What makes a mirrorless camera focus and track fast?

[EcoPics]

Let me first of state, Im not an expert and Im genuinely curious.

But the things I have noticed.

Sony leap frogged everyone with hybrid cdaf pdaf

Fuji have just caught up

And Oly M43 produce a beautiful new omd m10iii but NO pdaf or hybrid focus system. And still 16Mp.

 

[osv]

Let me first of state, Im not an expert and Im genuinely curious.

But the things I have noticed.

Sony leap frogged everyone with hybrid cdaf pdaf

which they keep improving, with every new model of camera.

Fuji have just caught up

there are different levels and capabilities of hybrid focusing, they are not all equal... sony eyeaf, for instance.

And Oly M43 produce a beautiful new omd m10iii but NO pdaf or hybrid focus system. And still 16Mp.

it's cdaf-only because it's a $550 body, they are trying to segment their offerings.

--
dan

 

[Labe]

well light comes to mind lol. Remember me telling you how Panasonics DFD contrast focus was faster on my G80 than my A6000`s system in low light but sony was faster and locked on better in good light.

Olympus have an hybrid system as well now but only in the em1 series

 

[Marabak]

Out of a perverse sense of interest, how does a mirrorless camera utilise PDAF? I thought a mirror was needed to do that and I'm interested in how they have got around that problem.

 

[Labe]

Out of a perverse sense of interest, how does a mirrorless camera utilise PDAF? I thought a mirror was needed to do that and I'm interested in how they have got around that problem.

--
My Flickr - https://www.flickr.com/photos/139055478@N06/

They have started including PDAF sensors within the cameras image sensor itself .

 

[EcoPics]

IMO the focus system shouldnt be watch differentiates systems. Otherwise you go from great, to, plodding along. the em10 should have the same sensor as the em1 but not ibis for example. focussing is mandatory imo, sure make it better for some cameras but have a base level of hybrid focus in all cameras.

 

[Labe]

IMO the focus system shouldnt be watch differentiates systems. Otherwise you go from great, to, plodding along. the em10 should have the same sensor as the em1 but not ibis for example. focussing is mandatory imo, sure make it better for some cameras but have a base level of hybrid focus in all cameras.

well I`ve owned and used em10mk1 mk2 and its never stopped me getting the shot I wanted . I`ve shot weddings , bands and wildlife just fine . But coming from a film back ground and learning how to capture a moment when all you have is full manual focus and exposure any af help makes life easier .

I`ve even covered cycle racing with nothing more than a fz1000 without issues .

Instead of stressing and over analysing using web stats , grab your kit and get out there and learn to use it . These modern cameras are amazing .

 

[Bob A L]

If you want to see fast try a dslr.

 

[Donald B]

If you want to see fast try a dslr.

most mirror less are faster ,only the top-end canon and Nikon take the 2 top positions from a testing site .

Don

 

[Michael Fryd]

Out of a perverse sense of interest, how does a mirrorless camera utilise PDAF? I thought a mirror was needed to do that and I'm interested in how they have got around that problem.

The mirror allows you to direct the light at a purpose built phase detect autofocus sensor. They are now making sensors that are designed both to capture the image, and to act as phase detect sensors.

Canon does this with something they call "dual pixel autofocus". Each pixel on the sensor separately captures light from the right and light from the left. When the object is in focus, these are the same, When the object is out of focus, they differ. By looking at the phase difference between the "left" light and the "right" light, the camera computes how far out of focus, and in which direction. The camera can then instruct the lens to focus in the correct direction.

You can find a better description of this at https://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app...velopers_Interview_nonfacing_pressquality.pdf

My understanding is that the dual pixel autofocus is good, but that purpose built autofocus sensors are better.

 

[EcoPics]

Instead of stressing and over analysing using web stats , grab your kit and get out there and learn to use it . These modern cameras are amazing .

Not another guy who thinks hes the only one who shot film and did his own lightroom back in the day ;-p Jokes Labe

How often would you use the omd em10 to focus in nothing but moon light on a frog in a pond?

I think Sony and Fuji have it right not separating models by focus type, but by features, like IBIS. Hybrid focus should be mandatory imo and things like IBIS are GENUINE selling points for models. I just think Oly are all over the shop. I heard Oly 5 mk3 is going back to 8MP and 1 single contrast focus point ;-p. Jokes aside I just feel the omd 10 mk3 is brilliant but they are making up for the lack of sensor with features they should be saving to upsell other models..

As for the DSLR comment, was DSLR mentioned in the title? No ,... sherlock to captain obvious for that statement.

 

[DVT80111]

More transistors, faster electronics, better algorithm.

The cycle keeps feeding itself over and over again until we jump into something new like Quantum computing, but that will be a while..

 

[EcoPics]

Ok Ill ask it this way.

Why are M43 so reluctant to upgrade their aging sensors to include hybrid focus to increase both speed, focus tracking and reduce focus drift?

 

[greg 123]

Let me first of state, Im not an expert and Im genuinely curious.

But the things I have noticed.

Sony leap frogged everyone with hybrid cdaf pdaf

Fuji have just caught up

And Oly M43 produce a beautiful new omd m10iii but NO pdaf or hybrid focus system. And still 16Mp.

Olympus put cdaf/pdaf on their EM1ii. It's hard to fault Olympus for not putting that on their entry level camera.

 

[EcoPics]

Let me first of state, Im not an expert and Im genuinely curious.

But the things I have noticed.

Sony leap frogged everyone with hybrid cdaf pdaf

Fuji have just caught up

And Oly M43 produce a beautiful new omd m10iii but NO pdaf or hybrid focus system. And still 16Mp.

Olympus put cdaf/pdaf on their EM1ii. It's hard to fault Olympus for not putting that on their entry level camera.

I disagree 110%, it should be on ALL their cameras, and like most other companies its things like IBIS that make the EM1 selling features.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

If you want to see fast try a dslr.

most mirror less are faster ,only the top-end canon and Nikon take the 2 top positions from a testing site .

Don

--
Olympus EM5, EM5mk2 my toys.
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1

There is also less "shutter-lag" in MirrorLess, (because it was always "mirror" lag anyway).

 

[EcoPics]

So the OMD e-m10 mk3 is as fast at auto focus in moonlight as the Sony a6500?

Because I love the new mk3 except for its AF system.

Ive tried to like m43, last year it was gx85, and every time I would get poor focus lock and focus tracking or focus drift or it would take a lot longer to find focus than my dslr or an a6000.

Tell me cdaf is as fast as hybrid cdaf and pdaf in the m10 mk3, no show me, and Ill buy want one. I can live without the IBIS. Fast auto focus is far more important to build a camera upon.

 

[Labe]

Instead of stressing and over analysing using web stats , grab your kit and get out there and learn to use it . These modern cameras are amazing .

Not another guy who thinks hes the only one who shot film and did his own lightroom back in the day ;-p Jokes Labe

nope never did my own lightroom , I was at the mercy of the labs lol.

How often would you use the omd em10 to focus in nothing but moon light on a frog in a pond?

I wouldn`t and I don't think many other people would either so why should manufacturers fit more expensive sensors in base models just for that 1%?

I think Sony and Fuji have it right not separating models by focus type, but by features, like IBIS. Hybrid focus should be mandatory imo and things like IBIS are GENUINE selling points for models. I just think Oly are all over the shop. I heard Oly 5 mk3 is going back to 8MP and 1 single contrast focus point ;-p. Jokes aside I just feel the omd 10 mk3 is brilliant but they are making up for the lack of sensor with features they should be saving to upsell other models..

like I already said manufacturers make cost judgements and cater to the larger group of users . If you don`t like what they offer just move on ...

As for the DSLR comment, was DSLR mentioned in the title? No ,... sherlock to captain obvious for that statement.

That was not me so don't start getting smart yourself .

 

[Labe]

So the OMD e-m10 mk3 is as fast at auto focus in moonlight as the Sony a6500?

so buy the a6500 seening as your always banging on about how great sony are (yes I`m a sony user )

Because I love the new mk3 except for its AF system.

But the mk3 is a budget model . If you want pro features buy pro kit like the em1 mk2.

Ive tried to like m43, last year it was gx85, and every time I would get poor focus lock and focus tracking or focus drift or it would take a lot longer to find focus than my dslr or an a6000.

Tell me cdaf is as fast as hybrid cdaf and pdaf in the m10 mk3, no show me, and Ill buy want one. I can live without the IBIS. Fast auto focus is far more important to build a camera upon.

Hmm lets see em10 mk3 £629 new and A6500 £1279 so like I said it may be a cost issue.

 

[EcoPics]

nope never did my own lightroom , I was at the mercy of the labs lol.

As for the DSLR comment, was DSLR mentioned in the title? No ,... sherlock to captain obvious for that statement.

That was not me so don't start getting smart yourself .

Haha that last one wasnt directed at you, was an earlier comment made, DSLRs clearly are not included in this for a reason and im sure the poster new that.

As for your lab work, might have been me doing your lab work and part of the magic of your best film pics ;-p.