Why No IS On My Prime

Thank you.. Unfortunately they say the sweet spot for this lens, the amazing sharpness comes between 4-5.6. It's sad but yeah I'll try 2.8 at 1/125th, but that sounds like it could bring my iso to 1600 or past, and that's just where the t1i would fail me..
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Erik Stouffer
 
Thanks yeah I'll do that and that is my one technique, I've been doing it for a while. I think I could get a hand held at 1/4s even with 55mm and 5.6 I'll test it for you as soon as I can. I do know about the focal length multiplication, but it's only now that I actually need to worry about it. I think at 2.8 with 1/100th I would have to climb up to 1600 or higher and my t1i can't do that with respect to a reasonable picture quality and lack of noise. I will be getting a 7d possible or the pentax and their old primes. I don't need AF at all, although now that I have good low light AF it's amazing.
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Erik Stouffer
 
Nice, I'm thinking about Pentax and their old sharp primes, but I really don't like that they don't have a FF. I'm aware it's probably coming soon. I deffinitely don't mind paying more for the IS.. Alas it's not available. And they shouldn't only have it on L, it's more of an amatuer feature. Mid-grade glass would be fine, and of course put it on the L but first things first is on the mid-grade and sure low-grade.
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Erik Stouffer
 
Haha, well I will give you the examples but come back maybe Monday. I'm so sorry but I have a photo seminar weekend that I'm doing. I would love to show you a 50mm 1/4s if I have one. I realized that Pentax is the way to go with the IS in camera. Sharp new lenses great old and high iso's. Alas like the 7d it's the money I don't have and it's 1600 just for the camera.. The 7d and a tripod sound mighty good right now..
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Erik Stouffer
 
I would love to show you a 50mm 1/4s if I have one. I realized that Pentax is the way to go with the IS in camera. Sharp new lenses great old and high iso's.
No many really fast primes there. It is kind of pointless. I would either go for a really fast prime, like 35/1.4, or a stabilized zoom, like the 17-55 IS.
 
Okay.. I say sadly.. Maybe, but I'll still dream of the day Canon releases medium grade glass with IS on it's primes.
Canon upgrades their mid grade primes every 20-30 years (no kidding, look at the 35mm/F2 20+ years with no update). So just wait and you may get what you want.
Nice, I'm thinking about Pentax and their old sharp primes, but I really don't like that they don't have a FF.
Pentax skipped FF and came out with a 40mp MF camera:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1003/10031002pentax645d.asp

Pentax has some fantastic older MF lenses. You can use them without an adapter on pentax DSLR or with an adpater ($25 ebay) on your Canon DSLR.
 
You’re right you have no choice but to use a fast prime when shooting fast moving objects. On the other hand you will also need to accept the thin DOF that comes with it whether you like it or not. Nothing is perfect but in general I feel a f2.8 lens with IS is more useful in low light than a f1.4 lens without.
I feel for you but I have discovered long ago primes (without IS) are good for thin DOF but not necessarily good for low light.
Try shooting a human/animal in low light and see what good IS does you on shorter lenses. If you shoot at speeds where IS would be beneficial (lets say below 1/30 on a kit lens) then you will get motion blur from your subjects motion, rather than your own shaking. So once you set the camera to speeds that would prevent motion blur for relatively static people (1/60-1/100), you are above the limit for handshake as well. It's a lot easier to get 1/80 with an f2 lens than it is with a f4-5.6 zoom. It gets even worse if you shoot low light sports, where 1/400 is the bare minimum. IS is basically worthless.
 
Answering your question - why doesn't it have I.S.:

It's about priorities. Most of the short prime lenses for Canon were designed in the film era. Canon's business approach was - I.S. in those lenses didn't make sense - there wasn't enough user requirement for it. Photographers using those primes would use flash or tripod in low light situations. Canon put image stabilization in their telephoto lenses because it was beneficial.

Now that DSLRs are here, Canon has put their money into placing I.S. in consumer zooms in addition to their telephotos - because new customers demand it. Adding I.S. to an existing lens requires a re-design of the lens as well as new manufacturing steps. So, it is again a matter of priority - of all the film era lenses, which ones does canon feel deserve a new model? The short primes appear to be down the list. AND, there's still the part about I.S. bumping up manufacturing costs. Clearly Canon feels enough people are still buying non-IS versions and lack of IS alone is not a reason to re-engineer these old lenses. This year for instance, canon has decided to re-engineer the 300mm 2.8 and 400mm 2.8 lenses - driven in no small part I'm sure by the exodus of users from canon to nikon over the 1dIII vs. D3s fiasco.

Expect a popular lens like the 100-400L to be redesigned next to again be competitive optically vs. what the competition has. The short primes in canon's camp are still optically good, so there's probably very little in the way of a business case to justify adding image stabilization.
 
Answering your question - why doesn't it have I.S.:

It's about priorities. Most of the short prime lenses for Canon were designed in the film era. Canon's business approach was - I.S. in those lenses didn't make sense - there wasn't enough user requirement for it. Photographers using those primes would use flash or tripod in low light situations. Canon put image stabilization in their telephoto lenses because it was beneficial.

Now that DSLRs are here, Canon has put their money into placing I.S. in consumer zooms in addition to their telephotos - because new customers demand it. Adding I.S. to an existing lens requires a re-design of the lens as well as new manufacturing steps. So, it is again a matter of priority - of all the film era lenses, which ones does canon feel deserve a new model? The short primes appear to be down the list. AND, there's still the part about I.S. bumping up manufacturing costs. Clearly Canon feels enough people are still buying non-IS versions and lack of IS alone is not a reason to re-engineer these old lenses. This year for instance, canon has decided to re-engineer the 300mm 2.8 and 400mm 2.8 lenses - driven in no small part I'm sure by the exodus of users from canon to nikon over the 1dIII vs. D3s fiasco.

Expect a popular lens like the 100-400L to be redesigned next to again be competitive optically vs. what the competition has. The short primes in canon's camp are still optically good, so there's probably very little in the way of a business case to justify adding image stabilization.
Canon needs to implement sensor IS -- it's that simple. They are heavily invested in the lens IS system, because they came up with that solution in the film era. But snubbing sensor IS simply because they feel it will take sales away from their IS lenses does not sit well with me.

There are those that argue that lens IS is superior to sensor IS. Well, given that none of my lenses have IS, nor are there even IS versions of any of my lenses, I don't see how lens IS is superior to sensor IS, which would give all my lenses IS at one small price.

Furthermore, there's no reason that lens IS cannot coexist with sensor IS -- best of both worlds (that's not to say that both IS systems can be run at the same time, however).

Canon, get over it. Implement sensor IS. And figure out how to make a sensor as good as Sony's sensor in the K5 and D7000 while you're at it.
 
Furthermore, there's no reason that lens IS cannot coexist with sensor IS -- best of both worlds (that's not to say that both IS systems can be run at the same time, however).

Canon, get over it. Implement sensor IS. And figure out how to make a sensor as good as Sony's sensor in the K5 and D7000 while you're at it.
Yeah...but if they did that, it might encourage me to finally upgrade my 20D and my 5D. And we don't want that, do we?

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Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
Canon, get over it. Implement sensor IS. And figure out how to make a sensor as good as Sony's sensor in the K5 and D7000 while you're at it.
Here's the business reality. You want the feature great. But there hasn't been a compelling reason yet for Canon to give it to you. There simply aren't enough people choosing Oly, Pentax, Sony over Canon/Nikon BECAUSE OF anti-shake to make it a business need. It's pretty evident by both Canon and Nikon NOT doing this that they believe the lost revenue is greater than the increase in customers they would gain. If one of those two blinks the other would have to follow.

BUT, Oly's DSLR is a burning platform so that's not a competitor anymore. Pentax still has a minute market share so that's not a threat. Only Sony is a real threat. And their marketing blunders over the last 2 years (creating all kinds of confusion regarding where there direction and commitment is) has halted their growth.

So, while there's no argument that in-body IS would benefit photographers there's no reason right now for canon to do it. You can wish all you want that canon did not go the in-lens route but they did. But make no mistake - they are businesses. They're only going to lose money when they have to. And the only thing that will cause them to have to is market pressure. Pentax and Oly aren't exerting enough market pressure. SO it's up to Sony.

But the reality seems to be - not enough people feel it's a make-or-break issue and are thus going elsewhere for their DSLR needs. It doesn't matter if Canon loses SOME customers. They have to lose MORE revenue in lost customers to make up for the cost in revenue brought in by IS (and the cost of R&D for implementing in their cameras). Until the loss is greater it's a bad business decision. I get you don't like that. But running a business isn't always about keeping EVERY customer happy.
 
Don't be afraid of a little noise. That can easily be remedied after the fact. I hate Photoshop's ability (or rather "inability" to be more correct) to deal with noise. I use a noise plug-in (Imagenomic Noiseware Pro -- but there are lots of choices).

While there are ways to deal with noise after-the-fact, there is not much you can do about a blurry shot due to camera-shake. Given the choice... pick the noise.
 
Just change system and have great in-body IS with all your primes.

(Canon, I want in-body IS NOW!)
 
I am pretty sure the IQ in these ultra fast lenses would suffer if you were to add the lens elements needed for IS.

Prime lenses from Canon (and other brands) are about ultimate image quality, and most people would not give that up to get IS.

Because of the large aperture IS is not as important as in slower lenses, or tele lenses either.
 
Canon, get over it. Implement sensor IS. And figure out how to make a sensor as good as Sony's sensor in the K5 and D7000 while you're at it.
Here's the business reality. You want the feature great. But there hasn't been a compelling reason yet for Canon to give it to you.
That's a weak argument, in my opinion. There was no "compelling reason" for updating the 300 / 2.8L IS, either.
There simply aren't enough people choosing Oly, Pentax, Sony over Canon/Nikon BECAUSE OF anti-shake to make it a business need.
Likewise, there aren't enough people choosing Nikon over Canon because of the performance of the 300 / 2.8L IS to "make it a business need".
It's pretty evident by both Canon and Nikon NOT doing this that they believe the lost revenue is greater than the increase in customers they would gain. If one of those two blinks the other would have to follow.
This, I agree with. Canon likely feels that if they implement sensor IS that Nikon will immediately follow, and all it will do is result in a loss of sales of IS lenses, with no net gain of new customers.

However, let's talk about that short interim period when Nikon plays catch-up. When Nikon came out with the D3, how many customers did Canon lose to Nikon who chose it over the 1D3? How much damage was done to Canon by the time they released the 1D4?

Of course, one could argue that this Nikon triumph was not the D3 itself, but the AF fiasco with the 1D3. Fair enough. But there is reason to think that Canon would, indeed, stand to gain.
BUT, Oly's DSLR is a burning platform so that's not a competitor anymore.
Which is a terrible shame. I was hoping they would grow and put more pressure on Canon to implement similar features and improve their consumer lenses.
Pentax still has a minute market share so that's not a threat. Only Sony is a real threat. And their marketing blunders over the last 2 years (creating all kinds of confusion regarding where there direction and commitment is) has halted their growth.
Sony's new sensor in the K5 and D7000 is a game changer -- I mean 14 stops of DR at base ISO?! Let's see what happens while that starts to sink in on the market.
So, while there's no argument that in-body IS would benefit photographers there's no reason right now for canon to do it. You can wish all you want that canon did not go the in-lens route but they did. But make no mistake - they are businesses. They're only going to lose money when they have to. And the only thing that will cause them to have to is market pressure. Pentax and Oly aren't exerting enough market pressure. SO it's up to Sony.
Go Sony!
But the reality seems to be - not enough people feel it's a make-or-break issue and are thus going elsewhere for their DSLR needs. It doesn't matter if Canon loses SOME customers. They have to lose MORE revenue in lost customers to make up for the cost in revenue brought in by IS (and the cost of R&D for implementing in their cameras). Until the loss is greater it's a bad business decision. I get you don't like that. But running a business isn't always about keeping EVERY customer happy.
If it were just me, sure, that would be one thing. But my opinion is far from a minority opinion. And, the thing is, if it's Nikon that goes with sensor IS first, which would be smart for them to do, it widens the gulf, sucking more customers from Canon.

Canon has been riding on it's "past glory", just like American car manufacturers did. Then the Japanese came along with better cars, and by the time that the American car manufacturers decided to react, it was too little too late.

The moral of the story is: don't turn off the engines just because you're cruising smoothly at 40,000 ft.
 
Yes, the EF 50mm F1.4 is a good enough all rounder.

But what have we got to lose if we all squeal yeah Canon, make us a nice fast IS prime? Nothing, right?

The 18-55 F2,8 IS for example, is good of course........but like with the Elmarit versus the Summilux signatures, "sharp sharp" is always the whole story when painting with light. Even the EF 28 F2 with its high CA and soft wide open works better sometimes.

Look how highly coveted the 35mm F1.4 L is? Why not a MkII with IS? Or, I don't know, what about say, a 40mm F1.4 IS? It would want to be really highly corrected for F1,4, that's the point, stealth. It would want nice manual focussing like L's have too. So it can happily prowl about the twilight zone, getting in close, in low range ISO/high IQ mode. I would say to Canon marketing that purely beany mercantile gap analysis logic, is not entirely sufficient. Moreover they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, to give Canon photographers a "legendary" optic, to show us what they do.

(By the way, for very lowlight the Sony Nex-5 in "Twilight mode" {in camera layering of muiltple exposures} with a Leica M lens is a revelation :)
 

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