Why is MS-Word 2016 so dumb?

[Mystery member]

A family member has been writing a book using the latest version of MS-Word. The various chapters etc. have been saved as separate files, as this helps with organisation and editing. The final stage prior to publication is usually a simple matter of combining the various components, adding page numbers (special numbering for the introduction) and compiling end-notes grouped by chapter.

Sadly, MS-Word makes this process extremely difficult and non-intuitive; for example, there is no longer an "Insert File..." command, and page numbering and formatting is far more complex than previously. For example, it appears to be impossible to specify that numbering should be suppressed on the first page. It seemed that the various required features were only available via the "Tell me what you want to do..." option. Ridiculous.

After about an hour of struggling with MS-Word 2016, I transferred the files to a legacy computer running Word 2002, and the job was done in a few minutes. Insert File... and Page Numbering/Format were immediately accessible as dialog boxes.

I know that the response to this whinge will be "You Need More Training", but it seems to me that the "advances" to the user interface since 2007 have been extremely counter-productive. I have certainly seen a few others experiencing similar difficulties.

Comments welcome.

 

[Glen Barrington]

I was using LibreOffice, which I still like. Word 2016 is not what I remember Word to be. Some things with Word 2016 are incredibly EASY, yet, other things, simple things, have changed so MUCH, that it is frustrating as all heck.

I'm using Word for my fiction writing, right now, but in all honesty, I think Google Docs is better for short article writing. I think of Docs as the modern Microsoft Works (remember THAT?).

I might not continue with Word 2016, though I still love Excel and Access, you still can't beat them!

 

[Mystery member]

I was using LibreOffice, which I still like. Word 2016 is not what I remember Word to be. Some things with Word 2016 are incredibly EASY, yet, other things, simple things, have changed so MUCH, that it is frustrating as all heck.

I'm using Word for my fiction writing, right now, but in all honesty, I think Google Docs is better for short article writing. I think of Docs as the modern Microsoft Works (remember THAT?).

I might not continue with Word 2016, though I still love Excel and Access, you still can't beat them!

I've been using all the Office applications for a long time and have been very happy with MS-Word, and I hadn't updated since 2002 (Office XP).

My point is that if I can wrangle Excel and Access at an an advanced level, I shouldn't have any hassles doing simple stuff with MS-Word 2016, particularly when the tools are immediately available in earlier versions.

 

[ADMint]

Not trying to be funny but yeah, if you're going to use Office 2016, it really would behoove you to learn it otherwise it just turns into a mass of frustration.

As for the Insert File command (Insert), it is very much there. It's just that it's a tab now with many options. Just like the other tabs such as Design, Layout, References, Mailings, Review, View, and Help.

There are many books and training tutorials out in the wild if you're willing to take the time to learn. You might also look into taking basic computer course on Office. There's also the help tab which also provides help videos.

If you're just going to rage against Microsoft for making changes, you're just going to be frustrated. And even if you go with a non-Microsoft product, you'll still have to learn their way of doing things.

Anyway as part of finishing up my bachelor's degree in Computer Information Systems, I wound up taking another basic computer course just to learn Office 2016. I had taken that course before when Office 2013 was out, but being I was able to take a free class as part of finishing my degree, I decided to take the basic class again just to learn Office 2016. And part of the learning process, especially tests, had me looking online for some stuff. So yeah, I telling you, there are videos out there. All you have to do is search.

Peace

 

[fotografffic]

I know that the response to this whinge will be "You Need More Training", but it seems to me that the "advances" to the user interface since 2007 have been extremely counter-productive. I have certainly seen a few others experiencing similar difficulties.

I agree with you!

My word processing needs are relatively simple. I hadn't used MS Word for some time though, when I did, I used it extensively. A few months ago Microsoft level two tech support installed a copy of Office 2016 on my computer after they helped me resolve several problems with the OS (think they felt sorry for me).

I was kind of shocked at how complex and non-intuitive Word had become.

I stopped using it and went back to using Open Office and Google Docs. I've never had the need to write something as complex as a book, so not sure if a program like Open Office offers that feature.

 

[fotografffic]

Not trying to be funny but yeah, if you're going to use Office 2016, it really would behoove you to learn it otherwise it just turns into a mass of frustration.

To some extent, in the context of this discussion, I agree with you. This goes for any program. For example, I've "downgraded" from Photoshop CS to PS Elements and for some parts there is quite a learning curve even though Elements is supposed to be easier than Photoshop. Still, the frequently used features are basically the same so you don't have to jump right into "book" learning. I did not find that the case with some of the more basic features I had used In Word.

 

[ADMint]

Still, the frequently used features are basically the same so you don't have to jump right into "book" learning.

However you "learned" to use the program you "learned" to use it. You learned to adapt to the changes.... however subtle.

Office 2016 vs. 2003 (there is no Office 2002) is a HUGE leap forward so anyone would be frustrated if they suddenly moved from 2003 to 2013. That's a 13 year span which has seen 4 iterations of Office. In this instance there's going to be a huge learning curve.

If one doesn't want to "jump right into "book" learning" so to speak, there's going to be a lot of frustration and very little learning.

And the difference between a subtle change vs. a major change is huge. Let's not downplay that.

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[Archer66]

Why not use Notepad for chapters ?

 

[tcg550]

It's not just Word. For various reasons I have to take over doing my business books. My 82 year old dad has been doing my books for 25 years. He started with a ledger and then a spread sheet and then Apple something or other and then Quickbooks when it first came out.

The last version we upgraded to was Pro 2009 because 2006 would no longer run on his computer. It took him a while to get used to all the changes. Mostly they moved reports and transactions to different tabs or menus and the interface was smaller to cram more unneeded stuff on the screen.

Since I was taking over I wanted to set it up from scratch in a way I could understand so I upgraded to Quickbooks Online. Easy for me but boy was it hard for my dad to help me find all the stuff I needed for quarterly reports, payroll (I do my own), payroll tax reports, etc...

But.. even he said boy this going to be a lot easier then the way he was doing it once I get all the bugs worked out.

Point is, change sucks big time but, at least in my case, it's going to make my life so much easier albeit expensive as Quickbooks Online is 35 bucks a month.

 

[Mystery member]

Still, the frequently used features are basically the same so you don't have to jump right into "book" learning.

However you "learned" to use the program you "learned" to use it. You learned to adapt to the changes.... however subtle.

Office 2016 vs. 2003 (there is no Office 2002) is a HUGE leap forward so anyone would be frustrated if they suddenly moved from 2003 to 2013. That's a 13 year span which has seen 4 iterations of Office. In this instance there's going to be a huge learning curve.

If one doesn't want to "jump right into "book" learning" so to speak, there's going to be a lot of frustration and very little learning.

Your response to my expressed frustration was entirely predictable (see my OP).

It is absurd to suggest that a updated version of such a well known program as MS-Word should require retraining when I have been using it for the best part of 30 years.

As it turned out, the operations that were causing difficulty with Word 2016 were completed in a matter of minutes using Word 2002, and I returned the file to Word 2016 for final preparation. Converting footnotes to endnotes and cleaning up the separators was more efficient with Word 2016, but it still wasn't a straightforward process.

Here's a screenshot for your information...

I believe that Word 2002 was a component of Office XP

 

[Mystery member]

Why not use Notepad for chapters?

The document concerned was a large book with many supplementary files, multiple chapters and approximately 700 endnotes. Rather too much for Notepad.

I've been associated with numerous such projects for 30 years or so, so I am hardly a beginner.

 

[tcg550]

Why not use Notepad for chapters?

The document concerned was a large book with many supplementary files, multiple chapters and approximately 700 endnotes. Rather too much for Notepad.

I've been associated with numerous such projects for 30 years or so, so I am hardly a beginner.

I'm not trying to be funny but I did a Google search for inserting page number on page 2 and it appears quite easy. Same for inserting a file. Unless I misunderstood what you were looking for.

In my Quickbooks story below there were a couple things I needed to do that could be easily done in in earlier versions. It took me and my dad a couple hours of Google searching to find what we needed but once we did it made sense.

When I switched from PS 6 to CS5 I almost gave up but me and Google kept plugging away and figured it all out.

 

[anisah]

Have to agree with a couple of the responses since I have used OpenOffice for many years now, and I also recommend LibreOffice as an alternative. Both are free, so why pay lots of money for a package when you can get something just as good for free?

This does not mean that my word processing needs are minimal, I am an experienced writer with about 40 books to my name. I would certainly not use MS Office for any work I would do now. My wife and I changed when she was asked to produce a Powerpoint Presenation for a group of doctors, as she is a highly qualified medic herself. What she wanted to produce could not be done in Powerpoint, but OpenOffice coped perfectly and then saved it to Powerpoint. OK, OpenOffice/LibreOffice may appear to lack a few of the bells and whistles of more recent versions of MS Office - but just how importatn are they?

Having been involved in software for a very long time I have found, although some may find the view somewhat cynical, that for many upgrades to software are more to do with continuing the income stream for the company rather than make things easier and more customer friendly. Many developments are about demosntrating just how skilled the programmer can be rather than producing software that people can use with ease, even if they do not have the qualifications to do so - which most users do not.

Should the end-user really need buy a training package to use software that they buy for personal use. or is this just another income stream for the company who can train those to deliver it? Maybe its time to get back to the "KISS" principle - ie "Keep it simple, stupid." The majority of people do not need all the bells and whistles for our day to day needs, maybe large companies and corporations do - but that is another story.

 

[CAcreeks]

Jeesh, Wry Cuda, you should just ask Clippy.

Seriously though, I found your post fascinating. One of my difficulties with Word through the years is that when they changed something, and I wanted to find out how to do it the new way, search results confused me because it was difficult to tell which version they were documenting.

Some changes (e.g. support for ultra long documents) were useful, but I think most of them were gratuitous. Especially the ribbon.

Still, the frequently used features are basically the same so you don't have to jump right into "book" learning.

However you "learned" to use the program you "learned" to use it. You learned to adapt to the changes.... however subtle.

Office 2016 vs. 2003 (there is no Office 2002) is a HUGE leap forward so anyone would be frustrated if they suddenly moved from 2003 to 2013. That's a 13 year span which has seen 4 iterations of Office. In this instance there's going to be a huge learning curve.

If one doesn't want to "jump right into "book" learning" so to speak, there's going to be a lot of frustration and very little learning.

Your response to my expressed frustration was entirely predictable (see my OP).

It is absurd to suggest that a updated version of such a well known program as MS-Word should require retraining when I have been using it for the best part of 30 years.

As it turned out, the operations that were causing difficulty with Word 2016 were completed in a matter of minutes using Word 2002, and I returned the file to Word 2016 for final preparation. Converting footnotes to endnotes and cleaning up the separators was more efficient with Word 2016, but it still wasn't a straightforward process.

Here's a screenshot for your information...

I believe that Word 2002 was a component of Office XP

 

[ADMint]

Your response to my expressed frustration was entirely predictable (see my OP).

I saw it, you said you would get such a response. However, it is true you need to learn the new changes. You know that yourself. Regardless, response was not meant to chide, but to be helpful.

It is absurd to suggest that a updated version of such a well known program as MS-Word should require retraining when I have been using it for the best part of 30 years.

Yet here you are complaining about missing features that are clearly there. Things change. Between Word 2002 (Office XP) and Word 2016 (Office 216) are 4 iterations of Office changes - 2003, 2007, 2010, 2013, and now 2016. The differences between Word 2002 and Word 2016 are massive now. I don't understand how you feel you don't need retraining. Sorry. And no company is going to remain static in a changing world.

As it turned out, the operations that were causing difficulty with Word 2016 were completed in a matter of minutes using Word 2002,

Not surprising, You're more familiar with 2002. Take a person who knows 2016, has never seen 2002, and they may be just as lost due to the vast differences.

Here's a screenshot for your information...

I believe that Word 2002 was a component of Office XP

Right, and I said there was no "Office" 2002. But you are correct, Word 2002 was part of Office XP. In fact all the apps in Office XP are listed as version 2002. And I should of remembered that since I had Office XP....

Showing Office XP upgrade disc.

And on the right side of the disc is says Version 2002. I guess you could in effect call Office XP, Office 2002

Anyway not everything I say is meant to be confrontational. Regardless, if you want to use Word 2016, you'll have to learn those changes since 2002.

BTW how I learned Windows as well as Office is through reading the Microsoft books. Also have books on Photoshop and Lightroom.

Peace

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[malch]

Office 2016 vs. 2003 (there is no Office 2002) is a HUGE leap forward so anyone would be frustrated if they suddenly moved from 2003 to 2013. That's a 13 year span which has seen 4 iterations of Office. In this instance there's going to be a huge learning curve.

What are folks doing with Word 2016 that involves such a huge learning curve?

Writing a letter or memo?

 

[ADMint]

Office 2016 vs. 2003 (there is no Office 2002) is a HUGE leap forward so anyone would be frustrated if they suddenly moved from 2003 to 2013. That's a 13 year span which has seen 4 iterations of Office. In this instance there's going to be a huge learning curve.

What are folks doing with Word 2016 that involves such a huge learning curve?

Writing a letter or memo?

You obviously didn't get what you quoted me as saying or else you wouldn't be asking that question.

Regardless, contrary to popular belief there are many who do more with Word than just Writing a letter or memo. And some jobs require more. And if you apply for a business job today, you'd better know more than just the basics of Word... you'd better know Office.

Does everyone need all the bells & whistles, no! But they'd better know at least the basics of "today's" product. That means learning the changes from yesteryear ;-)

Peace

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[tkbslc]

 

[Mystery member]

Jeesh, WryCuda, you should just ask Clippy.

Seriously though, I found your post fascinating. One of my difficulties with Word through the years is that when they changed something, and I wanted to find out how to do it the new way, search results confused me because it was difficult to tell which version they were documenting.

I was in the IT business from about 1987 to 2007 and for a lot of that time I was doing training and helping customers with MS-Office. To say that I was "familiar" with MS-Word would be an understatement. Most of my family are academics with a continuing need for advanced word processing, but I've found that earlier versions of MS-Office (e.g. 2002) were more than sufficient.

A side issue is that I used to be able to offer 'phone support for customers by talking them through the MS-Office menus which I could do, even when I wasn't sitting at a computer. With the latest versions, that is not an option because of the ever-changing ribbon.

Recently, for compatibility with colleagues, we've upgraded to Win10 and Office 365 (Word 2016), and day-to-day editing etc. has been quite smooth. It was only the final preparation and collation of material for a large book that caused difficulties.

Of course, I knew that the requisite controls/tools would be available "somewhere", but it was more than a little frustrating that useful options had been moved.

Moving options around for no good reason is something of a habit with Microsoft, and "Exhibit A" in this regard is Win8 and Win10. The UI for Win8 was a complete disaster (yes, I was criticised for this observation a few years ago), and while Win10 fixed a lot of the problems, controls and features are still sprinkled around in a fairly random fashion. For example, many Control Panel items need to be searched for rather than being immediately available.

 

[CAcreeks]

I was in the IT business from about 1987 to 2007 and for a lot of that time I was doing training and helping customers with MS-Office. To say that I was "familiar" with MS-Word would be an understatement. Most of my family are academics with a continuing need for advanced word processing, but I've found that earlier versions of MS-Office (e.g. 2002) were more than sufficient.

A side issue is that I used to be able to offer 'phone support for customers by talking them through the MS-Office menus which I could do, even when I wasn't sitting at a computer. With the latest versions, that is not an option because of the ever-changing ribbon.

Recently, for compatibility with colleagues, we've upgraded to Win10 and Office 365 (Word 2016), and day-to-day editing etc. has been quite smooth. It was only the final preparation and collation of material for a large book that caused difficulties.

Of course, I knew that the requisite controls/tools would be available "somewhere", but it was more than a little frustrating that useful options had been moved.

Moving options around for no good reason is something of a habit with Microsoft, and "Exhibit A" in this regard is Win8 and Win10. The UI for Win8 was a complete disaster (yes, I was criticised for this observation a few years ago), and while Win10 fixed a lot of the problems, controls and features are still sprinkled around in a fairly random fashion. For example, many Control Panel items need to be searched for rather than being immediately available.

Yes, what you say above is generally true. Academics I know use TeX, which might be more popular in STEM fields.

Is Word 2016 still really bad at formatting tables? I haven't tried it yet, because most of my tables are done with specialized software. Previous versions of Word were horrible. It was impossible to control row height, and column width was somewhat unpredictable. Tables would start to the left of the text column, and not be aligned to the right side. Copying and pasting table cells was, well... an adventure. I'm not sure why MSFT didn't spend time improving this. Or maybe they did for 2016?

It's a pathetic situation when the table formatter in Thunderbird email client is better than a relatively expensive piece of software.