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What's all the noise about noise?

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mach22

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Well, I'm new here, and new to dSLR. I just got a E-500 two lens kit at the end of February (upgraded from a Canon Powershot G2) and I've been having a blast ever since. This camera has completely revitalized my interest in photography; I just can't get enough!

Anyway, with all the hubub about noise, I thought I'd share this image I took today at the San Diego Zoo: E-500 with the 40-150mm lens at ISO 1600. I'm quite happy with how nice it came out; I was worried that at this ISO, it would be "unusable".



I did run the photo through Noise Ninja and adjust the levels, saturation, and sharpness in Photoshop, but I think this is quite nice image which shows that good high ISO shots with the E-500 are acheivable.

Any thoughts?
 
.. after running the image through a noise-reduction program.

Sure, you can get decent results after PPing the image but the 'noise' is about the fact that you HAVE to PP the images.
 
So? I thought that PP and dSLR went hand in hand. At any rate, here is the original image, just reduced in size:



I guess my point is that before I bought the E-500, I was concerned that ISOs above 400 would yield terrible results and be unusable, but I have found this to not be the case.
 
SHQ JPEG. I've experimented a bit with RAW, but it's frustrating how long my poor old laptop takes to download the images (using a PC-Card Compact Flash Reader that seems to max out at 1 mb/sec) and then how long it takes to sort through them in Olympus Master.

I'm thinking that perhaps when shooting with RAW the best thing to do is to sort through the photos while they're still on the camera, and then transfer them to my computer. I guess it's either that, get a quicker computer, or get a good book to read while my computer crunches away...
 
I've been shooting with my E300 since last september, mostly in ISO200, now that I have the 14-54mm and the 50mm I shoot in !SO100.

That's what I did for many years while shooting with 35mm camera,and very seldom I shot in 400ASA because of the grain, I don't think I saw too many rolls of ASA800 or ASA1600, but now in the Digital world, in this forum, keep hearing those speeds mentioned.

Even the shots I take in ISO100 have to be processed in Photoshop, and that is regardless of camera brand you are shooting with...

I think the noise complaints are of shots taken indoors, poor lighting and with movement at ISO1600
I shot these at ISO1600 w/my E300...





Carlos
 
I get the same results when I use NeatImage and then reduce the image to a web sized photo.

However, the noise is still noticeable at at larger image sizes.

I have a photo which I use as a background on my computer at work which has a 1024 x 768 monitor (yes my employer is too cheap to provide me with a better monitor), which was taken at ISO 1600, and even though it was NeatImaged, I still see red and green noise flecks in it when I look carefully. Perhaps I didn't use NeatImage at a strong enough setting?

When using ISO 1600 you have to be careful to get good exposure because 1600 is at the very end of the camera's abilities and underexposure can result in an image that's impossible to fix. ISO 800 is certainly a safer setting.
 
Thanks for the info.

Do you have ISO Boost set to "On" or "On + NF"?

Have you done any tests to see if there's a difference?

Rennie

--
Olympus E-500, Sony F717, Sony P100, Canon S820
http://renniep.smugmug.com
 
Shoot something indoors without flash, that's where the noise issue becomes an issue. And, as other posters have already noted, pp is pretty much a given.

This is the type of photo where noise is problematic. Indoors, out of reach of a flash (I was at the back of the auditorium), cr@ppy lighting.



Model: E-300
Aperture: f/3.2
ISO: 1600
Focal Length: 147mm
Exposure Time: 0.0166s (1/60)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Exposure Program: Aperture priority
Exposure Bias: -0.3
White Balance: manual
Contrast: 0
Sharpness: +1

Is that shot grainier than I would like? Yes. Is it 'unuseable' as the reviews would tell you? Not to me. I can't afford a 5D and to me that shot is priceless. (Brag alert.) My son was recieving his academic letter for his 3.9 gpa in high school.

And another example, this one at iso 800. Same kid, performing a bassoon solo for a judge where he was scored on his performance. No flash allowed. Fortunately, the light was bright enough to bump down to iso 800. Again, a shot of value to no one but me.



Model: E-300
Aperture: f/3.2
ISO: 800
Focal Length: 35mm
Exposure Time: 0.008s (1/125)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Exposure Program: Aperture priority
Exposure Bias: 0
White Balance: manual
Sharpness: +1

What the reviewers fail to realize is that there are an entire group of consumers out there that want good image quality but aren't pros and don't plan to be.
--
Theresa Kelly
http://theresak.smugmug.com/
Oly E-3OO + some other stuff

Constructive criticism always welcome!

 
Theresa K said:
Is that shot grainier than I would like? Yes. Is it 'unuseable'
as the reviews would tell you? Not to me. I can't afford a 5D and
to me that shot is priceless. (Brag alert.) My son was recieving
his academic letter for his 3.9 gpa in high school.
Click to expand...
Definately usable Theresa! You full kudos to your son - 3.9gpa??? Wow!
Theresa K said:
And another example, this one at iso 800. Same kid, performing a
bassoon solo for a judge where he was scored on his performance.
No flash allowed. Fortunately, the light was bright enough to bump
down to iso 800. Again, a shot of value to no one but me.
Click to expand...
Great shot, and to my untrained eye, noise isn't an issue.
Theresa K said:
What the reviewers fail to realize is that there are an entire
group of consumers out there that want good image quality but
aren't pros and don't plan to be.
Click to expand...
Very good point. It's pretty easy to get drawn into all of the measurebator stuff though - at the expense of getting out there and taking pictures lol!

Cheers,

Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n

 
I get incredibly bored with all the cr*p about noise. I thought the idea of a camera was to get images, not to sit and whinge about its features.

For convenience on our last trip I bought the pocket sized Ricoh Caplio R3 which my wife used with great success for 2,400 shots (I took 1,500 on my E-300). The R3 was slammed and is still slammed for noise (even at its slowest 64 ISO), but it enables you to get a picture with its top ISO of 800 and its anti-shake moving CCD and its lens range of 28-200mm equivalent.

The pictures we get are good and all mixed up with the E-300 shots in a slide show and on 17" 1024x768 and 20" 1152x864 screens there is generally no way to tell which shot came from which camera. Prints at 4"x6" size for the trip album are just fine.

Neat Image does a nice job on tidy up in batch mode so what's the problem? OK, pixel-peepers do have a problem, but they should all be taken out and shot (with a camera of course).

The Ricoh R3 is so good at getting the picture (fast turn on, fast zoom, fast focus, and generally super quick and easy to use) that I think I will go buy the R4 (R3 was superceded after 6 months life) as an easy to carry everywhere camera. Then we both can travel light.

In fact for our next major trip I am really tempted to take only the R3 and R4, one charger and a big bunch of SD cards. That whole outfit weighs one zillionth of the DSLR outfit and I won't miss the bulk and weight and probably will get more shots, and of course more spontaneous shots. You are so inconspicuous with that tiny camera.

Here's a Ricoh R3 example. Warning 1.7 megs of jpeg, unretouched in any way. We set cameras to Sharpness = Soft and Saturation/Contrast as low. What's wrong with this for capturing the moment? Is noise a problem here? We were sitting at breakfast across the road so Lyn jumped up and grabbed this shot. Bangkok, in Soi Kasemsan 1 off Thanon Rama 1.

Lens = 33mm equivalent to 200mm and anti-shake on, handheld at 1/17 sec. with 64 ISO. Slight subject blur of course at 1/17 sec with the fruit seller, but my wife got the moment. It all happened too fast to set the ISO to something faster. Click on link to open it.
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/R0010238.JPG

Regards............. Guy
 
Carloskbco said:
I've been shooting with my E300 since last september, mostly in
ISO200, now that I have the 14-54mm and the 50mm I shoot in !SO100.

That's what I did for many years while shooting with 35mm
camera,and very seldom I shot in 400ASA because of the grain, I
don't think I saw too many rolls of ASA800 or ASA1600, but now in
the Digital world, in this forum, keep hearing those speeds
mentioned.
Click to expand...
Just as a counterpoint, here in grey britain I haven't used 100ISO film in at least 5 years. I would normally carry 200 and 800, and I've used 1600 on several occasions. I shoot mainly outdoors. Take pity on those with cloudy skies :)
 
Hi - very cute and lovely shot!!

I take alot of shots of Australian wildlife and thats a fantastic Koala! (though I use the D70 as my DSLR, Oylmpus P&S).

As someone who's been around these forums for awhile now, my advice would be to take some of the "discussions" around here with a "pinch of salt". It's basically about photography and taking pictures, though sometimes people just seem to focus on digital noise and other tech issues. Don't worry about it....

Alot of this stuff is a matter of opinion and sometimes you just have to go with what you think is the best!

Have fun with your new camera!

Cheers,

Jason
 
EMale said:
.. after running the image through a noise-reduction program.

Sure, you can get decent results after PPing the image but the
'noise' is about the fact that you HAVE to PP the images.
Click to expand...
And the others do it in the camera...
--

Stacey
 
Theresa, Ricoh seems a non-starter in USA except for office products, but they do have some good stuff to offer. They may start camera selling again soon it's rumoured.

The Caplio R3 (model is now R4) was bought by me as a backup to carry in the E-300 bag. It was promptly permanently borrowed by my wife, so I need to try again and maybe get the R4 this time.

The combination of small size (true pocket camera), 28-200mm equivalent lens, ISO 64 - 800, moving CCD anti-shake, super-duper close macro, and very fast operation makes this an ideal carry anywhere at anytime camera. R3 = 5 megapixels, R4 = 6 megapixels. About 500 shots on a 1 gig SD card, over 300 shots per battery charge, need I say more?

Early criticisms were lots of noise but I don't see it as a problem at all, the 4"x6" prints are great (the intended market I guess), and Neat Image does work well.

Regards............. Guy
 
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