquitous as AutoCAD.)

Buffett massively benefited from deregulation in the 1980s, back then he was simply very well to do. Much of what he pursued since, would have been illegal (or against long standing regulations) prior to the mid-1980s. In the early 1980s, an economist at MIT put forward the idea that bigger was better, hence Walmart, massive mergers, later Microsoft and Amazon, and Adobe and AutoDesk, Buffett ran with it.

Also NAFTA helped him immensely. So did banking deregulation in the 1990s.

Link | Posted on Jun 25, 2017 at 00:03 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

retr01976: Honestly I was against the subscription model in the beginning, but I have come to terms with it and now everyone is basically doing the same thing and in some respects it makes perfect sense. $10 a month for things like Adobe, Netflix, and Apple Music - Not a bad deal to be honest. I mean I probably blow more money on less important things (like those $15 old fashioned's I drank in palm beach recently).

PhotoU:

Thank you.

Link | Posted on Jun 24, 2017 at 01:53 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

retr01976: Honestly I was against the subscription model in the beginning, but I have come to terms with it and now everyone is basically doing the same thing and in some respects it makes perfect sense. $10 a month for things like Adobe, Netflix, and Apple Music - Not a bad deal to be honest. I mean I probably blow more money on less important things (like those $15 old fashioned's I drank in palm beach recently).

PhotoU,

But you can't just rent it for the week or month. You sign a lease/contract.

It's not an at will rental, on for say 3 months, off for 6, then back on for 6, off for 1, etc.

Link | Posted on Jun 23, 2017 at 21:33 UTC
In reply to:

ovatab: vodka drop renders dark shadows better

And bourbon for sepia look?

Link | Posted on Jun 23, 2017 at 14:37 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

retr01976: Honestly I was against the subscription model in the beginning, but I have come to terms with it and now everyone is basically doing the same thing and in some respects it makes perfect sense. $10 a month for things like Adobe, Netflix, and Apple Music - Not a bad deal to be honest. I mean I probably blow more money on less important things (like those $15 old fashioned's I drank in palm beach recently).

PhotoU:

Right, but what I wrote was that you wouldn't be able to process you photos in CC, if you stop paying rent. I didn't say your photos will be erased, nor did I imply any such thing.

Note my point about the difference between data access, which would be iCloud Music, Netfilx (even the DVDs by mail), Hulu, and CBS online, and data manipulation which would be Photoshop.

Now true, Photoshop, is a subset of data manipulation, since unlike say MS Word or Illustrator, the data creation almost always comes from somewhere else--that's from your digital images--while with Word , Illustrator, or CAD, one often creates files from nothing. But this last point is immaterial to rental only being a silly model.

I'd posit that given a choice between renting all of CC for say $25 a month, with a contract to rent for at least 12 months, and purchasing just PhotoShop CS upgrades for say $300 every 2 years, most people would stick with the rental option. But Adobe doesn't give you that choice.

Link | Posted on Jun 23, 2017 at 12:15 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

falconeyes: This is bad news.
It will push even more software companies to adopt a "rental only" model, disguised as cloud.

In the end, it will all collapse when people start to refuse to run hundreds of software subscriptions.

TD:

"Of course I brought up drugs, because it's a truth,"--you know this how?

"personal access to TV" is very different than having a cable TV subscription.

"There isn't a reasonable study on the planet that would assert that poor people in the U.S. don't *generally* have cable television. "

Well you've not cited any studies and you've not defined "poor"--also having access is different than actually having the account in your name and paying the monthly bill. Cable TV didn't get cheaper with digital.

Cable TV prices soared over the last 20 years. You mean something else.

"The bottom line is that if someone makes a tool, service or software, then be ready to pay for it. If you can't afford it, or think the price is too high, I recommend at least trying to make a better product or provide a better service as opposed to sitting around belly aching."

And that whole paragraph has nothing to do with rental software versus purchase of a perpetual license. Quel shock--sarc.

Link | Posted on Jun 23, 2017 at 02:33 UTC
On article Caltech research team develops lensless camera (37 comments in total)

That's a big deal. It's peeking into actually secret military hardware. Not a great surprise that it comes out of CalTech.

Link | Posted on Jun 23, 2017 at 00:28 UTC as 13th comment
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

Stanchung: What Adobe should have done is asked $5 for the RAW update. There's many, and nobody wants pay for RAW versions they don't own a camera to.

This price gouging subscription model is too much.

Sticking to pre CC.

Okay, but that $5 for raw converter updates would break the subscription mold, and also allow people to hold onto older software, say CS6, as long as it took those updates.

Also it is nice to be able to try raws from new cameras, even if I never intend to purchase them. Right, with the newest cameras, not supported by CS6, there's still the Adobe DNG Converter option.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 23:25 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

falconeyes: This is bad news.
It will push even more software companies to adopt a "rental only" model, disguised as cloud.

In the end, it will all collapse when people start to refuse to run hundreds of software subscriptions.

TD:

You brought up drugs, not me.

Your insults don't help, and don't reflect well on your perspicacity. Nor do those tests measure much except the ability to take tests.

No, many in the USA under the fake "poverty threshold" forgo cable TV--they frequently drive cars that need constant repair--just an example other priorities. They have houses to heat, and in many rural areas cable doesn't exist, it's satellite only, which also costs bucks.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 23:10 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

CreeDo: Still waiting for all the disasters people say come with the CC subscription model.

• In the long run it'll cost you more!
Well, if I bought CC from the day it was released in 2013 til now, I'd still have paid less than half the cost of Photoshop CS6.

• They'll jack up the prices once they lock you in!
Hasn't happened.

• You'll be locked out of your files if you fail to keep paying!
Hasn't happened.

• All your stuff will be uploaded to the cloud against your will and they'll own the rights to all of it!
... No. Never was going to happen.

• You won't be able to use it if you're not online!
Who isn't online anymore?

• They'll stop bothering to update because there's no incentive!
I use stuff like photomerge, ACR filter, smart sharpen, HDR merge every day.

Would I prefer a choice to own for a flat fee instead of rent? Sure, choices are good. But I'd probably STILL go with rent because the sting of $1000 (even if it's just one time) is significant while $10/mo. is painless.

CreeDo:

I purchased PhotoShop CS5 for less than 300usd. (It was a deal I acknowledge.)

Then I upgraded to PS CS6 for 200usd.

So, no your math only really covers those who did not purchase CS 6 as an upgrade, and received no other discounts.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 22:50 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

falconeyes: This is bad news.
It will push even more software companies to adopt a "rental only" model, disguised as cloud.

In the end, it will all collapse when people start to refuse to run hundreds of software subscriptions.

TD:

Many poor people with an apartment forgo cable oh and drugs.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 21:02 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

Matsu: Adobe built a platform that became the de-facto industry standard, so when they moved it to a subscription model, many users had little choice but to follow.

Essentially, they've run a legal ransom-ware racket, so of course it's profitable: Pay up or get locked out of the industry platform. I'm not sure whether a subscription model can spring new from the ground up and expect similar success without a previously installed base to coerce into monthly payments. "Buying" all your apps this way will quickly get very expensive.

I'm sticking with CS6, for now it's still in my SW/HW upgrade cycle, typically 4-6yrs between updates. I routinely submit to print/design shops with far older software still in daily use.

However, Adobe should assume nothing about my future business. Alternatives will be weighed heavily against Adobe's price structure & features when the time comes.

TD:

That "logic" only works if you don't upset the base customer. Or nothing replaces your product.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 20:03 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

falconeyes: This is bad news.
It will push even more software companies to adopt a "rental only" model, disguised as cloud.

In the end, it will all collapse when people start to refuse to run hundreds of software subscriptions.

TD:

"surely you realize that a significant number of people across the U.S. that can't pay their rent, but obtain money for drugs, cigarettes and cable. People will pay for what they really want."

And surely you realize if you don't have a home you don't have cable TV.

"drugs"--of course you went there.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 20:01 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

Wiggle Foot: Here's a Modest Proposal to solve the problem of renting from Adobe. It's going to cost you something up front, but in the long run, it should pay from itself.

Buy $1,000 of Adobe. Not the product, the stock. After a year, fund your one year Creative Cloud Photography subscription with the money the stock made.

For example, suppose you bought 20 shares of Adobe 4 years ago:
ADBE Price 1 Year
June Gain (Loss)
2013 $44.77 (895.40)
2014 $72.61 556.80
2015 $79.70 141.80
2016 $92.20 250.00
2017 $144.24 1,040.80

Every year, 20 shares of Adobe generated more than enough money to pay for a $120 CC Photography subscription. The gains in 2017 alone would fund a CC subscription for 5 years.

Std. disclaimer: past performance is no guarantee of future success. I am not affiliated with Adobe, DP Review, the financial industry, or anybody else. I am, however, looking forward to hearing the erudite replies from the forum.

WF:

You'd still have to sell the stock, which jeopardizes future your capacity to benefit from future stock price increases.

You'd be on firmer ground if Adobe pays dividends.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 19:59 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

LDunn1: A monthly subscription doesn't suit me, I dislike the direction Adobe has gone.

However, as a business, it is their prerogative to manage their business as they see fit, in the same way that it is my prerogrative to no longer by their products.

Having just bought an expensive CS suite a little before they made the announcement to a subscription model, I do resent Adobe.

I'll continue to use what I have while it still works, but I have already started switching to alternative products, & the good news is, that there are some great options out there.

My AE alternative is Black Magic Fusion 8, which is absolutely amazing & I actually much prefer it to AE already.

There are multiple alternatives to Premiere too. I switched from a v.early Premiere to Sony Vegas & back to Premiere in the past, not that there was anything wrong with Vegas mind. So in the future, I might switch back to Vegas, or Black Magic Davinci Resolve.

Photoshop is tougher, but when the time comes.....

LDunn1:

Some German company, with offices in California.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 19:57 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

retr01976: Honestly I was against the subscription model in the beginning, but I have come to terms with it and now everyone is basically doing the same thing and in some respects it makes perfect sense. $10 a month for things like Adobe, Netflix, and Apple Music - Not a bad deal to be honest. I mean I probably blow more money on less important things (like those $15 old fashioned's I drank in palm beach recently).

NetMage:

PhotoShop CS/CC does things other software just doesn't, example: Selective Color.

Of course there's other raw processing software, DXO 11, PhotoNinja, Iridient (Mac only) and Capture One--all excellent programs.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 14:30 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

retr01976: Honestly I was against the subscription model in the beginning, but I have come to terms with it and now everyone is basically doing the same thing and in some respects it makes perfect sense. $10 a month for things like Adobe, Netflix, and Apple Music - Not a bad deal to be honest. I mean I probably blow more money on less important things (like those $15 old fashioned's I drank in palm beach recently).

PhotoU:

And 50 dollars a month is 600 dollars a year.

With the exception Adobe CC all of those things you list are about data access with your computer, while Adobe CC is used for data manipulation on your computer.

If you don't pay for Hulu, you lose access to Hulu, but you can still watch movies and TV shows in a variety of forms, some online, some over the air, some via cable, some via the internet. While if you CC shuts down you can no longer process your own photos, videos, etc with CC.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 13:40 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

LDunn1: A monthly subscription doesn't suit me, I dislike the direction Adobe has gone.

However, as a business, it is their prerogative to manage their business as they see fit, in the same way that it is my prerogrative to no longer by their products.

Having just bought an expensive CS suite a little before they made the announcement to a subscription model, I do resent Adobe.

I'll continue to use what I have while it still works, but I have already started switching to alternative products, & the good news is, that there are some great options out there.

My AE alternative is Black Magic Fusion 8, which is absolutely amazing & I actually much prefer it to AE already.

There are multiple alternatives to Premiere too. I switched from a v.early Premiere to Sony Vegas & back to Premiere in the past, not that there was anything wrong with Vegas mind. So in the future, I might switch back to Vegas, or Black Magic Davinci Resolve.

Photoshop is tougher, but when the time comes.....

Just a warning, Sony sold Sony Vegas.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 13:28 UTC
On article Adobe achieves record revenue (168 comments in total)
In reply to:

Paul B Jones: Good for Adobe. They provide me useful products at a reasonable price. For naturally grumpy people, Adobe also provides something to complain about - so everyone should be happy.

dd:

">>You can claim to know Knoll, I can't disprove that or prove that."

"I can prove it; here's Thomas and Mark Hamburg, at the Photoshop "Soup to Nuts" event I moderated at Photoshop World 2007 where I was an instructor as well:"

So? I said I can't prove whether you know Knoll. You don't appear to have read my comment, the one you quoted.

As for a picture of you and Knoll from 10 years ago that really doesn't prove much.

Facts still escape you regards the difference between "once activated the software runs as long as the hardware works", and "once activated the software has to be verified by phoning home every X interval". The former is how CS6 works and the latter is how CC works.

This is especially true now that there are on more updates for CS6. Back when updates occured, one did have to do a second version of "phoning home" to get those updates--not indicated if Adobe did any license checking.

But now, Adobe can't shut down CS6 on my computer.

Link | Posted on Jun 22, 2017 at 12:00 UTC
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