Will You Get Sigma's 20 MP/layer Full-Frame Camera?

[dlj]

danski0224 wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the sdQH has a crop mode.
I would be surprised if Sigma does not include a crop mode in the upcoming "full frame" camera, but if it is not included, you can crop your own images
No need to wait for a crop mode

should have crop mode because sigma plan to sell three apsc lens L mount, beginning of next year.

Light at the end of the tunnel! Thank you mengaza and danski0224, for raising my (and kindred) spirits with some great perspectives.

 

[Sjak]

should have crop mode because sigma plan to sell three apsc lens L mount, beginning of next year.

Maybe those are aimed at the existing L-mount camera's? (T, TL, TL2, CL)

However, considering that Sigma also will make an adapter SA-L, and SA-lenses are often for APSC, it seems plausible that the new 20MP-cam will indeed have a crop-mode.

 

[veebegin]

if have crop mode 1.5x on ff foveon 20mp it will have 9mp.

 

[Scottelly]

If size, weight and price are reasonable, I would love to own this camera. It would be an ideal day-time platform for my collection of vintage lenses.

Price is bound to drop at some point, so that can be overcome if launch price is not to my liking.

If size and/or weight is like the Panasonic, then I'll probably pass. Yes, I can carry a 1kg cam all day, but I simply do not want to ;-)

I don't see any reason why it would be any bigger than the SD Quattro. In fact, it might be smaller. The processors are no doubt twice as fast as they were when the SD Quattro was made, and it only needs to process twice as many pixels. (The SD Quattro is a "29 MP" camera, and the new camera will be a 60 MP camera.) They're actually likely to use a processor (processing system) twice as powerful as what's in the SD Quattro H, which is a 45 MP camera, to handle only 1/3 more pixels. It will make the camera significantly faster, I'm sure. The full-frame camera could be slightly smaller than the SD Quattro (and SD Quattro H), considering it won't have the "snout" where the SA mount is located. I can see Sigma making some smaller lenses for L mount too. They don't have to keep making f1.4 lenses. At just 515 grams the 70mm f2.8 Art Macro is already much smaller than the 50mm f1.4 Art, which weighs 815 grams (more than 50% heavier). I'm hoping to see a 50mm f1.8 Art in L mount, for $500. That would save you some weight . . . and money.

 

[Scottelly]

should have crop mode because sigma plan to sell three apsc lens L mount, beginning of next year.

Maybe those are aimed at the existing L-mount camera's? (T, TL, TL2, CL)

However, considering that Sigma also will make an adapter SA-L, and SA-lenses are often for APSC, it seems plausible that the new 20MP-cam will indeed have a crop-mode.

I agree, but it may have many "crop modes." What I mean is the camera could have special abilities to take advantage of the APS-C size image circle of those lenses, making a crop mode in 4:3 aspect ration, for example, that could be bigger than it would be in the SD Quattro. The same would go for square crop mode. The square crop mode might even offer 12 MP photos! Imagine THAT.

I imagine a camera with a 3:1 panorama mode that uses almost the whole width of the full-frame sensor, a 16:9 crop mode, 3:2, 7:5, 5:4, and square crop modes, all offering plenty of MP, because their corners would be right at the edge of the image circle of the APS-C lenses.

 

[Sjak]

Yes, I have something similar on my LX7, with a dial for the aspect ratio, which is also the aspect ratio of the RAW-file. Very convenient feature

 

[Johan Borg]

should have crop mode because sigma plan to sell three apsc lens L mount, beginning of next year.

Maybe those are aimed at the existing L-mount camera's? (T, TL, TL2, CL)

However, considering that Sigma also will make an adapter SA-L, and SA-lenses are often for APSC, it seems plausible that the new 20MP-cam will indeed have a crop-mode.

A crop mode is necessary to be compliant with the L Mount specification, as far as I understand. Leica does this today with the full frame SL camera.

Due to its diameter of 51.6 millimetres, the L-Mount is suitable for cameras with a full-frame sensor as well as cameras with an APS-C sensor. Equally, L-Mount lenses are compatible with both types of camera, which significantly expands their scope of applications.

From https://l-mount.com/en/Overview

 

[xpatUSA]

I find myself often using the SD1M in Medium resolution mode and also often BW, because it still delivers me that Foveon goodness. Although display resolutions have increased in the last decade (ubiquity of HD, and increasingly 4HD), the slightly higher resolution of the SD1M in Medium resolution is usually 'good enough' for HD display or small to medium prints. It appears to me that there is some binning occurring when I use Medium resolution, which is enough to eliminate any 'crunchiness', to the point where I get all the benefits of the SD14, plus better BW (and a more reliable body). It seems to be all I need for now.

Just so that you know, the Medium Resolution Mode does involve some interpolation because Foveon binning can't do fractional amounts. So the raw data for a med. res. is not in 3:2 aspect ratio. It is much wider than tall **. This can be seen in RawDigger.

Then the conversion re-samples it to 3:2, meaning that interpolation is used and that is likely when the 'crunchiness' goes.

** [edit] from memory, the VPS bins it to half-height, i.e. the raw image is 4704x1568px. Then the firmware, or SPP, re-samples the raw to 3264x2176px for viewing or editing. As you should know, re-sampling is normally done in two separate directions, horizontally and vertically (e.g. bi-linear), so there's nothing unusual going on here ...

--
Ted

 

[jande9]

If I am not mistaken, the sdQH has a crop mode.

I would be surprised if Sigma does not include a crop mode in the upcoming "full frame" camera, but if it is not included, you can crop your own images

No need to wait for a crop mode

Maybe they will design a "reverse Metabones" type adapter that will optically expand the image from a lens designed for aps-c so that it will fill a full frame. Who knows? Sigma likes coming up with surprises.

Jan

 

[jande9]

You CAN'T compare the red channels only. That seems absurd to me.Where is the red in a photo of a blue car in front of a green hedge ... ?

Just in case you didn't get the graph:

Here's all the red in that photo:

GIMP>decompose to R,G,B>export red layer

Hmmm ... quite a lot of red there, right?

This is obviously fake, because this is a truck, not a car....

And not much of a hedge either...

Jan

 

[xpatUSA]

You CAN'T compare the red channels only. That seems absurd to me.Where is the red in a photo of a blue car in front of a green hedge ... ?

Just in case you didn't get the graph:

Here's all the red in that photo:

GIMP>decompose to R,G,B>export red layer

Hmmm ... quite a lot of red there, right?

This is obviously fake, because this is a truck, not a car....

And not much of a hedge either...

Jan

You thought they were trees?!!

That's a TEXAS hedge, by golly ...

--
Ted

 

[Scottelly]

You CAN'T compare the red channels only. That seems absurd to me.Where is the red in a photo of a blue car in front of a green hedge ... ?

Just in case you didn't get the graph:

Here's all the red in that photo:

GIMP>decompose to R,G,B>export red layer

Hmmm ... quite a lot of red there, right?

This is obviously fake, because this is a truck, not a car....

And not much of a hedge either...

Jan

You thought they were trees?!!

That's a TEXAS hedge, by golly ...

Yeah, everything's bigger in Texas! Y'ever heard of a Texas Leica?!?



--
Scott Barton Kennelly
http://www.bigprintphotos.com

 

[Scottelly]

If I am not mistaken, the sdQH has a crop mode.

I would be surprised if Sigma does not include a crop mode in the upcoming "full frame" camera, but if it is not included, you can crop your own images

No need to wait for a crop mode

Maybe they will design a "reverse Metabones" type adapter that will optically expand the image from a lens designed for aps-c so that it will fill a full frame. Who knows? Sigma likes coming up with surprises.

Jan

Interesting idea. Would that make the 50-100mm f1.8 Art into a 75-150mm f2.8 Art?

 

[Joris1632]

Today I was out and about photographing late afternoon spring sunshine when I met a chap with a weighty apparatus strapped to his chest. An enthusiastic enthusiast with the newest Olympus OM-D E-M1X and Giant Zoom. He lowered my core body temperature by several degrees (I'm sitting on a mobility scooter in wind chill conditions ) while he expounding the merits of his new baby. For him it was a dream come true, cost €10,000 or so with lenses - BWTH ! - perfection.

I'm trying to say we all have different views and needs. I neither need nor want the specs that made the Olympus so desirable to my new acquaintance and for him my sdQ was probably unbelievably primitive.

Let's wait and see ........

 

[Scottelly]

Today I was out and about photographing late afternoon spring sunshine when I met a chap with a weighty apparatus strapped to his chest. An enthusiastic enthusiast with the newest Olympus OM-D E-M1X and Giant Zoom. He lowered my core body temperature by several degrees (I'm sitting on a mobility scooter in wind chill conditions ) while he expounding the merits of his new baby. For him it was a dream come true, cost €10,000 or so with lenses - BWTH ! - perfection.

I'm trying to say we all have different views and needs. I neither need nor want the specs that made the Olympus so desirable to my new acquaintance and for him my sdQ was probably unbelievably primitive.

Let's wait and see ........

Yeah, that E-M1X is the Olympus answer to the Nikon D5 or Canon 1Dx Mk II.

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

For sports shooters it seems like it would make a lot of sense. For wildlife shooters who hike a long way to get the shots they want, I'd think it'd be pretty close to perfect (nice and light, yet lots of reach, and speed like you wouldn't beleive - 60 fps shooting speed). I doubt it'd be a landscape photographer's dream camera, but for someone who only prints up to 30" x 40" I'm sure it would probably work just fine. I'm pretty sure most photographers never exceed 24" x 36" when printing their best photos, and 20 MP should be fine for that. Hell, I'm going to be printing my 36 MP photos from my Nikon D810 at 40" x 60" (unless I sell it to get a Sony A7r II or something like that). I would definitely prefer the 42 MP over the 36 MP, though there is probably not much difference (6 MP isn't much - less than 20%).

You're definitely right though George. To each his own (perspective).

 

[dlj]

(Responding from a jostly train)

Thanks to all for the wealth of info - forgot what a great community this usually is.

Ted, I do recall now too that the SD1M had some funky binning patterns - thanks so much for raising that point. I will investigate those to see which it uses for Medium resolution. I was almost publicly cursing out loud when you used the "i" word, but maybe that's what softens things, even though I can still follow aliased details when pixel peeping.

To your point, I'm trying Affinity photo, and it brings BW Medium res images in as full normal colour images (!) and it uprezzes the med res to full res images upon raw import. Weird binning might be the cause, confusing the Libraw engine.

Apologies for derailing this thread (sorry!). Back to topic: even 9 MP would be double an SD14/15, with similarly big juicy sensor sites. So maybe the cost of camera and lens conversion is my only hurdle.

 

[Scottelly]

(Responding from a jostly train)

Thanks to all for the wealth of info - forgot what a great community this usually is.

Ted, I do recall now too that the SD1M had some funky binning patterns - thanks so much for raising that point. I will investigate those to see which it uses for Medium resolution. I was almost publicly cursing out loud when you used the "i" word, but maybe that's what softens things, even though I can still follow aliased details when pixel peeping.

To your point, I'm trying Affinity photo, and it brings BW Medium res images in as full normal colour images (!) and it uprezzes the med res to full res images upon raw import. Weird binning might be the cause, confusing the Libraw engine.

Apologies for derailing this thread (sorry!). Back to topic: even 9 MP would be double an SD14/15, with similarly big juicy sensor sites. So maybe the cost of camera and lens conversion is my only hurdle.

Camera and lens conversion? What do you mean by camera conversion? As far as lens conversion goes, why not just get the adapter they're planning to sell for $89?

I wouldn't convert a lens, because then you couldn't use it on a Sony camera in the future (in the event that Sony makes some amazing camera that you'd want to buy).

--
Scott Barton Kennelly
http://www.bigprintphotos.com

 

[dlj]

dlj wrote:
(Responding from a jostly train)
Apologies for derailing this thread (sorry!). Back to topic: even 9 MP would be double an SD14/15, with similarly big juicy sensor sites. So maybe the cost of camera and lens conversion is my only hurdle.

Camera and lens conversion? What do you mean by camera conversion? As far as lens conversion goes, why not just get the adapter they're planning to sell for $89?

I wouldn't convert a lens, because then you couldn't use it on a Sony camera in the future (in the event that Sony makes some amazing camera that you'd want to buy).

My bad. I meant cost of camera, plus cost of lenses conversion. Somehow I missed that I could also buy a single adapter (it will be a bit more costly here, but still nowhere near a lens cost). Totally news to me. Have my homework cut out for me! But thanks, that's good homework!

 

[TN Args]

Every camera purchase decision I ever make includes price as a consideration. We don't have that.

Your question is too early.

Every camera purchase decision I ever make includes features as a consideration. We don't have that.

Your question is too early.

Every camera purchase decision I ever make includes performance as a consideration. We don't have that.

Your question is too early.

Are you detecting a pattern?

 

[saltydogstudios]

If size, weight and price are reasonable, I would love to own this camera. It would be an ideal day-time platform for my collection of vintage lenses.

Price is bound to drop at some point, so that can be overcome if launch price is not to my liking.

If size and/or weight is like the Panasonic, then I'll probably pass. Yes, I can carry a 1kg cam all day, but I simply do not want to ;-)

I don't see any reason why it would be any bigger than the SD Quattro.

Have you seen the size of the lenses that are out for the L-Mount? They're huge. I think going larger may just make ergonomic sense, not to mention you'll need a robust grip to hold those giant lenses up.

But Sigma makes weird ergonomic choices so who knows.

In fact, it might be smaller. The processors are no doubt twice as fast as they were when the SD Quattro was made, and it only needs to process twice as many pixels. (The SD Quattro is a "29 MP" camera, and the new camera will be a 60 MP camera.) They're actually likely to use a processor (processing system) twice as powerful as what's in the SD Quattro H, which is a 45 MP camera, to handle only 1/3 more pixels. It will make the camera significantly faster, I'm sure. The full-frame camera could be slightly smaller than the SD Quattro (and SD Quattro H), considering it won't have the "snout" where the SA mount is located. I can see Sigma making some smaller lenses for L mount too. They don't have to keep making f1.4 lenses. At just 515 grams the 70mm f2.8 Art Macro is already much smaller than the 50mm f1.4 Art, which weighs 815 grams (more than 50% heavier). I'm hoping to see a 50mm f1.8 Art in L mount, for $500. That would save you some weight . . . and money.